What Happened to the ORIGINAL Episode IX

[@elinoirsmythe224]

I really like this breakdown of DOTF versus TROS. You made a really good point (which most other channels have skipped over) is the fact that the draft of DOTF was exactly that - a draft - so there's no guarantee that if DOTF had been made instead of ROTS that it would actually be anything like the version that was leaked. I think all your criticisms of DOTF are pretty fair and I wouldn't say it's a GOOD script. However, I do think it was better than what we ended up with in TROS. What I like about the DOTF draft is that Trevorrow just picked up the shattered remains of TLJ and ran with them, rather than backtracking and retconning and deus ex machina-ing everything. For better or worse, Trevorrow's draft script recognised that decisions needed to be made and stuck by, even if they weren't very good, so that the film could move on in some direction. Were they the best decisions, no. Were they even good decisions, arguable. But at least he had a direction, which is something the trilogy as a whole totally lacked. Maybe earlier drafts of TROS would have been like that too, before interference from high up, but as you rightly point out we don't know one way or the other. This is turning into an obnoxiously long comment but basically, I think you're right that DOTF is probably given more credit than it's due just because TROS is SO awful, but as the leaked draft stands I still agree with most of the other commentators who argue that DOTF would have been the better option. Thanks for making this vid - really enjoyed it!

[@TheFirstOkiro]

That’s why I’m curious if TROS always started out how it is or was it different

[@thefilmwhisperer1105]

@@TheFirstOkiro TROS filmed from August 2018 to February 2019. Then two weeks of reshoots in July 2019. Then a BUNCH of last minute reshoots from September to Mid-October (although some other rumor mills said "into early November"). It is *confirmed* that much "on-set editing" took place during filming, even during principle photography, because they did shoot A LOT of footage. Here are at least 3 things that are *CONFIRMED* to be reshoots on TROS (by someone who collaborated in editing it) 1. Luke & Rey on Ach-To. Apparently just Luke's appearance was a reshoot, hence why he looks like *the Dude* from "The Big Lebowski". And I think his force ghost at the end. 2. Rey's first interaction with Leia in the film was a reshoot, which I guess includes the opening "training" sequence? (Lol yeah, because she NEEDS training...) 3. Poe and Finn's interaction when the Falcon is on fire. *Now...as for the rumor mills:* The reshoots certainly did change A LOT in the film. The real villain was going to be Matt Smith as the "Son of Mortis". He was ANNOUNCED to be in the film when casting was made official, but there was nothing officially clear about his part. He ultimately didn't appear in the movie. And I'm guessing he's under a confidentially agreement. (*My thoughts* ...I think various scenes which REVOLVE around his character were filmed, but then his role and scenes ultimately weren't filmed when they "decided to go in another direction" There was also going to be a reveal that Finn is force-sensitive, and can use the force. It is allegedly supposed to be what he kept trying to tell Rey (but never did). His reason for knowing which tower to attack was supposed to be because of the Force (in the film he just says "a feeling" when asked how he knows). Lol, okay, Finn, let's go on YOUR hunch. He was supposed to have used The Force to open an important door or something. Those are the rumors that I find to be most credible, personally. But I guess we might not know the real truth for a long time, if ever. Disney/Lucasfilm certainly are good at keeping most details a secret. I am aware that "The Force Awakens" also went through a similar post-production makeover and reshoots. I know Mauler pointed out the insane amount of ADR on Episode 7, haha.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

@@thefilmwhisperer1105 oh now that is very interesting! I heard a little bit about the re-shoots, even Pablo Hidalgo confirmed that much of the opening wasn’t the same. I knew Adam was doing ADR all the way up to late November according to him. As for TFA, that film definitely went through a lot of editing. One day if I have the time I would love to dive into that mess and see what I could find. I know Leia had this whole subplot that was cut but the details are fuzzy TROS on the other hand is a fun mystery for me. I always love hearing about all these little production changes! Thanks for reaching out! I really appreciate it

[@thefilmwhisperer1105]

@@TheFirstOkiro just realized something got chomped up in my original reply to you...GRRR I hate when that happens. It should be edited/corrected now (with a little tid-bit added).

[@TheFirstOkiro]

@@thefilmwhisperer1105 ahhhh Mr. Smith!!! I forgot about him

[@bellaj5576]

I think ultimately the lesson we can take from every version of episode ix is that Finn deserved bigger and better

[@futureboy314]

Even if you weren’t slamming down amazing points left and right, the editing alone on this is so good. Subscribed

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Thanks Jeremy!

[@whattwowhat]

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them *the first time*." Going over the same 'redemption plea' again and again in any of the scripts just causes stagnation.

[@Raleyg]

Had it been up to me, these are the changes I would have made to Duel of the Fates: Cut out Mortis and have the entire final battle be at Coruscant. Cut the grey Jedi nonsense. Cut the romantic subplot between Rey and Poe, and instead use that time to give Rey, Finn and Poe ACTUAL character arcs. Change the Brute Troopers to Dark Troopers, not the ones in the Mandalorian but actual people who the First Order has literally brainwashed as a final solution to quell disloyalty, as a way to better integrate the Stormtrooper rebellion. Have Kylo stay evil and be the final antagonist of the series, and give him a conversation with Anakin's Force ghost where Anakin points out that while he joined the Dark Side in order to save the people he loved, Kylo joined the Dark Side mostly out of spite, and that's the difference between them. Have Luke act more like he did in the Mandalorian and the Rise of Skywalker. Have Rey struggle throughout the movie, and only beat Kylo by outsmarting him, like how Obi-Wan beat Anakin. Start the movie with a funeral for Leia, and end it with Rey and Finn opening a new Jedi academy.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

I would have definitely liked all of that. I do know that according to sources, originally the final battle was fought on Coruscant and inside a giant hanger. It seems like GG Ontario initially had the right idea but somewhere in between then and the film regards, things got jumbled. Who knows as to why

[@avanishdutta2658]

Are you implying start the movie with an image of death, and end it with an image of life. Like george lucas, like poetry?

[@Raleyg]

@@avanishdutta2658 That's a good idea, but honestly no. I was just thinking of a respectful and fitting way of dealing with Carrie Fisher's death, and thought the two of them opening a new academy was a good idea

[@avanishdutta2658]

@@Raleyg Ok, yeah you're right. Carrie was special to many fans. She needed a fitting closure to her character. Good one.

[@Raleyg]

@@avanishdutta2658 Figured it would be better to start the movie with it rather than using deleted and half-filmed scenes

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Personally I’m split. Both DOTF and TROS have some big things that I wish were different but there are aspects I like about both. Either way, I think Colin and JJ both did their best with the circumstances they were in. Tho more Babu Frik is always a plus

[@wise1355]

I always thought Rey's arc culmination in the first draft of DOTF felt like a copy of Anakin's overall arc, with her being the key to the future, a reason why I think the nobody twist is more derivative than some make it out to be. As a side note, I was wondering if you'd be interested in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/raSbZpqPoJaspq8 It also explores the development of the ST, though it is quite long and I realise you're busy. Take care :D

[@mollymcallister1671]

Basically it all comes down to, it's merits as an individual movie and/or to greater Star Wars canon aside, TLJ really screwed the pooch as far as leaving a coherent platform for the sequal trilogy to be built upon.

[@gregr3720]

If they had started with some ideas and then a good coherent story, that would have helped big time. They made their own circumstances.

[@oldman5247]

The original script with The Duel of the Fates even with it problems. Was probably the one movie in the sequel trilogy. That would've made me really like the trilogy. Despite the fact it doesn't have George Lucas's touch. The way the trilogy ended up. Makes me wish George Lucas never sold the intellectual property to Disney. Even if we did get some good things out of the deal.

[@ryanbarth6691]

Someone made it into a comic

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

And believe it or not, Duel of the Fates was not the movie Trevorrow was going to make. I remember a video of Colin at a film festival, (I can't remember if it was around Jurassic World or Book of Henry) but he spoke of a very very very different episode that involved Rey, Kylo Ren, Leia, Luke and Snoke in a big ways. Very different from Duel of the Fates

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

My understanding is the main reason Trevorrow ultimately left was because Carrie Fisher dying effed that script up. So he has proposed they edit TLJ (it was not yet releases) to keep Luke alive, so he could have Leia's part in the story. They (which I think is Kennedy the patriarchy killer) refused. So he basically said the script is not salvageable then. I imagine he saw many of the issues it had and those were already tough to solve. It was hard enough trying make a satisfying conclusion with the state the trilogy was in and that was the last straw.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Honestly I think it comes down to likely Colin realizing killing off the two biggest characters of the sequel trilogy, Snoke and Luke, was an astronomical mistake and left all of the characters in limbo Every single version of episode nine basically tries to find a way to substitute their loss and fails to do so without making the trilogy just feel disjointed. It’s really impossible to have a cohesive Trilogy after made a movie that goes completely in the opposite direction and sets nothing up

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

@@TheFirstOkiro for sure. Regardless of what the final straw was, it seems clear that eventually he just realized this thing couldn't be salvaged, especially not with various parties in Disney and Lucasfilm requiring him to shove in this or that. I felt bad for JJ walking into it. I think he knew the same but just gritted his teeth and tried to do the best he could.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

@@DavidSmith-mt7tb From what it sounds like, the big difference between JJ and Colin in terms of what they wanted to do with the last movie was that Colin at first was gonna follow up what Rian did but realized TLJ was basically broken in terms of trilogy structure JJ seems to have wanted to finish what he started, mainly with characters like Rey, Finn and Kylo but either because of Disney or Lucasfilm, they didn’t like his direction either and that’s what lead us to IX, which feels like the physical definition of a compromise. I think the main reason JJ came back was because they got him out of his terrible contract with Paramont and probably the reason why he never left is because he’s a rather diplomatic person and likely leaving like Colin would’ve likely destroy the trajectory for the film and made him an enemy of Disney

[@TheGamingPolitician]

As someone who LOVED TFA and TLJ TRoS hurt my soul. I also wanna add that the comment on TLJ “switching continuities” from TFA is exactly what ESB did from ANH. I don’t care if George Lucas signed off on it, it still applies. Also Rey being called a “wise jedi” in DotF that’s the accomplishment of her completing her arc. Going from a nobody to the literal solver of the Jedi Sith conflict IS AN ARC! Also I totally think there was plenty to do story wise with episode 9 after 8. Seeing these characters arcs completed with the conflict still going on sounds like something no other trilogy has ever done and sounds amazing. Poe making tough decisions in the heat of battle showing his growth as a leader, Kylos arc ending in a grey zone leaving it open to interpretation as to wether he died good or evil and having that “grey zone death” tie into the birth of the “grey Jedi” and of course Finn giving a big speech to all the stormtroopers that ends up turning the First Orders forces against itself. I wish I could’ve directed episode 9 and picked and choosed what I liked from the script and what I would’ve done differently

[@seandoyle573]

It's a shame that not one person at Disney thought a single director for the whole trilogy would be a sensible idea. Even if they flop, you at least have a decent chance at continuity, and blame would then lie at the feet of Kennedy and either JJ or Johnson, as opposed to this clusterfuck we got dealt.

[@Classicfanforever]

Or at least have one person write the whole trilogy and have three different directors go at it, since the original trilogy had done it.

[@philippealain-art]

One person could be a better idea but it wouldn't have been enough. It's mostly Abrams' responsibility that screwed it up from the start, if he had continued alone would not have changed anything. In the first place it is certainly essential to have at least a global overall story, with a beginning, a middle and an end, the basis, but written by competent people who know, understand and respect Star Wars, not a hack who had already fucked up Star Trek from his 1st film and made it stupid. Kennedy should have kept her promise to put on screen the story Lucas had written.

[@tris421]

Should have just given it to Nolan with Lucas as executive producer. Given them free reign. But no they needed focus groups.

[@tris421]

@@philippealain-art I too blame Abrams for all this. He fucked up the universe from the start.

[@philippealain-art]

@@tris421, no, not nolan. I hate what he did to Batman, besides, he doesn't know how to shoot action scenes. Favreau has proven his value on Iron Man and Mandalorian. They had a good story, Lucas's Ep 7-9 story, they just needed at least one good writer to develop it. But not everyone is George Lucas. It is certainly easier to write with several persons, the important thing is to take competent people. And the best way is to work with the one who knows Star Wars best, the one who created it.

[@LucyWest370]

We all know the original episode IX was ‘from his nap’

[@ewalsh7682]

A mix of TROS and DOTF could have worked really well for 9. Trevorrow, Abrams, Terrio and Conolly had an absolute trial to try and write this and I respect them all for going in and taking swings, even if they missed

[@TheFirstOkiro]

I actually respect both writing groups. They posted a lot of shit, Star Trek, jurassic World. But JJ and Colin have proved that they really do love what they do and they actually do love what they do and they both love Star Wars. I think they tried to do their best with what they had to work with and I honestly believe they get far too much hate in this fandom

[@ewalsh7682]

The First Okiro Couldn’t agree me. I always laugh when someone calls them “hacks”, as if that random internet person could do better

[@JohnFourtyTwo]

I like the way you presented everything unlike the other channels that simply ranted on about how great DOTF was but didn't provide any substance to backup their opinion. It looks like we were going to get a can of worms regardless of which script they used since the previous movie was such a derailment to the story. I would like to know what the final version of DOTF script would've been like because this first rough draft is very rough indeed and I'm sure it would've changed quite a bit had they stayed with it. Even George Lucas's first hand-written draft of The Star Wars is nothing like final script for Star Wars. Awesome video and sorry for not replying sooner, some of these notifications make it through and some don't, this one happened to be in the suggested list instead, so I immediately checked it out because I really enjoy what you do here. 😊👍✨

[@Jiub_SN]

The previous movie was not a derailment, it was a continuation in a direction the fans didn't expect. There were ideas of where things would go, but there was never a plan. JJ fully expected to have been done with the trilogy after TFA, and in classic JJ fashion he left inconsistencies, mysteries that could have any answer so as not to "constrain" the next writer (in reality he just thinks mysteries with no planned answer is good writing, watch his ted talk) and no real direction for the film. Luke, for example, what was JJ going for? There is no reason Luke would abandon the people he cares about, how would that be explained? Why were Rey's parents not foreshadowed by JJ if that was his plan? And no, Johnson's rebel of them being nobody was not the issue there. The villain who you should already assume is unreliable was saying it, that's an easy out to make whatever he wanted come true. Why did he choose to redeem Kylo and bring back Palpatine? Yes Johnson killed snoke, but the villain (Kylo) was already there and in his original plan was SUPPOSED to be the main villain by the end. Point being, JJ had just as much of a part in the sequels being bad as Johnson did

[@Jiub_SN]

In my eyes, the sequels went like this: You pay JJ to build a house so that you can pay someone else to paint it and then finally pay someone to furnish it so that you can live in it. JJ agrees, and pours concrete foundations and then leaves. It's a good foundation for as good as a concrete foundation can be, but it isn't what you wanted. In the end it theoretically isn't a massive issue, just pay the next guy to finish construction and painting. Johnson comes along and rips up the foundation, builds the house, paints it, and then furnishes it just because he felt like it. It's ok, but you kind of liked the original foundation and you already paid the last guy who ends up being JJ. JJ comes and rebuilds, repaints and refurnishes the house but not entirely. Your house is there, but it's mismatched and ugly, and the layout doesn't make any sense. Maybe you would've liked the house with the original foundation, but in the end that doesn't really matter, as the second guy had to do all of that to finish the job of the first guy, and the third guy had to do something as he was already paid. Maybe he could've done a little bit to improve the house, but it wouldn't have been worth the money. You get the picture?

[@unseenphantomamvsytp2186]

Whichever script doesn't have Rey victim-blaming Finn I'll take over what we got. I swear I'm NOT just saying this to be dramatic I felt dead inside watching this film the only time I felt any emotion was when Chewie broke down after Leia died (and now all his friends from Ep 4 are gone) and the internal rage I felt when Rey kissed "Ben" It was the first time in my life I flipped off the movie theater screen. I knew Kylo would be redeemed (Which I already didn't agree with) but that took it too far. They really did the impossible with this movie they made a mainline star wars movie boring.

[@knoxgordon9859]

So glad I just found your content! You're really good at storytelling and it's really nice to hear you just give your own perspective sometimes.

[@captaincosmo6157]

Luke - Chooses to redeem Darth Vader as he finds out he is his Father. What was Rey's reasoning for trying to redeem Kylo?

[@TheFirstOkiro]

If they were related, it would’ve made some sense As it is there is no explanation given which is even worse.

[@robwett1]

She fell in love with him because of Stockholm syndrome? Torture is her turn-on? Those are the only sorts of explanations that make sense based upon their interactions. Or did she do more than download his training (just going with the notion that this meshes with pre-Disney lore) when their minds were linked by Snoke-Palps? Did she also absorb all his memories and feelings too? So she wound up knowing him as well as she knew herself?

[@TheFirstOkiro]

@Katie Lewis No he didn’t. Daisy Ridley said that one of the origins for Rey had been a Kenobi, but that was changed before TFA. Daisy said that they were five origins on the table for Rey. JJ Himself has never actually said what he initially planned for her.

[@deazl666]

@@TheFirstOkiro The OT was about Luke; the PT was about Anakin; the ST was about ???, which is the fundamental problem. Rey and Ben should have been the twins of Luke and his wife because the reformed Jedi Order would have allowed marriages so as to avoid the galactic disaster that was Anakin and Padme. Han and Leia’s kid (or kids) would be a key supporting character. As far as villains go, Palpatine’s children seeking to redeem their father - with the help of the Dark Side, perhaps Darth Plageious - along with help from agents within the New Republic and a previously unknown military threat from outside the known galaxy, would be a good place to start. The trilogy can evolve from there…

[@FixingDisneyStarWars]

This was an excellent mini-doc. Thanks for taking the time to make this! Very much enjoyed it :D

[@leonvalentine3748]

Unrelated to most of them is video, but we didn't get enough Fin. An interesting character concept that was just cast aside.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Preach yo

[@seanlynch9716]

So glad you included that robot chicken clip

[@IndustrialMagic]

I love Duel of the Fates. It would have wrapped this trilogy up in a much more coherent way. My full animated adaptation of the script: @

[@neiel1]

I’m curious what Rian Johnson’s concept was for how the 3rd film would follow TLJ, considering all of his story/character choices that made the 3rd film in the trilogy nearly impossible to write. How could he have been allowed to make that film, without an idea of what it would lead into? Did he really just not GAF?

[@user-fu7zf4ck9z]

Rian Johnson is a fucking moron and knew exactly what he was doing with TLJ

[@natbarmore]

"Nearly impossible" is a bit of an overstatement. Though I'm betting that Johnson's notions of where the next film would heavily involved Leia, which obviously became a big problem. But I came out of TLJ expecting Episode 9 to be the story of Rey finding her way without a mentor, Finn either leading or just being the early signs of a stormtrooper rebellion, Poe stepping into a leadership role due to Leia dying between 8 and 9, and Kylo and his knights being the primary antagonists. Plot- and theme-wise, friends and I figured that it would be about what happens when Force users start turning up all over the place-including among the downtrodden and slaves-and there is neither a Jedi Order nor a Sith order to train them or shape their worldviews or control them. Thus directly countering Kylo's idea that he is great because of his parentage, and instead showing that what makes people great is their choices-with "can use the Force" being the science fictional representation of "greatness". Meanwhile, Kylo was an interesting inversion of previous Star Wars villains. Vader was convinced he couldn't be redeemed, but given the opportunity and impetus by Luke, he chose to embrace it. Maul and Sidious and Palpatine and weren't interested in any kind of redemption-they were actively makevalent forces. None of the heroes had any attachment to Maul or Sidious or Snoke, so we didn't care what happened to them. Only Kylo was someone that the heroes and the audience /wanted/ to redeem, and wasn't under someone else's thumb so he truly had free will in the matter-and he rejected it. That sets up a really interesting dynamic, with Rey-like Luke with Vader-being the one person who believes Kylo could be redeemed, but the audience knowing that she was wrong. There's some powerful storytelling in a hero who is convinced the villain isn't all bad, but he he villain actually /is/ all-bad, and has consciously chosen that.

[@natbarmore]

In short: TLJ set up what could've been the most interesting Star Wars movie to date, and one that, like Kylo Ren as a character, challenged some of the story assumptions of Star Wars rather than being a rehash. It might notve worked-it might've been awful-but we'll never know because the Episode 9 we got didn't even /try/ to build on TLJ. Instead of being a sequel to eps 7 & 8, it was a sequel to eps 2, 3, & 6.

[@damkylan3]

​@@natbarmore Not to mention the growing antipathy between Hux and Kylo, which could have finally boiled over and led to a schism within the First Order between those loyal to Kylo's new regime and those still loyal to Snoke led by Hux, both playing on the idea of fascist movements falling apart once the leader is gone, and being an unexpected reason for the Resistance to gain a foothold in the battle against them as they gain new support after news of Luke's return to heroism spreads throughout the galaxy. Kylo's supposed glorious moment of triumph from TLJ thus becomes a sad joke as his leadership fizzles out and he becomes the reason the First Order fails. Or hell, let's say Palpatine coming back was an order from the top. It's all too easy to make it fit in with the established story while not overpowering Kylo completely. Have him be a Force wraith of sorts, refusing to fade away and trying to influence Kylo to set up a Sith ritual that will secretly allow Palpatine to possess him and be reborn. The reason he appears now is because Snoke's immense power blocked Kylo's spiritual connection to the Force to keep him subservient to him, thus explaining why no Force ghosts ever appeared to him before. So throughout the movie, Luke, Obi Wan, and Anakin can also appear to Kylo and entreat him to return, but he refuses every time. The final battle between Rey and Kylo is thus an appropriate battle of generations. TLJ had big problems, no doubt. But it did NOT leave the writers with nothing to do. I honestly think SW fans are more married to the status quo of SW than they like to think. If there isn't a big Emperor villain around, the plot is just utterly lost according to them.

[@neiel1]

@@damkylan3 @nat barmore I appreciate these ideas. If Disney hadn’t burned the bridge with Lucas, he and Filoni could have consulted in the writing of Ep 8 (and 7 & 9) to to correct all of the inconsistencies and absurdities (and bad ideas) that broke from the established galaxy/universe of 1 through 6.

[@gregr3720]

The entire Sequel Trilogy needed a complete rewrite. They would have needed some good ideas first. I get the impression that they wanted to end the Skywalker saga. Does anybody like Disney's new characters? Their trilogy added nothing but took a lot away from the O.T. Now they're making Star Wars for Disney+ Epic Fail to only have Disney's characters in Galaxy's Edge. Gimmicky concept about it being part of the Star Wars canon. If that's so, then why is Galaxy's Edge at Disneyland and Magic Kingdom the same? They should both be different. Same thing with the Galactic Starcruiser. There's no Vader, Luke, Han, Leia, etc. There's only Disney's unexciting characters. Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader.

[@yashaoftheflames8475]

I feel its impossible for any writer to have made episode 9 so good despite the first two movies before it. However, I think TROS could have been better than the film we have gotten.

[@Remix36720]

DOTF while not perfect is pretty much better by default for me for simply not bringing back Palpatine, since doing that for me undermined Anakins arc in the original six movies. I also liked the grey Jedi idea Waaaaaayyyyy more than the Rey Skywalker stuff at the end of Rise of Skywalker……

[@DarthPrime52]

I try not to put Duel of Fates on a pedestal and not think like think "this would have been a amazing ending and made the Sequel Trilogy all worth it!" There’s the things like the Rey Poe romance which immediately hit hard with how nonsense it was and made me yell "oh my god stop giving Rey love interests!" And there’s that weird Sith entity that that apparently has always existed for centuries that shows up teaches Ben Dark Side stuff and then gets killed off that has been mentioned or hinted at in this trilogy or anywhere else makes no sense and now that I’m thinking about it probably was only created because Trevorrow didn’t have Snoke to use. It’s like no matter what the Sequel Trilogy was going to be a mess since they decided the best way to make an interconnected trilogy was to make it a game of telephone or something.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Main problem really was TLJ I actually think Colin and JJ would’ve been a better match.

[@DarthPrime52]

@@TheFirstOkiro True TFA was an okay starting point but the TLJ didn’t really do anything to carry on form that. To me the point where the Sequel Trilogy starts to fall apart actually is in TFA and that’s when Starkiller Base was introduced. Like TFA had its story beats that were like ANH such as a young protagonist on a desert planet dreaming of leaving and a droid that has important intel the bad guys want BUT it still had its own things like the intel being Luke’s location and of course Finn the Stormtrooper deserter which as everyone has said had a lot of potential. But then Starkiller is introduced and it’s just an extra big planet-blower-upper gun it starts to really be ANH all the stuff about finding Luke now has to take a backseat. And then there’s how Starkiller is used which is wiping out the Republic’s capital and essential the New Republic in a very after thought kinda way just to get back to ragtag rebels against a big fascist state they hit the reset button too hard. Which they didn’t have to do it could have been at least in the first movie the Resistance off fighting a war with the First Order with the Republic not giving an F thus leaving it around to be explored in later films. Or even if it had to be destroyed TLJ could have exploded the Galaxy and the ramifications of the New Republic’s destruction but instead the first the thing the opening crawl tells us the First Order has conquered the Galaxy off screen in like an hour after Starkiller fired. Like it’s been said before but one of the biggest problems with the Sequel Trilogy is it’s lack of world building there’s just sense of what is at stake or how we went from the ROTJ to here. Rian Johnson said out right in interview with Hollywood Reporter I believe it was that he doesn’t care about world building what matters to him is engaging the audience moment-to-moment which is believable looking at the TLJ. And JJ Abrams well I’ve been half joking (maybe quarter joking really) that his movies had more world destroying in them.

[@volrathk]

The thing with Duel of The Fates is that it had the feeling of closure this trilogy needed, while fixing a lot of stuff without retconning everything. Colin knew that Kylo and Rey were weak from the audience point of view, that's why he made 2 separated arcs were they grown more powerful. Rey actually training with Luke and Kylo finding the sith teacher and absorving him fixed the "power level" problem for these characters. Finn had a closure leading the Stormtrooper rebellion. The Knights of Ren actually felt as treat (at least in the script), and Lando was introduced in a better way than just "General Lando". Luke hunting Kylo also makes more sense, since he says "see you around kid". And I actually think that Poe and Rey romance makes sense by the way they look at each other in TLJ. I get that Rey did not had a proper arc in this film, but she actually never had in the whole trilogy. By keeping her as nobody, you could keep the idea of "everybody is special". Mortis indeed could be better explained somehow, maybe something like Kylo wanting to "corrupt" the force itself through a ritual in Mortis Temple, or something like that. Or just remove Mortis and make then fight in the Jedi Temple, while the war rages. Disney just made mistake after mistake with this trilogy, desperate to make money without any compassion for this franchise.

[@wickdaline8668]

Now I've seen DOTF. From a certain point of view.

[@shaunm7924]

Thanks, Okiro. :)

[@OnlyOneKenobi]

Love your channel 👍🏼

[@alexlowe4442]

Now I’m pushing for a remake of black widow too This shows Disney has no idea what they’re doing

[@ewalsh7682]

Do you think the initial TROS script even featured Palpatine?

[@TheFirstOkiro]

No. I don’t think Palpatine was in TROS initially

[@ewalsh7682]

The First Okiro At first I would have said that he must have been, but your videos and others’ about TROS’ production have made me think he wasn’t

[@leonl1ons775]

I don't really like the sequels but I love this channel

[@MalenGarek]

finally a new video!

[@TheFirstOkiro]

I’m sorry it took so long!

[@MalenGarek]

Nah bro you good! Quality takes time!

[@whunt5533]

Your correct disney screwed the entire franchise personally I know it was done on purpose so they could reboot it and make it theirs. The effed the fans, the new actors, and for what money

[@GeeVanderplas]

Disney should have taken the time to develop a story with JJ, all the problems start from there. Each film maker has tried to do their own thing, and keep it interesting, but without a road map it was always gonna end up all over the place. JJ wanted (under Disney's instructions no doubt) to replicate the original trilogy, reinstate that status quo with the empire and rebellion and have similar characters and story beats. Rian Johnson tried to take the story away from that path and do something new for better or worse, but didn't think how it would all resolve. And Trevorrow and then JJ tried and failed to bring it all together again. I don't think you can blame any of the film makers, they did what they thought was right with what they were given. It is quite an achievement that we got a moderately enjoyable trilogy at all if you think about it.

[@mikerotonda6264]

I like the scene when Finn yells.....REYYYYYY!!!!

[@eddysandland58]

Mike I liked the other one when He Yells...... REYYYYYYYYYY!!! lol

[@lorenzoalistaire3257]

lol love the far cry clip u included

[@amarcellus1714]

The sequel trilogy still would have been a failure for the simple fact that the story should have never included the Jedi falling again and another Empire taking over. I'm know not everyone read the books and they consider the EU "fanfiction". That's fine, that's their opinion. But what the EU did right was how the new Jedi Order was established. I never expected Disney to copy the EU but doing something similar with a cohesive story would have been nice. Now we will never see a proper new jedi on screen. Unless by some miracle the next movies they make take place 200 years after rise of Skywalker and with a competent writer and director

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

Iger wanted to redo the OT with ep 7, which I think is why they did that. Empire and rebellion, only a couple force users. But you're right. The issue with the ST is it didn't need to exist, certainly not as a part of the same saga as 1-6. The way I see it, the PT was about the subverting of democracy/rise of the Empire and the Fall of the Jedi. The OT is about defeating that enemy and freeing the galaxy. The ST needed to be about how to build a better society and a better Jedi Order that won't suffer the same fate.

[@amarcellus1714]

@@DavidSmith-mt7tb You are 100% correct my friend. In fact, everything you said happened in the expanded universe. Luke rebuilt the Jedi Order but made sure it didn't have the same flaws as the old. He wanted the Jedi to be connected to the public and interact with the people, not just being a bunch of monks who have no personal life and just meditate on should be done next.

[@JG32757]

The problem is, Episode IX was fatally flawed because of Episode VIII. The Last Jedi screwed up everything so badly that there was simply nothing left to work with. It killed the whole trilogy.

[@damkylan3]

No, it wasn't. The things that made IX fatally flawed had jack shit to do with VIII. The decision to bring back Palpatine in particular is the biggest crime that completely hamstrung the whole plot, and it was not tied at all to anything in VIII. And no, killing Snoke didn't cause it, because a) there was no need for any other villains besides Kylo and Hux to take center stage, and b) if they were going to be that uncreative, they literally could have just brought Snoke back. You could (and should) certainly blame VIII for abandoning or just not doing plot points they should have focused more on, like Finn forming his own revolt. But much like how ESB did not at all hint at a new Death Star and AOTC did not at all hint at Grievous or Order 66, they could have come up with new stuff for TROS to build off of the things that WERE set in place by VIII. They chose instead to do a checklist of fanservice. The failure of IX belongs only to IX.

[@Dektoonics_inc.]

@@damkylan3 lol

[@straak]

@02:06 NOT TRUE Michael completed a draft of the full script in July of 2013.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

That’s not true. You can literally Google this. It’s in the TFAR book, he’s spoken about it in interviews and it’s on a literal l interview in my last videi www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/writer-michael-arndt-exits-star-650671/ The interview where it says it wasn’t finished another interview that says it wasn’t finished: uproxx.com/?p=981836 add a Rolling Stones interview that says it wasn’t finished www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/decoding-the-star-wars-writers-drama-234830/

[@mollymcallister1671]

sheepishly headbutts, *doof* "Ya dun gud."

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Baaaaaa

[@anjetto1]

The other draft of dotf by jack seems like a lot more fun

[@robtay1963]

I saw an after Prequel interview with George Lucas who said(paraphrasing) that he was frustrated with all the complaints from the l ll and lll, and was had no more plans to open himself up to making a prequel trilogy. Fast forward 7 years later and unwilling to do those films he sold the franchise to Disney. Now granted it is obvious from the events of the last 8 years or so that Lucas was willing to assist the writers, and Disney in general but was ousted with him and his ideas getting the boot. Yrs, they brought him back in to help fix IX but 8 was so was do far off the,path of even the writers of 7 let alone of George Lucas, with the franchise now screwed up already I was surprised Rise of Skywalker was watchable. I did enjoy tje action and peoples struggles, but except for Lightsabers and the Emperor's Cackle it did not feel like a Star wars film. I loved the Prequel trilogy the,first time I saw them and blame the complaints about them for the (No) Lucas input fiasco we got in the Sequels. I hope they redo with George Lucas at helm, after all it is a,Galaxy from his mind, whom better.

[@theianprender-cast3863]

To be brutally honest, it still sounds bad. Would the finished product have been better or worse than TROS? Who’s to say, we’ll never know.

[@S.M.Jean-Mahmoud_Ier]

2:12 The reason why the new trilogy s*cked as hard as it did... and I ain't talking about George Lucas...

[@chasx7062]

Kylo Ren was supposed to be the Villain, he was set to fail, his redemption was a mistake

[@TheRedVelvetScare]

The blunder of the sequel trilogy is hopefully a good lesson, and it could have done so much to expand the world and lore by leaps and bounds. I was excited after The Last Jedi for that fact, and was practically Padme after RoS.

[@Savor1979]

Personally in I opinion they should’ve made Finn the Last Jedi…. The rebels from the original become a sort of empire…. Just like the same goes Oppress become the oppressors

[@yashaoftheflames8475]

are you gonna review star wars vision?

[@LuoSon312_G8]

a weird retcon that they could have done. make the entirety of TLJ a force vision. shared by Rey, Finn, Luke, and Kylo. each getting a fragment of the vision. a manipulation from Snoke via a flashback to Sideous (yes a damn flashback) leaving standing orders to the First order to finish operation Cinder, the careful steps needed to hinder the Jedi and all future force users. upon waking up we redo the entirety of episode 8, fixing as much of the drama and mistakes made.

[@chrisfmjesusmountsteven6146]

So many times when people talked about TLJ they would say "Anyone can have the force not just a bloodline" shit. Thank you for pointing out how the jedi order had no family. That argument needs to die.

[@damkylan3]

I'm very confused as to where you think the contradiction is supposed to be. That argument was only ever made to counter the people who thought Rey (and the broomstick kid) needed to be connected to an important figure in previous movies, or to some great Force user in order to be Force-sensitive. If anything, the line of logic about the Jedi Order not having families only strengthens that argument. Unless you're saying that we already knew that, and thus that argument is redundant. I mean, okay, but as long as people keep wrongfully stating that biology is indeed important to being Force-sensitive, I'd say it has a place. There would only be a contradiction if anyone was ever saying that Rey being a "nobody" was something unique to her, but nobody ever really did. Certainly not TLJ. I'm going to assume the DotF script does do something like that.

[@RamielDerLinke]

I personally think that some parts in Duel of the Fates were better than some parts in The Rise of Skywalker but I also don't think that it would have been much better. All in all The Rise of Skywalker still sounds better to me than Duel if the Fates.

[@thegregnorton]

Damn, never been this early

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Well I did keep you guys waiting for a couple weeks

[@thegregnorton]

Worth the wait, always informative

[@stuartshannon8561]

nice!

[@hyperballadbradx6486]

Follow you on twitter and just come across you here. I liked the video!!

[@lonebattledroid4474]

The J.J/ Lucas cut is probably the best

[@leonvalentine3748]

Are you saying #ReleaseTheLucasCut?

[@lonebattledroid4474]

@@leonvalentine3748 Perhaps

[@leonvalentine3748]

@@lonebattledroid4474 do it

[@kiksogue]

interesting

[@deazl666]

Give me a pen and a legal pad and I could have come up with something a thousand times better than the crap burger we were served with VII, VIII, and IX. Hell, most of us could.

[@nsawatchlistbait289]

Rey Salono?

[@mikerotonda6264]

I think rey keeps wanting to redeem kylo..... Cause she ...wants his Johnson.... His ruined Johnson

[@sergeantseth57]

The concept art for DOTF is very cool as well as the concepts, but I agree that it wouldn’t have been executed properly. I am happy though that Trevorrow decided to use more elements from the Prequel Trilogy, as it would’ve tied up the saga a lot better

[@TheFirstOkiro]

There’s a mess of a lot of Prequel Trilogy related concept art for originally TROS as well this makes me think it was probably Disney vetoing it

[@sergeantseth57]

@@TheFirstOkiro Thats unfortunate. I wish they could've gotten it to work because I feel the Prequels have been really left out from the Sequel trilogy

[@alexshdvideo]

Impressive post. Thank you. Honestly I couldn’t sit through any of the sequel movies in 1 sitting.. most took 3 attempts or more each movie on different weeks. My short reply? Lots of film stock wasted, but people made money in wages.. Lots of potential thrown away “because it’s cool” or more likely because “It’s easy”. I almost didn’t order the 4K Blu Ray of Star Wars IV, V and VI just to deny Disney any income from Disney. Honestly... I would rather a 4th movie come out showing that the sequel trilogy where propaganda story and then Fin tells us what really went down. Then there was Solo... uhhh.. Well never mind.. don’t want to address that. I guess it was better than the Star Wars holiday special with a bunch of Wookiees growling at each other while making thanks giving turkey.. or was it Christmas dinner? Ok.. smacking the “Like” button. :)

[@abbeylutionante2610]

I think Finn should have been forcesensitive and Jedi mind tricked all the stormtroopers in a rebellion! Didn’t see TROS...

[@marktwo8608]

TROS was hot garbage and wasn't and shouldn't have been a tall task for JJ Abrams, who's NOT an inexperienced director, he's been around for awhile he is smart and experience enough to know what's good and bad. He did Star Trek and Mission Impossible, and hell he did TFA which was pretty good. We can't let JJ Abrams slide like he's an Indy director hire by Marvel. I guaranteed you he knew at the final cut of TROS that it was bad, and he probably said F it let it go.

[@gregr3720]

There's a video where JJ admits that he learned that they should have a good story before they start making the movies. He's just learned that from his experience on Star Wars. He didn't know that before as a director.

[@mikerotonda6264]

...a Jedi Johnson is very powerful...

[@mikerotonda6264]

Cause the plural of jedi is jedi

[@richardjohnson9543]

The things that went wrong with the Sequels are so difficult to understand that I came up with my own theory. Disney doesn't much care to tell stories that aren't of their own making. The Sequel Trilogy was just a thing that they were sort of obligated to do once they had the franchise but their real focus was on doing original stuff afterward. So there was no real effort to make the Sequels as good as possible. Just throw them together, get them out there, be done with it and move on. Rogue One and Solo(that film does not deserve the bad rap it got) were better constructed because they were part of Disney's real plan, which didn't quite work at first because Star Wars isn't Marvel and you can't just churn them out two or three times a year. Now thanks to all this mess and after the dust has settled it seems the future of Star Wars is on TV, at least for the foreseeable future. In Filoni/Favreau we trust. Two guys who know, love, and understand SW

[@dawsynasay4841]

I think Solo is actually the best of the Disney era films. It’s fun, the acting is good, and the film doesn’t try to copy any plot lines or connect itself to the rest of the series. Sure, we see where Han gets a lot of his character traits, but it isn’t like the sequels where they basically copied the original trilogy. Or Rogue One, which is a great film but is still dependent on A New Hope. Solo is just a fun romp through the criminal underworld and I love it

[@toughlondonman]

Wow everyone who covered duel of the fates was making it out to be Jesus Christ but honestly after hearing this, I think this movie would’ve been better but it would be still be pretty bad

[@leonl1ons775]

You should really talk about the roumers of the finn series

[@mdub2000]

so they tell these directors to do what ever they want but then the fckn micro manage them....wtf

[@billmcdermott9647]

So you’re a Kylux fan?

[@jaieregilmore971]

They should have more Jedi in the beginning of the sequel instead of killing them off again it’s no wonder that Star Wars is always in books,comics,shows and games cause making a Star Wars movie more so a trilogy is difficult.

[@prestonrcasey]

I waste so much time listening to people bitching about the sequel trilogy that it really just shouldn't have happened

[@toonytube2444]

I think you should ask the question different. The ORIGINAL EPISODE IX is the movie they released. There are different skripts that could became the movie, but it didnt.

[@avanishdutta2658]

#ReleasetheDOTFCut

[@Ashin-Jast]

I comment for the youtube gods

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Thank you!

[@MoreisMor]

Well the ORIGINAL episode nine by LUCAS was scrapped by Disney

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Tell me more kind sir and I’ll make another vid

[@theblackberseker1978]

Still would have picked it over Trod

[@yashaoftheflames8475]

Are gonna talk about star wars vision? And sorry if I come off as comment spamming

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Yep! And spam away Algorithm loves it

[@matthewtopping2061]

Episode IX should have focused entirely on the conflict between Kylo Ren and Rey. At the end they fuse into a single being that uses a yellow saber. Balance brought to the force. the end.

[@ergonautilus]

We need George Lucas's sequel treatments.

[@maxhocks2006]

I think duel of the fates has problems. It might have been a mess. But it seems like a mess that was trying to work with the pieces it had and make something from them. Rise of skywalker to me at least tries to contradict the last Jedi every chance it gets, and most of its new ideas are not good. So while I don’t known if duel of fates would have been better it do think it tried much harder to make a cohesive trilogy.

[@bbtwork]

I just wanted a decent story told between the three films. I wish these directors just carried on with what we got in TFA

[@philippealain-art]

"The farce awakens" fucked up Star Wars from the start.

[@yashaoftheflames8475]

I'm first idgaf what others say

[@DespotofAntrim]

Enough. I'm sick of hearing about this shot trilogy. Stop making videos about it, let it rot.

[@philippealain-art]

We don't care Star wars was ruined since the first seconds of "The farce awakens".

[@SJSnowdon]

Mauler rip off to the max

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Would that make me the American version?

[@seen921]

Good video I feel bad you have to go on and on and on to explain this mess. If you can’t explain a story in a paragraph then it’s overwrought Every essay I’ve watched regarding This trilogy is a run-on sentence … no end. for those doing their damndest to make head or tail and dissect these stories is telling how Disney had no clue (as usual) how to write a story. They can market it. But not write it. What a waste.

[@rileygagnon6917]

I think this would be even worse. I mean that leaked script was so bad. As a fan of 7 and 8, 9 was already disappointing but this would have been much worse. Some people know about some of the cool concepts, but actually read it and tell me it doesn't waste so many of its characters even more then the one we got.

[@Millicente]

This is everyone's comeuppance for trashing on george lucas for so long. I hope you all suffer with bad star wars films until every bit of "love" of the series that caused all that hate disappears and you can't enjoy anything star wars related anymore. Thanks.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

But I love George Lucas and his Star Wars? I always have

[@Millicente]

@@TheFirstOkiro I meant for the people that were particularly nasty in regards to the prequels

[@gregr3720]

The Prequels had its flaws. But after the Disney Sequel Trilogy, all the Prequel's sins are forgiven.

[@Dektoonics_inc.]

@@gregr3720 The prequels had flaws, but never intentionally committed sins

[@gregr3720]

@@Dektoonics_inc. The flaws, missteps, mistakes. Whatever you like to call them.

[@mikerotonda6264]

.....let's not make this a black and white thing..... !!!!

[@Wackaz]

I'm sorry dude, but you citing Daisy Ridley saying J.J. had written drafts isn't very strong evidence for your point, as she has frequently contradicted herself multiple times on how the Sequels were being managed and planned out. She has, on multiple occasions, spilled certain rumours, but they contradict each other, and on multiple occasions she has also said J.J. didn't write story drafts and instead made it up as he went along (Rey's parents constantly changing, for example). She also said that the Sequels had no plan lol. So therefore, you've cherrypicked Daisy saying something out of many cases she's said other things, which contradict everything she says - a bit of a word salad, but that's the point; Daisy isn't reliable. Ultimately, J.J. and Disney are to blame for the failure and mismanagement of the Sequels. Every single person behind these films have made contradictory statements about the plan of this trilogy which don't align with other statements that other people behind these films have made. There is no universal truth on how these films were managed. However a KZbin creator by the name Nerdonymous made their best effort to boil down the truth, and managed to reach the most realistic truth possible on this whole subject. I think Nerdonymous made the best video on this discussion, although you did an excellent job of it. He analyses - for over three hours - who was really to blame for the Sequels not having a plan and being unstructured, and he ultimately concludes that it is J.J. I think it's time to stop blaming Rian Johnson for what J.J. Abrams set up, as Rian didn't really have much to work with at all. Rian isn't a bad storyteller, J.J. is. Rian didn't mess up or fail to follow up what J.J. set up, and J.J. never had a plan; J.J. set up a bunch of terrible plotlines he called "mystery boxes" which never actually presuppsedly fulfil the mysteries set-out and are really just made up as he goes along. Rian stated in interviews that Rey being a nobody was simply a dramatic choice that Rey would hate to hear most in the situation at hand - which assumes J.J.'s mystery box was still continuing and Rey wouldn't actually be a nobody - J.J. had a level of control over the Sequels and ultimately, that control created a terribly outlined story which betrayed Lucas' story treatments (which Arndt respected but was kicked off for various reasons). Ultimately, Abrams is a terrible storyteller and Rian didn't have much to work with considering Luke being in exile doesn't have many explanations - and Rian likely chose the best one - and all other storylines he set up were mere cookiecutters rather than anything of planned substance. Nerdonymous goes into far more detail about what I'm stating here. I'd argue if Rian Johnson had full creative control of the Sequels, they would have been far better films helmed by an auteur akin and loyal to the autuership of Lucas. Other than that alternate reality, a more realistic preference would have been to let Trevorrow write and direct Episode 9, not... gosh darn J.J. So, although I love this video a whole lot and you as a person and channel, I think you give Johnson too much flack and J.J. too much apologia. J.J. was a terrible person to handle the beginning of this trilogy and form the rough outline for it (he didn't even respect the Prequels whatsoever), and Rian isn't to blame for his inadequacy. It's as simple as that.

[@HistoryandReviews]

Doesnt matter the sequels are garbage

[@Khultan]

Fake sequel. This glaring cold fact seems to be overlooked repeatedly. It's not from George Lucas.

[@mikerotonda6264]

Why do we care if it never happened?? You can say anything!!! We will never know!! Lol!! Tlj, ros, both sucked!

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Why did you comment if it doesn’t matter?

[@mikerotonda6264]

@@TheFirstOkiro because I watched it ,. And I ended up actually liking your video.. that's called I put my foot in my mouth....

[@TheFirstOkiro]

@@mikerotonda6264 I like you Mike 😁you’re honest. Have a good day and be safe