What Everyone's Getting Wrong About Student Loans

The group with, on average, the worst outcomes...who are most likely to default and least likely to receive benefit from their educations are, for some reason, never a part of this conversation and I think it's very odd.
Much love to all of the people in this situation, I know there are many watching, and I really hope we can do better by you and others who are in similar situations.
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[@rooseveltrdPR]

I am one of these students. I dropped out twice due to lack of direction and lack of mental health support. Now in my mid thirties, can't afford the time off work to try to finish, and have a glass ceiling in my field due to my lack of degree. And still $10k in student debt. Thank you Hank for making me feel seen.

[@megbennett4363]

It is possible to work and go back to school, I work full time and and am computer science major full time, I’m almost done with community college and transferring to a 4 yr university. Don’t give up. Online school is made for those who are older with the motivation to go back to school.

[@chadpickett8154]

I'm in this same boat. Went to three separate schools because people kept telling me that it was the best way to advance but they didn't understand that I'm neurodivergent and don't have as easy a time putting pen to paper and focusing in that kind of environment. 11k in debt with no degree. I count myself lucky that i now make decent money and my employer has a program where they help pay off your student loans but it makes me feel so shitty knowing that the reason i can't buy a home, the reason i can't make much of any financial progress in life right now is because FedLoan gave an undiagnosed 18 year old kid more money than he ever needed to learn stuff he didn't care about without preparing me for what that actually meant for my future and how long it would impact me.

[@theblindspot985]

@@megbennett4363 it's pretty easy to say, but it's kinda messed up to tell someone who had to go through the mental anxiety of having to drop out of college twice to just go back and try again adding on to the student debt they have already accrued for the possibility of a higher paying job.

[@gbprime2353]

@@megbennett4363 To be fair, those of us in computer science have it easier than most. Any career field that is primarily done on a computer thrives with online school. Nursing, teaching, and others... not so much. My Bach degree is a checkbox on a job application, but its a danged important check box, sometimes it filled in for "or years of experience." But as the above poster mentioned, not all careers get that "OR".

[@danielsferguson]

I'm in a similar boat. It's never too late.

[@traxathon4464]

We also need to realize that even if all student debt was forgiven tomorrow, it wouldn't solve the problem. The real problem is the fact that the cost of going to university in this country is way too incredibly high and basically forces most students to get student loans if they want a higher education

[@spencerrogers8726]

I would say so many of university students felt that a “traditional college” education (ie 4 year degree) was pushed as almost a necessity. In some fields, that may be true, but so many other promising and rewarding careers can be had without that traditional education. But maybe if a traditional education is going to be pushed as a necessity, prices should be better controlled or maybe even eliminated. I feel both of those things, exorbitant costs and requiring a university degree, shouldn’t coexist.

[@abarbar06]

The reason costs keep going up is because the federal government guarantees loans, so students can take ever increasing loans out, allowing schools to charge more and bloat up

[@mumble3535]

For some perspective on exactly how dystopic American tuition is: The average for one year of study at my university (University of Pretoria) costs about $3000-$4000 (depending on how many modules require lab access) and I believe foreign students pay a flat fee of $250 per year for registration. My fees, even though literally all of my modules require lab access, only amount to $4700 a year. And it's not even a bad uni- in fact, it's a pretty damn good one. It's a research institution and last I checked it's like top 5% worldwide. We also have a few academic exchange programs with foreign universities; like an MIT exchange for aeronautical engineering. Side note: Whenever the topic comes up my friends in the engineering faculty will joke about how if an American enrolls in our university and applies for the MIT exchange program, then they would effectively be paying $3600 for MIT tuition, because the exchange exempts them from MIT fees. Granted, they'd still need to study in South Africa for a year to get the necessary grades to qualify for the exchange, but a year's accommodation here still wouldn't even amount to half the tuition that American students pay to attend in-state universities.

[@randilibin5066]

It costs way too much, and somehow the professors get almost none of it.

[@bbgun061]

@@abarbar06 Exactly! Forgiving student debt would only make the problem worse!

[@The.Dude.Abides.]

The student debt crisis IS the federal government offering student loans and trying to “help”. If the federal government pulled out of loans (or at least capped the amount each student could borrow) colleges and universities could no longer charge the inflated costs they are able to get away with and would need to cut cost inside higher education and focus on actual education. It’s really THAT simple.

[@kaitlyntenters9283]

I almost couldn’t go to school because I didn’t have a co-signer. I went to a state school I graduated with a Bachelors Degree in Psych and I make 50k but have to pay 850 a month for my student loan payments. I am 80k in debt and at this point I wish I didn’t go. Some days I go hungry because I’m living paycheck to paycheck

[@AniketAich-ey6er]

I’m on the tail end of my loans and owe $16k @ 7.76% paying $100/month in interest, which is manageable. I can’t imagine students graduating these days with a bachelors and $150k+ in debt. Even more so, doctors and attorneys graduating with $500k+ must CRINGE looking at those interest payments!!!

[@Kevin76234]

I've paid $60,000 for the $30,000 I borrowed in student loans. I still owe $8700 at 4.75% interest. Now I consolidated it to the direct loan program and put it on 0% interest Income Based Repayment. Hopefully the rest will be forgiven by 2026 since I've been paying since 2006 and they just changed the rules so you can get it forgiven after 20 years of payments.

[@user-gw7tg5wt8v]

I graduated in 2017 with a bachelor’s degree and $68,000 in student loans. I've never missed a payment because I made a smart decision to seek the guidance of a financial expert. With her help, I ventured into stocks and other Fiats. Despite having no prior experience, I managed to save up over $20k and entrusted my portfolio to be managed. I started allocating $5k monthly towards paying off my loan, sourced from 20% of the profits earned from my portfolio. Within 2 and a half months, I was able to fully repay the loan along with the accrued interest. The best advice I gave to myself was to seek professional guidance

[@Kevin76234]

you are right, seeking professional advice helps. A lot of Americans like us don't even have the time and space to think about this. How can I participate in this? I sincerely aspire to establish a secure financial freedom future and am eager to participate. Who is the driving force behind your success in clearing your student loan?.

[@user-gw7tg5wt8v]

Graciela Lynne Schriewer is the licensed fiduciary I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.

[@greysonnorcross7339]

I work at a community college research center and a big focus of our work is in getting adult learners who may have stopped-out of their education and may be carrying unpaid student loan debt to return to college. Having a certificate, degree, or any other type of post-secondary credential increases someone's earning power which in turn enables them to be able to pay back their loans without as large a risk of defaulting. So the good news is that there are a lot of people talking about this and trying to solve the problem, it just doesn't often make it into the headlines.

[@enduringbird]

I didn't know places like that exist. Would you be willing to put the name of your center so I can research more easily and see if there's anything similar where I live? I'm looking for a new career opportunity.

[@greysonnorcross7339]

@@enduringbird It's the Belk Center for Community College Leadership and Research. We are focused mostly on the 58 North Carolina community colleges, but also share out promising practices to help community colleges around the country. You may also want to check out some other research centers and organizations like the Community College Research Center at Columbia University, Achieving the Dream, or the The College Excellence Program at The Aspen Institute to name a few.

[@GSPV33]

Thank you for this.

[@enduringbird]

@@greysonnorcross7339 thank you!

[@LeoMajors]

I love "stepped out" as a more respectful substitute for "dropped out". Edit: I read the word wrong, but I still like the idea.

[@dragonflies6793]

"Students who did not fail but were failed." This line stuck out to me in particular. Thank you, Hank, for talking about this.

[@VesperAegis]

One of the biggest problems in America stems from purchasing things we cannot afford too early without a plan to pay for it. It happened when people purchased homes they couldn't afford in 2008 when they many did not read the fine print, and while the subprime loans were a clear scam, it also was a system that preyed on people who were purchasing things they were unable to afford. We owe every amount of sympathy for those who are struggling financially and the massive socioeconomic disparity in America, but on the other hand, promoting a system which actively encourages people to systematically choose things they may not complete when they should be able to determine that they will not be able to ultimately work and pay it off is not a healthy economic precedent. Before you purchase something that has objective value, make absolute, 100%, 120%, 140% sure that you WILL be able to afford it, that you WILL be able to pay for it, that you HAVE the money for it on hand or can insure that you will have it at a specific point in time. To do otherwise is to defy the laws of physics, a force without an equal and reactive force, to mock conservation of energy, and to say that something comes from nothing. Value must be substantiated in every case, as education does not grow on trees. We should also come to terms with the fact that perhaps it is the case that not everyone needs to go to college, that encouraging people to go into tradeskills, crafts, technical fields, and creative entrepreneurial endeavors is a boon to society which does not always require a degree to fulfill. I am loathe to repeat ad nauseam the Republican talking point of "Gender Studies" degrees, but many ARE going into college and getting degrees that do not pay bills, and this overlaps with those that are likely going into college without a firm plan and drop out due to financial pressure - because the end goal was not tenable financially in the long term. That debt is not justified. There is value in holistic education for as many people as possible, but we should also be more realistic about the student debt issue and try to reach a middle ground rather than forgive everyone en masse with consequences.

[@RialuCaos]

@@VesperAegis As nice as it sounds, there is no way to determine with 100% certainty that you will be able to repay something, because that requires knowing the future with absolute certainty. You can make an educated guess, but it will never be even close to 100% when it comes to something with so many variables and risks as investing into a college education/career.

[@VesperAegis]

@@RialuCaos Given how many people currently owe debt, I would say we have a long way to go along the spectrum of being "uncertain" hedging towards "probably not, probably never." There is also a large contingent of people that, instead of immediately going to college at the ripe age of 18, work for 5-7 years at regular jobs or venture entrepreneurship, learn about the world, travel, figure out what they want to do in life, and then when their prefrontal cortex is fully developed go to college with some money and discipline in their pocket. As it stands, most people just follow the prescribed timeline, groupthink it up, and head straight to college without much planning or idea of what the world or life is about. The added bonus is that at a later point, you will probably be more self-sufficient and independent, fiscally and otherwise.

[@losalamos45]

It's going from one extreme to the other, as it often goes in the US. It is not all the student's fault if they end up with no degree, but to implicate that it is simply the sociaties fault is also false.

[@sarah.weaver]

@@VesperAegis dude, I have $20k in federal student loan debt from my trade school. Trade schools aren't the answer to everything.

[@Yukiwodashite]

I left school with about 50,0000 worth of debt, because I went to school, studied abroad, and worked an upaid internship while paying rent in D.C. for 5 months. Even with all of this and the many jobs I've worked I had often been told in interviews that I didn't have enough experience. College isn't optional for certain fields, its basically mandatory. And its crazy when entry level jobs tell you that between college, internships, and work experience that your still not experienced enough for their liking.

[@billbradley5296]

50 million???? Musta been a Waldorf school 😂

[@dangeroreilly2028]

@@billbradley5296 Or 500000? six digit number, but still a lot of money....

[@tarico4436]

Number One: I gave you a thumbs up. Number Two: The importance of spelling got smashed into my head my freshmen year at the University of Oregon. Prof basically embarrassed me in front of forty people, then said if you're not 100% sure of a word's spelling, you have to look it up. I misspelled 9 words in the first paper I turned in for that class, got a D for a great paper because of me doing the ol' "your/it's" thing, just like you did in your comment, Yuki. Anyway, I've been looking up everything since. Recently, I wrote and rewrote and rewrote and revised and polished something that was over 100,000 words, and in it I used the word breech three times. Well, there's a breach too! So you guessed it: one of my breeches needed to be a breach. Had to retype the whole thing.

[@ChristopherAbelman]

My folks and I moved to the Bay Area a few years ago and I’m thinking of purchasing a single family home, but with real estate prices currently through the roof, is it still a good idea to buy a home or should I invest in stocks for now and just wait for a housing market correction? I heard Nvidia and AMD are strong buys.

[@PennyBergeron-os4ch]

it’s a personal decision, but Forbes says housing activities will remain stagnant for the most part of the year, so maybe hold off a little.

[@FinnBraylon]

Some Ai companies are rumoured to be overvalued and might cause a market correction, I’d say you go with a managed portfolio, but even those don’t perform so well, so it’s best you reach out to a proper fiduciary to guide you, that’s what works for my spouse and I.

[@HildaBennet]

this is all new to me, please?where do I find a fiduciary, can you recommend one?

[@FinnBraylon]

SONYA LEE MITCHELL is the manager I contact. Just research the name. You'd find necessary details to set up an appointment.

[@FinnBraylon]

Don't be hesitant to look up Sonya Lee Mitchell and follow her directions.

[@JesseHires]

I am a software engineer on the verge of retirement. I still do it because I still enjoy it. I initially was against student loan forgiveness but then talked to a young man who was an intern at my company. When I went to school I took out loans that amounted to the price of a nice German car. I paid off my loans in the first two years of employment and then bought that German car my third year. On the other hand the intern was in debt to the value of a house for the same if not lesser amount of education. At this point I realized that our education system, much like our medical and insurance systems are designed to extract as much as possible from those paying instead of providing for the greater good.

[@lh3540]

Now imagine you're female, and couldn't ever break into the software industry, and work at Target.

[@JesseHires]

@@lh3540 you’re not wrong. My wife is experiencing a case of less qualified men getting hired in the same industry after the company she worked for folded due to Covid. Women are expected to be fully qualified where men are given a chance to grow into a role. I’ve seen a lot of discrimination over the years. It still exists but is improving. Still not perfect, but getting better. The number of women I work with increases each year but there are still obstacles. I wish you luck.

[@JadeGarza]

Thank you for being open-minded, and willing to change your mind and then share that perspective.

[@popenieafantome9527]

Doesn’t help school increase tuition as time goes on. Durning lock done, tuition was increase because it was a “needed cost” for online learning despite the fact the many of the buildings on campus were closed. And those closed buildings are generally “free” to us because it is included with our tuition. A lot of the cost of online learning was still on student and professor side either way. HW sent via email, pc with mic/webcam, and even pre lockdown we were expected to pay for homework if professor used an online service for it.

[@Spooky-Sara]

It frustrates me so much sometimes because my dad (who is probably older than you) always talks about how easy college is, how he was able to save so much money and pay off loans, etc but doesn’t realize that the cost of attending university has skyrocketed over the years. And I’m attending college during a global pandemic so it’s incredibly difficult.

[@HettesKvek]

We need to stop pressuring young people into going straight into college after high school. Most kids don't know what they would actually like to study in college, and end up taking a gamble on a major that they end up resenting; they end up changing majors multiple times and/or end up with a degree that they can't or don't want to use. The student debt problem is not just about money, it's about our culture's influence that pressures teens into a path that they don't even really want to follow.

[@derekhiemforth]

Also, we need to stop pretending that college is a good fit for every intelligent, driven, or talented person. It's not, and if you feel like it's not for you, that doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, or that you should go to college anyway. We need to do a better job of developing and highlighting other paths of transitioning from 12-year-school into productive adulthood. An enormous racket has grown up around presenting college as the One True Way...

[@velvetteen5090]

Dude some majors have absolutely no career prospects above minimum wage jobs and that's not always obvious. Educational enrichment should be distinct from job outcome and outlined, because unknowing people go in thinking all majors are made equal. Especially going into debt for.

[@juliegeorge3808]

I would have loved a gap year. A chance to do things for myself and to make the right calls concerning schooling. People don't realize what a burnout highschool is.

[@KirtFitzpatrick]

@@juliegeorge3808 exactly this. I fought with my parents to be allowed a gap year before I had ever heard the term. Eventually I caved. I ended up with my major nearly at random and deeply regretted my choice for years. It took more than a decade to come to terms with it. Being forced down that path so quickly set me up for years of unhappiness and underachievement throughout most my twenties.

[@juliegeorge3808]

@@KirtFitzpatrick I'm one of the ones who didn't finish, but got really really close. So I had to deal with the feeling of failure, being mocked by friends who were jealous that I went to school, and my mental health went out the window. Thanks to the freeze I've not had to worry about student loans as much, except for a private loan at 12.5% interest. And worrying about loans in college.totally affected my.experience.

[@Davey_Cakes]

The advice I’d give myself in 2007 (when I graduated high school) is to go to a cheap college or not go at all. The decision to attend a private university was a terrible one and I wish someone had stopped me.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

and guess who supports rewarding that bad behavior the most? democrats.

[@matthewhurt2608]

I paid off my student loans in 3 years. It was very simple. I joined the Army under the student loan repayment program.

[@fleabag2mr.151]

Thank you for your service. Only military should get loan forgiveness.

[@shumoon1]

The G.I. Bill has been an option for 8 decades now. But today, politicians are quite willing to send the sons and daughters of those less fortunate than them to fight forever wars. Anyone signing up for the military in order to pay for college should know this before committing to the armed services.

[@joshtaylor3759]

​@@fleabag2mr.151 no they not

[@mwboy3897]

Could you have been sent to war? If so, probably not so simple.

[@thewinterizzy]

The topic of student debt infuriates me because of how predatory it is in nature. I was brainwashed through my entire childhood that it was not a matter of if but when I would go to college, and that it was absolutely essential to financial success - it’s not, there are plenty of other routes. Between 16-18 I made long-term devastating decisions that will literally impact me until I die. Those who believe “well you should have been smarter/known what you were doing/you did it so you owe that money now shut up” don’t understand how predatory it is. I wasn’t even allowed to drink or vote, but I could loan out thousands of dollars? Infuriating.

[@bbk8168]

Especially if your parents aren’t super financially literate and all the financial aid offices tell you to do is take out more loans.

[@SteeleGolem]

I remember being told things like 'don't let any dollar amount get in the way of your dreams'. That's terrible advice. And why do we presume that people know what they want to do with their lives at 16 when they've just been doing long division in a stuffy classroom their whole lives? We need to redefine education and career building.

[@RialuCaos]

Yep my parents, and society by extension, always told me that I would have to get a college degree to get a "good job" and not work minimum wage. Now I have a degree, 28k in debt, and still get to work minimum wage jobs. I'll never trust others for financial advice again, not that it matters now - they got me hook, line, and sinker.

[@chillsahoy2640]

I find it crazy that we accept that 16 year olds are not mature enough to make long-term sensible decisions around sex, drugs and joining the army (because at 16 we're all still very much developing and not at our most lucid) but somehow we are expected to make a life-changing decision about your education, and decisions around money and loans which will impact you for decades to come.

[@mjinba07]

A number of states now have mandates for high schoolers to complete financial aid applications. Crazy. Google that and contact the legislators.

[@ColMcWillis]

I'm one of the weird numbers of near average loan amount drop-outs that fully paid their loans. I wouldn't be angry at anyone for forgiving what I worked to pay. My life would have been easier if my loans were forgiven and I wish that blessing on others if even if I couldn't receive it myself.

[@free22]

You are rare. Many people who have paid off their school loans act offended at the idea of loan forgiveness. It is almost like they want others to suffer because they suffered. Some people who served in the military to pay off their loans say that everyone else just needs to do the same. Never mind that many people in this country couldn’t even qualify to enlist in the military due to health reasons.

[@nessazee]

+

[@placeholdernameisplacehold7671]

@@free22 It is pretty insulting, imagine sacrificing your salary and time for something only for someone to be offered it for free. It makes you feel stupid for putting in the work, its unfair, it goes against how we were told society should work

[@free22]

@@placeholdernameisplacehold7671 Look, I understand that paying down student loans is hard. I paid student loans for years and for a long time, it limited my options in life. But wouldn’t you want those who come after you to not have to go through this as well?

[@free22]

@@placeholdernameisplacehold7671 I also want to add that school loans are not the same as they were 10-20 years ago. Student loan packages that students are now receiving are much higher than those given to students 10 or 20 years ago. They have more than doubled over the last 20 years. This has gotten out of control. I also recognize that not everyone has had the good fortune to have a good paying job after graduation so I don’t expect others to have the same experience as me. Some people with jobs have been paying their student loans for 20 years and have barely made a dent.

[@RoyalCruiseNews]

I graduated in 2010 with a bachelors degree and $68,000 in student loans. I’ve never missed a payment but unfortunately I’ve never been able to make more than the minimum payment and I still owe $49,000. The problem isn’t the loans, it’s the repayment terms and the variable interest rates. Private student loans are predatory. I’ve paid $900 every month for the last 120+ months that’s a minimum of $118,000 to the banks, with plenty more to go. This is where the government needs to step in. There’s no maintenance required on my loans, they just keep raking in the cash, and when I signed for those loans at 18-22 I wasn’t made aware that some might be 20 year notes… I had no clue, just that I needed them to attend college and get my degree to have a good life.

[@TumblinWeeds]

For $900 a month to all go to interest, that means you took out a $68000 loan at 16% interest. Which is insane. That’s approaching credit card levels of interest but at a far far larger scale. While the private loans are certainly predatory I don’t see why anyone would agree to a deal like that

[@RoyalCruiseNews]

@@alphathefirstone1222 computer information systems (business management/computer science/network administration)

[@ocean12]

Tax payers should not pay your loans You signed for them without understanding them. We didnt. The fair avenue would be for the govt to not charge any interest and work w you on a manageable payment plan.

[@estellar8186]

​@ocean12 not many people feel they shouldn't pay their own loans. They just feel they shouldn't pay double what they took out. It's the interest that is the problem. Not paying what they took out. You get that right?!?! Sure some want handouts but most just want to pay what they borrowed and some normal interest. You can borrow 50,000 and pay for 10 years and still owe 46,000. Majority don't argue they need to pay the 50,000 back.

[@ledzeppelin1212]

The government needs to step OUT, not IN. Ever since the government got involved, the price of school has been increasing significantly faster than the rate of inflation. My compromise is the government can forgive some debt for the people in need while promising to relinquish control of loans over the next ten years. People who got screwed get helped, and the government never screws over students with loans they can't afford to pay back ever again.

[@nospamallowed4890]

You cover several valid topics. I think the key flaws of our system are these: 1) Out high school system is awful. I will never be able to understand why we would ever allow a student to graduate to the next year, and much less high school if they did not learn the subjects. 2) There is too much encouragement to get into college degrees that will not sustain you financially after college. I would even say that student loans should not be even available for those degrees. That should ensure that only the most dedicated to those fields embark into them, and are not buried by debt they can't pay. 3) There are critical fields - like education and nursing - that are always chronically understaffed. We need more scholarships for them. 4) We need a way to encourage brilliant people no matter what their background is. Rather than forgiving loan debt we need free tuition anen guaranteed admission for the top students of each high school, regardless of school quality. But not stop there... they should also be tested and if necessary given free remedial semester(s) if they need them before startingnregular classes, as it was not their fault that their high school sucked. That would give them an equal college start and higher chance of success.

[@Ryan-ts3py]

The reason education and nursing are chronically understaffed has nothing to do with their degree requirements and everything to do with the working conditions. Look at turnover rates and how many people only work in the field for a few years before leaving completely.

[@cmerr2]

The one question I can't seem to get around is: "How do you forgive student loans on one hand (essentially admitting the system has failed), yet continue issuing those same loans to new students?" Any solution here HAS to hold colleges accountable to student outcomes.

[@M4nusky]

IMO it's also a bitter pill to swallow for those who paid back their loans...

[@tkdyo]

This is why most people who support loan forgiveness also support universal college. Government backed student loans are a half measure. At the very least, they need to make student loans bankrupt eligible after a certain amount of time. Guessing that would also put downward pressure on what colleges try to get away with charging. We let people go bankrupt for bad business decisions but not education ones.

[@twojuiceman]

+

[@austinshoupe3003]

Colleges are already being held accountable, but it's creating a whole host of other problems. The loans need to be prioritized by economic need. Millennials were pushed in to college with little guidance. The economy didn't need most of us when we graduated. Colleges can't fix that.

[@lh3540]

There needs to be a standardized price per credit hour like interests rates, and the resort-schools with their football stadiums can figure the rest out through foundation gifts.

[@graemebloodworth8991]

I'd be really interested to see a longer breakdown of the topic in this video with maybe a follow up on the economics of student loan forgiveness. (I am one of those 28k debt people and am very much in favor of widespread loan forgiveness, but i am also not an economics major)

[@kimyoonmisurnamefirst7061]

I'd like that and a contrast to the kind of government programs my (white Jewish) grandmother benefited from in the 1940's-1950's. The government dragged her out of poverty, though at the cost of black people with blocking black people from getting the same benefits of sponsored education, housing grants, etc. Some people attribute the 1950's successes to many of those programs.

[@ArthurPMotta]

From what I understand, although I'm not an economist either, it seems that a big part of this problem is the awful deal that the U.S. federal government made with these institutions by agreeing to back student loans without regulating tuition prices. It's basically free money for schools since they can raise prices as much as they want because there's no risk of not being paid. Suppose my friend owns a bakery and I tell him to give bagels to the homeless and if they don't pay it back then I will. If my friend says "Cool, so my bagels now are 200 dollars a unit" I'm backing out of this deal, because he's clearly trying to take advantage of me. Shouldn't the government do the same?

[@dahleno2014]

I honestly kinda like the $10k reduction plan that Biden has floated. The biggest thing is getting it to pass, and the GOP likely would view a larger forgiveness (or total) as too much and vote it to hell. But, with $10k/student, I think it may be more economically viable. For many people, 10k is a large chunk of their debt, and it might be viable.

[@lyndsaybrown8471]

@@dahleno2014 That sounds pretty good. A lot of people who earn degrees will actually be able to pay off the loans, so a cap actually sounds like a good idea, with maybe full forgiveness for people coming out of low income households.

[@bhangela]

+

[@Dustin_Townsend]

I big problem causing debt without degrees is affirmative action. By lowering standards for certain groups, you increase the chance they could be somewhere above their successful level.

[@ghostoftheashplant1471]

Finally someone is talking about college dropouts lol. Thank you! My partner and I met in college and we both had to drop out (she's part of the 3% that drop out due to mental/emotional health issues and I'm part of the 5% that had general health problems). It still amazes me how little support either of us got from our college. I was actively working with disability services and the amount of help they could/would provide was pathetic. I was fortunate that I was able to avoid student loans but my partner wasn't as fortunate.

[@vlogbrothers]

I'll say it again: 40% of people with student loans will get NOTHING in exchange for their debt, and at some colleges, MOST of the people who take out students loans receive no degree in exchange. Such people are disproportionately poor and marginalized, and they are inadequately supported by the U.S. education system every step of the way--from elementary school through post-secondary education. We need to focus not just on people who end up with a lot of debt in exchange for a degree, but the huge percentage of people who end up with a lot of debt in exchange for nothing, and reform systems so that they better meet those people's needs. -John

[@jocloud31]

I am one of these people, and another aspect of this that is so problematic is that it is basically impossible to refinance student loans without a degree. It's a requirement for every refinancing program I've applied for.

[@lecompteman5810]

The strong counter argument is that what about people who took out a business loan from the government (SBA) and failed at business. Should the government forgive their loans too? What is the difference? Both involve investing in something (degree vs. business). Are people who go to college more deserving? What about an underserved minority who takes out a loan to build a food truck business and fails? I’m aware that they would have the option to declare bankruptcy to get rid of the debt which doesn’t exist with student loans. Maybe borrowers with overwhelming student loan debt should have the opportunity to discharge those debts through bankruptcy. Seems like that would be the most fair in light of the example given above. Thoughts?

[@parus6422]

I think we should hold colleges responsible and not the tax payers.

[@angelasylvain2476]

I’d be interested to know how many of those students (like my son) who leave without a degree are then unable to pay back the student loan, so the lenders go after the parents. I’m stuck paying off $50k student loan debt for my son because he was not able to. Sallie Mae was delighted to go after me and blow up my credit without so much as an email letting me know that I was suddenly responsible to pay the debt.

[@jocloud31]

@@angelasylvain2476 I've been working with the loan companies and my parents to prevent exactly this. It's the only reason I haven't let them lapse

[@ronaldswanson8405]

As a student who took 6.5 years to finish a 4 degree and broke my back to not have student loans when I graduated, I hope no one has to hustle like I did to finish college debt free.

[@ryan1usu]

I've worked in this industry for over 10 years. It's frustrating when people get things wrong. Well done. 👍

[@julianffan]

I hadn’t thought about student loans like this before. my mom dropped out of college when i was about four after witnessing a criminal act that left her with ptsd, and had no degree but 10k in student debt until i was eighteen. we were hassled by debt collectors so much that i grew up never answering any calls without caller ID and not answering the door if nobody was coming over. she didn’t get a credit card until i was a teenager and didn’t know how to manage having one, so she ended up in more debt. she filed for bankruptcy this year, and she’s finally hoping to go back to University in the future once her credit score is recovered. i have some student loans as well, but i don’t have a kid, and i haven’t been accumulating interest for a decade. forgiving student loans would be nice for me now, but it would have changed my life if hers had been forgiven a decade ago. (or, god forbid, if she had gone to school for free!) the families of people with student loans are affected.

[@whimsicalmrs.winter231]

As a first generation student I can say that navigating everything about college was incredibly complex. I was 17 years old and none of the adults in my life could even understand what I was signing up for except that "college is important." There were things I could've done differently looking back, and my child will certainly know that because I went to buy I couldn't have known. I barely even had Google to help me.

[@stephaniehicks4304]

Yes, this. My first go at school went horribly and my answer was to quit. No one in my family knew to bring up the option of a transfer. I didn’t think to search for a different option, either.

[@dannyMistyVloggerga]

@@stephaniehicks4304thank you for that!

[@jameshammond4942]

Maybe, now hear me out, a not small number of those students who drop out are just lazy

[@om-lit3643]

Barely had google?! Are you kidding me?!?!

[@MikeFolea]

Reliable and trustworthy, *911 Mike Help* a service you can always count on.

[@JordanLeigh]

Several years ago, my bestie was in college and doing great. Then her mom got cancer. It was supposed to be non-aggressive. It’s come back 6 times now, and the literature on her mom’s type of cancer has changed to say that it is very aggressive and comes back quickly. She had to drop out of college to take care of her mom after surgeries that left her disabled and needing a lot of care. We’re at the end stretch now… her mom probably won’t make it more than another 3 months, and the goal is now to keep her comfortable. I wish it was possible to get her loan forgiven. Her entire life came to a grinding halt to take care of her dying mother, and it doesn’t feel fair.

[@kimberlybarnes799]

This happened to me. I have a LOT of student loan debt. I started my degree to help my family but then my husband got cancer and I had to stop halfway through to help him. He ultimately passed away and I did not have the mental ability to go back and raise two grief ridden children by myself. When I got ready to go back the school is now gone... Argosy. I can't get copies of my transcripts either. They threw me into another bout of depression. I am praying that Navient really does forgive them due to the lawsuit. I'm anxiously waiting to hear. Prayers for your friend.

[@heroslippy6666]

:(

[@vw8886]

You are correct life is not fair.

[@bjkarana]

That sucks! Can your friend resume her studies and graduate? I think most programs have a 7 year grace period before you need to start re-taking courses.

[@Lola-385]

@@kimberlybarnes799 I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope you and the original commenter look into the forgiveness options that are available when people lose a family member. I've had friends who were able to get over 100k of their loans forgiven this route. It's a delicate topic but I hope this option will help someone.

[@TempestInaTeecup]

This happened to me. I had $100,000 of debt when I left school 8 years ago after passing my classes to graduate but not receiving a degree from the university. I couldn’t afford continue so I dropped out. Now I am finally finishing my degree, but still in a lot of student debt. I have been working toward this degree for 7 years, while working multiple jobs at a time and attempting to succeed against a system designed to make me fail.

[@BiffJohnsonIII]

Did you finally graduate?

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

dont blame the system for choices you made

[@TempestInaTeecup]

I did graduate and I'm making more money than I ever have. The student loans were the only option for me to go to college and I was 16 years old trying to escape an abusive family situation so I felt trapped. I blame my circumstances more than anything, but I'd say the $1,200+ I spend a month on my student loan payments was worth my freedom. I'm also saying the system provided an escape, but trapped me with debt I will probably be paying off for the rest of my life. I've paid about $60,000 toward my student loans over the past 10 years and still have about $80,000 to pay back- no matter how you look at it, that's pretty messed up.

[@user-lq7uq4vv8r]

You mean the choices they were suckered into making? A 17-18 year old is far more susceptible to the wiles of student loan racketeers than you or I might be. Did you know when LBJ introduced the programs, the loans were interest free? It became a racket under Nixon. Go figure.​@@ronaldreagan-ik6hz

[@TSSPDarkStar]

i understand and appreciate the breakdown and added context. i do still wish there was more of a prescription about what specifics you would like to see happen or change given this additional context

[@eliontheinternet3298]

I also feel like there’s a lot of pressure to go to college even when it’s not right for you, or not right for you immediately after high school. I barely kept it together for my associates degree not because I wasn’t smart or supported but because I was young, inexperienced, unmotivated, and in crisis. I attempted suicide my junior year of high school, largely because of academic pressure. And still, everyone around me encouraged me to go to college. Not everyone needs a college degree, and not everyone needs it straight after high school. I just wish I was better equipped to find other options.

[@sarah.weaver]

In case you haven't heard this lately, I'm really really glad your attempt failed. ❤️ I hope you are in a better place now!

[@ohwellwhateverr]

Here’s a tip: if you want to be more persuasive and authoritative when communicating, say “I think”, or “There is”. “I feel like” signals that you’re just basing your opinion in emotion rather than thought or logic.

[@niseyk2381]

I’d like to see the “weed out” mentality of college professors change. The idea that they’d rather get rid of you than actually try to teach you baffles me. I got my degree, but was traumatized by the weed out culture of college.

[@jamesknapp64]

The purpose is not the get rid of you. The purpose of "weed out" is to show you have the abilities needed for the program. Thus the upper level courses can be more personable. There is also a part of how courses to assign to teach get handed out that gets glossed over ("weed out" courses are lower on the desired list so prof that teach them are not as happy teaching them as upper level courses).

[@nanamiharuka3269]

Love that terminology! They had a "weed out" culture in my high school and the lack of support definitely led to trauma

[@cookie8162]

@@jamesknapp64 shouldn't they want to teach the abilities required by the program?

[@misteryA555]

@@jamesknapp64 Aren't students paying specifically to be taught by these people? If a student is having trouble THEN HELP THEM! LET THEM TAKE CLASSES AGAIN OR SPLIT DIFFICULT CLASSES INTO TWO SECTIONS! This is part of the reason why the US is lacking talent in so many important jobs

[@hngldr]

@@jamesknapp64 Every "weed out" course I ever had had absolutely nothing to do with checking if you had the abilities needed. Some professors would outright say they'd do a backwards grade curve to fail as many as necessary. The others just gave insane amounts of tedious work that had nothing to do with that or future courses - essentially 3rd grade math but problems that were 5 pages worth of 3rd-grade math to increase the chance of you making a mistake. That particular professor VERY frequently (more than 50% of the time) got his own problems wrong.

[@kaylacook9234]

I have over $100k in student loan debt and it's not because I went to grad school or attended a super expensive university. It's because I was a very, VERY stupid 18 year old who thought, "it's a problem for future me" was a good enough argument. Luckily I did finish my Bachelor's degree this past May, but now I'm struggling very hard to find a career and I only have a few months left to do so until I'm in repayment. I'm terrified and so mad at my 18 year old self. I wish I could take it back every day.

[@raceit502]

But how do i prevent this AND go to college? I just dont know what kind of payments I could do. Im 17

[@estellar8186]

​@@raceit502only take subsidized loans. Don't take more than you need and apply for scholarships. There are millions out there. Apply apply apply.

[@mrninjabeast1914]

Sad really agonizing memories to bear but thanks for advice

[@ledzeppelin1212]

I'm sorry you're in that situation. Please share your story with others who are about to go to college to make sure they don't end up with the same problems!

[@cmdrfunk]

Yeah it's so unfair. Everyone else should have to suffer your decisions instead of you

[@Trewq79]

I know an extreme version of this unfortunately. I graduated dental school, and 4 years there cost $250k. A colleague of mine was….lets say not as driven as the rest. He got held back twice, but still made it to senior year, so he was done with senior year after 6 years. After senior year, we take our board exams. He failed it twice. The boards punishment was for him to stay in school one more year and retry, so now he’s been here 7 years. He failed the 3rd board attempt. At this point, the board and school said “you’re done” and expelled him. That means he owes 7 years of dental school tuition (almost $500k) without any dental degree to pay the bills. I feel bad for him. I have zero clue how he’s going to recover from it.

[@wwrk25]

I began OSU in 1980 with my 1st student loan. Worked and went to school and raised a family until I finished my undergrad in 2000. Total loan was over $100,000. I'm still paying each month. I'm now 64 years old. Will never be able to pay off....... Me ,now 66 years old. I'm so greatful to President Biden and to Obama. My loans were forgiven as I've been in Public Service since 2003. God Bless you all who came here. It was such a relief. When I received the confirmation letter, I stayed up most of the night giggling with happiness.

[@gbprime2353]

OSU is one of the more expensive state schools. That's why Columbus State gets so much play in the same market. I was fortunate enough to grow up in New Mexico where state schools are much cheaper... but I live in Columbus now, so my three kids in high school will be facing the same challenge as you soon. =(

[@mf--]

What was your major?

[@Bob-cd5pp]

When your Dead they will forgive it

[@wolfjoat]

There is also the issue with student loan debt stemming from "diploma mill" for-profit colleges. These places routinely offer associates degrees or some type of vocational "certification" but later on you find that none of the units will transfer if you want to increase your level of (for lack of a better word) education.

[@NecromancerAdept]

Both of my parents are college dropouts. My mom is still paying back debt because her ROTC scholarship got taken away (since she had sprained her ankle in gymnastics and couldn't run a mile). She would've been an aerospace engineer. It's been over 20 years.

[@smadude48]

I was pressured into college at an expensive school for a degree I didn’t want and never graduated with. My high school essentially made us feel worthless if I didn’t go to college. I am struggling with student loans and am worried about entering college again because of this. It’s very hard

[@NWPaul72]

The only real reason I'd want to go back is to address my student loan debt and get my credit under control. I've found my (poorly compensated) spot and I like it, a degree would just be for me and maybe to impress my mom.

[@mf--]

@@NWPaul72 then you do not need a degree. why spend money getting something that you do not need

[@SylviaRustyFae]

Feels on all of this, tho it was my biofam that pushed me into college.

[@NWPaul72]

@@mf-- to impress my mom, duh. As little as I care it would make her very happy. Which may explain why I went with no plan in the first place.

[@AgtPaper665]

I'm one of those 40%. After years of medication and therapy, I'm still damagingly depressed about the fact that I will likely never be able to afford a home or have children, which were my primary reasons that I was told to go to college in the first place. Right now, I can't even afford the transportation costs of attempting to get a better job than the one I have now, my income from which is almost immediately eaten up by healthcare costs and student loans from more than a decade ago. Thank you for helping people like me feel heard and seen.

[@HerMajesty81]

Same. This is sad af. I’m so sorry friend.

[@nicholasn.2883]

Yo there's a recession on the way 😬 Inflation and gas prices aren't going to come down. gl

[@thelmaaugustine2471]

So you made some mistakes like the rest of us. Pick yourself up and go a different direction!

[@HowCommunicationWorks]

Many of the students who drop out never should have gone to college. We do a disservice by telling young people that college is for everyone. It’s not. College can be a good investment for students who finish, but even some of them benefit only a relatively small amount. But students who don’t finish gain nothing and lose a lot. There will always be exceptions, but in general if you were only a mediocre academic performer in high school, there’s a good probability that you will not finish college. This is no reflection on your value as a human being or even on your intelligence necessarily. It just means that you might not be particularly suited for academic work. The world needs lots of different kinds of people not just college educated people. I think Hank takes away too much agency from individual students when he says they did not fail they were failed. It puts all the agency on the school and treats students as if they have no agency. This is incorrect and disempowering. In terms of the loans themselves, we also don’t talk about the fact that one person‘s loan or debt is another person‘s asset. There is always someone on the other side of the transaction who is harmed when a debt is not repaid. You might think that’s only rich people, but when loans are made by commercial banks or savings and loans, every depositor to that institution has to pay for that bad debt. Generally you pay in the form of lower interest on your savings. If the loan is made by the federal government, then every taxpayer pays for the unpaid debt. There’s no free lunch. Loans are not paid with monopoly money. They are paid either with tax dollars or with depositor’s dollars. If you think it’s no big deal not to pay back your debt, then you should be prepared to pay higher taxes and receive lower interest on any savings or bonds that you might hold. And Hank also fails to mention the moral dimension. Students who take out loans are entering into a legal contract as adults. In our culture we have to treat legal contracts as binding. Maybe you think this doesn’t apply to you, but it does. A contract is what makes you the owner of your car when you pay for it. If the seller could disregard the contract they could just take the car back and keep your money. A contract is what allows the plumber to sue the homeowner if the homeowner doesn’t pay for the work. If we can disregard contracts, then we can steal the services of service providers without paying them. Contracts are not only for the rich and powerful. They allow trade and commerce to function. When we say people can just walk away from their debts, we compromise the entire lawful system of commercial trade and exchange.

[@jasmine3250]

Nailed it. I'm 30k in debt from a community college 15 years ago. I was about 10 credits away from my associates degree and defaulted on my loans. I was unsupported with my learning disability & had no other source of income - so I was forced to drop out. Later I became chronically ill and couldn't work to pay down that loan. 15 years of deferment & IBR plans and counting... I'd love to finish my degree before I die. I've never had a graduation. 😭

[@low-energypolitics5677]

I’ve got such a small portion of that debt, but forgiveness would impact my life in such a significant way. Thank you for the breakdown. I didn’t realize that graduate school was such a large explanatory factor, or most of the other tidbits you shared.

[@jennifercampbell2512]

This!!

[@zettagotbored9341]

I knew grad school was expensive, but I didn't realize it until I started talking to coworkers with masters degrees (I was working as a teacher in a low income area). I went to a wildly overpriced private university because I didn't understand the world at 17 (shocking) and had about $40,000 in debt after, but I was working with people who had been paying off the minimum balance due for almost 10 years and still had $100,000+ that they were waiting to have forgiven because the were working in a low income school district. Grad degrees are honestly insane. I'd kinda love to get one, but definitely not for the price

[@kmbehrens14]

I doubled my student loans with grad school. I don’t regret my degree, but it has forced me into what I call “voluntary poverty” (my job is very fulfilling but also under 40k).

[@zettagotbored9341]

@@kmbehrens14 that's the other really annoying thing is that it won't necessarily pay for itself. Like if I had an actual guarantee that I'd be making enough to live comfortably while paying off the loans I'd be much more okay with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the whole for-profit-education-system thing in general, but it would still make a really big difference

[@ps.2]

This is what so much of the student loan discourse skips over. One can make all kinds of arguments about tricking 18-year-olds into spending money they don't have to go to college they aren't suited for or whatever, but if the bulk of student loan debt is for _graduate school,_ well ... at some point an adult has to take responsibility for their choices. Any debate about student loan debt that lumps medical school, law school and other graduate programs in with the undergrad debt is starting with a bit of a stolen base. If you get a graduate degree, either you know it will easily pay for itself (e.g., medical school or an MBA), or you should be going in with eyes wide open that it won't.

[@darrenmichaels]

I'd also love to see an expansion of "public service" forgiveness, like the students who go into not-for-profit companies once obtaining their degrees. There should be an expansion of what public service means and at very least a tax break to help ease the income disparity. This might lead to more educated people investing their career paths into the strengthening of our society and maybe less people taking jobs at hedge funds.

[@BbyDAp]

I love this!

[@kgreene460]

I am in a program for nonprofit employees that has income based repayment for a 10 years after which time the remaining loan amounts are forgiven, but.... You have to make EVERY SINGLE PAYMENT on time and when life happens, that can be extremely challenging. So the program exists, but there are caveats.

[@enduringbird]

Yes! When I was teaching high school I knew of several teachers who waited tables after school to help pay down those loans. That is a failure of the system to me. Teachers are so under valued.

[@darrenmichaels]

@@kgreene460 I can definitely relate to that. Maybe we should simply defer payments for those ten years of service on top of the promised forgiveness.

[@timothymimeslayer]

The biggest problem is that is basically asking people, "You need to make a ton less money so that we can pay off your student loans. Nevermind, that you could have just gotten a better paying job and maybe just been in the same position in the end."

[@sapphireannahope8121]

This was me, I'm getting back to school this fall, I'm disabled,and had autistic burnout when I dropped out, and family situations got me taking time to get back to commuity college. And I wasn't aware that I had loans ( under consterviship, and the goverment just gave me the money when I filled out the fafsa). Getting it solved in ten days, and going to make income based repayments after. Thank you for making me feel seen.

[@mstrong2099]

Running Start and transferring community college credits are another way to cut down on obligation.

[@tkdyo]

I graduated debt free thanks to a combination of scholarship, parents saving some, and some inheritance from a deceased relative. I still support loan forgiveness. Why? Because nobody should have to go in to debt to get an education. The more people we have with a higher education the stronger we become as a country, heck as a species. I'm so tired of this hyper individualism.

[@NickCBax]

+

[@LEGOAgenda]

That’s not the point of the system though it’s people make get into debt so only the few rich can prosper. You really think the elites want everyone to be educated? They need slaves just saying

[@LEGOAgenda]

I agree with you though we would all become stronger. But some don’t want that.

[@mmtruooao8377]

I graduated debt free thanks to scholarships + community college + staying at home + both parents are overworked but made enough for it. Even though i graduated debt free, it was difficult keeping my scholarship and it was stressful managing familial relationships to maintain support, and I don't think it's fair to literally anyone going through higher education to stress over that when they should just be trying to get through their curriculum.

[@mariev3821]

+

[@SW-cb7ut]

One of the things I am most ashamed of is dropping out with large outstanding loans. I feel like I can't talk about it with out being looked down on and seen as someone who "wasn't smart enough to finish college" and also someone who was "dumb enough to take out more loans than they could afford"

[@jeff-hc8ux]

100% as someone who just finished a doctoral degree you are not anything less for doing something different. You tried something which is what you are suppose to do in life and the system is rigged to punish you. Aint you friend

[@BlueHazyDreams]

As someone who flunked out due to depression then went back and finished, I just want to say that it's not a question of intelligence and I hate that is the assumption. I know it doesn't help the stigma in greater society, but academic failure imo is more often a failure of resources not of the individual. Resources of time, physical and mental/emotional energy, money, and/or supports like staff, tutoring, reasonable accommodations, etc. As cliché as it sounds, given the right environment and resources I believe everyone can and will thrive.

[@Spankee99]

And if we do blanket forgiveness we’ll see people that gained scholarships or the GI Bill as too stupid to take free money.

[@vulpixelful]

I'm in the same boat and I just really have to ignore judgmental people and focus on my strengths. Therapy helps me do that. You don't know what you don't know, and a lot of things that start out with decent prospects don't work out, marriages, jobs, etc. It's no different from that, it's just also very expensive and seems more stigmatized than even divorce.

[@rMDheal]

I’ve always loved your science videos, and I love this video. I’ve followed you throughout my academic journey. I regret getting my master’s degree- but I am a first gen student who has had such little guidance. It’s in STEM, and yet I’ve not heard back from any applications I’ve submitted. I feel like I’ve come full circle in the worst of ways: back to waiting tables after so much hard work, but this time with so much more debt to pay off 😢

[@Bob-cd5pp]

30% od STEM grads get work in there field of study...

[@jacobbissey9311]

I went to college because I had a specific career in mind that I wanted to do, but then most of the way through my degree I learned that I had been misinformed about certain key bits of information about that career and no longer wanted to do it. I looked at possibly changing my major to pursue a different career path, but that fell through, and so initially I just resolved to finish my degree because having a degree looks better on a resume than not having one and my major *was* one that was broadly applicable, so figured it was a good idea. Then I got a part time job while I was a student. Then I moved my schooling to also be part time. Then I had a class that was giving so much homework that ONE class was effectively a part time job in and of itself and it was required to finish my degree, so I did some math and I realized that if I dropped out of college and went to full time at my job I'd be making more money than most of the jobs I could get after finishing my degree, and at the rate I was going with my degree, I was already 5 years into a 4 year degree and needed at least another 2 years to finish it. So I dropped out. I went to a cheap state school, lived with my mom to save on expenses, and my first year had been at community college to get some prereqs out of the way for cheap, but I still dropped out with around 46k in debt between private and federal loans because the scholarship system was impossible to use and I only qualified for the pell grant 2 of those 5 years. I've kept up on my payments, but my income has dropped significantly while my expenses keep going up. I *need* debt forgiveness to happen for me. The only way I'd ever consider going back to school is if I found a career I actually wanted to do that I could finish my degree for, but I almost certainly wouldn't go back to the same university considering how insanely corrupt they were.

[@tbstoller]

Another factor in dropping out is that loans and grants are only available to full-time students. If a student does not have financial support from family-maybe in the form of free room and board with parents-it is nearly impossible to stay in school since financial models assume family support. I would like to see free community college and more aid for part-time self-supporting students.

[@barefoothippielibtard9691]

That is 100% provably false

[@spj4you]

This also correlates with Hank's point about students dropping out because they need to work and not always can while going to school full time

[@ashtonmcmullen6799]

@@barefoothippielibtard9691 So prove it.

[@OhJodi69]

@@barefoothippielibtard9691 So, Prove it.

[@jessicajohnston5693]

Yes, this. I have a hard time being nice to myself and might not be able to handle the stress of being a student full-time. I have dyslexia, ADD and PTSD. Was depressed and suicidal for 10 years because I thought I was a failure. Things that seems obvious to other people are confusing to me. I would love to get a job that allows me to give more back to the community if they could see how I don't fit into the typical college system. Even though life is hard I am going to do what works for me.

[@willowkelleigh2247]

As a student taking out loans in college right now, I was very surprised at the lack of education around taking out loans. While you do have to sit through an "entrance counseling" for loans, it is not enough. That counseling is AFTER students have picked which college they're going to (which can have a tremendous influence on how mach you take out in loans), and it doesn't cover that the federal limit on subsidized loans increases each year you're a student. My school's financial package "gives" you the maximum amount in loans you can take out, which means each year I'm taking out more and more loans. When I was in high school picking colleges, I took the amount of loans in my offered freshman year financial packages and multiplied it my 4. Turns out I'm taking out considerably more than that.

[@BlueHazyDreams]

Definitely. Also knowing nothing about finances as an 18 year-old, I just listened to what my dad said, which was to take several private loans out with a major bank (cause that's what he did 30-something years ago or whatever). At least he was the cosigner so it was on him anyway.

[@taneelbrightblade6622]

"Sit through" is a generous term. Mine was online and I needed to answer like 4 questions to prove I was reading it.

[@HeatherFarris]

Your “exit counseling” is signing a digital form stating you promise to pay your loans.

[@thisoneT]

I'm also one of those students. Took me years to recover from it. I'm back in school now, I'm in my 30's, have kids, it's not ideal, but I'm giving it a second shot and going for a degree that will pay the bills, not chasing my dreams anymore.

[@lloydtucker7205]

Thanks for sharing this information. In March of 1998, I graduated with an undergrad in Electrical Engineering from the now disgraced ITT Tech. In September of 98, I started paying roughly $200.00 per month in student loan payments. Today, I'm paying $198.20 per month with a balance of roughly $14,000,00. I have 12 years to retirement. I chose ITT Tech chiefly because of the class schedule. I was 28 then, and *had to work full time* from 7 AM to 3:30 PM to live.* MSOE(Milwaukee School of Engineering) UW-Milwaukee and UW-Parkside only had part-time schedules for full-time workers. The ITT Tech class schedule at that time was from 6:00 PM till 10:00 PM Monday through Friday, so I took advantage of that. During the whole time I attended, I didn't realize ITT Tech credits were not accepted by the UW System and other private reputable schools in the area. After I graduated, I found out the hard way when I wanted to transfer credites to a different institution to learn database programming. I also never suspected the executives of that company were ladies and gentlemen of questionable integrity.

[@FarOutJunk]

My sadness is this : I wasted a lot of my life struggling to pay back by student loans for a degree that did nothing for me because of the way the world turned. As a result of this debt, I will probably never own a home. I am incredibly envious of the students who will be able to not experience this crippling debt and will therefor be more able afford a home, especially in this time when housing shortages make it even more difficult. This never should have happened to anyone in the first place, and I don't wish it on anyone. But I'm just lucky enough to be in this horrible in-between place where I am being forced out of the simple dream of having a place to live, to preserve my mental health. We've been skipped over. Things could be a lot worse, and nobody should have to struggle financially like I did, but damn. It feels terrible to know I'm never going to have a garden, or afford to start a family. This is not at all to say that student debt shouldn't be cancelled; it's an overpriced, bloated, mostly useless thing.

[@Sientir]

You have my condolences. :(

[@ohhellothere25]

This feels bitter and petty.. but that’s all valid to feel. Hope things work out for you. Sorry it’s been tough.

[@FarOutJunk]

@@ohhellothere25 It would be petty if I wished the same thing on others. But of course I'm bitter that my life was taken from me by a broken system.

[@greygryphon6881]

I would really be happy for them to just get rid of the interest. When I first graduated I made sure to pay more than what I owed every month. After two years I owed more than I started. Why bother even trying?

[@AmiCestLaVie]

This exactly is an important piece I feel that Hank left out. Student loans just never seem to go away.

[@sam4lotr]

INTEREST. That is absolutely what is keeping people in debt.

[@mf--]

That should not be mathematically possible.

[@RiamsWorld]

@@mf-- As long as what their default payment is is less than the interest rate, it's very possible, and sorta insidious.

[@joshhoward1289]

They have for nearly the past two years, but about 60% didn’t take advantage of this at all.

[@96smittyjr]

You make a very good point I am one of the students who went to grad school which ended up nearly tripling my debt. I work as an instructor at the same university I attended and am currently debating between trying for a more permanent position to lower my debt or going back to get my PhD which would mean my loan payments would be paused but still accruing interest but would also mean that I might be taking on more debt.

[@AMcGrath82]

Former student loan collector, here. Lawyers almost never pay off their student loans. They avoid garnishment and avoid paying anything they can. They know collection law, and they often act in private companies that can outright refuse garnishment. Lawyers get expensive educations, but they rarely ever pay for them.

[@Bob-cd5pp]

Then they become politicians and rip off the public.

[@marzcorbeau2315]

You know what is wild to me? My loans didn't cover the cost of living and my education. I had to skip buying certain textbooks, didn't have enough to pay utilities some money and skipped meals. And I was in a program that expected me to work 10-20 practicum hours a week which meant I had to choose between being able to eat consistently (getting a part time job) and getting homework done. Then I got sick, my university refused to make doctor recommended accommodations they'd initially said they would even though I had all documentation, and my loans went to collections while I was trying to find them - while sick. It's still a nightmare. Why can a university opt not to provide me with necessary resources and I can't get a refund but my student loans are unable to discharged through bankruptcy or other means? Every encounter I've had with education systems at this point have been wildly terrible for my wellbeing and life generally. How many people don't even attempt higher education and are stuck in poverty because of similar alienating experiences at the grade school level? When we talk about education as a violent system, this is one of those ways.

[@mrbyorself]

University profit margins are wild. It's essentially free money in their pocket if it's federal student loans.

[@TisiphoneSeraph]

@Ronald Reagan You gonna go vote in protections for disabled workers then? Cause at present jobs screen out folks with my disabilities at the door. We'll all be disabled at some point in our lives and folks with attitudes like yours are far more likely to commit suicide and decline more quickly. I hate that for you. You know what you're saying is hurtful and you just want to hurt others - you've gotta be in a lot of pain. Hope you get the help you need. All the best.

[@BigDeepz]

@Ronald Reagan you're so brainwashed its hilarious

[@Redpoppy80]

You might want to find an education attorney about the lack of accommodations your university has forced on you. I ran into a similar situation and didn't get legal help in time and am still paying for the abuse I suffered. This country is built on skewed rules and lawsuits. You will probably still lose even if you win a judgment but it is a LOT better than being left holding the entire bag.

[@BigDeepz]

@Ronald Reagan lol you almost seem like you're trolling. You watched the video right? Yes I agree the borrower is responsible, but he explains how the average student is almost forced into getting a loan in order to get an education, which everyone is pushed to do nowadays. Not to mention these are 17-18 year olds just doing what the world taught them to do.

[@CODandponies]

Just a personal theory from someone who works in a school. We have very poor test scores, like single digit percentage of kids pass the state test at the end of the year. However, it has been my experience that many teachers will pass these kids anyway because they don't want to deal with them or they feel bad or admin pressures them or whatever. Meanwhile, all throughout high school kids are told they must go to college and get a 4 year degree to get a good job. This is sort of true in that you have the best chance of making a lot of money if you are well educated but a lot of these kids would probably be better off going to trade schools. So, these kids that aren't actually passing at already bad schools are being told to go to universities and take out loans. Then reality hits and they drop out. I think a significant amount of good could be done by making kids more aware of options other than a four-year degree.

[@sarah.weaver]

Even trade schools are very expensive theses days, and very competitive as well

[@hecticenergy1233]

And look into the issues surrounding poorly educated kids… the current research seems to indicate it’s poverty related… financial issues causing parents to focus more on getting out of their predicament instead of focusing on their children’s education (higher parent involvement seeming to at least highly correlate to better student performance). It’s our society. We should be fixing these problems.

[@ohwellwhateverr]

@@hecticenergy1233 There’s a mountain of research suggesting that poverty is much less of a factor in academic attainment (and other social issues) than the stability of the family unit. Low-income bracket students from two-parent households are far less likely to drop out of school than middle-class students from broken homes. That is significant, and we’re not talking about it enough. Single-parent households and in particular fatherless homes is the common thread underlinking so many of society’s problems (gang involvement, crime, drug use, etc).

[@roberthenson6114]

No child left behind started this trend. I teach at a trade school now and have done so off and on for 15 years. The difference in younger students, most straight out of high school, are soft on so many of the basics and let’s not talk about soft skills such as arriving on time.

[@richardhay645]

Just make college free like it essentially was when I went to college in the early 1960s. That system worked. It was really stypid to change it.

[@genesisp3884]

I was almost in this situation after I lost a grant on a technicality after my first year. I almost couldn't finish due to financial concerns. Thankfully, things worked out and I got my BA in May. I'm now pursuing a PhD (with full funding!), but I recognize that I got lucky.

[@shelbyrobert3804]

I've definitely heard the argument that if college/university was free, people wouldn't commit to it, like they would just quit because they didn't have a financial stake in it. This data is really important because it shows that this is happening regardless, and is maybe even less likely to happen if financial burdens are the #1 reason to dropout. Edit: Y'all, I don't agree with the argument, but it's one that I hear a lot. Which is why I appreciate having statistics from a North American context to refute that argument. Jeez.

[@vkunst85]

Good point, to add to it: they have a financial stake at going to a free university because of opportunity costs. They could have done other things with their time - for instance, working a job - and they dont. Therefore, even though they aren't paying for their education via tuitions, they are still paying for it via their time.

[@sarah.weaver]

Also, every country that offers free or significantly cheaper higher education, doesn't have that issue. They are living proof and real, not guestimated, statistics.

[@Drekromancer]

@@vkunst85 Both of you are brilliant. Thank you for your thoughtful analyses.

[@erdbeerschorschnc3484]

You could compare the data with european countries where you only pay a fee for your bus ticket and a small fee for the administration and counselling services. In my uni that amounts to about 300 euros per semester, the majority of the fee being the bus ticket with about 200 euros, but in other cities you pay about 200€.

[@sevendoubleodex]

this is not how it works but i don’t care enough to convince you otherwise

[@Morphesque]

Not to mention the fact that due to the way that the federal loan student system is structured in the US, you can’t even take a break for more than one semester in a row without becoming disqualified! If you take two semesters off from school in a row- for ANY reason- you are no longer eligible to receive student loans until you’ve paid off all of the loans you’ve already taken out. It is a devastating barrier.

[@bloodfiredrake7259]

Thats a good thing that prevents exploitation of the money.

[@jacobawojtowicz]

Oh this break is the problem with the student loan system?? The state A) doesnt teach kids much of anything useful the first 12 years. Then B) gives kids with no credit history or financial literacy 100K to play beer pong. Student loan interest is paid to the federal government....so It's just another tax on the poor. Which then also raises college prices (thanks to infinite money being poured into the system) which guarantees a federal revenue stream for generations.

[@joncarroll2040]

I think a big part of the problem is the difference between a high school teacher and a college professor. A high school teacher is trained to teach students material. Professors for the most part are trained to be experts in a very narrowly defined subject field and to conduct research in that field. Higher education, outside of a few specialized fields like engineering, law and medicine and designed to train academics not to impart practical skills which is why predominantly lower income students are not well served by the system if they are coming in not ready for college level reading, writing or math. This is why community colleges are so important but unfortunately many of them are floundering because they don't offer the kind of experience that the bulk of more affluent students are looking for and carry the unfair stigma of being lower class.

[@kcsniper1243]

Another issue is the University offering broad degrees that don't lead directly to a job in the real world. This happened to my wife. She ended up graduating with a bachelors in a degree that basically not jobs directly require. So therefore she had to either go to graduate school or find a job which had nothing to do with her degree. Luckily im an engineer and have made great money and am able to support her but that still doesn't take away from Colleges offering these kind of degrees just to make money or give athletes something to do while they are in college.

[@ryebowen]

I dropped out of community college (I was pursuing a music therapy degree) once I went full-time in my current career as a live production tech director. I want to go back and finish my degree, but music degrees are quite difficult to achieve while having a full-time, mostly 9-5 job that I love. I have considered going back to school for a different degree, but the idea of taking on student loans while also about to take on a car loan doesn’t sit well with me or my current finances.

[@mf--]

Will getting a degree increase your income?

[@nanamiharuka3269]

Yeah I've heard music degrees are notoriously hard and time consuming

[@pianoguy2747]

@@nanamiharuka3269 I've got a music degree myself and I can confirm it's extremely hard and time consuming and I'm a recent graduate from 2020. I don't really know how you would get a Bachelor's if you aren't a full time student. I had a few 21 credit hour semesters to get out in four years and a lot of professors at the lower level do have a weed out mentality. By the time my senior year rolled around of the 15 or so majors we had as freshman on my track only three graduated myself included.

[@lh3540]

I have 2 music degrees and the professor that oversaw 40% of my credits died homeless. I'm not kidding. I'm really bitter about all of this. Find private instructors and pay them cash, at least they'll actually see the money. The rest of the credits were fluff garbage I could just watch on PBS or a learning app.

[@AnnaReed42]

Wow, this is timely. I just found out today that my student loans (a teaching incentive loan that could have been fully forgiven if I had remained a teacher in my state for 5 years; unfortunately I only made it 3 because teaching is hell) have been fully forgiven. I had $14k left and *poof* it is now gone. There is so much weight that has been lifted from my back, and I feel like I actually have a chance at achieving my life/financial goals now. I feel so incredibly privileged because of this. My degree opened the door to where I am today - making a good wage, doing something I enjoy, with a boss who appreciates me and fights for my advancement. I'm proud of myself for how far I've come, but I didn't work harder than those who still flounder in student debt. I got lucky. I want others to be able to experience this.

[@rhiannonparent8581]

congratulations!!

[@toonman361]

Sorry to hear you hated your teaching experience. I went back to college at 42 to get a masters allowing me to teach. I spent eight years mostly unemployed but teaching as an adjunct. I am now teaching full time for the past six years and like you, find it very challenging, but rewarding as well. Perhaps it's because I chose to do it later in life?

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

Others can experience it- when they pay off what they borrowed

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

now just think? an uneducated worker is the most likely to be paying off your unpaid balance through taxation. and you democrats call that fair? the party of "equity" everything thinks is ok for 65% of americans that never went to college to pay the education bills of the 35% that did? Sick Republicans are right on this. these are personal loans, not a public debt.

[@sarahburkhardt2037]

Love your Narnia map! My sister was one of these people. Part of the problem is how schools kind of spend too much money and don't have the same 'positive impact' on their communities they used to. I'm from the same town I went to college, and I have seen this to be true. Across the board, it just doesn't have the same meaning it did 50 years ago (which is part of the dropout cause too, I think). That's just my 2 cents.

[@vivians5341]

I can assure you John you are 100% right. As someone who needed so much support while I was in school, it would have helped a great deal. I had no family support, housing support and I was battling severe mental health while in college made things very hard. I am glad I graduated because I was trying to make my situation better so I will be able to get better mental health care and never have to suffer from housing issues again. Unfortunately, I can out with 75k worth of student loans because the school I went to was 70K a year.

[@bettievw]

Everything's talking about everything incorrectly and I'm very annoyed at all of it: a summary of the 2020s

[@infinimineyt9700]

Been hell of a decade so far, eh?

[@samb123]

Well, the start of the 2020s anyway. Here's to hoping

[@kiwiboy1999]

It's a weird thing when society wakes up and thinks about itself. I mean the internet is a bunch of thoughts in various media, and so are the thoughts in your brain about anything. The more this becomes normalised the more it's going to look like a messy but unified consciousness, and that's kinda what we're experiencing right now, but the thoughts on the internet are often not accurate lenses on reality. We're all fallible individually.

[@Leah-bd2iv]

It's like everyone forgot that many issues are more complex than they appear to be. And all critical thinking has been replaced with outrage and anger.

[@heroslippy6666]

I called back on new years. Revenge of the roaring 20s electric boogaloo.

[@nathanrohde3292]

When someone rants about "Personal Accountability" they either have no understanding of structural failure or actively benefit from it.

[@tkdyo]

And even if they acknowledge structural failures, it is responded to with "well life isn't fair, some people have overcome those failures, those who don't just didn't try hard enough". Ultimate survivorship bias.

[@karatraffas6107]

+

[@tomisaacson2762]

And they're usually very deluded about how self-sufficient they actually are.

[@joshhoward1289]

Or actually believe in personal responsibility and freedoms of choice.

[@tkdyo]

@@joshhoward1289 Thanks for proving their point. If you understood structural issues you would see that personal accountability is not mutually exclusive with working to fix these issues and is definitely not the remedy for them along with the fact these issues actually restrict freedom of choice.

[@markbassig1974]

It would help all pursuing an undergraduate reduce the time to 3 years to complete. The extra 24+ semester hours of classes outside of the degree are distractions and delay pursuing a career.

[@johnmiller3494]

Thanks for breaking those stats down. Can you do a video as to why college may be so expensive, and what could be done by colleges to lower costs?

[@eclowe6594]

Especially infuriating when you consider that a lot of the increase in tuition we've seen 1. Isn't anywhere near proportional and sometimes even inversely proportional to the value those degrees are giving us as far as obtaining a good paying job (coming from a millennial whose family and school and a lot of other people convinced the only way I would be successful was if I took on the debt I'm now drowning in to get my degrees-- have to have a master's to do what I do) and 2. Most of the schools' budgets (and most of what those tuition hikes are going towards) hasn't seen substantial growth in the academics. That money is going into having flashier buildings and fancier sports teams. My last year of grad school our student newspaper ran an editorial breaking down spending and our relatively small, just barely is a D1 school, athletic department spent 22 MILLION MORE than they made in a single academic year!!!

[@lyndsaybrown8471]

In all honesty, most schools should not have sports teams. I know it means a lot to the students, but there are always club teams or there could be fundraisers/personal sponsors. It's only a few schools which actually earn money on athletic events. The rest are just money drains.

[@chesspwn7457]

It's because colleges realized they could make more money instead of being places of learning and focus to being places of "self discovery and extended adolescence". You look at the housing situation in the past and it was 4 brick walls, AC and a bed. Now it's tons of furnishing, pools, pool tables, apartment events, etc. This get exaggerated by the fact that many people are going to college that don't really have an interest or need and so you need to entice those people by perks they care about because they don't care about the education. probably the root of it all is government guaranteed loaning. When back in the day you had to go to a bank and risk their money your college plan was looked into. They'd ask about your major and your dedication to higher knowledge and decide if it was profitable to give you the loan. This means the loaner had a vested interest, via risk, in you succeeding and not drowning in debt and defaulting. By making it basically automatically given upon applying to college and insured by the government the colleges and banks had no bar to apply, they wanted everyone for the money.

[@eclowe6594]

@@chesspwn7457 right. And that student loan servicers have successfully lobbied to get legislation passed that student loan debt cannot be wiped away by things like bankruptcy. So cool if they give you 25, 50, 100k even if it makes no sense to because they'll just garnish your wages and you can't do anything about it.

[@eclowe6594]

@@lyndsaybrown8471 yeah my college actually made cuts stupidly to some of the programs that actually did make more than they spent in hopes students wouldn't notice. The swim meets aren't flashy and don't draw in crowds, for example. But what they have done is produced two Olympians which has lead to endowments from people hoping the school would continue to produce Olympians... Yeah... They cut back the number of trainers and coaches the swim team has. Meanwhile most of the overspending comes from things like the football team chartering private flights to bowl games when they could've flown commercial and putting the football players up in the fanciest hotel in town FOR A HOME GAME to make sure they didn't go do stupid things like get drunk the night before (they pretended it was for team building. Which fine... Whatever...) Why is the fancy 3-star hotel that's over $100/room/night (and often more the weekend of a home game) when there are perfectly good 1-star hotels that still have things like pools and hot tubs and are like half the price? From what I've seen since I've graduated they've made no effort to cut back on the football team's spending.

[@MrBogus213]

I dropped out of HS at sixteen, sixteen years later I began a full schedule at community college. I was so COMPLETELY unprepared. My "advisor" guided me into a business management path. It was so far away from my skill set that I failed two of my five classes. The first day I attended, I found out they had a radio station. I was pretty upset because radio is what I've always wanted to do. The next semester I was on a broadcasting path, only to be failed by an English teacher (whom I had genuinely never met before) that had some vendetta against me from day one. (I even had classmates ask me wtf was up between us) The worst part of that situation being how excited I was to take the class. The fact that both the higher education and healthcare systems in America are for profit, corporate entities is truly one of America's biggest flaws.

[@Oddman1980]

I have to say, I love a lot of those books behind you, I have several of the same titles. I was told by my high school principal to drop out. I had no interest in schooling after high school, and as a result didn't get any higher education and dodged the whole student loan issue. Somehow I still managed to end up in an industry that pays well without destroying my body. Student loans, and they way they are handled, is criminal.

[@deborahdavis6801]

Thank you so much for this!! And let me add this does not even consider why higher ed became so much more expensive in the 1st place (reduction of gov't funding for one) and 2nd, the essential scamming that became the student loan business itself.

[@nataliezuniga943]

I watched a lot of my friends drop out, especially during the pandemic. Almost all of the elements of the drop out pie chart increased as a result of the pandemic: financial pressure, health problems, mental/emotional issues, poor social fit, and distance from home. I'm sure more Americans are now represented by the category of student debt carriers who will see no benefits of a degree in the job market. Though, I hold a degree and work the same retail jobs as my friends who did drop out, so there are occasions where I ask myself if it would have been a better idea to drop out, so as not to have accumulated as much debt as I have. Just the thoughts of a post grad, don't mind me.

[@BlueHazyDreams]

The value of the 4-year has definitely declined. Most bang for your buck nowadays is a 2-year career degree but that better be the career you want. I got the career degree, no more debt, but working high school diploma jobs because there are many unpleasant things I'd rather do than work in that field again.

[@Spankee99]

What degree do you have?

[@nataliezuniga943]

@@Spankee99 I have a degree in Biology. I'm finding I'm underqualified for a lot of roles as a recent graduate. You know what they say - a Master's is the new Bachelor's. Plus COVID restrictions really hindered my lab experience and knowledge as we weren't allowed to do laboratory work. I really feel barely qualified to hold my degree.

[@Spankee99]

@@nataliezuniga943 Masters being the new Bachelors is only true for a handful of fields, Biology lab work might be one idk. And COVID hurt almost everyone’s career advancement especially blue collar workers that don’t have degrees to fall back on. What surprises me is how many people seem to have chosen a degree without ever checking median pay or career prospects.

[@johnchessant3012]

We can do both. I support a onetime debt forgiveness as a (logistically) easy first step, and to address the dropout rate crisis requires a much broader program to reduce inequities between high schools and expand financial assistance to college students (including but not limited to making public colleges tuition-free). It will be expensive but I am sure that it will have positive effects that reverberate through the economy.

[@TheWetdonkey]

The one time debt forgiveness should only be for the dropouts though, makes little sense to forgive the debt of the top earners of american society.

[@dcbolivia]

Or, we could recognize that forgiving student debt will likely make the dropout crisis worse. The more we encourage people to finance their education with debt, the more colleges and universities can charge without ever being held accountable. Forgiving debt sends a signal that you can take out a loan and the government will ultimately pay for it, which only incentivizes more debt.

[@ludvig3242]

@@TheWetdonkey What do you mean by one time debt forgiveness in this context, like forgiving all debt in one go?

[@TheWetdonkey]

@@ludvig3242 Yeah the whole forgive all student debt that everyone is talking about. I think it would be more worth to spend that money on the people who can't even go to college but if I had to compromise I'd say that it should at least be limited to the people who didn't graduate.

[@JordanKerk99]

@@TheWetdonkey IF you're going to go that route (which I think is still wrong, especially optically) it would make more sense to forgive debt based on income rather than graduation status. Plenty of dropouts make more than college graduates and many, if not most college graduates don't even work in their field of study or work in a job that requires a degree.

[@Redpoppy80]

I am one of those dropouts because of academic reasons. Being an Autistic who C.A.N.'T learn from modern homework left me in an impossible position as far as college. The sad thing is, I study things all of the time in my spare time and love learning new things. There is also a phenomenon called "education inflation" that is also driving up college costs because our job market is so overweighted in companies' favor that if you want to any job that pays more than a grocery store clerk, then you will need a minimum of an associates degree and more often, a 6-year course.

[@cary67]

Incomplete analysis. You NEED to point out what percentage of borrowed money actually went towards TUITION and what went towards living expenses and fees. When my daughter was a freshman at CSUF (2014) - ALL freshman were REQUIRED to live in the dorm and to buy a meal plan. The dorm cost and meal plan made up 75% of the actual cost of the first year of school. Total scam by the school to bilk as much as possible knowing that half of all freshman end up dropping out.

[@Methus3lah]

I dropped out of college about eight months ago. It was about a month into the school year. You wanna know why I dropped out? I got COVID. I was pretty much bedridden for like a week. And the crazy thing is, my teachers expected me to keep up during this time. I was expected to turn in assignments, and even asked to come to class via zoom. The fact is, shit happens in life, and the way that we educate students is fundamentally flawed. There are no breaks, there’s no ability to go at your own pace, and heavens help you if you make a mistake. If I had had the ability to just go at the same pace as the class after I healed, being a week behind but still moving, I would’ve been okay with that. I could’ve handled that. I could’ve handled finishing the school year a week later than everyone else. But no. There are no sick days when you’re a student.

[@oWoUwUoWoUwU]

I feel you there. I'm sorry that happened to you. I wanted to share a bit about myself, where I fell very ill and missed weeks of college. I had to withdraw from my courses, which put my aid in jeopardy. Education system needs reform for sure

[@toonman361]

Speaking as a teacher at a tech high school, many of my students caught the milder form of Covid and had to quarantine for one or two weeks. I usually had to contact the parent to see how ill the student was so as to know how to interact with them electronically (or not at all). Most were responsive. I assume you reported to your teachers how ill you were. If not, as a teacher, I'd expect you to be as responsible as any well person. Once I knew you were ill, I would have made allowances and given you extra time to catch up. Depending on the subject matter, skipping a week could cause you trouble later in the class. Hope you're better now.

[@Methus3lah]

@@toonman361 Yeah, because it’s that simple to send emails to my professors with updates about my condition, when looking at a screen shot spikes of pain into my head. I had to be laying on my back constantly, so that my airways were open and I wasn’t putting weight on anything other than my back. Tell me, how does one do assignments on a laptop while screens are painful and holding things is painful and moving is painful? How does one concentrate? And if you choose to answer my questions, please refrain from being a condescending jerk.

[@toonman361]

@@Methus3lah Honest answer, I would hope you had someone to help you during this time. That person could have contacted the school.

[@brendanwatroba8568]

2 of my community college professors told us teaching was their 3rd job and a lower priority than the others. A 3rd got a better job mid term and said we would all pass his Speech class without giving anymore speeches so he could focus on starting his new career. It really made me feel like none of it mattered in the slightest

[@DTA572]

I'm a dropout of a scam school that later closed for fraud. I went for 1 semester, smelled a rat, and got out. Ended up with 15k of debt. 5 years later the location closed along with a ton of other locations due to several types of fraud. loan forgiveness was only offered to those currently attending, or who had attended within 120 days of closing. These schools are still open at different locations, and more and more keep closing due to fraud, it's incredibly sad how this school takes advantage of people wanting to improve their lives. Each time one of their locations closes, I check to see if maybe, just maybe, I'll be able to get my loans forgiven, so far it doesn't seem like I ever will. Thank you for bringing this issue into public view.

[@katherineburtt2502]

I could honestly write a whole essay on this topic. I attempted to go to college right out of high school while working 40-60 hours a week, taking at 18 credit hours, dealing with family dysfunction, housing insecurity, my own mental and neurological health issues, and sleeping only a few hours a night for months on end because I was told that if I didn’t anything less, I wasn’t trying hard enough. I was told that student loans were not an option, and I should just work more. School became secondary to paying for school. I felt guilt and a deep sense of failure for years, but it’s no wonder I dropped out while other students with proper support and resources flourished. I’m now a “non-traditional” student as a soon to be 28 year old college sophomore, but I’m much more equipped to handle the challenge, and I’m setting realistic expectations. I’m going to be quitting my job and living off loans after this upcoming year, but I’ve being smart about it, and it will pay off in the long run.

[@janea4777]

We need to address the cost of text books. I’ve struggled to keep up with my student debt because a single college text book can cost hundreds of dollars. The buy back of said book varies depending on if the course will require different literature in the future. Colleges - private or not are a turn style for ripping off college students.

[@shity_animation]

This is a interesting point ☝️

[@elizabethhenning778]

To some extent, this is up to the instructors (or their departments) who choose the textbooks. Textbook publishers rip people off because they can, because schools keep requiring their textbooks.

[@TerminalThiccness]

This is huge. In my first semester back in the fall of 1995 my books were over SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS. I literally cried after I bought them and went back to my dorm. I can only imagine what those same books would cost now.

[@jobriq5]

I had a physics professor from India who gave each student a 200 page photocopy of the textbook on the first day of class lol. Might not be legal but the students arent gonna complain

[@untappedinkwell]

@@jobriq5 It might have been--some professors use their own book as the books for their class, which means they have the right to make it available for students in the way they see fit. And most libraries and school institutions have some "allowed to make copies" rules, which is how students who photo-copy the textbooks (chapter by chapter) are able to do so.

[@Conservative4]

I don’t know what you’re talking about… I only had to sell my body and soul to the US Government for 8 years, lose my youth, holidays, and general enthusiasm for life in the military. And I’m doing just fine…

[@andymensah2349]

Lol u need a hug bro 😂

[@Conservative4]

@@andymensah2349 Don't hug me. It might be contagious.

[@gravit8ed]

Depression and a bad relationship brought a quick end to my college efforts - but obviously those loans have never gone away, like an STD I'll never get rid of from a good time I didn't have.

[@simonw560]

I work in student loans (technically all financial aid/scholarships but thr system means its mostly processing student loans) and Hank is spot on. Graduation is not a guarantee of a good job/salary but it's a great predictor and any student who withdraws has all the debt but none of the benefits. Going on a two year route before deciding to go to a 4 year college has benefits that are never discussed because enrollment/recruitment is not quite as good at managing discussions of "academic fit" or "financial fit" due to either pressures from upper management or just lack of time per family to consider these details on our side. Integration and mentorship programs help increase the retention and graduation rates but only for students who utilize them.

[@rhiannoningram2080]

I'm actually attending ASU in the fall this year, and let me say: ASU is just like any other university when it comes to student support and pricing and such (as an AZ resident). So it's weird seeing them partner with Crash Course to "help student make better decisions" and "provide resources". I feel like part of what causes drop out rates to be so high is that college students cannot live off of part time jobs the way they could before, and colleges only giving full ride scholarships to full time students. I've asked the folks at ASU about merit scholarships for part time students so I can work to afford to survive, and the answer was a resounding No. Due to circumstances I had no control over, I will be homeless by the time my semester starts, and I asked them what resources they provide for their homeless students besides a food pantry (food isn't my issue, having a house to sleep in is) and they said I could either cough up money for a dorm, or get my tuition money back (which I can't because I'm going on scholarship and financial aid). And on top of all this, they raised the tuition across the board again, and tried making it seems like it was news students wanted to hear. It's seriously demoralizing and discouraging me from even going to college at this point. I'm so fucking frustrated.

[@poisonedfrog]

Shit, that’s terrible… I’m so sorry you’re going through this!

[@tyfalcon467]

if you can manage to get marked as an independent student, that could help. i went from paying AFTER my loans for the rest of my tuition to being able to live - get food and supplies essentially, i was homeless in college as well - decently well. it wasnt enough to live, but it was enough to survive.

[@lijohnyoutube101]

I don’t understand how someone can be homeless in today’s era. It’s RAINING jobs -companies are begging for employees. The only way someone wouldn’t be able to get a job is if they are extremely dysfunctional!

[@rhiannoningram2080]

@@tyfalcon467 I'm sorry you had to go through that, as well. I'm glad you made it work though ! I was planning on moving in with two friends of mine, but I wouldn't even be able to make enough to make a third of rent here once I start school full time (pursuing an engineering degree) so for now, car living it is until I get the rest of my ducks in a row

[@annie4424]

@@lijohnyoutube101 While it’s true that there are jobs everywhere, the ones available to college students (i.e., the ones with flexible hours) are primarily $12/hr and 20 hrs/week. In todays economy, unless you can find three other people to share a studio apartment, you’re still stuck with no where to live.

[@LeoMajors]

My cousin is one of that cohort who took on loans and then dropped out, partly due to lack of financial security, partly due to surviving a sexual assault. Decades later, she's in a low income job, and having those wages garnished further because of her debt is just a fact of life. She will never pay them off. This system needs change. Thank you for doing some of that work.

[@clot1770]

I had a terrible experience. I got a biology and chemistry degree. I worked for 3 pharma companies. All 3 of them laid off employees, especially the newer ones. In that whole 8 years, I was laid off 3 times and only made almost $18 hourly. I went to school again for nursing thinking it would be different. I have been searching for a job for almost a year, and nobody will hire me. Imagine how depressed I feel.

[@sparky2995]

OMG....better words about this crisis could not have been spoken! I appreciate the passion because as one of these students in debt I feel like I'm seen as a leech on the economy. Even though I have 3 jobs, 1 child (no fed/state support), 1 degree and student debt I can't seem to pay down because of interest. I can't even afford to buy a condo and can only rent because I have to make student loan payments. Wish I was given better options as a young man and not blindly told by everyone from family to institutions to go to college with no money to pay for it.

[@CarolinaGothic35]

Hank I think you might be overweighing the impact of “doctors and lawyers” in the inverse relationship of loans to default. While that’s certainly a factor, I think it’s also important to recognize that Returning to school (and thus borrowing more to do so) is a way to put your federal loans in deferment while also possibly living off the loan money (depending on cost of the degree program and the loan). I’m sure it varies by profession but I know TONS of people in allied health and education especially who got a masters degree they did not need because the job market was trash and they were going to default if they didn’t force their loans back into deferment by returning to school. Even though most of those folks finished their masters programs, for the majority it did not make even a slight impact to their wage potential. It may have opened up more job opportunities but so did the end of the recession. And in my profession (occupational therapy)- The whole field is looking at educational inflation now with a push to move from an entry level masters to an entry level doctorate for no reason apart from the fact that a so many students were already pushed into a doctorate program and all they have to show for it is a special title and an extra year of debt (there’s no wage differential based on education). Those students are understandably salty that the majority of practicing occupational therapists “only” have a BA while they’re drowning in debt and our credentialing board is looking to put every potential OT in the same boat. This is happening in a bunch of fields where now the entire applicant field is overly educated after years of dodging their loan payments by pursuing extra degrees.

[@sarah.weaver]

This is just another great(and by that I mean horrific) example of how screwed the system is.

[@pabloalmeida7996]

This is exactly what happened to physical therapy it used to be a masters degree now it was inflated to a doctors level degree. Also in the near future a dietician will now require a masters degree to be able to sit for the exam where now it is currently a bachelors degree. The infuriating thing about this degree inflation is it raises the cost of schooling to get these careers but the salary itself doesn’t increase to reflect the extra schooling and loans one must take out.

[@Belovedselah]

As a fellow OT I 100% approve your message

[@AMTunLimited]

Also, the fact that you can't declare bankruptcy on student loans, making that default number *far* higher than it should be

[@JillElswick]

Yes. Standard bankruptcy protections need to be restored to student loans. This issue never seems to get any traction, despite repeated bills being introduced. Yet it is key!

[@montrelouisebohon-harris7023]

I went and got my bachelor's degree as a paralegal and then I went to law school. That made it easier because I already knew procedural wall in Virginia. I knew a lot about sustainable but I just had to learn more and being a paralegal made it easier for me.. I was working in the legal profession after my law degree for probably about 3 years and then all the sudden 9/11 occurred and I was laid off a week later and then shortly thereafter diagnosed with lupus!! I was in so much pain and even though I was in pain and working before I didn't know what it was but he got really bad the summer of 2001 after an injury and then I would heal and then flare up again and it kept going on and on like that until inevitably finally I was diagnosed clinically but it took another year or so for them to get an actual blood test correct. In 2005 I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and despite loving my long career, there's not really many Law firm jobs around here and especially at my age being 54 and being out of the legal community for the past 20 years!! Yeah yeah I can go back to school and take some stupid classes but I've already got my law degree and I just don't have my bar association of to date and that is so expensive. I have thought about taking some classes and integration law and working as an immigration lawyer . Good grief if we're going to have millions upon millions of immigrants I'm sure they're going to need immigration lawyers everywhere.

[@Vytor01]

Things that made a degree cost more are, 1) Things that students voted on for the school to build and have in the future, ie, a new $50 million gym complex. You had to pay (FEES) for it before it was built and never got to use it. 2) Books. Constantly changing each semester because a professor or teacher did not like what the school was using that covered a few semesters of class learning. You had to buy a $500 dollar book that was supposed to last 4 consecutive semesters and the very next semester, oh, we decided we are not going to use that book anymore, but this book buyback program over here will buy it from you for $30. 3) Paying Professor level pay for a graduate student to teach you who had no real-world experience and did not care if the students wanted to learn or not. Teach for 15 min and leave. You had no clue what was going on and could not ask questions because they could not answer them or refused to help you if you asked too many to understand a subject they expected you to pick up in 2 minutes.

[@raelyndelmonte608]

I would love to see some graphs on the projected GOODNESS that would come from debt relief. House purchases, car purchases, the growth in the economy (which is apparently more important than people), and so many more things i can't even think of. How much better off will the US be in 10 years if we forgive the debt?

[@AdoraTsang]

IMO, schools spend too much money on non-education matters. I went to a school in Florida famous for college football. They are smug about our football players with over 75% graduation rate. I don't get why students are spending decades to pay off loans to subsidize entertainment that causes brain damage.

[@frankchen4229]

is the funding for that not indepenent?

[@andrewb378]

@@frankchen4229 a lot of funding for college sports is independent (especially for football) but some still comes from the school. Often the non-stadium athletic facilities are paid for by the college rather than alumni or advertisers.

[@andrewb378]

They spend way too much on things they don't need. My college for 6000 students had 3 bars on campus. They had a massive athletic facility that was just getting renovated when I got there. And then renovated again when I left, 4 years later. And yet the most-used dorm didn't have a way to dry your hands in the bathrooms. It's crazy the shit they'll spend money on to justify not spending it on students. Our bursar's office had something like 25 people. Do you even have enough work for that many people? Whenever you'd go there there'd be half a dozen people standing around doing nothing.

[@thatgui88]

Not even college but highschool aswell. My highschool had a reputation for having a good football program(2012) but they often catered to wealthy kids. Lower income minorites we're often left out. I think sports in general are funded too much tbh.

[@elleb751]

I'm another one of those students. Was always told there would be no jobs for you if you didn't get a college education, so I went to college. First year was part scholarship part federal loan, next year was part federal loan part private loan, beginning of the third year I didnt qualify for meaningful federal loan and had to seek out private loans. Had bad credit from school debt and not enough income (because I was a full-time student) to qualify for another private loan... had to drop out and picked up tens of thousands of dollars in debt, no degree, and (eventually) a job I didn't need a degree for in the first place. I definitely feel mislead and ripped off. Its been 7 years and I still have tens of thousands of dollars in debt because I was never in a good enough financial place to pay much over the minimum payment. Slowly getting it down, but easily going to pay 3-4 times the original loan amounts by the time I can pay off.. Edit: Spelling.

[@cmhughes8057]

I went back to school to be able to advance in my chosen field, that backfired. I am told “you don’t have enough experience” if I ever hear back at all. Companies do not want to even hire at this point so how are we to pay back what we owe when we really want to? When the degree we got was one that should have helped us get a good job and instead is worth as much as the paper it is printed on, if not less in this job market.

[@katiebogue8755]

kind of disappointed that disability didnt get a mention in the video. Disabled drop out rates are so high and, as a disabled student, I think about dropping out everyday due to lack of accommodations and the burden that trying to access courses places on me.

[@sarah.weaver]

This makes my blood BOIL. Schools should be LEGALLY OBLIGATED to make accommodations. WTAF