What does War Music Sound Like? - It Depends on the Culture

[@faryafaraji]

French Canadian poutine obsessed savage speaks to electronic device capable of recording audiovisual files about cultural subjectivity and cultural relativism in music.jpeg

[@mahm8079]

@ZoomerStasi parthian*

[@armandourkullufanrua2982]

Hi, I would like to know if it would be possible in the future for you to perform the song. ( - ``Senhors, Per los Nostres Peccatz - Early Reconquista Song`` - ) ` Thank you.

[@Migue23227]

​@ZoomerStasi*Iranian (?)

[@Soren015]

I like that you left the hyphenation of "French Canadian poutine obsessed savage" up to the imagination.

[@h0rn3d_h1st0r1an]

Safavid@@Migue23227

[@metabolicsalamanca]

As a Spaniard, discovering that your cat is extremely polite and exquisite in its speech at the very first 10 seconds of the video really makes me stay for more.

[@Subsidiarity3]

What does the cat say though? I think I can catch "puta" and "familia de prostitutas". Not sure if that's polite,,,.

[@gorgosaurusful]

@@Subsidiarity3 "You son of a bitch, let me go or I swear I'm gonna destroy your family of prostitutes."

[@tankermottind]

@@Subsidiarity3 I only caught "hijo de puta" and "familia de prostitutas" so nothing nice...🤣

[@raumfahreturschutze]

Mr. Kitty says "LET ME GO OR I SWEAR I WILL KILL YOUR FAMILY OF PROSTITUTES". I actually laughed out loud! 😄

[@anarosareyes6269]

Certainly as a spanish speaker I can testify he is a very correct and well educated gentlecat

[@LittleGreenMartian-js8wv]

"War music cannot have a little high pitch instrument to sound valiant" Laughs in British Grenadiers.

[@EchoLog]

Original version of the Molgera theme from Wind Waker. Little kid me had to fail that boss fight a few times so I could finish relishing in the shrill whistle lead. It's not the most war, but it's up there when it comes to fight.

[@defnotthekgb8362]

definitely, especially considering on the battlefield you would hear none of that flute and high pitch, but only the drums, although units were equipped with fifers and flutists, it was almost exclusively wing companies like grenadiers and light infantry, and these were ditched in combat in favor of a second/third drummer(or in the case of skirmishers, horns). It was extremely rare to hear a flute or fife on the actual battlefield(mostly because its hard to hear over the sounds of battle compared to drums, and the core reason to even have these instruments was to convey orders between companies and regiments, as well as to the actual privates fighting in the line). Fife and drum was a combo almost exclusively heard on the parade grounds, and so was meant to convey the spirit of war to the populace.

[@hanzzeflamenwerfer]

the spanish cat is truly epik

[@raulpetrascu2696]

What kind of cat is that?

[@quietcat]

The Spanish cat is hilarious 😂

[@MensHominis]

@some2l9 Because the cat is swearing? It could be any other language, why is it insensitive? A cat swearing in Italian would be glorious.

[@lurker69420]

The cat knows the knowledge of all the universe The hard part is getting it out of him

[@aleisterlavey9716]

Have you tried catnip?

[@lurker69420]

you know not a bad idea@@aleisterlavey9716

[@h0rn3d_h1st0r1an]

@@aleisterlavey9716found the main character

[@PanzertruppenLeopard_1]

fr

[@blackfalkon4189]

@@aleisterlavey9716 I tried it was a catastrophe

[@LittleGreenMartian-js8wv]

That part when you talked about the Mazandarani song about the women jiggling her boobs made me chuckle. It kinda reminds me of a traditional Welsh song called Sosban Fach, it sounds like the most ominous, villainous song you would find in a west end stage performance, but it's literally just about a little saucepan simmering on a fire whilst the mother is annoyed because she cut her finger and the cat has also scratched her son.

[@h0rn3d_h1st0r1an]

Eyo timestamp?

[@Pepagg8]

Its such a banger as well

[@june5877]

This actually kind of reminds me of a strange experience I had as a student. Going through the assigned text (Alfred's Adults Book One), there was one particular piece, I believe a Jewish lullaby (Raisins & Almonds), that I played over and over and over, even past the time the course ended because it just sounded so dramatic and kind of haunting to me. That's just a sound that I love, but there was definitely an element of "how is this a lullaby?" Since i couldn't find any information about it online, I just played it over and over hoping to figure that out. I don't really have a conclusion here, just felt like sharing that.

[@sarahr8311]

​@@june5877 I had the same experience hearing "All the Pretty Little Horses". It's... horrific

[@schnetzelschwester]

@@june5877 I just listened to it. I don't think it's haunting. Speed and rhythm make it or make it not a lullaby. Jewish music is very influenced by non-western music (Russian, Middle Eastern, other Slavic), which is not very well understood by western ears. And I guess, Jews had strong experience of loss and hard life, so their songs may have gotten some touch of sadness. Do you know "Heidschi Bumbeidschi", a Swiss lullaby, in which the baby is told that their mother will never come back? Saddest song ever.

[@knobjockey6882]

“War sounds like dubstep” I would literally believe that about Reddit hahah

[@cstockman3461]

It's funny, when you first asked about war music, my first thought was Yankee Doodle, and then you talked about it as a prime example of a war song of the past. Which is fair, but to me, Yankee Doodle is *the* sound of the American Revolution

[@UnrealPerson]

Hell, isn't the melody from a nursery rhyme?

[@Ironchalice]

As a Mexican, I must say, your cat has a most exquisite and refined vocabulary.

[@bernard3303]

What does he say? You know im asking for scientific purposes😅

[@upirrr]

Generally the use of flute and drums during the independence war sounds very natural to me, it's what they had there during marches: flute is small enough to be carried around and drums were used to help infantry columns to keep the rhythm of attacking movement since otherwise the column would break easily. Same goes for stuff like harmonica, it's easy to carry around. As an eastern European i'd assume that most of war-like medieval songs of my ancestors were most likely instrument-less due to usual logistical nightmares during troops movement here, if there was anything then I'd assume it'd be an equivalent of flute and that is it for the most part.

[@EchoLog]

Also things like strings at tension take more care, maintenance, and preparation to sound right. A soldier, slave, prisoner, protestor, etc, who's been stripped of everything, can still probably clap and whistle.

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

Flutes also have a piercing sound due to their high pitch, which is very useful on the battlefield if the point is to coordinate. Signal horns are almost always relatively high-pitched for the same reason. A low-sounding horn just doesn't cut through the noise well enough.

[@faryafaraji]

That’s a great point. We’re often caught up in our modern first world perspective thinking ancient peoples would have produced sounds perfectly correlating to our ideas, but they most often just worked with what they had materially based on their limitations

[@KarolOfGutovo]

@@EchoLog although a taught bow pressed against your mate's helmet on a spear stuck in the ground could make a halfway decent sound.

[@EchoLog]

@@KarolOfGutovo I'm absolutely making a bow & shield washtub bass now, Thank you.

[@Thebluebridgetroll]

It's funny he mentioned the witcher in the context of mazanderani music, because "Lazare" Percival's song that was used as the fight theme in the witcher 3, is literally a Bulgarian wedding song. The chant that sounds so impressive and instills violence in the player is "Wed The Girl" over and over again. Edit: I originally said Polish instead of Bulgarian, my bad.

[@Tudor_Rusan]

Another example of shifts in perception is with Julius Fučik's 1897 "Entry of the Gladiators", a heroic military march. Nowadays it's most famous for being that one silly clowny circus song.

[@GarfielddGarfield]

What’s the difference?

[@heronwireo1085]

More musical subjectivity: "The Sailor's Hornpipe" in the UK is often played by Navy Bands when the King/Queen boards a ship; it apparently has a stately air, or vibe if you prefer, full of tradition and nobility. In the US, however, the same tune was used as soundtrack for Popeye the Sailor Man cartoons in the 1930s. Americans count it as a comic tune, even if they have never seen Popeye. Movies often play it when somebody's boat sinks or other watery mishap. Two modern western cultures, same music/movie tropes, the same music sounds wildly different to different ears. Excellent point to make.

[@heronwireo1085]

You're also spot on about overdoing relativism: Some modern westerner dug out a medieval monastery's operating manual, wherein it stated that monks were obliged to bathe 'at least X times per year' [don't remember the number, but I think it was more than one]. Totally ignoring the abundant woodcuts and paintings of medieval people bathing, generations were taught that 'medieval people didn't bathe!' For crying out loud, monks are into asceticism, and ascetics in many times and places have skipped bathing as penance [let's face it, it's painful]. That very same monastery operating manual, by the way, budgeted a full-time, well-paid bath attendant, so the monks were not skipping all that often. No, towns and villages used public bathhouses rather like Japan today. But never-bathing fit the notion of medieval people as crude and barbaric, which went with modern notions of progress.

[@digitaljanus]

Similarly, Julius Fučík's "Entrance of the Gladiators" march was intended to invoke the grandeur of the Roman Empire, but today people don't associate it with the Circus Maximus, but instead with circus clowns.

[@Cody-5501]

@@heronwireo1085whenever people try to frame medieval people as unwashed I ask if they like being dirty or would they throw themselves into the first lake you see to wash it off. Heck I rinse my hands way more than I need to because I dislike the thought of my hands being dirty. They were people like you and me.

[@Sk0lzky]

I'll go further regarding "some war chants" being high pitched and point out that almost every instance of historical record mentioning "scary war cries" also mentions its higher pitch - a shriek rather than shout or bellowing. From ancient hellenes and turkic raiders to the famous rebel yell and plains Indians shouts they're all ear piercing. Putting that aside, the practical reasons for using high pitched flutes by XVIII and XIX century armies didn't really arise out of nowhere, it wasn't a new problem, saturation with guns just rescaled an old one - if you've ever been to a large medieval reenactment event (or, to be honest, a primary school during break lol) you have at least some approximstion to what an ancient battlefield might've sounded like. You need a really high pitch to stand out from the wall of sound ranging from deep rumble of marching/running people and horses (and chairs being moved aside without being lifted...) to the clangor of arms. We also know that whistling arrows, whistles and such were often utilised by armies, especially cavalry, way before (and after!) the adoption of signal trumpets, although here it's probably a matter of convenience and ease of use rather than anything else. I also dont understand the "war music=drums" belief, especially large drums. You can't just put timpani in your pocket and unpack it on the battlefield lol

[@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp]

"Hip, Hip, Hurrah" was an ancient Celtic war chant, as I understand.

[@defnotthekgb8362]

i think the connotation of war music = drums comes mostly from the use of drums on the battlefield, especially in more recent history

[@matthew_scarbrough]

The rebel yell is a fun one because it sounded like snow geese. That is one we actually have audio recordings of.

[@WretchedRedoran]

The think the war music=drums thing might come from drums being used to maintain the beat of a march

[@skraskraa._.5371]

In ancient China, generals played huge drums to communicate orders and increase morale. It probably had a very deep and thunderous effect.

[@upirrr]

it would be awesome if you could make an overview of war themes in different cultures/ different epochs, what techniques were dominant, etc

[@GA1313E]

I think one human universal is that going to war means alot of marching, camping and physical labour. And carrying a bunch of weapons and equipment around. A second one is that a big bassy drum is heavy, and a flute is light and they can still be quite loud and the sound carries quite far. So in the grand scheme of things, I think flutes make a lot more sense as war instruments than big bass drums. And they would also be a lot more fun to have around to cheer you up when digging yet another stupid ditch, or marching in the rain or to try and have a little fun when you get the chance.

[@adityamohan1773]

This has been my observation Farya, learning Western modes, Indian classical music and now stepping into dastgah music, that when we are dealing with modes there's no meaning to brand a feeling to the entire mode like with the Western modes. In Eastern/Oriental music, musicians were very clear from get go that each of these mother modes have several Avazes/Janya Raga that have a portion of notes or have an emphasis on a portion of notes of this mother mode and they develop a different, specific mood compared to the mother mode. That's a truly good approach towards making modal music. U can find warmth and sexiness in Phrygian then. Find funeral music in Dorian then. Find naughtiness in natural minor. And find spirituality in Lydian, which if you didn't divide the mother mode into smaller modes, you'll have never achieved. And when we get good at this, then we begin to understand that universally a few sets of notes always bring out same sort of mood. Like with the melody of "epitaph of Sekilos", intro riff of "Norwegian wood" etc.

[@Soren015]

This video reminds of a conversation i had with an american friend, about the kind of "soundtrack" of socialism. His immediate reference points were things like Soviet marches, and actually the (completely banging) soundtrack to Red Alert 2 (specifically the Hellmarch.) - all my reference points, as a european, were the sort of rousing optimistic ditties that a lot of us know the melodies and words to, even if we don't know we know. "Avanti Popolo" and "Bella Ciao" etc.

[@Pavlos_Charalambous]

Just imagine people that can't speak Greek hearing the Cretan partisan song " ksasteria" (clear night sky) they will probably think that is a love song or something Until they found out is about having the proper contitions to " make women widows and children orphans" 😁😁

[@vaarkajjunrrato147]

Ah yes Hell march, an outstanding representation of Soviet culture and socialist music lmao. The “European” reference points are much closer as Bella ciao was an actual Italian partisan song and a cover was done by the red army choir

[@intergalacticimperialist9670]

The Aulos goes petty fuckin hard imo, I love it when you use it in your arrangements. Woodwind instruments can be pretty badass depending on the context.

[@dariogutierrez6716]

100%

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

I think a useful thing to do regarding war music specifically is to categorise it depending on the specific relation it has to war. Is it used to tell stories about war or is it used with a practical application in war? Is it something used during the battle, before or after? Is it used to coordinate, lift spirits, or mourn the dead? I bet these questions could account for a lot of the differences between cultural associations with war by explaining some of the cross-pollination you get between the different uses. Like the fanfare on the signal horn used to mourn/honour dead soldiers in the US Army, which originally came from use on the battlefield but through the common association with war, it spread into the other use. Whereas in other western countries, you get a church hymn. Also, I find it interesting how the European idea of the marching drums being a war instrument probably came from the Ottomans.

[@tylerbrubaker6642]

I remember what you said in your video about “throat-singing”, often at times we often have dark connotations, those of us in the west anyway, but to someone who is of Mongolian or Turkic heritage, throat singing would just be regarded as ordinary music. Here’s another thought experiment, if I were to travel back in time to say, Vendel parish Sweden 600 A.D and played the imperial march to a group of men in a feasting hall, they’re minds would not think at all of Darth Vader or stormtroopers, I think that they would imagine the power of Odin and get hyped, maybe a skald would be enchanted to compose a poem around the piece about masculinity, power, etc.

[@alexeyvlasenko6622]

It's just as likely that the Imperial March would sound like brothel music to them.

[@januszbogumil]

I think it is at least as likely that they would find the imperial march quite foreign and jarring rather than be enchanted by it.

[@justincastillo9345]

Came for the war music discussion, stayed for the universals vs particulars distinction. The spanish cat is just the icing on the cake right now. Great video Farya!

[@MrK2890]

Can't imagine what your lady friend felt when she found out about chopsticks.

[@giveussomevodka]

OBJECTIVELY incorrect way of eating, you can't convince me otherwise.

[@EchoLog]

I exclusively use chopsticks and a spork, sometimes together.

[@orthochristos]

🤣🤣 Dude, the cat swearing in Spanish had me on the floor!!!

[@Pure_Copium]

Who do I see? 👀

[@lidu6363]

In Czechia, we have a "sub-genre" of folk songs which are simply called Marching songs, and we also have a long tradition of marching bands... That' what I always imagined "war music" to be like. Rhytmical, with uplifting melody, less like epic movie sountrack and more like kindergarten trip...

[@galvanic.warlock]

The perfect example is Julius Fučík's Entry of Gladiators which is now synonymous with circus and silly video sequences

[@reactionaryprinciplegaming]

I read the description of your video, I thought "damn, it has been a while since I had a poutine", I paused the video, went to get a poutine and finished the video while eating it. Good stuff.

[@OneFlyingTonk]

On 15:25 you are ABSOLUTELY right. It took me months to get used to the drum patterns of many of your songs of the balkans and the near and middle east because of the association it has with me as a Chilean, one that dislikes that styles of music at that, and these videos help me to check my own biases and preconceptions of music. I am making musical ambience for a constructed world and your videos have been absolutely vital in not both learning basic music theory, but to think "hmmm...what if [x] meant [y] instead of [z]" and it has been a very revealing experience for me. Small edit: As a Chilean, war music is generally very similar to cueca, so a guitar, piano and small choir of men ranting about a neighbour or something. It's only thanks to hollywood that war music for me began to include trumpets and drums. (Also I can relate to having "vulgar", "humble" or whatever term the more posh latinamericans or iberians give to our music because we're basically the Appalachians of south america).

[@ÖmerRao-t7n]

Nothing to do with music but I want to visit Chile someday but I only know of one place that I absolutely want to go to (Araucanía) so if you know any places in Chile to visit I would be grateful, much love from Turkey 🇹🇷❤️🇨🇱

[@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person]

One interesting example about how modes can be perceived in different manners in different cultures is Lydian Dominant. Everyone usually associate it with space, wonder and things like that, but here in Brazil, especially in the northeast region, it's associated with the Baião music, alongside Dorian or Mixolydian, depending on what instrument you play. Play a Lydian dominant melody on a piano and it sounds jazzy, play on a synth and it sonds spacey, but play on an accordeon and play the zabumba and triangles with the baião rhythms, which has similar beat structures to many arabic rhythms(I believe Ayoub and Malfuf are the closest to the Baião rhythms, but Baião is in 2/4), and you get Baião music. This thing about rhythm and how it is perceived among many cultures is kinda funny. Here we have a style of music called Funk, which is the most explicit, overtly sexualized music I've ever heard, which makes even american rap sound evangelical christian in comparison(and surprisingly, KZbin let it trend and grow enough to have hundreds of millions of views, just check Kondzilla to see my point), and although most of the beats are based historically on african rhythms, especially some bell patterns, Because of mathematical and patterns, some arabic rhythms like Maqsum would be considered funk rhythms.

[@amirboran]

As a Gilak, I totally relate to how the lyrical content of your folk songs can be seen as kinda goofy; I guess that has to be with Mazanis and Gilaks being historically proximal, both locally and ethnically. Being surrounded by lush rainforests and nice weather has given us a certain carefreeness

[@Dan-sw8tg]

Wow there are rainforests in Iran?

[@theoderic_l]

As a student of anthropology, I really appreciate the deep dive into how culture informs music and your balanced take on relativism vs. ethnocentrism

[@losthor1zon]

When it was stated that "Trumpets usually won't be used to represent a poor peasant" it immediately brought to mind the major exception, or at least one that stands out. Namely, Ravel's arrangement of "Pictures At An Exhibition", the section called "Two Polish Jews, One Rich The Other Poor" where they are portrayed as having an argument - the rich man is represented by ponderous bass notes, and the poor man by the sound of a loud, cutting trumpet.

[@balkanmountains2-3131]

In my experience, having listened to thousands of traditional songs around the world. For a culture, war music often sounds really similar to the music they will play for love songs, laments etc. They will most likely use the same scales for all these different emotions and most likely use the same instruments as well. Of course, this does not apply in every culture but it does in the majority of them. And I am talking about regional cultures, not ''Greek'' or ''Iranian'' where music could be very different from region to region. Also, again, in my experience, this is mosly true about folk music, when listening to high court music of some cultures, there will be more variations, since they are usually more ''sophisticated'' musicaly. This similarity in folk music may be dissapointing to some people, as they want to hear different scales and instruments for different emotions. Quick Note: The song Misirlou is in what the Greeks today call Χιτζασκιάρ (Hijaz Skar) scale not Χιτζάζ (Hijaz) scale. I am not well versed in the original maqam music (Arabic,Iranian,Ottoman) terminology so I do not know if this applies there as well.

[@faryafaraji]

Great thoughts on folk vs court, it’s very true. It’s kind of like Epirotic music, it’s all mostly slow, lots of triple metre and pentatonic. Certain regions just end up with a certain set of sounds and go with those regardless of thematic. When it comes to Misirlou it’s even more interesting, it’s both Hijazkar and Hijaz as it modulates between the two: the lyrics up to “Αχ Μισιρλού μαγική ξωτική ομορφιά” are in Hijazkar, but then it switches to the Hijaz second tetrachord from “τρέλλα θα μου έρθη, δεν υποφέρω πιά” to the end of the melody (and yeah the Turkish and Greek terminologies are identical, Iranian has different names though)

[@balkanmountains2-3131]

@@faryafaraji Omg you're right. I started playing it on my bouzouki after you told me and I just realized that. I've only recently learned these scales (Ρεμπέτικοι δρόμοι), but goddamn how did I miss that, lol.

[@januszbogumil]

I just remembered I had a culture clash of this kind in the wild before seeing this video: I love the Breton tune Son Ar Chistr, which out of context sounded to me full of passion and almost mournful. Then I found out that the title of the song means "Song of Cider", and the lyrics are about drinking cider and flirting with women. It's a drinking song!

[@januszbogumil]

I also remember 9 or 10 years ago I put on a playlist for background music in an art class, which was a collection of traditional and folk music from various cultures that I enjoyed (I was always destined to reach this channel). One of the songs on the list was Arto by System of a Down, and an Armenian student was quite surprised to hear what in her culture was a traditional funeral song (Der Voghormia, which Arto was a rendition of). She didn't seem all that offended, but I am still embarrassed about it to this day!

[@petrospetromixos6962]

As a Greek Spartan music you put looks very warlike to me, also Pyrichios dance is very war like

[@BigBadWolframio]

All Spanish-speakers nodding along your cat's wisdom 😌

[@abbasalchemist]

Fantastic video Farya Faraji! Regarding aesthetics, the ancient Greek aristocracy began adapting Oriental dress, longer hairstyle and flowing expensive robes and culture. (Like you). They called it Habrosune, to distinguish themselves from other aristocrats and display their elevated status.

[@FleursetRebellion]

About subjectivism, I think there's a strong point to be made about universals flowing from practical restrictions in people's lives, while subjectives flow from multiple generations building different associations for things without the original restriction. You mentioned the beard's relationship to masculinity, which like obviously beards are inherently masculine in all cultures today, and probably always will be. (Nobody @ me here, I'm literally transgender, that's not a transphobic statement.) And thats because of course the idea of masculinity has always been tried to the "unique" sex characteristics produced by testosterone. That WAS a universal restriction, therefore it produced a universal cultural signifier. And I say "was" because theoretically with modern hormone therapies, that restriction is gone... sort of. Except it's not really. I mean, after all, its like what 2% of people are transgender? That means 98% of people in any given culture will still be held to the restrictions of testosterone and estrogen. Meaning, even for us trans people, we live in a world where we will always be an exception to the dominant cultural associations. A trans woman with a beard can be personally a very feminine woman, but her beard will always carry a masculine association by virtue of the material restrictions of hormones and statistics. In that position it's still obviously fair for trans people to ask others to not be total cocksuckers about it, but like misunderstandings kind or come with the territory and aren't inherently rude/presumptive. So like even when people aren't being rude, being trans is kind of inherently funny for these reasons? It's like some Shakespeare crossdressing mistaken-identity humor just randomly sprinkled into my day-to-day. Anyway, this could all tie back to music too, I think? Tbh most of my personal "insight" here is more like about my experiences with how western culture sees gender. But I think it can work as an analogy, and we can recognize how material reality creates universals but also opens up for exceptions. Like, for example, people mentioned in other comments about high pitched sounds making sense for war in certain time periods because it cuts through other sounds on a battlefield, etc. The material reality informed the cultural one, but the changing material facts also opened up culture to change.

[@faryafaraji]

Great points. A similar example it makes me think of is blonde hair. Blonde hair *technically* isn't the unique property of Europeans anymore, with hair dyes being available. Something like half of Iran's female population has blonde hair now, but the intrinsic association with Westerners remains.

[@TheThingInMySink]

War music even in one period in one specific area can also vary A LOT, compare ''Over the Hills and Far Away'' to ''Johnny I Hardly Knew Ya'' or ''High Germany''. There are jolly and raunchy songs of soldiering like ''the Rambling Soldier'', melancholic songs about the friends you've lost like ''How Stands the Glass Around' and ''Here's to the Next to Die''. Patriotic songs like ''When Cannons Are Roaring'' and the well known ''British Grenadiers'' as well as humorous and somewhat ironic songs like ''Ye Madcaps of England'' and ''Rogue's March''. All of these are ROUGHLY contemporary, but have very different themes and messages. Really when someone asks ''what does war music sound like?'' you almost have to ask what does war mean to that specific person? What does he mean by ''war music''? Because a song about death and suffering is hardly going to be the same thing as a bombastic patriotic song about beating the French for sweet Queen Anne. This is to say nothing of specific regional and cultural variations just within Europe itself.

[@223sushi]

Lmfao, I agree out of all Iranians persians were always the classy ones. As an azeri I know lots of idioms, sayings or phrases in azari that people would use very casually that would include alot of what people would consider swear/vulgar words. It would make a Persian shocked lmao. Farsi always had a classier way to say the same things

[@celtofcanaanesurix2245]

interestingly enough that mode described as dark by most westerners to me comes across as "mysterious" or "exotic" but maybe that's because I have heard it in it's native context without actually understanding the meaning more than I have in it's western context, I can however see where it might come across as seductive.

[@ogrynmod1765]

To me as a Greek it sounded more like a mother putting her child to sleep.

[@SiddharthS96]

Loved this video as always! Really related to your point about the double harmonic being called "evil" in the West, I always found that strange since here in India, the equivalent raga is considered peaceful and meditative, usually played early in the morning.

[@smergthedargon8974]

I've never heard it called evil here in the west - imposing, maybe, but not evil.

[@IzzyManDude]

I keep forgetting that you're Quebecois. Also, you are based. Who gives a crap about the people who have certain "biases" criticizing you. As long as you are an Independent Thinker, you are on the right track. One more thing. Sons of Mars, and your renditions of both Palastinalied and Skye Boat Song are my favorites. Especially the Skye Boat Song. My Scottish pride will never waver.

[@Zorwan]

16:00 😂😂😂 17:25 This is an amazing comparison. Thanks for bringing this to light. 21:39 and 22:34 Great points. Everything should be in moderation and in fairness!

[@latifakudsi1376]

Some people use music to travel "non-physically"... I think that is a great way to discover many things around the world and its cultures and the variety of concepts that one can find... But being able to accept and emphasis each and every way that different cultures introduce their own music of any category, this is another level of awareness. To live in each experience as its the only one that introducing the only meaning of "war, love, peace, revenge, glory, sacrifice....etc.", absorbing the energy it produces, without any pre-expectations and so, building a clear image in their perception and way of seeing things, it is really a bless! This kind of dealing with every concept in every field through life and not only music, is the greatest favour someone does to him self. Acceptance!

[@lordofutub]

Whether cultural or to fight patriarchy, your eyes are smoldering with that eyeliner. It really accentuates the nice qualities of your piercing eyes.

[@Ronin____5000]

Wow. Much more love and respect to you for this insight.

[@finngreek]

As someone who listens to a lot of modern Greek music (esp. laiko pop), I just think of Phrygian~Dorian as the default, in the way that I associate Ionian with Anglo-American etc. modern music. I guess that the brightness of Ionian makes Phrygian sound dark in contrast. However, Phrygian is just as suitable for a painful love song as it is a happy party song.

[@parkerprice6787]

10:55 In reference to the Greek folk song whose name I cannot spell (auto-caption says it's "Michelle Lewis")-- I've actually heard this song on tiktok used by non-greek speakers to set a tense and foreboding tone. Fascinating to learn what it really means.

[@central_scrutinizr]

Misirlou :)

[@sgt.badhombre9173]

15:07 As a latino, yeah, i associate that rhythm with that kind of genre. Which it sucks because i cannot help it. Its the reason why the Hikanatoi - Epic Byzantine music was troubling me in one fragment that had that rhythm. Where it says " Polataetiton vasileon!" and "Vivat imperator". Dont get me wrong, its still one of my favorite songs you have made. But that small fragment always bothers me, lol. But i know Reggaeton was not your intention.

[@fantom_rr595]

thats so true😂😂😂 it even gets worse with my stupid ass imagining justinian twerking to this

[@alkibiadespapaparaskevopou8278]

Just a funny note from Greece on the matter of men wearing eyeliner: There is a TV period drama currently on, The Witch ( H Magissa), set in the early 19th century, just before the Greek revolution against the Ottomans. It is basically about two rival families, one of pirates and another of more refined and educated rich merchants who live in Mani, in the Peloponnese. The men in the pirate family are all wearing black eyeliner, which gives them a more eastern look, adding to the characters a certain masculine harshness rather than any level of femininity or charm. It reminded me of how Ottelo is often depicted in the theatre or in Verdi's opera, perhaps a nod on the dark hair and skin that makes him an 'exotic foreigner'. Needless to say, many 'critics', and reviewers of the show commented negatively on the choice of make up for these characters finding it anachronistic (!) and weird, probably due to lack of awareness of eastern/tribal cultural norms and historical references. Thanks for your wonderful inspirational work on world music through the ages.

[@schnetzelschwester]

Pirates actually used eyeliner to protect the eyes from the sun in the sky and reflected by the water.

[@ZiqM4]

Brillian breakdown on a tough subject, thanks for doing the research on it i learned alot. Love the music you put out, Bless you brother.

[@nepoznatiartist]

@ 8:00 That reminded me a lot of the bećarci folk songs we have in certain parts of Croatia, Serbia etc. There are sooo many sexual ones. As a Serb from rural Croatia, I can relate to the hillbilly comment haha. Wouldn't change it for anything tho, we are the best parts of our countries ;) Would love for you to hear Ja Sam Novi Vozac by Mica Trofrtaljka (not a bećarac but still) and its translation. Safe to say I wasn't shocked by WAP at all.

[@nagual1992]

Talking about different interpretations of music, Dark Ambient scares people but calms me and even helps me sleep. I always interpreted this as a side effect of my PTSD.

[@Mezelenja]

The idea of war music having to be big and bold sounds, and if it not, then something is wrong just shows that alot of people are only into history for the hoo raah manly man nonsense and not actually because they care about history, culture & the arts. And a lot of the time if they are into the arts and all that it brings, they get really annoying and nationalistic, comparing 'good' & 'bad' cultures instead of just enjoying whatever civilization they took a fancy to. Like you said, It all stems from people not checking their internal biases. Too many people refuse to see the world from a perspective other than their own. P.S. If i was mid battle and that yankee doodle ahh music started going I woulda started fighting for my life. Aint NO WAY im getting clapped with that goofy ass song playing.

[@syystomu]

For context: I'm Finnish and I was born in the 80's I always really struggled with these ideas of what kind of emotion a particular kind of music was supposed to evoke. I remember my parents taking me to this like... idk music club is the closest thing I can think of to call it I guess, and the teacher would try to teach us the difference between major and minor by asking us to tell him of the tune sounded happy or sad, and I just didn't get it at all. I think I just kinda associated a slow tempo with sadness and a fast tempo with happiness tbh I might have developed a bit more of a sense for this now but I still can't actually tell major and minor apart and music theory in general is just something that my brain doesn't seem to comprehend at all. Dunno what's wrong with me but it is what it is. And at least it means that I never had any illusions about my musical sensibilities being universal because they clearly weren't so even within my own culture

[@depressedcryptid]

I'd say there's absolutetly nothing wrong with you and that's just the way your mind is structured, perfect the way it is!

[@lomionaredhelion]

Farya, do you plan on making a video on Mazandarani folk traditions (music, tales, cuisine, clothing)? I'm pretty sure many would be interested in knowing more about Mazandarani culture. (Would you do a vid about Québec folk music? Asking for a, uh, friend) PS: « FLATTE-MOÉ » is exactly what goes through a cat's mind when they want attention. PS2: Don't tell the girl about eating with one's hands or chopsticks, she may never recover from the shock. PS3: Did you go to UQÀM to have such a discussion on beards 😂 (stereotyping ik sorry uqam)

[@Afrologist]

13:45 to this very day "Somalian Pirates We" by Southpark is what immediately comes to mind when someone mentions pirates, while others usually think of the Hollywood movies. Music is entirely subjective, but the beauty of music also transcends cultural boundaries. I love Greek music, I'm glad you gave them a shoutout.

[@hakonsoreide]

Most disagreements or criticising on KZbin and elsewhere stem from people not knowing that so many things socio-cultural or perceptual are not objective reality but often a purely subjective experience based on social or physiological conditioning. And it's actually hard to blame people for that a lot of the time since it's such a basic hard-wired process in how our brains work and try to make sense of the world around us by sorting it into recognisable (and unalterable) patterns. It is our default position, as human beings, to believe that what is true for us is true for everyone else, and it can be very difficult to override this with the combination of logical reasoning and empathy required to understand that isn't always the case. In fact, it is hardly ever the case, except of course the socio-cultural patterns we share with most of the people around us make it seem like it's always the case. Even when you know about this, you can often find yourself easily falling back into the habit of seeing or feeling something entirely from your own point of view, forgetting that there are others. It takes effort to accept the validity of what others know or experience, and even the meaning of entire cultural paradigms different to your own. Not everyone is willing or able to make that effort; or even able (it seems) to recognise that anyone else's experience even exists in the first place. Within the differences, however, there are many similarities, but people tend to focus on the differences rather than the similarities since that, too, is a human instinct for recognising the potential threat from someone of another "tribe". There are many musical universals. For starters, the concept of music in itself, its basic building blocks of melody and rhythm, and how it seems always to have been interconnected with storytelling and ritual, something that brings us together and connects us as human beings. Music is one of the most basic expressions of human culture, but just like language sounds and combinations of them evolved to mean different things to different cultures, so our music has evolved culturally dependent semantics.

[@thethirdtime9168]

Another wonderful video worth really addressing. Mostly because of the frustrations and sadness I feel about it, but at least for different reasons than before. I wish to know what music people listened to in the past. I am so devastated that I will struggle to grasp it because of my own position, and that recreation is so hard because the biases will also be present in the majority of artists attempting recreation. But the exposure to other culture's notion of spiritual music and folk absolutely makes up for it. Thank you.

[@dariogutierrez6716]

NOOO GATO CÓMO VAS A DECIR ESO?? now fr, love learning with Farya.

[@kutwor5506]

Asking for a Tocharian song day 16

[@whyukraine]

seconded

[@darthplagueis13]

Well, there was a time when there was minimal bathing in europe, but it wasn't the medieval era. People in the Middle Ages really loved their bathhouses as a rule (as a fun game, you can look up how many German cities have the prefix "Bad", meaning bath. Pretty much any place named Bad anything had a more or less noteworthy bathhouse or therm at some point). It should be noted that in the time when people did actually bathe very little (mostly the 17th century), that doesn't mean they necessarily had bad hygiene. Hands and head would still be washed normally, the rest of the body would be wiped down, albeit with minimal water usage, and quite importantly, they made sure to change clothing often. We're talking about something that was particularily common in higher social classes, who both: 1: Could afford to change their clothes at least once a day (and wearing clean, dry clothes at all times goes a long way to keeping you clean) 2: Didn't need to engage in physical labour, meaning they didn't sweat as much. I think it's important to consider that bathing and showering, whilst a very common way to keep clean these days, is not the only viable way. These people certainly didn't wallow in filth, but they believed that submerging your body in water too often would prove detrimental to ones health.

[@tigressjime3485]

As a latinamerican. I enjoy dembow as much as sufi music. Is lovely to hear you speak so relaxed about this. ❤❤

[@memelordmarcus]

I think the thing you said about eyeliner might also be related to how men, on average, have naturally longer eyelashes, so drawing attention to them or making them appear bolder would sort of increase that effect or make it more noticeable. The thing you said about how it was used to protect the eyes from the sun is also probably a factor in it as well. But I always knew the fact about the longer eyelashes, because it made me think about how women wear eyeliner in my culture today, though you could make a case for it looking more masculine, and it may be why my culture is the exception in that regard.

[@noname-vp6vf]

I think i can give another interesting example of how different cultures perceive music. The piece "Battle Hymn of the Republic" is probably widely known in the US as a patriotic song regarding the civil war. But to the Batak Christians of North Sumatra, they actually took the melody from it and turn it into a christmas song. So yeah literally war music for one culture turned into christmas music in another culture.

[@mitamajr]

@@noname-vp6vf There is also a children's song in Finland about Captain Hook with the melody of When Johnny Comes Marching Home

[@Kerimbeyman]

Are you by any chance in İstanbul? I saw someone on the ferry and thought "this guy looks a lot Farya Faraji" Didnt want to disturb your personal space, but wanted to say that your content truly is unique and very valuable for the education of our common heritage and culture. Thank you for that.

[@faryafaraji]

Omg yeah I took the ferry to Büyükada and back to Istanbul; I’m now back in Canada but next time if you see me, do come and say hi!

[@iionidis]

Avram Avinu is a pretty happy-sounding song that’s in Phrygian Dominant / Hejaz Maqam

[@TheDivision29]

love the video as always 🙏🙏🙏 i LOVED what you said about kohl (in my culture we call it kanmashi) that's 50% of the reasons i started wearing it 🙏💗 i genuinely felt seen re: the beard thing; i'm not particularly well-read, but i remember seeing somewhere that in Qajar-era Iran, women with mustaches were more beautiful than men with mustaches? i remember also seeing a fair few miniatures/early photographs showing some Qajar women. i could be misrepresenting/misremembering though i reallyyy like your point at the end; it seems (most [even this is probably not a universal] [or is it?]) universals tend only be expressed apophatically if that makes sense?

[@faryafaraji]

Back in the Qajar era, it was indeed fashionable for women to sport what little mustache a typical woman without unusual genetic conditions can grow. I was talking about beards though, not facial hair as a whole. You'll be hard pressed to find any homo sapiens population on earth where females can grow a full on beard. All women have a natural amount of facial hair, but almost none will ever be able to have as much as me in the video.

[@defnotthekgb8362]

I think your example of yankee doodle is a perfect one, not only because of its difference to modern "war music" ideas, but also because of the differences between the real song and its actual implementation in the field. Although these songs have fife and drum, and today we think of line infantry marching to these full songs with all these instruments, that really wasnt the case outside of parade. Most companies would ditch their fifes and flutes in favor of more drums, as drums were much better at actually conveying orders(i mean what is easier for you to distinguish, a simple drumbeat or a fife with multiple pitches and complex patterns?). In many armies, companies were never outfitted with fifes in the first place, and they were reserved almost exclusively for "elite" regiments and wing companies(the companies that would be on the sides in parade, grenadiers and light infantry). Even in battle these wing companies still ditched fifes in favor of more drums, or horns. And so even our modern view of these songs isnt quite right to how soldiers and regular people at the time would have seen them, they would have probably thought of the complete song with all its elements as a ceremonial or peacetime element and not one that was actually used in combat. This is especially true of the continental army, and north American armies in general, as light infantry tactics and skirmishing was much more prevalent due to the lack of large numbers of heavy cavalry in north American battlefields(as well as other factors like terrain, and cost).

[@defnotthekgb8362]

I think just the simple fact that so many of these comments on this video reference the fife illustrates your ideas in the best way possible. people DO associate that fife and high pitched sound with 17th and 18th century warfare, even though at the time it was a more ceremonial element rather than one used commonly in battle. Not that it is wrong to do so, but the simple fact that this idea of what music actually sounded like in battle is still misconstrued and affected by modern interpretation even when the songs themselves are from that exact time and WERE war songs perfectly illustrates the ideas you cover in this video.

[@nattoralikk]

Great video as always Farya. It's funny your example with the spoon and fork. I'm Jewish and some of my family are Juhurim (Jews from the Persian Empire who lived in the Caucasus Mountains) and all eat with forks and spoons so for me that's pretty normal (like why use a knife if you don't need to cut anything?) but here in NZ I get weird looks at work whenever I do and have people very adamant that it's incorrect lol Also, completely unrelated, but how on earth do you get your hair looking so good bro? I've also got long dark wavy hair but mine looks like absolute shit whereas yours looks like a Greek god. I need your secrets man

[@faryafaraji]

Your family history is so cool! And thanks for the compliments haha, all the credit goes to conditioners. The secret is really just overusing conditioners until the curls look passable

[@yidavv]

I know that this is a mainly music channel, but I really appreciated and liked your ideas in the last third of the video. The idea of taking things too far, everything being relative, all that. I would love to hear you talk more about these sorts of things. Something that is the middle ground between both culture wars.

[@januszbogumil]

It is funny to me that the biggest musical culture clash for me in this video is the idea of Yankee Doodle as a war song since my main association with the melody is as an annoying tune taught to children in elementary school music classes so it feels like a children's song to me. That is a more difficult paradigm shift to me than the reggaeton beat as sacred to mohammed. My association with the melody aside, it does sound more natural as a military song on the fife and drum, if for no other reason than the fife and drum is strongly associated with the military pageantry of that time. I happen to live in a state with some of the oldest extant fife and drum corps in the US. It turns out Yankee Doodle is also the state song lol.

[@AdamElShalakany]

Been watching for a while from Egypt. Great videos, great content. Question where is this beautiful garden? Looks like heaven.

[@FairyCRat]

As a French zoomer, I can absolutely relate to your point about swear words. My younger sister and I use them all the time to talk to each other; our parents are used to it by now, but felt seriously concerned the first couple of times they heard us doing so. And it's not even just swear words. Still to this day, my mom, who is fluent in English just like I am, thinks I should use the word "hate" less often. Also as a metal fan and musician, phrygian and phrygian dominant are among my daily drivers. They do still sound dark to me, but not foreign (as in, "strange"). One scale that does sound foreign to me is locrian, that one I find too "dark" to use as easily.

[@januszbogumil]

Military historian Bret Devereaux wrote a series on his blog A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry called "The Universal Warrior", all about how there is in fact no universal warrior ideal, and the ideal varies greatly from culture to culture, because war itself varies greatly from culture to culture. So just as there isn't a universal war music, there isn't a universal war culture either. It also explains the idea that 'warrior' and 'soldier' are not synonyms and in fact very different concepts. It's a great read and I recommend people check it out.

[@mistersharpe4375]

It would probably be interesting to compare the evolution of musical conceptions to that of language. Your videos have made it apparent to me that the ideas and emotions we convey in music have as much to do with a kind of unseen language of meanings that changes as we do culture. Also, I’m grateful that, at least from what I’ve seen, you haven’t used these discussions of culture and biases as a cassus belli to attack people. It’s exhausting to see everything devolve into a battlefield, especially where culture is involved.

[@jane_s.]

I know this isn't the point, but while I've never heard of eating with a spoon and a fork, I think you guys are onto something. I can think of a few dishes that combination is useful for.

[@pennyaredreadful]

Even when the french introduced knife and fork to my country, the people opted for fork and spoon. The diet is mostly rice and soup and the occasional noodle so knife is useless. Fork also can't pick up rice properly.

[@faryafaraji]

Yeah as pennyaredreadful points out, rice is the main thing: since most dishes in Iran are rice based, the spoon makes the most sense

[@MaxPolun]

they're not alone: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ-VZ6ipjb6egbM

[@shellshockedgerman3947]

In the Philippines, we use spoon and fork because we mostly eat rice+soup or cut up veggies and meat. I've seen Americans eat rice with a fork, and thats very jarring to see to say the least.

[@Lady_Graham]

If you go to an Italian restaurant that’s how you eat the pasta 🤷

[@Fantazmo_Art]

God, i love your music talks

[@FreeThinker-uc6wt]

So true! An example of my experience is I NEVER thought of Founding Father Dr. Benjamin Franklin saying "Fart proudly." I was raised to look up to them as gentlemen. Culture shock indeed! I now find it funny that Dr. Franklin has a sense of humor and honored that he is my distant Ancestor via 23and Me DNA test via cousins!

[@miastupid7911]

First of all, what John Snow the cat said is enough to jump start any war and f*ck the music. Not needed as the rage is causing the blood pumping in the ear drums loud enough to drown out any kind of music. After John Snow's epic rant, the rest is just semantics. And I believe that is a human universal as you termed it.

[@TrollDragomir]

Barry Lyndon had historical war music played over the battle scenes and I think the effect was incredible, but that movie was pretty hard set on showing the time period in as raw and honest way as could be done at the time. One thing that people overlook in terms of war music is that it was firstly a functional tool, and only later came the cultural significance etc. Where Hollywood is right is that drums and trumpets were common - but not so much to make troops feel more warriory when doing the warrioring. They're natually loud instruments and were used mostly for signalling and synchronising actions. Same reason why so many sea shanties mimic the rythm of work you would be performing on a ship - hauling ropes and so on. Marching music's main function was to keep units walking at the same pace, because unit cohesion on the battlefield since antiquity up to the first world war was a matter of survival. Sound of Aulos, horns or bagpipes travels far, so units would always hear which direction the front of the marching formation was. Yankee Doodle is a good example, it has a marching rythm played on a snare drum and a very simple, easily identifiable melody played on the flute which with its high pitch sound is probably one of the few sounds that could stand out above the screams and gunfire. Medieval war music on the other hand, was almost exclusively a choir of soldiers singing a common prayer together before aproaching the enemy. I think that while being historically accurate, could make for incredible scenes in Hollywood movies, but is seldom used, if, at all. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnrPpKiLasSdnK8

[@Kriegter]

Dude I would be ecstatic if in 700 years people think historical viking music is just Norwegian Black Metal

[@SiamakNaficy]

Farya jaan, well done again! As an anthropologist, I appreciate your correctives. Have you taken a look at the incorporation of Turkish matching music into the e spirit de corps of the Western European early modern era? Mozart & Beethoven each have a piece named after the Turkish military march.

[@danielzsombor4698]

Hi Farya, I have recently watched Infamia on Netflix which has music and mixing of different musical traditions from different cultures as central element of story and conflict. It would be great if you could talk about music as a form of resistance especially in the context of a musical tradition living in a space dominated by a different culture. I would especially be interested in your take on power relations, radical music mixing and the birth of new hybrid music styles. I also recommend Infamia for anyone who enjoys the content of this channel :)

[@Hockey-gn2tj]

Thank you for making kickass music! Been enjoying playing total war Rome 2 and conquering the gauls and Carthage! Along with the Rome mod for blade and sorcery 💀

[@engine4403]

War Season from Lisa the Painful is the peak of that classic view of drum centric war music

[@The0Stroy]

Big drums in war music came with pike and shot formation - drums were used to convey orders on the battlefield.

[@kylemeck1715]

Dude I'm just going through the back catalog now and I legit thought Persian meant Iranian meant Persian. Little interesting nuggets sprinkled all up in these things. Thanks for putting the work in.

[@faryafaraji]

I don't blame you, it's a common misconception that far overshadows the actual meaning of the terms

[@zurielschubert9410]

Yes cultural context is important to define what is war music because different cultures have different definitions. And we dont have to go that far back. In WW2, the Japanese have the song Battotai and it sounds vastly different from how the Europeans would make a war song. Like the Onion Song, the Battalions of the Nazis and so on and so forth.

[@GaiusJuliusCaesar_SPQR]

Nice Video. I love your music.

[@yannickramouillet3742]

Since I first watched your videos, I immediately thought you looked like an Achaemenid king, it's really a beautiful style, I don't quite understand why someone would project something else, You really look like their figures of stone in the Louvre museum, absolutely badass lol

[@michaelpotts4001]

So much joy to listen you, I praise your insights in to history.

[@frislander4299]

'Double Harmonic Phrygian', also known as raag Bhairav/raga Mayamalavalagoulai i.e. (among) the first raags taught to Indian Claasical Music students in North/South India respectively (and Bhairav specifically comes off as serene, as in Lord Shiva/'Bhairav' deep in meditation).

[@DuffTerrall]

Regarding the sound of the U.S. Civil War, my mind immediately went to the Randy Edelman score for Gettysburg. Its got its collection of modern martial music, but the theme i mainly associate with the actual moment of combat is a piece that is acoustic guitar under flutes. It makes complete sense in context of a fife and drun corps. So yeah, it is definitely influenced by film, but they took it a very different direction than the Howard Shore style martial brass.

[@CONSTANTINEXI63]

I don't like how lots of people say war music is always drums and trumpets, because a lot of actually good war music is kind of cherry, and calm

[@NATESOR]

As far as, i suppose, cultural relativism, I like to put it in 2 different columns. Like the "bullshit that doesn't matter column" which is stuff like, how people eat, how they morn their dead, how much they curse. Things that, you might hate this, but things that objectively don't make a difference one way or the other as long as everyone participating in it consents. I think people can go too far in that there can be some cultural norms and customs that are actually very much hurting and oppressing people or violating their consent. And that's where we do have the right to stop and say "well this is shit that does actually matter." Off the top of my head "Christians" banning abortions or ISIS doing ISIS stuff. Extreme examples, but I think there is a point where we need to say, "Hey... this isn't something that's tolerable any more, this is objectively hurting people and it's wrong." There's a trend in the West to always take the first column on all issues, or even go into moralistic nihilism. (I've seen people, with complete sincerity say that slavery during Roman times wasn't immoral because... the Romans didn't think it was. The thought of the Romans being wrong never occurring to them.) And look, I get that trend. Because there's a horrible history of Europe using shoddy moral imperatives as an excuse for imperialism. So, yeah, a big caution when judging other cultures, but I still think that sometimes it's valid to do so.

[@horsemumbler1]

2:39 As an American with roots in and who was taught the history of the Revolution, my immediate thought was fife and drum music. There really wasn't much else available besides voice and fiddle, perhaps a concertina and maybe guitar if someone had been to Spain or at sea... the musical vocabulary was limited to that which could be produced on the frontier with little education of music beyond growing up with the folk tunes of one's family and the nearest town, drawn mostly from England with a smattering of French German And Italian. Mamy of the most sophisticated musical organizations on the Continent would in fact be the military band and the chamber groups of the officers and thier families. For an excellent example of period music, see Songs and Music if the Redcoats by The Druids. The military music of that culture and era was very much a mix of the light and airy, hopeful and idealistic, over the dutiful tattoo of drum and the mournfull melencholy of the short, cold, hot, wet, and dry lives and deaths of the men who took the shilling and followed the drum, be it in defence of their farm or to get away from it, over the hills and far away. Music has long been not merely, nor even primarily an artistic reflection or representation of reality, but a tool for controlling or escaping it.

[@horsemumbler1]

While listening to the above mentioned album, Songs and Music of the Redcoats by The Druids, I notice hiw simultaneously ornate and simplistic the militarily music is. For the frontier, it's vary fancy. It's ordered and precise, almost delicate, but steady and rhythmic character embodies the military of the time - bright colors clothed over a very dirty bloody painful job To the modern ear is sounds almost like a school recital, simple and quaint, but for the time and place it was the cutting edge of applied imperial power stretched across an ocean to the land beyond.

[@WretchedRedoran]

When I clicked this video, I my take on "What does War Music Sound Like?" was - whatever gets the guys listening to it pumped for battle. I suppose I was right. But I mean, think about it, and the lessons from this video. Ever played an online competitive shooter, and listened to some music while playing a game, and found yourself getting hyped when listening to a song that you typically wouldn't consider befitting of being listened to while playing the aforementioned game? It's like that, I imagine.

[@Ithirahad]

As a westerner I never registered double harmonic major as 'evil'... maybe it's just what happens if you throw way too much polyphony on top of it. I can see the imperial/royal vibe though.

[@peterrosengrenwallin810]

I remember watching a documentary about how Sibelius "Finlandia' had an emotionally response on Finnish WWII war veterans that was measurable as a pain experiance. Don't know if Finlandia was played alot during the war, but the association was strong. Just thought it interesting in relation to the subjekt. Thanks for very god and educational content. 🌻