What Happens When You Break the Rules of Tape Loops?

[@greggv8]

Send one to Techmoan in the UK. He loves weird audio tapes. Definitely want that sample in a fully clear shell so he can see and show how it works.

[@MaverickBlue42]

I second this idea

[@AlkalineSphere]

I third this idea

[@someguystudios23]

Joining the bandwagon, I fourth this idea

[@Vobzie]

I 5th The Idea

[@stowww]

I 6th this idea

[@NoelWatson-kg9qh]

just a note, as i trained as a tape editor 20 something years ago. cuts on tape are made usually at a 45 degree angle to prevent clicks, also reduces chances of a gap between beoth halves of the tape.

[@chadvanderlinden9548]

Exactly what I came here to say! 👍

[@cassandra-show]

I wanted to say the same thing! Always splice tape on an angle! A good splicing jig will have a 45 degree groove so you always get the cut perfect

[@fennex7575]

that's genius

[@DaniDogenigt]

and by"20 years ago" you mean the 80s right?

[@NoelWatson-kg9qh]

no i trained as a tape op in 2001. tape op is still a job believe it or not. not that I carried on to do it long. you tend to move up and out once you see how rotten it is at the top.

[@HellJustFroze]

I am impressed not only with the product itself, but also by the fact you only have 20 subscribers and managed to put together a concise, well-edited video, with good quality narration, detailed instructions... it echoes the production quality of much larger, more popular hobbyist channels. I'm the sort of dork that can watch any kind of content as long as the narrator is decent, and the video is coherent and at least mildly interesting, and you've succeeded on both fronts.

[@anntallexgamer4630]

Now 116 subs

[@HellJustFroze]

@anntallexgamer4630 oh good, the algorithm does work sometimes.

[@iturnknobs]

I really appreciate the kind words! I too am surprised how the algorithm picked this one up

[@06NinjaKid06]

@@HellJustFroze guess it really worked, 326 now

[@Kerffus]

@@iturnknobswe are approaching

[@JamieFisk]

now somebody just needs to cut a tape of "The Song that doesn't end" together and record it on this so that it will be a perfect loop. . .

[@polarknight5376]

20 iterations of What's New Pussycat interrupted a single time by It's Not Unusual.

[@weebjeez]

@@polarknight5376 This is the correct answer, yes.

[@Stu8621]

F**k.....now it's gonna be stuck in my head for the next month....thanks...........

[@HellJustFroze]

@@polarknight5376 _Hey, November Rain's over!_ *No it's not.* *_There's more._*

[@key_bounce]

Hey Jude Nah, nah, nah nah-nah- nah , nah-nah-nah-nah, na a nahhhh...

[@RicoElectrico]

I wonder about longevity of this roller. Rubber bands are unvulcanized rubber (latex) which inevitably disintegrates over time. And I mean way faster than belts used in cassette decks or turntablers - less than 5 years. Now, there's a whole range of oil-based conditioners made for latex clothing, but they would contaminate the tape. I swear I saw vulcanized rubber bands (black, less elastic) used as cable ties, but a quick search on Google shows there's a silicone variation available. A diameter smaller than a cassette roller, but this means no rubber splicing and supergluing would be necessary.

[@return2sender791]

You could cut a small slice of a tube for a bike tire. That stuff lasts forever. Ive used old tubes for all kinds of stuff.

[@kraftypk7283]

I bet you know about conditioning latex clothes

[@iturnknobs]

that’s a good point that I hadn’t considered. I suppose it’s simple enough to swap out a reel every once in a while, but that’s not exactly ideal. I did a lot of looking just for rubber bands but maybe I should’ve expanded my search. The suggestion of bicycle tire tubes is something I’m gonna look into

[@Khrrck]

​@@iturnknobs A square section O-ring of appropriate size might work. Or even round section. Depends on how wide the rubberized area needs to be.

[@CitizenSieyes]

I feel like you could use a bit of a vulcanized tape player belt in the same way you're using a rubber band

[@mattomanx77]

You were recommended on my front page. Dude went from 20 subscribers to 2,000 subscribers in 5 days. What a trip you must be having.

[@DJ-jx1yt]

Same. He erarned my sub, but this is his best video yet

[@onstr]

holy crap, man! Is this really your first video? I'm invested. This is brilliant.

[@glasslinger]

This is called a "random dump cartridge" and is used for reverb effects. I built one back in the 1990's that uses a cartridge 6 inches wide. It would run with great fidelity for several days of music. Eventually the fidelity would deteriorate and noise level increase. When electronic delay units got reasonable in price the old dump went to the dump!

[@iturnknobs]

that’s great to know! I tried every word combination I could think of to try to figure out what this type of set up is called but could never figure out what the actual name was.

[@miraidongaming]

"Hey man I turned over your tape to hear the other side" "AAAGH"

[@skibabopi]

HAHAHAHA That would be a mess XD

[@code9527]

I dont think it would do anything, since the left hole has a nonfunctional roller? Rewinding on the other hand would be disaster

[@miraidongaming]

@code9527 Yeah, I thought about it a little but I feel like this would've been funnier In retrospect accuracy comes first

[@erlendse]

@@code9527 More like it would be bad. The pinch roller in the player would pull the tape along making a huge uncontained mess.

[@bettafish541]

​@@erlendsesolution: replace it with a toothless ring that doesn't freely rotate and clears the rotator, now it'll do nothing

[@Rcmike1234]

Big props for releasing plans and 3d print files! Awesome project:)

[@TrapperAaron]

Love the fact you actually posted the .stl files! So many times i see people post things they "designed" and never post any design files. Job well done!

[@els1f]

Man, that cassette operating table is genius too!😱

[@salemsoundwaves1140]

Phenomenal work! I'd especially like to thank you for bringing up that tape splicing rig as I've been working with 1/4" and up exclusively due to my less-than-stable hands. Can't wait to give this a try and see how it might work for other formats!

[@ariadne2746]

i’ve worked on a bunch of tape delays in a repair context, and i suggest trying to control the amount of grip on either side so as to ensure the tensioning is consistent for various configurations of folds in the tape.

[@lazyrobotlabs]

Definitely need to see the 3 head delay breakdown.

[@iturnknobs]

I’m planning on putting together an in depth but easy to digest video on it! I gotta find another cassette recorder to make the tutorial!

[@kilgorezer]

What a cool project!

[@ociemitchell]

What's even more amazing is that this technique was used to mass produce tapes, and I think they were recorded at several times playback speed. How this doesn't just tangle into a giant knot amazes me.

[@charles.personal]

I am jealous of the professional portable tape recorder

[@semuta2752]

Beautiful project! It seems like the rubber band is probably the weakest link for longevity in the build. If you print a mold at the final size of the reel+band with a hub to center it, you could very easily mix up a little bit of type 1 silicone caulk(also the cheapest pure silicone caulk) and corn starch until it’s workable playdoh consistency and make incredibly resilient, repeatable, and well adhered rubberized reels. You get like 15 minutes of work time with it once it’s mixed up. Since silicone slightly shrinks when it cures, you could even get away with making a bunch of the rings in advance

[@robertgaines-tulsa]

The humble audio cassette just won't die, and that kind of makes me happy. It's been a while since I've played a tape, but for me it seems to be more satisfying and convenient than handling and spinning platters. If you keep your deck clean, it should give you trouble-free enjoyment.

[@AshliSincere]

would not have guessed this was your first video, really great stuff!

[@eedobee]

2:33 why Australia? What’s special about our bands

[@leifvejby8023]

I remember using a reel-recorder, and having the tape running around bottle necks all over the room - this is way neater!

[@afraidcone]

Please never stop making videos like this. I could watch this for hours.

[@flactemnad]

Back in 1989 I worked at a video/cassette duplication company and tape loops of different custom time lengths. I remember 3 minutes working in the standard loop case and it looked a bit like your project. If the customer needed up to 12 minutes it would require a very special case. These were often used for looping announcements in the days before digital. Think movie theater times and schedules, weather announcements, general information.

[@TrabberShir]

Assuming double sided tape, you could double your play time by adding a half twist guide in the tensioned section.

[@boriscat1999]

or record in a 4-track, flip it over and run it in reverse. and at half speed. (edit: I just realized that flipping it over won't work. LOL)

[@MudakTheMultiplier]

I would expect a half twist to get pulled into the mechanism eventually?

[@bluerendar2194]

Half twist could be designed to be constrained at one specific point in the mechanism.

[@ora_veugle]

wow, i'll certainly keep an eye on your channel. The editing, narration and of course the whole project is on point !

[@aaronburson1427]

Reinventing the 8 track.

[@theAristocrap]

Tip for glueing the rubber band. Dont glue the very very start of the band. Try to overlap the start and the end after you glued most of the rubber. Make the cut while both start and what will become the end overlapping. Make the cut - both ends are mirrored and should match perfectly. It will be harder the thicker the band is.

[@philaesfarewell]

Just wanted to mention... you are a genius!

[@ShiroKage009]

This is super neat! The mechanism is actually rather elegant.

[@someguy-k2h]

My dad had a reel to reel tape player he bought in Vietnam during the war. The most interesting thing about that was there were multiple speed adjustments you could make. I was confused the first time I saw a cassette tape and realized it didn't support this feature. It's a quick and easy way to make the tape you have hold a lot more data.

[@Xpurple]

This is how you grow a channel! Very good!

[@StolenPw]

I always wondered about these weird paths as a kid lol

[@LunarcomplexMain]

Ooooo I like how the tape being pulled by the rubber wheel continues with a loop at the end which allows it to be easily removed by that right side hook.

[@prozacgod]

I always wanted to do something like this for my old classic 8-bit computers. I wondered if I could build a system where I could store data on a tape loop that was constantly being recycled.

[@JonathansImprovements]

I thought of the same thing, like a delay memory you could pick up a large chunk of data and put back for different things the program is doing

[@sebbes333]

0:15 Just use a pinch-roller against the driving roller & now you don't need ANY more rollers (except maybe a guide-roller to make sure the tape enters the "reading area" from a "correct"-ish angle). 1:18 Yeah, like that. 🤔 You could double the length, by making it into a Mobius Strip by, cutting it, twisting (180*) & re-attach it again, so it becomes a double-sided tape (with only ONE side ;P ).

[@twoicetwice]

problem with the twist though is that provides a spot where it could actually malfunction, while as is it cant pass over itself

[@stetai352]

@@twoicetwice You could have the twist happen in a controlled designated area (e. g. between two pairs of rollers) so you don't run the risk of the tape passing over itself. I really like the Möbius approach and I'd love to see it put into practice! (Edit: spelling)

[@twoicetwice]

@@stetai352 this is true, but then we need the right tension there to ensure the flip doesn't fold, and that it's doesn't clog, and we're back to making tension rollers back and forth across the entire length of the cassette. I'm sure you could work it out, but overall, it's overcomplicating a niche use of a tape, when you could also double the track length by running it at half speed more easily

[@patdbus]

@@twoicetwice i quess youd only need to add one more roller, that can keep tention before the rubber roller so the loop/twist can end there, though it might reduce the amount of tape youre able to store in the cassete and youd have a blank spot where the tape is conected to eachother, since i dont think you can record/play from the adhesive strip, unless im wrong.

[@alan-freeman]

Back in the early '80s we had a 1/4 inch reel-to-reel system where the tape was run around a fixed reel with feed out in the centre via a roller, spiralled around the reel and entered the outer edge. Because the outer diameter is larger than the inner, tension was created automatically and we had about 10 minutes at 7 1/2 ips. This was used for a display with tones on one track and mono audio on the other track. A control box "listened" for the beeps and stopped the tape until someone pressed the start button. It counted beeps changing the display. Crude, but it worked.

[@lallamallamarada]

Amazing work! Its nice to watch stuff like this. Sharing the files its amazing, you are doing a great job!

[@muddle3017]

This would be best used for rain ambience or similar lol

[@mykolaryshkov2106]

Nice to see some new content on KZbin related to tape cassettes ❤

[@justawatchin2]

I recently saw a player piano that used a looping roll, so when the roll finished it would start again. It used the same mechanism as this and the Space Echo. Wild to see the ~12 inch wide piano roll folding over and over on itself and never snagging or even tearing.

[@JamesSmith-xs7sr]

This is great! When I first got into recording, (early 90's, before I got my first proper 4 track, a Teac 3340's) I figured how to make a 2 track recorder via cassette. I would tape 1/2 of the record head, play my drum track. After recording said part, I removed the tape & placed it on the other side of the head. Play back, add guitar to the previous drum track. Sounded pretty good. Later I scored a near mint Echoplex. I LUV analog gear!

[@eggycat]

You smashed it with this video and the design.

[@upstream284]

It reminds me of the ink ribbon cartridge of a dot matrix impact printer. A pre-inked long continuous ribbon is loaded in the cartridge in the same organic fashion and pulled out multiple times to action during the life of the cartridge.

[@jeffreyhall5307]

Came here for that comment.

[@JamesPearson]

This is brilliant, well done. I have been considering for many years to buy a 3D printer and I was getting close. I think you've just tipped the decision over the edge! I thought my 30 second tape loop from an answering machine was good, but this is next level! Thank you for sharing. New subscriber... :) EDIT: After hitting subscribe I checked your other videos hoping for more and quickly realised you've only just started your channel. Well it has a lot of potential and I look forward to more. Wishing you success! 😃

[@tmanF4]

Super cool video. Loving how you present this

[@shortymcsteve]

This is awesome! Thanks for sharing the files. I always thought about this idea whenever I got to use a Roland Space Echo (love watching that thing), but I just assumed it wouldn’t work for some reason. Great first video!

[@Spacehelm]

This video is VERY good. You will defiantly go far! Keep up the good work o7.

[@CropCircleSystems]

keep up the good work my man. great engineering. great video. loving the name. can really build a brand here. so glad to see newcomers taking it seriously.

[@the_eminent_Joshua_E_Hrouda]

I once bought a 3 minute endless loop cassette from Tandy Electronics (Radio Shack in the USA) here in Australia. It worked well. I don't think it had screws. I wondered what it was like inside.

[@zednos]

This is crazy. A long time ago in radio stations we had these giant machines and gigantic tape cassettes to do this kind of looping. If we could have had this kind of long format tape looping in these cheap cassettes we would have saved so much money!

[@Flea-Flicker]

What happens when you break the rules of tape loops? Do you go to tape loop court, then tape loop prison?

[@iturnknobs]

straight to the brig

[@thekingoffailure9967]

I don’t know. I’ve never been caught

[@beirtipol]

You go to tape loop court, then prison, then court, then prison, then c.........

[@Flea-Flicker]

@@beirtipol You da man! You nailed it!

[@wholock0001]

this is such a legit video, hope to see a tape delay made here soon! subbed!

[@kevtris]

when I was 10 I made something similar to this in the 80's. instead of a rubber band though, I used a garden hose washer, and since 3D printing wasn't a thing, I used some spring steel from a wind up toy. it worked... mostly, but if I put too much tape in it'd get caught and all crinkled up. I used another piece of spring and bent it around to keep the tape off the take up reel.

[@ipaqmaster]

Very cool idea. My mind was blown seeing g that free flowing version inside the cassette space

[@StolenBlock]

That's so cool! I love the design it's so beautiful. Looks like a hydro dipped marbled paper!

[@thedyingtitan1247]

I’d recommend putting a 3D printed cylinder around the other spindle to isolate any chance of it contacting the tape. I’d also suggest to make the idler tensioner, using a pen spring or something so that the tape is squished between the driver and tensioner. Also you could potentially 3D print TPU driving bands for the drive and tension wheels eliminating the need for fiddling with things. Though I understand TPU is significantly harder to print than PETG.

[@Sekir80]

I don't think I ever heard of tape loops, but oh boy, this was a good crash course! Thanks, great work!

[@guerrilladigital]

This is amazing. I’ve gotta try making one of these this winter.

[@FlameStrykeShadowDark]

It prolly would have been easier to find and dissect an 8-track cassette to copy.....

[@AlaskanInsights]

8 tracks are continuous, maybe able to do that design in a cassette

[@cameronlandorg]

You should check out the origins of a bin loop. These were developed by Steve Alcorn prior to computers. The tech was developed for show control for EPCOT. Basically the tape was looped and held in a bin.

[@organfairy]

The take up shaft seems to be rolling intermittently at 7:55 - but still it's an interesting concept. Not every echo unit used "free flowing" tape: I have an old Dynacord that uses a 58cm loop that is streched out all the way. There was also the Melos Echochamber that used a special cassette with a loop arranged like in an 8-track cassette.

[@iturnknobs]

with my TC-D5M it gets temperamental with certain tape loops. Some won’t even run and with this one the shaft doesn’t spin consistently but capstan rotates at a consistent speed. The extra slack I’m assuming prevents it from getting too much resistance and making the machine think it’s at the end of the tape. I hadn’t heard of the Dynacord but I’m definitely going to educate myself on it. Kinda reminds me of the old Echoplex machines but looks like a more finished product

[@organfairy]

@@iturnknobs It's called Dynacord Echocord Mini and it has a big slider on the front that moves the record head physically while the play head stays still. This is what gives it the variable echo times.

[@robocelot]

The latter type of tape echo you're talking about sounds like a HiPac (aka Apollon) cartridge, very similar to the older Playtape. A lot of them are the same design rebranded -- Melos, Univox EC-80A. Probably still the cheapest real tape echo you can buy short of DIY.

[@organfairy]

@@robocelot It is. Techmoan made a video about HiPac and I recognised it.

[@debrainwasher]

Cassettes with long tape loops were quite common during the past millenium for use in TAM (Telephone Answering Machine) - a contraption, that preceded the good old com box. Since announcements need a typical length of a half to one minute, these lengths were sold in every office equipment shop.

[@DavidLeeKersey]

A good way to match the cut ends of the rubber band is to start glueing a bit back from the beginning and when you get all the way around lay the band over the starting end then cut through both layers and you'll have a perfect match. Also means any non pararalensss in the cut is matched on both ends.

[@meistudiony]

This is really cool, looking forward to trying this out!

[@Deses]

This is some ingenious stuff. Very cool!

[@autistictomatoes]

This is amazing. Can use this design to create 'drum memory' for an early computer. Neato!

[@idontwantahandlethough]

This is super cool man!

[@bonistik]

This is pure genius.

[@delvindoodles2182]

This was extremely interesting bro! Thanks for sharing, i have never seen anything like it.

[@gags730]

I had a 30-second loop cassette tape in the late 80s. I remember it well as I used it for Halloween to play a 'scary' ghost loop at my front door and for other things. Definitely was not a 10-second loop, it was in fact 30 seconds. Who made it I can not remember but it was not clear and I couldn't see inside of it. I even remember buying it at an outdoor flea market and it was brand new and sealed. My brother and I were just discussing this around Halloween as we laughed how easy it is to do things with Bluetooth speakers these days.

[@davebauerart]

Amazing! Ever since I saw a space echo I’ve wanted to build a tape loop. I just want to look at it.

[@ThisPossumKnits]

Wild! 🤘 Thanks for sharing!

[@HI-FI_]

This is cool, you could also use an endless loop outgoing message cassette, the ones used in answering machines.

[@sandernote089]

This video has the energy of someone who has 100+ thousand subscribers!!!!

[@autonoob]

Apparently tape loops are a thing. I have zero use for this but man am I fascinated 😀. Liked and subscribed 👍

[@SoapySupreme]

Apparently, tape loops are a thing. I have no practical use for this, but I’m thoroughly fascinated. I’ve liked and subscribed.

[@d3str0i3r]

use this to make a looping mixtape of songs that feel like they never end

[@fr33dumb0]

This is cool bro. Nice work!

[@holemajora598]

Solid video! I’m subscribed and I’m looking for more. awesome job

[@nyckid]

Longer loops were used for on hold music systems... also look at radio carts that had a similar setup, except they unspooled from the inside of the roll...

[@daemn42]

For something that have no need of, this is a very interesting and engaging video. Good job.

[@RSCuber]

My first thought would be (as I'm an old school telephone nerd), converting cassette tapes to loops with these parts to have prerecorded messages run in a loop that you can connect to. I run a switch in a private telephone network so, I could make my number not in service recording or calibration test tones all analog!

[@madmansprinkles]

Some pallet strapper machines also uses something similar to this system (: except those would pull a strap from an outside spool, they have a buffer container similar to your cassette, and only pull tension when the bunch of strap in the container reaches high enough to signal a sensor As long as no dust gets in they're very unlikely to jam and tend to hold up well

[@zombiexpanda]

Pro tip for the making rubberband reel process: Overlap the rubber band on the reel, then cut through both layers with a singular cut. Now your ends perfectly match 100% of the time. I know this is the least maker intensive part of the process but its easier to do this than try to match two separately made cuts.

[@BlackbodyEconomics]

Awesome! I need to build one now - or like fifty. My brother's gonna love this too :)

[@Yodanzzy]

This is so sick! Great video

[@andrewbenge2040]

This could be used for so many things, especially storing really simple repetitive task programs for a simple computer

[@andrewbenge2040]

I don't know how to program it, I don't know code, but the hardware should be pretty straightforward. Connect a write head to the computer you have the code in, record it to the tape. Get a simple cheap reader, and instead of connecting it to a speaker, connect it to your circuit or computer. A simple example would be a basic on/off code, wire the head to an LED, and show an elementary science class how it turns it on and off. Different tapes could even have Morse code messages. Id love to see if someone smarter than me has done this, or does this.

[@NikosMouratidis]

You need an extra 3D printed part, a channel that "flips" the tape to create a moebius strip. This way you utilize both sides of the tape and effectively double the duration.

[@raphaeltoast]

As a kid I experimented with tapes by pulling out some of the tape from the bottom middle gap, turning the tape over and pressing play, letting the tape wind back in slowly. The section I unwound would play back entirely in reverse. Blew my mind

[@Yupppi]

Indeed my first question was where do you need such a long delay loop. Cool project, was studying 3D printing this fall and it's nice to see printing applied to simple problems and prototyping where it shines.

[@EeveeEuphoria]

aw darn, looks like i was too late to buy your etsy listing. would definitely be interested if you plan on putting it back up any time soon!

[@ANoBaka]

Seems like a cool escape room puzzle part when put together. You find it and then it loops some information you need for something when put into the player

[@liquidsakura]

make more please!

[@khlr972]

See if you can remove the erase head from your tape deck delay pedal. If you can remove the head, you could make it more than a slapback, and the tape loop length would become your max delay length. Could turn it into almost a tape looper pedal

[@chris2746]

Many of the early player pianos used the same technique to allow it to string many songs together. I think there were some that could go close to an hour before repeating and several hundred feet of scroll

[@RobbCochran-l2u]

I used to do that all the time in the late 80's-90's - I would make a 'One or Two Song Tape that would play One or two songs then start over... me and my buddy made them as Sound Effect Loops

[@HoldYourSeahorses]

As a time traveler from the 1980’s I find the video very useful.

[@ghostfox3560]

I like the idea of that being useful for an answering machine. Not sure about what use you would have for that outside of adding a digital echo to a song track with that being a read and rewrite setup though.

[@Roobotics]

Instead of rubber bands and superglue for the wheel friction, maybe you can use something like 85A TPU, or even common 95A, it will still grab better than the stock plastic.