What Happened to Frank Miller? (Documentary)

[@thedefinitiveopinion]

Hey everyone! Thanks for the amazing support on the video so far! Just a reminder to like and subscribe to support our content and to also be notified of any new releases! We will hopefully be releasing another documentary about comic book history, so stay tuned for that!

[@kirbygamer393]

I have a what-if idea. What if the last ronin was another turtle.

[@75YBA]

SUBBED!

[@thedefinitiveopinion]

​@@75YBA Appreciate you 🥳

[@thedefinitiveopinion]

@@kirbygamer393 That would make for a really good video...

[@Acuace]

What is the follow up on Miller's The Dark Knight: The golden child?

[@sullivandmitry1416]

Love how some of the most influential comic writers to ever live becomes super jaded and borderline obsessed with shitting on comics.

[@gerry30]

It might have something to do with a Messianic complex or flat out narcissism. They did not want to have a 9 to 5 job at the factory or the office and simply live a simple life with the routine, the lawn, family dinner. So they embark on the exciting career of superhero stories and they basically get all the success they hoped for. And then they think, "I just wasted my life on comic books when I should have been solving military conflicts around the world and ilmparting vast wisdom so people live in peace and harmony." The idea that they provided entertainment for the masses becomes insufficient for them. It's like the actors that wanted to conquer the world with their Shakespeare and found themselves as no higher than George Reeves as Superman or Shatner as Kirk or Tina Louise as Ginger from Gilligan's Island. Forget the fact that they still make and entertain millions of people. They don't see it or appreciate it. It's pitiable really.

[@lordofthegremlins]

​@@gerry30the only thing pitiable is the comic book nerds who read this superhero trash/tripe whose future (or present) is that of a superhero comics obsessed 35 y/o who never even saw a naked girl in their life, reading comic books and playing Magic: The Gathering in their parents basement. 😅

[@ezanella]

His new work is actually pretty good. Bold, striking and very much the evolution of comic art. Very free and with a uniqueness that will be appreciated in his passing.

[@gray6079]

To me the books that miller wrote are good and enjoyable because they actually have some critiques and societal commentary woven into their plot that justify the edginess, like DKR, Elektra assassin, sin city or daredevil. That bad work is the work where he’s simply sticking to that methodology without any real rhetorical purpose behind it and just being edgy for the sake of it as a style like Batman and robin all-star

[@theotang681]

the frank miller run on dare devil was freaking amazing!

[@gerry30]

Neal Adams was an artist. Not really a writer. Co-plotter or co-creator but I don't think he ever was considered a "writer" until very late in his career and even at that, very rarely.

[@quesoblanco444]

Thanks for pointing that out. One of several things in this video that seem a bit off.

[@johnkoutsoupakis]

i remember reading this collected series/original graphic novel? ....i cant remember .....by n.adams (it was the early aughts i think) where the plot was so bad it was absolutely unreadable. my brain was torn. it was absolutely beautiful but simultaneously a steaming pile of shit all at once.

[@mattblah7737]

Yeah, crazy they'd call him WRITER How young are these guys? Loll

[@67coda]

I will takes Miller’s stories and writings over the current crop of garbage any day!

[@js_galeria]

Then you need to read more comics. Hey. I am reading comics since 1980. I am not a milennial. And I can tell you boom studios is making some of the best comics out there. Power rangers is a masterpiece. And their crossovers are gold. Specially the ones with godzilla. Trust me on this one. There are much better things than frank Miller. 😊

[@nekowatt5945]

Yeah times have changed. The comic book industry isn't the same as it used to be. Nowadays, a lot of top talent are dispersed around the place and some even just opt to make their own titles. One of my favorite examples would be Daniel Warren Johnson. He's relatively new but quickly made his mark drawing and writing different comics for others and for himself. He even was brought on to write a black label Wonder Woman comic and now he's the one handling the current Transformers run at Skybound.

[@nhlfan1001]

There are a LOT of great writers today across both American and Japanese comics many of which I'd personally put over Miller

[@miguelthedrawtist]

Alls I know is Frank Miller looks way too old for 67. I don't think I've seen anyone else age this badly. Like, bro looks older than Jim Shooter who's 72

[@PanchaMaestro]

Alcohol is a heavy burden to bear

[@Jamesharveycomics]

Alcohol and other drugs

[@charleslennonbaker]

Alcohol and bigotry will do that.

[@DAGDRUM53]

Yeah, but Jim Shooter has always looked like he'd been quail-hunting with Dick Cheney.

[@machbass]

The older Miller got, the more out of touch he became with the zeitgeist and the more his messaging seemed out of touch. It didn't help that he tried using the titles that launched him into celebrity status to aggrandize his newer works, only mucked the water of his original messaging. That's at least how I view it. His early works were subversive and innovative, only a few decades later, that innovation became cliche' in and of itself. Something he couldn't escape, as we all won't, because he aged out of understanding. His innovation became the status quo. And it's almost impossible to change the game twice with the same approach. That's at least what I always understood happened, but this video gave me some needed context. Always looking for new channels that discuss the philosophy and history of comic books. Glad to have stumbled onto this channel.

[@Jerry_Gallo]

nah, people today are just crazy, i'm not old at all but i can see how the average people are way more immature than a couple of decades ago. ten years ago people'd have laughted at the description of the world of today.

[@machbass]

@jerrygallo8314 everyone feels that way about the generation they're in and grew up in. It'll take perspective and time to truly see things from all sides and to form a nuanced opinion. Ebbs and flows

[@petermj1098]

@@machbass Nah 9/11 screwed up his mind and his art and writing got screwed up. His comics after 9/11 is just him projecting his emotional frustrations rather than telling coherent and entertaining stories.

[@machbass]

@petermj1098 9/11 screwed up everyone. Yet people with similar political leanings didn't go the route he did. If he hadn't had the level of fame he had at the time, he wouldn't have been encouraged to speak without a filter, because he is who he is. Using a tragedy that affected everyone doesn't dissuade anything I said and both things can be part of the greater conversation. What is with you kids and starting rebuttals with, Nah? Lmao.

[@petermj1098]

@@machbass Frank literally was in Hells Kitchen the day of 9/11 and him seeing seeing the panic and towers in the city that day must have really disturbed him. And Frank was literally was making the Dark Knight Strikes Again during that time. Frank already had increasing pessimism in how the government handled things and after that day made his pessimism even more worse and jaded.

[@Attivian]

Frank Miller slowly turned into Freddy Krueger without us really noticing.

[@enthomorf]

The problem of Frank Miller is the same as with Zack Snyder: Both feel a great necessity to corrupt Super heroes. And distorce their hero essence.

[@CristianZanin2002]

Bullshit

[@enthomorf]

@@CristianZanin2002 Its true. Superman never is not a EUA puppet, as Frank Miller wanted him to be. Batman is not a mass murderer as Zack Snyder want him to be.

[@CristianZanin2002]

enthomorf LIES AND BULLSHIT

[@CristianZanin2002]

Enthomorf......false false false, all lies

[@davidknight2423]

I know it isn't possible to cover everything Miller has done but I think his six-issue Ronin series could have done with exploration. Particularly when talking about Miller's desire to create some hybrid between American and Japanese comics.

[@Jamesharveycomics]

Ronin is astonishing

[@mahmudmurad4655]

Even the lesser Miller is way better than any of the writers in comics today. Miller always gives you something raw and powerful and interesting. Sometimes his execution is not the best, but still is head and shoulders over contemporary works. Miller and Moore were the kings of the bronze age and they started the modern era with TDKR and Watchmen. Now, where is the new groundbreaking comic that makes a new trend and pushes the entire industry? Nowhere. Where are the new classics, the new masterpieces to admire this generation? Anywhere. And where is the love and passion for the medium? Gone, together with the collectors of a lifetime and most of the readers.

[@RJJohnston]

one thing….wasn’t Neal Adams best known as a comics artist?!? i mean i know he did some writing, but the art was his main gig. met him once.

[@cooldustin82]

Neal Adams was a legend. I saw him at 2 local comic book conventions in New Orleans and got some signed prints. I expected to see him again before he unexpectedly died of pneumonia. Adams' art style inspired a lot of later artists including Jim Lee. Frank Miller has done a lot of my favorite comics like Dark Knight Returns and the Sin City comics. I had one Sin City comic book where Marv searches and rescues a kidnapped girl in the backdrop of a snowing Christmas Eve. Miller did the art with white ink on black paper and the story had no words at all. I was shocked when Miller put out Holy Terror and by the wacky stuff in All-Star Batman and Robin. I didn't read either of them, just read about it online in message boards. I'm glad Miller has since admitted regret for that crazy stuff.

[@gerry30]

I remember Miller's peak being Daredevil in reality. It was basically an old movie "noir" tone that Miller tapped into. Everything he produced after that was to be honest, a gradual step down. It just lasted so long because he did such good work in the early part of his career. The Dark Knight owes actually more to the success of Moon Knight done by Doug Moench and Bill Sienkewicz from Marvel starting in the late 70s. People were writing in the fans letters pages "...this is what Batman should be..." a combination of compliments and laments that Moon Knight wasn't Batman. Nobody was excited about Batman at that time. Adam West was still effecting the impression people got from the character. So, the excitement around the Dark Knight's success was basically the guy who wrote and revived Daredevil filling the already fervent desire to revitalize Batman. Byrne's move to DC and revamping of Superman with the "Man of Steel" mini-series was just as big a deal at the time, if not bigger. The artwork in the Dark Knight was praised by few but really just tolerated by most because the story was so interesting. Some thought at the time it detracted from the story it was so distracting. Nobody was running around trying to imitate Frank MIller's Dark Knight art like they were his work on Daredevil or the art of John Byrne or George Perez. Right after Dark Knight was Ronin which was underwhelming and forgotten the moment it was done. 300 and Sin City were years away and they didn't make the mark of Daredevil or Dark Knight. By the late 80s Miller was dabbling in movies and getting heavily criticized for the Robocop 2 script which did not do as well as the first movie. (It wasn't awful, but it was no great revelation either) 300 and Sin City were basically what worked visually in Daredevil and Dark Knight applied to new stories. The movies were the first time the tropes that worked in the comics were brought to the screen. Simultaneously, Alan Moore was approaching the top of his game right on the heels of Miller and there was a massive exit from Marvel to DC of much of the brightest talent.

[@TheChadTI]

This is an excellent, accurate retelling of history concerning Frank Miller. (hardcore, lifelong comic fan, 53 yrs old🤙)

[@wambokodavid7109]

I remember Alan Moore dissing his 300 calling it edge lord crap with no substance 😤😂

[@johnkoutsoupakis]

interesting take.

[@Pyrogully]

So Daredevil being my favorite superhero because of Millers darker storytelling with the character adding to his background adding the catholic guilt his relationship with Stick being trained to fight in a mysterious war I always took a liking to that type of storyline. Even when it comes to other mediums like anime or manga like Beserk or Fist of the North Star I always had an appreciation for his style of writing. It always seemed more grounded.

[@damianmonke3922]

Frank miller is not racist

[@benc77]

Bro is the family guy 911 meme but Unironically

[@thisismyname3928]

❓

[@thedudewithasanspfp]

​@@thisismyname3928It's Lois Griffin saying 9/11. At least that's why I think what Ben is referring to.

[@thisismyname3928]

@@thedudewithasanspfp ▪▪▪

[@George_17-28]

I’m getting tired of hear that he’s racist or xenophobic, he wrote Holy Terror as message of rage and hate against the tragic events of 11/9, everyone was pissed about those events, I know it wasn’t the right way to express how he felt but people it’s just hypocrite because of how they judge Miller, Miller was one of a kind, one of the brightest minds of the seventies and eighties, his work will endure forever

[@alicemadness999]

you can make good art and still be a shit person

[@mr.moostache2019]

I loved Holy Terror and its over the top characters. I felt just as angry as him about 9/11 and too bad if people were offended. What was done to the country was beyond offense...

[@mikaelamonsterland]

9/11 made a huge amount of people become more openly racist blaming the tragedy on every single brown skinned person and this cultural acceptance of racism led to a huge amount of racist media in the years following that until after 2 terms of the war criminal George W Bush made everyone started realizing how horrible things were becoming because of the mass xenophobia and racism in those years

[@tiglishnobody8750]

Only problem is he just can't tell different between Muslim and Terrorist so he just treating entire of Islam as enemy which is why he regret of this when he said that

[@George_17-28]

@@tiglishnobody8750 it’s just a comic book not a civil rights declaration, there’s a lot of people with more influence than Frank Miller on the media that said worse things about muslims than a comic book but you can’t see any retaliation for them, but Miller after a long time it’s still hated for Holy terror, Tough bubble festival in UK was the perfect example, they uninvited Miller because a muslim female writer said that Miller hates muslims, and he’s still getting backlash because of holy terror after more than ten years

[@ErikWinbo]

This is just my opinion: To make a "Frank Millers Fall From Grace" video and only focusing on Batman (edit: fine, there was a tiny bit about Sin City, but very much just glossed over) is lazy at best, dishonest at worst when he has so many other intense and defining works to choose from. Does he have shit-views? Perhaps, and perhaps not. When the author Stephen Donaldson wrote The Gap Series (a truly horrific and disturbing opening novel!), was his main character's views aligned with his own? I would like to think not. But he pushed the boundaries for what was conventionally acceptable. For me (again my opinion), that is what a lot of artists do. To wreck havoc on conventions and to take their chosen art to a "next place". Also, many writers and artists do become... how should I put it... wierder as they get older. Just look at the painters...

[@floydharper1216]

"does he have shit views? Perhaps, and perhaps not...." Please tell me you can't still say "perhaps not" if you're aware of holy terror, if so then that calls YOU into question and makes it seem that "perhaps" YOU have shit views yourself. Xenophobia and painting entire swaths of humanity as an evil is a shit view, no matter how you dress it up.

[@Abraxas9100]

Adams wasn't a writer. Except an awful one. He was famous and known for his ART.

[@michaelpeacock4228]

I challenge anyone that does not like Miller's writing, to see if they can find ANY defense for Adams' writing in Batman:Odyssey. Seriously, that was a garbage book, through and through.

[@darrelavery9809]

I liked his work until he decided that since he didn't understand Superman, he would make him a villain. This is why that character is treated so terribly now, one guy just had to ruin Supes. Forget Frank Miller.

[@chrchaves]

Didn't Miller backtracked on what he said after 9/11 a while ago? I don't agree with his comments from those years nor in his political beliefs but I absolutely adore that he put in the spotlight the fact that comics are a way of propaganda still today, and honestly enjoyed Holy Terror bc of that cleverness. Btw, that clip of him basically portraying the Arab world as uncivilized is just imbecile when you think they basically saved Europe from the middle ages. Historically the anglosaxons could be considered more "barbaric" that the arabs

[@wambokodavid7109]

Shhhh🤫...u gonna open a can of worms esp with that last sentence.they are coming for u

[@luckygnome]

I met him at fanexpo last year and it's obvious he's suffering from a medical condition that makes him look the way he does. This guy good or bad is the goat.

[@paulieboy6644]

I'm glad we as a society are getting over Frank Miller's depiction of Superman!

[@thedefinitiveopinion]

Yeah, I think it set us back for a while with how Superman has been adapted in the past couple of years. But with some of the more recent adaptations and stories we are getting from Superman, we have a lot of hope for what is to come!

[@josephhajszani7441]

Frank Miller is awesome. I don’t give a shit what anyone says.

[@krisowrey7260]

Miller is still a legend. He just evolved onto his own branch away from mainstream comics and made his own art.

[@DavidGonzalez-tv2lf]

13:25 I can't find ironic enough the fact that an ad from a bollywood's superhero movie did appear on this ecact frame

[@keng.2468]

I'm sorry, Frank Miller will never be irrelevant as an artist. He will leave behind a legacy no matter how controversial you find his writing.

[@theundercovergeek5406]

I don't think it's Racist to ridicule a religion...all ideas should be open to ridicule...I understand why people are so frightened of doing it for Islam because there are literally instances of people being killed for it....Holy Terror is a bad book...but definitely not racist....no religious community can claim to be a race.... Miller lost his mojo in recent times...there were moments of the old Miller in DKMR but sadly, not many....

[@VaderTheWhite]

1)"No religious community can be considered a race." Jews are and we've seen what horrors antisemitism has inflicted. 2) Racism and Islamophobia are deeply tied together. I mean, there are bigots who still think Obama is secretly a Muslim. And you know an Islamophobe would treat some Middle Eastern guy named Mohammed like shit regardless of his actual religious beliefs.

[@nightshadeii9248]

Semantics. The way in which FM depicts middle-easterners, as a _people_ , is _racist_ . His “critique” of Islam as a _religion_ is _bigoted_ . Both terms fall under the same umbrella of hate.

[@WhatDoesEvilMean]

This is literally just a product of absurd wokeness. Despising the ideology of Islam is not “xenophobic”. 😂😂

[@anxiousweeb8753]

Bro go take a shower, I can smell the stench from your comment

[@leahbryce9995]

Hollywood and ego got him😢😢😢

[@WallKenshiro]

We do know that Frank's writing and art has severely degraded in the last 20+ years, all you have to do is actually read enough of it to realize that. Asking if his sensibilities and ethics have changed isn't the same question as asking if his skills have.

[@jamesmerritt3961]

honestly, I think I understand why you chose to include sound effects throughout nearly every second of this video but it is too much. I was interested in the subject but couldn't get past 4 minutes the swipes, zooms and transitions are sometimes so many that the sound effects overwhelm your content.

[@raulguadalupe3489]

I eagerly picked up the sequel series to The Dark Knight. But it was all over the place! And the artwork? ???

[@jacktaipen2077]

I liked the All Star Batman comic

[@thedefinitiveopinion]

Yeah, we definitely have to agree with you as well - the ASB comic has a lot of enjoyable parts to it but I think overall in terms of his career, I don't think it was what people wanted from him or expected from him which kind of goes to show how demanding the industry can be alongside how a lot of creative freedom can be squandered and really put on the back burner for writers! Thanks for commenting and we hope you enjoyed the video! Be sure to subscribe, we will be posting more this summer, so stay tuned for more videos!

[@azuresaiyan9005]

There’s very few of you.

[@justinsmithy2286]

All Star GODDAMN BATMAN

[@Chud_Bud]

I liked the art of All-Star Batman, but the story was a big miss for me.

[@ORIGINALFBI]

You like Pedo Batman?

[@CretienOsmondHughes]

This video is full of inaccuracies and glaring omissions. Neal Adams for instance is famously an artist rather than writer. Daredevil was Miller's first writing job not Weird War Tales where Miller was the artist not writer. The video editing is pretty good pity the script wasn't as well researched. This is a better analysis of what may have derailed an undoubtedly talented career kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6nSgX-Egt95gtU

[@leespiderpod]

Frank is an artist and he’s moved forward with that so stop shitting on him

[@k.nguyen7895]

damn I guess he's a shitty artist then

[@billlewis8765]

Listen I know I probably stand with very few but I absolutely loved All-Star Batman and Robin! With Jim Lee artwork it was just fabulous! So what if it didn’t go along with your view of Batman. I wasn’t aware The Dark knight Returns fit the mold for typical Batman. Having said that I really wish we would have gotten the final issue planned.

[@AceLM92]

Frank Miller is the person that made me a fan of the comics medium and see what strengths it has in of itself, and I have to admit that he has been churning out some subpar work compared to everything up to 300. However I will go as far to say having read Holy Terror that while it is a very bad comic, calling it racist and xenophobic is stretching it. It's definitely a printed post 9/11 revenge fantasy against Al-Qaeda. The guy wanted to satirize an extremist group in the worst way possible, and it was not well received. Yet the response makes me question the mindset of the critics of it when they see a caricature of a terrorist and they immediately think Muslim or Arab. That kind of speaks more of what they think of when they hear the word "terrorist" than what Frank thinks, in my snarky opinion.

[@thedefinitiveopinion]

Appreciate the comment tons and especially how much thought was put into it! Thanks for watching and commenting :) I get what you’re saying with holy terror - there is a complete difference between criticizing a group of people that associate with a religion and criticizing a religion. However, some of the parts of holy terror are just a bit uncomfortable to read. For example, the following segment: "So Mohammed," the Fixer says, "Pardon me for guessing your name, but you've got to admit the odds are pretty good that it's Mohammed." Not saying this is concrete racism or xenophobia, but it is just a very risky topic to put in a comic book if you’d like to remain in the mainstream, which I think is inarguable. When you try to skirt the line of edginess, you will inevitably run the risk of putting a large majority of people off your work. Miller did go over the line into criticizing the religion rather than the groups at times, which could be considered “fine” (freedom of speech), but you DO have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of those actions, at least in my opinion. I do agree with your points though, and I appreciate the nuance in your comment! Thanks again for watching and commenting; I really enjoyed reading!

[@maynardwayward12]

I remember 2001. There was tons of racism directed at brown people in general. You have to be deluded to think Miller was talking about anyone else.

[@AceLM92]

@@maynardwayward12 I didn't say he was talking about anyone else. And Holy Terror came out roughly a decade after 9/11.

[@maynardwayward12]

@@AceLM92 i mean, are you trying to say it's a racist comic or not? because the whole issue with racism was that Muslims and brown people were conflated with Al Qaeda

[@apocalypseforever8434]

He was also witnessed 9/11 in person when he was in New York. So he was quite shaken up by it

[@robertfuller2196]

Frank stayed consistent. The generations that followed became soft, politically correct, incapable of accepting flaws in their heros...

[@anxiousweeb8753]

then why does All Star Batman & Robin still suck ass lmao

[@Yungman1a]

This is literally the dumbest take ever 💀

[@satansjihad6353]

Perfectly put.

[@elunicocalvo]

Comic book people on the left used to oppose right wing politics by making better, groundbreaking comics. Now they make essays for character assassination and play victim when they don't get their way. Creating interest, humor, structure, persuasion by the comic itself, none of that matters as long as the comic is preaching to the choir. During the 80s, many talented creators leaning to the left felt threatened by the prevalent politics of that era, but they still incorporated whatever message they wanted to say in a more concealed, intelligent manner. The problem now is that many of the creators criticizing others like Miller have become so complacent, decadent in their craft that it will be very difficult for them to use the same method for adapting to a change in the landscape.

[@petermj1098]

Miller was projecting his emotions after 9/11. His art and writing has no logic but just him projecting his emotional frustrations rather than entertaining people like he used to.

[@Bb186fo]

Totally spot on! Aside from a few examples which were the exceptions not the rule, they wove political undertones into things very smoothly and subtlety. Today they beat you over the head with it and if you DARE have a single complaint about the lack of cohesive story or charachter development, they have a "YOURE ONLY SAYING THAT CAUSE YOURE AN IST/ISM/PHOBIC BIGOT!!" defense mechanism line waiting for you. Which I find EXTREMELY disengenious and does a HUGE disservice to people actually experiencing REAL hatred. The truth is many of these new "creators" don't seem to have a deep love for comics, but see it as a culturally relevant and extremely popular vehicle in which to deliver thier political views. They use these charachters/stories/companies as soap boxes in which to shout thier views. Things like charachter development and cohesive, interesting story telling are MUCH less important to them. I'd even say many times it feels they have resentments and strong disliked of many comic fans. They just have this condescending, disengenious, pretentious, smug, self righteous way of speaking/doing things. Like watching Kelly Sue Deconnick say "IF YOU DONT LIKE MY POLITICS, THEN DONT BUY MY BOOKS!!". Well.... OK I won't 😂

[@erictoro6519]

Frank Miller has a very unique way of drawing people very cool he was a great artist and writer . But misunderstood . But comics were never meant for children it hide itself in super heroes for children to spread propaganda .

[@kerry-j4m]

I never liked Miller's art-work,especially the way he drew women's faces,they looked like men.The inker on DD often redrew his female faces and the older he got the worse his art-work became.Look at total wreck of art he produced for the Dark Knight Strikes Again. Good documentary on Miller tho.

[@ZamboniZone]

Dc actually made him rewrite and redraw part three of Dark knight strikes again it was so awful

[@kerry-j4m]

@@ZamboniZone And the art still sucked to me. LOL. Even after the redraw.

[@ZamboniZone]

@@kerry-j4m agreed. If I had an artist draw my comic like that, I'd fire him

[@kerry-j4m]

@@ZamboniZone AGREED.Not Miller's best work for sure.

[@ZamboniZone]

@user-be7tc2bd6e honestly I didn't like his art in Dark Knight Returns either

[@75YBA]

Sin City movies and books became read-along’s. Who wants a movie that is so comic-accurate that you know all the lines, all the plot twists and endings? His books are for slow people.

[@dukeofdepressed3980]

If you ever read/watch a review of Holy Terror, it makes me wonder if 9/11 was really what flipped Frank’s mind.

[@louisduarte8763]

13:03 Hey, that's Chicago, not New York!

[@thedefinitiveopinion]

Fairly sure that’s the Freedom Tower in New York as we did use New York City stock footage!

[@MWhaleK]

Miller also comes off as pretty misogynistic and kind of shallow in his writing. He has gotten worse, maybe it is just that he became more unfiltered and more willing to share his true opinions. But that to is change.

[@redrasegarden]

His work went downhill before ASBAR. It just his works like Superman year one (or at least it’s later half) or the dark knight strikes again seem to fall threw the cracks when compared to ASBAR and holy terror

[@geoffchurchill5492]

what he doesn't understand is heroism

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

all went downhill once he made superman bone wonder woman

[@hisalexness8478]

Neal Adams was an ARTIST.

[@nightshadeii9248]

…Neal Adams was also a writer.

[@hisalexness8478]

@@nightshadeii9248 true, but it’s misleading to call him a writer - I’d called him an artist principally, or artist/writer.

[@nightshadeii9248]

@@hisalexness8478 This is true.

[@Tonydash23]

“Modern day sensibilities “ ?? What a joke , they’ll never be another creator like FM in comics ever again

[@zinncomicsandart8811]

when you are old no one will even know who you are , let alone bother to slander you in a video .

[@thedefinitiveopinion]

We’ll see about that. 😂

[@sqbronco1]

why are you talking so fast?

[@savage75_]

Shitting on Frank Miller is a fools errand. Nice try 👎

[@rickytoddbotelho9555]

Frank is the late 70's the 80's and the 90's. Remember ' sin city' ' 300' I think if he wants he can ride the wave. The world's a worse disaster than batman, superman and the super friendies can handle. I'm a xenophobia too😂❤

[@louisduarte8763]

15:55 By Grant Morrison, a far superior writer of Batman and comic books in general. Oh, Holy Terror. TDKR with the serial numbers filed off. Ugly visuals and uglier ideas.

[@SuperFaxx]

In the first 7 seconds you say Miller was "extremely popular in the '70s and '80s", and that he was the "King of the Bronze Age". Miller didn't even begin his Daredevil run until 1979 and didn't get popular (to say nothing of "extremely popular) until years later. The Bronze Age ended in 1983, but Miller's Batman work didn't start until 1986, so I'm not seeing how he was the "king" of the previous age. With very basic errors like this in the very opening of the video, it's hard to justify watching the rest of it. Miller is a complicated figure who has sure put out controversial and offensive material, especially in recent decades. However, I have absolutely no faith in your ability to parse and explain what Miller IS or ISN'T if you can't even get basic dates and ages of comics correct.

[@thedefinitiveopinion]

Hi! Firstly, these "comic book eras" have very blurred lines and are more so categorized by the types of comics that were releasing at the time. The bronze age didn't "end" in '83; you will find differing opinions anywhere you look. Miller, while not actively at the forefront during the bronze age, was debatably the leading writer when transitioning OUT of the bronze age. He's usually considered the one (along with Moore) that transitioned comics out of the bronze age, particularly with his batman comics (TDKR). These happened right at the tail of the bronze age, therefore debatably placing him in the bronze age, as he is the one who transitioned comics OUT of it. However, I'd agree that he obviously wasn't the "reigning king" of that whole time period. It was just a hook that wasn't meant to be so read into. These terms for the ages aren't nearly as important as actually discussing the styles themselves; the exact years don't really mean much in my opinion. Regardless, I don't think this is a detail worthy of degrading the whole video, as the video wasn't really about "ages of comics", but rather Miller's style and how it couldn't keep up with the comics landscape. Also, no one has the ability to explain what Miller is or isn't, only the ability to say what they THINK he is or isn't.

[@js_galeria]

Frank miller and alan moore. The two most overhyped and overpraised comic writers ever. Thir works were great. But noth are one trick ponies. There are way better and more versatile writers and artists out there. All it takes is to stop thinking dc and marvel are the only ones making comics today. Boom studios power rangers is a perfect comic There are amazing comics out there. We just need to broaden our perspectives and stop praising these fossiles. And hey. Ive been reading comics since 1980. I was there when these guys did their best works. I can tell that their time came and went years ago.

[@cha5]

Sorry but I'll take From Hell, a large chunk of TLOEG, and Providence over Power Rangers.

[@mr.moostache2019]

Loved Holy Terror and All Star Batman for their over the top storyline. Did it offend people? Boo hoo 😢 so does taking all of those lives mercilessly...

[@briandavid7849]

All star Bateman was cringe.

[@JasonBernier-b5r]

I hate it when people say things like drugs and Alcohol made them say racist things......poor excuse and it's simply not true it's like saying money suddenly made you a rude person that's impossible you were always a rude spiteful person..........by the way stating the obvious racists can tell lies!

[@apocalypseforever8434]

He still did more than you ever will

[@JasonBernier-b5r]

@apocalypseforever8434 yeah more negative hate goodnight!

[@game-OJACK]

his racism was always there... I mean, "subhuman" mutants that are super strong, ultra violent, and can't be reasoned with? 🤔

[@SeanReyesGirdle.]

Who could he be referring to? "oooh, that's so racist!" 🙄

[@game-OJACK]

Who the fk are you quoting @@SeanReyesGirdle.?

[@DAGDRUM53]

Would like some cheese with your whine?

[@WadeNslade]

The woke crowd lol

[@ericraymondlim]

If OK boomer was a person.

[@accidentalmadness1708]

Ugh

[@thisismyname3928]

[@SeanReyesGirdle.]

OK 'tard.

[@KyrieKirigiri]

Miller never really had a 'fall from grace', even from the start he was a horrible writer and artist. His Daredevil comics pretty much completely ruined the character permanently, turning the comic into misogynistic, edgy torture porn. DKR is a ridiculous comic where Batman says 'no guns' whilst simultaneously shooting a goon in the shoulder with a gun - and the comic permanently scarred Batman, turning the character into a violent, grim dark shithead instead of an actual hero. Miller basically just appealed to the vile wishes of the comic reading masses in the 70s and 80s - their lust for sex and violence, and it pretty much ended up killing the two big US publishers (creatively) as a result. Now Spider-Man is getting cuckolded and everyone hates him, the X-Men are getting genocided every week and 20 gazillion evil Superman clones have popped up in low-rate 'indie' shite. A lot like Chris Claremont, whilst he is incredibly and undeniably influencial, I think is comics ultimately caused more harm than good in the long run, as it permanently damaged so many characters. People talk about 'auteur' this and 'auteur' that, but maybe if the publishers actually stepped in and told people like Claremont and Miller to reel their shit in for gods sake, then maybe modern DC and Marvel wouldn't be in the state it would be in. They have good ideas but most of the time execute them badly and have to rely on other writers to pick up the pieces - for example Catwoman in Year One having the horrible stench of her DKR version still hovering around her, and having to have Mindy Newell and Jo Duffy pick up the pieces and turn it into something actually good.

[@Gray_Box]

Cool. Could have just said your taste was shit. Would have saved my time.

[@Chud_Bud]

It's not Claremont and Miller's fault that the industry is in the trash. It's the fault of the terrible editors and writers of today, who would prefer to be activists and social engineers rather than story-tellers.

[@Jerry_Gallo]

nah, you weren't even alive att.

[@hadriancaesar2686]

Miller ruined Daredevil? Have you read his Daredevil?

[@apocalypseforever8434]

Yeah of course the Life is Strange avi is saying this shit lmfao

[@TheBestComicKing]

My problem with Frank Miller isn’t Frankie himself. My problem are his FANBOYS.

[@cartwrightworm1317]

I must be odd because I never liked TDKR. It’s a dull story with ugly art. I’m more a Hush fan. For a dark superhero story, I prefer Kraven’s Last Hunt.

[@geinikan1kan]

Actually the All Star stuff came after 9:11 too? So we really can’t blame 9:11 for Holy Terror. & Sin City is an awful strip. It’s misogynist and old school he man shit. I hated reading that crap.

[@JasonBernier-b5r]

If you make a rude generalisation or a stereotype yes your a racist sadly as a Caucasian your an exception to the rule I spoke to him in 2012. And yes you can see some blatant stereotypes for black people in Daredevil and Batman but Caucasians will hide behind terms like Fascism and woke or try to laugh in denial it's insulting thanks for being honest whoever you are!

[@gerry30]

"If you make a rude generalisation or a stereotype yes your a racist ..." "....but Caucasians will hide behind terms like...."

[@erictoro6519]

You don't even know the true definition of fascism . The Media hates masculinity and white people . Frank Miller was just being politically incorrect with his work and not being cuck white traitor to his own people and just making realistic stories. But in this era only woke stories are good for marxist brain washed in modern times.