What do Catholics and Orthodox Think of Each Other?

Useful Charts video on the Catholic and Orthodox Family tree: • History of Roman Catho...
00:00 Introduction
01:10 What Catholics Think of Orthodox
07:52 What Orthodox Think of Catholics

[@ReadyToHarvest]

Here's the Useful Charts video on the Catholic and Orthodox Family tree: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHWvoXWFj7aWl6M

[@revinhatol]

*Thanks for the analysis!*

[@essafats5728]

​@@silassutnga5072 and yet without the Catholic Church the rest of Christianity, with all it's disunification, endless splintering, fragmenting, and fracturing, will quickly fall to Islam / secularism / modernism.

[@TheLeonhamm]

Ah! good old Anglicanism, it infects even non-English church Anglo-Saxon Protestant evolutionary divergence ideas. It isn't true, however; Rome and New Rome, even Third Rome and counter-Romes, are not branches of one original Church - they are that Church, in root, trunk, branch, bud and fruit (however knarled, tangled, and shooting off in various directions as they may be; for such is a living tree, especially a rather old yet thriving one). Gnostics and Montanists, Donatists and Cathars, Lutherans and Pentecost-revived Adventist Methodical Baptistised Calvinism, California-spiritualistism and D-I-Y undenominatedism might occasionally look like that tree yet they are not part of it, neither of new-sprung root nor bowed-down re-rooted branch; Anglicans and Old Catholics do like to imagine themselves as part of the tree, not a sprig fresh-cut by man's hand and replanted as new .. but that is a different devolutionary map to trace. ;o)

[@MarcillaSmith]

​@@silassutnga5072yes, very shameful. Shall we say that the Council of Nicaea was protestant against Arius? The madness is self-evident to anyone willing to see it.

[@kennethklein6213]

How about explaining the differences in Russian Orthodox between the mainstream and the schism that Doestoevskey wrote so favorably of in the Brothers Karamozov and The Idiot.

[@michaelpeeler7030]

I’m a Catholic, studying in Greece; nearly every Orthodox parishioner I have met and spoken with has been extremely happy to have me at the liturgy, usually saying something along the lines of “we are brothers!” Out of respect for their bishops, I have of course declined to receive the Eucharist from their churches, but on many occasions they are incredibly eager to share the antidoron with me. It’s been lovely getting to meet many Orthodox parishioners here, and I pray that through Christ unity may one day return between the See of Peter and the Orthodox.

[@prkp7248]

I think that it is something different whencit comes to United States - among those who are members of Latin Church or Orthodox Church are many who conversed from protestantism and did that because of socio-political idea, more than faith. Because of that, they tend to be in "crusader mode" and look for conflicts, fights and disagreements. They are Christian version of those teenagers that are very into Dawkins and other "new atheist". In Europe, its different, as far as I can see. Of course we have fanboys of FSSPX here, but especially after Rusian Church became schizmatic (with KGB Agent Cyril on top) , our contacts are better. Although in post-soviet countries local orthodox churches are still filled with ex-communist agents - for example in Poland top patriarch of Polish Autocephalic Orthodox Church Sawa (who collaborated with communist goverment in Poland) still is bog fan of Moscow and Cyril, even after Cyril made all those claims about diabolic nature of Ukraine and holy war, Sawa decided to send him congratulation letter filled with Compliments.

[@tr1084]

Maybe I'm forgetting the current arrangement, but isn't it possible to receive with special permission from the Orthodox bishop and your own bishop? That said, I don't know how likely they are to say yes and maybe you already tried.

[@D.S.handle]

Michael, would you expect the Orthodox perishers being against you going to their church? I think that them being inviting is just a basic human decency, which is even more to be expected when it comes to the people that are interested in their creed.

[@michaelpeeler7030]

@@tr1084 As far as my (limited) research from Catholic sources has shown, it’s generally assumed that Orthodox bishops will not allow Catholics to receive the Eucharist. I’m lucky to be based out of Thessaloniki, and am only about 20 minutes from the Catholic Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception, so I haven’t necessarily put much effort into investigating if there are ways for me to receive in an Orthodox Church, if necessary. You could well be right.

[@tr1084]

@@michaelpeeler7030 You're probably right. I just finished the video and seems that most if not all Orthodox bishops will say no. That said, since you're close to a Catholic cathedral, you'll almost definitely be told no since you have access to the sacraments there. Anyways, enjoy your time there! I used to visit Orthodox parishes as a curious baptist and in a roundabout way it lead me to becoming Catholic.

[@UsefulCharts]

Super happy to have collabed with you today!

[@ReadyToHarvest]

Thanks, Matt!

[@jeremyturner4402]

@@ReadyToHarvest So cool! I enjoy both of your channels a lot.

[@PrimroseFrost]

This is such a cool collaboration! Thank you for doing it!

[@turingmachine4617]

Great job, both of you. As a former Catholic who used to attend OCA liturgies in Alaska- now a lapsed Buddhist 😊 - it was like Old Home Week to me I find all this history, sociology, and comparative theology fascinating.

[@ParksLover]

As a fan of both of your channels, I'm glad to see a collab.

[@puggrad96]

As a Catholic priest, I can say that you both correctly express the official teaching of the Catholic Church and communicated my experience with Orthodoxy. I pray that we all may be one as Christ prayed at the Last Supper.

[@Caesar_Americanus]

I grew up Baptist left then was in a very strict Antiochian Orthodox Church my wife and I attended for years and we're left catechumens we had a child on the way with no secure will of Baptism we left and became apart of the Roman Catholic Church we as a family were confirmed and my daughter was baptized on the third Sunday of advent this past year.

[@EricAlHarb]

I’m Orthodox, I grew up in the middle eastern church. It is very common for us to intercommune due to marriage. After all it would be greater sin to not permit the married couple to not worship together and sunder that union. The priests exercise oeconomia to loose the canon forbidding the Eucharist to a Melkite or Maronite and a Syriac oriental orthodox. In that particular jurisdiction at the grass roots level and due to persecution the schisms are maintained in name but not in practice. The concern of course is upsetting the monks athos or the Copts. I have even attended concelebrated Divine Liturgies. But that’s really uncommon.

[@anunpopularstance]

@Savage Gentleman I'm sorry. If you read your Bible there's no way you'd see Catholicism is anything other than Goddess worshipping, traditional based vain repetitions. The argument of baptism alone is called into question when you view the eunuch story. An infant CANNOT understand what faith in Christ means.

[@Caesar_Americanus]

@@anunpopularstance You obviously don’t read yours as faith alone is wrong or scripture alone. I left the Protestants because I actually read the Bible without needing the dance around excuses. I became interested because of the 1,500 years of history don’t discuss. I would like to discuss this further but I already know I’m talking to an empty shell with no brain a parasite that ruins Christianity in America and especially in England.

[@Caesar_Americanus]

@@EricAlHarb The Divine Liturgy is something else my Priest was from Syria but we were Antiochian Orthodox but was in Kansas City and I know other other Orthodox traditions were welcome but we

[@Kevnadian]

I was raised Jehovah Witness, then at the age of 15 I became agnostic. 10 years later thank God I am Orthodox

[@sihtnaelkk2187]

Great to hear my friend.. Let me ask how did you manage this? It takes great courage.. Did you have a friend, a relative, a positive influence by someone?

[@thetreatment498]

Glad you walked your path. But the struggle in life doesn't finish until the very end! Enjoy your life and work for it, fellow orthodox friend.

[@henrytobar7077]

SAME! Raised JW, at age 15 agnostic and then baptized Roman Catholic after a long lengthy journey of finding my faith again

[@Kevnadian]

@@sihtnaelkk2187 my wife's mother one day said "there's an orthodox church you should check it out one day" and thus my journey began.

[@Kevnadian]

@@henrytobar7077 so glad to hear! It's unfortunate in my experience most people who leave JW end up becoming angry atheists. I have empathy for them. It's a crazy experience when you realize your whole belief system since childhood was a lie.

[@anthonyn.7379]

I’m part of the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch and I and my family have always had a positive view of Catholics. Before my parents moved from Lebanon to the US, they asked their local Orthodox priest where they should go if there isn’t an Orthodox Church nearby, and he said, “Oh, then just go to a Catholic Church!” After living in the US for several years, we soon moved to an area where the closest Orthodox Church was really far away, and we ended up attending a Catholic Church. All throughout the ten years there, neither the priest nor the Catholics there had any problem with us attending mass. I even asked my dad if he believes that Catholics are Christians, and he said “Of course they are!” He knew that the Eastern Orthodox officially believe that they’re the ‘One True Church,’ but he said he personally doesn’t believe this.

[@alxdava2004]

Because he's just a shallow christian. If he was in India or with a tribe in Amazonia he would think the same thing. He doesn't know the differences and doesn't care because he doesn't live a pure Orthodox life.

[@prometheus5770]

@@alxdava2004were you really born in 2004? 😂😂😂

[@SanctusPaulus1962]

​@@alxdava2004 No one cares about you.

[@johnobeid67]

@anthonyn.7379 that is a very touching story. My mum is from Syria and she says exactly the same thing. She said that in her town, there is a lot of intermingling amongst the Catholic (melkites) and the Orthodox (Antiochian Greek) churches. They have intercommunion and they intermarry and they also have the same date for Pascha. I find it is usually only the Russian Orthodox (and those within its sphere) and some of the Greek churches who are really rigid in their anti-Catholic stance. Frankly I find the whole schism thing scandalous and very sad. I am Catholic and I love the Orthodox and the Byzantine liturgy and would happily attend an Orthodox Church DL. Am I missing something?

[@baldwinthefourth4098]

I am a Catholic and I have deep respect for the Orthodox Church.

[@Dominio-Cattolico]

I feel like I saw you somewhere before.. .

[@jasonchow6475]

@@Dominio-Cattolico From the movie Kingdom of Heaven

[@francesbernard2445]

Me too. I refuse to believe any of the only tabloid like gossip being spread around in main stream media about any of the Orthodox worship rites.

[@Garry_Combine]

Same, the Orthobros are brothers. The apostolic churches are full on brothers in Christ. I respect all of them (actual apostolic churches, not Protestants that claim to be)

[@Garry_Combine]

I still see Prots as brothers, but not in the same way

[@iGamezRo]

I'm Romanian Orthodox (and very religious) and I have a very positive opinion of the Catholic Church. When I'm on a trip and I see a Catholic Church I go inside it, buy an Icon, have a talk with the Priest, whatever. I believe that our Churches should re-unite and leave petty differences aside. If we are to complete Christ's vision we need to be united and not divided.

[@theodemirweltmann9673]

You want to unite with heretics and those who left Christ long ago. You are a bad orthodox. The Catholics barbarously and savagely plundered and severely damaged Constantinople, not to mention the basic differences.

[@shaovillas7703]

Yeah you are right brother Church can't save us only Jesus christ can do that.

[@michaelmicek]

​@@shaovillas7703the Church is Christ's body; it's how he accomplishes his purpose in the world.

[@shaovillas7703]

@@michaelmicek there is no catholic church or orthodox church in the time of jesus I only believe that Jesus is the only way to god the father, to go to heaven, he is the church that every people need to go to heaven

[@Perririri]

Hristos a înviat!

[@ZZZELCH]

Remarkably well done. -An Orthodox brother in Christ.

[@philipgligorov5848]

As baptized in orthodox church and raised in a catholic church (eastern catholic) I want to warn you brother, that your churches in my country are empty. People never go on sunday on church (I don't even know one, and all my friends are orthodox), and the church is very corrupt which is one of the reasons people don't go anymore. Big part of the clergy of the church is anti-catholic but they still send students from time to time to study in Rome on eastern catholic colleges, they are being hypocrites. If you read this, I ask from you to fight against this, because it tears my heart seing the orthodox church in this condition. Me, which saw both sides from very upclose, I objectively say that the catholica are right in their perspective of the closeness of the orthodox church. Orthodox are influenced by the hate in their proclamation of the perspective of the Roman Catholic church (and the other catholic churches).

[@jrexx2841]

Catholics and Orthodox are children of God through Christ. ✝️☦️

[@urosopacic1403]

@@drjanitor3747 your christ is antichrist

[@urosopacic1403]

@@drjanitor3747 you look more like sect than like religion

[@stelios5314]

​@@drjanitor3747 Or the Opposite happened...

[@skimilym]

@readytoharvest Roman Catholic here. You continue to amaze me with your precision and charity with traditions that are not your own. This is an incredibly fraught conversation filled with nuance and you mastered it wonderfully. Bravo!!

[@Call_Upon_YAH]

Be it known: Through the Holy Spirit, God has put it on me to preach to those lost in the devil's deceit! Hear me when I say, ye that are Catholic have been deceived and know not God. Ye worship Mary, praying to her; when God tells his to worship none other than him. It is idolatry. Catholicism has its own Bible and teachings, which are blasphemous to the word of God: the Holy Bible. As ye follow the teachings of man and not God; ye hear the pope, but not Jesus, yet ye claim to be his disciples! These are but a few things I named ye dwell within; there are many more. I tell you now to repent of your sins, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit upon asking the Father! There are *NO* sub-divisions of Christianity. You're either a disciple of Christ or not. A Christian is someone who follows God's word, not a religion. Who obey the Father and follow his will; not man's nor their own heart's. Unless you keep Jesus' commandments, think not the Holy Spirit will dwell within you! They who heed this message and did what was stated with an open heart to God... Read the Holy Bible (KJV) daily and every time before you read, pray to the Father and ask: "Lord I ask that you give me understanding of your word, that I interpret it the way you want me to, and none of my own. I ask you in Jesus' name, amen." Revelation 22:8-9 KJV 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. Acts 2:38 KJV 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Luke 11:13 KJV 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? John 14:21-24 KJV 21 *He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.* 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, *If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.* 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and *the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.* 3 John 1:11 KJV 11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. *He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.* 1 John 3:6-10 KJV 6 *Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.* 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: *he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.* 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 *Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.* 10 *In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,* neither he that loveth not his brother.

[@dougy6237]

"Roman Catholic" is a perjorative term coined by English Protestants. They sought to rob English Catholics of the name Catholic, so they invented a false dichotomy of English Catholics(Protestants) and Roman Catholics (loyal Catholics). Similar terms included Papist, Romanists, Idolators, etc. The Catholic Church in its official documents never uses "Roman Catholic". The term is only really known in the English speaking world, except for more recently when Orthodox have sought its use in their polemics. The term grew into the curious Roman Catholicism to refer to the faith of Catholics. Many Protestants of course, cannot bring themselves to refer to Catholics without using the perjorative Roman Catholic. Some Catholics have adopted the term in personal parlance, not realising the perjorative origin and theological error the term generates. In summary, there is simply the Catholic Church, and with in it there is the Roman Church or Latin Churh, and the various Eastern Catholic Churches. Peace be with your spirit.

[@highup7]

I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic Church. I attended Catholic school in my twelve years of school. I'm no longer Catholic but I'm happy with the Church and denomination with the Church that I joined. I was an altar boy in the Catholic Church during the years that the Mass was in Latin. I had to learn that Latin as a altar boy. I think that the reason that I left the Catholic Church was because I had too much Catholic during my young years. I can't stand it when Catholic's give money to the Church to have a Mass said to help the poor souls in purgatory. Purgatory is not mentioned in the bible and I think that the Catholic Church made purgatory so they could get money from the people. In my Catholic teaching I heard a lot about Limbo. Limbo was a place that unbaptized babies went. They told us that the babies in Limbo were happy but they will never see the face of God. About twelve years ago the Catholic Church did away with Limbo. I wonder what happened to the unbaptized babies. I also think that God never put people in hell for knowingly eating meat on Friday.

[@knightshade2654]

I occasionally go to the club meetings for my university’s Orthodox club, and they are incredibly welcoming to a learning Catholic such as myself.

[@isaacmay8014]

The Orthodox Churches I have attended have been extremely welcoming to Catholic and Protestant converts. I was very lucky to find Orthodox churches that offer the divine liturgy in English.

[@Call_Upon_YAH]

Let it be known to all: Through the Holy Spirit, God has put it on me to preach to those lost in the devil's deceit! Hear me when I say, ye that are Catholic have been deceived and know not God. Ye worship Mary, praying to her; when God tells his to worship none other than him. It is idolatry. Catholicism has its own Bible and teachings, which are blasphemous to the word of God: the Holy Bible. As ye follow the teachings of man and not God; ye hear the pope, but not Jesus, yet ye claim to be his disciples! These are but a few things I named ye dwell within; there are many more. I tell you now to repent of your sins, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit upon asking the Father! There are *NO* sub-divisions of Christianity. You're either a disciple of Christ or not. A Christian is someone who follows God's word, not a religion. Who obey the Father and follow his will; not man's nor their own heart's. Unless you keep Jesus' commandments, think not the Holy Spirit will dwell within you! They who heed this message and did what was stated with an open heart to God... Read the Holy Bible (KJV) daily and every time before you read, pray to the Father and ask: "Lord I ask that you give me understanding of your word, that I interpret it the way you want me to, and none of my own. I ask you in Jesus' name, amen." Revelation 22:8-9 KJV 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. Acts 2:38 KJV 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Luke 11:13 KJV 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? John 14:21-24 KJV 21 *He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.* 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, *If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.* 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and *the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.* 3 John 1:11 KJV 11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. *He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.* 1 John 3:6-10 KJV 6 *Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.* 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: *he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.* 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 *Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.* 10 *In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,* neither he that loveth not his brother.

[@Krakondack]

Christians who truly believe can't afford not to be welcoming to each other. But ecclesial unity is impossible, with the hardened positions on all sides. The worst arguments I've experienced on KZbin discussions pertain to Christian teachings.

[@adjesumpermariam6515]

Are you considering conversion? If so, don’t.

[@tcutshaw]

Don't listen to the guy above me! As a former atheist, converting to Orthodoxy was the best decision I ever made.

[@Michael-heavenly]

My mom is Catholic and my dad is Orthodox- you can only imagine what my upbringing has been like 😂🙈💖

[@Michael-heavenly]

@This Apple Judges you mean Mama Mary ? .. of course 💞

[@Michael-heavenly]

@This Apple Judges go where exactly ? I only wish I could love her the same way Christ does, in that we all fall short 😕

[@johnalden5821]

Lots of wine. . .

[@Michael-heavenly]

@@johnalden5821 haha that’s actually accurate - homemade with love

[@kathrynmolesa1641]

Schizophrenic

[@dte8561]

I'm Catholic and I love the Orthodox Church. They have a beautiful tradition.

[@electric336]

Do you believe the Catholic church is infallible?

[@chrismott4248]

@@electric336 I am Catholic but I find it somewhat hard to argue for papal infallibility and that the church is "infallible". I find myself liking orthodoxy more but its hard to find a community as there arent many churches and they are highly monocultural. This is why I prefer Catholicism which keeps to a more universalist view.

[@electric336]

@@chrismott4248 Good take. I'm a Lutheran (LCMS), so liturgically very similar to Catholic Mass, but theologically closer to Orthodox. I never understood how the Catholic church can genuinely call themselves infallible when they've changed many of their teachings over the years. Because truth is persistent and doesn't change with the times.

[@chrismott4248]

@ElectroTech At the end of the day, it's not a big problem that there are so many differences. I can't see the God of the universe being mad that someone was a Orthodox Christian or a Baptist rather than being a Catholic. Just believe in the creed, that is all we need to share in the gift of salvation.

[@electric336]

@@chrismott4248 I agree, brother. Peace be with you✝

[@mournblade1066]

I mentioned this on another video on this channel, but it's worth repeating: I used to work at a Franciscan university. I told one of the Franciscan priests that I was a lifelong Roman Catholic, but I admittedly did not know much about the Orthodox Churches. I asked him what the difference was, and he replied, "Well, the Catholics think they're right, and the Orthodox KNOW THEY'RE right." I would love to see full reuinification within my lifetime.

[@dougy6237]

"Roman Catholic" is a perjorative term coined by English Protestants. They sought to rob English Catholics of the name Catholic, so they invented a false dichotomy of English Catholics(Protestants) and Roman Catholics (loyal Catholics). Similar terms included Papist, Romanists, Idolators, etc. The Catholic Church in its official documents never uses "Roman Catholic". The term is only really known in the English speaking world, except for more recently when Orthodox have sought its use in their polemics. The term grew into the curious Roman Catholicism to refer to the faith of Catholics. Many Protestants of course, cannot bring themselves to refer to Catholics without using the perjorative Roman Catholic. Some Catholics have adopted the term in personal parlance, not realising the perjorative origin and theological error the term generates. In summary, there is simply the Catholic Church, and with in it there is the Roman Church or Latin Churh, and the various Eastern Catholic Churches. Peace be with your spirit.

[@MarcillaSmith]

As a Catholic, I know _I_ am wrong, but I _confess_ the Church is infallible.

[@dougy6237]

@@MarcillaSmith The Church teaches infallibly because Christ promised it would teach his truth in his name. Truth is infallible by nature. The church contains infallible men but the church is infallible in its teaching. Similarly, God wrote Scripture through fallible men

[@roberteaston6413]

@@MarcillaSmith I live in Edmonton. Western Canada has a lot of Ukrainians. Many of them have told me that there is no difference between Ukrainian Orthodox and Ukrainian Catholic. Part of that may be due to the fact when Stalin ruled he forced the Ukrainian Catholics and Ukrainian Orthodox to be one church. Also a lot of Ukrainians put being Ukrainian first and being religious second. When the Ukrainian Catholic was allowed into the Roman Catholic Church it was with agreement that they could retain married priests. When Ukrainians came to Western Canada beginning in the 1890's Rome said that concession only applied to priests ordained in the Ukraine. Some Ukrainian Canadians seeking ordination would fly to the Ukraine to get ordained. They would fly back to Canada to get married. That is no longer allowed. When Canada was being settled some of the worst feuding was among Catholics. French Canadian Catholics wanted Catholic schools to be French speaking. Irish Catholics, and other Catholics, wanted Catholic schools to be English speaking. Growing up in the 1960's I knew a lot of ethnic Catholics resented the fact the French was an official language and therefore protected. Some of the people that were the most anti-French were ethnic Catholics from Eastern and Southern Europe. Today Filipino immigrants are keeping a lot of Catholic churches alive.

[@MarcillaSmith]

@@roberteaston6413 That's a shame. I prefer the ways the Church upholds diversity of tradition, such as with the liturgies of the Eastern Catholics and Anglo-Catholics. Our parish in NC has two Masses in Spanish every weekend, as well as a daily Mass in Spanish.

[@lukea.907]

As a conservative Roman Catholic I must say that the way you presented the Church's positions on matters of faith and its relationship to the Orthadox and other communities was some of the most accurate one can hope to run into online. I've watched your other videos and I feel you are quite adept at presenting these complex and sometimes controversial matters.

[@bibekjung7404]

Who is complete God? Iyov 36:5 - Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB) See, El is Kabir, and despiseth, not any; He is Kabir in ko’ach lev (strength of understanding). Translation: Supreme God is Kabir, but despises no one. He is Kabir, and firm in his purpose. In all Bible translations, the word Kabir has been translated as "Mighty" or "Great" whereas Kabir is the original name of Supreme God. Conclusion: This verse of the Bible proves that Kabir is Complete God. The one who worships God Kabir by taking initiation from the complete saint sent by him gets complete salvation. After attaining salvation that souls rest in peace in the eternal abode Satlok forever. The throne of God is in Satlok. God Kabir met Jesus and took his soul to Satlok. On their way, God Kabir made him see his ancestors David, Moses, Abraham, etc. in the Pitra Lokas. Then God took him to Satlok😊😊

[@holdenedwards8506]

I’m a Catholic, and I love my Orthodox Brothers and Sisters and have lots of respect for them.

[@JohnG-gd8yv]

Theosis.

[@LorenzoMasterConnector]

As a Catholic I have never heard another Catholic talk bad about Orthodox. I’ve heard many say “we love them and pray we can unite.” However, when I attend Orthodox churches I hear many attacking the Catholics and many stating we will NEVER unite and how we’re demonic. But there are a few people in the Orthodox Church who have said the split is nonsense. It’s mostly the young zealous converts that are aggressive to Catholics.

[@glennmartin802]

Well theologically Catholics have a broken understanding of what reunification would look like. If you believe unity is the pope returning to his original status as a prestigious Bishop equal to the others within a conciliary structure then we want the same thing. If you think the Orthodox church should submit to the sovereignty of the pope then "never" is the correct answer.

[@LorenzoMasterConnector]

@@glennmartin802 😂😂😂 Orthodoxy is Catholicism with pride. Submit to the pope

[@glennmartin802]

@LorenzoMasterConnector killer argument, but nah, I don't wanna get sent to hell and have my children molested.

[@elleanna5869]

@@glennmartin802 oh bro nobody curses like Orthodox priests and of they molest your children you just won't know it 😁

[@elleanna5869]

@@LorenzoMasterConnector as a Nigerian Roman Catholic myself, living in Europe - "never" is most likely to happen about revoking the schism, "very close" is the mutual acceptance as Catholics with already 99℅ in common (for beliefs, the ethnic burden is another conversation and heavily on the Ortho-side, I can say that having our officially aknowledged liturgy - the Congo rite- and African saints , also recents , help tremendously to unite and fit with Roman Catholics all over the world ) For the Anglosphere, the issue is still different, they are so exhausted with wokism , correctness, race and gender that they will end up on everything terribly, I say terribly, ethnic and conservative. Just cycles. Orthodoxy is very palatable for its hate of papacy, but everything, from Islam to Judaism to Neo paganism in their most radical, ethnic and conservative shapes, will do. Interesting times, we'll see and persist ad maiorem Dei gloriam😁🙏🏾❤️

[@Adam-fj9px]

Another excellent video Josh, and you're exactly right, many Catholics like myself have nothing but love for the orthodox, and many orthodox I know reciprocate that

[@fluffysheap]

What do Catholics and Orthodox think of each other? "That guy has a funny hat" 😅 Super happy to see a collaboration with UsefulCharts, two great channels dedicated to objectivity

[@Subsidiarity3]

I've always wanted to have a silly hat competition with competitors from the military, academia, and the clergy. Not sure who would win.

[@ElasticGiraffe]

@@Subsidiarity3 I'm Orthodox, but the Swiss Guard wins in all categories.

[@johnbutler4631]

That's hilarious!

[@reginabillotti]

@@ElasticGiraffe The Swiss Guard just wear a simple beret. They wouldn't win a silly hat competition. Now, the King's Guard, OTOH, might be contenders.

[@Poodle_Gun]

whoosh

[@Subsidiarity3]

I'm in Toronto and work for an Orthodox institution (we mostly serve poor people, there's a parish also). There are many converts to Orthodoxy attending the parish and working with me here. I'm Roman Catholic, but I regularly attend the prayers and some of the Divine Liturgies (no communion), though I have a Sunday Catholic parish. Many of my fellow employees aren't Orthodox or even churched. But the prayer, the liturgy, the tradition are at the core of what we do and it makes the work we do so much richer. I feel very much at home there in that respect. They sing the "Salve Regina" at Compline, possibly because there's a fair contingent of Romanians. Myself and some of the Orthodox staff tease each other over our differences, but we are all disciples of Christ, serving Him in the poor and praying together as we can. And the chapel is a beautiful space very conducive to prayer.

[@louofm1]

I am Orthodox and married a roman Catholic, who converted to the Orthodox faith before we were married many years ago. Our children were raised Orthodox but attend a Catholic school. We live near an inner city in Michigan. Our Orthodox diocese often works with a local Catholic charity organization which helps feed the poor. Over the years, I have attended many Catholic services, with my in laws and my wife's family. While we are regularly.practicing Orthodox Christians, I definitely believe that both faiths are followers of the truth. I also believe that anyone who follows the Lord will be brought into his kingdom. God loves us all. However, it is only for He to decide who will join Him in his kingdom.

[@alxdava2004]

​@@louofm1both followers of truth?! Then you don't know your religion very well. While I have nothing against people, when it comes to dogma and TRUTH then you should understand that catholicism is heresy. They've changed a lot of things just for power and control in Rome. All their history is about power, control and money. Nothing else.

[@MenwithHill]

So great to see the collaboration happened, wonderful work !

[@St.MartinofToursPrayToGodForUs]

Wow, I am blown away about how well done this was! You are absolutely right about the differences in opinion among Catholics and Orthodox about one another. Very well done!

[@traceyedson9652]

Your nuance in summaries amazes me. You handle terms well & correctly, and know how to find broad yet mainstream opinion & conviction. I’m EO, and impressed with your work.

[@jimwalsh8781]

you give the best summaries of the Catholic teaches. I really appreciate that. Keep up the good work.

[@shannyyymae]

Great video indeed ! Iwent straight here after watching usefulcharts. I don't regret renewing my youtube channel and stumbled upon these videos. As a Catholic that is often asked of how I view our brothers and sisters in the Orthodox. I neither hate nor despise them. I love them and you know I just can't imagine having such a heavy heart and way of thinking to the other. Thus I do always pray for the peace and unity one day among Christians , among our Churches. God Bless to all of us!🙏❤️

[@bojanbabovic111]

There's no Unity with Catholics pagan Heretics

[@tigger55100]

You did a great and fabulous job in explaining the similarities and differences between Roman and Eastern Orthodox. It was a lot to take in, but I will probably rewatch the video.

[@Ejohnd1]

Amazing amount of information in a short video. Thank you. Keep up the excellent work. Blessings!

[@vitatibasile3910]

Very very happy to have gone through this video. Thanks for this brother.

[@jeremyallen3498]

Very cool you two collaborated.

[@lsd8497]

Very informative video. I'm an orthodox, I feel all christians should document themselves on the Sepulture church on orthodox Easter. Plus, to me, it's the ancient vibe that I love. Having said that, a catholic is a christian exactly like me and I can't speak much about religious doctrine. I enter in catholic churches, I pray to catholic saints and I love them for what they've been through.

[@davidyess1]

As usual, you have provided a highly informative and much appreciated video, for which I thank you.

[@shawncalderon4950]

I always enjoy your videos! The largest missionary organization in the world, Gospel For Asia (GFA), has transitioned from Protestant to Orthodox. I would love to see you put together a video regarding their Protestant origins and Orthodox conversion! Thanks for always doing a tremendous job!

[@ReadyToHarvest]

I have begun a video on them a year ago (Particularly on Believers Eastern Church) but was unable to find certain key information. I contacted them through several ways, even tried to connect with their ministers on facebook but could not find anyone who would give me the information I needed. Eventually I will try again.

[@St.MartinofToursPrayToGodForUs]

The Believer's Eastern Church is not Orthodox in doctrine or ecclesiology. But, from an external view, based on aesthetics they, look Orthodox. It would be wonderful if they joined communion with the Orthodox church.

[@fozzzyyy]

Was great to see you and useful charts upload at the same time, these two channels have really scratched am itch in learning about religion

[@Awesomefulrific]

I'm so excited to see this collaboration! I am not religious, but have greatly enjoyed your channel to get to know more about the people around me. The Useful Charts series on Who wrote the bible is also one of my favorites of all time. Keep up the great work!

[@ChrisPro930]

Thank you! I literally asked for this on the last video

[@jessica3285]

OMG I follow both of you I noticed that you uploaded similarly And I just heard the intro OO something I didn't know I need in 2023 You too guys have truly the best unproblematic fruitful channels. I wish you to the best Thank for the effort so far!!

[@fr.barryschoonbaert3844]

Very well done! Thank You!

[@mekoharley99]

I am catholic in Tirana, Albania and I love to visit the orthodox cathedral here is Tirana which is amazing.

[@Adam-fj9px]

Are you part of the Albanian catholic church or the Latin church?

[@kupo871]

Thank you!! Would love more information on this topic

[@gazoontight]

This may be the most informative video that you have made. Thank you.

[@leahhathaway2796]

You are amazing! Thank you this video!

[@jg2072]

Ready to Harvest I so appreciate your discussion. As a person raised Catholic for 40+ years I come to a crossroads in my faith. I appreciate your discussions. Please pray for me.

[@jeannine1739]

Praying that the Lord lead you exactly where He wants you. :)

[@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960]

I will. Be careful to not let current politics influence your informed theological decision, may the holy spirit guide you

[@FireEverLiving]

When I saw UsefulCharts' first denomination video, I immediately thought about your video on the problems with charting denominations. Nice to see you working together.

[@yuckal]

This was a fantastic video, thanks mate! :) God bless you.

[@pnwoutdoorlife]

Your videos are a tremendous joy to watch. Thank you. Imagine a world before KZbin and you had to parce the differences and history of it all on your own pre internet. Would be a lifelong effort. You help make it much faster.

[@SusanIsaacArt]

I'm Orthodox and I'm married to a Catholic and we both participate in both churches and receive the communion in both churches. I pray we be united once again ❤❤

[@Northerner-NotADoctor]

Catholics pray to God: "forgive us our sins and bring us to unity", in the same place in liturgy Orthodox pray to God: "forgive other Christians their sins and bring us to unity".

[@Tornadospeed10]

@@Northerner-NotADoctorah yes what a great Catholic to come on here and blatantly lie 😂

[@Northerner-NotADoctor]

@@Tornadospeed10 That's what I heard during the Orthodox liturgy I listened to. That's my report, not a lie.

[@Northerner-NotADoctor]

@@Tornadospeed10 And tbh. I think it is beautifull from both sides, - from Catholic side that we know that changing the liturgy and excommunicating others while still calling them "orthodox" is obviously a sin. - from Orthodox side that they ask God for forgiveness for their brothers which means they understand the necessity behind the Catholic move 1000 years ago.

[@Tornadospeed10]

@@Northerner-NotADoctor I just really don’t know what you’re talking about tbh. The creed is exactly the same as it always has been. The only thing I can think of is the brief part where the priest has names of people family members requested we pray for during the liturgy but I have never once heard the creed or any prayer with the implication you’re talking about. Edit: unless I’m not fully understanding what you’re saying which is possible

[@juandelrosario-medina7340]

You are absolutely amazing in your precision!

[@wesleyfortney2339]

Great work, it is very much appreciated.

[@robertojrantonio3443]

Protestant: Are you friends? Catholics: Yes! 😊 Orthodox: No! 😡

[@Giant_Meteor]

Orthodox, here. Yes, we are friends. No, the theological differences are not small. Funny caricature, though.

[@monolith94]

As an orthodox, I’d reply “sometimes…”

[@isoldam]

@@Giant_Meteor The theological differences are small. The Orthodox Egos are large.

[@Giant_Meteor]

@@isoldam The difference between two plus two equals four, and two plus two equals four and one eighth are small. But one is true, and one is false. The mathematician who insists on the former does not do so on account of ego.

[@SeriouslyAwesome]

Catholics added to the faith and Protestants removed from it. That being said, Protestantism in its original form is probably closer to Orthodoxy that RCC

[@RestingJudge]

We get along quite well in my experience. I was married last year in the Catholic Church and we had our reception in the local Orthodox parish hall. In heavily protestant areas we find we have a lot more in common than not.

[@shaovillas7703]

Still we all Christians who believe in jesus

[@SanctusPaulus1962]

​@@shaovillas7703 That's the main thing. With the rise of atheism and Islam today, we need to put our differences aside and fight together as simply "Christians". We will achieve nothing by continuing to squabble amongst ourselves

[@bhobg]

Outstanding work thanks!

[@Lucia-sy7le]

Excellent presentation. Thank you.

[@abimukeshs8229]

We're one among the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches, Syro-Malabar Catholic Church following the East Syriac Liturgy. We love to be in full communion with the Patriarch of Rome from the very beginning.. ❤️

[@jamessloven2204]

Awesome video! Since you are going to cover some of the more concrete theological and political divisions of the Orthodox and Catholics, I would really like to see something about the Council of Florence, and how it mended the Great Schism, before falling apart for reason I don’t quite comprehend. Again, great video.

[@michaels4255]

Why did the Council of Florence "fall apart?" Partly, the emperor wanted an agreement because he was desperate for military aid against the Turks (which by the way never materialized so he sold out for nothing, with Constantinople falling to the Turks several years later) and his support helped to get the deal signed yet at the same time the political expediency at the heart of the process undermined any claim to legitimacy. Partly the bishops who signed did so under coercion by their own testimony. Partly because Bishop St. Mark of Ephesus adamantly refused to sign, even in defiance of the Emperor's will. Partly because the confirming document "signed" by Patriarch Joseph of Constantinople (who died a sudden and mysterious death just before "his" letter accepting Florence was discovered) was obviously fraudulent, which modern scholars also affirm. Partly because Prince Basil II of Moscow rejected the deal and had the compromising Metropolitan of Kiev thrown in prison while the Pope's emissary to Moscow hastily escaped back to Rome. Florence was built on a foundation of sand from the very beginning. Frightened or avaricious bishops were signing a confession they never believed in, the ordinary faithful never accepted it nor did the monasteries, and Orthodoxy had spread to an additional political center in Russia which was too remote worry about the Turks.

[@srfrg9707]

The reason is the hierarchy does not lord it over the orthodox Church. When the delegation came back to Constantinople the people were scandalized by what they had surrender to the pope and no one followed them.

[@evavanvollenhoven308]

WOW. Thank you for this video. I learnt a lot.

[@gamingjr9038]

Great video!

[@tent405]

It is interesting to note that what is now called the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly the Congregation, is one of the oldest institutions of the Roman Curia and before 1908 was known as the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition -- a far more impressive title.

[@ElasticGiraffe]

Can't imagine why they changed it. o_O

[@Subsidiarity3]

They are changing it in part I think because they want to change the Church's focus from "policing" doctrine among its members to evangelization. Pope Francis wants the Catholic Church's focus to change from (and this is a caricature to a large degree) from being right all the time to being the most caring and loving.

[@Christiancatholic7]

@@ElasticGiraffe the Inquisition was good and holy.

[@iwanspolwatch4281]

@@Christiancatholic7 yes. It was the heathens like Voltaire that sullied the inquisition, the french revolutionaries against humanity who killed more people in a single country in some dozen years then all the inquisitions sentenced people for their crimes in over 500 years.

[@allegrahanda6567]

I’m Catholic but I love the orthodox. In fact, one of my absolute favourite saints who I have a strong devotion to is elder paisios, he’s helped me so many times.

[@srfrg9707]

You only did half of the journey. You should listen to the voice in Revelation 18:4 before it's too late.

[@allegrahanda6567]

@@srfrg9707 I’ll be Catholic til I die

[@srfrg9707]

@@allegrahanda6567 May God help you then.

[@idgafidgaf3059]

@@srfrg9707 i also love the orthodox church specially how you have preserved your tradition but I'll remain catholic till I die I'll hold on to the promise of Jesus to Peter "the gates of hades shall not prevail"

[@srfrg9707]

@@idgafidgaf3059 I don't know if you still teach in the West that the first holy see founded by saint Peter is not Rome but Antioch. Therefore the Patriarch of Antioch is also a fully legitimate successor of saint Peter. He comes last in hierarchy of the old pentarchy of the Church but our Lord said "the last will be the first" when the disciples asked who shall be the first among us (christians). So take in account that even if Rome falls or if the petrinian seat in Rome is vacant as some say it is in the west, we Orthodox still are the Church of saint Peter and therefore the promise Jesus gave to saint Peter will be fulfilled.

[@brendanquinn6894]

You did an excellent job of this subject.

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

hi there.hola hooray hey. here we go the truth coming up,actually turah&bible were from god but they had been corrupted afterwards as a result god sent down quran upon prophet muhammed&god said i`ll preserved the quran thereby god had fulfilled his promise ,let me show u friendly&honestly the truth,okee dokee.shedding the light over christianity to know the truth first of all there is no original bible the 4 main bible are contradicted to each other yet there is 1 quran but who is the writer of bible the answer is paul the jewish who hates jesus let us discuss about the significant event which is crucifixion why does your would claimed god left his only son to crucify without any sin he had committed the disaster reached its uttermost when u found bible said on the tongue of jesus my god my god why do u forsaken me means jesus has never crucified willingly have u an idea why do they `ve crucified jesus because it`s a penalty of an impure &particularly crucifixion because dindn`t touched the earth make it an impured that what paul said jesus gets impure for the sake of us &see the authentic god what does said in quran chapter 3 verse 55 by the name of god the most gracious&most merciful , O Jesus, I will take you and raise you up to me, and had purified you from those who disbelieve, and He will place those who follow you above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection, then to Me is your return, so I will judge between you regarding that in which you differed,the authentic god rose jesus to the sky before they kill him in addition he had purified him from a false accusation of he was an impure . quran verse is comply with the bible itself :So they lifted up stones to stone him. But Jesus did and went out of the temple, passing through them." ( John 8:59 ),let alone of many verses in the bible incites to violence thus u found the largest massacres had happened in history the ww1&2 christian countries against christian countries 100 millions had been killed not to mention the sex stories in the bible nay u never found a single sex word in quran,don`t take it in personal just i clarify u the plain truth,bible said woman when she during the menstruation she gets impure &any thing she would touched it will be impure &should stay at her room till had done of it don`t see that an insulting to woman &how does the claimed god in bible said so he demeans& underrates his own creatures, yet islam honored the woman &she has a complete chapter its name women show us her rights,let us look at modern medicine which refutes the bible, ovulalation happens every 28 days from overy next month from other ovary when fertilization fails to happen mestrual bleading happens it always stops when a female gets pregnant ,menstrual cycle ovulation the female genital system consists of one uterus to overuse vagine& externat genital organs ,,the blood during menstruation could cause diseases to spread and that’s why does a woman during her menstruation needed to isolate so the blood would not be passed around to other people & diseases not be spread that`s what god has said in quran and they ask you about menstruation say, isolate women don't come near them untill they get purified verse 222 chapter 2,why there are priests,pastors&nuns are reverted daily to islam,yet u `ve never a muslim clergy left islam as per western media said that islam is the fastest growing religion in the world,i didn`t like to push islam onto u god said no compulsion in religion verse 256 chapter 2,figure it out then make up your mind,peace....

[@drbulbul]

I thought this was a very interesting question to address. Thank you.

[@bheemabachus5179]

You make such detailed and helpful videos. If you have any desire to talk about sects of Judaism or Islam I would be ecstatic. I know that's not really your target audience but still, you are very well suited to explain these vague and esoteric differences

[@padraicbrown6718]

Awesome video as always! I still hope and pray for reunification before 2054! Jesus founded on Church, and whether we call it Orthodox or Catholic, we're it. We need to see each other as members of that One Church that existed before 1054. Us lay people, especially. If it was bishops and patriarchs that formalised the split, it must be our hearts and our love for the other that heals the wounds.

[@jjs2351]

Padraic, I totally agree.

[@la.x-neverthedodgers]

2054? Frank & Bart: We will not live to see this.

[@serbianwarrior385]

As a Orthodox Christian i agree that would be wonderful but Catholics have to drop pope because no Orthodox Christian would ever accept pope and look at him as u guys do.

[@orrorsaness5942]

@@serbianwarrior385 Or at least have the pope convert to “Eastern” orthodoxy.

[@padraicbrown6718]

@@serbianwarrior385 I am curious: as an Orthodox, how do you think Catholics perceive the pope and his role in the Church?

[@dear_totheheart]

Astounding and so helpful! Hope you'll kindly consider providing a deep dive like this between Catholicism, Anglicanism, AngloCatholicism

[@dynamic9016]

Thanks much for this video.

[@user-7lf7w]

When i as a Chatolic hear how badly many denominations talk about us, and then randomly i go to Church, or go and talk to my friends and hear so many awesome testemonyes about how God lifted them up, and what Holy Spirit did for them ... I know there is Holy Spirit in our lives, not only what i can read in the gospel but what i can see with my own eyes... and here i see some people calling us satanists lol If God is with us, what heretic sect can go against us ?

[@magdalenawagner8790]

The fact that we´re the most hated by far tells me everything I need to know.

[@WiIICheck]

I’m a religious Italian/Greek Catholic, and I love my Orthodox brother and sisters just as much as my Catholic brothers and sisters. I believe we are two sides of the same One True Church. God bless Catholics and Orthodox! ✝️ ☦️

[@user-jv3mm6vt6e]

Then why do you damn them and follow a heresy?

[@jeffreywp]

Very informative.

[@AnaBrigidaGomez]

The best crossover and religious youtube in years.

[@brotherandrew3393]

This is a very good summary. It is true that in general official Catholicism is more friendly towards Eastern Orthodoxy than vice versa. And I guess the reason is that the Eastern Orthodox fear to be taken over by the Roman Catholic Church. Private relationships between Catholics and Orthodox however are mostly friendly as long as they do not start to throw dogmas or theological differences at each other. For me as a former Catholic some aspects of Orthodoxy are closer to what I read in the bible. Some not at all. On the other hand I got persuaded that Roman Catholic theology is intellectually more reflected and justified. From a historical point of view Eastern Orthodoxy is a serious challenge for Roman Catholicism because it did exist at least as long as Catholicism and did not emerge from the Catholic Church like Protestantism did. The stumbling stone however is the papacy. And that is what Eastern Orthodoxy has in common with Protestantism. And I guess that is the reason why many Protestants who want to convert to one of the older churches prefer Eastern Orthodoxy.

[@trevorhanlin4247]

As an eastern catholic I find the differences to be at the same time different, cohesive, and beautiful. Many issues that are brought up have already been rectified officially between different churches, the filioque being the largest example. I feel that politics and community are some of the biggest factors separating us. the latter I have added after attending a parish that has not one but two orthodox cousins! (the Ukrainians and Russians didn't get along on the orthodox side) The eastern churches provide both the example and the fear of the orthodox. I hope we can resolve these and that each church can have its own unique expression of the faith while also being in communion as we once were.

[@Kdriggs15]

While we do tend to bring more protestants in, we would say the RCC and Protestants are closer to each other because yall's theology is more alike than Prots to Orthodox.

[@AndrewFullerton]

As far as I can tell (an admittedly Catholic viewpoint), the primary reason for the continuation of the schism is just ecumenical politics, with two seperate hierarchies each afraid of losing their authority. Considering the official positions of the two Churches it seems pretty clear to me that one side is more afraid than the other, and perhaps not without cause. For something claiming to be the one true "Orthodox" Church, having far fewer members and less global influence than a rival claimant to your identity must be very threatening. If the schism was mended they would be a minority in their own Church.

[@MrMarcvus]

The Orthodox Church cannot enter communion with Rome - to do so would make us cease to be Orthodox!

[@Kdriggs15]

@@AndrewFullerton While the hierarchs may be afraid of losing power, for the Orthodox Church the primary reasons are still theological, as stated in this video. We cannot concede the Roman position because, as we see it, is not the Faith once and for all handed down to the Saints.

[@crislyn9979]

Im a roman Catholic here in Philippines. No orthodox here still i loved orthodox because they are one.

[@wishyouthebest9222]

Thank GOD for you, blessing us with your minustry

[@revinhatol]

*Thanks for the analysis, Joshua!* I would like to request that you and Matt would tackle the Iglesia Filipina Independiente (IFI, "Philippine Independent Church"), it's the first Philippine-based church in the world.

[@ProximaCentauri88]

It severed itself from Rome only to embrace the English monarch. IFI is now IN FULL COMMUNION with the Anglican Church.

[@jamesparson]

This is going to be interesting

[@jamesparson]

It was. I wish something like this was presented to me as a teen.

[@truanashabadapressure6621]

As a Catholic I love our Orthodox brothers and sisters in Christ! They are our closest spiritual tradition and our roots are the same. One day may we be one body in Christ again!

[@srfrg9707]

Which Catholic faith? When I was a kid, I was denied to attend to the Christmas mass in a little Swiss village church where I was for winter holidays because I am Greek orthodox and the priest saw me signing myself from the right to the left (there was no orthodox Church of course). A few years later in France I was in the scout movement and the Vatican II style catholic priests invited me to all their ceremonies. Now this invitation has been extend to musilm and pagan religions as well. No coherence. No continuity.

[@truanashabadapressure6621]

@@srfrg9707 invited to attend yes, but not to participate in Communion. Do the Muslim and the Pagan not deserve to know the true God? Idk your age but that sounds like when the Orthodox and Catholics were further apart, before JP2

[@srfrg9707]

@@truanashabadapressure6621 The problem is not the message you convey to the Muslims or to the pagans although it's a message of weakness and hesitation. What is mostly problematic is that you teach Christians to throw away the sword of Truth and to welcome deception with the same consideration you show for truth because "we are all a big family". But that's not what Jesus told us he came for. He said "Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." John Paul II canonized Stepignac and turned Mejugorge where thousands of orthodox Christians were executed by the Ustasha with the complicity of the Franciscan order and the Roman Catholic clergy during WWII into a huge pilgrimage. I don't call that closing the gap. You Roman Catholics are having a monologue with yourselves. You don't listen. We are still further apart despite what you tell to yourselves.

[@Garry_Combine]

​@@truanashabadapressure6621indeed. Also Muslim heretics deserve to witness the truth

[@sinbadmoreplovac9963]

Thanks for explaining the key differences. All the best from Serbia (Orthodox Church)

[@jcolterh]

Great video.

[@TechnoMageB5]

Excellent breakdown for both sides. To me, as a Serbian Eastern Orthodox Christian, the one key thing that separates the two groups is Rome's assertion of the infallibility [and thus implied supreme authority] of the Catholic Pope. This, to me, is the point that created the great schism 1000 years ago as until then leaders of each group of Christians had equal power/authority. To oversimplify, politics and power grab/greed factored in [not saying the Orthodox side hasn't had its own involvement with politics and power, am saying that this power grab within the church itself is what split the church]. With power comes hubris. As mentioned early in the video, the Catholic church has the attitude overall that "you're not part of the church, you can't be saved" - with apparently an exception. Compare that to the Orthodox church who rightfully leaves final wisdom and judgement to God, while encouraging members to stay faithful and in the group as the teachings of Christ provide at least one set of guidelines through which one may be saved. While I can go into other examples of where, in perhaps my own hubris, I find the Catholic church has points correct that the Orthodox does not, and vice versa, the bottom line is that until and unless the Catholic side renounces its claim to authority and power via the infallibility of the Pope, reconciliation with the Orthodox will never happen. Personally, I see all Christians who truly work at learning the teachings of Christ and following his example as fellow brothers and sisters through Christ, regardless of which church or lack thereof they are a member. After all, this is how Christianity originally worked: the relationship with Christ and God is PERSONAL. The church was originally a tool to help bring communities together and preserve the teachings of God and Christ. As soon as politics became involved in any way, to that degree the teachings become altered/lost.

[@claytonbenignus4688]

A comparison between Orthodoxy and Methodism is also in order. When Wesley sought to go beyond Arminianism, he read Eastern Orthodox Literature.

[@chriskressner2823]

Hello friend! I feel your video is fairly accurate. I went to college in Pennsylvania so I feel almost as if I know you. I was delighted to see the quote from Fr. Gregory, as I know him personally. :)

[@frb1808]

WELL DONE!!!

[@thetrutharchive4202]

Former Catholic now Orthodox. Great vid!

[@iamdigory]

Lord Have Mercy on your Church, show us the truth and unite us.

[@josephtravers777]

As an old cradle Catholic, I love my brothers and sisters in the Faith and rejoice that we are striving for unity with all believers. The fact that some believe any institution can judge souls is troublesome. Only God has that right.

[@Call_Upon_YAH]

They with ears to hear, let them hear: Through the Holy Spirit, God has put it on me to preach to those lost in the devil's deceit! Hear me when I say, ye that are Catholic have been deceived and know not God. Ye worship Mary, praying to her; when God tells his to worship none other than him. It is idolatry. Catholicism has its own Bible and teachings, which are blasphemous to the word of God: the Holy Bible. As ye follow the teachings of man and not God; ye hear the pope, but not Jesus, yet ye claim to be his disciples! These are but a few things I named ye dwell within; there are many more. I tell you now to repent of your sins, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit upon asking the Father! There are *NO* sub-divisions of Christianity. You're either a disciple of Christ or not. A Christian is someone who follows God's word, not a religion. Who obey the Father and follow his will; not man's nor their own heart's. Unless you keep Jesus' commandments, think not the Holy Spirit will dwell within you! They who heed this message and did what was stated with an open heart to God... Read the Holy Bible (KJV) daily and every time before you read, pray to the Father and ask: "Lord I ask that you give me understanding of your word, that I interpret it the way you want me to, and none of my own. I ask you in Jesus' name, amen." Revelation 22:8-9 KJV 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. Acts 2:38 KJV 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Luke 11:13 KJV 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? John 14:21-24 KJV 21 *He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.* 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, *If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.* 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and *the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.* 3 John 1:11 KJV 11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. *He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.* 1 John 3:6-10 KJV 6 *Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.* 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: *he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.* 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 *Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.* 10 *In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,* neither he that loveth not his brother.

[@ElasticGiraffe]

@@Call_Upon_YAH That'll work. I'm sure the magic words are already taking effect on his Satan-bound Catholic soul and he's well on his way to the nearest KJV-Only Independent Baptist church to repent of his Babylonian pagan ways. In all seriousness, do you feel this is the appropriate comment or video for your spiel?

[@generalyousif3640]

@@Call_Upon_YAH I hope you know your comment Is extremely blasphemous . I’m not even joking. I truly think you coming from a good place at best and just full of hate at worst. Because your ignorance lost me at sentence 2. God have mercy on us Sinners, now, and at hour of our death.

[@mayorofbasedville7680]

As an Eastern Orthodox convert I've found it difficult to understand the relationship between us and the Roman Church. It's much more complicated than it appears from the outside looking in. And getting a concise answer on the subject from either clergy to the laity is nearly impossible. I think the tone of this video perfectly matches my lived experience. It would seem that Roman Catholics are much more receptive toward the Orthodox than the Orthodox are toward them.

[@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960]

Have you converted from catholicism?

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

Yeah. The Orthodox take is a bit more conservative. There’s a bit of a fear of being undermined and subsumed into Rome, I think, though most Orthodox still ache for unity, they’re a bit more wary of compromise. Also, there’s a ton of views in Orthodoxy about this and it’s nigh impossible to pin down one answer here. There’s been a few big synods that have made statements in the last decades.

[@ab-ts7md]

When a family quarrels with each other, it is often the most bitter of conflicts.

[@Shaleqa_Adenan]

Don’t forget the prosecution of the early orthodox Christians by Muslims and Roman Catholic Christians, 15C catholic pope authorized of the colonization of Americans, Asian and Africans, and WW1 & 2 Eastern European orthodox Christians prosecuted by catholic authorities. It may not be known to catholic Christians but the catholic authority prosecuted over 100 million Protestant and orthodox Christians in the last 400 years.

[@andreybovykin7792]

Very good and overall correct as a first approximation on this issue.

[@ifeanyimartin4638]

Well said!

[@SuperTommox]

I'm italian so there are very few orthodox churches here, but I still vividly remember entering one in Rome. Absolute stunning.

[@user-yo9rs2yb7c]

I'm Catholic, I attended orthodox mass the other day with some Orthodox friends, I pray that we reunite one day, we are truly brothers and sisters ♥️✝️

[@GoodNewsEveryone2999]

The "rules" about taking communion etc are not something I experienced in Orthodoxy, I found it very open to interpretation and cultural difference and our priests in the Russian Orthodox Churches in America I went to were very open to the idea that the intention was just as important, even moreso than the rituals and they would say if there is no Orthodox Church near you then take communion in a Catholic Church, if neither is available, then any Christian church, and if other Christians came and wanted to take communion as there were no churches of their faith nearby they would have given it, but they were more strict about the types of Baptism and it was more expected to wear a head covering in Church. But overall it's like they weren't going to put the rules above the needs of the people when it came to conflict - despite all the ritual and scripture, it was waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy less dogmatic and authoritarian in the more Eastern Churches I've been too, more than as you move west, even within Orthodoxy I found the more Western Churches more dogmatic and authoritarian, although not to the same degree as the Catholics.

[@kittisakchooklin874]

Thank you for the quote that only God can hear and know our minds and thoughts. I believe that, not even angels or any others could even!

[@dimitrioskalfakis]

comprehensive presentation and to my knowledge accurate enough for the eastern side point of view.

[@AtamMardes]

One of the oldest scams is to collect tithe by telling people that they're born in sin & there's a better place after death, but to be saved a spot they must repent & believe the story that a lord & savior was sacrificed 2000 years ago to forgive their sins.

[@johnnyd2383]

What is your alternative to that "scam" you believe in.?

[@AtamMardes]

@@johnnyd2383 The alternative is to find a regular job and not to "scam" people by preaching religious bs.

[@johnnyd2383]

@@AtamMardes I agree with you. Eastern Orthodox Church was never collecting tithe. It is specialty of Protestants who open private businesses, call them "church" and start preaching tithe... promise "eternal salvation" as a good marketing slogan and voila.! So.. preaching Christianity does not necessarily mean robbing people if done by Lord's Orthodox Church.

[@marksawires6178]

Hey josh, love your videos and i have a request. Could you do a video on the differences between thd orientel churches? Ex. The armenian church uses unleveaned bread whilst the others use leavened bread. Then do one on the differences in the eastern orthodox churches? Thanks!

[@MrWolfman229]

I love seeing Metropolitan Tikhon in the thumbnail of this video, a great and holy hierarch! Great neutral discussion of a divisive topic.

[@Dank-gb6jn]

I’d like to see an extra long-form video from this channel (or really any well respected religious studies channel) that dives deep on the apocrypha (both OT and NT along with the for lack of better terminology, Gnostic Gospels); and their relation to modern Christianity. As a practicing (and rebuilding) Christian, I have taken it upon myself to study my faith as best I can outside of institutional learning (since that’s beyond expensive); and as such; I hold it as important to study all angles of it; including those angles that are considered “heretical”. How such works can be considered so, is beyond me, since our earliest brothers and sisters in Christ were the key disseminators of said works. I hope this channel at least could take up the cause and bring these gospels and writings into the light of modernity and allow for more Christians to access them and understand our faith’s roots.

[@geoffreystill1038]

I’m a proud Protestant and Presbyterian…. But damn this channel is going to cause me to convert to the Eastern Orthodox Church… I agree with them on a lot…

[@andys3035]

Former Protestant myself, of the Calvinist persuasion and I'm being received into the Orthodox Church Holy Week this year. The journey has been life changing. God bless and guide your steps. ☦️🙏

[@TheDotaken]

Look up your nearest parish, call the priest and have a conversation.

[@matijavrscak6461]

​@@andys3035 you should visit my country and see how the sebian orthodox church still wants a Greater Serbia trough the Church even anexing all orthodox churches in 1918. The croatian orthodox Chruch could never exist because of that political dream. You can even look it up with the Montenegros Orthodox Church which has serious political and theological problems with the serbuans. How americans can get orthodox beyond whats happening with this Russia and Ukraine is beyond me, since orthodox Ukrainians here feel more conection to the Greekcatholic Church than the Serbian orthodox one.

[@danfsteeple]

I have about 7 or so friends that went from Protestantism to Orthodoxy. Best decision we ever made

[@geoffreystill1038]

@@andys3035 I’m very Calvinist, and every time I decide I am going to talk with an Orthodox Priest, I find something that I find irreconcilable, or atleast something I find myself hard to agree with, may I ask why you converted?

[@joachim847]

The "strictness" of baptizing converts is disputed. By a strict reading of the relevant canons, many converts should _not_ be baptized again.

[@ElasticGiraffe]

Very true. There's a tendency to see anything severe or prohibitive as strict and conservative, when in reality the canonical tradition itself was more permissive and accommodating.

[@goatsandroses4258]

Exactly. There seems to be disagreement about this. There are ultra-conservative as well as more moderate factions in Orthodoxy.

[@michaels4255]

A convert who was baptized by a heretical sect, provided the form of the baptism was acceptable, may be received either by a new Orthodox baptism or by chrismation (analogous to confirmation in the West), embuing grace into the baptismal rite performed outside the Church. Which course of action to take is entirely at the discretion of the bishop.

[@Caesar_Americanus]

That’s why I ultimately left I was a Catecumen for two years with my wife we were having a child and not even our child was going to be baptized and the final straw was when the Archbishop of the Greek Orthodox Church in America baptized the homosexual couples baby and the godparents aren’t even Orthodox so we saw that as a insult never got any explanation left no one said a word and we were moving so there were no other Orthodox Church’s nearby the closest being three hours so we joined the Catholic Church as their was one in our town I’m entirely happy about it as they feel luke warm but it’s better than being nothing

[@ElasticGiraffe]

@@Caesar_Americanus I'm sorry your experience left you with a bad taste in your mouth. GOArch is.. slacker.. than most jurisdictions (although their monasteries are a different story, kind of the opposite). If the typical American Orthodox parish priest did something like that, 99% probable that his bishop would have something to say about it.

[@richardsimms251]

Terrific review of history RS Canada

[@Nico-vm9xp]

Very good 👍🏻

[@prkp7248]

One to keep in mind is that although it is not dogma of orthodox church to belive in immaculate conception of Mary, its still permitted under tradition to belive in it. When it comes to purgatory, the less conflict-oriented catholics and orthodox theologians can give a definition of it that is common and acceptable for both of those churches - common disunderstanding on purgatory, from people outside of Roman Catholic Church is that Catholic teach that "Purgatory is a place" while it is not true, RCCh clearly states that purgatory is not place. In Orthodox theology there is still a possibility that someone need prayers after death because they are in "condition of waiting" - those who seek reconciliation among patriarchs see that as greek Counterpart of latin purgatory. Of course there are people who object with this statements.

[@lukasg9031]

Purgatory is a process not a place. Although traditionally in art and explaining it has been seen as a place

[@back_in__nam5312]

the problem is more so the idea there is any "purgatorial fire", if you are interested in the actual objections, the most concise explanation is from St. Mark of Ephesus' Homilies during the Council of Florence

[@michaels4255]

By AD 1200, Purgatory was clearly a place. Have they decided to "de - placify" it again? Immaculate Conception: I don't know what the Orthodox bishops would say to this as a private opinion, but it is an error because it is based on the Augustinian assumption of "original sin" as a hereditary thing inherited through the male semen and therefore Mary had to be immaculately conceived so she could be born without "original sin." There are so many things wrong with this line of reasoning that it will always be controversial and divisive, even as a private opinion (which it most definitely has not been since 1954 in the Latin confession - at a bare minimum, the Latins must de - dogmatize this opinion by admitting that the papacy made a theological error in 1954 be declaring it an essential part of the catholic faith, but they cannot admit this because in 1871 they declared the Pope infallible in matters of faith, another theological error that they must renounce.) And then there is the notorious filioque clause which unilaterally adds to both the Nicene Creed AND to canonical scripture since the creed merely quotes the Gospel of St. John on this point - "who proceeds from the Father" - and Rome has added to this. In addition, its addition is theologically important because it distorts the doctrine of the Trinity by declaring a new property or relationship that the Father and Son possess but the Holy Spirit does not. This gives the Father and Son an "extra essence" or ousia that the Holy Spirit does not have. The Spirit now proceeds from the Father and the Son, but the Son is begotten only of the Father, not of the Father and the Spirit. And then there is the Latin version of the real presence which they call transubstantiation and which is based on the demonstrably flawed physics of Aristotle. Okay, I guess you could argue that maybe Aristotle's science is merely wrong but not ethically heretical, but basing any dogma on physics, and especially on a physics theory that is wrong, bad, and demonstrably false, is just bad theology. The Lutheran view is equivalent to the Orthodox view and does not depend an outmoded theory of ancient science.

[@cloudkitt]

It would mainly be acceptable to believe that Mary was born without original sin because Orthodox don't believe *anyone* was born with original sin.

[@TurtleMarcus]

As I undertand it, the main problem the Orthodox have with the Immaculate Conception (Papal ex cathedra aside), is the fact that the definition of the dogma takes for granted an Augustinian view of Original Sin. While the Orthodox accept that Mary was sinless (maybe even from the moment of her conception), they cannot accept that particular view of Original Sin.

[@swensandor]

Thank you so much for this wonderful video. I am a theologian in the orthodox Church and I admit, everything you said was absolutely correct. I wish to state, I am very sad my jurisdiction and my orthodox church in general has such a terrible view on you, my latin brothers and the blessed see of Rome. There are only very few diffenrences between our jurisdictions and almost all of them are due to semantic problems. For example - the "filioque" case has almost been solved during the council of Ferrara/Firence. It was very important to us, that we all should believe and confess, God the Holy Spririt proceeds of only ONE principle and that God the Son partakes in each and every part of the Holy Spirit, even in His procession, so the Holy Spririt ALWAYS is also the Spirit of the Son. We also believe and confess, our all-holy Lady, the mother of God and ever-virgin Mary is and always was in all aspects of her being free from each and every stain of sin. Therefore we also call her in our services the "immaculate". We have problems with the doctrine of original sin, we prefer the concept of ancestral sin, but also these are mostly semantic problems, not differnces in faith. With what we really have issues are the dogmas of the infellibility of the roman pontif in all dogmatic and ethical issues, that he is placed above even ecuminical counsils. Our problems with purgatory are almost solely referring to the teaching, that God after he had forgiven in the sacrament of confession the sins of His children would still punish them with temporal punishments. We believe, when God forgives, He forgives entirely and absolutely, without any punishment remaining. BUT, of COURSE we also believe, there will be purification of our souls after death. Of course this will be painful and hard for us. Our holy father St. John Chrysostom said, we will recieve the direct presence, the light and love of God wiithout any filter and the fire of His love will purify us like a nugget with gold in it will be purified in fire of all of its defilements and the more and more the stains will be burned away, the more and more and the brighter an brighter we shall shine. We both celebrate the holy sacrifice of the eucharist, we both call the sacrifice of Golgatha - crossing time and space - into our presence. We both have apostolic succession. We both are blessed by our Lady who appears in the latin Church as well as in the byzantine ("Eastern Orthodox") as well as in the oriental Orthodox jurisdictions. I steadfastly believe, whereever the holy sacrifice of Golgatha is called into presence by an ordained priest or bishop in full apostolic succsession, ther the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is present, regardless of minor differences in theology and understanding. So I deeply love my latin brothers and I pray and hope soon this idiotic "Kindergarten" will end and we all will meet at the altar of our Lord, partaking in the ONE holy sacrifice of Eucharist. God bless you, dear latin brothers. The Lord will unite us all again at his holy table soon. In the end, the immaculate heart of our Lady shall triumph! Christ is risen!

[@Hopeternal316]

When i was young, I broke our big front window in anger. I was scared of what would be my dad’s reaction when he got home. To my surprise, he was actually calm as i confessed the why’s and when’s without blaming anyone else. He actually forgave me on the spot, he never even mentioned it again or threw my wrongdoing back in my face, (as in - remember the time….) but the fact remained that damage had been done and it was my cooperation and evidence of repentance, that i fix the window and offer the price toward fixing it. So if we aren’t willing to do that in the here and now, at some point it must be dealt with?

[@TheDjcarter1966]

As a Catholic, not theologian but working on a theology Masters degree, I wholeheartedly agee. There is a lot of talking past each other going on I am like you hopeful on day we can put our differences aside and be ONE as Christ wished. My only fear is with so many different Orthodox Churches they would never all agree. As Catholics if the Pope would agree we would follow...I think a great Ecumenical Council would be required. Papal infallibility is silly anyway it has been used ONE time in 150 years to declare dogma and it could have just been done at a council. I have actually prayed for a great Council perhaps in 2054 after a millennium we could come back together.

[@thomasburke9060]

Respectfully, it seems to me that you are being excessive in finding ways of making it sound as if Holy Orthodoxy is compatible with the doctrines of the Papists. Your comments about the Immaculate Conception weren't so bad, as you mentioned that we do not believe in the doctrine that has (supposedly) necessitated the IC in the Latin tradition. That said, I would say even here you've overreached a bit. There really isn't a totally consistent testimony in the Fathers to the Theotokos being completely sinless from the moment of her conception. Some of the Fathers speculated that she suffered from certain minor sins. I appreciate the Orthodox theory of the sinlessness of the Theotokos, but I think it's a misrepresentation to say we're agreed on her being "always, in all aspects of her being free from each and every stain of sin". This is one of those matters where there is some diversity of thought in the Orthodox Church, even seemingly in the writings of the Fathers. As near-acceptable as your remarks on the IC were, I can't say the same concerning the filioque. I really don't see how you think it was "almost resolved" at Florence. For one thing, I don't really buy that the "as from one principle" clause was sincere. It seems to have been added just for the sake of placating the Orthodox contingent, and so shouldn't be taken as the primary element in illuminating the Latin theology. But even if it were, I've not seen anyone provide a satisfactory explanation of what it's supposed to mean. If the Holy Spirit in the strict sense originates from the Father alone, it's quite clear how there is a unified principle: the principle is the Father. But if the Holy Spirit originates from the Father _and_ the Son? What is the one principle? It can't simply be the Father and the Son, because that references a pair of two hypostases, not a unified entity. The answer we often get is that it is actually the divine essence shared between the Father and the Son. The problem with making the essence the principle of the Trinity is that it hypostatizes the essence, and places the Father, Son, and Spirit primarily in relation to the essence, rather than to each other. Effectively, this means that they are modes of a singular hypostasis. So the "essence is the principle" explanation is a form of neo-Sabellianism. It's important to note that we do not need definitions like the one given at Florence in order to have a triadology where the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally in relation to each other. If we suppose that the Father alone is the originating cause of the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit, the Son also being in the picture, being eternally begotten of the Father, it follows that the Son must eternally receive the Holy Spirit. Thus, the Son is the eternal Spirit-bearer, in whom the Spirit rests and abides as His temple. As far as I can tell, this is sufficient to place the Son in the picture of the eternal procession of the Spirit, and is sufficient to explain how the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Son.

[@costakeith9048]

A theologian in the Orthodox Church, eh? Are you telling us we now have our fourth theologian in 2000 years and can put your name right next to the all-laudable Apostle and Evangelist John, St. Gregory the Theologian, and St. Symeon the New Theologian? Well, I'll get right on painting your icon then. The problems with your theology are self-evident and what one would expect from a man who has the audacity to take the venerable title of theologian upon himself, so I will not bother addressing them in detail. But I will say we cannot wave away the ditheism of the papists with semantics and you have completely ignored their blasphemous and demonic doctrine of created Grace, which no doubt arises out of their hatred for and degradation of the Holy Spirit into a mere creature by way of the filioque. Oh, and I see for good measure you also included your vote of support for the Monophysite heretics, apparently it wasn't enough to align yourself with the papist heretics, you had to repudiate the fathers of the Fourth Holy and Ecumenical Synod and spit upon the Holy Relics of St. Euphemia the Great Martyr. Oh, all-venerable theologian, what is next? Are you going to tell me that Origen was unjustly anathematized? That Nestorius was misunderstood? That St. Athanasius was a radical and we should sympathize with Arius instead? Or should we just all go over to the Synagogue of Satan or the demon-worshiping Mohammedans? Where does the insanity end?