WHAT DIABLO 2 - VERSION 1.0 DID RIGHT!!! (And Wrong)

Broadcasted live on Twitch -- Watch live at / mrllamasc

[@Blaergh]

It's interesting looking at vanilla D2 and comparing it to D1. It's that slightly slower pace that I loved about ARPGs. Modern games are a rush-fest where you don't get to know the enemies you kill, so the monster sounds never become iconic, their animations never really sticking to my memory, unlike zombies in D1 or Fallen in D2. I also preferred being rewarded for looking over the entirety of a map or level instead of just b-lining to the next exit or set of stairs or whatever. Scarcity makes you look for stuff, and makes it feel more "real". Iunno.

[@MythrilZenith]

You managed to put into words the reason why I keep coming back to diablo 1, even more than d2.

[@ragerontilt4778]

I agree with you. I’d wish there was a modern option for this. I dont think it’s really the game’s fault. The modern arpgs are like that because it’s how most people tried play the old ones. The new games are rush fest a in an attempt to cater to gamer behaviour.

[@Nevermore2790]

@@ragerontilt4778 Yeah, agree. I am really guessing that there are some things that are caused by gamers themselves. I really prefer [very] long games than short games. You CAN put SO MANY ups and downs on your long content, and if I am impressed and is satisfied at the end, it will feel like a journey. For short games, it has to strike on every accounts. Otherwise, I am not going to be satisfied and makes me want more of this. This one, not sure if it's true at all, can be one of the causes of sequel-baiting on its worse. Usually, my minimum estimated total game time for a game is roughly 8 hours to 15 hours (enough for budget games), and maximum can be anywhere above 15 hours, but usually up to 200 hours, but I dunno? It can be more than that, but then, again? I don't know. No wonder if it can really be a Meta line for Deckard Cain? "Hello, my friend! Stay awhile and listen."

[@erwin7471]

Plague bearer suck noise

[@Novacification]

Yeah. D3 suffers from this and PoE is the same, maybe even worse in the endgame. It fairly quickly switches in scale from killing a few monsters to clearing screens full of monsters so fast that you barely register what is happening. It's just a slideshow of full screen explosions. You don't think "Oh! There's a lot of monsters here. Better be careful", instead you're thinking "Ah! There's something to kill but where is the next group?"

[@warehawk]

Watching your 1.0 playthroughs made me want to go back and play 1.0 and I love it. The difficulty and the amount of engagement the game asks of you is amazing, encouraging you to explore every corner of the game because you are so gold, xp, and resource starved makes things way more exciting. I really wish games were still being made like this today

[@jaysahup6563]

i remember my first diablo kill with my vengence pally, i think got killed around 20 times atleast and got caught in bone prison too !

[@LetThePoorStarve]

@@jaysahup6563 lol I forgot about his bone prison! Shame they took it out. Diablo is a pushover now

[@YllnerMusic]

I watched your 1.0 runs, great idea! I really feel with you when you talk about difficulty in games nowdays. I have been playing through d2 again recently and have been thinking to myself "damn, I must have been so bad" while thinking back to myself playing as a kid, never getting past act II arcane sanctuary on my first character. However, now I realize that i was playing 1.0 and that it was quite a feat! Esp. With the fact that I knew almost no English. Trial and error my friends, trial and error.

[@13lacksta12_RV]

Yep. Diablo 2 makes you feel that adventuring is difficult and fighting evil is brutal and dark

[@chickennoodles5265]

I just want 2 things from D4. 1 .Dont make builds for the players. Give us a game we can theory craft, get rid of mandatory set builds. 2. Greater rift should not be the main part of end game content. When the goal is endless dungeon that rises infinitely, you reduce viability of 99% of builds and this brings us back to point #1 that everyone is playing that one mandatory build.

[@urlond9371]

This so much, you should be able to play how you wanna play, not how a meta should tell you how to play.

[@FFFFFFF-FFFFFFFUUUUCCCC]

I also want character skin DLC's and Fortnite dancing

[@Nick3lass3]

I dont think the game should focus too much at "end game" at all. I just want a solid experience in the main playthrough from the start till the last boss. Preferably hell difficulty should be hard and require gear to clear certain bosses, hences motivating the player to get out in the world and do some grinding untill they hope or think they are ready to tackle a big main boss.

[@TheCooderix]

Greater rifts can be a main part of endgame, but then skills have to be balanced not around mandatory set builds as you mentioned. Path of Exile does this very well, where every skill is technically viable (Some are obviously way better than others just due to the nature of how they work) and the best gear is and or at least used to be rare items, with a few uniques here and there depending on your build.

[@ChuuniKaede]

@@urlond9371 any game that employs asymmetrical balance will always have a metagame. It will always have a build or builds that are objectively better than others. For something to be good, something else has to be worse.

[@willironmonger1]

i found you a few months ago and i was blown away at how fast you speedrunners could play diablo 2, my memories of playing it were rough and i was amazed at how fast it could be done. then i realized i had always been playing 1.0 and i felt better about myself.

[@mattwilsonms]

Love your content! Im starting D2 over and you have shown my allot of things I had forgotten or even know in the first place~ Good good stuff!!

[@Jared-vq4zy]

You're like the only person I go to to learn things about d2. You know so much about the game, and yet you can condense such complex stuff into simple enough terms that noobs can understand. I honestly forgot about this game, but watching your stream reminded me of whan I was 8 years old and first played it with my brothers. It's that passion we need to remind us what a good game can be like, a artfully crafted deep game like diablo 2 should be a shining example of proper video game design for other developers to emulate.

[@hullbarrett]

This is what we old timers call a *dungeon crawl* ... where you literally crawled on your hands and knees through every step of the game to survive, or else you would die in a heartbeat. That is the definition of *Diablo 1* and the definition of *dungeon crawl* ... If you want to experience a true *dungeon crawl* , then load up Diablo 1 (GOG.com has it for sale for modern computers) and play the Warrior. Don't worry about what Carbot says, you can definitely make it through the game with a Warrior, if you crawl through it... I call it the *Diablo two-step* (i.e. take two steps and wait to see what you aggro, then slaughter it.

[@procow2274]

Ps1 diablo 1 if you want even more challenge

[@codetaku]

I agree with most of what you said, but I have to say that although the monsters could stand to be harder to compensate, the ability to have semideterministic progress via runewords was also vastly superior. The game should've been balanced so that in the absence of lucky unique item drops, you need to craft things like Stealth, Lore, and Spirit to meaningfully progress past the levels where those become available to you. It's not just the mana pots that made the game easier for casters. The monsters in LoD were just as strong as in vanilla, but they could've stood to be much stronger because of the extremely powerful crafts made available to us. If horadric cube recipes were made more obvious in-game, then even actual orange "crafted items" could've been seen as mandatory to progress. But even though the power creep did make the game, by some standards, "too easy", it's still good as a system. I don't think the system of just relying on rare and unique drops in D2 to progress your character made as much sense by comparison.

[@BenjiAven]

Nice video ! And I love 1.0 speedruns, feel free to do more of those ;)

[@johannesgillberg9393]

Your thoughts on the resource management and particularly the point where you need to be careful moving forward with risk of being surrounded really hit the spot for me. I want that in D4. That's when the scary element comes in, and every monster becomes so much more "real" and just not something you throw dps on to see the numbers or to get you through to the next area. I believe that D3 just wasn't having that element because eventually you barely even see that monsters anymore. Immersion will be their success or downfall.

[@finalcam1740]

I barely look at monsters. I watch my buffs and cool downs most of the time and just navigate the map through peripheral.

[@garrywindshield1]

It so great that people like you, who have a following, express these thoughts and feelings. This have been my opinion for the last 10 years about all games that are being produced. They are all too easy and meaningless. I have some other hardcore classic gamer friends who say the same thing. But online...I always get brigaded by people who say things they don't understand. They find entertainment in not being challenged. But that's the opposite goal of any game, computer or not. Games should be hard, that's the essence of the game. That's how you get the feeling of adventure and immersion. By overcoming obstacles and finding new ways of beating the game. Not having mana potions does sounds horrendous, but that the price you've gotta pay to play a sorc that has other benefits. It's really great. Even if you don't like a character and you don't play him it's still matters that all characters are equally balanced. It creates suspension, makes game really dark and hard. And by the way, you can make a game really dark without it being hard. You can't fool yourself with dark colors and music if you're literally not afraid of the monsters and the world. If it's not harsh it's not dark no matter how you paint it.

[@AlexeiVoronin]

You know, I am thinking about recording a full 1.00 playthrough for KZbin some day - not as a speedrun, but a thorough playthrough. More importantly, I would focus on the differences in this old version, especially things that were removed in later versions (e.g. the thunder & lightning effect during rain, or Flamespike the Crawler - the super-uniquer monster that used to be in Inner Cloister). Another idea for such a playthrough would be Lord of Destruction 1.07, i.e. the original unpatched version.

[@metastase895]

That would be really cool to watch man. What is this thunder effect during rain you speak of?

[@AlexeiVoronin]

@@metastase895 It's a flash of light that occurs during rain + a thunder sound effect. I suppose it was eventually removed because it could be seizure-induzing... who knows. Some hirelings also had additional running animations in older versions, I've also seen Rogue mercs wearing helmets.

[@dreboy_]

Thanks for all your D2 content Llama!

[@Christawpher]

I've been watching you for years man, and I gotta say you have the right attitudes towards what makes a game good. You inspired me to go back to play Diablo 1 v 1.00 for a quick run through. There's some other personalities out there pushing information and strats, but I find myself nodding and saying "yup. Mhm, yeah. EXACTLY!' when you go off on your philosophies.

[@BrettEPierce]

I've been enjoying 1.09 LOD lately, good balance of difficulty and QoL stuff. Still can't buy mana potions, but they seem to drop a little more often than vanilla. Also the lack of synergies is WONDERFUL.

[@GameplayandTalk]

It's great to see some commentary about 1.00. I gave up on D2 back in the day because it was challenging and I didn't understand some of its mechanics. Fast forward to today and I'm trying it again (1.00, nearing the halfway point of Act IV as I type). While by this point I have been dying for some QOL improvements, I also have felt right at home having previously mainly playing a ton of Diablo 1 (it's one of those games I fire up at least once a year). Knowing all of the differences now in LoD, in a way I'm appreciating that I decided to do this completely vanilla to start. It gives perspective to the grand scheme of things, and like you mentioned, it has also been a challenge and that is something I need in my games. I had started Diablo 3 a few years back, played a few hours, enjoyed myself enough, but never went back because I couldn't even force myself to die. On its default difficulty it was ridiculously easy, whereas D1 and D2 (1.00) you can get wrecked right from the start. They are very different beasts it seems.

[@PK_Rocking]

Llama, I am 100% on the grid with how hard 1.0 was. It is something that I was into just like old Everquest Pre Planes of Power. The one thing that sucks is people wont change out of the "I need instant gratification". I have more fun and it looks like you also enjoy games with harder challenges that make getting the item's or whatever they may be WAY more enjoyable. I HOPE D4 makes it hard almost to the point you need to put in a hour or two to get a nice item rather then 50 unique items that are trash and you just break them down for materials.

[@NoFutureForG0uda]

ilvl generated items just doesnt make it for me. I cant stand it anymore. I dont get how its admitted that scamfest Gacha phone games are shit and that you can spot them at the moment they tell you about Power Level, but somehow ilvl-based random generators are fine.

[@PK_Rocking]

@@NoFutureForG0uda Agreed!

[@justinsnider9772]

Man classic d2 was so awesome. I remember the rare items were where it was at like a Max def ornate plate with some nice attributes. That loot system got me so hooked.

[@TotoMuffinJoly]

I love this introspective because this is the reason I currently only play Classic wow/Ironman OSRS. The feeling of having all these things that hinder you at first, but become easier as you put in the effort, thats the best feeling. If its easy as pie from the beginning, it feels like I just booted up a mobile app game.

[@TimmacTR]

Can you PLEASE make a full on design analysis and comparison of SYNERGY before and after? I think strongly that the game is better without synergies because synergy reduces the number of top viable builds. (hammerdin for example)

[@zilliq]

Talking about difficult games and not mentioning dark souls, I just began playing ds1 for the first time and it's a blast. Rarely has a game made me stop in game for a while to consider my options

[@JohnSmith-ty2he]

My problem with dark souls is it's super easy to cheese if you just grind an area for an hour or two. The games goes from hard to a joke if you do that.

[@heywhatup9657]

I hadn’t watched the 1.0 runs til you posted this. They are reaaaaally interesting. Make sroy’s dreams come true and do a necro

[@sunshower6560]

9:48 - When Llama finally goes on his honeymoon.

[@josephphillips3985]

This is how I actually remember the game in my childhood. I played it about a month after release and I didn’t have internet. So I had to play base game and beat it all the way through. I remember it being so challenging and the excitement of the first time I got my first rare, set and unique items. The dopamine rush from how rewarding that was to earn

[@josephphillips3985]

Also, you touching on the gold side. Man I remember picking up every item including the crappiest crude items for every ounce of gold I could earn from it. Was so fun. I miss games being crazy difficult like tbat

[@mattsteiner8788]

I've been playing some D3 lately and had some fun, but it's basically Dynasty Warriors, plus even more of a grindfest.

[@Christawpher]

Dynasty Warriors is a really good way to put it. I heard Llama compare it to Gauntlet Legends as well.

[@Th3M4k40n]

The best part of 1.0 was that we got to see so much of Llama's smile :)

[@crxo7106]

Um gay

[@rafaelmorales1926]

Damn male simping is really a thing Just kidding king

[@Th3M4k40n]

@@crxo7106 Hella

[@hsdExorcist]

Agree with you so much! Live your streams and the way you think about games like diablo, that's what we need - a difficult game. Not broken difficult but so that I could explore and enjoy the game while giving thought to all things I do withing that game.

[@IurenRamiro]

The same experience as locking a door to face enemies in a line. Miss that stuff

[@alextriphonov4427]

You should try 1.07 next. Maybe that's the best patch- LOD, vendors still have no mana pots, but kinda decent drop of items and pots(incl. mana) from monsters.

[@imdeathdude]

Have you played much 1.07 MrLlama? I really enjoyed the grind on that version, as well as all of the silly bugs..dual wield wands, purchasing rejuves from vendors to combat no mana, triumphant ring of the apprentice (10FCR + 37 mana per kill) , increase life40% shako, rack farming for unique items because bosses can't drop them, crafting items being able to get magic/rare affixes... it's a whole different experience than 1.13 and was great fun

[@MythrilZenith]

I love this discussion. Would be amazing if you could get David Brevik on this to talk more about all this stuff, like when you got Max Schaefer on.

[@brunovallesmunoz4757]

I got two 2 words for D2 1.0 Lightning enchanted - Multiple shots That was sentence of death!!

[@adamcarr4989]

That is 4 words.

[@googleuser9013]

multishot lightning enchanced aura enchanced aura just so happens to be conviction oblivion knight in chaos sanctuary and their iron maiden curse. as whirlwind barb or zeal paladin extra fast extra strong aura enchanced (decrepify) death lord & co. only escape route is guarded by group of whatever with cold enchant and might aura. And they will join in on the fun in just a sec. Last one might still be posible. I haven't got very far since I started playing again.

[@rfo98b]

@@adamcarr4989 two 2 words

[@sergeysmyshlyaev9716]

AFAIR when Multiple shot came first it was much worse, they were called MLEBs (as opposed to LEMBs)

[@chezeus1672]

@@sergeysmyshlyaev9716 i never heard/read "LEMB", and since you usually see MLEBs by their lightning balls and don't have time to read the description, i don't think anybody made a difference. at least in 1.09 classic EU we didn't.

[@jumil8460]

MrLlama, are you going to do a review on the new Diablo Immortal trailer?

[@lucasbarbieri2632]

Great video. Is it possible to get version 1.0 without the original cd? If it is, could you give some tips on how to do it? I'd really, really like to try it again, sounds super fun

[@coreysayre1376]

Please listen to this man Blizzard! For the first time in years I was finally able to get modern d2 to run on my windows 10 PC, and although it's still great fun, it most certainly is sooo much easier to just plow on through it then it used to be. I would have spent weeks to get a fresh toon as geared (and leveled) as I have done just playing through today solo. D2 Version 1.0 is the ARPG gold standard in its overall design and underlying gameplay mechanics. It's overall challenge and ability to engage the player has yet to be topped. The difficulty and time required to overcome those challenges, are directly related to how engaging the game is; moreso, a great challenge often evokes similarly powerful emotion which causes the experience/memories of it to endure long-term. When these elements are streamlined and a game becomes more and more 'casual' (perhaps convenient is a better adjective), the less longevity a game will have from user loss-of-interest. I do fully agree with ease-of-life changes, such as Hoykey and UI improvments, as well as some other things Mr. Llama mentioned in regards to class balance, but I would caution against gameplay changes aimed at reducing tedium if doing so would upset an underlying balance/gameplay (Ie: Potions stacking at the vendor is great, but making them infinite because finding them 'is really just a time sink anyways', thus upsetting the underlying scarcity mechanic )

[@bottosrob]

I really liked this video!!! It’s weird that it’s was sooo hard yet they tried to make “slightly” better whatever as a way to make it more casual. But it’s cool to look back to see what they were thinking with a game that was so new in many ways. They didn’t know what was going to stick. They just did what they thought would work and they liked.

[@matthewgagnon9426]

One thing not being able to buy mana potions does is make Energy not a complete joke of a skill. Having a deep mana pool actually matters, but you have to balance that between the need for Vitality for more health, and the other stats for equipment.

[@IMaximusDMI]

I think it would be cool to have ladder seasons themed around this. Imagine a version 1.0 ladder season. Or even a ladder season without a character class, or other restrictions or challenges that are throughout the game for the season. It would definitely bring life to the game.

[@btrimtwitch]

Mana potions weren't available from vendors until 1.10. I played mostly LoD 1.08 and 1.09, which was a bit more balanced and polished than 1.0

[@gigiduru125]

When I started playing LOD from previously completing 1.0x with a barbarian, I created a sorceress and pumped warmth like 10 points because I knew mana was scarce and I think also no mana pots at vendors but I guy who knew the game better then told me to just delete it and start over, I think more mana started dropping at that point.

[@EirikrTheRed]

I’ve played 1.06b religiously. I have played since 1.00. Hardcore (after the first sir) Yea I’ve gone through all the patches and changes and done all content. But that’s my favorite. 1.06b. Major bugs fixed but still classic. All is well. Then d2r. The new graphics are hard to pass up. And hard to return to the old. Even if the game is better in older version. Would love a way to switch versions in d2r. Love to see you run this content and your take on it is the same as mine.

[@DjZephy]

MrLlamaSC this video was extremely informative! I have a theory that power creep is a way of keeping players coming back. I know it worked really well at keeping my hooked on D3. Every season I would think how ridiculous the power creep was, but I still wanted to try the new build. Yeah, it does cheapen the game in a way, but yet adds replayability. It's a trade-off. Maybe a game should have certain seasons where you have extra power, but then other seasons where you are either back to standard difficulty, or maybe even have to deal with INCREASED difficulty, that way you have power oscillating up and down over time rather than creeping upward only. If I ever make an arpg someday I may do it like this

[@sodapopinski8064]

Coming from a speed runner this is an interesting take. There's so many more options for speed running and routing in 1.14 than could ever exist in 1.0, creating a much bigger gap between the peeps who put the time in learning mechanics and practicing them vs newer speed runners. 1.0 would literally come down to rare/epic drops determining speed runs... even the little things like early mana on kill.

[@erikaxelsson757]

I think you have a solid point. However, even in 1.14 the best strategy eventually gets figured out, removing a lot of those options. At that point it too becomes mostly about random factors. So possibly it is at that point very similar to 1.0 from a speed running perspective? I am not a D2 player though, so feel free to explain further.

[@sodapopinski8064]

That's fair. I just think the added elements gives players more options on adapting strategies, such as what slimo pulled off this year. Which he couldn't have done without lots of map knowledge, mechanics, etc. Biggest thing really is the minion group xp vs having to kill and loot trash. Minion groups make for routing options and skipping content, instead of just "forward" Would it be fair to say it's more engaging to *watch* the choices of 1.14, even if 1.0 seems like more decision-making and adjusting constantly?

[@Jmdwolfy161]

What do you think of these "queues" hitting US east ladder atm?

[@Yurple88]

@John Wick 2010? i think you mean 2002.

[@Jmdwolfy161]

@John Wick Unfunded, lmfao they don't need to be "funded" to work the same as they have for almost 20 years. This is a recent change to how things are functioning. If they can change how they function to put in queue times, which have never happened at obviously higher populations than today, then they can fucking fix it too... "Buddy".

[@ahmadalsakka478]

I still have the manual guidance for diablo II 1.0 it shows the names of all creatures with a description for each one of them 😅

[@reue100]

are you also going to play the patch before LOD and the patch before mana potions were buyable?

[@incubi51]

I think not being able to buy mana potions makes sense. I never really felt mana/resource management was D2s strong point. Would love to see some D2 mods that make the game harder instead of just making it easier. I went back and played D1 recently and and no action RPG has really captured the difficulty, atmosphere and strain for resources as well as that game did.

[@sequestro692]

Sick video dude.

[@swagonmax]

The king has spoken!

[@gromsword6984]

If Diablo gets easier, we might end up getting a movie, which was once a video game in 1.0. And the new players are like:" Hey, I watched this awesome movie called Diablo...", while you responde:" Yea, I played it a couple of times back in 1.0."

[@user-cp9id1mj8b]

Llama can you please do a tutorial video how to get 1.0 running. I really want to play that patch and I can't be the only one (have the original cds btw)

[@yamchadragonball6983]

I remember the school yard talk about Diablo 2. Our metric for how powerful our casters where was their mana pool size. That was out E-peen haha. Playing the old versions kinda does confirm that mana and mana regen where really important :)

[@TheHellMod]

I often see u drink water from well while having shrine active. Did you know that it reduces the duration just like it does for curses?

[@TrollAxeThrower]

WHAT

[@kipz]

@@TrollAxeThrower makes sense if it does reduce curse duration because fade does the same

[@TrollAxeThrower]

@@kipz This is totally new information for me

[@Kozichi]

Holy shit

[@naduk84]

I had a great time watching your runs in Diablo 2 1.0. And this was great video. I agree with everything you said, especially about the balance between melee and caster characters. There's one point though I think "1.0" didn't get right: As mana was a rare and valuable item, casters would go too often to town ONLY to regenerate mana. It was a constant "open a portal, spend your mana, go into town, talk to healer, go back to map and repeat". That was a terrible gameplay design and they had to do something about it. What they chose was making mana potions a lot more accesible, when the solution IMO would be to make healers in town NOT regenerate mana.

[@Danlovar]

Another one not good design would be the repair and sell weapon that gives you more money, they could have done like a real RPG and make Charsi sell hammers to repair.

[@ben10pa]

When every resource is scarce, every resource matters, which forces you to extract the most value out of it. That's what was the most fun aspect, instead of just rushing by killing everything with unlimited Mana, you need to actually position your character so the skill you will use has the maximum impact. That's why before you shoot your frost nova you need to think and analyze and decide, instead of just tapping the hotkey whenever.

[@KTIIbot]

Hi M. Llama. Maybe it has been asked before. My question... how to play diablo 2 on battlenet on higher resolution than 800x600 ? May i ask your setup please . Thank you.

[@FrederikWeile]

I really want to re-experience Diablo 2 1.0.. Does anybody know how this is possible?

[@Tony211289]

Sure you can get all patches down to 1.08 on plugy. Maybe even lower, can't remember

[@netherza]

Back in the day, I felt that my summons de-spawning when out of screen, was just too much though, making the class unplayable (necro)

[@rudidekok]

I realised this when playing OG D2 so many years ago always thought the game was harder compared to looking at it now, when watching your play throughs of 1.0 I didn't feel alone and less nooby

[@Ubeogesh]

I wanna point out that a lot of what you are talking about is not really only about 1.0. It is about pre-1.10 Give 1.09 a try, it's a great middle ground between modern D2 and 1.0

[@KierzT]

Diablo09.com can help with that

[@BrettEPierce]

Yeah, 1.09 LOD is the best.

[@seth8858]

This was a great suggestion. I just booted up 1.09 (thank you D2SE!) and was delighted to see mana potions weren't at the vendors yet. I was going to try and get 1.0 working but this might scratch that itch.

[@sergeysmyshlyaev9716]

1.09 is too easy though.

[@bigstopowens]

@@sergeysmyshlyaev9716 i came to the comments to point out that 1.09 was the tipping point of the hard difficulty/fun playing. synergies killed the game for alot of people, and enigma just killed every class other than the pally. it really is the height of diablo 2s existence

[@kamehamehax99]

You should take note of some of these differences, hopefully with video clips to compare, and then see if Schaefer is willing to sit down again and discuss what he remembers about those changes. An example, you freaked when you saw the Merc could run in 1.0, but maybe was there a technical reason they took it out? It could be an interesting discussion of game design.

[@vb6427]

Indeed. Games are fun when there is a challenge to it. What's the point to play a game without any struggle or not much. You'r right the struggle is the fun part in the end.

[@matthewkoehn5242]

I play 1.0 when i don't have access to internet, on hardcore, and i agree with every thing you've said. I tried to skip stuff and have to farm and go into those random dungeons lol

[@luccamedeiros]

I completely agree. Harder and more meaningful experiences in games are the best, but they have to have a purpose. What I really liked about this analysis is that all the things that made V1.0 harder had a purpose to it, which makes the world richer.

[@superduperjew]

1.0 is extremely satisfying. I have the original big box diablo 2 v1.0 in MINT condition here. So good on my retro rig!

[@Lamiun]

No mana potions is exactly why a lot of sorcs invested 20 points into warmth! Good memories.

[@WylliamJudd]

I have had this intuition for a while that D4 will be the best when it's first released. It will be tough, it will take time to gain levels, individual fights with low level monsters will be challenging, and then slowly over time to please the players, things will get easier and easier and the focus will be put more and more on "endgame content".

[@stepoichi]

Can they make something like if ever you carelessly cast tp esp using it to escape, demons undead etc will follow through causing chaos in town? 🤔

[@aBanabis]

Hey MrLlama, do you know of a server where I can play version 1.04?

[@Dicktopus]

I found my old D2 CDs, printed at 2003. It's 1.0 😝

[@yasuchika]

Everything needs to be available in bite-sized chunks in the eyes of Blizzard now, I see no scenario where D4 becomes a difficult game. And slight critique: D3 was difficult at start but in all of the wrong ways.

[@jprec5174]

D3 wasn't difficult until you hit Act 2 inferno. The problem with vanilla d3 was that they tiered gear drops by Item levels like in World of Warcraft in inferno to where you needed rares from act 1 to do act 2 and rares from act 2 to do act 3 and by act 3 pretty much only shield barbs could survive it beyond characters with 1000$ in gear. It was pretty much impossible to do act 3 with act 1 inferno ilvl gear. Gear from the previous difficulties could not drop gear that was useful for inferno. Unlike in d2, Nightmare Meph was a incredibly valuable source for uniques that were great in hell. On the topic of uniques. Uniques were absolute dogshit in vanilla D3. They were utterly useless when they should have been ameans to bridge the gap from hell to inferno.

[@Erhogz]

Difficult achievements(I'm not about ingame "achievements" but any achievement during in life, game, hobby, etc) are more memorable and precious than easier ones.

[@Niscimble]

Like I mentioned in the sorc stream, modern games seem to have lost sight of the fact that in a video game, the journey IS the destination. Racing to the end game means that the game is over very quickly and you don't get to appreciate all of the effort they put in everything until then.

[@william421]

The fact that even beyond WoW classic you have an incredibly active Everquest Classic scene, it tells you that you're completely fucking right. Difficult is good. You don't need everything spoon fed to you.

[@alexandretremblay6242]

I never played Diablo 1 do you recommand me trying out or will I be disapointed? Also do you recommand mods for it so it can feel less outdated? Also could you make a video about Project Diablo 2? I finished Median XL and looking for new ways to play that masterpiece

[@Christawpher]

Diablo 1 is a timeless classic. I just played through it again because of this. for 1996 its damn good, but theres some annoying instances as a warrior chasing ever single ranged monster into a corner to kill them. Do rogue or Sorcerer.

[@kurzackd]

pretty sure that minions *did* give extra XP compared to their white (i.e. non-special) monster types...

[@akse]

Exactly my thoughts. Many times games come out a little rough but still solid and really challenging and engaging. Then some DLC or xpack arrives and the rough edges get smooth and things get added here and there.. Suddenly the difficulty disappears and things become less engaging and boring. Some examples from LoD: Party Bonus xp. Yes it made party playing more fun since the XP penalty was not so bad but on the other hand it allowed low levels to stand in cow and bloody foothills to leech XP. Didn't work in Classic Mercenary equippable with gear and all that. Well its nice addition in some ways but makes gameplay much easier. If we look at the struggles you had with all those monsters following.. get an Act2 with holy freeze merc and it would be soo easy. More items'n stuff.. more powerful items. Great in a way but makes the game easier. About mana potions and items and all that. I'm not sure but I feel like it was balanced for multiplayer. They definately left single player drops too low. I read that in 1 player game a monster has a 20% chance to drop some item. each player more is 20% more and it will cap out at 5 players to 90%. So already 3 player game should give you much more drops which means more mana potions too. It's also more XP so you progress easily to 25 or so till you hit Act4. Also about items. Shopping some good magic items is a thing in this patch early on. There are some pretty good ones. Just have to spend some time. And yes get gold .. gambling amazing rares is possible already at level 20+. Imbue quest also gives you amazing items. Best weapon stats can be imbued already at level 29. My first ever battle.net Barb I imbued a Lance at level 29 and it rolled 330 damage :)

[@jaysahup6563]

i never played 1.0 but very interesting how this got evolved. i only play single player classic and like to kill all and complete all quests.

[@Bacjuszx]

man I installed 1.00 but I cant launch it on win11 and I am losing my mind, doing xp compatibility, running in windowed mode for the launch properties, running as admin. Dang it!

[@marsmars8238]

Hell Duriel and Hefasto with critical strikes above 1000 are hilarious :)

[@Elchupanibres]

meh duriel is only hard on normal. "his dam charge attack" :D after u done him and have some gear hes a pussy

[@SomethingScotty]

Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 1.0 are the reasons why in any ARPG I play I always try to kill everything on my screen, regardless of if it's optimal or not. It's just so ingrained into me at this point. When Diablo 2 first came out I managed to get my hands on a copy the day it launched. I mean I was only like somewhere between 10 and 13 at the time, don't feel like doing the math atm. A co-worker of my mothers had sold her a copy that she had yoinked from her own son because it wasn't christian enough for him. But I played the ever-living hell out of it, and didn't even bother going on bnet until around the time of patch 1.05 when one of my friends at school said they had been playing the hell out of it too. It's not like today where everything auto-updates. If you wanted to update your game you had to either manually go looking for the update link, or in Diablo's case, connect to B.Net and then it would download one.

[@tsilb]

I also miss raising unlimited skeletons, but I do not miss them jamming up the doorways.

[@asbjrnfossmo1589]

First grind is pretty rough, but once you're capable of running the Cow King, you can re-run him infinitely. This was changed with patch 1.02 which added restrictions on the cow level. Also, RNG is not very well implemented until LoD, so you can often find chests etc which drop the same item every game, as long as you don't change the map or take a different route to reach said chest. Oh, and WW barb with rare pike, preferrably dropped as a failed unique, since it will normally just have 25 durability, but as failed unique it has 125 instead!

[@asbjrnfossmo1589]

And GL getting into the high 90's with you char... Highest I got is lvl 92 I think, and I grinded a LOT of champion urdars....

[@oguzcanoguz5977]

Hey lama, you keep doing these speedruns, but just until normal where you do not explore the broken skills and such. Just do broken skills build in 1.0, like a whirlwind barb until hell.

[@Unko-Q]

i just reinstalled my 1.00 cd. Gotta say... the no mana and difficulty (cause trying to use spells can be kinda annoyin wit no mana)... but im re-enjoyin all the broken mechanics and getting to play all the pre-nerf stuff (no cooldown frozen orb... gamblin uniques haha... and rekillable cow king who is droppin me lot of uniqs and a bunch of stamina pots 😀). Already gambled lennymo, tarn helm and hotspurs 🤣🤣🤣. Trynna get me soj and that uniq boneshield with mana per kill. My current weapon is laughable in 1.14d standards ... a magical wand of apprentice that has 24 mana . That mana feels like god gift to earth lols

[@asbjrnfossmo1589]

Cow king can't drop a unique which was already dropped that game, or is held anywhere by a character... BUT! The ground doesn't count, so you can bring your SoJ with you, drop it, then kill king, and he will drop another if he tries. Then just pick up both sojs. Holding unique items he usually drops can make him drop up to 5 rares. He always drops one magical item too.

[@fostena]

I still play LoD and Resurrected like I was in 1.0. Killing every monster, collecting every coin, picking up useless items and selling it to vendors, using as few potions as possible.

[@Tyrael66]

Scarcity is the best thing in D2.

[@guillaumebrasseur1648]

No mana pots and no insight Merc.... Ya it was hard back in the days..

[@Sagitta62]

Yeah I really hated when the Merc got stuck on something and if you didn't go back you get them they would vanish

[@Chris-cf1hs]

I've never been so early to a video where it released 3 seconds ago

[@chris5240]

Me too.

[@Chris-cf1hs]

@@chris5240 ah another chris

[@chris5240]

@@Chris-cf1hs There can only be one.

[@Onishiroi]

This strugling was my biggest problem in D3. It's now a game that you have to get out of your way to see any dificult. When I first played Diablo 1, was a game that really tested you mettle, when every death made me think about what went wrong and how to make better. Similar events happened in D2 at first. Then, slowly the game became more forgiving. Still a pretty game. D3 on other hand... could be a walking simulator.

[@TomBreazeal]

Yes! Great points :)

[@Ireland609]

People forget the times before runewords, skill synergies blood runs

[@jobob9299]

Oh I remember being a sorceress will no mana potions It stressed the hell out of me.

[@SebReaperGaming]

suddenly, Energy makes sense as a stat

[@jobob9299]

@@SebReaperGaming I know, I poured loads of points into Energy and warmth just to be able to fight for more than 30 seconds.

[@SelfmadeMS13]

Man back then I was duping so much...ive earned a small fortune

[@Exhorderx]

1.0 Normal playthroughs are super fun once in a while. However, it can get really tedious and grindy after you enter nightmare on most builds. XP gain is really slow in 1 player SSF mode and you end up just farming the bugged Cow King for loot or infinitely-spawning worms in act 4, which is when I start to lose interest. Some builds can just blaze through the whole thing tho, especially if you start trading and swapping items between your characters.

[@balrual1234]

Played barb 1.0. Was a blast.

[@xperience2k12]

The Point is, the older a game gets, the more people want something new, so they add tons of items, skill buffs, nerfs and more content and since balancing everything is a horrible thing, the games get easier to compete, at least if you go for the new stuff or playstyle. I personally like the way how Path of Exile does. It gives you at beginning a quite challenging road to act 10. Yeah, i know, there are skills and character combinations that really can do the content faster and smarter then others, but still its more challenging to get pass act 10 on Hardcore alive alone then doing it in Diablo 3 for example. I have a lot of fun playing ssf hc on PoE, cause you must make smart decisions and its always a challenge. In Diablo 2 LoD you reach quite fast a very stable playstyle and its less challenging after all. I hope they consider how many people love to watch those streams where people failed on diablo 3 due to many heavy mechanics at the beginning, like immortal minions, enrage timer or heavy poison damage. I remember how hard playing hardcore on diablo 3 was. I still remember those cool times. Since they added this second life passive and damage boosts, the game is a joke today. Funny for some days but then you are asking yourself, wtf i am doing here. Hope Diablo 4 gets the right point to be more challenging then diablo 3 and looks how much fun a game makes if its hard as nuts.

[@dons9074]

i started d2 on 1.0 this was to test game before i saved up to buy from target at age 9 im 31 now