What Can Pros Teach Us About The META in THE FINALS

[@figgens123]

Weird. No one asked me.. I guess I’ll just keep sweeping my hammer in bronze rank

[@Mrshmeans]

Who's this guy?

[@figgens123]

Just a NamaTama playing a NamaTama disguised as a NamaTama with a red lollipop.

[@4eeyore266]

@@Mrshmeanshe’s just a chill guy

[@eduardosilva240]

No master please teach me the ways of the bonker

[@monsieurnugai]

@@Mrshmeansbro thats figgens123 put some respect on his name

[@GaaraFPS]

No glitch trap is so weird, glad they got rid of the no double heavy rule, but for the most part I’m glad they’re lighting up on rules.

[@shadynas7y]

A lot of people (me included) don't think a passive gadget that negates such a huge part of the game (util use and selection) should even be in the game. It adds a ton of rng to fights.

[@GaaraFPS]

@ like I suggested to a lot of people it should have a charge and not exist infinitely

[@ST4RZfps]

Hello, the reason we got rid got rid of glitch trap was becasue there was a bug with the glitch trap, where it became a problem in the competitive environment!

[@user-7x6zcpfs]

The meta is when reddit cries about something and embarks nerf it.

[@alexanderkempf9828]

If we think forums alone dictate nerfs we are very mistaken.

[@someonesomewhere8265]

ppl think heavys bad when the only teams that win onto the next rounds are those with heavy cant believe ppl think and thought hes bad

[@elite.network]

Or maybe realizing there is no meta and the game is dead

[@some0ne137]

Thanks for including our entire game ❤ And sorry for not getting it done as a Light, the last cashout on fortune stadium is my ptsd ever since... but even if light doesnt get changed, trust me we would win that series now after we ACTUALLY practiced

[@GoferON144hz]

ERMM these players aren't pros ACKSHUALLY

[@mr.potato244]

I feel that one too I'm a Diamond 1 and these type of roof shooter are really easy to deal with Just get inside building and they are so done

[@Zapmannn]

@@mr.potato244they’re playing inside of buildings too, what are you talking about????

[@GamingBanddiitt]

Banning Glitch Traps has to be the most buck tooth-tape between your glasses shit I've ever heard of.

[@DoctorWhoBlue]

Why? @GamingBanddiitt

[@whoistitan]

Why? @GamingBanddiitt

[@GamingBanddiitt]

@whoistitan because it's very selective, why not ban Model? Or ban double heal beam? Just seems like a sore loser move, to ban an item that makes you rethink your strategies or affects your personal play style.

[@figgens123]

Why? @GamingBanddiitt

[@whoistitan]

@ they did ban double healing beam

[@kauanbatista492]

9:40 the glitch grenade/barrel play was insane

[@some0ne137]

A predicted play actually ❤

[@dourdaur]

Tourney meta definitely doesn't reflect the usual casual/ranked meta, but gives good insight and tips on how an organised 3-stack can dominate the lobby. Heavies in casual/ranked play rarely use SA1216 due to it's unorthodox firing behaviour. Winch claw is a lot more common though (especially for close range weapons and LMGs), but many prefer Charge and Slam due to it's ease of use. Mediums are 100% the problem child in both metas, possessing the strongest weapon selection and most potent gadgets in the game, defib and glitch trap probably being the most controversial ones of the bunch. Light is primarily irrelevant in the tourney meta due to every class possessing close range options that cheese Lights very quickly, as they should due to the class' innate nature of being evasive, with options that highly enable hit-and-run strategies, the very ones that are difficult to pull off in tourneys due to the simple fact of teams wanting to stick together. And if every team composition consists of weapons that can cheese a Light in seconds... you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. In casual/ranked matches, those cases are a lot more uncommon, while also introducing less organised teams, which are the key factors of what make Lights so good, being able to single out targets that are not prepared or equipped to effectively dispatch/counter a Light.

[@dt99022]

Think that might be a compelling reason to give lights the defib. Mediums already do so much well-- lights are good for maneuvering, so being able to run in, grab a trophy, get it somewhere safe and defib while managing the risk of a low health pool seems like a perfect fit for light. Giving a big reward of reviving teammates quickly to offset the rest of the shortcomings of the class. While simultaneously setting medium back a bit from the everything-class.

[@arcanum3882]

Man, seeing people play for money and status at the top does really highlight how shallow Embark has made the meta over time. The Light has never been made competitively viable, ranged options have been made so lackluster they aren't viable either, and even specializations aren't equally viable either.

[@glf454]

true but what game doesnt have a meta?

[@partyharderson]

@@glf454don’t you think it’s sad that a game with 3 classes only has TWO competitively viable ones?

[@clintshidwood4511]

@@partyharderson how are they supposed to balance light around both casuals and competitive? no shit comps destroy lights, they all have coms, insane game sense and perfect aim. the entire gimmick of light is moving fast and melting opponent before they figure out where you at and manage to aim at you. this obviously doesnt work at high level because sweats know exactly where you are and track the fug out of you no matter how you move. best a light can do is trade, and have his kill insta defibbed. most of the time he will just get splatted like a fly. there is no changing this without making the game The Lights because that is what will happen to casual games when light is buffed to the point of being viable in irl tournaments.

[@podimegwu12]

@@clintshidwood4511role queue lock L/H/M imo is the best way to balance this problem

[@Zapmannn]

@@podimegwu12making someone play a competitively bad character in the competitive scene, is asinine and a great way to kill the e sport 🤦‍♂️.

[@eyev_]

Is there any reason given why no one used charge as heavy? Is being able to winch someone out of their formation just too valuable?

[@figgens123]

Moving point and manipulating cashout alone is huge IMO.

[@arcanum3882]

A ton of heavies in diamond and ruby use charge and slam. Its probably more used than winch claw. But for a coordinated team, pulling a good enemy out of position is very valuable

[@Sam-m7m7u]

Winch has useful cash out utility for both stealing and defending, also a successful winch turns most fights into a 3v2 instantly.

[@savagebeast64]

Winch hard counters charge when done properly

[@Appoh]

winch just counters charge

[@RightClickGamers]

It amuses me that the heavy interview was "winch isn't that good" to seeing winch be most picked. The fact that people have varying opinions on stuff gives me hope that there's room for discovery and that people went with these loadouts more because they've safe and widely tested. Also, shoutout to NolyX for sticking to his main KS-23! Saw him on youtube a couple months ago and was so happy to see something different!

[@Abc123z1000]

Fun fact, you can YEET people off the map with the winch and the spear 😆

[@ShaoShaoMienshao]

I think its because at the time, Heavies didn't like the shift away from Mesh shield and were coping by saying Winch wasn't good. It meant learning a new skill set. Over time, it proved to be the best option with the most utility.

[@saedram2]

In my opinion, when they nerf medium especially defib and heal, ppl will start playing lights more frequently

[@Atom1cAtom]

yeah, and?

[@saedram2]

@Atom1cAtom and what? I just expressed my opinion

[@spakentruth]

Unfortunately this will absolutely happen. I hate 3x M. But so many light avoid playing around their team and this is the biggest problem. Compounded with the alleged sniper rifle buff that will allow them to 2 shot body mediums. Expect more light to essentially play away from teammates.

[@ST4RZfps]

Hello just to clarify something, the reason we got rid got rid of the glitch trap was becasue there was a bug with the glitch trap, where it became a problem in the competitive environment! I dont want to give too much information as I do not want people to abuse but this is the reason! EDIT: Prior to the rule change, it was being used quite a bit in split 2 masters and a lot on Last Chance Qualifiers

[@donavangaudet3829]

More people need to see this, that explains a lot about it.

[@GerryCasts]

5:15 iirc there was a sledgehammer pick in the group stage which won their team a map!

[@Hyprst]

there was a hammer in semi finals too!! they were getting rolled and down 2 games so for their last one they played hammer as a troll pick, and ended up taking a cashout!

[@GerryCasts]

@Hyprst the secret counter to the meta

[@jackiesimplejake]

when real money is on the line, The "Meta" switches up real fucking quick. It's no longer your favorite pubstomping weapon, or your favorite meme weapon. It's what's going to help your team win and not lose

[@Prunesquallor]

As a solo queuer I struggle the most with medium. It really only feels the best when I have a full stack and we're coordinated. I have a much higher win rate with light and heavy when solo queuing.

[@Mr.K.dilkington1965]

It depends on how you like to play, medium has 3 different play styles. Turrets defence on or around point, healing beam, is depended on a good teammates and demat medium can play like a light. It’s all up to u, and certain comps just work better together!

[@tbovvy]

Medium u should def learn it’s the best class in the game for the team

[@bigjerome-wz4uo]

Medium is OP in solo queue cause with demat you can play like a light when needed or play for long-range map control with the AKM, OR defend cashout from above. Extremely versatile and honestly high untapped potential in comp gameplay

[@whysatanwhy]

should mesh block winch ? i think yes . but it should still go through bubble

[@dourdaur]

Would make the understanding of shield behaviour inconsistent tho unless we introduce more shield gadgets.

[@basiics]

i like that you made a difference between pugs and pro scrims. many people use the terms synonymously. pugs great for casual fun, but far away from a scrim and even further from a tourney

[@trace3562]

Goo is pretty underrated. With jump pads you can angle them on the goo and when an enemy is stealing in certain instances its more useful to stop the steal with the goo.

[@bigjerome-wz4uo]

How tf do u stop a cash out with goo?

[@johnmarry5976]

@@bigjerome-wz4uo Goo tf out of the enemies of course, spam it in the faces, make them move and unable to press the button

[@Timosius]

i need the old firerate of the throwing knifes back man.

[@rapid_rivers3294]

Subbed quickly. Great narration, voice, and in a humble way of explaining this is for the "pro" scene🎉

[@Ic3Man_Gaming]

Don't recall it being mentioned (or perhaps I just missed it) but we're any of the players controller or were all of them M&K? Some of the footage showed controller binds but I wasn't sure if that was just from the spectator or not.

[@Appoh]

@@Ic3Man_Gaming the spectator was on roller. And there were a few controller players yes. Even a full console team but they did get eliminated pretty early

[@crimeman621]

4:58 i still don’t understand how to use that damn gun

[@schm3ez]

Great coverage. Thanks for the class selection breakdowns

[@liljashy1463]

KS-23?? What? That's actually completely mind-blowing to me

[@HYDRARMOR]

I easily dominate as light at lower rank lobbies but when it comes to plat 1 - diamond ranks light is almost unplayable. Damage is great, mobility is great but in fight I don't have enough utility to counter triple mediums or HHM for example. Don't even know what to suggest here....

[@tate_g_facts3233]

Learn the dagger. It might help if u master it. Then the mediums comes balloons but if they use glitch traps then u need somebody else to destroy them

[@josephskillicorn3697]

i was just going to your channel for a light guide

[@theonlyworldunknown5729]

? How many attempts did it take to just be able to throw the box in like that??

[@Appoh]

@@theonlyworldunknown5729 at the start? Just one. You get the hang of throwing distance over time. I pull these off pretty often

[@ShaoShaoMienshao]

​@Appoh Just reminding you that you are in fact built different and this isn't a normal skill easily acquired by the average human being. 😮

[@thesalmonorchestra651]

Light seems to have a serious problem where they’re not actually that good at a competitive level, but a lot of their kit is based around harassing/annoying your opponent so in a casual setting they’re really infuriating to fight. I like playing light, and I usually run gas/sonar/gates, since I’ve been on the receiving end of tasers and glitch nades and tbh it’s both just really unfun to use and get hit with. Nevermind the fact they’re not actually that good against mediums or heavies.

[@Savon1c]

I love running thermal and smokes, been using it for a month now its a guaranteed 2nd or 1st

[@randomknowledge3116]

Lets go another Appoh Video

[@MADOYS]

wakey wakey appoh time for S5 reaction slop

[@MrMadXenomorph]

Ahhh the Light class... tedious to play as, annoying to play with and infuriating to play against. The whole trifecta! I was saying that the Light class needs a complete overhaul/redesign from basically day 1 and so far barely anything has been done.

[@Rabierezali1056]

They should buff the HP light

[@JoEVILS]

I mean, it is the main issue with lights. I'd say have a separate playlist with lights at 175, mediums keep at 250 and lower heavy to 325. See how it plays. Lights will always be battling uphill because their 'hit and run'style just doesn't work against co-ordinated teams that stick together.

[@willx6394]

Half the time theres no counter to the winch its op

[@SASUKExLEGiiT]

Was the tournament after the recent model nerf?

[@Appoh]

@@SASUKExLEGiiT not the last one no, but it seems the meta hasnt changed since, i have a vid about model soon

[@SASUKExLEGiiT]

@@Appoh Thx!

[@CTuBXyuc]

This tournament was after model nerf or before?

[@GerryCasts]

Before.

[@CTuBXyuc]

@@GerryCasts got it, thanks

[@usn_sxbzer0]

Was this tournament after the Model nerf?

[@sucettebleu346]

Wow, didnt expect out of all the gadgets weapons and specializations glitch traps were the one considered too op or too annoying I mean I know they re strong but out of the many bullshit why this one? Also its one gadget that is quite strategic and that I would like to see used in a comp setting

[@Appoh]

@@sucettebleu346 it basically just cancelled all gameplay, walking into it means no specs or gadgets which made playing and watching extremely boring. A 3v3 fight where 2 teams arent using anything ither than guns was not engaging enough for esports

[@sucettebleu346]

@Appoh but it only takes 1 bullet or one melee to break right?

[@Appoh]

@@sucettebleu346 when 1 team is just sitting on it makes it hard to play into, we ended up with stalemates of waiting for enemy team to push. had nothing to do with it being op. but it simply making the game boring when it is in play. it was a vote by the community they did not want to see it, i agree it is boring

[@sucettebleu346]

@@Appoh I see, does aps not have the same effect?

[@zep2375]

When was this particular tourney?

[@KaljaCules]

where u can watch those games live?

[@TheIntelligentVehicle]

Another very helpful video. Thx

[@LonelyHollowss]

If I’m able to kill a pro am I considered a pro?

[@Appoh]

@@LonelyHollowss obvi

[@Kotasake]

No

[@LonelyHollowss]

Ig im a pro

[@hippojimbo]

pro means you get paid

[@tyranus1111]

Light not being any good in pro baffles me. Between outranging with lh1 and sniper out manuvering with dash or the all the benefits throwing knives have like not needing to reload after getting revived youd think there would be more utility.

[@F3-Educ.]

It should be, but they become very difficult weapons to dominate with when versing a good team that force the fight indoors. A light with lh1 can be deleted so quickly indoors when rpg'd and then naded or even potplanted. Snipe becomes useless if a good team drops APS, barricades, dome shields, and C4 onto a cash site. As a light against a high elo HMM stack pretty much means instant death if your not getting lucky and leveraging perfect moments in chaotic moments. Your also leaving your team in a 2v3 if your trying to leverage moments of chaos without getting AOE'd by sitting too close to your team. Honestly, the problem with lights is their HP. In a game that is so random, having the lowest HP just makes you a liability to a high elo team. They are also not worth being defibbed by a teammate if there is another heavy or medium that can be defibbed instead. Embark have made it very clear that the meta is high HP + Close Range engagements. The nerf of the glitch grenade was the first sign of this shift imo

[@Appoh]

@@tyranus1111 light is a pub stomper thats about it. In reality they arent that good

[@bf5175]

@@Appoh If you only play casually then light is very good and can dominate a match. And that's a big problem because light is the most annoying class to fight against (cloak, stun) and is the #1 reason some people try the game, don't have fun, and stop playing. If Embark tries to balance the light for competitive play then they will be even more annoying and OP in casual play, causing more casual players to stop playing the game and that is where their money comes from. Embark has really created a monster of an issue for themselves.

[@torrak5338]

@@bf5175such a bs. if people stop playing bc they cant play around a mechanic that is objectively the worst out of all. it just needs they need to learn to adapt and need to get better. people complaining are people who simply just dont understand that they are bad and need to improve (use their brain not only raw aim) same goes with every shooter

[@ChickenPhobia]

It's simply the room for error vs the amount of effort required, even on sniper (trust me here) it's only semi consistent in top 500 ranked games regardless of how good your aim, positioning, gamesense, etc is. The chaos of the finals at 150hp is a lot rougher than 350hp... especially when the 350hp class is rewarded by fast defibs when playing together with the team

[@Cqat1]

Man i miss piggy and the xp

[@beardedwolf628]

Because of the crying about lights from the top 0.1%, lights are buffed into oblivion and run rampant on normal servers. Meanwhile no-one plays heavy on normal servers. Embark only listens to the pros, like every game does now, and will kill it for the normal player soon enough.

[@Mcquaide23]

The lights are a plague, so much so I refuse to play the class.

[@MrZombastic]

Balancing a competitive game about low elo is the worst thing you could do. Basically balancing a game around people that dont even have the skill to play the game proper is such a braindead take. They are litterally listening to reddit casuals to nerf sword light which already wasnt op at all. It was barely viable in higher elos.

[@agedgouda8809]

Do you know if third party crosshairs were used in the tournament or if that matters at all? I wanna get one for the finals and I know embark technically allows it, not sure how the community feels abt them at large though.

[@bigjerome-wz4uo]

Well there won't be much point considering they're removing visual recoil next update, but I imagine embark is not a fan. Still, they can't stop you 🤷‍♂️

[@Ekhin]

Where do u watch these “comp” games?

[@GerryCasts]

@BreakoutES . The games were livestreamed on Twitch and YT

[@Ekhin]

@ Ty

[@willx6394]

Yeah i play solo and whenever i get HMM team its the best. Must have defibs though.

[@jxcob_yt]

Why they only play 3 v 3 instead of 4s. U can’t make a 14 team tourney in customs

[@Appoh]

@@jxcob_yt they played 4 team rounds too. I even broke those stats down too

[@shadynas7y]

Kinda fits what most have been saying for a WHILE. Shotguns OP, Light sucks, Glitch Trap shouldn't be in the game and Medium not only has the best gun(s) but the best util & specializations as well. I'm sure Embark will fix it all in Season 5 lol. Thanks for another great vid.

[@cesaroyola5902]

Just out of curiosity, why shouldn't the glitch trap be in the game ?

[@donutmerchant8393]

@@cesaroyola5902someone mentioned elsewhere in the comments but it maybe adds rng and shuts down too much of the game. Someone else mentioned it’s bugged. Idk take either as you will.

[@clintshidwood4511]

@@cesaroyola5902 press one button and indefinitely shut down all gadgets and specs of enemy x3. 2 medium per team both running glitch mines = 4 glitch mines. massive defender advantage. there is no other gadgets in the game that has this much impact and so little counter.

[@KianFloppa]

update fsr 2 to fsr 3.1.2 embark we need it

[@user-ne9sd4ow1o]

I see this comment on every The Finals vid. I agree! Performance is the main reason I don't play as much

[@Mawntee]

The game is mostly CPU bound, not GPU. Updating FSR won't bring the performance buff you think it would.

[@Kotasake]

You need more CPU cores myguy

[@Mawntee]

@@Kotasake Yup. Still on my ancient 8 core 16 thread i9 9900k Although with that said, this is the only game where I genuinely struggle to hold even a consistent 90fps @1080p with a 3080ti Everything else in my library (including VR titles) can hold 120 with zero issues.

[@Atom1cAtom]

@@Mawntee what bruh? u got a virus or smth im only a 3060ti with a 6 core 12 thread 5 5600x @1440p getting 110

[@DrDragon_YT]

Please stop dropping so many banger videos! I simply can't keep up.

[@Tobias-]

No one threw knifes? 😂

[@Juancrii]

Judging by the quality of your videos, I thought that your channel had like 100k subscribers. Your content is amazing, the best YT channel of the game by a lot. I would love to see a how to improve series.

[@Appoh]

I appreciate the kind words

[@user-ne9sd4ow1o]

HML = hate my life 😅

[@bigjerome-wz4uo]

True, you hate your life if you run this stack

[@JW0P]

W vid!Very informative

[@bucket936]

Wait there are pros in the finals? 😅

[@2s2bs]

Maybe a weird question but, any stats on how many players were on KBM or Controller?

[@dg2010]

No glitch but stun allowed? Lol

[@clintshidwood4511]

a glitch can effect 3 people at a time, is indefinite and disables gadgets in addition to specs, and you couldve had upto 4 of them when 2 M's are running it. a stun gun is not very good in comps, because 1. you need to have a light on your team and 2. teams play together, a heavy drops a dome and your stun did nothing.

[@dg2010]

@@clintshidwood4511 Yeah I can see that. I'm more blinded by how annoying the stun is than its metablility if you will.

[@ecstxs]

this isn’t that in tune with the video, but the fact that fights are generally 20ish seconds, or seem to end quite fast makes watching games sometimes boring

[@GerryCasts]

I agree somewhat, i much preferred watching and casting the Group Stage where the game was 3v3v3v3. More challenging to watch with the current HUD limitations, but far more engrossing

[@Appoh]

@@ecstxs this has been a big discussion around spectating games, the 12 man rounds have more action but the 3v3 rounds are more competitive, the downtime in 3v3 can get boring sadly

[@ecstxs]

@@GerryCasts was definitely interesting watching 12 man games. there definitely needs to be some adjustments made to the 3v3 part though as it is in the end a core part of the “The Finals”

[@ecstxs]

@@Appoh i used to be very pro faster ttk, but after seeing some of these 3v3s, i’m not particularly sure what to think. perhaps a shield meta needs to come back to make fights last longer, but too many shields can be overbearing and make the game feel worse overall.

[@Styrophone1]

subscribed!

[@Atom1cAtom]

14:15 why didnt you talk about the sword player cutting ur teammates in half, that thing needs another nerf tbh

[@anonymousguy9871]

Skill issue. There’s a reason that the sword was never mentioned in this video.

[@GoferON144hz]

i wasnt first cuz i was playing 12 mans scrims with derp and carbone GG

[@gabrielraphi5771]

Is this game getting more active or less, I need a non biased awnser please.

[@donavangaudet3829]

As someone who plays regularly every other season its getting more players actually! And the average player base is getting better too.

[@kailerpetersen6404]

I do not like queuing against you bro

[@mr.nihilistic]

this game isnt true comp, they had something in s1 and beta but manage to screw it up , instead of buffing weapons like the 93r and most precision weapons they would rather not take the chance and keep the same basic combo, buffing lights weapons alone isnt a fix, its a band aid and serves even more of a problem further down the road, this game needs dedicated servers and a true skill ranking system along with some serious optimization fixes, every time they update the game it breaks, embark please stop listening to the dischord and reddit community and look at specifically what the winning team deoes and how it goes about it, look at other games from the past such as halo 3 and quake, stop the nerf and develop more strats

[@bigjerome-wz4uo]

Straight fax I see no lie in this post

[@ShootFirstNS]

No glitch? wtf is that? Remove defib if anything. that's weird.

[@Trevyno101]

Don’t make videos like this, they’ll just keep nerfing 😂

[@Appoh]

trust me I wish my videos dictated balance lol, they do not

[@beardedwolf628]

Balance the game around the top 0.01%, and you'll soon have 99.99% fewer players.

[@llllllllllllllIIlIllIIllIIIIll]

Hi😊

[@sc0op15]

ebark has nerfed nearly every gun that was fun to us. it's become so repetitive...

[@fastmot1on]

Nobody cares what some ridiculous nerds think lmao just play the game however you like

[@Appoh]

i mean you clicked the video title for a reason, you secretly care dont ya ;)

[@fastmot1on]

@@Appohmainly because i couldn't believe some people unironically call themselves "professional players of the finals" 😂 how silly does that sound

[@Appoh]

@@fastmot1on eyyyyy there it is, my description predicted it lets go

[@Waltztacular]

​@@fastmot1on I mean they literally made money from playing the game, but I suppose you have an unachievable definition in mind

[@Randomstuffguyyt]

First BABY!!!!!!! 30 seconds ago

[@figgens123]

👀👀

[@VicariaAristhene]

Could someone please tell me what double spec is I'm stupid 🫣

[@BlueBeats169]

2 Mediums running heal beam, or 2 heavys running mesh shield