What does this double after a freely bid 3NT bid mean? - with Jack Stocken

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What does this double after a freely bid 3NT bid mean? Is it a penalty double? Or is it communicating something else?
A little known fact is that a double of a freely bid 3NT contract (ie 1NT - 3NT) asks partner to lead a heart. A double of a 3NT contract with a suit bid asks partner to lead dummy's first bid suit.
Hand Viewer - 3NT Doubled: www.bridgebase.com/tools/hand...
Hand Viewer - 4D: www.bridgebase.com/tools/hand...
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[@endthisnonsense7202]

Double should NOT say "Partner, lead a heart, it should say "Partner, find my suit". That comes in handy far more often. It will cost sometimes when partner can't really work it out and has multiple options for "possibly your suit". Change all heart symbols on this hand into spade symbols and vice versa and you see why. The opening lead should of course consider that 1NT-3NT often has a long minor in dummy.

[@BEstudent]

That was more my take on it! Spot on.

[@charleslawson3580]

You can have an agreement that the double can mean lead any specific suit. I’ve seen the double mean lead a club, since many defenders tend to lead a major suit when the bidding has gone 1NT-3NT if they don’t have a good lead of their own.

[@2424masse]

Elwell Double . . . from Whist. Named for J.B. Elwell who died in 1920. Calls for a heart lead. Alertable in ACBL.

[@doughill1945]

In the Soloway this week A top partnership doubled 1nt.3nt for a spade lead. Versace led a heart and instead of going down it made an overtrick. In Italy it means lead a spade apparently and some UK teachers opine a spade. Some in the USA say lead a Club if no stayman. Moral ensure your partnership knows which suit it is.

[@joepitt1192]

I thought it meant as per Andrew Robson the double means “partner put away the card you were going to lead and instead lead your short major”

[@johnworf]

the trouble with that system is - what if you have 3 of each?

[@jonsiduk1]

That's the lightner double ..normally used against slam.

[@timothybolshaw]

As someone who is of the same generation as Andrew, that is also the way I have always played it. It shows a powerful major suit, and tells partner to find it. Besides a running major, it might also be something like S:KQJT3 H:74 D:T9742 C:A where you expect the contact to be down virtually always if partner leads a spade.

[@timothybolshaw]

@@johnworf Few things in bridge are perfect. Usually if you have five or six in one major and, say, two in the other, partner is far more likely to be short in your longer major. Also, if partner has something like three small in one major and honour three times in the other, it is far more likely that partner's major is the one where we lack an honour. On balance, you will beat many more contracts by doubling 3NT with this kind of agreement than will make because you dissuade partner from his natural lead.

[@doughill1945]

@@johnworf see my post above. Versace had 3 in both majors and J of S

[@jenresnik5547]

Very interesting,Thanks Jack

[@emmanuelvacakis4463]

Could be down 2 with a spade continuation and an uppercut ruff with the Jack of Diamonds.

[@chrisabbott5220]

If N in 4D, AH lead, Spades continuation leads to 4 tricks. BUT another spade COULD lead to a fifth trick in D(!!). E ruffs with JD, S over-ruffs w AD. Now unless S finesses W for the missing Ten of diamonds, EW get another trick....!

[@richardfarrer5616]

The Lapworth double! I haven't seen that in years, although I used to know Chris Lapworth.

[@gracielajuda9659]

Bajir I don't understand if this is necessary to alert. And if the opps ask I have to write: asking Hearts?

[@porudobrody2620]

What system are you using in biding? (my bids would be 1C-p-1D-2H-p-p-3D-p/3H-p-p-p) in this system you will never consider 3nt with this hands

[@bridgeboss5371]

Yes

[@jackstockenbridge8841]

The system i teach is standard ACOL so weak notrump and 4 card majors

[@helenpearce9858]

Hi Jack. I hope you will help me with this. I was South and East opened up with 1D. I had 20 points but no cover in diamonds for NT. I had 6 or 7 clubs with the best clubs, so I bid 3C. My partner bid 3H. I only had one heart, so I wasn't sure that asking for Aces was the best thing to do because I didn't know how many points that my partner had, so I bid 4H. We ended up making 13 tricks. What is the best way to get to slam with this hand..

[@jackstockenbridge8841]

Hi Helen It is difficult to say without seeing both hands. What i can say is that nearly all modern bridge players play a jump overcall as weak, 6 cards and 5 - 10 points. With such a strong hand you are better off starting with a double and then bidding clubs. I will also say that it is very difficult to bid to slam as the overcalling side.

[@helenpearce9858]

@@jackstockenbridge8841 Thank you very much for your reply. I got so excited about having 20 points that I forgot about the X. We usually play jump response after partners bid, but I forgot that I was overcalling oppositions bid only and that means a weak overcall.

[@johnworf]

Another solution is to play WIIS...weak/intermediate/intermediate/strong...so your jump bids are dependent on the vulnerability...so green v red is weak...same vulnerabilty is intermediate hands 11-14 points 6 card suits and when you are vul v not vul you are strong.

[@simonh306]

Now I am not too good at this game but bidding 3NT with two very poor suits and only 11 HCP is not a bid I would ever have made. You could end up chasing 3NT with only 23 HCP. Would a transfer to clubs not have been a better bid with an upgrade to diamonds?

[@johnworf]

some people play full transfers...so you can use 2nt as a transfer to diamonds and opener can break or complete depending on their hand type....but most people playing teams would probably just bid 3nt with that holding. By the way - if you use 2S as transfer to clubs and then bid 3D - then how is opener to know you have a good hand or 7 diamonds and a bust?

[@puffinbasher]

In balancing seat over doubled NT, should systems not be on? I don't think 4d is natural there...

[@natekolo6543]

I think systems should be off in the sequence 1NT-(pass)- 3NT-(x): the reason being that you had the option for all your systematic bids already when you bid 3NT. So if you had 5+ hearts it should’ve gone 1NT -(pass)-2d or if you wanted to do stayman or other transfers you also would’ve done them by now.

[@puffinbasher]

​@natekolo6543 I don't mean your standard 1NT - methods, I would assume my systems over a penalty double of other NT contracts was on. So you would have some way to run, but it's probably a transfers system. Rational being the same as over a typical 1NT X, where we almost always want doubler on lead - so I would assume transfers in the run out.

[@user-yv3ny4vb2k]

Yet another reason why we can't put bridge on TV like they do with Texas hold'em. Too many permutations. We've done this to ourselves over time we need to go back to Whist so that the general public will at least be able to follow what's going on

[@mohammadmainuddin736]

Wishful thinking!! Only a novice north- south will bid 3NT!! And what about if east had club suit like heart, so how do you double??

[@christinemuschiato5895]

request heart led

[@Laura7125]

Is there a convention if you had spades and not hearts?

[@jackstockenbridge8841]

No!

[@Kendal2378]

Wouldn’t it be better if the double asked for a major suit lead? Partner should be able to tell the intended major most of the time.

[@rowan7658]

Isn’t it a penalty double ??

[@chrisabbott5220]

It is very much a penalty double, but the very important extra is that it is asking partner to lead H

[@gracielajuda9659]

Excellent!! But you need to play with an expert to play this