What Happened to Western Animation?

[@PhenomSage]

So a few people have fairly pointed out that I neglected to mention another branch of Western animation, that being French animation, and European animation in general. While I am familiar with a few French animated movies like The Red Turtle, Song of the Sea, The Breadwinner, etc. unfortunately it's not something I was knowledgeable enough about to consider talking about here. This is such a broad topic so I used this video as more of a personal reflection on Western animation as it's changed to me, my own experiences with it, and how the zeitgeist has shifted from my perspective. That being said, I'm always interested in learning more, so feel free to comment any European animated movies that you would recommend, and hell, any videos or articles talking about the history of European animation would be cool as well!

[@thrush_the_dutch]

I dug through a bunch of these a while back. Here are some of the best ones I saw. Long way north (my favorite) Ernest and Celestine Ethel and Ernest Cat in Paris Phantom boy My life as a Zucchini April and the extraordinary world. These are all really good and creative. I suggest you check each of them out. I didn’t include the “secret of Kells” branch, as I assume you’re already aware of that company.

[@NotFluplaxio]

PhenomSage I’m surprised you didn’t mention Castlevania at all in this. That was the one American show that had weebs foaming at the mouth within the last year.

[@addicted2p0rn]

I don't think there's a correlation with the 2d style and the failure of these movies. A lot of the 2d movies you mentioned just happen to be bad movies. I mean get over it people the Emperor Turns Into A Talking Llama and the Hawaiian Girl and the Alien were crap compared to earlier Disney movies. Just because those did bad does not mean it had to do with the style.

[@PhenomSage]

@@addicted2p0rn Those movies are cult classics dude lol, Lilo and Stitch/Emperor's New Groove were both received very well. No idea where you're getting the idea that they underperformed because of their quality.

[@PhenomSage]

@@NotFluplaxio Castlevania is really cool visually, I don't really have much to say about it other than that though. It would fall under what I said about there being exceptions to television that produce really high quality animation, I would also put Voltron under that umbrella as well.

[@ScamboliReviews]

So what you're telling me is that spacejam 2 can save Western animation? It was inside us all along? I knew it.

[@couchgamingnews9379]

lol

[@lostantarctica]

Wouldn’t be surprised if space jam 2 is cgi honestly

[@Harrinsain]

god, let's hope. it probably won't, but here's hoping

[@hotwax9376]

​@@lostantarctica Me neither, considering that most of the recent Looney Tunes shorts have all been CG. But if anyone is in a position to bring back traditional animation in Anglo-America, it's Warner Bros. They've demonstrated their commitment to preserving the legacy of animation, and of films in general, more than almost any other studio. @Harrinsain!! Considering that critics and animation purists despised Space Jam (and still do), it probably won't do much, regardless of how much money it makes.

[@thepotatoshow1887]

i like your space dandy profile pic

[@PR1ME98]

I don’t mind cgi but the fact that almost EVERYONE here in the west is switching to it really discourages me. Id rather have a balance of both.

[@churchboy4609]

Exactly

[@pforgottonsoul]

balance/moderation is key to most things in life.

[@plasticflower]

Makes you wonder how long it'll be until japanese animation also switches towards CGI. I mean pixar-like CGI, not the abominations that are already used in a lot of anime these days where characters look like models from a PS2 game. Uh, actually, even though I'm not particularly fond of 3D-CGI, it would be a huge step up from the type of CGI that's used in anime these days...

[@youcantconvinceamoronnotto7117]

anime is the way

[@DylanoRevs]

Thanos approves

[@dog8438]

I definitely like CGI animation but 2D animation totally has a certain vibe that feels way more unique. Especially between different studios and programs.

[@bradleybrad398]

In the end i dont think that how good or how bad a film is should be judged on animation style, though. For example, i think everyone could agree that a movie like the incredibles has a much more unique and creative feel than something like Brother Bear or the Princess and the Frog.

[@nomnom2969]

Agreed, overall, 2D and handdrawn animation are more intuitive and expressive than 3D, because it's easier to change things like body/face shape of characters with their movement and expressions, without it looking off or creepy. Btw, it's important to know the distinction between 2D and handrawn animation. 2D is computer generated flat animation, and can be drawn like in adobe flash/animate, can be character rigs for instance in After Effects, etc. It's a bit harder to be expressive with 3D animation, and the typical big budget films usually use a very similar aesthetic look. It is definitely possible to make an original looking, expressive 3D movie and I think the Spiderverse movie is a great example of that. I'd also recommend some episodes of the love+death+robots show on netflix. Especially the episode 3 has a very original visual style. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpKnZKKHh9-rntk

[@princesspikachu3915]

@@bradleybrad398 No it doesn't. The Incredibles is incredibly unoriginal. Look how many super hero movies came before it! The Incredibles is nothing more than a rip-off of Fantastic 4 sprinkled with The Brady Bunch and using pathetic tropes like an overpowered demon baby named Jack Jack. The only thing that The Incredibles achieved is giving me a seizure with the sequel, something that never happened when I watched the seizure episode of Pokemon. I don't have epilepsy but that fucking movie made me have to go to the ER and now I suffer migraines because of it! Brother Bear and The Princess and the Frog might not be great films but they are loads better than the shit that Pixar puts out that shit eaters like to lap up like it's chocolate milk when in reality it's just diarrhea. Not to mention the fact that Coco is a rip-off of The Book of Life and Inside Out is very offensive to those who have serious clinical emotional by making light of it. Fuck Pixar and those who eat up the shit that they make.

[@bradleybrad398]

Princess Pikachu i honestly can’t believe what i’m reading right now so i’ll just leave

[@princesspikachu3915]

@@bradleybrad398 Ok buh bye!

[@CsRazeel]

Let's be honest though, Tangled would have most likely seen the same success even if it was 2D animated. The emperor's new groove may have flopped, but somehow it managed to remain culturally relevant, even in memes today.

[@rachelsacks8742]

Prince Razeel I agree. I think Tangled just did well because rapunzel is such a well known fairy tale and the movie was well scripted, though I also thought the princess and the frog was amazing as well

[@Tikibird79]

Prince Razeel yep. I think studios need to stop blaming the reception on 2D and realize how much the content and themes and songs of a movie matter. For example, I think the reason why Princess and the Frog flopped had more to do with the elements mixed into the new one - it became a story set in New Orleans instead of, say, a fantasy kingdom, and how is that not going to appeal to kids less? And the music style wasn’t the type a lot of kids would go for, either. It’s also possible that there has been a general intrigue in 3D in the past decade, making people more likely to try those movies out. If that’s a factor, though, I would think it’s starting to wear off. As people become more used to high quality 3D it’ll lose its flair.

[@CreamCheeseAlchemist]

The Tangled tv show is 2d and animated by the same company as Hilda. It’s a real bright spot if you miss 2d animation and storytelling.

[@s2s536]

I agree, can you imagine a hand drawn Frozen? Can you imagine if the animators that did the Genie had hand animated Olaf! They could have done so much with that.

[@MC-kg5gz]

Emperor’s new groove partially flopped because it was originally a more serious movie. Its final budget included a lot of unused footage and audio material. And one of its first tv airings did so well that a series was ordered.

[@_M_4]

I know I'll sound like an old fuck, but just thinking about how the new generation's first exposure to Disney will be the live-action epidemic... just, ughhhh.....

[@JDReC100]

I mean, if people show them the 2d originals first.... Let's be honest people be hording them old school vhs tapes somewhere.

[@Elderahn]

Have to remember that a lot of this is Sturgeons law as well. The mass of content available to us has exploded, which means that the amount of shit increases.. but so does the amount of good stuff too. There's the stinkers, but it is also a world where kids can see Spiderverse, Coco, Wreck it Ralph, Zootopia, Frozen and so on. There's plenty of extremely solid content for them to be inspired by.

[@Kaempfdog]

Yeah I’m getting the original movies for my kids and just teaching them the lessons that the old Disney skipped over. Gotta make the kids dreamers at the start now don’t we?

[@zerotodona1495]

JDReC100 they are too racist for the classics now a days... so they won’t. Or they will show the worse, princess and the frog.

[@jormungandrworldserpent6437]

No, it’ll be whatever gets shown to them, parents don’t always just show their kids whatever is new, they show them things they loved and grew up with

[@Avi2Nyan]

Glad you touched upon the horrible working conditions of anime animators!

[@a-drewg1716]

this is Western animation

[@akar3f853]

A-Drew G did you even watch the video?

[@jaimayy]

That’s why you don’t pirate

[@Krispeeness]

i know!!! ive always wonder how they're make money with all the free sites that stream it ILLEGALY.and all the paid-web r mostly ads too. i know there are merchandise and stuff but it still seem so much work put in to it that it doesn't seem equivalent.

[@metagamerz4532]

@@Krispeeness I don't like pirating anime but it's stupid that some streaming services don't have certain animes and that I have to pay for a whole other streaming site just to see like 2 animes

[@crownjewel2251]

A nightmare of mine? If anime becomes all cgi

[@strictlyworse_mk7108]

If you mean like Berserk 2016/17? Then yes! If you mean like Houseki no Kuni, then I wouldn't say nightmare. More like, "Yeah, its not great hand-drawn animation is phased out, but at least its not Berserk 2016/17."

[@crownjewel2251]

@@strictlyworse_mk7108 but hand animation would still be favorable, and i meant to say if all not just select anime shows hahah

[@IamLegendAnon]

Blending cgi and hand-drawn animation works pretty well though. Anime seems to screw it up all the time but it worked even as early as FLCL, which was one of the first anime to have digitized animation elements. Not to mention of course the Disney pictures of the late 90s or early 2000s, or something like Into The Spider-Verse.

[@Kusanagikaiser999]

Its already happening and its HORRIBLE. Just watch some of the Netflix CG Anime.......so far the only 2 CG anime series that are gorgeous to watch are Land or the Lustrous and Blame, but other than those if is not a full length film is to meh to crap what Japan is producing as full CG anime, just look at Berserk (T.T)

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Well, just take a look at Kirby: Right Back At Ya'. At least it's better than CGI animes (besides the upcoming Ultraman anime).

[@myopinioniscorrect.]

Basically: *Treasure Planet.* It started with Disney. Disney wanted an excuse to stop continuing with traditional animation, so they purposely barely advertised and refrained from making it more known so when it commercially flopped it would have an excuse to switch to cgi and the like. That was likely the start of the whole shenanigan.

[@adriannaranjo4397]

While at the same time fucking over it's two creators, who had done nothing but deliver cash cows to them, all because they kept asking to make Treasure Planet

[@zacharyramirez5953]

Wot Is This I don’t think that Disney would intentionally make a movie bad, for the reason of switching to cgi. A lot of people probably put a lot of work into that movie

[@PimStoit]

@@zacharyramirez5953 Treasure Planet was awesome and of insanely high quality (seriously, go watch it), but there was almost absolutely zero marketing for it, causing it to fail spectacularly at the box office. It's unknown why this happened, but the two theories are the OP's, and rumors about a fallout between Disney and the movies directors, because Disney was strangling them creatively. I think it's a bit of both.

[@zacharyramirez5953]

Pim Stoit Yeah, as a kid I don’t remember any commercials for Treasure Planet

[@colanemo]

@@zacharyramirez5953 yea it was actually a fantastic movie and was incredibly expensive and so much hard work and love was poured into it. then disney let it fail financially and go "see 2d doesnt make any money no more 2d movies" and primarily switched to cgi. heartbreaking 😢 and the movie didnt get the praise it deserved. i grew up loving disney and never even heard of treasure planet till a few months ago and i watched it and it became my all time fave disney movie

[@yuagiin]

Personally I miss Dreamworks' 2D animation before, disney is nice and all but The Prince of Egypt and The Road to El Dorado were legendary.

[@nerychristian]

Don Bluth animated films were even more superior. Remember The Land Before Time? An American Tail? Fivel Goes West? Fern Gully? All Dogs Go To Heaven?

[@yuagiin]

@@nerychristian The only one of his I've seen is Anastasia, but personally I prefer The Road to El Dorado over it. They were both on-par to disney with songs but I personally feel dreamworks really went the extra mile with animation for stuff like water in their films.

[@yuagiin]

@Rpgloverwhat I heard anastasia was Don Bluth?

[@bleack8701]

@@nerychristian I'll always hold a special place in my heart for Land Before Time

[@elitedima9672]

Treasure Planet anyone?

[@ely2445]

I'm usually pro 2d for the characterization of the movement and styles but if they propose me something like Spider-Man into the spiderverse I'm well on board with that .

[@a-drewg1716]

CGI can be used to be far better then 2D but the problem is at that point it can actually be more expensive then 2D. This is especially apparent in the later 90s and early 2000s Disney movies (Tarzan, Treasure Planet, Atlantis). In these they used very expensive CGI to make the backgrounds and you know those scenes in Tarzan where he is sliding down the branches or in Treasure Planet where he is.... sun surfing, those were expensive scenes. CGI though is definitly though getting really good. At-least in the West, and that is because CGI is being less used due to costs and more instead for style. This is compared to say Asia and specifically Anime (or what ever animation from China/Korea is called) where CGI is basically only used because the company can't afford to do 2D animation and it normally looks like shit/uncanny. This isn't always the case but generally it is with clunky movements. what ever is CGI is also always shiny and looks plastic/fake and is just bad. Really though a mix of 2D and CGI is the best.

[@adityamakeyourway908]

In some way anime is the only last way to save western animation

[@rassilontdavros3004]

Spider-Verse actually had a distinct look, something most CGI films fail to do- even more impressively, they managed to make the different art styles of the different universes look cohesive together in the film’s overall art style.

[@doctorfrosty3546]

Elisa Lotto what’s the point of it being CGI when it’s trying to look 2D? They should’ve made it 2D. Would have made it a better movie.

[@adityamakeyourway908]

@@doctorfrosty3546 you are right👍

[@SAWTheDesigner]

Prince of Egypt. Underrated 2D master piece by DreamWorks.

[@betterlatethannever4529]

True, but let's not forget Spirit as well

[@aleenakhan6230]

Ahhh I loved that movie

[@medici__]

Bruh dreamworks needs to take advantage of the 2d animation DRY SPELL that the western animation industry is having and put out another 2d movie as beautiful as el Dorado and prince of Egypt . I swear they would make sooo much money and maybe even surpass disney 😤😤

[@igodreamer7096]

So true

[@HarveyRequiem]

Omg, they're already dipping their toes with Trolls and Harvey Street Kids and SheRa on Netflix (all hand-drawn series, no flash, I looked it up!) it would be AMAZING if they expanded that! They could probably blow Disney out of the water!

[@Amy-de8hv]

I find 2D animation so much more emotional and engaging than CGI.

[@Rishi123456789]

2D animation = SOUL 3D animation = SOULLESS

[@kaseycombs6968]

Rishi we’re just disregarding the entirety of Pixar and Spider-Verse, huh?

[@elpakka274]

@@Rishi123456789 wall-e

[@CurtisD01]

@@Rishi123456789 cg bad

[@LatteDragon]

I honestly think it depends. I think there's a few movies that work better with 3D. I think How to Train Your Dragon is a perfect example of a film that I have a difficult time seeing in 2D. Especially the first one. The incredible storytelling of when Hiccup takes Astrid for her first flight on Toothless and they soar through those incredibly colorful clouds and that sky... I'm sure a painted background of the same scene would be breathtaking too, but the depth and sense of scale would be very difficult to nail in 2D animation (Not impossible, but extremely difficult!). That scene is absolutely pivotal to the plot to the point where if it isn't nailed in a way that the audience doesn't feel the same sense of wonder or awe as Astrid, the theming of the movie that peace and cohabitation can make something more than the sum of it's parts would feel weaker to the eyes of most audiences. And the semi realism of the environment along with the physics that can be made more accurate/realistic through a 3D engine can make feelings of flight almost have more feeling, which, in a story that uses flight as much as that series does and the way it does, that movie would NOT be the same in 2D. The story wouldn't be weaker, but the grand scale and way it's told would be more difficult to pull off visually, and the extra dramatic flair gained with these advantages all work for the movie. In short, for every 10 movies using 3D as a crutch, there's still a movie or two that use it to enhance and utilize it for the incredible potential it absolutely has to create scenes like the flying scenes in the How to Train Your Dragon movie trilogy that shouldn't be overlooked! This is coming from an animation major whose main passion is 2D animation.

[@Cantrona]

When I was younger, I would refuse to watch anything that WASN'T animated. I used to think it was boring and contrived like people hadn't taken as much time to make it the best it could be.

[@Cantrona]

@@Wheeljack84 I think Space Jam might have been the only one I was okay with. But even TV shows, if it wasn't a cartoon, I didn't watch it. Only changed my mind when I got to be like 11 or 12 haha

[@Nobodyss21]

So, you dont like lazy town, teletubbies, blues clues? Its like the most belovable things in my childhold mate

[@flappingonlinelogic4611]

Same, it changed a little when i saw the lord of the rings and the hobbit

[@libruh385]

I still do this

[@inessa5923]

That’s so sad A lot of people grow up watching animated films, sure, but at the same time watching things such as animal planet or the discovery channel, boosting their knowledge in the process. How limited does that become if you’re picky about only watching movies that someone has slaved every second over lmao

[@TacetTheTerror]

What happened to western animation?: Money

[@-hello6177]

"People who don't take animation seriously" you mean, if people kept watching "Traditional" Animation more than CGI, we'd still see more of it, people pay for what they want, you can't blame disney for following what most people are paying for

[@OnionYeeter]

Gommunism time

[@Peayou...]

It's not just money Disney is lazy and doesn't want to get creative hand drawn could make more if they tried to make something original for once

[@ApollyonZKX]

"We've got to have MONEY!" - Disney

[@zeanzern4396]

Exactly

[@debleb166]

2d western animation: Good. Traditional CGI animation: Also good. Disney cash-grab CGI: Not good. If you're gonna make an animated movie, make it look animated rather than live-action.

[@samo6401]

Dont attack disney for that. Talk to the people buying the tickets supporting the live actions

[@echidnanatsuki882]

@@samo6401 agree

[@Bmoney902]

Nah I'd rather attack Disney. They should have artistic integrity. They don't have that anymore.

[@debleb166]

@@samo6401 The people buy the tickets because they're designed to ride off nostalgia alone. It's bad either way.

[@realar]

@spook Yeah, I am frankly tired of plastic characters. Texture and new designs please.

[@moveslikeninja1]

It's honestly so sad to see hand-drawn 2D animation as a dying form in the west. I miss the original mulan, lion king, prince of egypt, tarzan.... i'm sick and tired of every single thing having to look 3D ugh

[@jakeystarsuper]

3d isnt that bad but yeah it'll be nice for something different.

[@beautifulspacesllc]

Same

[@austinreed7343]

Unicorn Bunny Plus lots of more stylized CGI movies like Spiderverse.

[@Spamhard]

It's not dying, it's doing big money, from the animated TV shows lie Bojack and Green Eggs and Ham, to films like Klaus. Granted a lot of it's coming from Netflix, but 2D is still alive and kicking in the west, and I think Klaus made a lot of people sit up and realise that 2D is just as versatile, if not more so, as CGI. Spiderverse is an awesome example of what we can do with CGI anyway, I'd be fine seeing more stuff as visually interesting as that.

[@aerialpunk]

Yeah, plus I get sick of all the CGI characters looking like bug-eyed baby-heads.

[@Rainjojo]

Kuzco will always be my favorite Disney princess

[@belongsinthetrash1543]

same

[@heckingelizabethafton]

who? ;-;

[@Kicksno1fan]

Bear_Is_The _One YT wtf

[@shay2396]

Shooken Sis if I’m being real here my favorite is Tiana

[@joshuasterling2144]

@Jessica Jones I hear he is not going to be into the new Mulan, Dishonor on you dishonor on yo cow......lol

[@samin90]

Normies think "eww cartoons" while eagerly awaiting the latest live action Disney disappointment

[@Artemi099]

@Peek- At -Ch'you um what does this has to do with politics

[@theignaciortega]

@@Artemi099 Oh, come on...

[@Scooby_Nubie]

OMG YES

[@Artemi099]

@Peek- At -Ch'you why are you bringing politics tho. I'm on the right myself just so you know but this topic almost has nothing to do with politics.

[@Artemi099]

@Peek- At -Ch'you sure why not

[@Maria-ru6vi]

Did you know that Netflix's "Klaus" is hand-drawned? It's amazing!

[@mikshin9825]

I saw it, it was awesome and a little naughty. A little risky. Like a love letter from the 90s.

[@gabriellitewski7988]

I want to go back in time

[@nawalkhawar7602]

omg really? i love that movie

[@MegaSamantha11]

Oh my gosh, such an underrated movie! It’s become my favorite annual Christmas movie! 💖✨

[@bellct4980]

Yes I love it

[@aSpectrumofDorky]

Treasure planet didn’t have to be a flop, they let it be a flop. 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@Kumagoroo23]

Katie Liggin it premiered at the same time as Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, so... yeah

[@doctor_whoey3857]

Advertising failure

[@moonflowerpalace3872]

@@Kumagoroo23 Wait really? Oof! :( It's been a while.

[@constantinople3828]

@@moonflowerpalace3872 There's a wonderful video by Breadsword about Treasure Planet. He really explains everything thoroughly. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGrWqpaaiNChnaM

[@largeandmildlythreateningr2966]

it was pretty niche in terms of the genre. great depression space steampunk pirate movie doesn't exactly make you want to see it after how many shit steampunk movies there were around that time. it was a great movie but it didn't have much potential for marketing because it was such a weird idea in concept

[@WillScarlet16]

"I wouldn't give up on it completely. [...] You're going to have people in the corners of garages making cartoons to please themselves. And I'm more interested in those people than I am in big business." - *Hayao Miyazaki*

[@Hacker-yc5st]

Ya in my spare time i try to make 2d but that means i gotta draw the same scene over and over and i wont stoop being creative somebody needs to bring back 2D animation

[@gyokshun5189]

I'm from Japan, and I have to mention this... So many Japanese people miss Disney 2D animation. There are many great Japanese animation works, but Disney animation is so unique and different in good ways which Japanese animation studios could never make. The moves, graphics, background, combination with music,... It is something that Walt Disney and all the other animaters created and developed. It's really sad that American people underestimate their great invention and culture. 2D animation is art. You can't abandon art just for the money. That would be such a big lost for not only America but the whole world! *caution I DO NOT talk about which is better. CGI or handdrawn, japanese or american. Those questions are ridiculous. You can't compare art, especially if it has different target, cultural and historical background, genre, etc. No hate 😌love you all❤️🐌

[@infinityzombi6287]

If you can understand, I'd like to know your personal favorite Disney movies and current Western favorite cartoons if you have any please. ❤️

[@peggysue4253]

The comment make me happy, thank you for sharing it 💖

[@deacubogdan2263]

If Japanese studios had disney levels of money they'd certainly produce movies as fluid as disney. I mean, Your Name was made with just a couple million dollars and it looks absolutely gorgeous, I cannot imagine how good it would have looked with a budget of tens of millions of dollars.

[@ian5415]

Thanks for your comment's input and perspective, it's informative.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@deacubogdan2263 It's not fluid or expressive, just detailed

[@Anna-sh1ne]

"If they didn't wanna watch these stories before because they were animated, they really don't deserve to watch these in live action now." THIS is so true! Thank you.

[@アシュリーメイ]

It's interesting because most of anime is hand animated, and a lot of people see CGI anime series as... almost taboo? A direct contrast to western animation today, apparently.

[@salemsaberhagan]

Uhmmm see here's the thing. "Hand animation" isn't really something that we can claim exists in any media made today. 2D, sure, you can say that. But just coz it's 2D doesn't mean it was drawn by hand as in the older cell animation. It's all mostly done digitally, & yes you can draw each frame by hand but you can also just get digital tools to do it for you. And plenty of anime does use CGI quite liberally, especially mostly for backgrounds & side characters. Studio Kyoto Animation, which is a beloved art style for many people, actually uses CGI even for their main characters. It just superimposes a flatter 2D layer on top, using the CGI for generating the shadows & movements. That gives them a certain liveliness which is what people love. It's a unique blend of both.

[@-hello6177]

Kemurikusa, Kemono Friends, Land of the Lustrous and Beastars: are we a joke to you?

[@AtelierGod]

Takai Akai I believe the technique your referring to is deep canvas.

[@salemsaberhagan]

@@AtelierGod the KyoAni series which I've seen that kind of animation in have "CGI Team" listed in the credits. Afaik deep canvas was something Disney made for Tarzan, & while I do see similarities between the animation in that movie & KyoAni gems like Tamako Market or Kyokai No Kanata, they are significantly different as well so it could just as easily be something they developed parallelly on their own.

[@baphometh5531]

60% of anime is just cg And anime is just japanese animation

[@xexexz6372]

i don't feel like cg is bad on premise. the thing is their story writers got lazy

[@LittleMongoosie]

Bingo!!!

[@holly3330]

Maybe not lazy, maybe more constricted.

[@realar]

@@holly3330 Richard Williams said straightout that they got lazy and it shows.

[@holly3330]

realar oh ok

[@ExtremeWreck]

Unless if it's something like Rapsittie Street Kids, or Dorbees.

[@briannabrickey444]

I still like 2D animation way better than 3D animation. They should co exist.

[@happyrider4343]

Arcane has been a game changer even though it's built on 3-D animation, it just has that fluidity and the way it looks is just great.

[@zulchemical]

true but its more than just the animation. The story-telling and music plays a lot of part too!

[@JackSann]

Arcane is trash

[@methos4866]

Fortiche is a fantastic studio. There's also other French studios that do some fantastic work.

[@TheStevedie]

Treasure Planet was a work of art. I wish they would bring back that hybrid approach back.

[@happilyisolated]

Love that movie!

[@zoidsfan77]

Not Disney, but I have a soft spot for Titan AE. Wonderful animation.

[@happilyisolated]

@@zoidsfan77 As do I. Excellent movie.

[@jeyfomson6364]

@@zoidsfan77 TITAN:AE was freaking Epic!!!

[@zoidsfan77]

@@jeyfomson6364 Indeed, it features some awesome character design as well as badass hand animation, thanks to the legendary Don Bluth. The sound design is pretty good also.

[@eggwife6425]

I love how you brought up the Avatar animation.

[@lazyvipurr4698]

I was thinking about it as I was watching the video, and it has had some of the most drop dead gorgeous animations I've ever seen 'specially in a "kids" show n.n

[@hello-dp7xr]

I always had a dream of becoming a 2D animator ever since I was a child, I'm currently in high school and very stressed out about how things are going to turn out in the future. My family members constantly ask me what I want to become in the future and I'm always scared of telling them because my family is not really into animation and believe they are only for children except for my big brother who is into Japanese animation. I finally found the courage to finally tell him what I wanted to become and what he told me kinda made me sad, he told me I should just give up on becoming a 2D animator and become a 3D animator if I want to go to the US unless I want to stay in Japan. I have no problem with staying in Japan but I really do miss western 2D animation

[@nerychristian]

Don't give up on your dreams. There are still American cartoons that use hand drawn animation. And in the future, there will be a shortage of hand-drawn animators, because most will choose 3-D.

[@DeathandGrim2]

You're not alone in missing Western 2D. Everyday I try to convince myself that it'll comeback. But the truth of the matter is Outsourcing is just easier and more cost effective... God that hurts my soul to even type. I would put my heart and soul into becoming an animator here only to be at best a storyboard artist.

[@grapeabbas7043]

If you want to make 2d animation is the us, you need to make your own company like Ghibli does. I had the same dream like you and I'm also in high school. I would love to make a 2d animation of you and I are going to work together but that won't going to happen.

[@krunkle5136]

Start your own studio!

[@lilyhooper8740]

Hi hello! I will say the one thing that others haven't mentioned below. This is simply the fact that a lot of 3d animators don't know how to draw and quite frankly everything starts on a piece of paper. So, don't give up on your dreams there is always a place for 2d animators. ( when I have the money I will make a space for that) Build on your skills and master your craft. Once you have mastered 2d there is always room for 3d. The other way round not so much. Just believe and all the best.😊

[@zaraleemcauliffe1126]

Yeah, you know anime animators are overworking when it can take multiple years to animate 1 feature length film, but Japanese animators are animating entire seasons in a year.

[@CCuiu]

I do not intend to undermine the quality of anime and those definitely have some scenes that are great, but a lot of corners are cut to archive that season in a year.

[@bigsmoke8816]

@@CCuiu the thing is... Anime has shit animation

[@isolody]

@@bigsmoke8816 Attack on Titan?

[@bigsmoke8816]

@@isolody you mean the art style? In that case yeah the art style is good But the animation is still pretty bad Animation: the technique of photographing successive drawings or positions of puppets or models to create an illusion of movement when the film is shown as a sequence. In layman's terms animation is how characters move and again in anime the animation is pretty bad

[@jorgemurilo7779]

@@bigsmoke8816 nope

[@EcchiBANZAII-desu]

CGI pleases my eyes for a while, drawn animation pleases my heart forever.

[@KKAkuoku]

Can a comment make you cry?

[@CryingZombie666]

But bad CGI makes you wanna drink bleach.

[@majamystic256]

both please my heart forever, we need both styles

[@blruha3753]

Yeah, like ghibli's animation

[@rasmuslongva4008]

CGI has an expiration date

[@zarinaa1135]

I'm a simple woman. You put Hiccup in the thumbnail, I click.

I didn't see it

[@eitakou]

I love you and I love love love HTTYD!

[@andyz986]

The first thing that came into my mind

[@derptank3308]

Sassy Toothless=Doggo Toothless Book series Movie Trilogy

[@Jay-hg8yj]

Mood haha, I was worried he was going to talk bad about it.

[@Aipe97]

I like CG animation a lot, and I don't wish for it to be destroyed, but I also want traditional animation to survive and make good stuff.

[@jjju3]

The only fucker in this comment section i respect disbsjshhs

[@L16htW4rr10r]

Approve with you. I think they something that can go hand in hand.

[@dionysos46]

True that. However, CG animation digs his own grave with photorealism, and Lion King "Live Action" will be blatant of it.

[@Kasuyaki007]

to coexist is something I wish to see, too. bc i love them both

[@JDReC100]

@@dionysos46 there are directors that go with the photorealism, then you have directors (from sony) that go with the animation direction of CWACOM and Hotel Transylvania (and the emoji movie, great animation poor poor story and direction). and then there are the ones like in Zootopia and Tangled. im sure their are many factors that go into why certain animated styles are chosen (budget and media are 2 i can think of). i dont really know why Disney is going for extreme photorealism in the latest Lion King movie. i just hope it works for them , for their sakes.

[@DracowolfieDen]

It's still absolutely WILD to me that all my favorite animated films are considered commercial "flops"--Brother Bear, Emperor's New Groove, Balto, Tarzan... just absolutely mind-boggling to me.

[@TheMrfoxguy]

Balto and toy story came out at the same time the first toy story was a juggernaut in both movie making and merch so every other animated movie was left in the dust at the time

[@CrunchyKiwi8799]

i enjoy western animation but overtime i've drifted towards Japanese animation. I'm annoyed with Disney being lazy and doing live actions of their animated movies instead of making new original content and disappointed with reboots of old animated franchises (the new ben 10 and yes teen titans to name a few). anime has been providing better quality shows and animation. i love the western animated shows i grew up with (avatar, star wars the clone wars and adventure time just to name three) but i'm just tired. i also grew up with ghibli and i saw how different they were. anime will do what western animation has neglected. also i hope conditions for the animators get better edit: got a notification that someone liked my comment, did not expect 1.5k likes

[@tdfern1]

Even anime seems to be suffer the same or similar problems like Disney and the rest of the Western animation business is suffering from. Laziness and too much saturation and repeating of anime tropes and certain anime to a key demographic such as the harem & ecchi genres.

[@lemonadethefifthp389]

I agree 100%

[@wilmhosenfeld1777]

I love anime, but even that industry has become stagnant over the years from the massive influence of the Otaku culture. Too many rehashed teen rom coms, isekai, slice of life, etc. Don't get me wrong, I like some of these shows, but I wish they weren't so extremely prevalent. In a single given season, we may only get 1 or 2 creative and/or original shows and about 20 moe/slice of life trash to go with it.

[@IamLegendAnon]

@@wilmhosenfeld1777 True, but I'd say anime has had a small renaissance in the past few years, partially due to Western infliuence and commision, with the shows worth watching being a few a year (even as many as 1 or 2 a season) rather than 1 or 2 a year imo.

[@jonsnor4313]

Anime has still some very good movies and series. Yes the older stuff can be better but there are new quality anime, and cartoons. Anime still has some counter anime culture anime, and some good adaptions. But they make far too much ill paced or plain bad anime series.

[@BmikroB]

That Aladdin scene comparison hit me much harder than I expected... :((

[@philippine2240]

Yeah me too ! also the rythm of the song was really slower, I felt betrayed by Disney, how can you screw up two of the most amazing songs of all time so badly ? I mean if you wanted to rap, change the sogs of the movie and make them rap songs god dammit !!!!! it would have been so interesting if instead of redoing the movie shot by shot they had made a new one...

[@ImmortalFlister]

Yeah, it hit me as BS since he clearly based it on the 30 second clip released online and not the full scene, which does feature the things he said were missing,

[@ImmortalFlister]

@@philippine2240 I get the impression you haven't actually seen the movie but only a few clips. The film is vastly different to the original in many ways.

[@Chrysaetos3]

I know right? I mean, how else can you get peacocks to have that smug expression without being weird and creepy? What about the exagerrated physical features of the characters - think the Sultan, small, squat, adorable old man who would look like a dwarf in real life, tall, thin, wicked Jafar and the animals, what a good job they do on the expressions of the animals! Moving away from Aladdin, how about Jessica Rabbit's design? The way they're drawn says so much about them just from a single glance, even more than costume and style can alone. How else do you use body language that defies all physics? That scene on the balcony where the three girls swoon into Genie's arms all fanning out, how much more artistic can you get? Put those on a realistic CGI form and we're smack bang in the middle of uncanny valley. CGI is great and I will forever appreciate Toy Story and Pixar, but it doesn't work for everything.

[@ienjoysandwiches]

Wow. Yes. It cut to the quick.

[@undeadknight01]

Disney's just cashing in on Millennials nostalgia and selling out our childhoods. Show your kids the originals, not these heartless remakes!

[@Kicksno1fan]

i think cinderella and maleficent were the only good ones. they actually kept parts of the story but made it their own (and more interesting) in one way or another. cinderella still has that disney magic and message of pure kindness, and maleficent told its own unique story of a misunderstood villain. i just think theyre great, but the recent ones have just been the same exact line for line copy, and it doesnt work since the animation will always trump live action...

[@daringspino3446]

@@Kicksno1fan The Lion King remake is lazy af. They even remove the trio hyenas. Just why? The movie itself is really garbage. Hell I will watch Animal Planet and it's better than this crap.

[@CarloNassar]

No, they still make movies that are not remakes. The problem is that they're not as popular.

[@matthewsoucy9073]

Kicksno1fan Don’t Forget The Jungle Book

[@crawlingboy]

@@daringspino3446 eh they removed edd the hyena the crazy one as well what the absolute hell

[@kikismiley11]

Just so you know, CGI movies *do* cost more than hand drawn.

[@Gir0Fan0Number01]

Exactly! I always hear people say "Oh, but it's more cost effective" like no it's not. It's just as expensive, often more so than 2D animation. Sure, you get reusable assets, but rendering takes time and can be tricky, rigging is a nightmare, and making the models is time costly, especially for a one time use. There are bugs and glitches, and fixing them makes more, and so on. And the higher the quality the more time it takes, and the more money it costs

[@irokosalei5133]

CGI handles perspective more easily whereas it's a nightmare with 2D drawings and you can edit everything separately. It costs less and has less cons.

[@derpyhawker]

I think a large factor in making movies cgi is that while they are more expensive, cgi studios tend not to be unionized while traditional studios are

[@erenjaeger9579]

It depends on the duration used. As cgi takes less time more money spent gives profit while 2d animation takes long time so even if it takes less money per time period it'll add up to be more than cgi.

[@thomasffrench3639]

It does, but it also is less successful and doesn’t turn as big of a profit, and does make less sense to make

[@zeemod1556]

While Alladin is already out (and not great but not terrible) I feel like the new Lion King is the far more egregious example Hollywood cynicism of bastardizing and subsequently burying Disney's 2D legacy.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

And Lion King is actually more promising if this is stay true to the animated tale.

[@Kittsuera]

@@poweroffriendship2.0 If they fail to make the characters feel emotionally real the whole thing could implode. Imo I think they went too far with the realism and lost the things that make the characters stand out. based on Aladdin they will keep much of the script and framing the same but the animal characters will fall flat. for Aladdin that means a few side characters. for the Lion king that means the entire cast. the trailers have done nothing but further raise that worry that they wont instill a connection with the audience. no one will end up caring what happens to the characters. =/ I hope they got it right but i dont see any evidence. further in terms of toys who is to say that that character is not just a random toy lion. or that google image isn't a real lion.

[@DeathKitta]

Animals' faces can't be that expressive and we already see Disney is making them as realistic as possible, so we'll have a lion cub looking at his dad's corpse with the blankest expression ever.

[@ericholysword8306]

That’s what they get for bastardizing kimba the white lion lol

[@MistCellaneous-5]

You know what the irony is? Disney can photo manipulate documentaries now. think about it, with hyper realistic animals, Disney can make whatever f****** b******* documentary they want and how they wanted to end up. that's what I saw when I saw the trailer, they can easily just Photoshop an animal and make up a random scene just for the sake of shock value. it almost made me remember that infamous lemming documentary that Disney produced, you know the one we're clearly the lemmings look like they're being thrown over a cliff in California?

[@coolbeans5911]

I loved Treasure Planet. Definitely in my top 5 favourite Disney films

[@PhenomSage]

Mine too! I actually had to stop myself from just watching through the entire movie again as I was editing this video haha, such an easily rewatchable film

[@CristianMartinez-hg6xu]

@@PhenomSage I love Brother Bear and I think it's better than Brave

[@greendaleforever]

Jim's song, man......the theme to my existence in this world.

[@fatmahassan3235]

Same

[@Aldoz]

My favourite Disney movie for sure

[@internuf5754]

You shouldn't stop the progress But you shouldn't also forget your past

[@bolbyballinger]

Except the switch from live action is not the squirrel finding a higher branch but just finding a different one.

[@internuf5754]

@@bolbyballinger My point was just that we shouldn't forget the hand-drawn animation

[@alienspacebat5218]

There comes a time in everyone's life when he is confronted by the new generation and told that his time to change the world is past and to move aside for them. The secret at this point is to plant your feet like a tree's roots beside the river of truth, look them all straight in the eye and tell them, "No, YOU move."

[@artificus7316]

One Word: Klaus.

[@avilesjuangaming]

Just what I was thinking. Great movie.

[@Sileithel]

Ughhh finally a comment that mentions it!! Amazing movie that certainly gives hope. It was robbed of its well-deserved Oscar.

[@timsonss]

It was on netflix, not in the cinemas

[@Cpruett]

Really really really hope that tech doesn't get locked up in business bullshit-ery.

[@Dumbledoresarmy13]

It totally deserved that Oscar, but I guess it goes to show how many films 'the academy' don't watch

[@karacar5473]

1:48, ouch, never knew that my favorite movies were so underrated

[@Fehru]

agree. Three best movies. Add Mulan (but mostly 1st) and The Emperor's New Groove - you have all my fav disney movies!

[@sceroye3538]

@@Fehru I'm actually really surprised. Those movies were the shit when I was a kid. Everyone at school had seen them and talked about them. It just doesn't add up.

[@annalcal4534]

tatee ;3; The best is The Lion King!

[@IGamingStation]

I honestly think with these movies, they weren't as heavily marketed as Frozen or Finding Nemo. Hell, BRAVE, another CGI movie that's underrated, wasn't heavily marketed.

[@sirhighroller9036]

@@annalcal4534 very true

[@patrickblanchette4337]

1:47 Man, I loved Atlantis: The Lost Empire growing up!

[@jazminebrown6543]

Ey you ain't the only one

[@gianghuynh8120]

Yup buddy yup...*tears dripping*

[@prashant_kerung_thegim0709]

Same bruh Am shocked

[@tdfern1]

Hopefully that gets a worthy reboot.

[@OfficialDeejayW]

I just watched it for the first time the other day and I was all about it. I think the ending is a little sloppy, but I’d be all for a remake. I wish the movie had been longer cause it has such a cool style

[@rolandodr98]

I prefer 2D animation so much more. It feels like you can get away with more and so much more expressive

[@xnonutnovemberx9545]

With you on that one. An animation I would highly recommend is Shoujo Ramune because it shows you the freedom of what's possible with 2D.

[@m_.agicity1069]

Oh nO-

[@CryingZombie666]

Hand-drawn animation needs to be a thing again. And I don't mean disney returning to their roots. Fuck disney. I want new people to make hand-drawn animation with new ideas, creating next generation of animation giants. When talking about western animation, disney ain't what appears in my mind, nor dickelodeon, no. And I prefer the cartoon titles to the companies behind them. When talking about western animation, Thundercats ( fuck the 2011 series and roar ), TMNT ( 80's ), Inspector Gadget, The Adventures of The Galaxy Rangers, Exosquad, X-Men The Animated Series, Batman The Animated Series, The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest, Mummies Alive! and fucking Captain Planet and The Planeteers are on my mind. If western animation is to make a comeback, creativity and the balls to aim animation at adults need to return.

[@majamystic256]

I like variety I just don't like one style, I like alot of styles All styles of animation have good sides and bad sides and we should have a variety of all types of animated movies

[@m_.agicity1069]

@@CryingZombie666 You said it! We need some new hand drawn an original plot animation company's for once. Can't deny that Studio Ghibli is quite beautiful. But sadly they are also owned by Disney, it's time to bring hand drawn back.

[@Tuonenkalla]

Funnily enough, up to this day, Treasure Planet is my number 1 favorite Disney movie. The only good thing I see in its failure in box office is the fact it never got maimed by a second movie.

[@colanemo]

its my fave too and i gotta agree, i know a lot of fans of it are begging for the sequel but it just didnt sound good tbh.. atleast it went out with dignity

[@quraishiaothman9284]

ooohh I 200% agree wholeheartedly! I am so attached and protective over Treasure Planet. While I want to see more of it, I am glad there was no sequel.

[@cara-seyun]

They had a plan for a sequel, and sad to say, it actually looked really good, following Jim when he joins the academy

[@kevinaguilar7541]

Where were you guys when the film was released on theaters?

[@cara-seyun]

@@kevinaguilar7541 not born

[@cousinJackee]

I feel like live action is an even greater threat than just having CGI movies. I'd take a CGI remake over a "live action" remake (the Lion King 'live action' does not count) any day.

[@softkogarashi5105]

All of it. I agree 💯

[@klubpingwina4336]

Dragon Ball Evolution

[@user-xh6ju3pg8c]

Leave it alone it's animation

[@cara-seyun]

CGI, live action, neither are ‘threats’. Both are just a medium to tell stories. Criticize the companies who only care about money and profit, not the film types.

[@tsurugi5]

@@cara-seyun live action is an inherently more restrictive type of medium than animation, so yes, they are threats, to creativity and ingenuity

[@blushu7941]

"adventure time" "Still being made to this day" HMMMMMM

[@cozyspacebear]

im cry

[@NicolasDahm]

The Emperor's New groove is a masterpiece

[@mushroomhead3619]

Pull the lever Kronk! Wrong leveeeeeer!

[@NicolasDahm]

@@mushroomhead3619 Squeak squeak squeakens

[@mushroomhead3619]

Why do we even have that lever? (Slaps crocodile that whimpers like a dog) Mmmmm maybe to get rid of Batman?

[@RakusaStudios]

"Nobody is intetested in paying for 2D animated movies" Well, I wouldn't say nobody, but fewer and fewer. 2D is more painstaking. In the end it's all about business, money, ROI, bla bla bla. Less about the art and creativity.

[@lemonadethefifthp389]

Unfortunately, I don't think Western hand animation will make a comeback. As you said, CGI is more cost-effective and brings in more money. It makes me sad, though, how Disney seems so eager to forget hand animation for the sake of what they think would appeal more to audiences (I mean, look at all the new live-action remakes they're releasing). However, there are still some lesser known Western studios such as Cartoon Saloon that continue to produce beautiful hand-animated films. Other studios like Laika also work on stop-motion animation, which I personally think is a very underrated and painstaking art form. So yeah, at least Western animation hasn't completely transitioned to CGI / completely forgot about animation in general. Anyway, there's always anime :)

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Well, at least Mary Poppins: Returns made traditional animation a comeback this year. The executives originally made the movie CGI but the director wants to keep it traditional to stay true to the original movie. And he actually won the case. So, I guess those a-hole executives really got what they deserved.

[@Dell-ol6hb]

LemonadeTheFifth:p I think people will inevitably tire of CGI animation films if it doesn’t advance the art form like Into The Spider Verse did, and so I think maybe in the far future people will eventually crave 2D animation again and movie studios will switch back to creating 2D animation projects.

[@tdfern1]

@@Dell-ol6hb similar animation like Telltale Games.

[@crinsombone5380]

The perception of 2d animation is changing. It could make a comeback

[@Adrians_Lost_and_Found_Visions]

@@crinsombone5380 hope so

[@Soaring_Penguin]

Plot twist: They are making so many horrid live action remakes to make people go back and appreciate the animated films more, thus making 2D popular again 👌

[@SirBlackReeds]

Talking about things not going according to plan, huh? ;)

[@bongobliss5795]

Also taking more cash on the way

[@Comkill117]

jacoblgames I wish, but these things do absurdly well for how bad they are.

[@krattenfnatten]

Yes. And most of the merch they release when the live-action movies hit are from the original classic movies. And people eat it up. When Aladdin hit theaters, our shops were filled with Robbin Williams Genie and cartoon Jasmine shirts. Lion King came out, and all the clothes and items I see from the mall, yep, shelves filled with the original drawn characters. Disney knows, that even if the live-action remakes don't do well, customers and companies are re-interested in buying and producing merch for those properties

[@malahamavet]

For me, it's working😂

[@sociallyineptspider-man2366]

Let's be honest here. Japan has perfected traditional animation, the only thing that needs to change is the working conditions

[@jaysefgames1155]

They even worked out hand drawn 3d animation but it's too hard and time consuming to be used in actual scenes, so it's just used for camera pans occasionally

[@jaysefgames1155]

Some studios get it right

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

Eh not really, most anime is badly animated because of said working conditions and the cost of animating, the breakouts have their great animation in quick bursts and are rare

[@sociallyineptspider-man2366]

@Zachle Mentor I'm talking about pencil to paper animation, anything done with cgi isn't traditional

[@sociallyineptspider-man2366]

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 dude, the amount of anime that's badly animated is in the minority, not the majority, almost every single anime is animated extremely well, the sakuga moments aren't " hey look some good animation for once" its "hey look we've saved our absolute best for a rare moment

[@LKonstantina915]

Blender has this grease pencil mode where you can paint 2d into 3d scenes. A lot of creators have made amazing renders of 3D scenes combined with 2D characters.

[@nivindevarajan]

Exactly. Blender Grease Pencil is pretty much Disney's Deep Canvas but totally packaged as a free software. The applications are limitless when it comes to creating mindblowing hand drawn animations. Also check out Krita, another free software; which also has a wonderful hand drawn animation tool.

[@maxiking8272]

The thing is that Disney's master animators are a dying breed. They couldn't put the old studio back together even if they wanted to.

[@konkonart7128]

True, but is making clones of the older Disney's master animators such a good thing? I would say that the old masters should be used as stepping stones for the newer generation of animators, using the fundamentals pioneered the the masters in combination with the latest developments in technology to create something entirely new. In a way, animation is no different from any other form of art (painters and sculptors usually look to the past for lessons/inspiration). The flaw is the 'making something entirely new' part, Pixar has an established style, but there needs to be more than that. Spiderverse is a step in the right direction, making an animated movie of equivalent quality without making it look like 'Pixar clone'. Just needs more of that.

[@Elderahn]

We also have to recognize that the generational shift in creative talent is going to start moving the point of inspiration forwards as time passes. The people who got their first spark of artistic inspiration from Shrek, Pixar movies, and Video games, will make their voices heard. Whilst wanting to preserve the work of the 'old men' at Disney and see it live on is admirable, it is just invariably going to move into the noise of history in due time.

[@Swingset25]

Actually I heard that the only professional 2d animators left at Disney are 2 guys who do the projections on the castle at Disneyland.

[@fireemberess]

@@Swingset25 that's really fucking sad

[@adityamakeyourway908]

In some way anime is the only last way to save western animation

[@mazillax468]

Some people just don't appreciate hand animation....

[@afiamahmood1313]

And just animation in general....

[@OMGitsKITTYSMITTY]

I love hand drawn animation it's fluid it ages very well and it'll look good for generations

[@pyrophobia133]

that's Hollywood's old guard problem

[@c-man2475]

@@afiamahmood1313 yeah they rather watch reality shows and soap operas but when u watch cartoons (cgi,2d,anime etc),everyone makes a big deal about it.

[@karenstrong6734]

I don’t understand why people don’t appreciate hand animation. I just love hand animation, because I love drawing.

[@hawshimagical]

i know why western 2d animation is dying. in anime, the art is more detailed, but outside of action scenes, the animation is so stiff and minimal. in western, they had so many frames of movement in every scene, but simple art. animes focus on detail is just way more mareketable. the west didnt want to sacrifice fluid animation, so for more detail, to grab more attention, they had to switch to 3d.

[@orangeslash1667]

whoooooo!!!!!!!!! That makes sense .

[@booboobunny5655]

Interesting, but I don’t think more detail is necessarily important for animation. It just has to look good and convey a story, people would still enjoy it.

[@orangeslash1667]

Or Maybe America as a species is getting dumber compared to Europe or Japan, since CG only that popular in America. I mean Why else anyone chose Trump over Clinton when he has very smug look on his face???????

[@orangeslash1667]

@Thot Patrol USA Trump is just one example. The fact that the Disney Remakes continue to sell well. Makes me think that Americans have lower standers for entertainment compared to Europe and Japan????

[@YuKaKariyu]

@@orangeslash1667 You realize equating politics and entertainment is kind of useless right.....

[@robertsmith2110]

Idk what your channel does but the quality of this video made me subscribe. Enjoyed

[@buffy2513]

Omg so true

[@MegamanZero410]

Princess and the frog also came out at a terrible time.

[@zamangwanezikhali2681]

why do you say that?

[@MegamanZero410]

Zamangwane Zikhali it came out too close the a much more anticipated movie. Avatar. Which took all the the attention during that year. Was it a decent movie, yes, but when it had a juggernaut of a movie bound down on it no one would remember it due to the affect Avatar had. If they released princess and the frog after the holiday season. Maybe it would’ve done better. But it could’ve been a marketing move by Disney too. Animators wanting to work on 2D films, Disney wanting to maximize profits, setting the movie up for failure to further their story that 2D doesn’t sell. Therefore able to scrap the division and work more on 3D.

[@zamangwanezikhali2681]

@@MegamanZero410 Aw damn, that sucks!! The people up top always have their own agendas, makes you really think if they care at all about art :( Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me :D

[@hillarywoo4977]

​@@MegamanZero410 I also don't think Princess and the Frog was given a fair shot in the studio to begin with. It felt more like a throwaway movie, something that had been floating around in production limbo for a while and so the higher-ups at Disney just said, "Whatever, get it done, get it out." It just didn't feel like there was a lot of love in that movie at all.

[@salemsaberhagan]

And it featured a black princess with a black prince while Tangled had a blonde barbie doll but not like THAT had anything to do with it right *cough cough*

[@misseli1]

So glad you made a video on Western 2D animation specifically. Every time someone talks about missing 2D animation, someone pipes in saying anime exists. Yes we're aware and Japanese animation deserves appreciation. But it's very distinct from Western 2D animation. Even the frames per seconds are different. And people are allowed to want both, to want more variety in 2D animation.

[@RedfurredPikachu]

I love anime so much mostly because it is still 2d animaton. Still that shouldn’t be the only place to go to for a traditional 2d film. I had hoped the success of the newest Dragon ball movies as well as the one for My hero Academia would’ve started a new surge of it.

[@michaelxz1305]

anime is a niche, some people love it but it definitely isn't for everyone

[@VayBabe]

THANK YOU. Japanese anime is amazing, I've been a huge fan since the 90's, but I don't want to have to go to another culture and watch something with subtitles every time I want decent 2D animation. It is culturally and cosmetically different from traditional Western 2D animation. I'd like a balance of both.

[@RedfurredPikachu]

@@VayBabe Yeah I agree, and the two chances we had recently have been MLP and Teen Titans go. My Little Pony still had that stigma of "well it's my little pony so it won't be good" mentaility so money wise it didn't do great and then Teen Titans Go shouldn't have done well, critics cut it a lot of slack very stupidly and if it had actually done well it would've only spread that notion of well it's for kids so we don't have to try as hard. The show is bad and the movie was just an extension of that. Into the Spider Verse might've sparked something but as of right now that's not really clear.

[@STARPHASE]

Not to mention anime has very different story telling compared to western story telling. It's all very different, and some of it is hard to get into. I love anime, but I'm very picky about which ones I like, and hate a lot of the most popular ones(Naruto, Bleach, ect). I just can't get into the story and/or characters. Anime, from the standpoint of someone who doesn't watch it, just sees it as weird. Anime has a bad reputation because what non-anime fans see is the bad aspect. The whole 'weeb' thing alone can keep people away, because that's all they think it is. But someone being a 'weeb' is just the same as people who are disney fanatics. They own every movie, know every song, have annual passes to Disneyland, ect. They just don't understand that. Anime is great. There's bad anime shows out there, there's fan service shows out there, but the same can be said about any form of western entertainment. The majority of the western world just has blinders on that says 'ew anime is for weirdos.' Which sucks. But the stigma is dwindling.

[@zita7255]

I feel like into the spiderverse is a perfect combination of cgi and 2d

[@tenah7931]

Treasure planet is sooo underrated...

[@Varies16]

@Mammoth Supremacy 55 Also Brother Bear!

[@Iv3y_Lamar]

huntchback of notre dame, the black cauldron, sword in the stone, aristocats, sinbad, joseph king of dreams, prince of egypt, arabian knights, who framed roger rabbit, thumbelina, heavy metal. . . etc.

[@tenah7931]

@@Varies16 Yeah, you are soo right. It's one of my all time favorite. The animation and story are so beautiful and uniqe.

[@tenah7931]

@@Iv3y_Lamar I was talking in the name of TP, but sure, there are plenty of other movies.

[@Varies16]

@@tenah7931 The story was awesome. I enjoyed the fact that they considered to make a story about their culture of animal's spirit. There should more stories like this.

[@colinlestina2396]

Thank you studio Ghibli. Very cool

[@paozan4855]

I come from the future, they switched to 3d and their last film is unwatchable

[@Stella-nv5jk]

Tbh 2D animations was what made me intrested to enter the animation industry. The lines and flow. Luv it.

[@DRUMCANJONES22]

Same

[@mmariankaa]

Klaus restored my faith in hand drawn animation (even tho it combines a few other techniques, it mixes them together to a perfect visually beautiful movie). I wish more studios and animators would bring back the magic that is 2D animation and with the technology we have nowadays it can become something more, something new and fresh.

[@Tomani02]

I'm no animator nor artist but I'm pretty sure that one needs to master 2D animation before starting to learn 3D animation.

[@arxiene5998]

Your opinion made me think of Aladdin differently and now I’m mad

[@eliraeclipse2435]

Ikr but it still doesn't change my love with the live action.

[@dancingmadman2340]

Honestly what he’s saying about Aladdin doesn’t make sense. The types of stunts the characters can do in drawn animation cannot be done in live action, it’s just physically impossible. Look at that seen again and tell me I’m wrong.

[@arxiene5998]

Ânōręxįč Ełęphænt Right

[@helenaperez4343]

(Ânōręxįč Ełęphænt) That’s the point. Why remake something beloved if you can’t keep the heart of the original?

[@arxiene5998]

Eggy Does Stuff Well it’s live action and different directors. The feel of the movie form the original will not always feel the same. They have to make it realistic. Like the scene “Prince Ali”, they couldn’t do flips or tricks. Aladdin (Mena M. I think) also didn’t smile and feel like he knew what to do because it would just feel off for most people. He’s frightened and doesn’t know what he’s doing in the movie. That’s something nobody would have thought of. And it’s actually good to see something new instead of it being EXACT or very similar.

[@princessthyemis]

I want to bring 2D animation BACK!!!!!

[@Adrians_Lost_and_Found_Visions]

yep, would be great :)

[@pauljs75]

Might be more up to amateurs on the internet now. At least digital 2D animation tools are relatively cheap now if not free. But even with that, it's still a lot of work to create something. The harder part might be promoting it and getting word out there.

[@desuwa1994]

@@pauljs75 It's called ANIMU

[@bigbangpegasusmaster]

On tv it's going well (though scheduling tends to be terrible), but yeah, I mean, how many 2d animated western movies were released on theatres this decade? MLP and TTG are the only ones that come to mind

[@BothHands1]

Same! Hand drawn animation has so much more life and character

[@Trunkalunx]

Don’t forget, what also matters is a magnificent story & absolutely memorable characters. Need not look any further than The Lion King for an example. Edit: Holy fucking shit! I'm going to end this whole flame war once and for all. All the people in here complaining about Kimba the White Lion vs. The Lion King! Goddamn, all I just wanted to say was that Hollywood should stop making garbage for kids like The Emoji Movie, Trolls, The Good Dinosaur, Small Foot, Peter Rabbit, and all of the fucking Disney live action remakes of their own movies. Instead they should more on making epic or good stories like Prince of Egypt, Inside Out, The Lego Movie, etc. I'm sick and tired of kid movies being too afraid like they don't want to take risks being more memorable with epic storytelling. The best movies for kids are the ones with the most re-watchability (even as you grow up into an adult). kzbin.info/www/bejne/ap_He5WsZpx8nqM As for those of you complaining about originality & plagiarism, go watch this Adam Ruins Everything's video about it, because you'll learn that no matter how hard you try to write something original, your story has already been done previously by someone else. The Lion King & Kimba the White Lion are both from Shakespeare's Hamlet. Hell, even Shakespeare himself copied his work from others. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZrSdIyBj9NpnNE And finally, before all of you start pointing fingers at me defending Disney, I also know that Disney is just as megalomaniacal as any other company. Hell, they lobbied congress to extend copyrights for their own benefit at the expense of others, making it harder for things to go into the public domain. All stories and art eventually fall into the public domain whether you like it or not. The public domain is important because it protects us from getting sued from other bigger companies. Remixing the works of the past has, is, & will always be a reoccurring thing. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZqoiZqmpZhqhNE Seriously, all of you bitching, get a life! As for everyone else here who was smarter than them, thanks for the likes on my comment if you were smart enough to know what I was talking about before I even had to fucking gush it all out for all of the dipshits here. I appreciate it.

[@mayuritathe8158]

Now say I slay

[@steph.li3]

Trunx The Hunchback Of Notre Dame was phenomenal

[@princesspikachu3915]

You mean The Lying King that ripped off Jungle Emperor Leo/Kimba? That movie owes it's success to an obscure anime and manga series from the 1950's and 1960's. Don't make me laugh.

[@princesspikachu3915]

@Sebastian Suazo Gaete You sir are a wise man who does his homework.

[@muiclover2580]

Princess Pikachu the only things that are the same r kimba simbas names lmao go off girl and gtfo

[@TimidIzzy]

Part of why I like Tangled so much is because when they were working on the film, they did want to give it gags and visuals that could very well show up in a hand-animated film. They wanted it to have the appeal of hand animation and feel like it, while still using the CGI medium. And I think it did well! The slapstick humor in it is very reminiscent of hand-animated Disney films in a way that not many CGI films seem to pull off.

[@Psycopathicus]

I don't think traditional animation is dead, exactly. As you pointed out, anime is booming right now, and there have been a few quite interesting hand-animated films coming out of France in recent years. Yes, in America it's not doing so well at the moment, but I do recall Disney making a statement a few years back saying that they weren't giving up on the style entirely, as so much of their history was tied up in it, and that every now and then they would make a new movie featuring it. This was a while ago, mind you, and they haven't really followed up on that just yet, but their focus, it seems to me, has shifted away from animation in general - they're making a LOT fewer animated films than they used to since the MCU became their golden goose. Also, it's worth noting that stop-motion animation IS doing well. Every time a new stop-motion film comes out, it seems to do quite respectably, and while of course it's not the same thing as hand-drawn, they are of similar vintage, as it were. So long as one 'old-school' process remains successful, people are less likely to turn up their noses at a different one - especially with anime being such a huge thing at the moment. CGI may be cheap, but the entertainment industry still depends on giving the public what they want - and eventually, some fat cat producer or other is going to go 'hmm, this style is big at the moment. WE can do that... Hmm...'

[@koichidignitythief7429]

Those French animations can't go anywhere though without passing through the "Disney Wall". Most people over here in America don't give a shit about animation unless it has Disney. Fuck most people think movies made by Don Bluth or other third party studios are Disney movies.

[@Psycopathicus]

Well, sure, but that just makes the ones that ARE good stand out all the more. Anyway, the sheer amount of them means that, for good or ill, they can't help but be influential SOMEhow.

[@dennisconcepcion1108]

One still shining spot on hand drawn animation for me is DC Animation. From JLU to Young Justice, The New Frontier to Flashpoint, Western animation continues to ba an artform and storytelling medium that is enjoyable and entertaining.

[@broskydoodle6697]

Yeah, to be honest. The DC animated style is very stiff and hard to look at in my opinion. As much as I liked Flashpoint or The dark knight returns, movies like The Killing Joke adaptation made me sigh with how janky and slow paced they were

[@dennisconcepcion1108]

Too true. The tapered bodies of the JL and JLU took some time for me to get used to. Puffed upper torso then tapering off to the legs and feet. But you gotta have muscular calves. 😄

[@fitzhugh7463]

Dennis Concepcion the art style was fine, it’s just the movement that’s really clunky and cheap-looking

[@dennisconcepcion1108]

@@fitzhugh7463 too true

[@V1NCYN1CAL]

THANK YOU. My immediate thought when watching the Prince Ali scene of the Aladdin remake was dull, especially after watching the original.

[@etokoshina4195]

same omg and the remake of a whole new world made me so cringey

[@TheMadTurtle]

And 'Wow, Will Smith can't sing for shit...'

[@ratchetexperience8379]

The reason why it's dull is because it was too human in a words. Live action couldn't really capture what made the 2d original so otherworldly. It was very limited do to having real people with limited capabilities.

[@nojena37]

OH MY GOD!! YES!! Rise Of TMNT is so amazingly animated. Even though the story isn't the original one, but how it's animated just amazed me. It felt like Spiderman into the Spiderverse movie. I love it so much!

[@tomasvrabec1845]

2019 Me; Still watches 1938 Snow White alongside How to train your dragon and Japanese anime. You see I like art and each medium is excellent at showing us something different. Sculptures, paintings, anime, animation, CGI, webtoons and manga are all bit different but I like to jump from one to the other.

[@megano2000]

Amen, brother! I prefer hand animation to CGI, and I wish it'd return. :/

[@rassilontdavros3004]

Megan O I’m perfectly fine with CGI, the real problem is that it’s currently the _only_ medium of animation in Western cinema. I was particularly struck by how much I missed seeing hand-drawn animation in theaters when I saw _DBS: Broly_ on the big screen in January.

[@amicable5237]

Tarzan is highly underrated and I am furious about that

[@cerisejaxel9636]

My favorite movie! It’s gorgeous in so many ways.

[@Nasir3623]

But lion king is better

[@amicable5237]

Ilyas Adam no

[@jugemujugemugokonosurikire4735]

@@Nasir3623 But lion king IS STILL A DAMN COPY

[@Zakaria-xg1vu]

@@Nasir3623 you mean KIMBA ?

[@catflyxovo]

5 years later this is still pretty much relevant. Very nice video.

[@TrippyKitty08]

Eventually people will get bored of CG and it will go out of style. Everything runs its course.

[@DeathKitta]

I hope. It barely gives any diversity with visuals apart of detalisation.

[@JDReC100]

@@DeathKitta I agree to disagree with your statement

[@juuchanIRL]

@@JDReC100 all cgi follow the same trends. into the spiderverse was the first i've seen that tried to do something different, i don't have high hopes for 3d animation.

[@ellentaylor6883]

Thats why I liked the spider verse so much. It had such a distinguished art style which was refreshing in the cinamatic climate of cg movies looking almost the same.

[@juuchanIRL]

@@ellentaylor6883 there's a saying in my country : you can't make spring with but one flower. i'm afraid one good, well animated movie isn't going to save the movie industry. there needs to be a big shakeup in order for more movies like that to appear and i don't see it happening in the foreseeable future, not even from disney. but hey, i appreciate the effort that went into it.

[@ancientbuns6770]

Treasure planet one of the best movies, a great mix of both 2D and CGI

[@tdfern1]

It wasn't perfect but it was something else.

[@annalcal4534]

Ancient Buns No it isn't!

[@tamarleahh.2150]

The character design was ugly

[@avayehvasch7991]

I think if 2D American animation is not as loud as it used to be, the animation festivals and the market in Europe still celebrate the art of hand drawn animation, and for their survival, many collaborations with the far east industries are happening. At the end of the day this is a business and people need to show their support for good quality entertainment, and not pay for fast-produced animation devoid of passion and soul. That's how we communicate with the creators and companies. *shrugs*

[@vanthonvenus]

the problem was never descending to cgi the problem is live-action

[@voltgaming2213]

LillyCookies DDAENG CGI is a problem

[@korononjjjdirjfjfjtj2680]

@@voltgaming2213 no

[@cocj4727]

@@korononjjjdirjfjfjtj2680 yes

[@nathanmontgomery1516]

@@cocj4727 no

[@gablit-gt8kk]

Calarts is enough to hurt your brain

[@maeg.9123]

Title: What happened to western animation? Me: Uh everything that shouldn’t have happened

[@SoraFlora95]

The background of this video is amazing. So much work was put into making my eyes stay glued to the screen lol 👍🏻🙃

[@gwenmaisybug3864]

Heck yeah! Loved the background

[@o0Avalon0o]

I really enjoyed this vid & the editing is clearly top notch, but it didn't touch on the fact that *Disney purposefully squashed treasure-planet.* Don't take my word for it, see for yourself. Its well-documented.

[@unoriginalhazard]

I'll need to give this a look, treasure planet is one of my favourite films of all time.

[@rassilontdavros3004]

I’ll need to look into that... after I finally get around to watching it.

[@LittleMongoosie]

While I agree with a lot of your opinions, I would have titled this "What Happened to United States Animation" because other "western" countries (France, Ireland, etc) are still making hand-animated films-- aimed at adult audiences as well as children-- that have gained tremendous success. But you really only seemed to talk about Disney and pixar, not even Dream Works or Richard Williams' studio. So you say "western" but really seem to mean "U.S." and give Japan credit for keeping hand animation alive, but give no mention to the companies behind "Triplets of Belleville," "Book of Kells," "Song of the Sea," and many more. Was there any particular reasoning for this?

[@virz4432]

USA. America is a wide continent. And islands. Since we are being more precise. The United States is NOT "America".

[@LittleMongoosie]

@@virz4432 good point, edit made

[@austinreed7343]

LittleMongoosie And yet they never get brought over here. French Animation has become insular.

[@aerialpunk]

I haven't heard of any of those but I'd like to check them out. I feel almost like we need a streaming service that includes everyone but the US, just so we can see some of the great stuff others are putting out.

[@stalloneandrew9961]

Asia and Eastern Animations: So are we gonna just suffer from forgotten?

[@TBoneTony]

One Word, Money. Money as well as normies going to CGi films for the looks instead of trying to give all films a chance.

[@addicted2p0rn]

I don't really think it's for the looks I mean come on Princess and the Frog nobody wants to see that whether its 2d or 3d.

[@hotwax9376]

@@addicted2p0rn Agreed. Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh failed due to bad timing and bad marketing, not because they were traditionally animated.

[@addicted2p0rn]

@@hotwax9376 yeah the video implies these movies failed because they were 2d and people just wanted 3d. no they failed because they were movies about a talking llama and a blue alien who visits Hawaii.

[@andrawyawikrama5620]

​@@addicted2p0rn I don't know about you but I loved Lilo & Stitch when it was released still do actually. I think it appeals more to girls for some reason, every other girl in school had a merchandise of Stitch at some point, be it keychain, doll, or water bottle. Regardless, It was very successful, it had three movies and a series after all. It also got a spin-off anime in 2008-2011 AND a chinese animation series that released recently 2017-2018. They didn't "fail" at all. Though I can't speak for the western market, I am from Asia after all.

[@Avi2Nyan]

Capitalism be like that, yeah :/

[@dusanbursac5012]

Best question is. What happened to Disney's story telling?

[@EsotericOccultist]

It's saturated in political correctness now.

[@cestalia]

DEAD. Just like my hope and dream. RIP originality. I really love story like UP and Coco tho

[@tangroro]

They love to make fun of their classic story telling like many people do online, thus all the cringy jokes about princess or romance are made in Frozen, Moana, and Wreck it Ralph 2, that weren't funny and also disrespectful and annoying

[@crawlingboy]

@@EsotericOccultist pretty much

[@ragingshibe]

*Gone. Reduced to Atoms*

[@officaldaelight]

disney: traditional animation can't be successful anymore makoto shinkai: hold my beer

[@NevisYsbryd]

You mean hold their sake?

[@tdfern1]

Hayao Miyazaki: Hold my other alcoholic beverage.

[@BeamingBrute]

How to train your dragon 3's animation is stunning!

[@asmasaidoun2524]

True

[@kurisucosmo7954]

Agree! Great example of masterful CG animation

[@lindenlynx]

YES! Can we talk about the sand? THE FREAKING SAND IS SO GOOD AAAA I LOVE THIS SERIES

[@jugemujugemugokonosurikire4735]

SO IS THE PLOT

[@Fantallana]

BeamingBrute if only the story wasn’t heartbreakingly disappointing and rushed.

[@moistestslug5749]

I love that both Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles and How To train your dragon were mentioned positively here, both amazing pieces of media. I love that How to Train Your Dragon managed to give personality to cgi animation, even when it’s cgi it still feels like it has some wacky scenes reminiscent of the old days of animation

[@evrypixelcounts]

Treasure Planet.....the pinnacle of western animation, FIGHT ME!!!!

[@frankjaeger2565]

The Iron Giant.

[@ruxis8179]

An underrated gem for sure It's an awesome movie but I THINK they didn't advertise it much 'cause Lilo and Stitch was coming out at a similar time So they pushed for that more than TP. Barely made any money and very few people watched it Really sad tbh

[@doctor_whoey3857]

It had the makings of greatness in it But it didn't take the helm, and plot it's own course

[@killswitchlee123]

The “bumping the lamp” technique in Who Framed Roger Rabbit is the BEST example of Western Animation.

[@rassilontdavros3004]

I really should watch it sometime. My parents never owned a copy (for reference, I was born in the late 90s) so it was one of those Disney movies I just never saw as a kid.

[@beccag2758]

Legend of Korra is pretty... But Last Airbender's writing and story is world's better in my opinion

[@eitakou]

Same Korra's timeline felt messy but both are awesome

[@Youneedalex]

I'm one of the few that prefers LOK over ATLA😭

[@felixcharles9773]

The Last Airbender has more consistently better animation imo

[@rassilontdavros3004]

I consider LOK more flawed than the original, but still a worthwhile follow-up. I’m one of the people who actually doesn’t mind that Aang and Toph weren’t very good parents, because it was easy to see how their flaws had shaped their mistakes. With that said, I do think it was out of Katara’s character to apparently never call either of them out on this, and the complete absence of Azula, Ty Lee, Mai, Suki and (to a lesser extent) Sokka was disappointing.

[@Youneedalex]

RassilonTDavros I think introducing those characters wasn’t necessary, it would have been just fan service. But I do get Soku but other rest wouldn’t link to Kora well.

[@ratzzi7301]

I love western animation better than CGI, always have and always will

[@Raspberryclouds8769]

Same here

[@artgatherer3477]

Cartoon network in 2011: We are going to stop all of our incredible hand-drawn action animations because no body is interested in them! Anime: let me introduce myself

[@thomasffrench3639]

I think since manga is increasing in popularity, it will probably have a negative impact on anime.

[@GribGFX]

I dont know if Traditional animation can make a come back but year by year the demand grows.

[@MrChannelforwatching]

grib That is a very good point. One of the reasons The Princess and the Frog failed in the box office was due to timing. I feel maybe in another couple of years, audiences will be more excited about going back to the traditional 2D Disney films.

[@jacquelineking5783]

I mean how many people are being taught or are learning 2D animation in the US?

[@warriormaiden9829]

@@jacquelineking5783 Consider this: When they added the hand animation in Mary Poppins Returns, nobody in their studios knew how to do it. They had to bring in older animators *out of retirement* just to do those bits.

[@jacquelineking5783]

Warrior Maiden while sad not surprising.

[@leizee1011]

THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING RISE OF THE TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES. It's so good and I really hope it grows in getting that positive attention it deserves

[@somecanadian_guy]

Honestly I prefer how 2D looks compared to 3D, just the art style is a lot nicer to look at

[@CryingZombie666]

When you look at hand-drawn Superman, you want to go hit the gym. When you look at hand-drawn Rogue, you want your girlfriend to be sexy like her. When you look at the 80's Lion-O, you want to have fucking SIGHT beyond fucking SIGHT!

[@majamystic256]

I don't prefer one over the other I think both are equally great when done right Variety is what is more needed... we need more good 2d animated movies but we also need more good 3d animated movies... we need variety and creativity

[@CryingZombie666]

@@majamystic256 Get your fucking diversity out of here, NPC.

[@Latinarama]

So basically making hand animated movies nowadays is like casting pearls before swine

[@crfstewarje4597]

Nope; look up the movie "Klaus"