What I learned building a budget DIY velomobile

[@VelomobileHarpiaBrasil]

Hello, I'm developing my own velomobile, made of carbon fiber and kevlar. I hope to finish the first one before the end of this year!

[@mnveloguy]

Good luck. I have seen your photos on Facebook.

[@MrPeterBL]

1 car and 1 velomobile works great for our family instead of two cars - and I really enjoy the exercise.

[@theDane70]

It still looks better than the cybertruck ...lol

[@mnveloguy]

If you set the standard low enough, it’s easy to exceed.

[@ArjenHaayman]

In the Netherlands I get the expences for my commute compensated. This is €0,21 per km. So over the 12 years I had my previous Quest that costed €6000 and was sold again at €1500 I even made a profit, because I've commuted some 8000 km/year totalling the compensation on roughly €20000. Not expensive at all!

[@mnveloguy]

I wish we had that here in the US. Unfortunately we are only compensated mileage if we drive a car, which I don’t.

[@SW-gf6zl]

Similar in Germany, @ArjenHaayman , although I don't know the exact figures. But even without that compensation, just the amount of fuel I don't have to buy for the car will amortise the VM in just a few years. And some VM riders even put paid advertisements on their VM, which help amortise it even faster.

[@G4Nazarener]

Is this compensation new in the Netherlands?

[@ArjenHaayman]

No not really

[@nonegone7170]

@@G4Nazarener 'Reiskostenvergoeding' definitely isn't new, but you don't get it with every job.

[@Vince7724]

your wood velomobile might not be efficient - but I'm sure it turns heads. it almost looks like it belongs in a classic car show

[@mnveloguy]

It definitely looks nice on the outside. Inside and driving, not so much. A museum might be the best location for it.

[@Spinnie1]

@@mnveloguy Wouldn't an electric assisted drive be a good option to add to that velomobile?

[@mnveloguy]

@@Spinnie1 to the wooden one? I did add assist to that one. It helped with speed, but only up to the legal cutoff. However, the steering on the wooden bike has never been quite right. It eats through tires very quickly and has a dangerous wobble above 20mph. I may someday fix those problems, but I don’t really trust that bike anymore and I frankly enjoy riding my Bülk a lot more. I can go just as fast without assist in the Bülk and it’s lighter and easier to maneuver.

[@davidcarr2649]

I'm building an extremely unconventional velomobile. It is a 40% scaled version of the Tesla Cybertruck. I expect to have it mobile at the end of June this year. Where it will shine (everywhere because of the stainless steel appearance) will be off-road. It has a dual drive system, one is 2WD, pedal assist 250w, limited to 25kph or 15mph (chain to both rear wheels). The other is 4x4 8kw with an estimated top speed of maybe 40kph or 25mph. 20x4 fat tyres, all independent suspension, side mounting 20mm axles. Front brakes are 180mm hydrolic, rear brakes are 160mm cables with a park brake. It has a powered reverse, cruise control 12v road class lighting (headlights, 2x 20inch light bars, indicators, rear stop/tail light bar, car horn, bike horn, +bike bell. Full steel chassis with polycarbonate windscreen, tinted roof, and side windows, full sheet aluminium floor, polycarbonate panel (that looks like stainless, sorta) skin. Adjustable coil-over hydrolic shock absorbers all round. On board inverter for mains like power, ample usb ports, the same kind of features we saw on the Cybertruck prototype with the rear tailgate becoming a ramp, the Vault cover, large 1500lb load limit on the rear shocks. Standard car tow bar and ball with 12v trailer plug port. Yes, probably going to be heaps of weight, close to 160lbs for the batteries, wheels, motors, brakes, suspension, and tyres alone. Then, the framework is 120lbs, the windows and skin I have no idea, maybe 50lbs. That's 330 lbs or 150kg without myself and my Pomeranians. Overall costs are high when you factor in the time involved, but the costs have been spread out in a kinda pay as I build fashion. Everything should total almost $8k AUD which is a little over $5k USD. This DOES NOT account for the almost 4 hours of time (sorry, I meant 4 years!) invested planning, researching, designing, reverse engineering, ordering, and building it.

[@johnyang1420]

Modern velomobiles are marvels of engineering excellence.

[@mnveloguy]

No question. The level of refinement in the design and build quality blows my mind. The ones from velomobile world usually come in around 24kg or less, are stiff, and the new models are all impressively fast. So much better airflow through the cockpit, better maintenance access. Really impressive.

[@jasonnealey8325]

Great video, I wonder is there a reason you don't add electric assist ? I bought a very vintage Alleweder it's quite heavy and I live in Seattle where hills are unavoidable , I still ride my recumbant trike decked out in Aero d. Trispoke in back wheel covers up from , time trial water bottle etc . I love my velo but it's very imprecise, feeling like flying an old biplane . Still I Love it and the people's reactions are priceless especially kids . By the way your coraplast velo is actually really awesome and the cedar strip velo although heavy is very beautiful, I've seen a few of your videos in the past and admired the 1st version before you put the carbon front on it , anyway I think you sell yourself short for your creations .

[@mnveloguy]

@@jasonnealey8325 the models being produced now are very light and stiff. When I can cruise in the mid-20 mph range, there’s no reason to add assist. Class 2 assist is limited to 20mph. I average more than that on most rides. On my cedar velomobile I did end up adding assist to make it rideable. I have thought about maybe installing assist in my commuter velomobile in the winter when rolling resistance gets really high, but I honestly don’t need it. I just plan a few extra minutes for the commute and figure it’s a good workout and will make me that much faster come summer. The amount of refinement and development since the alleweder is significant. Handling, aerodynamics, performance, weight, stiffness, safety, etc are all leaps and bounds beyond the alleweder. The only advantage of that model now is that it is pretty robust.

[@jasonnealey8325]

@@mnveloguy I'm aware the Alleweder is old tech heavy and slow but I bought it for 1200 dollars it was being used as an electric car , the brake lever was on the wrong side it had many issues and I'm still working Thru some like needing new brakes for the Sturmey archer hub brakes . I would love to own something more modern. Mine is a bit of a rat rod , definitely crashed a few times . All in all I still very much love to ride it , with the steep hills and the nearly 90 pounds Electric assist is mandatory. I still love ridding my trike because with pure human power you have to beat that inner bitch towards the end of a ride when your power is faded and legs complaining, pushing thru that mental barrier is a great feeling . Right now what I've noticed is with assist I still pedal the whole time and I can take extended rides I'm the neighborhood of 60 miles , it's like long steady distance training where you ride long but don't push hard , I found after riding with e assist my endurance came up substantially when I just ride the trike. I certainly admire your journey and maybe I'm on a similar path , right now just grateful to have a velo even if it is a bit of a roach .

[@johnyang1420]

Yes…..from Pasadena/SoCal….I was about to buy it….but it was too small

[@Setrany]

I mean, there are bikes that cost 8-10k. A velomobile is vastly superior to a bike in (almost) every way. I get that its a steep price, I find it hard to justify the expense myself, but its not a huge overhead from the manufacturer's side, its simply costs this much to build a decent velomobile.

[@mnveloguy]

@@Setrany exactly right. And now the factory even offers a lower cost velomobile starting at around $6000.

[@Hads-nz]

I'm waiting on my Quatrevelo, might be the first in the country (NZ). I previously commuted via single speed, but hate the seat. We are a 1 car family, just 1 Suzuki Alto, I'm hoping have the Quatrevelo will mean I don't ever need the car when I'm going somewhere by myself.

[@mnveloguy]

I wish best of luck with your new QV and I hope it fulfills your every need.

[@G4Nazarener]

Cool! I used to travel NZ with a bike in 2004. The most people riding bike there were tourists. And the local people told me to be cautious because they car drivers are not used to bike riders. I’m wondering if this has changed a little bit. I believe there are only some view velomobils beside your Quatrovelo. Probably you’ll need a electric motor to get up the hills. I remember one hill was so steep that I had push my mountain bike.

[@mnveloguy]

There is a guy posting in the German velomobile forum about his plans to build a velomobile. He is also from New Zealand. I think at one point there might have been a DF velomobile there as well.

[@hoekie3652]

@@mnveloguy Yep. www.youtube.com/@kiwi_velonaut/videos

[@hoekie3652]

@@mnveloguy Yep, Marnix aka kiwi_velonaut from Blenheim, Marlborough, New Zealand

[@chrislatchem1854]

Wonderful cat too!

[@KACHUKHA]

Oh man these self made velomobiles are so damn classy. I mean, even the first one looks cool af, although probably not the best one to ride

[@mnveloguy]

Ha. I always thought my first one looked utterly ridiculous. Terrible to ride. The wooden one looks cool, but the heavy weight was no much fun. Trust me, the new ones from velomobile world are an amazing riding experience in comparison.

[@KACHUKHA]

@@mnveloguy well the first one looks a bit goofy but for a self constructed I find the geometry pretty neat. The second one is like a luxurious road vessel. Something to please the audience haha! I dream of trying out a velomobile, so I'm still looking for someone who could lend me his/hers for a little ride here in Upper Austria

[@mnveloguy]

@@KACHUKHA there are two dealers in Austria where you can schedule a test ride. Here is the dealer list www.velomobileworld.com/dealers/

[@manoman0]

The only way to drop prices is bulk purchase of materials and serial production. But then you have the issue of the market.

[@mnveloguy]

Materials are already purchased in bulk. The new Bülk 4 More is a budget priced velomobile. It’s built for as low a price as you reasonably can.

[@manoman0]

@@mnveloguy I meant rather producing these in an industrial level (economy of scales) but then again, there is simply not enough demand. However, thank you for the insight you share. I can only imagine the effort and other troubles that go into building these velomobiles!

[@mnveloguy]

@@manoman0 the intention of the 4 More is to generate substantial interest to allow more mass production, but even then, there is a limit to how cheaply they can be built. It’s a limit the 4 More is pushing hard against. Cost of labor, materials, profit margin for factory and dealers (needed to support the product at delivery and during use, especially for repair), and shipping all add up. Serial production doesn’t magically reduce the cost of labor. You still have to pay employees a fair wage, especially if you want them to do the manufacturing well. Shoddy work means a shoddy product, and at the speed Velomobiles are capable of, failure of parts can be catastrophic. €5499 for the N American market puts the new 4 More in the range of a lot of e-bikes and well below the range of quality road bikes. I’ve seen used Velomobiles for as low as $2500 recently too.

[@katcorot]

Trice T was what the Borealis was based on. I did put some serious thought into replacing my frame but unfortunately, recumbent trikes on the west coast of canada are horrendously expensive. I visited our only 2 shops, and the cheapest basic model available was $2,500-and it quickly ramped up to $12,000. By time I factored in my want of e-assist, the price difference locally for me was even between an open trike and a luxury velomobile

[@mnveloguy]

Wow.

[@monkeysalad]

"Ignorance is bliss" (Orwell),... not "innocence",...

[@robsonwaynne7811]

Deve ser muito bom ter um velomobile....a sensação de liberdade deve ser incrível e se ele tiver uma boa velocidade deve ser melhor ainda...eu farei o meu...e apresentarei aqui , mas o meu terá volante .😊

[@josephscanlan2271]

Would cotton fabric (denim or canvas) be a good alternative to carbon fiber?

[@mnveloguy]

No. It would also be a lot heavier.

[@nottelling41]

Fibreglass is amazingly tough and cheap so would be the obvious material to use for everything but it needs as much time, moulds and attention as carbon fibre. Sanding fibreglass is nasty prickly work best avoided with female moulds and vacuum bagging. Thin shells are noisy without foam. Electric bicycles and a minimal shell are a nice compromise. Winter is hard on bicycles!

[@johnmurrin9734]

great vid nicely done!

[@HarryPotter-kd3bh]

Godbless you for making this so I didn't go through the experience myself. To my surprise, I also had ideas to use the corrugated-plastic-cardboard style material (I see it used in politician voting lawn posters) in your red-yellow-black design. It looks like I'm headed to the online store to customize away!

[@mnveloguy]

Learn from my expensive mistakes. I like to be cheap and I swear every time I end up regretting it. I do not regret my Bülk. Not one bit. If you have any questions about the online store, feel free to contact me [e-mail]

[@recumbentguy]

I disagree with your statement that used velomobiles sell for 75% of new. That may have been true in some years but currently the used market seems to have more supply than demand and nothing is selling (based on the listings on U.S forums and marketplace). Or perhaps the demand has shifted to brand new and shiny since velomobile maintenance seemed to be a major concern to potential buyers when I sold a used velomobile earlier this year. What have you experienced selling your used W9?

[@mnveloguy]

My W9 has not sold yet, but I've had several interested people. I had a guy here today that would have been happy to take it home, but his legs were too long to fit. He and his wife ended up ordering two new Buelks from me while they were here. It does appear demand currently is for new models. Some of the used ones have been posted at close to new price and I think that is influencing resale. I may need to adjust the price on mine, but we'll see.

[@berndweinland7774]

Schönes Video und du scheinst erheblich an Reichweite zu gewinnen. 😊

[@mnveloguy]

Danke. Und danke fürs zuschauen. 👍🏻

[@212caboose]

I wonder if taking a page from boat building would help with the weight: Foam core with either fiberglass or CF overlay... I mean, lets be honest- you're not going to win against a car. The body doesn't need to be THAT strong. "no insurance, taxes, registration..." Yeah, that depends where you live. LOL For the most part, you're correct. But in MD, you're supposed to register your bike. It's actually ticketable. I'm sure once the gov't realizes people will accept it, they'll begin to require insurance as well, as they've already done with e-bikes (over a certain speed/power rating), scooters and mopeds.

[@mnveloguy]

@@212caboose there are a couple reasons foam core isn’t used. The biggest reason is that it would be be way to puncture the thin layer of carbon fiber over foam core, especially on the bottom of the velomobile. If you out enough CF over the core to prevent damage, you’d not save much if any weight. The other reason is that foam core really needs to be vacuum bagged. That involves a lot of wasted material and added expense (meaning higher price for a velomobile) and is less eco friendly in the end too. Regarding registration, I’m not seeing a state law in Maryland mandating registration. I did see Montgomery county requires it. Maybe you’re thinking county vs state? It doesn’t appear that there is any cost for that registration though. If there is, I would imagine it is a few dollars rather than the much higher cost to register a car. Bicycles have been around longer than cars. I think if it were going to be a mandatory license and insurance situation we would have already reached that point. I do think we’ll start seeing stricter laws about e-bikes though, which in my mind makes Velomobiles all that better of an option. Similar performance (aside from steep hills) as an e-bike without all the fuss of an actual e-bike. Plus weather protection.

[@sixtopuppo5995]

Hey how are you? Can you explain how open wheels ruins aerodynamic ? Its a very interesting subject

[@sixtopuppo5995]

Love your videos greetings from Argentina!

[@mnveloguy]

Thanks for watching. Open wheel wells disturb the smooth flow of air around the body. That causes drag. I’m the case of the velomobiel I built, my wheel wells were quite large and left the top Of the wheel exposed to the air. This made the aerodynamics even worse. There is a video on my channel from about two years ago testing the aerodynamics. I taped some panels over the wheel wells and was able to ride much faster.

[@mlee6050]

I got issue, I got recumbent but wish can buy velomobile without wheels, drive train (I got sram red etap that I be happy to slap on a velomobile)

[@mnveloguy]

It is possible Velomobile World would be willing to sell one like that. You would need the right axles with whatever wheels you chose instead and those wheels would need to be equipped with drum brakes to work with the struts we use. The rear wheels use a proprietary hub and you would need whatever rear wheel you use to be compatible with the rear swingarm. SRAM eTap May or May not fit. The space around the rear derailleur mount is quite small. I don’t know of anyone that has installed eTap so I would suggest asking in online forums if anyone has successfully installed one. I know it is possible to squeeze an Archer system into a Bülk.

[@mnveloguy]

I did ask a few people about the Red eTap. Consensus is that there is not sufficient room and it would be very difficult to access the charging port. Normally kn e a traditional derailleur is dialed in, it will stay dialed in for a good long time. The area where the derailleur is mounted is fully enclosed and protected from anything that could knock the derailleur out of alignment. Much more reliable than on a trike where the cage is close to the ground and can be struck by road debris and damaged.

[@mlee6050]

@@mnveloguy I mainly went with it as no cables to be replaced when not run as smoothly and you just detach battery to charge away from bike Okay thanks for your help, in time if I get more space I might get one as they are to enjoy

[@avgFloridian]

0:32 Brother, I've rarely spent more than that on a car!

[@mnveloguy]

So you don’t spend anything on gas, maintenance, insurance, or repairs?

[@nottelling41]

BYD sells the BYD Seagull for less than $10K in China and that's a full blown new electric car. I love velomobiles but they are just for areas that ban cars because they cause so many deaths, congestion, pollution and depreciation

[@jjackson3240]

Is your Quest "Spot" from San Diego?

[@mnveloguy]

Not sure. It’s been long enough since I purchased it. It’s no longer on the road. It was destroyed by a distracted driver back in March.

[@johnyang1420]

Yes….but from Pasadena. I tried it and it was top small.

[@Homested_Happenings]

Love wooden WAWs

[@russ63gibson]

I am considering a bülk, but it looks like shipping costs as much as the velomobile. Are there less expensive options for shipping?

[@mnveloguy]

Where are you located? Send me an email [e-mail] and I can help you with shipping options.

[@mnveloguy]

If you are in the US, see the video posted today March 8, 2024 about the €500 shipping promotion to the US.

[@kali_yuga4140]

I would like to but there are so many F350s where I live, this would be suicidal.

[@mnveloguy]

See the video I just posted. Plenty of trucks here too, but I believe there are still safe cycling options. My newest video might be helpful for you.

[@TaigiTWeseDiplomat--Formosan]

😮😮

[@DrewNorthup]

You're still better off than I am… I "bought" an FAW+ kit for $7k from Texas that will never show up and I have zero expectation that David will refund me-if he's even still alive. Just buy one that's already fully built.

[@mnveloguy]

That’s the absolute pits. I’m sorry you got scammed!

[@DrewNorthup]

@@mnveloguy What's really sad is the he'd had a 20 year reputation of being an honest, if occasionally slow, vendor. That's the only reason I was willing to buy from him (other than needing the rest of my cash for other purposes). So yeah, just buy a finished one.

[@klausbrinck2137]

5:07 But I didn´t know anything about Rotovelo being slow cause it was heavy...! I always thought, that it was slow cause of not-being earodynamic... Its form was flawed, and that can be easilly corrected, if Rotovelo had designed the correct molds in the first playce... So, that argument of yours doesn´t cound in this case, I think... The shell-construction-method wasn´t THAT flawed at all, it was just the shell-form, that was flawed... If they had simply copied the form of a successfull race-velombile, it would have been pretty fast. I think the Rotovelo simply wasn´t long enough in order to be aerodynamic. Simply too short and too thick. Moral of the story: building industrial-grade-quality velomobiles at home, isn´t reachable yet, if you cannot work with carbonfiber. My bet is on 3D-printed-foaming materials, in big 3D-printers (beyond 1000$). The shell is very thick-walled, and thus very sturdy... But its weight is ultralow. If then a single layer of carbonfiber is applied on top, it protects the surface against some eating or the weather. Also an easier getting-on/off the velo would then become important, one with more comfort, and less contact-points with the shell. Cause when built like that, it wouldn´t be strong enough, to support the driver´s weight when getting-on/ff (like at 6:38)...

[@mnveloguy]

I think you misunderstood my comments about the rotovelo. I said it was slow AND heavy, not slow because it was heavy. It is slow because the tail is too short and the nose is not an ideal aerodynamic shape. It is also quite wide and has too much frontal area. It was designed to be durable rather than to be a race bike. But even with a more aerodynamic design it still will not accelerate or climb as well as a well-designed lightweight carbon fiber velomobile. The rotovelo also lacks a fully enclosed drivetrain so parts wear out faster. I have heard from people before who wanted to design a foam shell. The thickness you are thinking about will add more weight than you think. A single layer of carbon fiber will also be very easy to damage if you run over something or accidentally bump something sharp against it. Of course this also will have to be a shell around a trike instead of a monocoque carbon fiber velomobile. In the end you will be surprised to find it will likely weigh more than the commercial carbon fiber Velomobiles. This i can tell you from many people who have had these ideas and my own experience. If you want a lightweight shell on a trike, it is better and cheaper to use Coroplast.

[@klausbrinck2137]

@@mnveloguy Thanks for answering, I seem to have overlooked your answer till now... :-( Anyways, I didn´t mean a styrofoam-shell, but a 3d-printed one with foaming materials (that expand 3fold during extrusion, with optional pre-designed voids in the structure for even more "lightweight", what´s impossible to make with styrofoam). That´s still 6x-denser than styrofoam, but sturdier and harder. Imagine the Rotovelo-plastic-shell being 3x-thicker (added structural stability, stiffness), but weighting the same, while one can still design it such, that there´s voids inside it, without compromising stiffness (thereby "lightening" it by 2/3x). You end up with a Quest-velomobile-weight, with less room inside (cause the walls are thicker now), but possibly sturdier (cause of said thickness). As it´s only plastic after all, I thought, that an additional single layer of carbon-fiber would improve the surface´s performance against the weather (but maybe not against a crash). Still, it´s a shell put on a trike, and not an all-carbon-fiber velomobile, but now, one has a chance, at least... ;-) I know of this material from this "cnc-kitchen"-YT-video: 2tmgzwgi2UI

[@mnveloguy]

@@klausbrinck2137 good luck. The best way to know of your theory is correct is to try it.

[@klausbrinck2137]

@@mnveloguy ;-) ;-) ;-)

[@jaymzgaetz2006]

For the price considering hypothetical savings...NO, NEVER, AND NOT EVER. It's a bicycle dude.

[@mnveloguy]

It's a bicycle that can do tour de france speeds at average person power levels on the flat and downhills. Ever priced a high-end carbon bicycle? It's the same or higher price than a velomobile. And for that price you get a very uncomfortable seat up your ass and squeezing your balls. Not to mention the tension on your arms, wrists, elbows, and neck. None of that unergonomic nonsense with a velomobile. Mine has largely replaced my car so I'm not spending hundreds of dollars on gas and maintenance per month.

[@nonegone7170]

@@mnveloguy Hell even a Riese & Muller bike can easily exceed the costs of a velomobile, with lesser quality running gear usually...

[@micheals1992]

You'd have thought by now that the chinese would've started copying them but they haven't. 😅

[@mnveloguy]

I would not want to ride a chinese built velomobile. Their typical low level of quality control would create a velomobile not just unpleasant to drive, but potentially quite dangerous to drive given how easy it is to hit high speeds in a velomobile. You get what you pay for. After having been to the factory twice now, I have to say given the amount of work and detail that goes into building a velombile, they are a bargain at their current price, especially the budget friendly 4More (see my videos on this new model.)

[@nonegone7170]

@@mnveloguy That's quite a statement, considering 90-95% of bicycle frames are made in China (Yes, all those major European brands too) And considering they're pretty much the front runner in electric vehicles right now, it's highly likely even you will ride/drive a chinese one eventually ; )

[@mnveloguy]

@@nonegone7170 I would trust the Chinese to lay up the carbon fiber shell, but not to assemble one. The difference in labor costs between Romani and China isn’t very large frankly. The idea that the Chinese could produce the same quality of product for a fraction of the cost is largely a myth. The way the Chinese do this is by using very low quality parts. Bargain basement shifters and cables, poor quality carbon fiber (or more likely fiberglass), more finish quality in the paint, cheap chain and chain tubes, inconsistent installation quality of the steering components. These are the things you’d have to be willing to accept in a Chinese made Velomobile. I don’t think those issues would make riding one very pleasant. I’ve ridden Chinese assembled cheap bikes. They aren’t very fun. Look at the cheap bike reviews GCN has done. The brakes especially are scary. I would not want scary brakes on a 70+ lb velomobile.