What Happens When You Overload Model Train Controllers?

[@the4tierbridge]

“But obviously, if you’r putting a screwdriver across the tracks of your model railway, you deserve to have bad things happen to you, okay” -Sam 2020

[@SamsTrains]

haha - it's true!! ;D

[@sunj375]

i found it useful..as i've accidentally done it

[@datguymiller]

You're*

[@Ihatelockups]

When you do that it short Circuit on oo scale

[@vik8218]

Sam tries to make a bomb using model railway controllers for 23 minutes straight.

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! xD

[@theblocksmith645]

Lol 😂

[@Mr_Smidge]

Lol

[@nathanthesaddletankengine]

Looks like we have a new bomb for a war now

[@gamingwithlukeJToH]

the military would be proud. and then they would ban model railway controllers for being literal live bombs you can just order online for a few pounds.

[@tarkas566]

Very interesting stuff, Sam. My very old (early 60s) Tri-ang controller -- which was about the size of your Gaugemaster unit -- had short-circuit protection in the form of a pop-up breaker that I remember popping a few times. It was simple to reset: just turn off the current and push the breaker back in, and you should be ready to go. Can't rate it as you have because I didn't have any of the equipment that you use, but I remember the breaker being pretty quick to cut in, and certainly nothing ever got damaged before it did. An interesting design feature was that it had 4 sets of connections, 2 of which were controlled by the dial (though there was only one, so what happened if you hooked them both up, I have no idea) and 2 which were direct -- which really meant that you needed some other sort of controller, or at least a switch, to control the current through them. It did mean that I could run both my trains and a Minic car set at the same time by using the Minic controllers. Luckily, the level crossing was designed so that It didn't short out either circuit or the controller as a whole.

[@trainguy611]

Two words: “Ka” and “Boom”

[@LHoriginal]

Lol

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! xD

[@Frserthegreenengine]

I read that in Demoman's voice

[@riffraff7949]

Ya got that right.

[@MarcusWhitelam]

I can just imagine shrek shouting *KA BOOM!!* lol

[@justinbuilt6457]

0:24 When you ask your parents to buy you the Santa's Express, and you except certain liveries, but you get it with different liveries that you despise

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! xD

[@SniartekilI]

I had a short circuit once. I tried to put one of my grandparents wagons on my railway, but they are completely metal because on my grandparents’ track the power goes through a middle rail but I use dcc. Luckily my controller had a protector!

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh yes I've had wagons like that before - yes protection will have been very important in that case! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@importednascar]

0:17 0:19 and 0:22 Sam used EXPLOSION! *IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!* *Controllers 1-3 FAINTED!*

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! xD

[@skuula]

The Bachmann _does_ have a short circuit protection, namely its 800 mA current limitation. It will not protect a motor armature very well, but there will be no fire either. The alternative to just limiting, which cuts out the power completely is called a foldback protection. If there is a current limiter and a temperature foldback, that is getting quite good. These controllers all seemed to protect themselves well (the old one just by being overbuilt), but not all would protect a stalled motor. We all love the "click" noise of the Gaugemaster in your videos, when you change the direction :)

[@davidchilds1375]

Good answer. It's all down to Ohm's Law. A stalled motor will draw current according to its stalled resistance.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes that's true - but I think 800mA is quite a lot, especially when it's supplied continuously under short circuit condition - the best controllers detect this, and cut the power. And correct - the stalled resistance of motors is much lower than under normal operation due to the lack of EMF produced by the motor in motion - hence the massive currents! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@davidchilds1375]

@@SamsTrains Sorry to keep on, but I would be interested to see the characteristic curve of the output under load. It may be that Bachmann have a cunning circuit that keeps voltage constant to a point then goes 'over a cliff'. By the way, I have just been given one of those Meccano PSU's and it seems to be a tapped transformer (ie a voltage control). I haven't opened it up to have a look yet. OK for testing though. I design transformers for a living.

[@adamstroudley]

0:17 cringe 0:19 more cringe 0:22 ultimate cringe Edit: im dying in those parts 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! xD

[@paulwilson3083]

As always Sam a well put together and informative video, I'm a big fan of the Gaugemaster controller, I can control 240 feet of track on my garden railway without bus wires and they are very reliable and sturdy. Take care and thank you for posting Sam.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Paul - yes I love those too - they are excellent!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@JasperHuskyFox]

When you have the chart on screen, the two tracks with trains on them in the background is a nice, subtle, but very nice touch! I've been binge watching your videos alot, unfortunately I can't buy model trains due to the cost, but seeing someone enjoying their hobby, and testing lots of stuff like controllers, locos, tracks, and more in a scientific manner is very awesome to see! Can't wait to see more science testing-based videos! Greetings from Canada!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks so much - glad you like that!! Appreciate you sticking around - really glad you like the videos! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@cessnaace]

When I was a kid we had a Model Rectifier Corporation Dual Loco Model 700 Controller. It never burned out or ruined a loco. Sometimes an Overload Indicator came on, but hitting reset it would be good to go. Made in USA. Input: 110 -120 volts; 60 cycles AC OUTOUT:4 Amps. Master Power Switch. Dual throttles. Each throttle power could be set to either Pulse or full; 0 - 12 volts DC; direction switch; Dual Overload Indicators; Circuit breaker Protected.

[@JBB27907]

If dapol made a ho controller i bet it will explode

[@SamsTrains]

haha, no comment! xD Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@alanhaynes4576]

Sam, I used to own an original Tri-ang P6A controller from the 60's. They used a thermal cutout for overload protection. It worked by using a bi metal strip that was part of the circuit inside the controller. Under normal running current flowed and all was well. However when a short or overload occurred the bi metal strip heated up and bent which broke the circuit thus causing the power to the track to cut off. It had a red button just above the speed and direction knob which was used to reset once the short was removed. They were a very reliable controller using a rectifier instead of any electronics. Of course they were well suited to the 3 pole motors of the day. At the time it was deemed to be one of the best available with a beautiful all metal case in a sort of metallic blue finish. It had an A/C output to connect points controllers and an auxiliary 12volt dc for a slave controller to be connected. I remember using it at a friends place where we had a long train with as much rollingstock as we had with a triple header on the front. My original Stephenson's Rocket then an 0-4-0 diesel shunter (Not the Dock Shunter and Green in colour) followed by a steam loco which was I think a Princess class (it belonged to my friend). This all drew too much current and the red button used to pop out so we as 12/13 year old's kept it running by pressing in the red button. Very silly but in those days we thought it was fun. I am really surprised that the modern Hornby and Gaugemaster controllers were so bad. There is no way they should allow that much current onto the track. Modern transistor controllers since about the 1980's all as far as I knew had built in electronic short circuit protection so I wonder what has changed. Have you done a DCC test to see how they fair? They should be well within limits to avoid damage to the DCC chips in the locos I would think.

[@SamsTrains]

Hey Alan, thanks a lot for sharing - yes I have heard about those before - sounds like a pretty great feature to me!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@alanhaynes4576]

@@SamsTrains OOoops! I named the wrong controller. I had the P5A. The P6A was specifically designed for anyone that had catenary and allowed for a common return so you could run for example any of the regular track powered locos and another wire was connected to the catenary. I never saw one in person and am not fully sure if they were much different at the back where the connectors were but the unit itself looked identical from the front except for the P6A instead of P5A.

[@mindbuilder8768]

"what Happens when you break your controller?" It breaks.

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! ;D

[@priscillawest6475]

Lol

[@WickedFizz999]

Thanks for taking the sacrifice with these experiments so everyone else doesn't have to find out the hard way when there stuff blows up :)

[@SamsTrains]

haha no problem - this one was fun! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@bobmarkson5343]

Very interesting video. I'm running my Ausicion Vline L series (L1160) loco from my DC power supply on my hornby dcc train set loop. The hornby dcc controller is great because of its short circuit protection which I've tripped a few times when running the dcc locos that came with it. But, when I'm running my Ausicion loco in pure dc, with a live read out of the changing amps is priceless. It's currently sitting at 0.7 volts with 0.08 - 0.10 amps depending on where the loco is in the loop, the model I'm currently running has lights etc so it's drawing a bit more. Finding the perfect voltage/sweet spot has been pure scale model locomotive bliss.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Bob - and thanks for sharing, that's interesting! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Superbuchi]

Can't wait to try that new screwdriver tip with my new hornby tracks, thank you for the fun activity guide, Sam!

[@SamsTrains]

OH god - be careful, lol! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Superbuchi]

Only joking of course, but thank you for the great video :)

[@assertivemayonaise]

You should test this through some track, as this would give a different resistance and a more realistic circumstance

[@SamsTrains]

It shouldn't make much difference - even with track in between, a short would cause a lot of current to flow - the resistance would still be incredibly low! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@assertivemayonaise]

@@SamsTrains fair enough, just a thought anyway

[@MrNicktheBeat]

I'm currently building a twin track controller and the first components I ordered were those instantaneous 'pop up' overload cut outs similar to those used in the old Triang controllers. The noise when (if) they pop alerts you far better than an LED changing colour ( or not!).

[@matthewforth8561]

Non-isolated pointwork across a double track mainline or anything with multiple power feeds can cause it depending on how the pointwork is laid, or damaged point frogs can also do it. Just thought I'd mention as it's something that's far from immediately obvious. My poor HM 2000 had to deal with a fair amount of current multiple times before I finally tracked it down to the damaged point, luckily it's a solid unit and is still going strong now several years later. Edit: Also, judging by how long the power light on the HM 2000 remained illuminated before shutting off, I think mine reacts a bit faster than yours. Love the channel Sam, keep up the great content

[@SamsTrains]

Yes you're absolutely right Matthew - connecting two controllers together in that way can cause excess current flow/controller damage - very good point! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@shades360]

My 1930’s trix twin railway controllers have short circuit protection which seems to work well. Frequently tested with derailed trains. I use a 1950’s transformer which is rated at 3 amps , however if you shorted that it would probably dim the lights in a major city

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for sharing - blimey, they even did things properly in the 30s!! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@leilacentral1883]

There is something about blowing things up or making them smoke that gives great satisfaction unless it was not intentional. The basic controllers surprised me because I would have expected them to not have any protection. But the more expensive units I would expect it and to perform much better. I'm installing a dedicated short circuit protection unit on my multideck layout and it has adjustable settings including its trigger. Ill be setting it at a low 1.5amps. Very interesting video Sam and keep well. Clint

[@SamsTrains]

This is very true - I've always loved blowing things up with electricity, lol! Me too - I was surprised the expensive controllers weren't more sensitive to short circuits - they certainly passed high current for much longer than expected! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@wolfzillaproductions4563]

Controllers: Kaboom? Sam: *Yes controllers, kaboom*

[@rydermike33]

Very interesting Sam. I suppose because they are used with 'starter' sets, that the cheap controllers came out really well in your tests. Excellent video as always.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much Mike - absolutely, they seem super safe! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@pigeonliveryworks]

Welcome to sams ways of destroying train controlers 1.cross contamination with a hornby with a bachman controler 2.put your screw driver on tracks while it has a current (Your controler is now screwed) 3. Abandonment of your model railway while running a train and getting some model railwaysmans heated steam water 5. Wash your controler with water and soap 6.use a car battery to charge your controler Thanks for reading! Remember ,:take your model railwaysmans broth *OR ELSE* *DONT TRY THIS AT HOME*

[@SamsTrains]

haha those are all very accurate actually, lol! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@highbrookendmodelrailway]

Another smashing video Sam, had flashbacks to the staring in the Dapol Water Tower (another explosive topic, eh?) video at 0:24! I have the Hornby 900 Power Control from years ago, not sure what that is rated for - although I doubt it will have short circuit protection! I normally go round with the back of a fridge magnet every few weeks just to make sure no metal is near by - with the power off. My locomotives only draw around 100-200 milliamps, or 350-550 in double headers. I also have a "boost" function on the controller - I turn this on when doing heavy duty running. Thanks, George.

[@SamsTrains]

haha thanks mate - ooh yeah, I would have liked to have seen one of those blow up! Yes that's right - about 200mA is reasonable for most locos! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@AntonyLvids]

If I remember right, the R900 was rated at a massive 2.25amps as it could handle accessories and 2? slave controllers (R902)

[@highbrookendmodelrailway]

Not sure, but I know that it could have another controller plug into the side, so it could power two tracks? The ports on the side where you would plug in another controller measure 12v DC. What is a "slave controller" I have seen them on the likes of eBay and can't find any info on them. Anyway, the bloke who sold the controller to me said it was a beefy controller and was well worth buying another to make it a twin track controller. It does have a 15v AC output.

[@carolinecleaveley]

Have 3 bachmann controllers. The dcc one stops after about 3 hours running outside on o gauge. the other 2 are on oo and tt and only the tt one has malfunctioned with 2 triang a1a motors under a loco but now only goes one way. Will replace all now seeing your findings. Thanks Sam.

[@send2gl]

Fascinating experiment, makes you wonder then about displays in the old days. I recall Hamley's used to have a model train circuit running continuously round a large suspended circuit on one of the shop floors. I'm guessing they must have had a few derailments which went unnoticed and back then not sure of any short circuit protection.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Geoff - I know - I wonder if they had any issues?!? Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@timbervalleyproductions]

Awesome video, really informative, thank you. Would you please consider doing something similar again with the Gaugemaster Combi and other controllers such as the old HandM and the HM6000 etc?

[@noelleaver3397]

That was a useful and interesting test. A common type of protection I'm not sure any of the tested controllers had is a resettable fuse. I think all the Gaugemaster hand-held controllers use these, and I've seen several other hand-helds with them. They will pass a the rated current indefinitely, above that they cut out but can take a long time, to cut out quickly they need about twice the rated current. The problem I found was that the max current was limited by the power supply and the controller setting about 1.5 amps (2.5 A at full throttle), but the fuse was 1.1 amps cut-off, so it would supply 1.5 A for 20-30 seconds. I've seen this damage locos 3 times, all the same loco design. Certain Dapol N locos used a tiny spring to transmit power from the tender to the loco (they have since changed the design to use a wire). If the loco derailed on a crossing you could get a tender wheel touching the other rail and shorting via the spring and the loco wheel. Because the spring is so thin 1.5 A made it red hot, your warning something was wrong was smoke coming from the loco as the spring melted and burnt plastic (the motor was not involved and was fine). They can be made a lot safer by replacing the 1.1A fuse by a lower rated one, I use 0.5 A for N Gauge (0.4 sometimes tripped on double headers). BTW, a common reason these controllers fail is that the fuse goes open circuit and you need to replace it, so a stock of spares is good (it is a soldered in component in the form of a small disk, available from RS and similar). Of of 6 broken controllers at the club 5 were fixed by replacing the fuse. Noel

[@SamsTrains]

Hi Noel - I do like the idea of a resettable fuse - provided people don't abuse them, I can't see why manufacturers don't fit them more often! That spring design sounds pretty silly too - demonstrates a lack of proper testing once again! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Hi Sam. When I was 'nobbut a lad' I had a Triang trainset; the controller was a large, heavy, grey box with a slanting front with the red control knob. Also, there was a small red button that you needed to press to rest the controller if there was a short circuit (have controllers gone backwards - if you'll pardon the pun?). I think you rather short-changed the Mehano controller; on its performance, I would have awarded a gold certificate!

[@Poliss95]

The problem with that button is that it could be held down while there was a short circuit.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

@@Poliss95 Thank God for a supervising parent!

[@Poliss95]

@@PaulSmith-pl7fo My dad was out with his racing pigeons most of the time and my mother didn't have a clue about anything electrical.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

@@Poliss95 Ah well, there's a lost opportunity!

[@SamsTrains]

Yes that's right - the red button could easily be bodged so as not to work! And yes - I too love the Mehano controllers! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@crewleaderprods]

I had a metal track joiner fall across the rails one time and couldn't figure out where the short was until I smelled plastic burning and found a glowing red joiner melting the plastic ties. This was when I still used a cheapo power pack that apparently didn't have short protection.

[@SamsTrains]

Blimey! That sounds dramatic - again, short circuit protection would have saved that dangerous situation! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@extrapolator2000]

The Gaugemaster and large Hornby controllers will only be equipped with internal thermally controlled protection. Basically to self-protect, but not to give any form of protection to anything outside the controller. The small Hornby controller appears to be equipped with a sense and trip function so it will protect not just itself, but also external devices. Essential for childrens train sets, where it is usually found to avoid damage to played with locos. I expect it has some type of short time retry pulse to check if the short is removed. Probably too fast for your meter to register. The trouble with fitting this to the Gaugemaster controller is simply that you run the risk of cutting out too early if someone simply has a power hungry loco and a large load. When starting from stationary, DC motors can sometimes pull quite a lot of current transiently. I guess Gaugemaster don't want the reputation of controllers that cut out too freely.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes that seems to be true, hence the delay in cut-out I suppose? Agreed - the Hornby train set controllers are spot on (if a bit frustrating) - can't see locos being damaged with that one! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@sacredband9812]

Amazing video. Useful information. Good job it is not using mains. At 500 milliamps the heart goes in to fibrilation and you blow up. May i suggest that when using all metal screwdrivers that some rubber tubing is slid over the handle and most of the shaft for insulation. Only the tip should be showing. You can get shrouded screwdrivers. Your croc clips are also shrouded preventng short circuits. When in doubt insulate with non-electrical conducting material.

[@SamsTrains]

Thank you!! Yes that's true - but much higher voltage would be required to overcome the resistance of the human body! Yes that's true - but I don't use my screwdrivers around high voltage anyway! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@lukeslocomotives]

Another way to kill controllers: Run a Bachmann loco on a Hornby controller. A hornby one broke and threw 5532 off the track

[@lukeslocomotives]

The controller at 0:22 is the one I had

[@SamsTrains]

haha really?! Which controller was that?! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@jamtart606]

@Dani Rijnsburger The HM2000 or the Gaugemaster Twin Track are probably your best bet. But just be careful not to short circuit them!

[@TomMaddox888]

Absolute rubbish.

[@pigeonliveryworks]

And that is train cross contamination

[@ZLDSmogless]

Old Meccano type 3 controller when it short circuits: Red light turns on and electric buzzing sound. Until you turn it all the way down and back up You short circuit on 3-rail almost every derailment

[@vinny142]

1:18 "The full power of the controller" Only if it is already turned up to full power, which is a strange thing to do given that your loco will be whizzing around the track at 88mph. The question now is what did you test? A short is a direct connection between the poles, which means it happens outside your motor or your motor is so completely broken that it's not salvagable anyway. if there is a short and your loco stops, your first reaction is to turn of the power, not to turn it up forther as smoke begins to develop from unusual places. I'm far more interested in what protection the loco's have against things that can cause them to develop a short. It's also interesting to look at wether the wiring inside a loco can handle the max current put out by the worst-protected controller; does your loco actually take damage from a poorly-protected controller? It's probably even more interesting to see if there is a DIY gizmo that you can put in series with your controller to protect against overvoltage and over-current, like a circuit breaker in your house. Does the 6 amps even make it through the circuit to the wheels, is the contact of the loco's wheels on the rail enough to allow 6 amps to pass through? It would not be the first application where the test-case of a direct short is something that is allmost impossible to achieve in real life.

[@retrocd7991]

My hornby controller only 2 years old has an interesting defect where if you don't push down the black circle that controlls the amount of power going to the track. It gives the loco above full power. I've had to use a peice of wood effectively as a handbrake

[@SamsTrains]

haha that's pretty funny - I think I'd quite enjoy that!! ;D The potentiometer must be faulty, which is quite interesting! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@firestarspelt]

some of the higher power dcc boosters in the us are rated for 8 amps but they do take a fraction of a second to cut the power if it goes over that

[@firestarspelt]

and if sam were to set one up on one side of his layout and have a short on the other side if he dont have feeder wires the resistance of the track would prevent it being able to even get to the 8 amp threshold

[@SamsTrains]

Yes the DCC controllers have much better protection, due to the much higher current they can supply! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@paulhorn2665]

Well its a shame that even modern controllers have no short circuit protetction! I remember well my "Märklin Super" controller from 1949, which I had as a child. Weighed a ton with humming transformator. But it worked when a short circuit occured, while some train derailed or a loco began to smoke without hesitation. It was humming humming humming, then BANG and the control light went out not to come on again a few minutes later. It seems it was a good controller and transformator :-)

[@SamsTrains]

I agree Paul - I was surprised by this!! Thanks for sharing - that sounds crazy!! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Aaron.56_]

hi sam, recently purchased Hornby's newer tooling of class 43 HST power cars. I bought the GWR green set and they are the one of best runners I have on my layout! Some of them do have quite a hefty price but with the correct matching coaches, they look amazing. I can only recommend you try them out although if you don't because of the price tag, I understand fully XD

[@SamsTrains]

Great to hear they're great runners mate, thanks a lot for the suggestion! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@TATICMOOR]

Yeah, that is a lot of amps going thru ones loco rolling stock and lit coaches etc. If you have a power socket strip (gang) of 4 to 6 (some will have more 8+ which I wouldn't use anyway) outlets plugged in to power your layout. It is advisable to buy a power gang with Anti-Surge Protection built into it for extra safety. Most layouts would have up to 2x Up and 2x Down lines with a possible branch line. Then you'll could also have a further plug powering your accessories, lights, moving vehicle's, windmills etc. A 6x socket Anti-Surge power gang from one wall power socket should be enough for any home layout. If you consult an electrician you could change the wall socket over, to a fused socket with red LED and use a Quick Blow fuse for safety. Another option is to have the power connected to or built in with a Power Trip Switch Circuit and a button power Rest. Though this would be overkill, unless you have a very large layout to run. Please take heed with Square Plug-In Adapters. These square adapters are dangerous to use and best to throw out and replace with a Socket Strip Gang as mentioned above.. I have be horrified to see a single wall socket with Square Adapter with 3x outlets plugged in and then a further adapter plugged into that. The thing is with this type of power practise to charge or power any amount of equipment generates a lot of heat. This is because the more items plugged in this way draws and requires more amps from the wall socket. This will eventually melt wires or plastics within the square plug unit to fail and then it can lead to a major fire starting. They can also become what is called Top Heavy. This means with all the items plugged into it, they add extra weight that over time weighs the square adapter unit down and away from the wall. Slowly over time pulling the three (two in other countries) pins for Live, Neutral and Earth away from connecting to the wall socket. Given a chance this can lead to sparking if its too loose between the pins and its counterpart within the wall socket. The smallest of sparks can and will catch fire on anything that is flammable near to it or the square adapter plug will just burst into flames anyway. I highly recommend binning these Square Adapters to the trash can if you see or ever use them, then replace with a proper protected gang strip. I am sure there is KZbin videos of this happening and showing the dangerous results.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for the comment John! But don't forget 5A on the 12v side will only be around 250mA on the mains side - that's obviously a tiny amount! You mean have the trip protection on the layout-side of the controller? Many thanks for all the info - appreciate it! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@TATICMOOR]

@@SamsTrains Know problem, but do ditch any square adapters if you have any and buy a gang strip.

[@sambrown6426]

sam, once I was running an outdoor layout, and the controller caught fire! garden hose to the rescue!

[@SamsTrains]

Oh blimey - that's not good!!! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Poliss95]

You should never use water on an electrical fire.

[@sambrown6426]

@@Poliss95 we unplugged it first.

[@highbrookendmodelrailway]

@@sambrown6426 The capacitors inside could still be charged. Best to throw sand or another smothering dry material on electrical fires. Or just leave it to burn out.

[@sambrown6426]

@@highbrookendmodelrailway the closest dry smothering material was in the neighbor's sandbox across the street while my hose was within 10 feet, and I didn't want to leave it burning because it was on a wooden deck, and that could've set my HOUSE on fire VERY fast if I hadn't done something.

[@loganduckthomas1best697]

I've got a KATO controller. For being a small model company the only time I've short circuited it was when I was switching the direction of the train one too many times.

[@SamsTrains]

Ooh interesting - what happened when you did that?? Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@loganduckthomas1best697]

@@SamsTrains All that happen is it semi cut out. The Loco just sat there and buzzed for a bit. I looked inside the loco and it was fine, and the controller just needed to be left off over night then it was alright.

[@railwaychannel66745]

may i ask? how can you fix your train set after you put a screwdriver across the tracks sam

[@JonatanGronoset]

Oi Sam, noce video on model safety. I did my own experiments a few weeks ago and my Märklin MS2 unit doesn't cut power until 7 seconds into the short circuit, quite nasty business I must say and a death sentence for decoders! In comparison the Roco Multimaus cuts out immediately. I'd like to see you do a review on the Märklin MS2 controller, they're quite pricey but support up to 16 functions, their own MM and MFX protocols as well as DCC. A very nice and intuitive controller, realy.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much Jonatan - that sounds pretty interesting, 7 seconds does seem a long while! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@merlinandmurdoch7837]

12:03 “absolutely shocking” hehe

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! ;D

[@tomwatts703]

After watching the intro and explanation of short circuits I can't help but feel I now know the reason 14-year-old me's controllers kept 'breaking'....

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know right - it all makes sense! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@tico360]

if you can, can you tell me how to tell if a train has short circuit on the Bachmann controller and what to do when i have a short circut?

[@SamsTrains]

My Bachmann controller doesn't do anything when it shorts, but usually you'll see the loco stop! Just clear the track/short, and things should go back to normal! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@RobA500]

My Gaugemaster is near instantaneous, it is a newer model though. As you turn the power up the led changes colour the higher you go. It starts red and fades to yellow at full power, if a short circuit is detected it instantly goes red and cuts power to that circuit. The second circuit remains on unless that is shorted as well of course.

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh interesting - I wonder if they've changed that since mine was made then? Worth trying a newer one maybe! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@absflint3192]

Thank you I've done that actually before

[@SamsTrains]

haha I'm not surprised! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@absflint3192]

Thank you for responding yeah I've done that before

[@absflint3192]

With my Santa Express Hornby train

[@alanlansdell7533]

Was surprised by the Meccano controller, the older Dublo controllers had overload protection, strange they took that feature out.

[@SamsTrains]

They were probably designed to run shorted all day long to be honest - mine doesn't get warm at all when shorted! Still - not a good thing for locos though! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@TWIGYBNSF]

I had a loco that derailed on my layout once. It happened when I went left the layout. Engine derailed, got snagged on something on the switch preventing the motor from turning. It was left long enough where the body of the engine was in the process or melting.

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh sorry to hear that mate - that's a sad story :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@emergencyvehiclesfromaroun8003]

In my head I’m picturing Sam’s house burning down btw. I love your vids, keep up the good work!

[@emergencyvehiclesfromaroun8003]

Sorry

[@SamsTrains]

haha it could easily happen, lol! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@RichardKuivila1947]

What was the Controller Voltage output at 6.0A ? 12V or. 02 V ? ... unknown ...

[@cunnyfunt5059]

HM2000 made for Hornby by Hammant and Morgan. How about an in-line fuse in each loco at the loco's maximum expected current, delay type fuse for start up, or a re settable type if available?

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot for sharing Paul, that's a great idea! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@ricktownend9144]

good research project, Sam. Are there any separate cut-outs you can wire in to the circuit for extra safety? - or should we all buy a mehano controller and include it in the circuit, and use a more posh one for actually controlling the trains?

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Rick - yes that has been suggested, I'll have to investigate! A resettable one would be best though - if such a thing exists! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@tico360]

For the bachmann controller, can you just unplug the controller and re plug it in and would it work like normal?

[@SamsTrains]

Mine didn't cut out at all so I didn't need to - that's what I have to do with Hornby's though, for sure! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@mordomarty]

LOVED THE BEGINNING SAM! can't seem to fail at making me laugh!!! Great video! Learned a lot!

[@SamsTrains]

haha thank you!! xD

[@mordomarty]

Sam'sTrains you’re welcome!

[@MarMightyGood]

Wonder what happened with the bachmann? Mine trips its short circuit protection sometimes, usually just cutting power to the track ( if I'm lucky if flashes the light on top too). Not sure under exactly what conditions though.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes others have told me that too - mine sustained full current indefinitely without cutting out! I wonder if the safety system failed?!?! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@MultiDell90]

I glad to have Gaugemaster single combi which I had ordered from Hattons

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh fantastc - yes those are great!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@johne5854]

Interesting video. My very old Triang controller had a little button that popped out when there was a short circuit. In view of your test could a simple circuit breaker be made to fit between the controller and track..

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks John - those are so much better - I can't understand why these don't use manual resets... do they expect people to overcome them by devious means?! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@newwesterngrove]

I had a short circuit with a derailed MK3 coach on my Gaugemaster controller, I thought the clicking of the short circuit protection relay was resistors blowing up lol

[@SamsTrains]

haha fortunately I think it's just the relay... or I sincerely hope so, lol! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@thunderturbine8860]

Marklin digital controllers immediately shut off power the second it shorts out. I've been through that with my Marklin digital controller (MS2 or Mobile Station 2) and then I need to find the area of the short and then rerail the train or check the track for improper connections or the train cars wheels to ensure that the bogeys aren't causing the current to short out. My MS2 completely burned up due to the amount of short circuits it had. Had to send both of them 500 miles away to get repaired. My Marklin layout is a digital AC type layout. Marklin 3 style AC track it uses

[@SamsTrains]

Yes that's the best way to be - are those digital though? That's pretty standard for digital! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@thunderturbine8860]

@@SamsTrains if you search up Marklin Mobile Station 2, you'll see that it is digital yes

[@soumo7323]

Is the new hornby controller Short-circuit proof sam? :D

[@SamsTrains]

Yes they are! :D

[@matic713]

17:15 The 0-4-0 army I love your "experiment videos". Conclusion: We should all use Mehano or Hornby starter set controller :)

[@SamsTrains]

haha thank you!! I know right - those are certainly the safest! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@bengrant8455]

I have a hornby castle class and often when it goes over points it short circuits. Any ideas how to stop it

[@SamsTrains]

Hmm I'm not sure mate - my P2 does that sometimes, it's quite odd! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Thomas_Toons]

Interesting about the Bachmann controller, for me they immediately shut off there is a short but when the short is gone it’s immediately back up, maybe it has to do with differences form the UK than in the US.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes others have said that too - if mine has that protection, it didn't work at all! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@GeohToy]

That Mehano one is great, I’ll have to try to find one for my trains

[@SamsTrains]

For what they cost, they are very good! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@tmdrm9817]

my train controller failed it started smoking, smelt like chocolate and the loco that was running got damaged. fun fact that loco was my first and it still runs today and i made a video with it in it: it is called V&TGR and i still have the controller another "fun fact" it is a Lima controller. it was also my first controller and it happen right after a model train fair so i was exited. and then deeply dissapointed

[@SamsTrains]

Sorry to hear that - lots of comments are saying controllers have been smoking etc - it's quite a shock! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Novel_clips]

Electric shock!

[@TheSharkKing45]

From what I know, the Bachmann EZ Command controller (DCC controller), has some form of short circuit protection, as the LED power light will rapidly flash, signifying that something occurred

[@SamsTrains]

Yes others have said that too - and an alarm sound too, if that's right?! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@BeasBotBonanza]

Love this! Just when I thought you had finally made a reasonably safe experiment set up you nearly do yourself in with a resistor xD

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know right - I thought it would handle much higher loads than that! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@BeasBotBonanza]

@@SamsTrains for your next dangerous science video 'how much resistance does a human add to the track circuit' lol

[@brianmicky7596]

Hi Sam, Thank you for the test , it does open your eyes ,as you say never leave the room , you don't know what you could come back to , All the Best Brian 🤗

[@SamsTrains]

No problem Brian, glad you liked it! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Marco-xz9sc]

Notice the highest with protection were dual controllers, wonder if that has any affect?

[@SamsTrains]

Good point Marco - thanks for sharing! :D Cheers, Sam :)

[@John73John]

Sam: *has a small LED circuit almost burn down the house a few years ago* Also Sam: "I'm going to intentionally short circuit a number of controllers and see what happens!" I never shorted my model railroad, but I did snap a couple of 9-volt batteries onto each other when I was about 4 or 5 years old. "If I turn one the other way, both thingies snap together, so that must be what they're for" was my thinking. I put them down and got distracted by something outside, and my grandmother burned herself a little trying to pull them apart when she noticed. (I think they were the mostly dead batteries we'd changed in the smoke detectors, but apparently they still got quite hot!)

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know - not a good idea, but I was confident in doing it safely for demonstration purposes! Ahh yes - the 9V battery trick is a classic, but can very easily cause a melt-down! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@lukeslocomotives]

What happens when you overload a controller? *Haha Controller go brrrrrrr*

[@SamsTrains]

haha that's true too! xD

[@mercuryoak2]

i have a Mrc Tech 2 2400 i never seen the overload light come on , however when i run my mantua steamers with an Athearn controller it will have the overload light come on if i run too much when i was testing the locomotive to see if it ran. mind you the motor was running no shorts just requires more draw.

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah I've heard that the Athearn locos draw loads of current - I wonder why that is?! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@samspade5962]

Just fit a line fuse in series with the line input lead say 500 ma depending on how may trains you have running.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes good idea John - that would work well! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@FreedomLovingLoyalistOfficial]

The best CGI 0:21

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know - I'm very professional aren't I?! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@mot649]

KABOOM! Now that was a good experiment, loved it... sorry I haven’t Bering commenting, I’ve been busy recently.

[@SamsTrains]

haha thank you!! Nice to see you again! :3 Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@tmdrm9817]

my old tri ang has a button that comes popping up.

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh yes I've heard about those, never owned one though! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@eclipseplayzph4152]

Hey sam do you play guitar and is ur railway in the attic if you dont mind me asking

[@SamsTrains]

No I don't play guitar - I'm a piano guy! Yes it's in the attic! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@eclipseplayzph4152]

@@SamsTrains Can you play piano on vid

[@Mewtwo557]

Results in a nutshell Hornby: very safe, but good luck trying to get the thing working after Bachmann: no protection, but doesn't send enough current to be dangerous unless something jams in a loco GaugeMaster: slow HM2K: fun to watch Mahano: best overall and works after Makano: *O L D*

[@SamsTrains]

haha fantastic summary there - spot on!! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@thomasbird6053]

hello i am thinking about going to o gauge but i have a question, how do you power it do you use a power clip or somthing like that?

[@SamsTrains]

You may be able to - I just soldered the wires directly to the sides of each rail! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@MagicWaffles101]

I hope Sam hits 100k subs

[@SamsTrains]

That would be amazing!! Maybe next year?! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@jimross623]

Hi Sam, What happens with DCC controllers? Why weren’t they included in your test? Jim

[@SamsTrains]

Hey Jim, DCC controllers work very differently - they're designed to output much more current, and therefore have much more sensitive safety systems - all of mine cut out immediately! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@priscillawest6475]

Great explaination of how the controllers work also which one is the best 👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾😍😍😍😍😍😄😄😄😄

[@SamsTrains]

Thank you!! I prefer the HM2000 or the Gaugemaster myself! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@hearingthesmells2500]

8:02 kinda shocking lol 🥁

[@Station_Master_13]

I use a clipper controller. Its chunky and very old but its very reliable.

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh great to hear that - I'll have to try one! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@bentullett6068]

Some of these controllers have different plug types as well. I currently use a old Hornby R965 controller and the plug has some sort of relay cut out, I found this out as a little triang 040 Nellie keeps shorting due to a possible motor issue. You can tell it shorts as the plug will start clicking.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes I have heard that some controllers have protection in their adaptors - I'd argue that this is a poor design, as a change in adaptor could easily negate the protection! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@galaxy_bay1148]

Sam: to protect your controllers and locos Me: or dispose of you heljan steam locos Also great vid I honestly did not know how many ways you can short your controller.

[@SamsTrains]

haha yeah - I guess that would make things better too ;) Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@therwsmodeller6498]

Hello sam i wanna ask u some thing me hornby bill and ben keep hitting power cord on track do u know how to let them not do that??

[@SamsTrains]

Hmmm, maybe you could tape the cord down?? Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@therwsmodeller6498]

Bill still bumping tracks but it did help littel 😀😀

[@SimonLivertonCentral]

Very interesting video Sam. I watched a video last year when a chap was using a static grass applicator on a live layout with trains on it. He accidentally touched the track with the applicator and created a bad feedback which burnt out his decoders in the locomotives. I don’t think he will do that again…Simon

[@SamsTrains]

Blimey Simon - I hadn't thought about that - yes I suppose those static grass applicators must use high voltage - it makes sense that the current would travel through the tracks and locos in order to earth - very interesting! A cautionary tale definitely worth spreading! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@GeneralPurposeVehicl]

it looks like bachmann opted for a simple current limiting scheme rather than try to detect overloads.

[@sunj375]

have any reviews on the dcc controller R8213 select..thanks

[@SamsTrains]

I did cover it briefly in my video about getting started with DCC - check it out if you like! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@sunj375]

@@SamsTrains thanks had a look. just trying to understand the dcc and dc

[@axelhejnebo9142]

Very interesting indeed, really makes me wonder how my own old märklin transformator would do.

[@SamsTrains]

haha yeah - knowing Marklin, I imagine it'd perform very safely!! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@blisseyran-dom6822]

It would be interesting to see a Duette controller in this

[@SamsTrains]

It would actually!!

[@earthbaine9803]

Well done sam great video love these types as new to model railway my self and like to know what's good and what's not keep up the good work look forward to the next one

[@SamsTrains]

Thank you! Appreciate it mate! :D Cheers, Sam :)

[@railwaychannel66745]

When ever my model trains derail, I’m always next to the controller to bring the train to a complete stop before It short circuits

[@SamsTrains]

That's a good idea - thank for sharing! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@railwaychannel66745]

thank you when I first got Hornby I didn't know how to work it out

[@BlackHeart37498]

@@SamsTrains try putting a set of buffers between the two tenders and screws a divider too even out the slack between the tenders on the Frankenstein Schools Class Locomotive