What Happened to Miraculous Ladybug (ft. @isabella_portia)

[@NegativeLegend]

✦Grab Your Acrylic Pin and Stickers Here: forms.gle/cKivbDDS7Xs9uYxc9

[@johanandersson8252]

You’re a Fungi, Negative Legend.

[@anaphchan6783]

Why does this comment say it was put 3 days ago🤣?

[@ashtonkamien8542]

Hi Negative Legend they make a TV movie of the show your talk about this show used to be on Nickelodeon some reason they put on Netflix they put the show on TV again call kids six they finally put on Disney Channel and you can watch on Disney Plus I did not knew this show wasn't Korean show people told me it was a French show few years ago I heard they posed to make a white Mansion movie did you read my letter I sent you for fan mail please show casing on your Channel I hope you have an awesome day and happy Halloween

[@princesspinkheart5389]

34:52 Are You People Dating

[@Spirit_Imagination]

If you wanna see Character Development with them more (sort of) watch the New York Special (mlb movie) There is another move you could watch of mlb that is made but I both liked it but didn't because it felt just like another episode but longer and more of just stuff. Again though, New York Special though was just awesome. Fun fact!: for my own fun I'm re-writing the whole mlb series just to make it better or what seems alright plus I want to change a bit of the characters. Also with Season 4 starting and Chloe oh I'm sorry I mean Zoe coming into play I feel things are just happening.

[@0lleander]

“The only thing worse than a bad show is a bad show with potential”

[@red0421]

But the fanfiction gives you hope that some day it could be good again. Then the show brutally murders that hope. And the cycle repeats.

[@thegrandadmiral471]

@@red0421 Never watched a Miraculous episode in my life but for some reason I finished an entire fanfiction where Hawkmoth is actually a good guy and misunderstood

[@Karak-_-]

As an ex-fan of RWBY, this hurts.

[@ronaldvexdian2182]

*RWBY begins to sweat*

[@ebkittydiyer6328]

It’s like you still keep this hope inside you that it will become better as you love the story aspects but again and again does that hope and dream get crushed the more and more you watch the show but you just can’t seem to stop, wanting to know what happens but hurting because of the writing

[@Mo10tov]

When you realize they both would actually make decent miraculous ladybug cosplayers

[@guardianofpeace6393]

Oh sh*t you’re right.

[@serenamalin9885]

So true !!

[@Ryuuko-chan]

Edited message: alright alright, since you can't understand what I said in the easiest way I wrote it, I take back what I said, happy? 🙄 Mizzeca non se po di niente a questi pe di che ce vedi bene 2 persone per un cosplay, non letteralmente a coppietta😑

[@dahyunsrealwifey]

@@Ryuuko-chan uh

[@cellinemartins]

@@Ryuuko-chan 🤨📸

[@morepizza605]

"you're fans of mlb?" fans: yes! "you like the show though?" fans: no.

[@carolinpurayidom4570]

It's the concept

[@suli__.]

true words have never been spoken

[@chickofmusic001]

Nobody hates ml more than ml fans 😅

[@itz_Miraculously_Vedika]

WHY CAN I RELATE SO MUCH TO THISSSSS

[@sickening_love1154]

@@carolinpurayidom4570 and I hate that I love the show for only its concept.

[@Sibunamember101]

Chloe's redemption arc could've been so good if Thomas wasn't so petty and thought a psychologically abused fourteen year old girl was beyond forgiving.

[@haruuhaki]

and yet the show tries *so* hard to paint Gabriel in a sympathetic light. Like sure, the guy who neglects his son, practically terrorizes Paris and even uses little kids (like Alya's sisters) for his schemes and goes against _his own son_ in a separate timeline (Chat Blanc) is justified because "he's grieving~" But when a 14 year old girl who gets neglected by her own mother, is spoiled rotten by a dad who doesnt even _try_ to confront her and just keeps enabling her, acts out becuz thats all she's ever known growing up... suddenly _she's_ the one who's "irredeemable" according to Astruc? There's a reason the fandom likes to joke that Chloe was based off his ex or smth growing up, with the way she's written and treated... :/

[@m.v.gonzalez5575]

Like I thought Zoe would fix that since both were neglected but Thomas doble down on the "Chloe bad" and Zoe is just a boring side character

[@pearlrocks3209]

After a while...I realized I'm staring to have second thoughts on chloe. I hate how she turned bad again after her development in season 3, but I was re-watching the seasons again a little while ago and well...I'm getting the impression chloe didn't want to commit changing herself. I was re-watching "Zombizou" again and I loved watching her apologize to her teacher and give her a gift to make up for not bringing her a gift in the previous years....but after watching her get saved by all her classmates throughout the episode and telling them to help her, I never noticed chloe didn't thank them near the end of "Zombizou" or any other episode after that for everything they did for her, instead, she wanted them to thank her. I mean sure I liked how she let herself get infected by chat noir to buy ladybug some time and wanted to commit herself to being queen bee to do good in Paris but...I'm starting to notice chloe didn't put the same commitment and effort to doing just as much good as herself like the rest of the team did, she pretty much only wanted to do good as just queen bee. And as much as I liked seeing her show regret for hurting her dads feelings in episode Maladictator, I started to realize she didn't show any regret for the other bad stuff she did or wanted to look back on all the the other mean things she had done to the others in previous seasons, but regardless I thought, "ok, maybe she'll look back on it and apologize to them later, after all, change takes time and if she really does want to change then she'll admit it and put in the effort to correct the wrongs she did to the others" ....but she never did it....Its like Chloé didn't really want to think about looking back on her past mistakes, or wanted to admit she needed to change her behavior and apologize to the people she wronged and took advantage of so long as she was still viewed as a superhero and continued to be one, and so long as she could be Queen Bee at her own request rather than Ladybug's. I'm still re-watching the seasons all over again and each time I'm still noticing things I didn't before and now its gotten to the point where I cant help but wonder, "...was she being redeemed?".... I don't know, is any one else having these kind of thoughts?

[@Chuuya116]

@@haruuhaki worst part is that gabriel’s power is literally EMPATHY, and yet he couldnt care less what happens to his son mentally

[@arash.a2358]

@@haruuhaki to be honest now gabriel is like the least liked character in the while show,he has gone nuts

[@Poke-ladd]

I feel like some episodes have great character development but then it’s like they forget everything

[@Dred0n]

True like Chloe and mari. Everytime that girl gets a development for her to stop stalking adrien she goes back to normal like nothing never happened. And don't get me started on Chloe's so called development😒.

[@jasoethesentienteyeshapedg4847]

@@Dred0n Chloe's character development is like a path that goes up and down in a sort of vertical zigzag road.

[@SliferStreaming]

This is because america airs episodes in the incorrect order.

[@SliferStreaming]

@@Dred0n chloe according to thomas, wasn't supposed to get a redemption arc. She's going to be a shitty person for a long time likely.

[@Dred0n]

@@SliferStreaming then what's the point in giving one then boom she's back to been evil again it seems like he only done it to get more views I can't say any better or he saw that people were starting to like Chloe more than mari so he destroy her redemption arc. In all my life I've never seen something so foolish as they did to chloe. If they have done that to zuko in ATLAB the last season wouldn't have been good if he was evil again.

[@MyselfandComics]

The fact that Thomas wasn’t the one who wrote season 2 or chole’s arc and then erased it when he came back on, definitely speaks volumes about him and his writing.edit:I’m also hearing it’s a rumor and people wonder why I have trust issues lol.

[@minecraftweeeweeweeb8695]

PROPS TO THE PERSON WHO WROTE CHLOE’S ARC 😭

[@donnamitsuki281]

"she's based on my bully and she never changed so Chloé won't change either" Astruc what are you,twelve?

[@PinkPixelProductions]

@@donnamitsuki281 just because she’s based on a bully doesn’t mean her character has to be like the person it took inspo from. Chloe is a different character and she can absolutely change, but Thomas is butthurt lmao

[@seannvincenzroque1962]

@@PinkPixelProductions the man has insecurities and is willing to let the show suffer for it. I gotta admit the immaturity is immaculate

[@MeIsDumbTrash]

this the season 2 writer should replace thomas astruc

[@pinkpeppers5580]

The Fandom is so dedicated that they don't even care that we still don't have the season 1 canonical episode order list... or any of the seasons lists to be exact

[@davidpescitelli8004]

Season 1 you can pretty much watch in any order. Each episode pretty self contain with very little development… then again you can say very little development happens in every season.

[@deanm8408]

Season 4 does have an episode order

[@kinnelyuwu5771]

The episode order is meant to be the production order, Jeremy zag and Ezra have confirmed that :D

[@abbysworld05]

@@deanm8408 and season 4 is on Disney+ and the specials are too so it’s for once in order after 6 years 😑 hopefully it stays that way and says on Disney+ instead of leaving it like what they did with Netflix by only having season 1-3

[@youngm3299]

It goes by production order and they just release episodes any which way. If you want the chronological order, look at the production list. It's annoying honestly.

[@angie.castle]

Spoilers I'm still angry that they made Chloe an "irredeemable character" in favor of Zoe because Thomas hates Chloe, his own creation. Like, dude, Chloe was getting actual character development!

[@Yoshixandir]

It makes you wonder what is the point of lila. Many fans thought she was supposed to be irredeemable

[@Doris-gf4hb]

Me too

[@moon66487]

What I think about Zoe and Chloe is they both show us the two sides of the same coin. How the same problem affects 2 persons in 2 different ways.

[@angie.castle]

@@moon66487 interesting way to think of it. But did they really had to introduce Zoe they way they had to? Like, she was constantly stated she was "nice" and "better than Chloe" without us even seeing her for a few episodes first to get to know her character ToT like, one of the worst character introductions that was way too fast, especially if she is going to be main bee

[@moon66487]

@@angie.castle I understand it was very fast. But could you expect from Miraculous. Zoe is not a bad character is just they didn't knew how to introduce her properly. Which I find kind of stupid, because considering the amount of episode used as filler, some of those episodes could've been used to make a better characters introduction for her.

[@Radhaun]

I actually love how cringy cat noir is. It plays on how bad Adrian is at people, all his flirting and pick up lines are very reminiscent of old romance movies, of a kind I imagine would be on the limited selection good father would let him watch. Aaaaaalllso 100% Marinette would come across waaaaaaaay creepier it their genders were flipped. The structure of the show makes a lot more sense if you're familiar with Korean dramas. I actually like this show a lot, but it definitely has some issues.

[@honeybeebo]

well marinette hasn’t had friends or a crush before this year, because of the bullying and her shyness (and then alya shows up and helps). i’m not trying to justify her actions, but you have to play fair game with both chat noir and marinette’s obsessions with their love interests, even if it’s overall badly written

[@PinkPixelProductions]

@@honeybeebo chat noir is not at all as obsessed as Marinette is. How do you think Marinette knows his whole dang schedule? Obviously she would need to stalk him for that info! She’s made gifts for him up tik his 40’s or more and has photos of him plastered in her room! Did you see how creepy she acted on puppeteer 2? Oh my god Puppeteer 2 was HORRIBLE. She’s freakin crazy!!

[@honeybeebo]

@@PinkPixelProductions true but i think chat noir is obsessed in a different way. he’s pushy and isn’t written well when it comes to boundaries, because the writers don’t know how to write good relationships. i think mari’s behavior is the writers going too far and joking around with a teenage crush, they’re the weirdos. they took a socially awkward / shy girl and a socially awkward / sheltered boy and made them over the top weird

[@queso_caseoh]

Yeah

[@magicalgirl4]

@@honeybeebo they think a boy constantly making moves on a girl even when she rejects him is cute :/ it's not. it's literally teaching young boys to ~be persistent because she doesn't realise she's your true love!!1!~ which is a toxic and disgusting trait

[@lydiagalantmotherf]

"HE IS THE BEST CHARACTER!" Until Cat Blanc that is... Like my guy, that's still your son, I thought you loved him!

[@whitemoonwolf13]

Yeets him into the eiffel tower. I actually bust out laughing at that part it was just so damn sudden XD

[@kingnickg4268]

It still an alternate timeline though. Tbf, one timeline can be different from another one.

[@lydiagalantmotherf]

@@kingnickg4268 Yeah, but still. This is seemingly how he WOULD have acted if he found out and I think its still bad

[@PMIII]

@@whitemoonwolf13 What!? XD

[@babyfaceweeb8937]

@@lydiagalantmotherf which doesn't make sense... Like Chloe not caring about Adrien not wanting to be her friend anymore. It was for the sake of plot

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

*Fun Fact:* Miraculous Ladybug was going to be darker and mature back when it was conceptualized as a comic book by Thomas Altruc. Adrien (also known as Felix as what he was originally called) was a cold-hearted aristocrat who wanted to remove the ring in fear of bad luck. The name of the song's anime pilot is called _Beautiful World by Freetempo._

[@moonlit_heart]

The ring actively gave bad luck to Felix and the only way he could remove the ring was if he received a kiss from Ladybug

[@Pollicina_db]

First Steven Reviews Halloween special and now MLP. You have really good taste man

[@melissaquinn1463]

Even after I found this fun fact about two years ago I thought that a childhood book of mine might have been an inspiration. I sadly forgot the name of the series, but it was about a group of kids who dressed up and played superhero, there was a ladybug, a black cat, a bee, and the last two are fuzzy but I think they were a turtle and butterfly/moth. I feel like I’m crazy.

[@ma.2089]

I still stand by the belief that the original concept (the anime PV) was so much better than how this turned out Maybe someone should take the OG idea and make something good out of it

[@life_is_no_fairytale]

Adrien and Felix are 2 different characters.

[@antboymagician]

Let’s be honest: shit went to hell after Thomas, the show’s creator, assassinated Chloé’s character development because of his personal biasness with whoever she’s based on, shoved a sudden new character named Zoé down our throat, reverted Marinette back into a bumbling mess around Adrien who can’t say one sentence, made Adrien/Cat Noir semi-useless with no upgrades and angst issues, ignores much plot development and uses filters to fill up the episode slots, etc (Although all this is just my opinion so I might be the only one who sees some of this 😅)

[@haruuhaki]

fr, I'm so tired of shows that's supposed to have plot progression and development dedicated an entire arc for said plot progression and development, only to revert everything back becuz "gotta go stick to the status quo" ig?? like how they tried to "tease" fans with making mari/luka and adrien/kagami get together at the end of season 3, only to have both couples immediately break up at the start of season 4 without so much as a build up. And yes! Zoe annoys me as well! she's basically just a y/n wattpad character that just "conveniently" shows up and is related to the bee character to fill in her spot. Shows up in one episode, gets a sob story attached, gains friends at the _end_ of same episode, and then the next she gets things handed to her and becomes the new hero. Ironic considering marinette's _own_ friends (like juleka and rose) have been her friends for longer and yet zoe gets trusted with a miraculous before they could. 🙄

[@antboymagician]

@@haruuhaki That’s some irony 🤣

[@Browhycantyouaddspaceshelp]

Your so right. Like literally all the character development that happened in season 2 because HE wasn’t the one writing was completely scrapped. Once he came back with Zoe it’s like Chloe and her mom became the mother and evil sister in a gacha life hated child movie 😒

[@projectzfoundation3065]

Yeah I feel cat noir needs to evolve and Marines did devolve way to much I would understand if she still wasn't super confident but she went backwards times 10

[@itz_Miraculously_Vedika]

NO I FEEL THE SAME WAY

[@MegaLpso]

As a stalker victim, I find it very upsetting that marionette actually stalks Adrian and takes pictures of him. What's even worse is that the creator sees this as cute and funny. Marionette is also his favorite charachter, so he is very biased when it comes to her, this is also a reason that she never learns from her mistakes and she also doesn't face repercussions from it.

[@ajayplayz3000]

Marionette

[@ajayplayz3000]

Adrian

[@Iloveemusomuchomg]

Im so sorry that you were a stalked victim, Hope your okay now and I agree tho. I like the show plot but I hate how they executed it.

[@ajayplayz3000]

@@Iloveemusomuchomg I will like you to animate a cartoon for years

[@Iloveemusomuchomg]

@@ajayplayz3000 I didnt mean I hated the show Im a person who love/hate this show, I just didnt like the way they executed it They made marinette a stalker and a mary sue And thomas astruc dont even get me started

[@zwiebelkuss987]

The series is like an addiction. You know it's bad, but you still have to keep watching xD Edit: Oh my gosh thanks for all the likes!

[@lilymireles7]

This is the best description of miraculous I have ever heard

[@thatguywithasombrero5206]

This îs how I feel about Rwby

[@azulBjort_1406]

And that it's actually enjoyable while you watch it until it just doesn't make sense anymore.....but you still watch it....

[@tyronejames8410]

It just keep reeling me in!

[@sailormonet19941]

This show has us by the balls!!! I am constantly complaining about the release schedule of lack thereof and terrible decisions the characters make but…I. Can’t. Stop. WATCHING!!!

[@PhantomSavage]

The simultaneous beauty and tragedy of Miraculous Ladybug is the fact that, from a show running perspective, its clear the network and producers have no intention of straying from the safety of a simplified, formulaic, Saturday Morning Cartoon for tweens... but the characters and the base concepts the show revolves around are shockingly original and well written. This is one of the main reasons I believe the show has gone on for as long and as strong as it has. Adrien feeling isolated or depressed because of his family situation, a situation complicated by the actions of his father who has turned to evil in order to reunite his family no matter the cost is a surprisingly deep, and complicated hero/villain relationship with the potential for Shakespearean level drama. The show itself will only ever deliver the kind of simple and mildly engaging stories you can expect from a Superhero cartoon aimed at children, but its the fandom itself that really gets to play and flesh out all these strong concepts and characters into what I find to be much more dynamic storytelling. Though the show is just a fun romp to immerse yourself in from week to week, I've read stories and rifled through comics made by fans that had all the complex nuance and high-tension drama of a major Marvel/DC graphic novel, and the ML fandom to this day still has some of the best fan fiction ever written in my opinion. ML's magic is in its potential, and I hope that potential becomes realized in a truly significant way one day officially, not just through fan generated content.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

First of all, this is probably the single most eloquent and well worded comments I’ve ever read. Second, big fan of your comic dubs, man! Seriously, you’re low-key one of the only reasons I’m still a part of the fandom. And plus your work inspired me to try voice acting. And now I have a role within a ML fan reboot. Keep up the awesome work, Phantom!

[@someone3195]

Exactly! I kept on watching the show in season 1 just to hate it and cringe. Much before the reveal I realized the thing with Hawkmoth and I was like "what????". And then I actually started watching the show, while simultaneously cringing. I also liked both complexity and simplicity of relationship between Maribette and Adrien, Lb and CN. I would say some points that r worth making are: 1. I like how everything is both connected and disconnected at the same time. Like characters rly do have different layers. 2. Seems they had some cool ideas but they tried to adapt it for "dumb kid" audience. Which messes the whole thing up. A lot. 3. Instead they could get some tips from ATLA creators on how to create a show that literally appeals to anyone. 4. I love both LB and Marinette even tho they r the same person. But some more depth on Marinette especially would have been much better. Her character seems to be influenced too much from the "good sample for dumb kids" thoughts. She deserves to be the LB, she is strong and smart. Only lacking some spicy drama😂 5. They gotta get rid of stalkerish Marinette and pushy CN.

[@xoieveck9505]

Literally, couldn't have said it better myself-

[@Cosmic-mane]

Mind telling me the names of some of the great in quality fanfics that you are talking about?

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

@@Cosmic-mane Well, I have some. For Marichat fans, I recommend The Rejects Club over on AO3. If you like angst with your fluff- like me- then I also recommend Serendipitous Fate on AO3 as well. From the Ashes is really good as well.

[@Billy-fr6li]

I've been a miraculous fan for about 6 years now. I've been there since the very start in 2015, and let me tell you, NO ONE hates this show more than the fandom itself.

[@KirstenFaithy]

I don’t really hate it XD I’ve been a fan myself for 6 years I guess all fans are different though

[@queso_caseoh]

Yeah I agree but I love it more than hate it

[@littlepuppy6822]

Me tooo

[@annorawal5168]

I can't believe it's been so long, i remember randomly stumbling upon MLB and then watching french episodes cuz English ones weren't released yet. I remember at that time I was younger then both of them, hoped to atleast experience a pinch of what they were experiencing but now I'm older then them and haven't experienced shiz

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

I never hate the show either but I can see the show have more problems. The whole love triangle romance tropes with Marinette, Chloe, and Adrien is not kind of my taste. Modern cartoons really have problems with romance which it's no wonder why it becomes stale as the seasons went on. It explains why Netflix Voltron or Star vs. The Forces of Evil went downhill because the shipping issues. No wonder why romance becomes the most hated genre since Twilight was made.

[@svgarcvbes7560]

This show has tons of potential but it’s a hot mess. I’m calling it the guilty pleasure until it’s fixed.

[@nefarious_seraph13]

At 4 seasons and multiple movies, it’s just a hot mess

[@cindybenforever7647]

What I despise most of all is how he dragged his entire show through the mud because of personal bias (and an inability to take criticism) and not having the slightest bit of an understanding of character development, heck Camp Camp did it better than Miraculous both in quality control and villains. It had such potential, both the old concept and the show we got. The worst part of all is in the later seasons you can tell there was love and potential there, but the person who was writing those episodes left the show. Edit: Grammar error There was not a writer who left the show, mixed it up with another show, my bad. It turns out it was only momentary competence on the part of the writers

[@icecreamhero2375]

Sailor Moon, it ain't.

[@sunoqzi]

@@cindybenforever7647 what they could do better is have Marinettes crush go away and Adrien's crush start to develop also we need more ARCS

[@svgarcvbes7560]

@@sunoqzi Marinette has so much character potential, her obsession over Adrien has to go because she could be so much more than she already is

[@whatsyourname9581]

This show is basically the definition of wasted potential. And honestly it baffles me even more that it's not even because the budget isn't enough, the writers aren't skilled enough or the quality is lower because the creators don't care too much. It's because Astruc purposely does these shitty things that ruin the show and his own reputation, but he proceeds to act like a little boy and ignore everything, making everything so frustrating. It could be the 3D equivalent of Marvel or the Last Airbender series in terms of complexity and worldbuilding, but no, they throw it all away.

[@skuba6360]

Watch sirus the great, he has some similar opinions and makes good content, just wanted you to know

[@kek8726]

@@skuba6360 my guy

[@kek8726]

@@skuba6360 all of you

[@agresthetic]

​@@skuba6360 no.

[@LylaDagger]

I think people need to realize that heroes wear skin-tight suits because loose clothing is easy to grab and use against you. Most don't even have capes because of that reason honestly.

[@JoesAnimationHub]

to quote Brad Bird... "NO CAPES!"

[@LylaDagger]

@@komorebi3555 Eh. That's fair enough. Though I think that might just be an illusion with how the costume is. And I don't mean like. BECAUSE it's the illusion one.

[@XMewMoonLightAkitaoX]

@@komorebi3555 How are they sexualized in the show? It is a skin-tight suit. It is going to cling and show the outline of the body, which does make people appear slimmer. The internet went r18 with it, as it does with everything.

[@moonliqx2211]

@@komorebi3555 tight suits sometimes make tou look slimmer than u are

[@nitesy381]

@@XMewMoonLightAkitaoX you sweet sweet summer teen. You know a bit but not enough.

[@craftyourfancymore]

I really like the show...but Marinette really needs to tone down her crushing on Adrien. It's not good for the marketed kid audience to see the protagonist/hero actually STALKING another character (it's giving bad relationship advice without identifying it as bad). Alya doesn't even criticize her for it!

[@suhanatarannum7800]

She hopefully will control her obsession 😀

[@rahmiyahwillis2540]

Don't forget stealing, getting away with it, and bribery with no consequences whatsoever. Marinette surprisingly jacks a lot of people's phones and personal information for her own gain.

[@rahmiyahwillis2540]

@Dennise Hernandez Not to mention just the umbrella scene is what did it for her. Literally Chloe is the only person that has had long enough to develop feelings for Adrien. Being friends since childhood and eventually being there when he lost his mother like her absent mother as well.

[@rahmiyahwillis2540]

@Dennise Hernandez Especially when he tried to immediately apologize and explain everything to her before Chloe announced that he was friends with her. She just judged him and want having any of his apology.

[@4pl3x34]

fr like the only character who ever seems to point out that there's anything even remotely wrong with her behaviour is alix (iirc i haven't rewatched s3 since it aired). all the other girls act like there's nothing wrong with it and people even try and HELP her sometimes???

[@AwkwardFellow]

The main problem I have with the show is that ever since someone pointed out that Chat Noir is supposed to be just as important as Ladybug, but the show doesn’t let him do much of anything. His one job was to destroy the object the Akuma was in but Ladybug just stomps on it or breaks it over her knee and that’s it. They almost had Adrien address it but it’s gone no where beyond him being reassured that she wants him there.

[@Verysillylilly]

Okay yes I agree but the theme of the show is yin and yang so actually they need each other to balance it out I guess

[@AwkwardFellow]

@@Verysillylilly That's what I'm saying though? He would be the one to break it because his power is destruction and she fixes everything because of her creation ability. It doesn't make sense that she can just step on it and do everything herself. That's way more unbalanced than him being required for the process of deakumatizing someone.

[@NerdySatyr]

Okay guys.... seriously, this has to be one of the funniest episodes you've ever made, thank you

[@vixiestarfire]

They bounce off of each other so well I love it 😆

[@litleangelbrook]

I'm watching this late at night with headphones and have to keep pausing to stop myself from laughing. This video was amazing.

[@leaf_teaf2107]

The fact that they actually brings up the fact that the fandom for this is kindaaaa toxicccc Is a saint saving me from trying to defend my sister for Her toxic behavior on the show. Also THE ANIME LOOKS SO CUTE AND YOU BOTH ARE ADORABLE TOGETHER

[@hugejazz8127]

W h a t I? had a stroke reading that-

[@leaf_teaf2107]

@@hugejazz8127 Lol

[@leaf_teaf2107]

@Destiny Karst Oh I’m so sorry I’ll edit that to say their Preferred pronouns I didn’t even realize the mistake I’m so sorry

[@zexal5499]

@Destiny Karst I understand what you mean but Negative's description literally mentions that it is ok In their previous videos there is a question box where they answered frequently asked questions and they responded to this question

[@cyrilmarasigan7108]

What!? Can you give me list of topics that the fandom became toxic with

[@donnamitsuki281]

Do y'all remember the early days with all the fanfics about Jade Turtle AKA Nino and how we thought the turtle miraculous was inherently the guardian of the box so Nino would have to learn to be a guardian? When a good chunk of us still called Alya with the fox miraculous Volpina (cause we didn't know that was an italian word or we knew and didn't care) and thought her dynamic with Jade Turtle was going to be the opposite of Chat Noir and Ladybug, they would hate each other's guts? When someone made this beautiful rare pair of Nathaniel growing out of his crush on Ladybug and getting one on Queen Bee (Chloe) instead? That's the most fun I've ever had in this fandom and I miss those days SO MUCH

[@sophiaachou]

The good ol days before they started handing out a miraculous per episode? Love how we’re all sounding like Marinette’s grandad 😭

[@donnamitsuki281]

@@sophiaachou the good old days when we thought all Miraculous Holders would have their kwami 24/7 and we would get different dynamics I miss those times we had so much fun and did so much better than whatever the hell Astruc is doing now I want those times back😭😭😭😭

[@Slow_Internet]

Basically pre-season two era! I agree! I remember those days and think about why things had gone so wrong :'(

[@Slow_Internet]

I've been in this fandom for 6 years and I'm genuinely disappointed at how miraculous turned into wasted potential because of a creator who won't grow up >:(

[@haleemabegum8573]

@@Slow_Internet pre-season two era was literally the golden days 😭

[@kellodrawsalotkello7058]

fun fact I forgot to left out but Jeremy Sag the other writer, has stated in an interview that Chloe has a good heart, unlike Thomas who stated she cannot be redeemed and was always a bad character. Jeremy is also the one behind the upcomming Ladybug movie because he wanted to show his vision of the story, Which to me is pretty telling how Jeremy and maybe the other writers feel about Thomas's influence and writing on the show. (that they arent happy with what Thomas is doing but they never will admit that)

[@MyselfandComics]

Is there another movie coming out?

[@kellodrawsalotkello7058]

@@MyselfandComics There is a Ladbug and Cat Noir movie in the works,!

[@pietime5941]

Can you send me a link of interview please ? I want to see it too

[@babyfaceweeb8937]

Thomas based Chloe off a girl who used to bully him... Which mean Marinette is his self insert. 😃 ANYWHO he is biased.

[@bonabonatex8011]

@@kellodrawsalotkello7058 any notices when it will come out?

[@IceFireofVoid]

If I had to describe this show as simply as possible, it would be “Cool concept, bad execution” The concepts are great, the characters are good, the world building is interesting. The way it’s done isn’t good. The creators don’t respect their creation and the show is repetitive and goes nowhere. Character development gets reset constantly. It’s a show where you’re better off reading the fanfics.

[@vegardnybakeri8148]

That or just ignore 90% of the episodes and only the episodes you like are canon.

[@Za_Memeister]

This is why i watch comic dubs not the actual show

[@SliferStreaming]

Tbf u should watch them in the proper order, cuz it DOES have one, they're just aired weirdly for no reason.

[@Neo-Queenserenityt2l]

But doesn't Sailor Moon literally do the exact same thing every episode like a bad guy comes, Usagi and the sailor scouts transform, they fight the bad guy, Tuxedo Mask shows up once, they defeat said bad guy all whist Usagi is gushing over Mamoru, then we get a little bit of plot 😒 sprinkled in at some point yet look how popular that show is, literally all Superhero shows are going to be repetitive you can't just have them chilling doing nothing while the world gets destroyed around them

[@IceFireofVoid]

@@Neo-Queenserenityt2l I don’t like Sailor Moon

[@cheshirewolf1574]

Something I wholeheartedly agree with the fandom is the chole drama, she genuinely had progress to a redeemable character AND at that point she had more character development than Marinette and the creator just....took it away because he didn't like the fact people liked her? Like....seriously?

[@spritemon98]

The creator hates chloe with a literal passion

[@victoriaescobedo5458]

I know right? He could've had Chloe's mom be based on his childhood bully.

[@andantexx]

Its absolutely ridiculous

[@loveguuuuunnnn]

@@andantexx utterly ridiculous

[@dewdropexe7397]

@@loveguuuuunnnn ridiculous uturley ridiculous

[@redbloodbluemoon1423]

I hate its creators with the same passion too. Astruc is just a disgusting piece of trash.

[@sanfloo_]

What went wrong was the fact that they gave Chole a redemption but completely threw it away, Marinette is the most annoying creepy stalker main character, she gives out miraculous like it’s candy and the list goes on and on and on

[@Keith_Norman]

Marinette bad Character

[@The1andonlysharpshooter]

the fact her redemption is tanked because thomas astruc hates her. a 15 yr old teenage girl he created 😭

[@sanfloo_]

@@The1andonlysharpshooter for real. Chole would be such an amazing character going from cruel, mean and hateful to kind, caring and an amazing queen bee. And let’s not talk about her sister. They threw her in just to make Chole look worse

[@Zweshi_x]

@@sanfloo_ Idk how to explain it but I really hate her sister. Zoe was played off as one of those characters that can do no wrong, and is always wronged. She's like a horribly written protagonist character. Like when I was watching that episode, I thought that she would be the protagonist if Marinette wasn't. :/

[@sunoqzi]

@@Zweshi_x stfu Zoe was barely in 3 episodes she's feeling as if she doesn't belong in her own family

[@annett_55555]

LB in the 2dn season: tells Chloe it's dangerous for her to be Queen Bee again LB in the 4th season after Kagami's, Alya's, Nino's, Max's, Kim's and Luka's reveal: I'll pretend I've never said that. Help me pls

[@juanpauloarcillas7600]

Uhh! tell me about it! Now I feel like Chloe has the right to turn against the hero.

[@sunspotmill1291]

"Finally, a black superhero who doesn't have weather powers." Black Panther: Am I a joke to you?

[@bgos4727]

Falcon

[@RyuEmatsu]

Luke Cage

[@demonyckscreations9990]

I’m having a harder time thinking of a black superhero who DOES have weather powers. Like idk what this line was referencing

[@bgos4727]

@@demonyckscreations9990 exactly

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

Firestorm:

[@TwilightWolf032]

22:10 *Ladybug:* "Sorry Chloe, but Hawkmoth knows who you are, so you can never be a super hero again." *Also Ladybug in S4:* "Gather around, everyone whose identities were found out by Hawkmoth, except Chloe, you're all super heroes again! What's that? Optigami?! Oh, certainly you jest, the fact Hawkmoth is using their identities to get to me is irrelevant, I only made that rule for Chloe and Chloe only!"

[@sunspotmill1291]

Also Ladybug in S3 to Kagami: "I have to tell you that I won't be able to give you this miraculous again. Hawkmoth knows who you are now and keeping one's true identity a secret is a very important rule among superheroes. Without it, you and everyone you love will become endangered." Ladybug in Miracle Queen: *gives Kagami the dragon miraculous again and puts everyone she loves in danger, but somehow that factor is only just Chloe's fault*

[@sunspotmill1291]

@@komorebi3555 To be fair, Alya was her best friend and she was having a mental breakdown at this point. It would make sense to trust your BF with a secret and no one else. She also originally wanted to give Alya the ladybug miraculous in S1. We basically saw those risks played out in S4 so far with other people's identities being know to Hawkmoth and to the point where Cat Noir begins to have some trust issues with Ladybug. He was so hurt when he learns about both Nino (his BF) and Alya's superhero identities and why Ladybug started to rely on him much less.

[@realdavidjones1623]

@@komorebi3555 marinette just doesn't like her

[@realdavidjones1623]

@@sunspotmill1291 she just didn't like chloe. Simple

[@rosesongoku6980]

Reminds me of when Ralsei told Queen "You can't take over the entire world and force people to serve you with control plugs!" Queen says, "When Did I Say I Would Do That?" Ralsei replies, "You're controlling Berdly right now!" Queen's just like, "Oh This Is Just For Him"

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

My biggest frustration with MLB is that there’s so many better teen hero shows that don’t get even a fraction of its popularity and discussion. People would rather hate watch MLB than watch actually good similar shows.

[@Jack_Dawlia]

What are some good shows?

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

In terms of more obscure stuff that’s similar to MLB, The Hollow, Tales of Arcadia shows, Big Hero 6: The Series, Legend Quest (mostly season 1), almost every Spider-Man show but the last two, Iron Man: Armored Adventures, Stretch Armstrong and the Flex Fighters, the new He-Man CGI series, etc. They’re not perfect, but at least there’s actual plot progression that doesn’t take forever and the love stories in them actually go somewhere.

[@LongDeadArtist]

@@GamerSlyRatchet1 I've watched Spiderman 1-3 Amazing Spiderman 1-2 Homecoming and tales of Arcadia

[@LongDeadArtist]

@@GamerSlyRatchet1 lots of kissing

[@amphyverse]

Have you watch the Harley Quinn series ? It’s pretty good too !

[@writeon2593]

Here's a little secret of the Miraculous fandom. Most of us know it's garbage. I personally have a strong love-hate relationship with the show, seeing golden opportunities in the midst of bad writing. We find that good and do what we can with it, admitting that the rest can be weird, cringy, stupid, or outright awful, but still having a good time.

[@madcatter5293]

Well said my friend well said. 👏😌

[@aiviavi8446]

Well said!

[@lackofcreativity9883]

You're spot on with this one. The Miraculous Specials and Season 4 episodes make this very apparent

[@evxlnis]

Yes well said this show is my comfort show and so good to watch at 1 am

[@mikoevelynn111]

Almost like a dumpster fire, *you can't look away*

[@pinkneko13]

I wanted the original anime so bad, Felix looked cool and complex, Marinette looked fun and innocent, the action looked dope as hell and Gabriel looked actually threatening. Why did they give up this seemingly interesting and complex story-line for what came out in the end? Surely it must be a super valid reason... oh wait... it was because they couldn't animate the spots on Lady Bug. Imagine Avatar the last Airbender, the beautiful story that it is, now imagine them scattering and stumbling about the different plot points and dumbing down the whole series because Katara's hair loops wouldn't animate properly. WTF.

[@hydrofrolicwildflower3393]

ick no. Imo it looked cringy. And felix looked DEAD

[@phoeberoman7607]

@Deku hates you, and so do I Inside, he is

[@alyssabullock6421]

Pretty sure they didnt go with anime because they feared it would attract less kids. But yeah, it sucks they didnt choose the concept

[@pinkneko13]

@@alyssabullock6421 and sell less toys, :/, anyway that's the excuse they gave, they could've just said they were unsure of the concept.

[@boqoz5930]

@@alyssabullock6421 the show rn is more popular between teens & young adults, so it'd be better if they marketed it toward teens

[@fallingapart]

They have such a toxic relationship honestly. When Adrien found out lady bug was Marinette, he basically started frothing at the mouth and was obsessed. Marinette now is stalking him, obsessing over him, building her whole life around him. Together theyre obsessed and WAY too lovey dovey where theyre entire relationship feels so artificial and uncomfortable. They woukd make good friends, just not good lovers.

[@chasestudio2736]

I’d like to compare ML to a childhood boyfriend/girlfriend. The idea of it is thrilling and fun, but the execution lacks care and tends to be a little juvenile.

[@MaeAlessa]

And then when you grow up and look back on it you realize it was lowkey hella toxic

[@TheHiddenDirector]

The major problem the fandom has with Thomas Astruc is that he has no ability to take criticism. Every time anyone so much as asks a question about why he made a decision, he goes off like a stuck up teenage boy who was given a bad review on their fanfiction. No one is allowed to dislike the decisions he's made for the show. Look, I understand he gets a lot of hate and people actually *do* send horrible messages to him (re: the death threats discussed in the video), so I *do* understand that can make a person defensive and hostile. Still, he's a grown man and his fanbase is primarily teenagers. Telling them they're wrong because they like Chloe or think that the love square is getting old is just... petty. It's not addressing anything, it's just putting his fingers in his ears and going, "LALALA, I'M NOT LISTENING!" (Edited because I spelled Astruc's name wrong, lol)

[@andantexx]

Thomas is literally the yandev of cartoons. He hates chloe A PERSON HE MADE!

[@IceFireofVoid]

He takes the laziest excuse to deflect criticism too. “Think Chloe deserved better? You’re supporting abusers! Oh you just don’t like Marinette because you’re sexist.” That last one makes so little sense because a large chunk of the people criticizing Marinette’s character *are* women. Myself included. And Thomas Astruc is not one. It feels like he’s using the gender of the character as a shield against critics and that’s just really weird.

[@bunbun4021]

Thomas Asstruck has done way more stuff than that, and god forbid you to say you hate Marinette cause he and her stans you call you sexist. ( Thomas simps for Marinette ( who is 14) who is apparently the *child* of him and his ex-GF from what I have heard.)

[@kalesm3512]

This is so true

[@nikitagigigeorge8572]

Dude if that's his reasoning then he's Hella toxic cause he often justifies Marinette stalker behavior and normalizes her gaslighting cat noir multiple times. When any of the fans ask if Marinette and Adrian can get equal screentime he calls them sexists saying that they don't like seeing a girl as a lead and wants to see Adrian just cause he's a boy like wtf those are all the red flags just showing how toxic his mentality is that he normalizes stalking and creeping around, being selfish and gaslighting calling it heroic. This show is a classic example that I'm gonna add onto my list of shows who's potential was completely wasted cause of immature writers and creators.

[@Maplie]

What I found more revealing from the Cat Blanc episode is that Hawk Moth wouldn't stop even after finding out his son was Cat Noir. He even akumatized him

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Miraculous Ladybug: What happens when a Creator refuses to accept criticism and let's his own pettiness hold him back from bringing out a show's full potential.

[@noorbohamad5796]

Miraculous ladybug what happens when a smart intelligent creator refuses to put up with raging hate

[@geardog24]

This series could've been something if the story wasn't stretched out from a love triangle to love hexadecimal.

[@cryforhelp7270]

And if the characters weren't so intertwined with Thomas' own life... Resulting in bad writing. The guy gets kinda creepy after a while.

[@sailormonet19941]

Riiight?!?!??!! All they’ve been doing is showing us why they can’t be together so I’m left wondering…. SHOULD they be together???

[@spritemon98]

Agreed

[@Zweshi_x]

@@cryforhelp7270 Still annoyed over Chloe's situation.

[@cryforhelp7270]

@@Zweshi_x It's hard to get over 😔

[@jeshuarestituyo284]

The half of the fandom is very toxic for sure but you gotta check Thomas tweets cuz he’s also not really safe of sin😭😭 he can’t take criticism from people who genuinely wants the best for his show and has compared Chloe to real life abusers and such

[@haruuhaki]

it doesnt help that he's on twitter, and that site alone just makes his bs go up by a lot. he's even your typical twitter user, too. there are _many_ screenshots that show how he's quick to block even when some of those people asked legitimate questions and even voiced their criticisms respectfully. Thomas doesnt want critics, he just wants yes men. Ironically this is _exactly_ how Chloe is in the show with her father being nothing more than a yes man who spoils her, and yet _she's_ in the wrong despite the fact her father only ever enabled her and did nothing against her neglectful mother? sure, astruc

[@jeshuarestituyo284]

@@haruuhaki thank youuuu those are my exacta thoughts of him cuz he’s acting like a man child in his Twitter and you’re not even supposed to be that “friendly or responsive” to your own fans as there’s a line but he keeps breaking it. Changes the plot of his show all the time and yeah I always thought he was projecting himself onto Chloe’s whole thing. Heck he even said she’s based on his bully who he BELIEVES she’s still bad but I’m like dude do you even know her anymore? You making a character over someone else who prolly will feel creeped out by that? Like if you based on her on her okay creepy for sure but don’t post it online but he did regardless as if that’s gonna get him pity from us. He’s a grown ass man omg.

[@miss_chelles1338]

Well... in a sense Chloe is an abuser but she's not a rapist like how Thomas compared her to one. 😒 That was just gross of him to do.

[@miss_chelles1338]

@@haruuhaki f*cking this right here. 👆

[@error-try-again-later]

​@@miss_chelles1338he said _WHAT_

[@CosmicNebula444]

The jokes this episode were top notch, gotta say. Negative being hit by a plush ladybug and just not reacting at the beginning of the video sets just the perfect tone lmao also Isabella cracking up during a skit right before the shot cuts is just great *AYO WAIT THEY KISSED HOLD ON-*

[@mariaefstratiou7427]

IKR I DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE DATING

[@Ryuuko-chan]

@@mariaefstratiou7427 WAIT THEY ARE!?

[@alicekipourou6732]

@@Ryuuko-chan yea!

[@mariaefstratiou7427]

@@Ryuuko-chan yes! If you look up on their tiktoks they refer to each other as partners

[@Quarataia]

Yes, every ML fan I ever encountered did force me to watch episodes and give me spoilers. They also said "it's important just trust me" an unhealthy amount of times. Well, looks like it goes to the guilty pleasure folder.

[@animeboysbereal2951]

....

[@doityourselfa]

as someone who got into this show wayyy back when it aired, sat through the 2 year hiatus for season 2, got my first proper introduction to fandom/fan culture, I can say that no one does it like the ML fandom. the fan theories were so unique and yet so on the mark. most of the stuff was actually way better than what canon turned out to be. the quality of fanfic, even on wattpad and Amino was extraordinary and so original, especially with only one season of monster-of-the-week content and the bare dregs of a proper show the fans had to work with. i dropped the show mid way through season 2 mostly because I had seen better done by the fans and found it not worth sticking around for, but i will always treause the early fandom for what it was. (side note: do any wattpad veterans remember "Jump"?? the mairchat fic?? my friend and I quote that last line all the time)

[@haleemabegum8573]

NO WAY I've been trying to find that fic again for forever and you just helped me 😭 thank youuu

[@michaupinski6506]

Mr. Pidgeon has more character development than Adrien.

[@ariauora]

Pigeon* also Mr Pigeon is a villain. It’s Mr Ramier

[@michaelmoss9198]

@@ariauora he’s the weakest villain in the show

[@PinkPixelProductions]

HAHAHA

[@onyxthegoblin383]

“How is she going to break a sword?” Do you know how many times this girl has torn the *Eiffel Tower. In half?*

[@childhood9643]

I'm honestly worried about the fact that the Eiffel Tower gets destroyed basically every episode.

[@starringintheskies]

@@childhood9643 _Honestly, same._

[@Kaijugan]

Miraculous and RWBY are the quintessential tv examples of “cool idea, poor execution”.

[@Project-zu4xh]

Me and my brother said the exact same thing 🙃

[@awsomelyrandomstuff916]

For me it's like this Season 1: Pretty repetitive villain of the week with a good finale Season 2: Getting some good progression in actual plot and character development Season 3: Welp guess we're back to square one in certain aspects

[@TheSilencedNobody]

Season 4: Oh let me trow everything away and put to worst. . . .

[@slickrobin4404]

@@TheSilencedNobody let's see how season 5 turns out

[@ok-bs1dx]

@@slickrobin4404 have you seen the first two episodes?

[@goldendarkness104]

1 year later now it's ss5 IT GETS WORSE

[@miss_chelles1338]

Ikr, pretty much

[@midajahhayden]

Marinette is so creepy with her stalking Adrien. Adrien is a good characters, especially as chat noir, though sometimes cringy and annoying, he does get better as the seasons progress. Kagami is pretty cool. Mostly everyone else is hit or miss pending on the episodes. The only ones that really suck are lylla and chloe, at least chloe got a redemption, only for it to be thrown away. I wish they kept the anime one, it would of been more interesting and mature than what we got. Overall the show is fine, just ignore the fandom, especially the toxic people.

[@kotaro4760]

I’m glad i’m not the only who finds Marinette creepy, she’s a literal sasaeng

[@emariadova4452]

If this was a anime a would never found it

[@The1andonlysharpshooter]

can we pleeease talk about how in the latest ep released, marinette just took out her anger on chat when it wasn’t his fault they won ship of the year. YES he was out of like for constantly pursuing her after denying him multiple times. Which is like the typical “im a nice guy” attitude. BUT it definitely wasn’t his worst either and ladybug has shrugged off wayy worse so it looks so off why she would get agitated at him saying “lets go back to see what the reason was for us kissing”. Adrien gets MAD upset, and rightfully so, but after spending time with mari he goes bACK TO DECIDING TO RELENTLESSLY FLIRT WITH HER?? “i should continue to pursue my love ladybug” even after her VERY VERY CLEAR DISCOMFORT WITH THIS 😭 its such a horrible thing to teach young kids and the fact so many kids already do what mari BECAUSE theyre inspired by her is just 😟 Adrien just further pushes to boys that no doesn’t mean no. Which is weird cuz ladybug said this to felix but CANT to chat noir?? im done 😭 idm adults/older kids watching this and understanding that this is obviously wrong and don’t do it, but kids look up to these cartoon characters as role models.

[@Zweshi_x]

Oofers what about the episode "Lies" when Kagami tried to keep Adrien acting one way, (her "perfect" Adrien or something), and when he tried to be himself she threw a hissy fit. That lowkey ruined her character by a lot. I don't remember if she acknowledged it was her fault, or if she just left and tried to recompose herself after they broke up. If it was the former then I still think she's pretty cool.

[@marriqx]

@@kotaro4760 bruh a huge part of the fandom agrees

[@tylerkochman1007]

In a city as large as Paris, what are the odds that every person akumatized is pretty much someone who interacted with the main characters in one way or another that same day?

[@-Radical.Ed-]

Pretty much everyone that got a miraculous was in the same class as your son. Hawkmoth, get your shit together.

[@carolinas1s1s1]

@@-Radical.Ed- scientifically comproved: only teenagers and feeding pidgeons people get bad feelings

[@serenatsukino5252]

Cat Noir being pushed behind the text (in the thumbnail) is exactly what Thomas Astruc is doing to Adrien in the show.

[@Renteng]

should’ve been the main character

[@miraculouslbfan]

@@Renteng he could of continued he was a protagonist. He mainly got moved to just a love interest and not really a main character. Kinda sad abt that.

[@CorHellekin]

i hate how their miraculous are supposed to be equivalent, but he is many times a damsel in distress or marienette can deal with the threat on her own, as if she's better.

[@serenatsukino5252]

@@CorHellekin Yeah, he's supposed to be the deuteragonist but it's sad that he really was reduced to a love interest. :/

[@arceusinsanity301]

Oh you haven't seen the tweets. Yeah Thomas Astruc compared Chloe to abusers and said that if you like her you must be an abuser. Said the time Chloe was shielding Sabrina from an akuma was because she saw Sabrina as her property. And is overall just the worst and the definition of unprofessional

[@icecreamhero2375]

There are several issues with that 1) its fiction 2) To quote Ferb from Phineas and Ferb " Anybody can be a hero but everyone loves a good villain. 3) The villain characters can be fun because they are suturing the pot and the story would be boring without them that's why people love Team Rocket. 5) The more appropriate response would be I didn't expect that people would love Chole so much. She was designed to be the villain. Thanks, guys.

[@isabellaa8875]

I honestly don’t like him at all, he’s the one making the show bad. I mean really the way he praise is Marinette even though she a stalker. Like huh? How is that girl power that he tries to do but fails. Yes so unprofessional especially the way he replies back to the fans….

[@Dred0n]

And when people say that they like adrien and to give him more screentime he says that the reason why we're saying this is because he's a boy.

[@draconshot928]

@@Dred0n well thennif that's his reasoning then give us more bunnix

[@nikitagigigeorge8572]

Dude if that's his reasoning then he's Hella toxic cause he often justifies Marinette stalker behavior and normalizes her gaslighting cat noir multiple times. When any of the fans ask if Marinette and Adrian can get equal screentime he calls them sexists saying that they don't like seeing a girl as a lead and wants to see Adrian just cause he's a boy like wtf those are all the red flags just showing how toxic his mentality is that he normalizes stalking and creeping around, being selfish and gaslighting calling it heroic. This show is a classic example that I'm gonna add onto my list of shows who's potential was completely wasted cause of immature writers and creators.

[@ebkittydiyer6328]

I feel like the grief most fans have over the show is just as you said in the video the lack of character development, especially for the MAIN CHARACTER which you’d think would have the most but hadn’t seemed to change all that much from season one. The only thing that has seemed to change is that she’s become more obsessive over Adrien, which first of all for a kid show is bad modeling for how people should act around their crushes, but also it’s just all around creepy and weird for the “good guy” to do. Another things is that the cat and ladybug miraculous are supposed to be equal and like two sides to the same coin kind of deal but it always seems as if ladybug is the stronger one while chat noir is kind of the side kick which is absolutely hated by chat noir fans. On that note a lot of people think that chat noir should’ve been the main character of the two because he has these dynamics and he seems like actually human, Marinette is more f less a Mary Sue with her only “faults” being that she is clumsy and can’t act around her crush. She’s shown as being amazing at art AND fashion AND cooking AND basically everything she does in general. She was chosen to design the cover art for a famous rockstar and also was gifted the chance to go to New York with a famous designer. She is also the best at video games as well? Even better than those that you’d assume play video games all day. She does have those times where she says she’s struggling and has breaks downs over it but overall she can basically do everything without much effort it seems. People are also mad over the way Marinette treats Adrien, and all this other stuff which I don’t have the energy to cover now (I know “you already wrote this long comment” this is off the tip of my mind). What hurts me the most is that with Chloe she seemed to have such good character development but then it felt like it was all thrown out the window with the season 3 finally, being REPLACED in the next season so to assume we’ll never ever see queen Bee again. Oh I almost forgot to mention it was also heartbreaking to watch as Adrien’s father akumatized him once he found out he was chat noir, and a fatherly connection that at least I thought was there and would stop him didn’t seem to matter as he ruthlessly turned his son. It made me lose all hope I had that he could be a father. I may add to this later but whooo knowwwsssss

[@alyssapinon9670]

This. All this. I wanted to get into Marinette’s character especially since I’m super girly and love fashion design. But so far she has 0 consequential character flaws. And I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s noticed that she’s just naturally good at everything she tries and it’s never made a big deal. Like at least in another book/tv series I watched, there’s a character who is multitalented but all the other character acknowledge that this is out of the ordinary. And even then she has her fair share of character flaws that make her more relatable. My brilliant friend for anyone interested in the name

[@cheap2402]

Agreed. With the character development, the show feels like it's playing tug of war. Like in one episode we may see Marinette/Ladybug breakdown or make mistakes which are good flaws but then it's all either solved by a few words of encouragement from chat or whoever or ignored altogether with no lasting consequences for her actions.

[@TheArtisticAloubell]

The thing is, Miraculous started off with a cool concept (mind you its very similar to Shugo Chara (heavily), Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne (so I'm told), and Spiderman), but the problem is that it's milking its gimmicks for too long with little to no payoff. The love square should have been dealt with a long time ago, the identities should have been revealed a while ago, Chloe was done dirty, so was Gabriel, and the insistence in keeping the status quo for so long shot themselves in the foot. Yes, they are making more strives to shake things up now, but look at the cost DX With all of its let downs, at least it's huge potential makes it an excellent catalyst for fanfiction x3 The fanfiction is great x33 Nice review Negative! X3

[@aliciagonzalez5434]

Hi Aloubell!

[@TheArtisticAloubell]

@@aliciagonzalez5434 hiya! 😁

[@majinniro4688]

Another show that you should mention that came before miraculous and almost the same is Randy cunningham the 9th grade ninja

[@TheArtisticAloubell]

@@majinniro4688 Yeah, I've heard people mention that one too!

[@andantexx]

Thomas wont learn will he

[@songweretson]

I remember when this show first came out. I was interested, until I actually watched it, and I was so disappointed by how surface level the show was. Then the fandom officially killed it for me when I saw them having an outright shipwar over whether Adrian should be with Marinette or Ladybug, and how Marinette should be with Chat Noir, but her relationship with Adrian was unhealthy. I just stared at that in disbelief before deciding... Yeah. No. I'm not touching that.

[@spritemon98]

I've no words that describe that madness....

[@songweretson]

@@spritemon98 That was when I knew Tumblr users were out of their bloody minds.

[@spritemon98]

@@songweretson I'm really glad I never did anything with shipping

[@songweretson]

@@spritemon98 Yeah... I was involved in it back when I wrote fanfiction. It usually ended badly, though.

[@spritemon98]

@@songweretson awww....

[@mateusf.s.880]

This show has so much space for starting amazing discussions by letting the characters make mistakes and correcting them, but marinette and adrien seem like the moral compass and are never allowed to do wrong so the show ends up really shallow. And beeing a kids show is no excuse for that, it might be shoking to some, but kids actually have brains and can use them IF STIMULATED CORRECTLY

[@mateusf.s.880]

@@unicornlover1237 I’m afraid you missed the point, I just think the producers underestimate the capacity of kids to understand some topics and are afraid to make protagonists mess up, I believe some of the criticism made in the video could be avoided if the writers hadn’t make these mistakes, it’s not abt making a show better for kids it’s just abt making it better

[@Nekoszowa]

"What went wrong?" They turned it into kiddie show with bad cgi instead of leaving it be a cool looking 2d animated series.

[@jessicathenobody]

They had to cancel the 2D because it was difficult to animate Ladybug's suit, I think there are more reasons but that's all I know

[@Pollicina_db]

@@jessicathenobody It ain’t that big of a deal to animate dots trust me. It was just cheaper to make it 3D

[@jessicathenobody]

@@Pollicina_db I don't know really, that's only what I heard

[@SliferStreaming]

Its not really a kiddie show? In one of the specials a character temporarily dies

[@cathl4953]

It probably would still have the writing problems it now has

[@bookworm209]

You're correct, ML is 100% a writing prompt show. If fan fiction wasn't a thing, I doubt it would be anything close to as popular as it is because the show just isn't well written enough for most teens and adults to get really into it. However, the show has some really cool ideas and decent character templates, making for lots of inspiration. I got into it over COVID and that meant watching the show once, then enjoying lots of fanworks where people made the show more serious than it actually is.

[@andantexx]

Exactly! this show is garbage but i still love it.

[@bookworm209]

@@andantexx I swear, I only watch the new content so I can follow along with what's happening in fan content since that mostly assumes you've watched the show, lol. I will also say this, if you ever need to teach someone what NOT to do writing wise, ML is excellent reference material so you don't have to try and make up examples of what's bad!

[@andantexx]

@@bookworm209 Well said.

[@makka2634]

Exactly, the show is a literal treasure for fanfiction. God, I read so many amazing fanfics through high school to college by actual talented fans who care more about the story and the characters.

[@Dave102693]

I can't really get into clustermesses being made because the actual production is still in protype stage. That screams unwatchable, and I watch RWBY, which is just as bad. lol

[@GamingG4276]

Now there is a new season where Hawkmoth has combined his miraculous with the peacock miraculous and has become Shadowmoth. They also introduced Chloe's sister Zoey, meaning they gave up on redeeming Chloe entirely. It all feels like the writers are running out of ideas.

[@bessieburnet9816]

What happened?! I tell you what happened. 1. A great concept for a show was handed to a bumbling, incompetent writer. 2. The series is more than halfway at this point, and it still hasn't moved on from the fluff phase and the monster of the day phase, and has not yet committed to a forward going plot and narrative. They aren't even close to beating Hawkmoth. They don't even know who he is. 3. They waste the show's time with fanservice. Pointless Adrienette tension, Special New York and Shanghai episodes that don't matter, and random Miraculous heroes that only exist to sell toys. 4. The show is just getting so goddamn repetitive. Season 3 was rife with the same episodes every time! Something happens that gives Adrien the idea that Marinette is Ladybug, or they find out about each other, and through defeating the Akuma, they either forget about it entirely or Adrien is convinced Mari isn't Ladybug. And we're back to square one again! We get it! They can't know each other's identities. Stop telling us, it's the 3rd season! Stop shoving this pointless will the won't they in my face if it's just gonna amount to nothing. But we need actual progression between the love interests please. 5. Not only that, but the so called romance is AWFUL! If Marinette and Adrien are gonna get together, show us how they'd be a good couple and progress their relationship please! They hardly know each other. They aren't friends. They barley interact. They're only friends of each other's friends. Marinette can't even get a full sentence out to him. They aren't even using the fact that Marinette is a designer and Adrien is a model to bring them together. No matter what the Origins umbrella tells you, Marinette only has a celeb crush on Adrien. And the future where they did get together was only based on her being Ladybug. Why should I care about them getting together at this point? 6. And the superhero side. Yeesh! They used to be equals. Now it's all going backwards. This is Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir. And equal partnership. Their powers are supposed to be Yin and Yang, but Cat has one while Marinette has four! But now it just seems Ladybug does all the work here. Their partnership and bond has gone down. Ladybug has become increasingly mean to him, and Cat Noir sexually harasses her. They aren't even equals here. They are just like co workers who get along. 7. It romanticizes stalking, jealousy and possession. Marinette stalks Adrien to the point she has a tracker on his phone, and she sabotages Adrien's interactions with any girl, and she's meant to be seen as a girl with a silly little crush. Cat Noir on the other hand, sexually harasses Ladybug, constantly flirting with her and asking her out when she makes it clear she doesn't like it and likes someone else, and gets all pissy when she rightfully rejects him. He thinks he's entitled to her and it's presented as true love persisting. 8. Marinette is so unlikeable. And a complete mary sue. Every bad thing she does is presented as ok, and she's seen as a paragon of virtue. The creator even said that she's meant to be like his child, as Marinette's mother is based on a Chinese ex he had. She's terrible Chinese rep, she's a selfish jealous rat, and her whole character revolves around Adrien. They almost completely ignored the fact that she wanted to be a fashion designer and made Adrien the focus point of her character. 9. Marinette is a goddamn hypocrite. "You can't be a hero if Hawkmoth knows your identity" Hawkmoth knows who most of the Miraculous owners were at the end of Season 3, yet they were all allowed to be heroes again, yet Chloe can't. It was just an excuse to get rid of Chloe. Lame. 10. The handling of the characters is terrible. There is no growth. They only exist to be one note caricatures and are just purely their roles. Marinette is the clumsy, yet perfect girl. Alya is the sassy black friend. Adrien is the soft perfect boy. Chloé is the spoilt rich bully. Gabriel the mysterious villain. Luka the backup bf. Kagami is the cold love rival that must be taken down at all costs. Lila is a lying liar. Natalie is the cold secretary. Etc. And none of them grow out of these basic traits. Chloé, Natalie, Gabriel, any time a character tries to be something more than their singular role and trait to become a little 3 dimensional, they squash it. 11. They completely botched a character's redemption arc and character development. We all know we're talking about Chloe here. What they did to Chloe is probably one of the worse examples of bad writing I have ever seen. They completely ruined the best bit of writing they had so far. One of these characters was finally starting to have depth and have a dynamic change. I was so excited for Chloe to be like Diamond Tiara, or Tom, or any other jerk character that became buddies with the MC. I was excited to see her change and become a good girl. And she did. She even resisted an Akuma because she was so loyal to good. But then Thomas randomly decided to go back on all of that, and change her back to mean again. Not only did they make her a bully in a deus ex machina, they exaggerated her completely. Removing her care for her parents, basically made her Sabrina's slave owner, etc. And if that weren't enough, they completely replaced her with a Mary Sue character that plays like a Y/N oc just so they can get out of the work of redeeming a flawed, three dimensional character and just have their nice Queen Bee immediately. It's the worst writing decision I have ever seen ever. Thomas has even said that this 14 year old girl is beyond redeemable, and denies the girl with the neglectful mother who couldn't even say she loved her was abused. 12. Any thread for an interesting plot that they find, they squash it. They botched Chloe, Natalie isn't a villain anymore, Gabriel has lost his sympathetic villain status and care for Adrien, Lila became an annoyance instead of the antagonist she was set up to be, Lukanette and Adrigami were done in a matter of one episode, we still haven't got anything with the Miraculous temple and the worldbuilding behind that. 13. Now they are just writing Cat Noir out completely. Ignoring the fact he is literally related to the villain. Rena Rouge has got more important. Cat feels like he's just there for muscle and the fact that he was the main male. He's let in on nothing while Marinette tells Alya she's Ladybug and helps her with furthering her into becoming an almighty creation god. 14. The only thing that's good about it is the theme song. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It's such a shame. I loved Miraculous. I love superheroes. It had such great concepts but it just had to fall into such incompetent hands. As I grew up and matured, I realized the truth. I realized as a writer how bad the writing direction is. As I grew older, I realized how unhealthy the romantic behaviours were. It may be fun to watch, especially with a younger kid, but as a former fan, to see all that potential go up in flames hurts. I used to be so excited for each episode, now I can't wait for it to die. I really wanna rewrite it. In someone else's hands, it could be a masterpiece. But no. We are left with kids looking up to Marinette, a faux Asian who is a Walmart Yandere stalker and a cheap Sailor Moon rip off who teaches you that stealing your crush's items, breaking into their home, sabotaging the friendships he has, is really romantic, Adrien teaches you that it's ok to constantly disrespect a girl's boundaries because it means she's your true love.

[@victoriaescobedo5458]

Marinette had plenty opportunities towards character development, and yet the writers didn't seize them

[@ChaoticNalilitoMC]

omg yes, THISSSSS!!! As a writer I do enjoy the show but it also makes me want to slam my head into a wall all the time when I watch it

[@Dred0n]

Well said👏👏 and also season 4 is the worse once it's over it's the only season I wouldn't want to rewatch in the future.

[@richogarden]

Preach it!!

[@sariela_063]

Well said

[@katyesyes]

my brain just turns off the second an episode starts and thats usually a good time, but the best part for me is hunting down the funny posts of the community afterwards, absolutely a guily pleasure

[@islabubble]

Season 4 isn’t that boring they have more plot

[@katyesyes]

@@islabubble yes season 4 has some interesting developments, I meant it more like "turn my brain off" - show is a positive

[@rempelremps5769]

Cat Blanc was heart-wrenching, it felt like it actually hurt my heart. My heart was actually hurting a little. That made my family worry.

[@slytherinsupremacy]

I actually agree!! It gave a look inside of adrien, and how he really struggles with his feelings and how he was so broken that this one situation was all that took for him to break and unleash all hell. It was really tragic

[@JustDeichan]

Tomas can only WISH nobody talks about him. Ehh... his twitter posts is something... insulting to say the least.

[@pixelwashere9720]

I have such a love-hate relationship with the show. It has a great premise, good idea for square triangle between 2 characters, character development and etc etc. But I also critisize it so much cus OH MY GOD SO MUCH WASTED POTENTIAL. Like the character development for our 2 main characters, giving Kagami and Luka more personal purpose other than just being extra love interest and throwing away character development (I'm looking at Hawkmoth and Cloe). There are so many things that is making the show a huge mess, but it's the fact that I want to see Marinette and Adrien FINALLY becoming a thing that is still making me stay for this show

[@qualityguacamole9142]

Imma nitpick and say that you confused ‘love triangle’ with ‘love square’, and ended up saying “square triangle”. I was so confused

[@AMirrorCat]

The Marinette/Ladybug and Adrian/Cat Noir love “triangle” is more of a love circle with the way the show has it

[@KavinCatastrophe]

Miracle Queen Really Pissed me off. Not only for Chloe Character Assassination but you have all of Paris Under your Control. Why not use the Entire City to Attack Ladybug and Catnoir. And Hawkmoth you had the Snake Miraculous why give it to a Zombie. The ability to rewind time is OP. And Seriously You trusted Chole and Not Lila. You know Lila the Person who Hates Ladybug and Chole the Person who Helps Ladybug. Hawkmoth what is your Obsession with the Bourgeois Family. Never understood why you said Style Queen was your Greatest Creation.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

And, um... she had control over ALL Miraculous Holders, right? Last I checked, Hawk Moth and Mayura have Miraculous. Why didn’t she sting them, and force them to make her an army of villains and monsters? And akumatise the brainwashed heroes into villains? Ladybug and Chat Noir would never have stood a chance. She could’ve just helped herself to a cup of tea or coffee, and relax while her army takes care of the duo. Simple.

[@youngm3299]

For real!!! They just "Thanos Snapped" her whole redemption arc. Chloe is one of my favorite characters and it hurt that the writers did that to her. Now, they brought in Zoe and they try so hard to praise her.

[@jasoethesentienteyeshapedg4847]

@@youngm3299 Now her character development is like a struggling vertical zigzag path that slowly plummets deeper and deeper.

[@faymelp826]

Unfortunately, even with the ability to rewind time, Hawkmoth is NOT Kira Yoshikage, even if Adrien is basically Hayato lol

[@andantexx]

Thomas is just a shit director

[@171QA]

Honestly, all the stuff now happening in S4 should’ve been S3 and season 2 shouldn’t have been mostly a re-tread of S1’s plot with the exception of some new heroes showing up.

[@stargalacirose9133]

I feel like Marinette and Adrien are having a lot of character growth in this newest season. MARINETTE seems to be focusing more on herself and on her responsibility as a super hero and Adrien seems to actually be focusing more on processing his emotions. Season 4 has been great so far but yeah, season 1-3 had me screaming in frustration 😂

[@pietime5941]

Honestly I kinda disagree about season 4 because like it still good but it very messy and way too confusing lol ( I’m not talking about update episode tho )

[@stargalacirose9133]

@@pietime5941 The newest episode made me revoke my previous comment 😂 lolz

[@pietime5941]

@@stargalacirose9133 OOF sorry at first It was but strong but later it gotten way confusing lol only episode I like is probably Gabriel aggress ( except where they show marinette part because I thought it was cringe and overused ) because it show how smart Felix is and maybe wishmaker too because we get know adrien bit more

[@felicityguillen]

this aged poorly, risk just made her an absolute ???

[@papkinn]

Most absurd thing about all of mess with Miraculous Ladybug is fact it's caused by creator acting like he's in age of main characters. He takes no criticism, he openly admits he dislike some of his own characters, argues with kids on twitter about the show and i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even have clear idea what to do with the series he just writes it as it goes. He even said "some people are just evil and can't be redeemed" in context of *15 years old character of abused girl from broken family he wrote himself* like dude you're over 40 why are you releasing your weird personal frustration on a fictional child? Nobody wants to watch that... to make matters worse he even make whole episode to tell fans of the show that he's annoyed they're not giving him recognition he feels entitled to... again dude is over 40 years old. Because of that Miraculous Ladybug doesn't really feel like a cartoon anymore more like some old dude being creepy through fictional characters and world, at some point you stop seeing Marinette as a creepy stalker you start seeing Thomas Astruc thinking this type of behavior is cute and normal and many many more, after all it's not characters making choices it's their writers making them do that.

[@xXxakurokuxXx123]

THIS THIS THIS

[@Nanao_Ise7472]

He’s a family man but he have the mental like an incel. Overall this show have become his personal diary that he want to show to the kids that it’s okay to be creep and hypocrite for fulfilling your lust and humiliating the people who made minor/major mistakes without understanding the reason why he/she doing that.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

I also find it hilarious that he has this strong belief that Chloe has managed to gain sentience and is acting the way she does in canon out of free will. Dude, you wrote her doing that stuff. Why are you trying to blame her for things you made her do? It’s so pathetic. Look, I will forever hold a special place in my heart for this show. It’s what inspired me to pick up writing again, and I love making superhero stories. But this show has just gone beyond the point of salvation. Hell, me and some other fans have began writing a fan reboot to post on YT called ReMiraculous, we’re that fed up with this show going nowhere. That’s how bad the writing in canon has become.

[@scarxnnivs]

I swear to god, at this point I can't hate Mari anymore, I hate the writers for… whatever the hell they've done with a great concept.

[@mackenziediaz8780]

Is no one mentioning that they kissed in the bloopers? Like I'm seriously happy about that. My heart soared. Good for you Negitive!! Edit: Woah, that's a lot of likes. Thanks guys!

[@michael1762]

straight up! im so happy for them!

[@awkwydork813]

right! they are so cute i love them !

[@sleepymooffin7879]

The scene where Kagami said "Just change your target" to Adrien kinda hurts me now with the position they're currently in.. To me, that scene felt like foreshadowing, and because Adrien liked Ladybug, I sort of knew at the time that Kagami would be like a filler character; a character that is used to stray away from any development of the original ship (at least that's what I feel it means). Now that I've caught up with season 4, that scene kinda stung looking back at it because of how Adrien acted in the episode 'Lies'. Kagami was just being used only because Ladybug wouldn't see him the way Adrien, aka Chat Noir, sees her (I dunno how to properly explain that right now), and as soon as they broke up (he wasn't treating Kagami well and there were lies due to his secret identity and his love for ladybug that she didn't know about) he went right back to liking Ladybug. This infuriates me for two reasons. 1. I get that they're 14 and Adrien doesn't "understand love" because he's been locked up in his house all his life, but it doesn't excuse the way he acted toward Kagami. At the end of the episode, he doesn't even acknowledge that he did anything wrong, he just went back to his fascination over Ladybug. 2.

[@inplane9970]

The show will always remain a mess as long as Chloe is left the way she is Season 3 onwards. Not just because her character is ruined, but it's a statement to the overall writing itself. Thomas hates Chloe as a character because she is based off of a school bully he knew, and therefore he can just leave her as a stagnant mess. If he can control the story just through personal feelings, then the entire story is screwed.

[@user-qp9wt1qy9l]

I mean it seems kinda stupid how the whole fandom just throws hate at Thomas.It's funny how even people who know who Chloè was based off of still think"Wow he is so biased". Y'all really need to stop because the story keeps on going we don't know what will happen to Chloè.Chloé might end up nice or mean.Chloé has trama from her mom not being with her and her redemption is also based off of a true story and so is her downfall.We are only four seasons into the series and you guys are saying things like "the series will never be the same".The fandom has to stop being so negative.It's hilarious when someone sends Thomas a hate letter he just snaps it like Thanos writes a comeback or just something like "Why do think yada yada yada happened". Anyways,no hate he is not doing anything wrong.Have a good day

[@inplane9970]

@@user-qp9wt1qy9l I'm not throwing unnecessary shade at Astruc, but it speaks volumes when the entirely of S2 Chloe was written by someone else on the development team while Astruc was away and was instantly retconned the moment S3 started. The introduction of Zoe made things even worse, adding absolutely nothing to the show. Shes literally just Chloe, but bland. Theres just so many issues with how Chloe was treated in S3 too, namely how Marinette straight up neglected Chloe and left her in the dark like she does with Chat Noir and then blames Chlor for it? Like she knows Chloe has neglect and abandonment issues from her parents, but chooses to do the same thing to her for extremely selfish reasons.

[@theonethatlovescartoons3196]

My biggest problem with the show is that adrien doesn't get much, marinette is way overused as a character even though adrien is more interesting then she is and has more stuff going on, he got his own episode until season 4 episode 2 so yeh we waited 5 years for an adrien episode

[@noorbohamad5796]

Marinette is WAY OVERHATED

[@PeeperSnail]

I honest to God don’t get why there’s people in the comments section trying to convince others that Astruc was always on board with the Chloe redemption arc. I can only assume anyone who thinks this lives in blissful ignorance of the way Astruc has acted for years on Twitter. Whenever anyone asks him about Chloe he absolutely flips his shj1t. He’s got a reputation for blocking fans whenever they ask him questions about that aborted arc, or criticize his handling of it in any way. Nobody acts that way about something that they’re writing freely and willfully. It’s obvious Chloe’s redemption arc in Season 2 was someone else’s idea and he was not on board.

[@marsnia1803]

Im still pissed how they destroyed Chloe’s development

[@sarahemilywhite]

Same! UGH!

[@arash.a2358]

Chloe sucks

[@sarahemilywhite]

@@arash.a2358 you can have your opinion. But sorry to disagree

[@margini6795]

Everyone is. Everyone is

[@-Desire]

The little winks at 9:53 are so cute! Scratch that all your little interactions with Isabella are so cute! I can tell you what went wrong with me and this show. The fact that the main advertisement for this show at the beginning was the superhero identities thing but after Chat Blanc (which was heavily advertised in my country as them finally knowing their identities, was a wonderful episode tho) I realized that the show goes around in circles with no advancement in the main plot and after the S3 finale I mentally checked out. So now I just watch reviews of the show because I still somewhat care, also MariChat is the best ship out of that damned love square.

[@anaphchan6783]

1. Yasss Marichat is superior 2.I’m the same way as you but I checked out after the Special movies came out.

[@Zweshi_x]

The movies are actual dog water. Also I love MariChat!

[@SliferStreaming]

Cat blanc was a time travel what-if episode, not really part of the main timeline lol

[@-Desire]

@@SliferStreaming it wasn't advertised as such where I live tho

[@SliferStreaming]

@@-Desire well that's just bad advertising.

[@palomin]

I always found Marinette annoying because all her personality was her crush on Adrien and how obsessed or clumsy she was, and when she turned into Ladybug the rules somehow didn't apply to her. And I hate that the writers slowly started making the show just about her when it should be the adventures of ladybug and Cat Noir. I was really into the show in the beginning but then they wrote chloe horribly wrong and the plot started making no sense, so no I just watche ir casually or when I'm bored.

[@Khae_rZ]

Honestly, the show must have been better if they focused more on how to deal with negative emotions rather than the complicated love square. In the series, it shows that these negative emotions can be used by someone evil and the superheroes just have to magically stop the control on the negative emotions by Hawkmoth but never got to deal with the negative emotions, the people who got akumatized just forgets what happens and now in season 4, Ladybug gives lucky charms to prevent them from being controlled by Shadowmoth but that didn't stop them still being controlled by their own negative emotions that back then was the cause of reakumatizations. It would be nice seeing them questioning "why do we have negative emotions?", "how do we respond to these negative emotions?" and etc. And the heroes also applying what they have learned on 'why that certain person got akumatized?' in their own lives.

[@dariam3106]

It would give the show an actual meaning that is actually positive. Cause they portray meanings like stalking is romanticized, learning from mistakes isn’t necessary, and so on. That and it would fit in so perfectly with the show!

[@alyssapinon9670]

Yes! That’s what drew me to the show in the first place. I thought it was a more light hearted kid friendly version of the Babadook which I was a huge fan of as a teenager

[@mixmatched221]

in a nutshell: they all need therapy lmao

[@FriendlyHamroll]

Funnily enough, the writers were too lazy and cheap to create new villains so they made hawkcock make super akumas which can go through the charm magic thing so that whole thing was for nothing. He's akumatizing all the same characters with the same designs and names. He was able to do it literally just because he clenched a bit and really wanted it.

[@LetsSaboogi]

I truly thought that was the theme that they were going for when I was younger and I was SO there for it. It sucks that they never did anything with it. Such a strong theme staring them right in the face that went nowhere.

[@zexal5499]

Ah yes the show where the main character is a literal stalker

[@RenegadeStriker7]

Mirai Nikki cough cough

[@Zweshi_x]

@@RenegadeStriker7 Except Mirai Nikki showed that the stalking was bad through Yuki's, and other characters', discomfort and concern. Miraculous does none of that, from what I remember. Plus the writing is better, characters and plotwise.

[@kaykeunil]

@@Zweshi_x also didn’t mirai nikki include murder, which I feel is definitely a different category. U can’t really compare a death battle royale to miraculous. Different kinds of stalking, different settings. Both kinds suck for similar but also different reasons, although like u said mirai nikki is written way better

[@heaventoearth_]

@@Zweshi_x at the end of simpleman (s4ep19 I think?) Marinette realised that some of her actions are just bad and unhealthy. And since the writers have suddenly ramped up the character development this season, I don't think that they'll ignore that last bit of the episode. But then again, only time will tell.

[@xquenda275]

Essentially, 2 simps simp for each other but they wear a fancy outfit so they don’t know they’re simping for eachother

[@Justanotherqueer7476]

And the best explanation for Miraculous goes to……… this comment!!!

[@freshoffthehook904]

The show is a lot less impressive when you realize they took 1/2 the episode premises straight from the fanfiction community but with worse execution. For instance, Chat blanc fanfic was around since season 1.

[@marions.3657]

The fandom is self sufficiant, the only thing carrying the fandom is the fancontent

[@d3v934]

Miraculous: This is a kid's show! Also miraculous: Ah! The main character is stalking the side character, and knows every detail about him, from his shoe-size and his schedule. How cute, hilarious, not a bad example for children, and not straight up criminal!

[@noorbohamad5796]

Oh so This IS a show for kids

[@noorbohamad5796]

And not straight up HARMLESS FICTION FOR KIDS

[@dspace4514]

Honestly, at this point I'm just watching it for the new transformations and what the fandom will cook up because you know a show is bad when the fanfics are 100 times better

[@violetartist2400]

FACTS! I had to stop watching after mid season 2 because I physically couldn't continue....but I really like the premise, the characters & their potential. Plus the lore is really good. So fanfic it is :P

[@sunspotmill1291]

@@violetartist2400 The fist two seasons weren't that bad. Season 3 was where it jumped the shark

[@valeriegrant4335]

Honestly this show is guilty pleasure for me at this point. I’ve learned to not care about a lot of things, especially with the ships, but I do like to focus on the background characters and leave the main ones alone. Marc and Nathaniel and Luka are probably my favorites and I will continue to watch the show for only them.

[@ronniered]

Agreed 100%!! Those 3 are also my favourite of the entire show!!😭😭

[@nanalove3819]

I may be unpopular on this one, but I think that having Chloé becoming a villain again *could* have been interesting. If only it was written well. Imagining a character who does her best to be good, to improve, but the "heroes" always refer to her past, exclude her, to the point that all her efforts seem pointless. So she decided that instead, she will stop Hawkmoth in her own way, even if it is not a moral way and that she has to crush the heroes to do that (either by not working with them, or by throwing them away in some plan to defeat the villain). It could be interesting. But no. They kinda implies that Marinette's action is a cause for her becoming evil again, but they never explore that and Marinette is never held responsible for that. Because we can't say anything bad about Marinette in this show, right?

[@miss_chelles1338]

I know right? 😒😂 Also I like ur intake. Yours is the only idea I can get behind as to why Chloe would become evil again.

[@myrla9745]

Marinette didn't do anything wrong wdym? "OMG she chose Kagami instead of Chloé what a b*tch"

[@nanalove3819]

@@myrla9745 she did for selfish reasons so yeah, she did something wrong. She does a lot of selfish stuff actually, but anyway.

[@noorbohamad5796]

@@nanalove3819you literally can and did already say bad stuff about Marinette just about everyone just loves to hate her

[@noorbohamad5796]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@nanalove3819she did cause she’s smart so yeah she did something right like just about every single episode she does a lot of smart and right stuff actually but anyway she’s clearly overhated

[@craftyourfancymore]

I also assumed that skin-tight superhero outfits are easier to animate (no flapping fabric to try and make behave realistically) (also, their hair doesn't seem to move much either, most likely also an easier-to-animate thing)

[@_narci149_4]

Damn, brought me back to my days in the fandom, back during the first 2 seasons

[@Isaangie]

Same 🤣

[@artsykawaiigal7172]

Yes before all the trend watchers came along sabotaged the fandom made it even worse sexualising all of them and saying a character is a predator 😭

[@thirtyonepigeons9539]

Sameeee! I started watching it around 2017 or late 2016 after finding a ML video and randomly decided to watch it I believe. I watched some of the episodes on KZbin and then I couldn’t find the rest of the episodes on here, so I stopped watching it pretty early (probably only watch a bit of season 1 and a sprinkle of season 2). I also used to watch reaction videos about the eps which I would watch to fill in with what happened with the eps I missed 🤣 I didn’t know that there were sites/apps to watch shows for free so I went through all of that just to get an idea of what was going on. Even so, I absolutely loved it and thought it was so cute ☺️ But myyy gosh I’ve been trying to remember the name of this reactor I watched the most. She sounded young (Like a teen) and her profile picture had a white background with a pic of something in the front. Her username was ML related…that might not be useful but the day that I find her channel, it will make my day :)

[@kirbybie]

Luka and Kagami deserves so much better than what they got. Adrien didn’t appreciate Kagami or acknowledge her growth and Luka has literally never done anything wrong like, he is always doing the most for Marinette in return for absolutely nothing.

[@noorbohamad5796]

Oh so Adrien didn’t ever really belong with Kagami and Marienette does not owe Luka anything ever

[@michaelestival9875]

Ah, Miraculous Ladybug, where the greatest villain of all is the status quo. Seriously, since they're apparently planning 7 total seasons (so far), 2 theatrical movies, and 3 more of these World Heroes specials, I don't think they really CAN change up too much. Hawkmoth has to stay the villain, Ladybug and Cat Noir can't find out about each other, nothing can really progress. Especially, since these specials and movies are probably being worked on by different teams, so they have to kind of keep things consistent. I feel like they keep writing this show like a serialized drama when it kind of WANTS to be a evergreen property, where characters don't change much. I think the best comparison I can think of is 90s Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. It feels like they want this show to have the same feel as 90s TMNT, with the same overarching villains and characters that are memorable but consistent (and toyetic!). The problem there is, Shredder and Krang's goal of world domination is broad enough that you can do a lot of different things with it. You can give him a giant mech, or a weather machine, or mind control rays and it all furthers his broad goals. But, with Hawkmoth, there is only ONE path, getting the two main Miraculous, and ONE specific goal, to heal his wife. Which mean, this show comes across as more repetitive than a toy cartoon from the 90s. If the show had OTHER villains this wouldn't be such a problem, but ALL the other villains come from Hawkmoth. Which is similar to the ooze-mutants from TMNT. And having such a specific goal with Hawkmoth means we...kind of want to see the payoff. We want to see what happens we he gets what he wants. And we probably won't for a long time. I have to wonder if another reason for that is because none of the other ZAGToon shows really seem to be catching on. I liked Zak Storm, and it's vast world, but I don't think it really caught on. Power Players was...kind of shallow. And Ghost Force feels like a attempt to make a Ladybug show "for boys"...but it's pretty shallow, too. It's kind of weird that they decided to NOT have the ghosts possess the classmates since the classmates doubling as the bad guys each week actually helps flesh things out in Ladybug a little. Basically, they want to keep Ladybug the same, because they don't want to kill their golden goose. This is the only show of theirs that's taking off. They don't want to change something and risk ruining the magic (even though OTHER magical girl shows change up the villain just fine, just saying). Oh, and then there's the other big problem. The episode order. And I'm not sure it's just Netflix screwing things up. Minor spoilers, but it seems like some episodes of Season 4 are airing out of order EVERYWHERE. There's a characters showing up before they make their first appearance, and here in America, a important plot point aired out of order. I think these episodes are just being made out of order and being put out whenever they get done first. It's a problem. I do think this show has some good ideas, though. The costume designs are consistently pretty solid. And I think the idea to make the classmates the villains was a great idea. It helps make them feel like they're getting SOME characterization and depth. Then making them heroes, too, and we get to see these former "villains" redeem themselves...that's low-key pretty clever. But...now there's Season 4. I don't want to spoil much, but...there's backsliding. Major backsliding. It hurts to watch. Can't wait to see your reaction that this.

[@michaelestival9875]

@vibe central Spoilers for Season 4 below for anyone who isn't caught up. (With some spoilers with upcoming episode titles) Mostly, I feel like there's a effort to revert some of the characters back to their Season 1 personalities and remove some of the plot progression we got in Seasons 2 and 3, somewhat. Mostly...Chloe, but I'll admit there's other stuff going on with her, too. (If you don't know, it seems like the creator of the show has...some sort of grudge with the character. It's weird, and it's probably going to come up in NL's Season 4/Chloe video he mentions, eventually). But, with Nino (and maybe eventually even Alya) being banned from having Miraculous again, I don't think it's JUST Chloe. I think they want to send the show back to basics a bit. Maybe with no other heroes other than Ladybug and Cat Noir. Or maybe just fewer other heroes? We'll see by the finale. Also, undoing the change in the romance dynamic in the first two episodes of season 4. Luka and Kagami could have been a MUCH bigger part of Season 4...but they wanted to keep the dynamic between all the characters the same, so that development got reverted back by the status quo, too. And then...there's the Magical Charms. (Which are REALLY pretty, I'd probably buy them for a $1). They're...basically useless now? Shadowmoth can basically just override them by trying REAL hard. So...that plot point got reverted back to the status quo, too. There's also some speculation that the finale will just be..."The Last Attack of SHADOWmoth"...as in, he might get reverted back to his Hawkmoth form. But...that's just fan speculation right now. There's also Hawkmoth just...forgetting who the MIraculous holders were from the Season 3 finale, because that would change things too much? I honestly wonder if I either missed a episode, or some throw away line or something. Shadowmoth...should know who ALL the Miraculous holders are, they transformed right in front of him? Seriously, did I miss something that was in the original French since I've been watching the English dub? All of this kind of makes me think the writers or creators want the show to revert back to the way it was back in Season 1. Chloe's the bully again. Anyone can be Akumatized again. It's just...backsliding on all the progression and characterization we've gotten so far. (I might be jumping the gun on them getting rid of the other heroes/Miraculous Temps and the return of Hawkmoth, but...we'll see.) And, if you combine all that with the show just...REFUSING to wrap up Hawkmoth's story arc and maybe moving on to a new villain and it just feels like we're going backwards instead of forwards. Now, I'll admit, there's three things which prove I might be wrong. 1) Alya still knows Ladybug's identity now. 2) So does Luka. And 3) They're still introducing new hero forms for the cast. These are all major developments. But..at this point, I'm mostly wondering when they'll undo that too. I feel like they so badly don't want to move the show forwards that they're basically moving pieces on the board backward. It's just frustrating to see, to me. And, I'll admit, again, some of this is just me speculating on what MIGHT happen...but I feel like it's a educated guess, given what the writers have done so far this season.

[@feemij.76]

I have never agreed more on anything about this show than this comment. S4 is the reason I am giving up on being updated. Will finish whenever there is something worth watching.

[@Dave102693]

Where can I watch the other ZAGtoons?

[@moonliqx2211]

7 seasons???? Hell nah there dragging this out

[@cloudcirrus5515]

@@michaelestival9875 shadowmoth knows who the holders are- check optigami

[@cottoncandyhairamitystan8389]

I did some math for Desperada ( the snakey boi Adrien episode ) and at most Adrien was in a time loop of 89 day 23 hours and 25 minutes. Probably less considering that is the maximum for 25913 times in a five minute time loop, but he was in there for MONTHS! That’s dedication right there

[@isaaaa7563]

my mans needs atleast 5 years of therapy

[@NevaRthelesser]

May I ask, if the time limit is only 5 minutes... How was he stuck in a time loop for 89 days 23 hours and 25 minutes?

[@areeba7045]

@@NevaRthelesser he kept going back and trying again lol

[@cheap2402]

They really just gloss over that fact in the shoe when it's just as traumatizing as seeing chat blanc or sum.

[@ellana5963]

I think it's sad that Adrien get so little development when he has a litteral perfect set up for character growth. He has two basic drives, being normal/happy/himself/making friend, and make his father proud of him ; and those basic drives often conflict with each other because Gabriel Agreste isn't easy to please, and tends to be over-protective and controlling. This conflict is partly solved by Adrien being Chat Noir, which allows him a space to be himself without risquing to disapoint his father. But getting what you want without paying the price rarely works out on the long term, in good stories, so of course it should come back to bite him at some point. Which, with HawkMoth being his father, will almost certainly happen. This is a really good set up for a character. His internal conflict coincides completly with the main plot point, they even amplify each other. Having character development echo and resonnate with plot points is exactly what you should do. Except that they have done nothing interesting with it. Except maybe for the whole Chat Blanc episode. And that is a shame!

[@masterofthecourt5435]

Thomas Astruc is one weird guy, the last thing I knew abt him was him defending simpleman saying that only haters do not understand the complex of that episode ._.

[@mercury9641]

wat._.

[@carolinpurayidom4570]

I understand it but it is boring

[@miss_chelles1338]

I mean.... it was hilarious but like- bruh 💀

[@shori200]

I am pissed when they completely throw chloe's character development away, like she was seriously becoming a cooler character and was on the road to my favorite but then they threw it away.

[@saraisaza5697]

10:02 felt a lot like "mommy? Sorry, Mommy? Sorry, Mommy? Sorry"

[@MigetsuNewgate]

The fact that your making this is enough to make me feel hype i love this show

[@realityep7511]

Marinettte scares me. she is horrifying actually. she stalks Adrian, she is protective over him EVER THOUGH THEY AREN'T EVEN DATING! SHE USES HER POWERS FOR SELFISH REASONS.

[@IcecreamCat23]

0:22 I can't stop replaying him getting hit by a Tikki plush with the squeak sound effect