What can ancient Rome teach us about the migrant crisis? Mary Beard - Newsnight

Who has the right to be a citizen of this country? As refugees and migrants continue to try to gain entry to Europe, the question has become more poignant. But we're not the first people in history to have difficulties working out this issue. Citizenship, migration and even terrorism were all questions that troubled the Ancient Romans - and they came up with very different answers. In her new book, SPQR, the classicist Mary Beard has been looking at some of these topics. * SUBSCRIBE to get our latest videos bbc.in/1iouM30 *

[@NieLL1]

This woman seems to make an extraordinary effort to utter every single word. Enthralling.

[@Draculady123]

I think there is another aspect of it that is not mentioned in the video. Romans, though not particularly racially biased, were extremely culturally biased. There is a reason we say, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". The idea of accepting different gods, traditions, and ways of life was unknown to Romans. They demanded complete assimilation from their citizens, and those who did not were not treated the same as those who did. I think a major issue we are having in our modern dealings with immigration is this idea of allowing possibly hostile people into our countries and also allowing them their personal cultures and ideals at the same time. It makes us wonder if they truly can be Americans, Britains, ect and still live as Muslims, Jews, Hispanics and the like. It's a conflict of interests that is at the heart of the discussion.

[@willmc4403]

I realise this comment is 4 years old, but it's showing up at the top of this comment section, which seems potentially problematic. To say that "The idea of accepting different gods, traditions, and ways of life was unknown to the Romans" is not reasonable. Much of this video was filmed at the famous Roman baths at Bath, which were linked to the Goddess Sulis Minerva. Sulis Minerva is the Roman iteration of the local, Celtic god, Sulis. It seems that often, the Romans amalgamated other gods into their existing theological framework. Granted, this did prove tricky when they came up against monotheistic religions (most famously Judaism and Christianity), and granted this is about amalgamation rather than "agreeing to disagree" as we try to do now, but still... On another note, considering literally the First Amendment of the US constitution aims to guarantee religious freedom, it seems absurd that you find issue with someone living as both an American and a Muslim or Jew. Top of the list of things the Founding Fathers wanted to make clear was that theirs was not to be a theocratic nation!

[@glennsunman9859]

“In God we trust”

[@hdaviator9181]

But Rome was destroyed...

[@patriciodasilva7902]

Well, It lasted 700 years, so there's that.

[@UWPower]

It wasn’t destroyed by immigration. What a short sighted, uneducated response.

[@thenoblepoptart]

All things must perish from the earth. It was destroyed because of diseases that killed as much as 50% of the population of some cities, combined with the constant debasement of currencies. Immigration is what saved the empire for a few more centuries by bolstering the working population and the army.

[@philipdurling1964]

I could listen to this good lady for ever. Her voice is so calming.

[@Anxian]

I seem to remember the Roman Emperor, in his suicidal liberalism, allowed the barbarians to settle around Rome, then they rose up and killed or enslaved the Romans...

[@howtovoxel]

+Anx- ian Do not ruin a good leftist propaganda piece with facts!

[@joeblo5799]

+Anx- ian that's not what happened, man they really are making people just dumb. roman empire was one of the most brutal system not to mention if you're happy with today's word then thank that same empire because it never went extinct it just moved north to switzerland and then the habsburg empire along with the british empire back to the vatican london city and washington d.c.

[@mrpatriot8279]

joe blo The Roman Empire still existed in the east and Constantinople was the new Rome till 1453.

[@Laughing_Chinaman]

except that the non-roman romans saw themselves as roman. european muslims see themselves as muslims first and maybe not even european at all let alone second

[@ClarksonFisherIII]

PitchBlackFox I don't believe this. And shouldn't your claim be based on a Roman equivalent? I wouldn't call Europe an Empire.

[@Geedi1977]

Laughing Chinaman This is your bigoted view and not a reality.

[@aizac91]

@Trz they’re European group ethnic people that’s all that matters, why does everyone have to have the same exact culture to say they’re the same ethnic group? I mean Saudi and Jordanians have different culture, yet they are Arabs?? What’s the different?

[@aizac91]

@@Geedi1977 uhh, I think you jumped the gun here. I’m a Malaysian Muslim and I see those Pakistani Muslims in Britain does not give back to the country nor do they actually respect Britain culture. I honestly think some of them should be deported, and I’m saying this an an opinionated Muslim on the matters

[@danesovic7585]

Does Mary realize that Rome went really fast downhill after emperor Caracalla extended citizenship to everybody throughout the empire?

[@aizac91]

As a Muslim that loves European history, I can tell you she does but she’s the narrative political baby of the US. Noticed how she says in one of here “Informative” videos about how Rome inhabitants demographic would reflect nyc or la modern time. She’s clearly pushing the insane liberal western balaies into society and history.

[@BringDHouseDown]

" didn't get big because they had better equipment and tactics but..." I present to you, our "experts" people, take from that what you may *looks yonder at scrutinizing legionnaire selection and drills of unit cohesion, marching, fighting tactics, formations, more marching, heavy equipment twice the weight of their actual combat equipment, and training to fulfill any role from heavy infantry to archers to skirmishers with slings(every legionnaire had a sling...and damn good at using it) which lasted 2 years just like the navy seals of the us military* ...essentially hundreds of thousands of special forces comprised their armies which led to the best casualties to kills ratio on record.

[@willmc4403]

To be fair, early Roman tactics were pretty much copied directly from the Greeks, as was their equipment. Not sure about the casualties to kills ratio (honestly, how on earth could you even get a vaguely reasonable estimate of that?), but certainly when you look back, the Romans had their fair share of defeats (most obviously Carrhae, Cannae...)

[@138boris]

Just because someone has citizenship, doesnt mean they deserve it.

[@sammycw2000]

Yes, King Alaric was a poor refugee.

[@BringDHouseDown]

not even when Rome was an Empire that covered Africa and the Middle East, did it allow all those foreign people to move into Europe.

[@georgefloydsfake20dollarbi28]

Lol nice pfp

[@aizac91]

As a Muslim, that’s exactly it. People in the ancient times cared heavily on customs, identity, culture, ethics, ethnics. The fact that this Mary says Rome at that time was like nyc or la in modern times in terms of demography shows she’s pushing the neo-age insane liberal west ideologies into society and history. It is despicable! You see when you do this, the recent Cleopatra fiasco with Netflix is what will happened next; first they tell you oral lies about history then they present it to you in motion pictures to rewrite history.

[@ValloYT]

Citizen were free people providing for themselves...

[@Spiral.Dynamics]

No they were not. Rome had the bread dole.

[@SI-cd7xs]

Before 212, only inhabitants of Italia held full Roman citizenship. Colonies of Italians established in other provinces, Italians (or their descendants) and a few local nobles (such as kings of client countries) also held full citizenship. Then Caracalla the North African gave everyone citizenship and the civilisation collapsed. Just like the west now.

[@pelayomartel5148]

The Romans succeeded while they still enforced Romanization - the reason why people speak Latin-descended languages in so many countries. But they are also a warning too us - they extended citizenship too far, to people who didn't care, and they lost everything.

[@jakewhoskate]

Their success was directly attributed to being diverse and multiracial.

[@redskyatnight123]

​@@jakewhoskateyou keep coping bet you wouldn't have a migrant in your house .

[@Graham6762]

Well the criminals and outlaws that first founded Rome didn't show up and tell the leader of the village what to do. They didn't show up and demand money.

[@psyclops8439]

Except they literally did when the plebians demanded more power...

[@astralax]

Everyone in this comments thread thinks they're a better classicist than Mary Beard.

[@e.c.4875]

lol, ( says the trump profile picture guy )

[@PatricioVUnter]

Jack M having being a PhD in classics does not make her immune to mistake, but does give her authority over the subject, and gives her interpretation of this subject much more credible than the judgement of a person who sympathises with Donald Trump, a man who is a Megalomaniac and pathological liar.

[@PatricioVUnter]

Jack M oh God... Why in hell wie ulduar you say that it's just liberals that give value to academic accomplishment? There are lots and lots of conservative academics. And like it or not, her opinion on this subject is much more valuable than yours or mine, not because of some letters after her name, but because she has studied this thoroughly and has a greater understanding of all its aspects. People like you call everything that doesn't agree with their thinking 'fake news' even though it's supported by reasoning and evidence, and they accept ridiculous interpretations of reality or out right lies and try to spread them.

[@PatricioVUnter]

Jack M why are you so exaggerated? No one elevates her in any way to godhood... And the thing is that she isn't doing any absurd claims, she is making an educated commentary, that's what makes her commentary more valuable than yours, hers is educated, yours is just an angry claim. And it's really funny how you accept ideologically charged and actually absurd lies from people like Donald Trump but you are fast to say the opinion of a PhD is just stupid...

[@mattcooper9499]

She must be believed because the government propaganda arm paid her to say some drivel (sarc).

[@cameronaustin7734]

"I doubt the Romans would have cared very much about your sporting fixture" *Laughs in Nika riots*

[@garypowell4565]

That cultures and religions don't mix.

[@TelfLad]

Look up what Cassius Dio said about the edict of Caracalla.

[@firingallcylinders2949]

What did he say?

[@SI-cd7xs]

Before 212, only inhabitants of Italia held full Roman citizenship. Colonies of Italians established in other provinces, Italians (or their descendants) and a few local nobles (such as kings of client countries) also held full citizenship. Then Caracalla the North African gave everyone citizenship and the civilisation collapsed. Just like the west now.

[@dvrmte]

What a propaganda piece. Rome allowed the Visigoths to settle across the Danube only to have them rebel and sack Rome. And Beard acts so knowledgeable, what a dunce.

[@ignacejespers8201]

note that it would have gone pretty well if the local governor of Moesia and Thracia didn't force the Visigoths to sell their own children for food (dog's meat) and didn't took the Visigoth elites hostage and later assassinated them. Is it then surprising that the Visigoths took up arms?

[@Madanth0ny]

dvrmte is their a book on this ? Sounds interesting

[@cassiesmith6468]

A dunce? And your PhD is in?

[@cou2707]

25 years in the British army and you can live here. Problem solved.

[@hisaoibarazaki6833]

I was really disapointed by the book of mary beard. That's a shame to use history and academic titles to share political ideas. She describe Rome as a protean city but why there is only european white people on roman paintings ?

[@willmc4403]

If you have a look at the paintings from Pompeii, there is significant variation in skin colour - Theseus and the Minotaur for example, Theseus's skin is notably darker than that of the other people in the image.

[@SI-cd7xs]

@@willmc4403 southern italians can be dark.

[@willmc4403]

@@SI-cd7xs almost as though this category of "european white people" is not really very realistic...

[@slightseconds]

I can not understand why you would be disrespectful to someone who knows all there is to know about the rise and fall of the Roman Empire.

[@cnacma]

A A faced criticism by who? Other academics? If so id like to see a source. I get the feeling the only criticism is from far right knob heads who couldn’t care less about what happened in history.

[@karrihunter7320]

She does not know all there is to know. Certainly not. But what she does, she ensures it does confirm with her Marxist principles.

[@cassiesmith6468]

@@karrihunter7320 she's not a Marxist.

[@karrihunter7320]

Cassie Smith 👍

[@accessiblewebsolutions9453]

Rome was never racially diverse.

[@lf1496]

Accessible Web Solutions I live in Rome idiot and see that ancient diversity reflected on the faces of her people today. My husband is 100% Italian on both sides, a Roman Sicilian. His DNA is average for a Southern Italian. He has both black and Berber African as well as Middle Eastern DNA added to his complicated Italian mix. There are many Sicilians who have sickle cell anemia, a black African blood disorder. The Moors were in Southern Italy for 800 years, fact. The Moors were Berber North Africans and Islamized black West Africans from Mali, Senegal, Ghana, Nigeria etc...My husband has Senegalese and Mali DNA, what a coincidence! I see Italians with kinky curly Afros and dreds that 100% Italian all around Italy. To be Italian means you are a mixed in most cases. Ancient Rome was a melting pot of people and religions. They worshipped the Egyptian goddess Isis as well as having colonies in Africa. These Africans who were Egyptians and Nubians came to Rome to live and procreate. They found the skeletal remains of black Africans and mixed raced Afro Italian in the ruins of ancient Pompeii. They also found a black ancient Roman noble woman in Britain(the Roman colony at the time). You are uneducated an most likely a dumb American who doesn't have a Passport or a real education!

[@lf1496]

@Thomas you are desperately trying to reinforce an idea of "racial purity" that is clearly a remnant of 19th century racial junk science. I don't need 20 paragraphs of an insecure diatribe to make my point. I live in Italy and have for 11 years. My husband is 100 percent Sicilian Roman. He did his DNA and is 14 percent West African Mali, Senegal and 11 percent North African Berber. Those West African kingdoms were a part of the Moorish conquest of Southern Europe. My brother in law is a doctor in Sicily. He works with children in Sicily who have sickle cell anemia, which is a genetic blood disorder that is black African in origin. The government of Sicily put him in charge of a group of doctors who study the disease in connection to it's African roots and the genetic connections in Sicily because of the MOORS. You are a fragile racist troglodyte. You must be an ignorant school shooter white nationalist American type. Don't bother with a response because I surely will not read your desperate jibberish. Get a passport and stop using the white nationalist website Stormfront as your source for information.

[@lf1496]

You are clearly not an intellectual, making ridiculous straw arguments to satisfy your world view. I live in Rome, married to a Roman Sicilian who is the living embodiment of the impact African Moors made on Italy's genetics. I studied this history in college, pouring over ancient manuscripts about who the Moors were and who they married. I also know people who studied the diversity of ancient Rome. You see that rainbow of humanity in Italian women with kinky Afros in cafes or the very dark skin of Italians in the summer on sunny beaches. They themselves have no problem acknowledging this truth telling you "lm everything like you" Its only fragile outsiders like you who want to draw lines in a world that had no racial boundaries. Italians have been doing what my husband did for centuries. They have been making brown babies with black and brown people from Africa and the Middle East just like his ancestors who made him. That is not Communism, that is history without a whiteness lie attached to it for the comfort. of fragile minds.

[@lf1496]

You are an uneducated idiot. Italians are a mixed race people from centuries ago. The mixing happened when the Moors conquered Sicily and during the Roman empire when Rome controlled Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Nubians from Sudan and Egypt lived in Roman territories. My husband is 100 percent Sicilian Roman and he did his DNA. He is 14 percent West African Mali Senegal and 11 percent North African Berber. Ice cream was brought to Siciliy by the MOORS so were pine nuts, cous cous, many words like Mafia which means secret in Arabic and sickle cell anemia which many Sicilian people have. Dummy, sickle cell anemia is a black African blood disorder. The Italian people as we know them are a result of centuries of race mixing so the fact that your grandmother saw a black man for the fit time in the war means nothing you racist troglodyte. DNA, and historical data are facts not your fragile little family antedote. My husband and l are thrilled the Black Moors are in his bloodline. The gave him beautiful dark skin, thick curly black hair, a nice butt and most importantly they made sure he didn't have a joke in his pants like you!

[@benjibenj7406]

@@lf1496 Amen!!!!

[@fredkitchen8940]

I well fancy mary beard. I bet she was well nice when she was at uni

[@cassiesmith6468]

@Peter Grahame she has a real job.

[@petermelian1346]

Matertera Maria memoriae causa sapienter nobis dicit : Induca nos in temptatione et ne nos libera de bono. Utrumque placuerit Priapus coleus pilosos ! Nunc fellandum est !

[@waindayoungthain2147]

It’s how’s the ways of intense life in attacking made Room for peace and anxiety away 😊🙏🏻by respecting each other’s with rights and rules. How’s deep heart learning from my Father’s the Progress, the democratic too throw of life’s means. It’s too much asking taking and no security in hardly time apart🤔.

[@JoaquinArguelles]

I'm not sure she answered the question.

[@rrbbet]

Guess what political persuasion Mary Beard is on ?

[@cassiesmith6468]

The correct one.

[@alexanderthegreat7213]

@@cassiesmith6468 i hope you are being sarcastic

[@cassiesmith6468]

@@alexanderthegreat7213 no, absolutely serious. Only an idiot supports Johnson.

[@benjibenj7406]

the educated side

[@markdrinkwater1508]

Leftist filth.

[@semiautothanoscar9612]

Shit Rome is getting sacked again

[@majixwahenga9874]

Leftist propaganda

[@cassiesmith6468]

Don't talk rot.

[@360lek]

Have some nuance....

[@benjibenj7406]

cry more

[@georgefloydsfake20dollarbi28]

You think your ancestors had white privileged in the Roman Empire? Look how to Romans treated your ancestors....

[@lasalleman]

Well done.

[@EfnysYersina]

Next time: What can Nazi Germany teach us about the migrant crisis?

[@faruk2050]

Libert libert libert

[@daraemamiut]

DARA

[@shacklock01]

Haha Mary Beard is aight for a Roman historian.

[@cameronaustin7734]

"Rome didn't get big because they had better equipment and tactics but because they could put more boots on the ground" *Laughs in Gallic wars*

[@mrpatriot8279]

The barbarians wanted to be part of the Roman Empire and they, outside the Anglo Saxons who invaded Briton, never destroyed classical civilization. Emmet Scott in Mohammed and Charlemagne Revisited by Emmet Scott shows how starting the 7th c. AD Islam destroyed classical civilization not the barbarians.

[@luciano9755]

Mary Beard's obsession with making parallels to modern politics is ruining her reputation as a historian. Of course she's paid to say these things, but she's also agreeing to do it.

[@HairySasquach]

Drone strikes? Nice one Mary. Real sharp commentary there. Stay in your lane.

[@SI-cd7xs]

Before 212, only inhabitants of Italia held full Roman citizenship. Colonies of Italians established in other provinces, Italians (or their descendants) and a few local nobles (such as kings of client countries) also held full citizenship. Then Caracalla the North African gave everyone citizenship and the civilisation collapsed. Just like the west now.

[@danesovic7585]

Exactly. She's being very dishonest here.