What Happened at USO Tacoma? | How Misinformation Won a Warhammer 40k Supermajor

[@thetimebinder]

He literally read the transport rule out of his codex to his opponent and a judge and stopped mid sentence right before the text that said Graz couldn't embark the transport THEN asserted that his citation was all it said, and that there was no more. He bold faced lied on camera.

[@elijahherstal776]

Typical competitive 40k goon

[@piedpiper1172]

If I learned I got one stat of one model wrong by one point, I probably would apologize and play on with any judged penalty. Find out I fundamentally misplayed the core of my list in a shadow round with 5 undefeated lists but only 4 slots? Immediately drop out so all 4 of the other undefeated lists that didn’t misplay could advance. Waiting until he won and got called out more broadly is the issue and really makes me hesitant to give a benefit of the doubt. It’s some comfort to the Sisters player who was #2, but there is another player who played fair but didn’t even get to compete in the final because this flawed list took his spot. No amount of ignorance of the rules explains the choice not to drop out once you learn you made such a big error at such a high stakes point in the tournament.

[@BeardHammerGaming]

This is why rules should be free so everyone can read other armies rules and have an idea of what they can and cant do.

[@ColonelHoganStalag13]

You mean like what GW said they were going to do at the outset of 10th? Turns out GW doesn't care about the game itself as much as they do short term profits.

[@BeardHammerGaming]

@@ColonelHoganStalag13 pretty much. We're witnessing the slow end of warhammer 40k as we know it, they no longer care about the fans that got them here only short term cash grabs.

[@TheNarwhal85]

I always hear this argument as is somehow players are unable to look At wahapedia. All the rules are free just not with gw

[@BeardHammerGaming]

@@TheNarwhal85 the average person doesn't know that option exists, plus it's not the most user friendly format for mobile imo.

[@justarandomtechpriest1578]

​@@TheNarwhal85wahapedia isn't well formatted for mobile and is technically piracy

[@BaneChain236]

I don’t know how a game is expected to be played competitively when so many rules are locked behind a paywall

[@jules9094]

The whole game is locked behind a paywall, but as for the rules there are other ways to get them for free 🏴‍☠️

[@BaneChain236]

@@jules9094 right, but if you’re playing in a tournament under a tine limit, you can’t just look something up quickly and easily

[@jules9094]

@@BaneChain236 aren’t you supposed to have everything like that at hand. I know the GTs I’ve played in you have to have all that stuff available

[@MarcosGarcia-et1qu]

Playing 40k competitively is already it's own issue. With how the game is never balanced, to me there is no competitive 40k. It's practically just free test gaming for GW

[@Wes-xk6hl]

​@@BaneChain236 wahapedia

[@magnusdidafewthingswrong7976]

Something similar happened to Richard Siegler at the 2023 Tampa Open, He misinterpreted a big guns never tire and overwatch interaction and basically was using the rule wrong for about 5 games. When it was caught by a judge he conceded the match and withdrew from the tournament, and went up and apologized to all of his previous opponents apologizing for the mistake he made.

[@marcussloss6937]

what a stud. Richard is a classy dude if that is the case.

[@sirath35]

That’s entirely a personal choice that probably has to do with his branding

[@chromehunter18]

@@magnusdidafewthingswrong7976 apparently so were his opponents cause none of them corrected him. Another problem with tournament play.

[@GeoffSmites]

@@chromehunter18 Thats another problem in itself. 40k is such a sprawling mess, that its pretty impossible for every player to know the rules intricacies. that why nobody said anything for 5 games. Literally NOBODY KNEW THE RULE. Not even the player. And on top of that, its hard to look up the rules. Would it be in the FAQ? The Core Book? The Dataslate? Which Eratta? Aint nobody got time for that. Literally.

[@chromehunter18]

@@GeoffSmites that's my point. You can't have a competitive scene with no one knowing the rules. How can you play without knowing the rules. It's ridiculous.

[@MrHoneuma]

He was on livestream purposefully misrepresenting the transport rules to an opponent who questioned it reading it straight out of the codex and omitted the restriction portions. It was not just missplays; he did it on purpose and only stopped once he got caught by a judge. Also, there's the contradiction that your source says that there was no card system in place, but people attending, including the player in question, mention yellow and red cards.

[@Morendie91]

They dont officially use a carding system and will never red card someone, they dont believe in removing someone from a event, even for cheating. The confusion is the said player got WARNINGS, which is what a yellow card is used for in events. all non gw events use the ITC carding system, which GW owns now. So a warning/yellow card is the same thing, but GW just doesnt officially use the system.

[@scheikundeiscool4086]

@@Morendie91 Not removing ppl for cheating seems like a pretty good way to ensure ppl will be cheating.

[@informitas0117]

A "bad reader" doesn't always make mistakes that favor themselves. He only stepped down because of the backlash.

[@ArCSelkie37]

And even if he is a bad reader, those are the sort of mistakes acceptable at casual events… not 400 man tournaments with some relatively big prizes.

[@labtec514]

​@@ArCSelkie37I disagree, exhaustion can play a massive factor, perhaps even something like dyslexia

[@ArCSelkie37]

@@labtec514 exhaustion may have made sense at the end… in this particular case, he made the same mistake every game prior. Was he exhausted in game 1 too? And while yes, dyslexia can cause issues it is usually for words of a similar spelling/length not just completely omitting sentences words and numbers… and to be harsher, if someone has dyslexia they, as the one with the condition, ought to take steps to mitigate it. It’s not on anyone else to make sure you get your rules correct, and they also don’t know if you have dyslexia. While on their own the things you say are completely reasonable, I don’t think they mitigate enough responsibility in a case repeated almost constant “mistakes” and a history of it.

[@88porpoise]

​@@labtec514He built his army around a rules violation. That can be an honest mistake, but it was not exhaustion, and something I have little sympathy for. The mistake on the model stats I wouldn't care about. It's a long day and an old value, that will happen. If the judge was unaware he had done it before, I think their response was reasonable. However, in context that he used this every single round, I think that assigning him the loss in the shadow round would be an appropriate penalty.

[@Jelle1880]

Terrible that he uses Orks to cheat his way into a win, Orks players have a good reputation in general. Should be krumped for his behaviour

[@patelliott8282]

If he was indeed simply bad at reading rules and these were indeed honest mistakes, then you'd expect about half of his mistakes to benefit his opponent, no? 100% of his "mistakes" benefit himself. That's not a coincidence. For any MtGheads out there, this is just a rerun of the Alex Bertoncini scandal. Player who has been cheating his pants off for years and hiding behind the thin veil of playsible deniability has his claims of "sloppy play" dispelled by the revelation that there is an extremely consistent pattern in who his mistakes happen to benefit. The Reddit post was an attempt to save face. As you said, the moral thing to do would have been to drop from the event before the event concluded. And even after the event, the moral thing to do would have been to drop and forfeit his winnings BEFORE this controversy caught fire and forced his hand. And even in the Reddit post he still, as you noted, doubles down and refuses to admit that he was at fault or that he did anything wrong. It was all "mistakes" that "could have happened to anyone" which is a blatant refusal to accept responsibility. And the literal recorded cheating examples that we do have, that are freely available online, are pretty damning. Reading directly from the rulebook while conveniently pausing mid-sentence to skip over the exact rule that he was specifically asked about by his opponent seconds earlier... This dude is 100% a serial cheater. Cheaters get away with it by pretending that their cheats are honest mistakes and exploiting the benefit of the doubt afforded to them by strangers. Again, this is Alex Bertoncini all over again. Marshall should receive a lifetime ban from organized play (as he has already received from some local venues), and GW should tighten rules enforcement at competitive events like this. Why would any first-time tournament goer want to come back after losing to a known cheater who suffered no consequences whatsoever?

[@jorallan]

This is potentially where we start needing something like Magic: The Gathering's "Rules Enforcement Levels"; tl;dr: there are three levels (Regular, Competitive, Professional) and as you go up the levels you are required to be more and more viligant about both your own play and the game as a whole.

[@dudemcfurgusson7179]

Magic also has the worst levels of cheating in tabletop gaming, so maybe using them as an example of a better system isn't the greatest idea.

[@behemoth9543]

@@dudemcfurgusson7179 Magic ONCE had the worst levels of cheating. Maybe you´re still thinking of old magic tournaments where things were really agregious but the state of magic tournaments has improved a lot since then, due in part to their system.

[@dudemcfurgusson7179]

@behemoth9543 no, I'm thinking of the current system. I can't think of a major tournament that's happened in years that didn't have one controversy or another regarding a top level player being caught on camera cheating.

[@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle]

​@@behemoth9543there's still tons of cheaters in competitive magic tournaments, the difference is they're better at hiding it now

[@Morendie91]

We do, this is a GW event, they dont do shit, the TOs who run events for GW dont believe in red carding/removing a player from event even if they cheated, the most they will do is a point penalty. We have had this happen 2 opens in a row in tacoma and GW never does anything. I've talked with them and they dont believe its fair for the player who cheated to lose out on the event. At other big events when someone cheats, they get booted, and there is always drama over it. Texas has a quartely cheating scandal for people to watch drama for xD. If anything happens at a GW event, the only consequence is what the said player does.

[@nellynelson6574]

I love how you keep referring to it as “misplaying the rules” rather just call it for what it is - *CHEATING*

[@Hurricanelive]

100%

[@airborne248]

This isn't new behavior from Marshall Peterson. He is a known cheater who has been banned from multiple other events.

[@captaincorundum9788]

He's such a loser lol

[@BAGELMENSK]

I'm entirely willing to accept he's just bad at reading rules. I know at least one other ork player that rivals this stuff.

[@mikoajkosowski1750]

@@BAGELMENSK That excuse could work at lower tables or at casual play, not at top tables of a big event.

[@jacket2848]

​@@BAGELMENSKdon't be so stupid.

[@captaincorundum9788]

@@BAGELMENSK Nah, not an excuse, especially because he has a history.

[@shadowywarrior]

i will assign malice into this. Simply due to the fact that this guy is a VETERAN competitive player. And DELIBERATELY on multiple occasion to read the rules properly in a manner that 100% ALWAYS favors him demonstrates intent. You could say that he's really bad at reading, but that would imply that...at least some cases it would work against him. But they don't. they never do. It isn't bad at reading, its purposefully misconstruing the rules to favor himself. he has done this too many times, too consistently, to claim that this is sloppy. He shouldn't be making these mistakes CONSTANTLY. Not at the level of gameplay he is claiming to be a part of. and the fact that no one calls him out on it demonstrates he's banking on others trusting him so that he can keep doing these things

[@chaosof99]

These sorts of stories are always hard to evaluate. It reminds me a lot of Alex Bertoncini, an infamous Magic The Gathering player. Bertoncini cheated but those game actions he cheated with were always things that you could conceivably attribute to just sloppy play. The thing though is that these "sloppy" mistakes were always in his favor and never to his detriment. After being caught with such practices, including stuff he had been warned about and infractions from before, he would eventually get slapped with bans from tournament play. He would sit those off, return to tournaments and cheat again. Eventually this lead to a lifetime ban from tournament play. I hope this isn't a similar situation and at least the player gave up his ill-gotten gains.

[@mikoajkosowski1750]

Sadly this player has a repeated history of similar stuff happening (he was recorded on stream while he was reading a rule from the book to an opponent and left out a sentence that strictly prohibited the thing he was attempting to do) and leading to him winning big tournaments because of that, so it's pretty hard to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

[@invalidcreations]

Cheating in the guise of ignorance, there could be any number of players in communities doing this without anyone realising.

[@jacobwilbers9852]

Funny magic sidenote bertoncini is in a nerdcore rap song called bertoncinis back admitting and joking about his cheating😂.

[@thelegendsmith3063]

A caviat here if gw didnt lock all info of factions when they get a codex players could check other peoples rules and strats etc

[@Nekromageofapocalyp]

this

[@nurglematthew893]

Yup

[@XYZdude00]

I often build my opponents list in battle scribe lol

[@mumblez7712]

At the minimum, WH+ subscription should unlock everything in the app. To make such an awesome resource and then slowly paywall it away bit by bit kinda sucks

[@thelegendsmith3063]

@mumblez7712 would make sense but they are to greedy for that fact they bragged about making 35% profit and still rose prices the following year speaks volumes

[@Robotech2049]

Funny how he never misread a rule to his detriment instead of always to his favor.

[@TheNinetyFirstPeanut]

If someone does that why would anyone ever hear about it?

[@Robotech2049]

@@TheNinetyFirstPeanut Yep. To clarify, this guy is known for misreading rules, he makes the case it was unintentional but there is no evidence that he ever misreads them the “other” way. His “errors” are always a buff, never a nerf.

[@jorgemontero6384]

@@TheNinetyFirstPeanut We see this all the time in tournament streams, when people misplay to their detriment. All over the place

[@billjensen51]

He very well could have actually. We cannot know this.

[@imightjustmakeit]

That was how my last game was. All his rules were trust me bro but anytime I had a army rule he didn't know or wasn't in his favor he went reading it and we had to wait. Told me my primarch literally could only use 2 moves then somehow the building blocked me but he immediately shot me like the building all of a sudden didn't exist.

[@punchyMiddleEarth]

40K filled with cheats, the Perth scene has heaps, Locky Rigg and Callum German are at the top of the list!

[@dreadclown9977]

There is a player that (as of a month ago) was in top 20 on ITC USA and is notorious for making mistakes like this with his army that he should know front and back by now with the amount of top 3's he's been in. So I understand the frustrations of other players dealing with this.

[@netherby4335]

Generally I think if you have been 'cheating' the entire time (intentionally or no) and it's discovered you have made a MAJOR rules error (what counts as major would have to be decided by a judge or yourself), then you should be disqualified from the finals, either by yourself or a judge. We all make mistakes, but when it's something you did in every single game leading up to the finals... Yeah you need to bow out.

[@Dorsidwarf]

Gotta agree - if you find your core powerhouse strategy was actually invalid the whole time, you GOTTA fold in that situation because your wins werent fair.

[@KuK137]

@@Dorsidwarf Except, to give benefit of the doubt, he somehow is still good enough to win with -10 points and cornerstone unit teleported back to his table edge which is just WTF, how bad his opponent is he can't win with this massive advantage?

[@goliath1179]

Orks have a ton of T5 and if you’re into game 8, you know damn well what their toughness is. You don’t mistake that

[@DuppyBoii187]

Idk how you think that's an unreasonable mistake, it happens constantly even with armies you actually do play.

[@goliath1179]

@@DuppyBoii187 we're talking 8 games over the course of what, a few days. He can't just suddenly say they're a new toughness, that stuff is ingrained into your brain after hours upon hours of near constant games

[@jayscott8583]

@@DuppyBoii187 thats crap I can tell you off the top of my head the toughness of just about everything in my army after 1 game. This guy cheated plain and simple.

[@shadowywarrior]

@@jayscott8583 yeah, i play ultramarines exclusively. I can tell you off the top of my head the toughness value of every single unit in my army. I can tell you their exact ruling, and point to the dataslate, FAQs, or core rules for them. I can tell you what weapon they have, their stats, their abilities. You are suppose to know your army inside and out. The backing of the rules and abilities is for the sake of your opponent. If you can't remember your own rules, it means you didn't practice enough with it. Or you're actively hoping your opponent doesn't call you out for misconstruding the rules

[@KuK137]

@@shadowywarrior The problem is (like this video points out) that some fanboy clown at GW gave orks absolutely ridiculous, laughably broken T levels during 9th edition, making them tougher than custodes despite their t-shirts and if you didn't play orks much in 10th, you could make this mistake honestly. It's much easier to remember SM as 95% of your army is T4, with exceptions like Gravis being logical and not 'screw you all I like this HQ so will arbitrarily give it broken statline' ork dude channeling Phil Kelly lolrules writing did last edition...

[@anthonysees5015]

If I ever run into Perterson at a tournament, I am going to require him to show me every single data sheet and rule for his army. And I'll be going over his list with a fine tooth comb, and asking as many questions as I see fit to ensure I know what's going on. It would take time, but it would be worth it.

[@ccgdream5393]

Odd there was no mention of Marshall firing Flash gitz out of the ‘Ard case Battlewagon, which he did do

[@Skhmt]

If he constantly makes rules mistakes and they're always only to his advantage, I think we know what's actually happening, and it's not just he's "bad at reading".

[@Olsnapper]

Nothing less than a lifetime ban from all events in the USA, and to be shamed every time he steps into a game store. he's a manipulator and has a lengthy history of cheating, screw that guy!!! Cheating your way to the top without hardly receiving a slap on the wrist is just a really bad look for this game.

[@Morendie91]

Any other big non GW 40k event he would of been red carded and booted. GW specifically doesnt believe in really punishing players or even booting cheaters. They let this shit slide last year too. We ended up banning a player who cheated at the top at last years open in the PNW for a bit because of last years issues.

[@tuno9819]

I just want to thank you for all the evet coverage and for been part of the community!

[@DeathInTheSnow]

I'm so glad that GW have been prioritising tournament play like this for so long, and we're seeing things like this still happen. So glad that it hasn't harmed casual 40K, the thing that makes up over 99% of matches. You know, like cutting out fluffy rules, or making all units have fixed sizes, or changing the points to a Power Level system, or messing with the movement rules. OH WAIT

[@drussarn]

i still think 40k (and other games) needs a tournament rules set and a casual rule set. 1 being balanced but fun with fluffy rules 2 being balanced for tournaments with micro rules sets to control tournament players

[@DeathInTheSnow]

@@drussarn I get what you're saying, but GW are having a huge amount of difficulty just keeping _one set_ of rules working properly. But I think the bigger issue that needs addressing is why GW feels that a _hobby_ needs to be competitive in the first place. It's supposed to be a relaxing thing in-between work and sleep, not a sweaty winner-takes-all throwdown. If the only rules left are the highly tuned, hyper aggressive, streamlined and ultimately dull ones, then there's no fun left to be had. If some people _want_ those rules, then it's easier to take them out from a much bigger, fluffier game than it is to take a stripped down game and add fan-made rules instead. Think of it like Smash Bros.. Imagine if they released the next game, and it was only the top 8 tournament characters, only Final Destination, and no items. Nothing else came on the disc. Do you think the game would sell well? A handful of tournament players might give it a go, but they people that want to play _a game_ will just pass it up. _That's_ where 10th is heading.

[@sheevpalpatine9532]

I was recently looking back at my 8th edition guard codex and was like "Damnnnn... Those were the days" Bloody soul in that codex.

[@lionman8295]

Yeah I wish they put some of the effort from AoS to 40K, there biggest game by a lot!!!

[@SilimSavertin]

@@sheevpalpatine9532 Then play 8th? or does nobody else in your area feel like that? Its not like GW is gonna go dropkick you in the balls for playing an older edition.

[@ratedjentertainment]

It's finally nice to see a channel covering some tournament news and other Warhammer topics in a clear and concise manner. As well as doing it with CRISP audio. Oh man the quality audio is a God (Emperor) Send.

[@willogsdon7092]

Been waiting for your breakdown of this one

[@TacticalTortoise]

Hope it was worth the wait! ;)

[@tim9241]

@@TacticalTortoisehonestly - think you could have been a little more harsh! The “bad at reading” line is fun irony, but the fact Marshall only seemed to make mistakes that advantage himself is proof enough to call a spade a spade - the bloke was knowingly cheating and deserves to get called out accordingly

[@Dorsidwarf]

@@tim9241 I mean, with a sample size of, what, 3 seperate mistakes? That doesnt seem THAT alarming; its when its an over-and-over-and-over "always in your favor" thing you gotta go "yeah sure buddy, heres the door"

[@Morendie91]

@@Dorsidwarf Your playing in a 40k major with a ton of seriously good players, the PNW is no slouch. If your playing so good you make it in the top cut there isnt much of a excuse, considering the mistakes made were HUGE gameplay breaking mistakes, You dont get to play the whoopsie card at that level

[@hardrada8407]

I don’t like to assume malicious intent - really though if there are so many infractions you should just be disqualified or penalised on points heavily. This prevents cheating from actually paying off, and rewards good adherence to rules.

[@drujo25]

GW makes games to sell minis, not to foster a legitimate competitive environment.

[@quackalicious970]

40k was never a good competitive 30k make for a better competitive game

[@petethehawk5186]

This guy gets it

[@dibblemcbibble2787]

Yeah no there are examples of this guy reading rules on stream out loud and just leaving out the words that make him unable to do the thing he’s doing. Multiple. Absolutely no one would make that battle wagon mistake. I play in his local scene and he has a terrible reputation for this and is store banned at one particular store. You’re sweeping hard for this dude, not cool.

[@TheTheloraxster]

The "he's just bad at reading" is honestly, a bad take. I know you don't know him and I don't either, but lots of people in my local community do know him. He's a known cheater, full-stop. The "provable" things he has done wrong are the tip of the iceberg, according to many people in my local scene. I think the 40k community needs to accept that a certain (small) percentage of people will knowingly, intentionally cheat. We seem to want to believe that every rules misplay is an accident (because the majority of them are), but we need to understand that certain people will intentionally cheat at toy soldiers, as sad as that is. Until then, we're going to struggle with these kinds of issues in the competitive scene.

[@stevencarmody1755]

How can a player get his rules wrong when the requirements to play are to have your codex to check and focusing on another faction does not excuse the "mistakes" he made he knew what he was doing and you can guarantee he will do it again and again and again

[@shadowywarrior]

do you even need to have your codex? you could use the app or even wahapedia to give your opponent the rules

[@Nexagon42]

Thanks for your levelheaded research on this heated discussion 😊

[@ipot399]

6:35 Shouldn't the undefeated guy go straight to the top bracket? Why should they have to play a shadow match and potentially miss getting a chance to win the whole tournament?

[@TheLabRatCometh]

There are four slots in the top bracket and there were more than four undefeated players left

[@josephhefley9701]

This dude knew what he did. He tried to play ignorance since he hasn't played orks since 9th conpetetively. You can't change my mind. You even said he convientley keeps making "mistakes " in competetive play and didnt concede when called out. If you play anything competively, ignorance of the rules is absolute BS and youre either lying through your teeth or you're being intentionally ignorant and you know youre being dishonest. He didnt drop until after the win and got backlash. He should have dropped that day, but he got greedy. Then at the end he tried to play it off in his final statement. Dude is a cheat that has a history and acts ignorant. "Sloppy" is not an excuse, the fact that everyone gives people the benefit of the doubt IN COMPETETIVE PLAY show the gullibility of the community. Dont project yourself and your morals on others. Not everyone is honest and devil's advocate doesnt always apply. Believe peoples actions, not their words. If something happens again and again, its not an accident, its a pattern.

[@taten-jinmu718]

A known person who fudges their rules and has been caught multiple times doing it... should have been immediate disqualification during the shadow round. Played 4+ games while cheating

[@Tinytraveler]

On a personal note, glad to see you feeling better mate!

[@MatthewPaul-x1o]

I was permanently banned from a small store's 40k and AoS tournaments. They were nothing big, but I won 4 out of 6 events in both 40k and AoS, and then a few months after the last one, the store manager called me and said he got reports that I had cheated on 2 of my games and was banning me. He wouldn't say what event, what game system, what opponent, or what rule I allegedly misused. Unfortunately, the decision was made because 2 locals made the claim using exact wording from FLG's code of conduct. My entire team withdrew from the upcoming events due to how suspicious the accusations were. I was playing with underperforming armies in both game systems, which can be frustrating to lose against, but they are armies I ran at 40-120 player GTs, so it was surprising to hear in the middle of a season. Sometimes you wish that events were more regulated to prevent favoritism, but then you run the risk of GW getting it's claws into small local events.

[@schwegburt3002]

Track how often someone makes rules "Errors" in your favor vs their favor. It's a good thing to track and Marshall seems to always err to his benefit. That's damning. Now, assume Marshall's 100% honest. Then imagine yourself making it deep into a tournament . . . Would you really want to put your tournament on the line vs a dude that consistently makes major errors with the rules? Marshall's a "That guy" player even if he's honest.

[@jayscott8583]

How is someone who is "is bad at reading and comprehending rules" placing so high so often......

[@crashingatom6755]

@@jayscott8583Well he’s cheating his ass off. Oh you were being sarcastic, sorry. 😂 Yeah, this dude is a psycho who cheats and loves getting away with it and it’s weeeeiird.

[@KuK137]

@@jayscott8583 Except, to give benefit of the doubt, he somehow is still good enough to win with -10 points and cornerstone unit teleported back to his table edge which is just WTF, how bad his opponent is he can't win with this massive advantage?

[@misterjoshua5720]

If you acknowledge you were playing the game wrong but also said you were keeping the W, I think it's only fair that every time you go to a tournament you should have to wear a bright yellow chicken hat with the words "check my rules" written in Sharpie on it.

[@Lord_Aba]

This is why they should bring back some metal models. A metal dreadnought in a sock would solve this.

[@endimyon87]

He can go to "wargaming podcasts" because no one of this allegedly "warhammer influencers" know jackshit about the rules, so when someone spills on a "original ubertacticxxx do not steal!!" they go "wooooow!" :D :D :D

[@slabking4169]

Great coverage. I wish the real news was this high quality. Thanks

[@bigpoppa1234]

Why would you put the model "in the deployment zone" if it was being illegally moved, it should removed from the board.

[@davidea12]

100% agree, it was never deployed or put in reserve so should count as destroyed

[@ltGargoyle]

this seem like a bad cheater to me. when you compete on this level. you know your army. he should have been disqualified.

[@bloodgold6685]

"Just really bad at reading" Here let me help you with that line. "He's a player that on numerous occasions misrepresents his army's stats to edge out wins when his opentants dont know his army or until hes questioned and then its oops it was that way in 9th, 8th ectt." Cheatin the same opps way every time does not make him bad at reading. Makes him a cheater. Play one army then till you know it in and out.

[@kkirT]

The limp wristed response to cheating makes 40k tournaments a joke

[@IndienessExperiments]

Would have liked to see you address his behavior while playing necrons during 9th edition where he played them for several events. Factions jumping is tough for those who don’t have a good grasp of the game so I understand misreading and misunderstanding rules, however when asked a question ON STREAM about one of his rules he read from his rulebook to his opponent specifically omitting a sentence mid paragraph that would have made the actions he was doing illegal in game. Omitting and misunderstanding rules only in your favor isn’t ignorance it’s cheating.

[@ArCSelkie37]

It’s this sorta shit then makes me not settle with just my opponent reading to me. I’m reading it myself or getting a judge if they refuse to let me read it directly. And I would do the same for them, they can read my entire codex if they want or show them the rule on the app.

[@bigangrywenis]

Yellow and Red cards were previously used by TO's. I went to the SoCal Open 2023 and the rules package then referred to the cards as the punitive system. Each of the 2 infractions would have qualified for yellow cards under that system.

[@tysonwollas235]

GW just needs to STOP printing Codex’s. If they still want to charge us fine just charge a smaller amount for a down loadable codex. Then when they change things the Codex is also updated.

[@chromehunter18]

I think there should be an end to "competitive 40k" and just be called tournament 40k. There is no real competition happening. You can't have competition if you don't have enough judges or judges who don't know the rules or want to enforce anything. You can't have "competitive " players constantly cheating and getting away with it. You can't have players not knowing the rules. Until there's a unified setting there will never be a true competitive 40k scene. The current state of the "competitive " scene is honestly a joke. You have opponents who either don't know the rules themselves or are too scared to say something and allow these players to constantly cheat. Or there are only two judges that can't get to the table etc. It's just a constant let down.

[@Ari91]

i really like your videos man, they give me warhammer immersion even tho in this case that doesnt make sense lol

[@Luzarioth]

I mean... here is the thing, GW sells Codexes that are wrong, includes Datasheets with the Minitures that are wrong and have different movement systems running at the same time. And now you tell me someone didn't catch another change they made ? Big suprise there.

[@金閃閃的忠誠怪]

sometime when some player just back to the game or using a ORIGINAL Codex and tell you about some OP rules, you really feel hard to explain that like "nonono, there a new FAQ come out and a lot rules change". GW 0/10

[@captaincorundum9788]

Not an excuse. If you're playing at a tournament it is up to you to know how your army works.

[@williambryant6175]

But here’s the thing, the change was Ghaz could now get into a transport (w/1 caveat) when he couldn’t before, THAT was the rule change. So, he was aware of the change, but just so happened to miss the caveat? And that also doesn’t explain getting the toughness on his character wrong. Whether or not they were that toughness last edition is inconsequential. If you’re at a top level tournament playing for a chance to go to the finals, you should know the basic stats of your models, or be willing to take 10 seconds to look them up.

[@Luzarioth]

@@captaincorundum9788 you are correct, but that doesn't change my point. GW makes it incredibly easy to miss some changes they did. They really need to find a way to fix that.

[@christracey5813]

I was at this event, but I was playing Blood Bowl. There are a lot less problems with that game.

[@Jcraft153]

At the very least, tournaments should be given a stock of all rulebooks so that every competitor can have a copy of their opponents army rules available if issues like this arise.

[@Centerpiece-Entertainment]

I absolutely agree with you guys. The rules of the game is very complicated there’s a lot going on this is why I feel the competitive part I can’t take too seriously because there’s so much information out there becomes convoluted. Agree with some of you the rules should be made available for free everyone can read and digest information as a long time player I can confirm that the rules change often.

[@brokenpixelpainting]

So how badly did this player mess up the tournament in general? Technically the whole thing is probably skewed. The people he beat could have played others and won and definitely changed the outcome.

[@JakkHorwikk]

There was a situation like this in MTG many years ago. It was ruled that this person's "sloppy" play was infact cheating simply because every documented instance of him slipping up or "forgetting" was always beneficial to himself and never his opponents. If your mistakes and sloppy play ALWAYS help you, it surly is intentional weather by reason or habit.

[@nofuxgivens2797]

Get a copy of the opponents list to reference. If they don't offer one, then pull out your list making app and put.his list in it. A huge part of top level competitive ability is knowing the rules and combos that other factions have. It's also why they like 'unit cards' at games so it's there for both to easily see as you're tossing dice or scheming on next moves

[@Vkandis72]

Cheating, like many other things is a skill. The best cheaters not only find ways to cheat, they do it in ways that give them plausible deniability. Did they cheat or did they just remember what they played from last edition? No one would intentionally read the rules incorrectly, especially on stream, they must be bad at reading--right? Good cheaters, hope to not get caught, but they have plans for when they get caught. It is about saving your reputation lest you get permanently banned from events. The goal of skilled cheaters is to keep playing--while they are trying to win events and after they get caught. They want you to see it "from their side," when their side is all about protecting their reputation so they can keep playing--which is what happened here.

[@zombie5544]

Sounds like this guy cheats a lot and try’s to push the rules a bit lol he should have been removed from the event

[@mogwaiman6048]

He has a history of it.

[@Grithertime]

Welcome to 40K.

[@jamesrobbins3381]

Thanks for the update and clear up. As far as I'm concerned, players who are good at the game are good because they know the rules and mechanics. Cheaters are able to successfully cheat because of their comprehensive knowledge of how the rules can be bent, misinterpreted, and casually broken providing the benefit of the doubt they need to still win despite breaking the rules. When I break the rules on accident, it's usually to my disadvantage because I'm not a very competent table topper. Oddly enough every mistake this dude made benefited him until he got caught, and also very odd that he played perfectly when a judge watched his every move. People going undefeated while cheating and then retroactively saying you were sloppy doesn't impress me. This behavior and half hearted apology are typical of cheaters in other games like MTG, these people would've kept doing their dirty deed until they got caught and we all know it.

[@pavarottiaardvark3431]

I once made an honest rules mistake during a FLGS Campaign. I was the one who noticed the mistake afterwards and immediately flagged it up and worked with the TO and other player to fix it and my opponent was STILL insultingly salty.

[@gaborboth3602]

Every edition they hark on and on about how they finally made it smooth and streamlined... a few months passes by and we're back to this shit, every time, rules so convoluted and scattered that someone can easily do this.

[@thebanditoking]

It shouldnt be the responsibility of a player to eject himself from a competition. The judges here needed to make a better call.

[@thetimebinder]

"Cheaters never win." So, that was a fucking lie.

[@coreymorse1347]

It's cheaters never prosper not never win. The idea back in the day was that if you cheated enough to really make it big you likely ended up robbed or dead instead.

[@valaquenta220]

The ork player made a reddit thread on r/competitive and tried to explain that he didn't cheat but that he simply "forgot a few things" xDDD.

[@captaincorundum9788]

He's such a loser

[@jcoe371]

Been waiting for your video on this before making any judgements as your journalist integrity (yes I do that that's what it is) always means you end up with good information and well informed takes.

[@Drivelinemgt]

I guess what I’m seeing is the tournament should provide index cards and a print out of the army being used, could be rolled into the admissions price, or from a local/global sponsor. I’ve also never played a game of warhammer. Lol but I’m here to learn.

[@Pedro1136]

Sorry bad at reading doesn’t cut it on top level play. That’s an excuse for garage games. I don’t play competitively but I thoroughly check by reading and rereading rules as well as discussing with other players to make sure things work the way I think they do. I don’t believe a top level player doesn’t know their rules properly.

[@blaze7570]

The whole problem with not outright banning these people is now you have to wonder if your opponent is trying to cheat in every tourney game

[@IVIaskerade]

There are multiple instances of his behaviour that we have video evidence of that take this well beyond the realm of "innocent mistakes". Not only does he never make a mistake that isn't in his favour (which is a red flag that it's cheating rather than just sloppy play), we have at least two instances _on camera_ of him being asked to double-check a rule by his opponent and, while reading directly from the codex, omitting information that would have stopped his 'mistake' from happening. He's a cheater, plain and simple.

[@piotrjeske4599]

Why is it assumed that it is an error and not because he is just cheating?

[@piedpiper1172]

If I learned I got one stat of one model wrong by one point, probably would apologize and play on with any judged penalty. Find out I fundamentally misplayed the core of my list in a shadow round with 5 undefeated lists but only 4 slots? Immediately drop out so all 4 of the other undefeated lists that didn’t misplay could advance. Waiting until he won and got called out more broadly is the issue. It’s some comfort to the Sisters player who was #2, but there is another player who played fair but didn’t even get to compete in the final because this flawed list took his spot.

[@Badbufon]

See, playing 40k is not that complex. I just have to ignore every restriction or edition, EZ

[@wikiwing348]

Good thing i don’t play in 40k tournaments

[@saron95662]

Mistakes happen and you can’t fault people for making them. And if the toughness thing is such a big issue where you have to ask your opponent what it is then they should just have a printed packet of the opponents army available for self evaluation.

[@willlondon4964]

Agreed, IMO print outs of your data sheets for your opponents should be standard practice.

[@amoryburgess]

Great coverage and reporting. Sadly he might have still won without the errors…but I’m ok with him not getting okra even more nerfed😅

[@davidea12]

None of this was a misplay, otherwise why didn’t he make the same mistake when a judge was watching? Just a cheating prick.

[@HB2K-h8m]

I don't play competitive 40k in part because i do faction hop (and also hop between systems) and as a result am fairly terrible at remembering rules. But also the idea of playing 8 games over a weekend makes my brain hurt. Fair play to anyone that can manage that mental load.

[@Knights_Oath]

This is why you don't change the fundamental rules of the game every three months. I can't even play a friendly game of 10th now. Because I took a 8 month break to finish up college and shit has changed so much. This hyper focus on tournament play is getting ridiculous and "professional" 40k players now have the stink of "professional" MTG players.

[@tilakai]

I think you are giving him to much credit.

[@nurglematthew893]

Nurgle Bless Our Constitution In The Kindest Of Ways, Chat!!!

[@Tylerjstratton]

Sounds like the dude just doesn’t have a good memory or reading skills. I certain don’t! I think T you make great points. Good video. Side note: the color changing light in your background is really distracting haha. I had to back up because I was thinking about it too much.

[@DCPTF2]

If only they had praised the holy chess clock more

[@HeraldOfBadger]

When I started fantasy my friend who i played with all the time incorrectly read High Elves (fantasy) as having S/T 4 instead of 3 and it went on for like a year, but he legit read it wrong and never checked. But also we were like 10 yo

[@Hurricanelive]

He 100% should have been DQ'd after the second yellow card. In fact, a lifetime ban for all prior cheating would be well advised, especially a gloating admitted cheater.

[@MidWanker-Minis]

Rules should be avilable to all Warhammer plus subscribers.

[@FrankSGuerra]

I can agree with most of this, but there is a very clear pattern with this particular offender. His mistakes ALWAYS favor him, and nearly everyone I know who has played against him complains about how absolutely miserable it is. I don't support any hate for the man (being mad about space dollies is even more pathetic than cheating at space dollies), but I think that he's earned some official consequences. Calling his pretty clear cheating, "sloppy play" is very disingenuous. I hope he learns his lesson, but I'm not sure if he will. I know his team dropped him unanimously from the California Cup, and I think that's a great move.

[@Trinine9]

Yeah things like this is a perfect example as to why GW should not balance their game off of tournaments

[@Terious743]

Theres a reddit post where the winner has given up the win and golden ticket to the sister player in 2nd.

[@danielhughes3758]

Ok, glad to hear it!

[@johnhildenbrand2642]

I'm glad to hear he has chosen the high road, there's always next year, and if he's capable of getting this far with a bit of muddled legality, another year of training ought to get him there above board

[@jayscott8583]

@@johnhildenbrand2642 dudes been around for a while this is cheating and if it didn't blow up he would've kept the win knowing full well he cheated to win

[@captaincorundum9788]

Good. He should stop playing.

[@jacket2848]

​@@johnhildenbrand2642he shouldn't be allowed to play next year, simple as that. He's fucking around with every bodies games, not just the people right at the top. The people he beat in games 1 and 2s entire course changed due to his actions.

[@zenosAnalytic]

Boo on Peterson, but also the idea of having competitions without refs is kind of ridiculous. If GW's going to be holding and sponsoring such large competitions, it really needs to provide/require enough judges to oversee all the matches. I realize the scale seems large, but UIL is doing similar sized events all the time, fully proctored, with no budget at all, so a half billion pound company really has no excuse. If they can't do that, then they need to create a tournament-only rule set that's simple and general enough for all players to have a good idea what is and is not illegal so they can know when to call a proctor over for a rules consult. In this situation, for instance, a rule against large character models(Thraka, Primarchs, Battlesuited Commanders, etc) using transports ought to be included in the transport rules, so everyone who has read them would know embarking Thraka was fishy.

[@willlondon4964]

Data sheet "mistakes" are extremely hard for me to believe. Especially with a veteran tournament player. When most tournament players i know play at least 10+ practice games with the list. If comments here are correct he lied directly to a judge on stream. That surely must warrant a ban of some kind.

[@Bladecharge]

There are other ways to learn your faction rules than paying for the codex, but gw should still make the rules free

[@stephen9to5]

Update!!!

[@alms07]

If only gw had an app they could put rules out on ....

[@davidea12]

Once a codex is out gotta pay to see the rules, I’m not spending £30 for an army I don’t play.

[@alms07]

@@davidea12 that's what I'm getting at. If they would just provide rules for a subscription or something, people wouldn't have to use wahapedia. I know I haven't used battle scribe all edition because the army builder they give is good enough.

[@petethehawk5186]

GW created a messy game with an insane amount of rules and minutiae that is constantly buffing and nerfing things. They care about getting you to spend a lot of money on minis, books and accessories and don’t seem to focus on making the game easier and more streamlined. The fact that this cat made it so far without anyone catching these “errors” kinda shows that at any given time there’s no way to know what is or isn’t right even by experienced tourney level players and judges.

[@alexgeary6706]

He did the right thing, WH40K is hard

[@Broken_But_Not_Broke]

New plan: every tournament year “pro” players are required to commit to and lock in a single faction for each tournament year. No more faction hopping, choose wisely. 😂