What Does Joel Salatin Actually Think of "Regenerative"?

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From Episode #93: We’ve Been Duped By “Regenerative”
Regenerative agriculture is not what we think it is, and now the USDA is funding Big Ag in their efforts to become “regenerative”. Join Farmer Joel and Dr. Sina as they expose the truth behind the regenerative label.
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Joel's website: www.polyfacefarms.com
Sina's website: www.drsinamccullough.com
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Disclaimer: The information provided by Joel Salatin and Sina McCullough, PhD is not intended to prevent, diagnose, treat, or cure any disease. The information provided in the podcasts, videos, and show descriptions is for educational purposes only. It is not intended to diagnose or treat any medical or psychological condition. The information provided is not meant to prevent, treat, mitigate or cure such conditions. The information provided is not medical advice nor is it designed to replace advice, information, or prescriptions you receive from your healthcare provider. Consult your health care provider before making any changes to your diet, medication, or lifestyle. Proceed at your own risk.
Joel Salatin and Sina McCullough, Ph.D. specifically disclaim any liability, loss, or risk, personal or otherwise, that may be incurred as a consequence, directly or indirectly, of the use and application of any of the contents of their KZbin channel, Podcast, websites, books, Facebook pages, or any of the content during consulting sessions or speaking engagements. Proceed at your own risk.
These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

[@oneacrehomestead]

Truly hope to make it to Polyface one day soon. Just to be able to shake Joel's hand and say Thank You, for all he has done.

[@andrewbateman7534]

What has he done?

[@oneacrehomestead]

@@andrewbateman7534 I would encourage you to check into him. From not just his family's farm, but all the things he has done even on speaking at a government level trying to bring change.

[@jimbledsoe9083]

The difference between these things is context. When Gabe Brown talks about regenerating the soil he is talking about how to maximize soil health while increasing operation profits. The conversation is with other farmers and their applications of the five principles: 1: Soil Armor. 2: Diversity. 3: Continual Live Plant/Root. 4: Livestock Integration. 5: Minimizing Soil Disturbance. is what regenerative agriculture is about. The conversation in this show is about finding reasons to fight and complain about the troublemakers that would do anything to mess things up. The unfortunate result here is more troublemaking. The regenerative practitioners are farmers addressing ways of healing degraded resources and building farming operations that are profitable through learning how to dance with nature in the context of their cultural and bioregional settings.

[@LittleKi1]

Exactly. And they know that. At least Joel does.....which is why this episode irritated me to no end. Sina does not appear to have a clue other than what can be used to generate this week's outrage.

[@timolsen7876]

Thank you, Jim. I'm appreciative of Gabe Brown and his advocacy of six principles for enhancing soil health. The sixth principle being context. Context provides an entry point for more producers to integrate the other five soil health principles into their business plans. The movement from a focus to maximixe yield per acre to maximize profit per acre will encourage regenerative agriculture practices.

[@texasfreedomfarm1288]

100%. I love Joel Saladin but this podcast turned me off so much. It completely ignored the innovations of people like Gabe Brown who is planting crops directly into covers without using herbicides. And also doing it without commercial fertilizers and insecticides. This “Doctor” placing regenerative behind organic sounds like she has an axe to grind and has never seen a soil test between an organic grower and a regenerative one.

[@backwoodbasics9383]

Agreed. I have read "Dirt to Soil" by Gabe Brown, and watched many of his presentations. Sina would do well to do the same. I have great respect for Joel's efforts, but puzzle over why he tends not to mention Gabe much. Aren't we all in this together?

[@jerryinmon2731]

Well said. Can't add anything to what you said!

[@markmorris8410]

Brilliant discussion! Just subscribed. I have appreciated Joel's honesty and transparency for quite some time. Thank you both!

[@Krog12354]

When I think of regerative farming I think of two things: 1. I think of how my grandparents used to farm. 2. I think of how the Amish have always and still are ferming. Both considered themselves God's stewards to take care of His creation.

[@Krog12354]

Just wish KZbin had autospell.

[@jenbear8652]

The Amish we know save the manure for their hay field for the horses & cows. Their horses & cows just go out to a huge area to graze and are not rotated through smaller areas. They overgraze one large area and save the other as hay field that the animals never graze on, so they can cut and save for winter hay. So no rotational grazing. And they still plow up and experience erosion in their veggie gardens. They use granular fertilizer on their veggie garden. And also use some kind of liquid spray on them. Not saying they’re wrong to farm this way; it’s just not very regenerative in the ways I’ve been learning about from Joel. So it may depend on the individual or community of Amish, just as much as it depends on the individual or local farming community how they farm/grow.

[@karenbuckner1959]

An Amish man I met in S. Tenn. said they use chemical pesticides. When I expressed concern for their health, he said they have lots in their community that are sick. It seemed he hadn't made a connection between them until then.

[@JamesTyreeII]

@@karenbuckner1959 That is so sad. People in the farming industry too often seem to think it doesn’t affect them and too often refuse to wear PPE.

[@justinarnold7725]

​@@Krog12354KZbin has edit button

[@jennysteves]

I remember, before both terms were corporately co-opted for profit (we were told this was done for consistency in labeling) when organic gardening WAS regenerative. It was hard work, but healthy work.

[@LtColDaddy71]

I see the latest incarnation of regen farming as a good step. We’re an at scale organic enterprise, but what organic has become is appalling. So much tillage and input investment. I went to a big organic operation (smaller than us however) that is putting out huge yield numbers, and laid out the least productive corn crops we grow, two 75 day open pollinated varieties we plant at a 24k population in twin 60 rows, with lots of cow chow growing along side it, against the 115 day best performing hybrid they grew, planted at 44k population, did 270 bushels to my 120 bushels, but I made more money. I had almost nothing in it aside from biodiesel, and equipment depreciation, and the premium for the protein content is astronomical. We do grow higher population narrow row hybrids also, but not more than a 90 day relative maturity if I can help it. I want that extra time for cover crops to perform their benefit. I do have to grow what people want, but I won’t bend on going backwards on soil building, and I won’t till. AT ALL. That limits me to 170-180-190 bushel corn crops on the hybrids. But I don’t have inputs. I don’t want to be dependent on an organic input any more than I do a synthetic toxin. The regen movement is a stepping stone. We lure them in, then we get them to stop spraying the cover crops on soybean ground. Any cereal family of cover crop will terminate mechanically if it’s a pedigree crop that reaches termination phase uniformly. The “variety not stated” ones, not so much. We’re going to get there. This new generation can see how their dads farmed smarter than their grandpas, and on up the line. Farming is changing. It’s about money. I’m a bonafide, certified climate change denier. It’s not man made so much as the environment always goes through cycles. My opinions are based on the greatest physicist aside from Einstein who ever lived, Freeman Dyson. Money, health, and independence however, are good enough reasons to farm better.

[@seattleareatom]

Interesting video. This is the first I've hear of BIG Everything co-opting regenerative. Just shoot me. LOL I will still think in terms of living soil not dead dirt as regeneration.

[@henklenting2821]

I always wonder what Joel thinks about Hemp, which is also one of those things that is currently going mainstream and being very good for the soil and a solution to almost everything

[@karenbuckner1959]

We think of labels as things identifiable, understood, and in ways, providing us comfort. In the world of agriculture, you've expressed how those labels have less understood meanings and intent, and should raise our caution above our comfort.

[@DreamGrazersAcres]

This is a legitimate conversation, rather than people getting all star struck over Joel, or doe eyed over the Homestead movement.

[@AgnesMariaL]

Regenerative sprays, not tills? That doesn't sound right to me. Regenerative farming incorporates livestock; for example, we run pigs through any area that we want to plant. They clear out all the brush, weeds and their roots while tilling and fertilizing the soil as they go along. Get the timing right, and you have a beautiful, fluffy bed ready for whatever seeds you want to throw down when the pigs move to the next area! And then, of course, you also get pastured pork and bacon out of that deal 😋

[@peterwebb8732]

Reflect on the difference between niche-farming and broadscale agriculture. You talk about “getting the timing right”, well the sprayer can be pulled out of the shed when the timing is EXACTLY right, every time. The results will be more consistent and the paddock will not be full of the humps and hollows that pigs leave, so you don’t have to run more machinery over it just to level it again. I can use selective chemicals to control just one type of weed - which is possibly invasive, super-competitive and/or toxic - while leaving the desirable species healthy and flourishing.

[@RianMeier]

I didn't even know big ag uses that term. The only people that I've ever heard using the term regenerative agriculture are Darren Doherty and Mark Sheppard. How does their usage fit in the timeline and spectrum? Because as far as I know, they would both vehemently disagree with the big ag version you described.

[@davezoom2682]

Farming has been regenerative almost forever ,if it was not we would be hunter gatherers , where it was not regenerative farming collapsed as soon as fertility ran out . only when pesticides and fertilizers came in did it change , what worked was old fashioned mixed farming

[@jlkkauffman7942]

I wouldn’t say organic is automatically better then conventional it depends on how the conventional is used, and yes you can use bio solids from a cafo in organic.

[@texasfreedomfarm1288]

I think your discussion completely ignored some of the excellent “regenerative” work of farmers like Gabe Brown in North Dakota. Or Dave Brandt in Ohio. These guys aren’t tilling their thousands of acres. They’re planting directly into cover crops. Label or not, what Joel says about large scale farms having to till instead of use herbicides is just not true.

[@halbertking2683]

" Permaculture " by Bill Mollison . " How To Grow More Vegetables " by Jon Jeavons . " Astrological Gardening " by Louise Riotte . " 1491 " by Charles C. Manne shows fields in Massachusetts in the 1930s that still had mounds from old Indian corn fields . Every town that has " field " in it was a big field of corn . Wakefield , Marshfield , Mansfield , Springfield ......... Corn , Beans , Squash . " Buffalo Bird Womans Garden " by ? It worked before .

[@YVM3311]

I won’t agree with this statement. In fact i see it the opores-te based on hundreds of podcasts and interviews and mini docs I’ve watched over time on the subject. You have many examples of organic approved pesticides being used in organic farms. On the other hand regenerative pastures focus immensely on no disturbing of the top soil, and let the roots over and over time continue to grow and develop a healthy top soil with higher water soil penetration, where no tilting is key. I love Joel salatin’s interviews and extensive knowledge , but this one I’m not following, unless this is what Media is saying about organic and regenerative… my 2cents

[@organicat61]

dan kittridge of bionutrientfood assoc uses the word regenerative NUTRITION and has the refractometer to prove it!!

[@debireed6128]

My new term…AGI…As God Intended.

[@k.p.1139]

YES! Best of any of the comments!

[@hands2hearts-seeds2feedamu83]

So what you are saying the big agriculture, just changed the name/label of the agriculture techniques THEY already doing, so that it sounds like a better way to farm

[@smittys19daytona]

I've been watching a lot people explain regenerative ag. And not one has ever used any form of chem spray . There building soil health with rotational grazing , after its eaten down then plant barley corn ect. With a seeder no till . With amazing results. Big ag continues to jump on the bandwagon and high jack all that is good for there own profit and confuse the public

[@billiamc1969]

I wonder how many people know that ALL orange juice has artificial sweetners or "flavor enhancer"...this INCLUDES organic...it is the exact same substance as is in all the zero calorie sparkling water drinks

[@nikkisigmon8090]

All? Even the ones that are just orange juice concentrate and water?

[@johnbanach3875]

Really? Does that include the juice I squeeze myself, just cutting oranges in two?

[@k.p.1139]

Wow, I worked at a juice plant where concentrate was made. Did I miss the sweetening and artificial flavor room? 🤔 I do recall the trailers having to go through the test shack and having the fruits brix tested, to see if it was sweet enough to be used.. But, who am I? I just worked there. They must have had those rooms hidden from us! Thanks for the informed tip! 🤨

[@terrydoble1468]

True regenerative are borderline organic. They are almost there.

[@henrikravnjakobsen5951]

I have had a lot of respect for Joel so far, but it was all lost today. There was total lack of understanding the details and ideas behind reg ag in this interview.

[@RickLarsonPermacultureDesigner]

Regenerative ag is just another reason for people to not have to consider growing the food they eat. Boring.

[@JAYWAY1982]

I don’t understand the hesitation towards big ag doing regenerative agriculture. Isn’t that a good direction for everyone?

[@diannamc367]

It depends on their definition of regenerative.

[@dcg1976]

She totally "flubbed" explaining "regenerative" vs. "organic." Regenerative means restoring the soil micro-biome. Spraying broad spectrum herbicids is one of several techniques available under the broad banner of Regenerative Ag. This conversation just created thousands of misinformed people.

[@thomaschambers5711]

Steward of the fields

[@peterwebb8732]

Remember this. Everyone who has something to sell, will use the best “spin” they have, to convince you to buy their product. It’s doesn’t matter if it is Big Agra, or a biodynamic smallholder with a stall at the local farmer’s market. Both have a vested interest in presenting their product as “better” in some way. Talking labels…. Most of us who get labeled “conventional” farmers are simply those who do what WORKS. There are millions of independent farmers around the world, all of whom are looking for ways to get paid, while minimising damage to the land that is our most valuable asset. - Anyone who tells you that we don’t care about poisoning our customers, is lying to you. That’s a good way to go bankrupt. - Anyone who tells you that we don’t care about degrading land that cost us enormous amounts, is lying to you. - Anyone who tells you that farmers are too stupid to change to better systems, is lying to you. I know very few farmers who are not looking over the fence at what their neighbour is doing, while asking themselves whether what they see is more productive, more profitable or in some other way…. desirable. The blunt fact is - as we look around - the “organic” folks are producing less er acre and depending on niche markets paying higher prices, to pay their bills. Good luck to them, but for those of us who live a long way from trendy farmer’s markets and live on land best suited to the production of bulk commodities on a large scale, the only viable markets are international. There we have to compete with all the other export nations that are focused on maximum production at minimum cost. That is how the world gets fed. Organic methods are not (yet?) productive enough to do that, let alone competitively.

[@peterwebb8732]

Incidentally… I’m in Australia, farming a mix of broadacre cropping and pastured merino sheep for wool and meat. I eat carnivore, but I grow what people want.

[@peterwebb8732]

Another question is how “religious” some people sound when pushing their favourite barrow. Spread crushed phosphate-rock on your land, to be broken down slowly by very weak acids in the soil, and you are “organic”. Take the same phosphate rock, treat it with a stronger acid to break it down *before* you spread it, and the “organic” crowd will label that “Chemical”. Same phosphate rock. Same process. Same phosphorus and sulphur that plants recognise as essential nutrients. Just quicker. “Chemicals” exist on a continuum. “Conventional” is not one thing, but a spectrum. “Factory farming” is not one thing, but a spectrum ranging from the most artificial to the most natural. Buy according to your preferences, just beware of the hype.

[@scotteric8711]

The US is the only one calling it "Organic." The rest of the world calls it biodynamic. I still feel there is a very large difference anyway. But organics in the US have become nothing but an expensive paywall designed to keep the average citizen out of production, and encourage land investors.

[@LittleKi1]

Paying subscriber here and I couldn't make it through the podcast. Maybe other people want this much pandering. Maybe you guys want the audience to pander to you. I don't know. I do know the time spend railing on could be spent teaching people how to actually solve the problems...instead of fluffing each other up. (sigh)

[@timmartin4442]

This is not informative

[@tomjernigan3010]

Jabber jabber jabber all that and did not say squat.

[@andrewbateman7534]

Salatin has made his fortune using old ideas and misleading people. Salatin is a salesman. I prefer to talk to farmers.