What grows better mushrooms?

There's been a lot of take lately about pine or softwood fuel pellets (SWFP) being bad for growing mushrooms on. This is not the case. I almost exclusively use SWFP, and get great yields. This video is a comparison of softwood to hardwood fuel pellets (HWFP). The HWFP is an American Oak, and the SWFP is Pinus Radiata grown in NZ. This species is considered an invasive species in NZ, and grows in huge numbers in the wild. Master mix is the substrate of choice, as it is a very high performer.
The test shows that SWFP is a viable option, performing only slightly worse than the HWFP.
HWFP came in at an average of 0.674g, and SWFP came in at an average of 0.62g. SWFP second flush came in at an average of 0.377g.
This means I get a nearly 1kg on average for every 4.8kg block, that has 2kg of dry substrate in it.
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[@OakandSpore]

Hey team, I actually mix my bags by weight, not by volume as I mentioned in the video. I was confused at the time of filming. I mix the bags and weigh them on a scale after I add pellets, then soy, then water.

[@willbeasley2077]

interesting to see! I live in Vic and I get organic sustainable HWFP from Tasmania by the pallet. I've had some great success, with oysters and nameko on them :)

[@Jason-33W]

Do you get more mushrooms (fruiting) if you have more holes in your bag? For example, if I did a similar setup as you but had holes on top and bottom or in the back, would I get more yields?

[@willbeasley2077]

@@Jason-33W hey dude i can answer this! You probably womt get more yeild but in some cases, the more holes means more air exchange, which can speed up colonization, in this set up it might not be the case, but in something such as buckets for growing, more holes around the sides, and maybe 1 at the bottom for drainage covered with micropore tape will help ensure maximum colonization speeds, and help avoid contamination. Adding extra holes after colonization wont increase yeild, but may provide a larger first flush in different growing techniques

[@Jason-33W]

@@willbeasley2077 Thanks! Great advice and knowledge to share.

[@Hericium]

How much water do you add per weight?

[@allotmentcheers]

Bag slapping is just an innate human trait, compost, barley, malt, animal feed, wood pellets apparently. Brilliant stuff!

[@OakandSpore]

I love a good slap. Just feels right...

[@kurtdixon4700]

😂

[@Lvl2farmer]

​@@OakandSpore slap the bag like in slapping a booty

[@Lvl2farmer]

Im^^

[@wanderingchef6620]

Doesn't just include bags, don't forget the HK slap

[@keyscook]

Looks like a fun hobby. I gather my share in the Pacific NW - Pounds of them :-) Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise - Cheers from Seattle ! 🍻

[@CPtheLyricalBeast]

Never stop slapping bags, you're a natural

[@OakandSpore]

Treat em mean, keep em keen...

[@mariak8480]

Great video! Thanks 😊

[@OakandSpore]

Glad you liked it!

[@tammy-lynnstewart5677]

For the mushrooms that end up overgrown... what do you do with them if you can't sell them? If it was me.... I'd make mushroom jerkey!

[@pattiannepascual]

❤

[@stven8363]

Thank you so much for making this! I can get softwood easily and cheap while hardwood is way more expensive, this puts to rest my worries about not having hardwood 👍

[@jontymills8161]

Softwood is definitely much more economical for us in NZ then! Thanks for the video :)

[@OakandSpore]

Totally agree!

[@Loveslingers]

We use pounds. N America is a lot about profit now not quality so ur wood is probably better and definitely u get more in yours . I hate how profit driven we Americans are.. much love many blessings and as always smile

[@LtCaveman]

Hey thanks for this video. I have only soft wood pines at my altitude and I've experimented a bit with some soft wood mulch. Good to see someone else use soft and get an equivalent flush.

[@OakandSpore]

#TeamSoftwood!

[@Ipolo0000I]

Very very very very very very very interesting! Thank you for this testing! Thank you for all your videos!

[@OakandSpore]

Thank you for the support!

[@chandavlog5221]

Hey mate, I've got 2 questions 1.) What's the weight of the grow bags? 2.) Can you grow Chestnut mushroom on softwood?

[@CTKCerke]

This makes me feel relieved, as hardwood fuel pellets are nonexistant in my country, but pine pellets are abundant.

[@marcusbutler1047]

Hi, I am so grateful for your video as I live in South Africa and hardwood pellets are impossible to get here. So I'll be trying the pine pellets for sure, never have because everybody reckons they are shit for mushroom substrate. Thanks again and keep it up Bud. Kind regards Marcus Butler Pringle Bay SA

[@OakandSpore]

Good luck mate!

[@joshsmit7323]

How did it work out bud? Did swfp work?

[@marcusbutler1047]

@@joshsmit7323 Hi Josh yes the pine pellets work like a bomb, with Oysters I don't even sterilise I soak the pellets in Hydrated lime and a bit of Gypsum for 30 hrs drain for about 2 hrs 10% bran sterilised in micro for 10 mins and pack bags that's it.

[@nashdaflash]

I am JHB how did you get on with the pinewood?

[@marcusbutler1047]

@@nashdaflash Not as well as i would have liked gone back to hardwood shavings

[@valeriavagapova]

Wow! Thank you so much for this, a very interesting experiment with a decent sample size :) I might just try growing oysters on pine cat litter pellets next time lol

[@MetalDoraemon6]

It actually works

[@guyfleegman2333]

Countries that have been to the moon use pounds...

[@CrispyKracker]

Amen

[@ChuckisOutside]

Who on earth uses pounds. The same place that has six flags on the moon and still has their guns. ‘Merica!

[@christopherstein2024]

Everytime you slapped a bag or tossed one around I cracked up. Also talking smack on American units is greatly appreciated!

[@DuneNobleman]

Thanks for the vid. I enjoy your channel. Didn't know if you mentioned it in the video but what size bags are you using? I've heard that the Phoenix Mushroom grew on pine and that Hericiums do as well. I grow mostly on straw. HW pellets are over priced for smokers vs the HW fuel pellets that I can't get here. And soy pellets are also hard to get in my area. So I'd like to see more interesting alternative choices for substrate. Thanks again and keep up the good work!

[@OakandSpore]

I use Unicorn XLT for this. I have grown very good coral tooth on pine as well. We don't have lions mane here, but coral tooth is it's cousin.

[@AM-mt4db]

hi! love your vids! I am curious if you find differences in taste between the two. I know this can't be a quantitative measure but it's nonetheless relevant imo. Another thing I was thinking about is that your yield maybe could improve in the future if you breed the strain specifically for growing on the softwood. Maybe that can make up the difference

[@OakandSpore]

No taste difference!

[@sheenaRyan0428]

Brown/italian strain can really grow on softwood

[@rayyanali4471]

What about the second flush for hardwood?

[@miraclemushrooms1509]

I use a lot of fir pellets myself! Good job letting others know they can use them too

[@OakandSpore]

#TeamFir

[@Marlene5018]

What if next time you make in home the wood chips from hard and soft wood instead of buying it? (I don’t think you can make wood pellets) I believe that some companies that make wood pellets are not trustable at 💯 because they maybe are mixing their product with other ingredients so that’s why you don’t see to much difference after the experiment…

[@LimeFoot]

Doesn't it depend on what kind of mushrooms your growing? For example, naturally lions mane mushroom grows on hardwood, so in this case I'd imagine hard wood would be superior

[@RakkaSan7219]

ideally yes, not required but hardwood is so much better..if my only choice were pine pellets..a sappy wood I'd be growing on straw before SW. and Straw just sucks ass...not for the mushroom but for working with..straw is horrible to work w...its like sand..it gets everywhere on you an in clothes. I wldnt rule out ever using SW, but as in this vid as example...pick atleast day sooner...Large wavy yet Flat as paper caps, in my area is un appetizing...and such a short shelf life. Basically I wld not if other options are available, with Oysters being Oysters...Almost Anything can be a substrate... literally anything...what's big in your area besides SW or straw..lol

[@TheFriendlyStranger7]

Pine pellets sold as cat litter at my local big name supermarket: £4.50 for 10l. Produced decent 1st flush P. ostreatus (Masters mix). Currently trying Lions mane on it. Keep on spanking!

[@OakandSpore]

Good work! Cat litter, the perfect substrate!

[@Billdow00]

Watch out for any additives that might put into it.

[@TheFriendlyStranger7]

Good point. Better check that.

[@valeriavagapova]

Thanks for sharing this! Exactly what I was thinking of trying, I'm even more reassured now

[@TheFriendlyStranger7]

You’re welcome! Lions mane doing well on it now, supplemented with wheat bran. LM runs really fast! Still not certain if this brand has any binding agents.

[@steve-adams]

I'm Canadian and I'm sorry to say I randomly measure things in pounds and kilograms. There is no rhyme or reason. 9kg and 20lb both make perfect sense in my mind. I guess being bilingual runs pretty deep in this country. I came to learn about hardwood vs softwood, but I stayed for the bag slapping. Really nice work!

[@klik23]

Lol, saying America is probably the only time they have a hard "R". Thanks for the video.

[@haidarzahowi8127]

Hey, great video. I was wondering if anyone had success using softwood for growing lions mane. I'm trying it right now and waiting for the results.

[@galacticfarmer4272]

Successful here. Only pasteurised, no supplement. Yiealds of 12% first flush

[@SpankyMcNuttly7624]

I there a difference in taste for mushrooms grown on different substrates?

[@vasabi5135]

probabaly yeah but its almost nothing the biggest difference is in the yeald i think

[@graemedevine9651]

Could it be that the softwood soaks up more moisture than the hardwood hence the slow uptake of the mycyllium? Just a thought

[@robertlerinc3217]

In my Mushroombook : Fist Thing....Hardwood IS good..

[@ripoffrecords]

I just did a bunch of oyster bucket grows on un-supplemented softwood chip (i got arborist to dump) mixed with cardboard. 500gram 1st flush in the bathroom no climate controls. I figure that wasn't bad considering it cost nothing with minimal effort. Good experiment.

[@OakandSpore]

That's a good flush from bucket in the bathroom!

[@MrDeanDog91]

why would you grow shrooms in a bathroom :S ?

[@justdesertgardens9887]

I know it's been a few months since ce you posted this. But if I may, throw a hypothesis your way about why your blocks had such varying differences. You probably already figured it out by now but I belive it's due to temperature gradients /zones in your grow room. Also the VPD (vapor pressure deficit) is probably varying inside your fruiting chamber at different levels of your micro climate you've set up. If you notice, the blocks ranged in size and weight, going from the top shelf to the bottom. What appeared to me was a difference in humidity and temperature levels as to relate to heat rising, cold sinking, and water vapor being dense so at the top where you have it distributed is high in humidity but diminishes as the vapor drops to the ground. Maybe this might be the answer to your problem because your processes, facility and otherwise knowledgability says to me you did everything right. Maybe a tad bit more mixing tho to evenly distribute. Could be you just got tired as you ran through to the end of making the last block lol a workout and a food source. Anyways Mush Love hope I could have helped in some way or another. Thank you for the videos !

[@andrewshatalin9666]

Have you tried using Eucalyptus sawdust ? What were the results, positives and negatives?

[@gomezfriesen]

You get a like, just for complaining about the imperial system. Sincerely, a canadian brewer who has to buy american products all the time.

[@vonhb7471]

Awesome video! now i would like to start my own booth at my local farmers market. I was thinking of Lions mane to start. Can you do a video on the business side and how to get one going? thank you

[@benjamindejonge3624]

Because they can’t do without imperial and hate metrics and roundabouts

[@foxybuddy]

Some suggested that wood pellets don't need to be sterilized, as the process of turning sawdust into pellets means they're already sterilized. This might be a good news for people growing mushrooms at home.

[@SketchybrainD]

Who uses lbs. the vast majority of Americans. Nobody els for the most part

[@rafaelmaschio-entrecameras2448]

I can't find cheap hardwood pallets or hardwood sawdust here in Brasil. Knowing I actually can use softwood just saved me. Thank you so much.

[@chenjiachen5547]

Does softwood pellets work on King Oysters?

[@thekarmafarmer608]

Very interesting comparisons. Thank you for going to all this work to produce usable data. Thanks for posting

[@zeratul600]

who on earth uses pounds... thank you it was bound to be said XD, nice video pal

[@nathanbrenner1656]

Awesome video! I've wanted to experiment with softwood as all the literature seems to advocate only hardwood. Never really understood why. Good to know, that at least for oysters it works well! Thanks for the content.

[@OakandSpore]

Softwood actually does work for a lot of species, more than what people think.

[@rayyanali4471]

@@OakandSpore Lion's Mane and Chestnut? Probably not Shiitake.

[@louisaviall9685]

I’m struggling to find any hardwood sources up here in Akld. Will definitely give soft wood a go

[@johngrady1755]

@@OakandSpore Which species are viable for softwood ?

[@sayuas4293]

Maybe you can sell the mushrooms that look a little less good with a discount.

[@TheGchiu]

Might want to overlay corrections where you have g instead of kg in your tables.

[@OakandSpore]

I do that to confuse Americans..

[@JM27265]

Watch out you might get a strike with all that hard wood slapping 😂

[@Dreammeditaterepeat]

Inoculate at a rate of 2% so for every 1000gm (1kg) you are are using 20gm of grain mix, correct? Have heard many different % rates used, even all the way up to 20%.

[@OakandSpore]

Yes. If you pasturise with lime you need to use 10-20%, if you sterilize with steam you can drop it right back to 2%ish.

[@Dreammeditaterepeat]

​@@OakandSpore Good to know, for my first test run (yet to set up properly controlled.. Well anything) did very little sterilisation, and just used oak and soy pellets that were heat treated in there making, no extra lime or pasteurisation.. used about 200gm of grain mix to every 1000gm substrate, to basically overwhelm anything else that would want to compete.. Seemed to work okay, but not the way I would like to go long term.

[@lennystiggs7806]

How much yall think the variety of mushroom would make a difference. What kind of mushroom was this

[@chouavang9294]

I want to buy your fruit of bags of mushroom, so how much it's cost per bag and how much is the shiping cost?

[@OakandSpore]

Are you in NZ?

[@mattnelson9123]

I'm just loving watching you slap all the things in basically every video, but in this one you're just so slap happy you're just slapping the shit out of everything, I'm just sat here cracking up. Appreciate the effort as always, cheers!

[@OakandSpore]

haha nothing like a good bag slap.

[@mehmetalpyel]

Is it posible to grow lions mane in pine softwood pellets

[@themilkman7367]

why are you wearing a respirator? thanks!

[@llroySaves]

i thought pine was a natural anti-fungal.

[@learnimplementshare3431]

Awesome video. Thanks. Question: I'm wanting to put down some wood chips in my garden and mix in my spent mushroom substrate. I was under the impression it had to be hardwood and definitely not pine. But from your video, maybe it doesn't matter so much? Softwood/pine wood chips might be OK for garden mushis?

[@FlyHikeCamp]

LIS, If you tried it let me know, im wondering the same, have access to free Fir sawdust i could grow mushrooms in (wine cap) but have only used straw before that i had to buy.

[@Liebenz87]

stop slapping the bags wth

[@dantedeluca978]

You ever chuckle to yourself that your business is called 'oak and spores' when you use pine rather than oak? Also, I totally get it, in NZ it's much more expensive for hardwood so why bother, in Australia or US can get cheap hardwood and if they're growing faster means you can turnover faster and get new bags fruiting again

[@OakandSpore]

Haha I know right. I've made the joke I should be called pine and spore many times...

[@DrtERotinBasstrd]

I'm that guy. Pounds forever!! LoL. Would be an interesting test to do the same, but with pasteurized substrate.

[@OakandSpore]

I love a good pounding...

[@alexdibosco]

love this tipe of experiment and vid, can i ask what is the temperature and the umidity for your incubation? keep doing great stuff !

[@OakandSpore]

temps around 22c, humidity around 40% for incubation.

[@phillipkanchiputu2899]

So educative

[@nicksalonique]

Thank you very much for all this experiment!!! I want to ask the following: in my area( Europe -Greece) it's very hard to find hardwood pellet. Is it possible to grow oysters SOLELY on softwood pellet? Thanks in advance!

[@tedbowman6623]

I'm still laughing at your comments... Great video Mate! I'm going to watch all of them. Thanks for making them,

[@tykillingbeck8974]

hey PLEASE let us know what oyster variety you used? I'm currently working on a phoenix oyster on pine

[@WilburthePiggy666]

I use pounds haha

[@ojasphondba7911]

Hey, phoenix oyster know to grow on pinewood, I want to know all other oysters also grow on pine wood substrate ? Like pink oyster,blue Oyster, golden oyster, king trumpet and some other gourmet mushroom ? Please reply back.

[@alit7313]

When you started slapping those bags, I wasn’t sure if I was gonna be watching a mushroom video, or something a little different LOK

[@wanderingchef6620]

I haven't finished the whole video yet I just got to the point where he introduced the mushrooms. All I have to say is Phoenix is known for preferring softwoods.

[@Dreammeditaterepeat]

I was trimming the cluster stems as well and using them for stock till I saw Wicked Kitchens Mushroom stake.. GAME CHANGER... that cluster stem is GOLD

[@evergreenmushrooms9637]

It looks like this is the Phoenix Oyster, which grows well on pine. Would you recommend growing other species on pine? Love your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!

[@OakandSpore]

I grow pink, velvet, phoenix, coral tooth, and have grown shiitake on pjne

[@naturesADHD]

you rok man! inspiring me to build my own farm here in medico city

[@justwhistlinpixie]

Mossy Creek said they had better success with softwood for lion's mane. They said that it actually out-performed the hardwood.

[@GropEyurnuss]

THANK YOUUUUUU!

[@chouavang9294]

Let me know if I buy 10 bags how much it's cost., how much is the cost of shiping?

[@michaelsalbego9245]

Epic video. Was just the info I was looking for. What are your pasteurization temps and times that you are achieving? I have access to a lot of Douglas fir wood chips here in the US. I think it is similar to Pine, so I am eager to do some experimentation. Thanks again for the continent. It’s great super helpful.

[@SUPERMILKPOTATOES]

Very nice to see are you thinking on trying other types of mushrooms in softwood vs hardwood. I kinda have the same problem in terms of price hardwood here is insanely expensive i can literally buy 100 kg of softwood for the same price of 15 kg of hardwood.

[@OakandSpore]

Why use hardwood when you do't need to!

[@SUPERMILKPOTATOES]

@@OakandSpore Yeah that is true but im just getting started growing mushrooms at home and everywhere i look they always say dont use softwood, i was actually gonna get some softwood for testing because im not paying that insane price for the hardwood, but this video showed me exactly what i was looking for

[@irilesyataghene1567]

@@SUPERMILKPOTATOES make shure you use phoenix oyster mushroom

[@ianmorcott3113]

Try using a cement mixer to blend your sub-straight with water.

[@jordancrosswhite2385]

Mate do you reckon you could use pine shavings or chips instead of pellets?

[@SkidMarkSmeller]

You should try the “goat mix” by mossy creek mushrooms

[@Billdow00]

cool, Now do pre mixed vs in the bag

[@OakandSpore]

I might just do that!

[@Billdow00]

@@OakandSpore Also Cutting the bags in a k shape vs a square. 30% hardwood and soy vs 60% softwood and soy. Top fruiting lions mane, cold weather mushrooms, and crossbreeding mushrooms. Thank you lol

[@Billdow00]

Also is pine the one with antifungal oils?

[@OakandSpore]

Yes, but I think they are removed during the pelletisation process...

[@miguelrobles4907]

@@OakandSpore have you tried growing on pine sawdust from a local sawmill or other form of sawdust other than pellets?

[@troyt6006]

EVER TRY MASTIQUE WOOD FROM TEEEEEEXAS USA...? ITS EVERYWHERE IN TEXS AND PRETTY COSTLY... I HAVE ACCESS TOO 120 ACRES PLUSS IN DILLEY TEX, CAN SEN U FEW BAC=GS BEING MULCH TYPE ORR EVEN SMALL LOGS.. THEY US IT FOR QQXING BUT, PROBLY GIVE MUSHROOMS NICE WOODYS TSTE EVERYONE LOVES... EXSPEALLY IN TEXAS.. FREED DRYED '

[@miguelcarrilho4462]

What a great experiment! Thank you!

[@RakkaSan7219]

I'm sorry but I just cldnt let it go. I like your Ch...an all that, but brother.....brother.. Your HW was almost perfect when you picked the SW, which looked OverPrime...You IMO shld have picked HW the day you picked the SW..and SW shld have been picked atleast 1 day earlier....unless wavy over grown caps are what you NZers like. but sorry mate, horrible " Prime Fruit", I'm 100% assuming after seeing this and not researching further that it's a NZ thing.

[@OakandSpore]

Some caps might have been over grown, but any small than that and you'll get rubbish biological efficiency.

[@donmcleod8307]

Thank you. Very thoughtful

[@strattgatt5303]

We use pounds in Canada still. Metric is mostly for foreigners and scientists.

[@smashmash2714]

slap those bags,, i think slapping the bags must improve yield.thanks for the vid!

[@OakandSpore]

Bags love a good slap...

[@tangydream298]

Who on earth uses kilos 😂

[@Mikecloudo999]

Everyone else? 😂😂😂

[@Khaymen223]

All the American BBQ fans silently thinking about ruining a brisket smoking with soft wood. Lol

[@OakandSpore]

That tasty pine flavor... Might work?

[@smmills91]

Were those 5kg substrate bags?

[@Tony211289]

Oh here we go, finally!

[@tyo6896]

Lol, that bag slappin!

[@ojasphondba7911]

Because finding specific wood sawdust or pellets imposible in india but recently I have found organic pinewood pellets in pet store. pleased let me know is it possible to grow pink oyster on pinewood pellets.

[@OakandSpore]

Yes its possible. I use pine for pink oyster.

[@davinstilwell9675]

Hey Tom, curious. would I be able too use pasteurized hickery pellets alone as a substrate?

[@OakandSpore]

I honestly have no idea. You'll want to add some sort of nitrogen additive, maybe soy hulls or wheat bran. Unless the hickory has some natural antifungal like walnut does, then it should work. We don't really have hickory here in NZ.

[@jeremywilliams708]

I live in the us and I'm laughing my ass off of what your saying about us about the pellets

[@OakandSpore]

I love me some good pellets!

[@adamschuut4337]

super interesting!!!

[@channelx812]

hi great video.... When the temp goes up to 29 do you do anything to cool it down or do you just leave it and keep RH high?

[@wande.r]

Fruiting a species that tolerates higher temps, is a possibility, or brute force it and crank your aircon to 21 to save yr shitake. But the costs..... better to work with the seasons than against. Heard a lot of people struggle with this and even planning your species for seasons can be difficult. What's yr thoughts?

[@miguelrobles4907]

Have you tried growing on pine sawdust/shavings from a local sawmill or other form of pine other than pellets? I just can't wrap my head around why pelletization transforms pine into a viable substrate, does the toxic pine oils evaporate in the process? Or what do you think happens?. Love your channel

[@jast9999]

Would love to know that too

[@johngrady1755]

As an amateur grower I'd say that there is no difference between the pellets and sawdust. The pellets are just compressed together and they turn back into dust when they absorb moisture. The pine resin is essentially an anti fungal that helps protect the tree. Phoenix oysters specifically are known to be able to grow on pine. I am not yet aware of other species

[@estebandelavega1235]

....and all I could focus on is the john dory on your shirt....😂

[@OakandSpore]

Best table fish, hands down.

[@markcrossan]

Mushrooms do like optimum disturbance

[@OakandSpore]

I know shiitake do, but have never seen a correlation with disturbance and oysters....