What I Learned From a Toxic Tank

I like to talk so I thought it would be fun to talk about this c:
My Links
ASMR channel: ‪@aithereaasmr‬
Discord: / discord
Twitch: / aitherea
Twitter: / aitherea
Ko-fi: ko-fi.com/aitherea
Throne Gifts: thronegifts.com/u/aitherea
Chapters:
0:00 - 4:24 The incident
4:25 - 6:09 Wait for the DPS
6:10 - 8:38 The Toxic Part
8:39 - 9:10 Vote Kicking Issues
9:11 - 12:19 How toxicity affects sprouts
12:20 - 15:06 DPS Are Important
15:06 - 15:31 Just Be Nice!
15:32 - 16:39 Share Your Toxic Stories

[@insanecurity]

I want to share a nice story I had when I started out as White Mage: Got an ARR dungeon on duty roulette, I was already nervous and sweating as it was going to be my first time healing. I got grouped with 3 veteran players, and there I was, an inexperienced sprout white mage. Told my teammates I was a baby healer and the tank decided to not pull big mobs at all. We only ever fought the enemies on our way one by one. Never more than that. We were slow and no one was talking in chat so I got a little embarrassed and in my whirlpool of emotions I accidentally died to a mechanic. I apologized in chat and made my way back to my teammates. When I arrived they were all standing there hyping me up and sending me kiss and hug emotes. They told me in chat that I can do it and they appreciated me and that I'll get the hang of it. It gave me so much courage and I felt so good after completing that dungeon, I still think about those 3 players from time to time and I am so grateful to them.

[@BlackRoseThornEtna]

loved this!! I know in my savage raids i always try to encourage people that are new to the fight espically if they verbally express how frusterated or sorry they are for making mistakes. Though this does make me remember a time when I had just returned to the game as a tank, my gear wasn't that great, where doing the new dungeon would of been a gear upgrade for me and I would pull one group at a time, I don't remember if said anything but the healer decided to walk a head and pull extra for me, I don't belelive i died but this was pretty frusterating.

[@JamieM5185]

You sound like me in my first dungeon as a healer! I thought I was gonna have an anxiety attack cause I was so worried of letting them down

[@MangyPL]

You mean 1 pack at a time, I hope? Lol

[@Controvi]

Had the same experience. As a Scholar and as a White Mage. I jumped over from Black Mage to Arcanist to get into the Scholar job and boy was I nervous when I had my first healing dungeon. But no matter what, every time I started a dungeon and said I was still new to the job, everybody in chat just send possitive vibes. Tanks telling me they will take it easy, dps'rs tellen me I could do it and not to worry. It was amazing. I now main a Scholar and have Sage and White Mage laying around to help a friend of mine who also started playing the game as Paladin. The community in large has been amazing

[@unixtreme]

I played sage for the first time not long ago and got in a roulette with 2 mentors. I explained it was my first dungeon and they kept encouraging me and saying things lol "you are a natural". I know they were just encouraging me but it kinda made me enjoy the job xD

[@Angels-Grace]

A small reminder for fellow Tank enjoyers: Arm's Length is also a defensive tool you should use in Dungeons.

[@legendofthewest2326]

as a Tank main i agree this skill is soo underrated.

[@umbriel706]

@@legendofthewest2326This, it took me a few dungeons into my ARR playthrough to get it through my head, better late than never!

[@Mor1adim]

Invulns are for trash mobs too

[@legendofthewest2326]

@@umbriel706 yeah thats true :)

[@Controvi]

When I tried to become a Paladin to try out tanking as a healer main, I constantly told people at the start of dungeons I was new to tanking. At the end I always got told I was better then 99% of tanks because they saw me use Arms Length XD

[@DICEBOY22]

I'm a Tank (Palidan, Dark Knight and Gunbreaker ) yeah I will do those kind of my pulls... but if my team cant handle I always follow up with a "my bad" and just pull less.

[@idno4856]

This seems less of a situation of the team not being able to handle it and more the rank not realising they can avoid the environmental effects while teammates can't. They could have pulled but then brought the mobs back towards the DPS (if they wanted to insist on the pull size)

[@carlsonjf]

as others have said. “Those kind of pulls” were never intended for ARR dungeons. Most jobs dont have the tools at lower levels (some dont even get AOE till super late). W2W in HW+ dungeons are 2-3 packs. This pull was 6 packs. So. Doing that pull at this level in that dungeon just shows the group that the tank doesn’t know much and definitely doesn’t know anything about the other people in the group. Hes a noob.

[@cressposting]

The best way to do this pull is to pull to that first light tpbget all the nixes as one pull. Then pull the rest with the boss. It's way easier than this massive pull and takes the same amount of time. The actual optimal way that there is no way would work in df is just to say pull and skip it all. Why bother killing trash if you don't need to.

[@leonfurry]

YES! Same! I always apologize for doing more than we can handle as a synergized group.

[@robrivera2645]

How about ask if the healer is ok with big pulls, this will prevent wiping and having to start over with smaller pulls. Look for your team mates as you are the Tank we all depend on you to get through the dungeon or raid in one piece. As a dps I don't mind the big pulls I've been playing the game long enough to follow the tank and wait until you have all the trash mobs pulled before I go ham on dps.

[@myob2dac]

being mean to someone with a sprout icon is micro weenie behavior

[@kungfuvoodoo9889]

I love how they were also like this is an alt, you guys are just inexperienced without stopping once to consider having a shred of self-awareness and that Aitherea was making solid points about not having the higher level scholar spells ( cuz sure, a sprout scholar would tooootally know their high level toolkit at that point in the game). But yes, the more important point than the tank being idiotic was that they were being toxic and deserve to get reported.

[@ateezinx6448]

I think being mean to ANYONE is "micro weenie behavior". I do get that we should especially support sprouts but I feel like people keep forgetting that we're all just human and there's better way to handle situations, even when there's no sprout icon in sight. (But I do agree with what you said though)

[@ErdrickLoto86]

My first time being yelled at when I first started playing this as a actual sprout was when I was leveling BLM and was running Sunken Temple of Qarn. I got yelled at by another dps because I wasn't dpsing hard enough and mobs took long to kill. My partner was tanking and had a few choice words to that person. "Why would you yell at a sprout!" my partner said.

[@aaronsmith784]

I've had similar experiences from time to time. Some people seem to think that the only factor in what makes someone a good tank is if they wall-to-wall every pull. In some of these older ARR dungeons, it very much displays the opposite. The ARR dungeons were not designed with those kind of pulls in mind, and while it still works fine in some, in others it does not. Actually talented tanks know the distinction, have a better understanding of what kind of abilities their healers have available at that level, and know what kind of pulls are manageable. The irony is that bad tanks like the one you encountered, who are obsessed with going fast, inevitably make the dungeon take longer by getting the group killed and forcing you to try again.

[@Lyu-Phy]

Especially because you never know how good the healer follows along, or the group as a whole, dps is equally as important as the healer and tank working together, the faster things die the less damage taken and healing needed. That is if the tank in question knows their shit, has the adequate gear (and also pays attention to the healers gear) etc. The same goes for the healer. All this has an extra layer of caution in older content and wall to wall is not always the answer in those circumstances. Generally yeah, but a solid tank knows when to be more careful. You see the behavior you describe all the time with players that think they got it all down, always airheaded and then shift to blame you for it.

[@onigirls]

@@Lyu-Phy Yeah exactly and the DPS is actually so important, the faster they clear the less risk there is of the tank or healer running out of resources (whether they were mismanaged or not). I don't get why people need to have an ego about this :/ As if they can't acknowledge that being adaptable is a very real part of being good at the game, not just doing the same thing everytime and throwing blame around whenever there are consequences for their actions :(

[@qamarqammar7629]

Especially when videos and guides keep telling new tanks they better be pulling wall to wall, with no cotext given to that statement, or they are bad. As you say, it can be done in the some of the older ARR dungeons with the right group, and in others, it just cannot. When I tank lower level content I do go fast when I can, but rule 1 is know your party. And if the healer or the dps are miles behind me then I'm going too fast. (And if the healer is running ahead and bringing mobs to me I'm going too slow.) But the truth is the game plays so differently at endgame that there are experienced high level players who have long forgotten how to behave in lower level content or remember how limited the kits can be. Example, it's true that Stone Vigil got all its bosses nerfed. But big pulls with a WHM in there often fail - because WHM has nothing but a regen and a Cure2 at that level and if you're expecting some Holy Spam you're going to be out of luck.Lower level content may be easy but it is the first content new players see and the place where they judge whether or not they will learn with us or just go with the Trusts.

[@ImmaPandaRawr]

I think some veterans players forget that Darkhold and Aurum Vale (maybe even Stone Vigil) have a sudden difficulty spike. For new tanks, healers, and to some extent dps it can be a hard change to adjust to. I’ve run into healers who can’t keep up because the tank insist on pulling huge pulls and they don’t know when the pull is going to end so they keep stopping to try to heal and then lose los and by the time they catch up everyone’s dying. Skill kits in low levels don’t offer as much which is another thing people forget. Sometimes new players just got a new skill and haven’t mastered how to best utilize it yet. I’ve seen new tanks try to do smaller pulls and then impatient players go off to pull more which confuses the tank. I’ve had a group wipe because of this due to an impatient bard who wanted to do bigger pulls overriding the sprout tank. Patience would help a lot. And just talking to your group on what everyone is comfortable with.

[@Controvi]

That's exactly my experience. Those dungeons are very hard on healers. Especially the barrier healers like Scholar. Man did I have nightmares on Stone Vigil after running it for the first time XD

[@WhywolfSenpai]

In my experience Brayflox's Longstop is another one like this because the incoming damage is a spike compared to the previous dungeon, a lot of dps still don't have aoe, and healer kits still don't have much to deal with it comfortably.

[@piicii86]

This and also I can imagine some tanks being over confident after the initial huge pull you can do in Darkhold because of the crystal light buff. But everything else tend to hurt a lot in there

[@Jeycht]

It's not the case anymore since .. I don't remember when. A long time ago. They have nerf those dungeons a lot. They are not harder than any other dungeons now. And let's be honest. Even as veteran I don't remember struggling back then anyway. The worst was Aurum and ONLY because of people standing in yellow pool taking tons of damage.

[@unixtreme]

​@@Jeychtthe pull she's showing in this video cannot be done on certain comps on leveling gear. DPS don't have enough AOE. Healers don't have enough cool downs, and they end up blowing all the CDs and just spamming their biggest healing GCD while tank HP dwindles down.

[@Dracounguis]

Healing at a low level is actually harder than max level because all the tools you are used to having are not there! A smart tank would know that. Because they don't have their entire toolbox either.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

And because the "dungeons" at higher levels are just paths with 2 groups. With the exception of Mt. Gug.

[@Dracounguis]

@@RicardoSantos-oz3uj yes Square Enix has kind of formalized how they want dungeons run in later expansions. It's nearly impossible to do a 'wall to wall' pull and get yourself into an impossible to survive the situation.

[@shouter0086]

Not me panicking every time because all my usual ogcds (or sometimes just things like cure II) aren't available and pressing their shortcut won't do a thing xD

[@Lyu-Phy]

Yeah and enemies also hit harder as well, due to weirder pulls you can make in older content

[@danelwind2574]

Yesterday I was running a Dungeon on WM and recently got Cure II. Due to the dungeon level however, the skill was disabled and during a big pull some of us died (I felt horrible because I put Cure II in the key that previously had Cure I) I apologized and the tank was very comprehensive. Still, I sometimes get Healer anxiety due to bad experiences at other games.

[@kosbebot6360]

People keep discounting the role of dps in big pulls, but if stuff don't die quickly you'll be in a bad spot. Tank should have noticed dps wasn't there and backed up a bit for los.

[@Lyu-Phy]

People need to get it into their head: more dps = less damage taken, less healing/resources needed etc. A dps is a supporter in reverse.

[@dalgona4819]

This. I remember having such problems in EW dungeons, the DPS is too low that my mitigations and the Healer struggled. Sometimes the damage is so low you'd actually notice it.

[@Controvi]

I am a Scholar main but started using Paladin at some point to learn about tanking in general. It's not really my thing but wanted to see it from their side at least. Now that I know I usually call out the tank when he is moving too fast and I see the dps struggling. Having the party together is sooooo important.

[@cryzals2953]

I don't understand how you could discount them to begin with, like... they're normally the highest damage dealers, more damage given = less damage taken. Swear common sense is not so common anymore...

[@ovted129]

yeah often times W2W will use 2/3rds of my CD's as healer which means if they aren't going down fast I will reach into the last little bit and after that I'm out. my heal spams are on a soft enrage so to say.

[@leffed2109]

And these are the people who say "well if they can't handle it they should just use duty support" and then also complain that queue-times are long or that people are babies when they don't want to play with people in an MMO. People like this just suck and I am happy you vote-kicked them!

[@ghostfury530]

I'm truly happy you decided to talk about this. I (WoW refugee and wee sprout) was running the dungeon with the demon boss that has the door mechanic. I forget it's name. And I had a bard being very toxic towards me because I was trying to take the lead and figure out the mechanics of the fight since it seemed like our healer and other DPS were inexperienced with that fight too. The bard kept saying rude things to us after each wipe instead of telling us the mechanic and after I found out he knew the fight (3 wipes in) I asked him to do the door mechanic since I didn't have confidence in my ability to tank and do the doors. He proceeded to ignore me and we wiped twice more before he ultimately left with some hurtful parting words. Luckily we managed to kill it in 2 more pulls after I told the other members to let me handle the doors (we accidentally opened 2 doors with different symbols) and we beat it. The others players were shocked that such horrible like that guy existed but we ended up friending each other because of the the positivity we all shared despite it. Toxicity is the reason I left WoW and it was unfortunate to run back into it here. I consider myself lucky he was the first toxic person I met after 2 months on the game

[@idno4856]

At least you were able to find some friends through that experience! That's been the case for me in the past (tho that bard seemed to be on another level). But that kind of behaviour is more the exception than the norm

[@markup6394]

Maybe he was also an ex-WoW player? XD Nah, that was uncalled for, sorry ^^° Yeah, toxic people exist, sadly, and sometimes you're just unlucky. At least you three seemed to get along well, so... thats a win. Personally (also coming from WoW), in the four years playing FF14 I could count the toxic people on one hand - okay, both, four years is a long time after all :P Sometimes, people just have a bad day or... whatever. Cant be helped, but in general if somethings goes wrong, people dont flame right away. I had too many groups with repeated wipes and we all managed to keep our spirits up. Thats usually the norm :)

[@carlsonjf]

Sorry that happened. That is a crazy boss if you dont know the mechanics. I would bet you the bard didn’t know them either but was just enough of a jerk to want to make it your fault because you’re the tank and he’s an RDPS so he never has to take any responsibility or do any real DPS (seriously tho. Probably 10% of bards seem to know how to play and do good damage). No one would get all the way to the last boss and wipe that many times and then leave (and take the 30 min penalty) and not get any credit for the run if they knew what to do and they could just be done with it. If someone says they know the mechanics and die with everyone else and dont offer any help they are lying. Know this - most DPS love tanks and healers and are happy to spend any extra time to help you progress and learn all the things. When you run into anything else - they are the outlier and the exception. Blacklist them and hopefully you’ll never see them again.

[@idno4856]

@@carlsonjf I didn't even think about that in this instance but you're probably right

[@sammicoporsammicopor]

Do what I do, if someone is toxic, report them & then put them on your blacklist

[@estel-randir]

You can't save stupid. But good on you for trying.

[@liquidcourage6414]

Had a similar experience recently; I have level 90 in all healers and 80+ in tank roles and ended up in Haukke Manor on the leveling roulette as a SCH. The tank (PLD with no shield equipped) proceeded to pull EVERYTHING from the start to the first locked door (which he also kept spamming chat with "door" wanting someone to open it so he could pull even more)). Initially I thought "Oh ok we are doing this?" so yeah, about 4-5 packs of mobs the maidens using their room ride terror ability making everyone move around and I notice that the tank isn't using any mit at all and no mobs are dead yet. Thats when it hit me that both of our DPS had no AoE at the level sync. So the tank died in seconds despite me spamming adlo and physick and anything else in my kit and of course everyone else followed. I suggested not pulling so much as we didn't have AoE "u don't I do" was all the tank said and did the same again. He also made a point to tell me to stop spamming shield and do damage; bare in mind he wasn't using any mitigation at all and had no shield equipped, so anytime I wasn't healing he was almost dead with that many mobs beating on him. I apologized to the others and left as this was clearly someone who thought they knew everything and clearly knew nothing.

[@Lequexo]

Yeah you can do this but you.. need your healer to run ahead with 20sec sprint to avoid line of sight issues during chip dmg that happens as the tank pulls... you need every little piece of mitigation on the tank with arms length... you need good aoe from your underleveled 2 dps... it's super likely to fail if not everyone is on the same page, so just do 2 frog pull and then the rest... which is like infinitly more easy for most random group in this dungeon and very little can go wrong.

[@YabbyUra]

Not to mention you’re not even 50 in this dungeon, so the limited CD suite you have at 50 doesn’t even apply here. Just painful all-around.

[@carlsonjf]

That pull is 6 packs of mobs. LOS issues are terrible. Most jobs have SUPER poor AOE scaled down to 44/46. You could do it unsynched ;) but in a standard group it just means the tank is really bad at their job and needs some more experience. If the healer was WHM you’d have the instacast regen while running that might help and then you’d have holy that might help but ALL 4 would have to be stood on top of each other and you would have to burn them down and even then its a 1:3 chance you could do it. It’s just dumb all around.

[@Kenshin6321]

I main healer, and I encountered a similarly toxic tank player on this same dungeon, except mine was even dumber. I had a tank with a mentor icon, do a full pull but in the first area where you have to stand in the circles and the boss hits you with a big AoE if you're not standing in the light. Well, the tank thought it was a good idea to do a full pull without the DPS, and didn't even bother to stand in the light. He put his mitigation on way too late and we all died. I said to him "What are you doing? If you don't stand in the light, you take too much damage." He said "I wasn't healing fast enough." I told him "I used nearly all of my MP trying to keep you alive, had you pulled correctly, we would have lived." He said "Maybe if you healed faster we wouldn't have died." I did not say anything else at that point. I was SO tempted to just leave, but I decided to stay because we did have someone who was new. Dealing with toxic players is REALLY frustrating. Thankfully, these types of situations are few and far between, but I can guarantee you most, if not all Healer mains have had to deal with toxic DPS and toxic tanks at least once. Whenever I'm tanking, I gauge whether or not the healer can keep up after the first pull. If I see he struggles, i take it slow, and I don't like taking it slow, but you gotta play within your team's ability. Even when I had a healer spam holy and forget to heal me and I die, I don't get frustrated with them, ESPECIALLY if they are new because maybe they are still learning and didn't realize I was that close to dying. I'm glad we don't have too many toxic player, but I say you handled it pretty well. Also thanks for sharing your story because it makes me feel like I'm not the only one dealing with these type of people. And from what I find, it's almost always people who have been playing for a long time and don't realize how bad they really are.

[@Aitherea]

If I die and it's the healers fault I'm probably not going to say anything because I usually don't see the point. Dying isnt the end of the world and it's literally just a game xD. Maybe theyre having an off day or just had a bit of tunnel vision. It's fine. I'll pull less and we will get through it xD Honestly, in most cases if i pull a lot and I die ill just be like "oop my bad, guess i shouldnt pull so many next time" cuz honestly i am not that good at tanking anyway xD

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

Why is always a burger king enthusiast.

[@SilentAdventurerNumber02]

I main tank and I always watch my HP and the healer MP from the first pull. Am I dying? Is the healer running out of MP? Do I know if the healer have enough tools to keep me alive? From those question I can adjust the pulls. If everything is alright then I'll try to pull more, if not then I'll pull less.

[@BlackRoseThornEtna]

@@SilentAdventurerNumber02Usually in dungeons you can survive as a tank with minimal healing if your using your kit effectively even if it's just medical II spam, besides you aren't doing them any favors by taking it slow for them, as Yoshi pi has once said a game needs more pitfalls to feel rewarding. Exsample if you die because the whm forgot to heal during holy spam they will be more attentive next time, and try harder to remember to heal, even if it's only slightly more, if you pull less and they can get away with no healing and just doing holy spam they won't get thaht sense of accomplishment of remembering to jump over that hole. I know for me personally I get so frusterated when the tank dies because I didn't heal enough and than proceeds to pull less, so when I fall in the hole, I plug it up before I get a chance to overcome it. like I get it, they just want to clear the dungeon and not wait for me to git good.

[@Controvi]

May I thank you my fellow FF14 player for being a kind tank :) As Healer I appreciate you a lot haha. But seriously, thanks. I know how easy it is for a tank to get too focused on pulling as I tried my hand at it as well. But one of my first mistakes, when I started pulling multiple mobs, was trying to pull multiple mobs and not noticing the mobs drop off my aggro. It made me far more aware of what the tank has to keep track of and now try to support the tank as Scholar when I see signs of something going wrong. I always got kind replies from tanks thanking me for the heads-up :)

[@EluviumMC]

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.-George Carlin

[@cyberdaikaiju]

I'm new to FF14, but this reminds me of back in the day playing Wow. It was the end of Burning Crusade, and I had nearly this exact experience while playing with randoms. The tank pulled so much so fast that it took all my mana to keep the party up. I asked to wait or mana, and he just said "No" and pulled the next two rooms. nobody followed him and he died. He raged at us all and told us we were all bad players, and said I was the worst healer in the game. Which was funny, because I was the lead healer in one of the larger guilds on the server I was on. We ended up vote kicking him, and the Hunter's bear took over main tank and we finished the dungeon a man down without any problems. Really soured me on playing with randoms for a while.

[@reddobr]

Something I read in a MMORPG forum twenty years ago just keeps proving itself true, with regards to random groups: "It's not worth it. It's never worth it.". Personally, if I can't vote kick the problem I just read the room and leave myself. There are games where there's a threat to stick around to the end no matter what (specially MOBAs), but in MMORPGs there is no such thing: as soon as you stop having fun, you can leave the group, Alt+F4, or even AFK if you're petty. You can't be held hostage in MMORPGs. And it's never worth it to stick around. Even if it was a healer issue, a good tank would just notice it and adapt, which automatically makes it no longer a healer issue. The nice thing about FF is that these events are few and far between. On other MMORPGs is pretty much 9 in 10 groups.

[@Controvi]

True. I can't talk about how much it happens in other mmo's but as Scholar I have in my 300 hours with it, had maybe 2 bad people start being annoyed by doing stuff I couldn't keep up with. The rest was always friendly and kind.

[@JeremyS.-ug3sp]

It really is a lot rarer in FF14, I think thats why the bad experiences stick out so much. Most of the time if you mess up people offer useful help or advice and you just go at it again till you get it done.

[@YueXiong93]

its the tank's job to gauge the healing and also damage to decide the pacing of the dungeons. its what i do.

[@Controvi]

I always appreciate the first words of a tank in chat "Healer, how fast can I go?" When I read that I usually know the tank has lots of experience and I know he can pull a lot without my constant attention :) Love that

[@vespi57]

I'm a Paladin main and I can tell this was not your fault, Aitherea. That corridor is a place where many parties have wiped due to overpulling. I tend to pull 2 mobpacks at a time here, because very often healer or DPS get left behind if tank pulls everything all the way to the boss. Even I have experienced what you have when I was healer here, but without toxicity. As a tank main, I know how important it is to keep the dungeon pace suitable for everyone. This guy clearly only thought about himself, and that is one of the worst traits a tank can have.

[@soldierorsomething]

But mr paladin, you have no heals before lvl 54, so pulling entire dungeons is not a good idea as a low level paladin :P

[@abbysaito5348]

Power of friendship will heal me lol

[@vespi57]

@@soldierorsomething You're right, and I never do that in low level dungeons. Besides, Paladin gains Clemency at level 58. No self heals before that. And optimally, Paladin should never have to use it.

[@glitchasaur]

As a tank you need to set the pace as you say and be sensible; if a healer can't dps then the tank/dps are the problem. I have played all but 2 classes to 80 and its really obvious.

[@idno4856]

Good video as always. I had a few situations like that when I 1st started SCH. Especially with tanks not understanding the difference between WhM and SCH. When I was 1st starting out (it being my 1st MMO as well) I always thought that it was my fault (and it was partly) until some random person pointed out that no, often it's just tanks not knowing how to use mitigation properly or not being positioned properly or not waiting for people to be ready

[@Aitherea]

There's also something to be said for situational awareness. Maybe the rest of the team IS a little slow or IS a little inexperienced... you've gotta assess the situation and work with what you're given!

[@condi_tv]

Also congrats on 10k ! 🎉

[@brianduncan5282]

I think this is why a lot of people say they hate healing. People can be rude and there’s no reason to be. I once got chewed out when I was a sprout healer.

[@MirandiLuna]

Another thing that sometimes happens when people play on alts is that they underestimate how much the gear sync helps when you go into these earlier fights, so they overestimate how strong they are with their alt's lvl 44 equipment.

[@shadowfox9490]

Right! I was just talking about this with my team (coincidentally ALSO Darkhold) the other day! I was healing WHM on an alt. I've done this dungeon a LOT on main (DPS/HEAL primarily semi new to tanking this game). And There was a PLD that bolted off, and took almost all 6 groups like the story presented in the vid, and our dps *were* with us, mostly, one BLM and well.. gotta let a turret BE a turret. Don't let their turret dreams be dreams! 😂 Anyway, in the end, we melted. I held up pretty well skill wise, but both myself and the tank had baby gear, and mine was almost 10 under mine. And PLD's was almost as bad plus they admitted it was due for repairs. The first thing they said in chat was, "Oof My bad. I'll pull less next time." To which I replied, "It's ok! My gear's fallen behind a bit, sorry about that." I then followed up with, "Let's try it again. If it doesn't work out, we'll do smaller groups." That's when they told me about their gear & agreed. We did a full pull, DPS were ready cuz they actually also read the chat (I love it when players pay attention to chat!! ♥ Even just for a hello.) and we knocked it out of the park. It was at the final boss we started chatting about how it's a very different experience on an alt compared to main. You wouldn't think so, per se, but honestly, the gear you're wearing, it's condition, it's native ilvl (seemingly and only to an extent) makes a huge difference in how much damage you can absorb, parry, dodge, and how much output you have. It's a very stark contrast going from even just 130 Ironworks to lvl 30 green dungeon drops!

[@dcbaez2]

Thanks for this video. I’m a healer main but remember the anxiety around healing when I first chose to switch to it. An experience like this would have absolutely scared me off. Luckily this is not the normal experience but I’ve had toxic people in my parties too

[@Brawneteer]

I've done this pull before. Recently, as a matter of fact. The difference with that was that I'm leveling WAR, and the instant i got to that last corner to block LOS on the ranged adds to force them to come closer and everything caught up, I Holmganged and popped every defensive cd i had after the holmgang wore off. If we ended up dying, then that's on me for assuming my team is ready for that kind of pulling in pre 50 dungeons. Even if we died, there was a good chance that we killed a few of the mobs and that makes the next attempt at the pull easier.

[@Convii]

I had the opposite problem with a toxic healer. I was new to the game three years ago and was doing my roulettes levelling my main class, Paladin. I got Snowcloak as my dungeon and at this point I was semi decent, I was rolling my mitigation, I already knew to use arms length as an additional migitation and would confidently pull at least two mob packs minimum. This White Mage would use rescue to drag me forward against my will and bark orders at me and constantly belittle my skill as a tank just because I wasn't pulling enough even though I was using all of my resources and made the judgement of "If I pull anymore I will melt when all my cooldowns are used up". Thankfully after the second boss we were able to kick them. I got very upset at the time but three years later if the same thing were to happen I wouldn't back down and be passive. I was just a sprout then so its so filthy that some players think they are elite and get to smear toxicity at new players.

[@JeremyS.-ug3sp]

I will go even further and say that anyone using rescue outside of pulling someone out of danger, unless they are playing around with people they know and are friends with, is being a toxic player.

[@simonburton774]

So i want to share a similar thing but instead of toxic tank it was a toxic dps, me and my partner do roulettes together daily, depending on what she's working on will depend what i decide to do as i have all classes at 90 and she's working towards that, i was tank specifically paladin and she was astro, we had a friend we know irl who's also in our fc who was running roulettes with us and he was black mage, we then had a random person who was monk and we got the violet tides dungeon from the stormblood expansion. This happened at the beginning of the dungeon, i was doing small pulls for two reasons, 1. my partner has Healer/Tank anxiety due to thinking she won't be good at these type of classes and due to how some people are at a single thing gone wrong, 2. it was our friend's first time here so we had to explain mechanics and we wanted him to take in the beautiful scenery of the dungeon. the monk had other plans it seems as they decided to rush ahead and come back to the group with all the mobs, i had to take aggro cos naturally if this many went unattended they'd go either for healer or the dps, so i was very unhappy, my friend decided to type for me whilst i was dealing with the enemies basically telling the monk to not pull ahead as pulling enemies is the tank's job, they replied saying "no point doing small pulls and the healer can take care of it" bare in mind she's going based solely on my partner's level and nothing else, i then started typing saying "no, im not pulling more because (same reasons i put further up)" to which they then decided to be condescending towards her being like "aw the level 90 healer has anxiety" (bare in mind my partner only has 2 level 90 healer classes one of which being scholar which levels with summoner) i ended up saying "instead of being condescending how about you decide to be considerate and think of others rather than just yourself" after that they just replied "nah" then left. honestly the attitude was ridiculous just due to us not wanting to rush through like they did and we get this quite a bit it puts her off from doing roulettes at times

[@Randomrenn98]

I'm the healer in this situation and honestly It is still very scary for me to heal in dungeons. When I started healing as a WHM (on an alt at first) I went in Cutters cry and got 3 very rude players who weren't nice at all and it put me off healing for such a long time. I think it absolutely horrible for people to put down other players like that when they are learning and need time to grow and try out the class. For the longest time I stuck with doing Duty support to avoid interacting with people when I was healing but my partner and FC helped me. If I didn't have them in the party I don't think I could go in and Tank/Heal by myself.

[@Luabretas]

I just had a similar experience on this same dungeon today. I play dps and the other dps and healer were sprouts, tank was a 'veteran player'. We died 4 times before even reaching the first boss and when I suggested smaller pulls the tank just said no, the healer needed to learn to swiftcast resurrection. And then during the first boss, tank didn't even know the mechanics, I had to keep telling him to bring the boss to the light. Kept dying again on the way of 2nd boss, tank keeps blaming healer. I just quit the dungeon, could not stand the toxicity and arrogance

[@dixieflatline1189]

I love healing - 15 years ago healers were always respected and everyone said “thank you for healing” at the end of a run. There were always rubbish tanks, some due to learning, some just muppets with bad attitudes. These days, it’s rare to see that level of politeness in MMO’s (although tank situation hasn’t changed :). My attitude to healing has been “healing PUGS makes me a better healer and i enjoy that - dont read chat if it gets toxic”. If it’s really rough, leave.

[@kennyg752]

was not expecting "leave a sacrifice for lord algorithm". gave me a good chuckle. great vid

[@MacTaipan]

He didn't even have a point, because even if you had indeed been inexperienced, it would still have been his fault for not adjusting. You are right, this is the kind of behaviour that makes me play solo as much as possible.

[@fear7037]

Thank you Aitherea for making this video, for calling this people out, i play healer alot its one of my favorite things to do in xiv and i have faced alot of this type of toxicity which made quit healing for sometime but i learned to over come it and i feel much better about it now, tanking on the other hand ive feared it since i got to lvl 80, i was still learning it and i have dealt with alot of impatient and rude players which made me stop playing tank for months and months but i was able to over come this fear with the help of my boyfriend and friends who help me over come my fear of tanking and let me actually learn it, its really sad how new players stop playing a role that they actually like because of this type of players who act as if they know about everything, i really hope new players get to see this video and feel a bit better if something like this as ever happened to them.

[@Lindormking89]

Ive been playing tank on and off since ARR was relevant content and have my fair share of toxic people trying to disparage you for playing poorly, my favorite thing to see is new players trying out and enjoying the game, i also like to be one of the friendly folks who like to encourage other players to try other jobs and just have fun with the game. To this day i still use the trust system and duty support just so i can learn the fight on my own terms. (Yes the ptsd is that great, i was terrible starting off)

[@Momokujo]

When EW was about to come out I decided that I would challenge myself to play healer for every piece of content that came out, MSQ, Exs, Savages you name it. I had some prior healing experience but not too much so I really wanted to push myself to learn. I decided to lvl WHM and AST though the story and had MANY good and bad experiences. But, one that will always stick out to me was during my first run of the lvl 81 dungeon. There is a pull after the first boss that was pretty challenging with one of the mobs hitting pretty hard. I had a DRK and I was on AST at the time. One of our dps had said that they needed a moment so we waited for them, then not even 5 minutes after the tank just popped sprint and went in, I followed after with the other dps in tow. The tank died due to lack of dps and I remember panicking and raising them but they declined it so we all died. I said in chat, the other dps was afk why did you pull? The tank only said just heal more dumbass. I didn't know what to say besides just I'm sorry I'm still trying to get used to healing. The dps quickly defended me and told the tank that it wasn't my fault but his for not waiting to which the tank only retaliated chewing out the dps for being afk. I didn't know that you could kick people at the time so I just waited for the pull again then I got the pop up to kick him and said yes. He was kicked and the two dps were encouraging me telling me how good of a healer I was and that I shouldn't let this experience ruin healing for me. And I'm happy to say that it didn't, I went on to heal the first savage tier and the ex's week one and I appreciate those two dps for picking my spirits back up after that tank.

[@kostanyanya4412]

When I first tried out ff14, the first class I chose was a healer class, I had zero experience with the game, much less any other mmo so I was a noob noob, and ater a few bad experiences playing with party finder teams, I stopped playing all together for a year or two. I only recently started playing again after my sister got into the game, but I'm still scared to do dungeons and such with real people instead of npcs because of this, and I wasn't even a healer this time around. I wish I had a better experience when I first began playing because I'm sure I would enjoyed my time playing a lot more than I did, and would have continued playing the game instead of dropping it altogether.

[@ErdrickLoto86]

I've dealt with this kind of behavior back when I started playing WHM a few years back. It was my first time healing Eden. I was trying keep the party healed however I had that one person balking at me for constantly dying and not keeping the group healed. I got so discouraged and upset and my partner who tanked the trial saw this, barked back at the rude player and told me let's leave, and we did. It took me a while to pick up healing again. From that experience, I've learned I don't need that in my life. If I was in that situation I would quietly just leave and try again later. But that's just me. It's unfortunate people are out their like that. Sorry you had to go thru that.

[@RubelZaman]

That toxicity was on a different level. You are not at fault. That player had some serious issues. There's always 1 who kills the mood for everyone but the majority of players are good people. Keep up the good work.

[@jasonstevenson6986]

It depends on the tank type. I can get away with that pull on a warrior but I wouldn't even try on a dark knight.

[@electroarray6226]

Unfortunately there is always toxic people in large communities. Whether because they had a bad day or are just baby raging. Best thing to do is ignore them and move on... something that not everyone can do, as everyone has different levels of self esteem. I do hope your video can reach out to individuals who have been on the receiving end of this and help them move on from these experiences.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

I would argue that ANYONE has the possibility of being toxic at any given moment. As Joker would say, all it takes is a bad day.

[@Kuhazan]

I have had many of these types of things happen. One time I was the tank and got a join in progress with a healer that thought Esuna was a heal. I did not vote kick or any of that I offered to help because the dungeon in question was The Grand Cosmos and I was just like "the game is just going to get harder let me help you." but they did not want help because "we got through it so it is fine" I carried them through that dungeon and solo killed all of the bosses with the power of Clemency. I just assumed their native language was not supported by the game and they were struggling to get through or something.

[@JamieM5185]

I’m sorry you had that experience. Being a veteran or a sprout nobody deserves that. I am an Xbox Sprout and started with DPS but have recently started a Scholar and it can definitely be stressful! Luckily I haven’t had any negative experiences as of yet and everyone has been so kind and helpful ♥️

[@buwumet]

I'm very glad I haven't seen many toxic people in my ~740h so far. I could probably count them on one hand. Thankfully, the community is extremely polite and nice. I had my doubts when starting healers but very quickly the positivity regarding mistakes and hiccups made me enjoy healing aswell as dps (i was a huge dps main)

[@under-dog5390]

DPS is a prime source of mitigation that often gets completely left out of the conversation. Stuff dying is the single best form of damage reduction.

[@Nslygh1213]

That’s like 4-6 mobs of enemies, including multiple areas where line of site if cut off. The tank basically asked for death on that one.

[@TheBanjur]

Sprout healer here, had a toxic tank rage typing at me mid fight how to do my job (not avoiding aoes while doing so) flamed me for another min after dying before rage quiting. After completing the dungeon with a new tank, I logged out. The good experiences vastly outweigh the bad, but unfortunately it is the bad that get stuck in our heads I think.

[@SilentAdventurerNumber02]

"People pull hard all the time" Yeah no buddy, especially in anything under lvl 50. Tanks and healers lack the tools to do big pulls at that level. And if your healer runs out of MP, then it might also become the tank's fault for needing that much healing to begin with.

[@freepeanut333]

i think most people pull everything wall to wall between bosses, except for this dungeon and Dusk Vigil

[@KitsuneCode]

Well that’s not true 😣 I’ve done every role in these dungeons and all wall to walls. It just takes synergy.

[@nowaynoways584]

This is horribly wrong. Every dungeon is w2w, there are no exceptions.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

@@freepeanut333 Even in Dusk Vigil. It just make the ride more chaotic.

[@xenomorpher5458]

​@@nowaynoways584 give me your character name and server so if I get you as a healer I can just leave and save myself the toxic screeching that follows. There are some dungeons such as Aurem Vale where wall to wall will not only wipe the party but does it consistently without exception.

[@trevorperez8879]

My first toxic experience was when i was still a sprout, i was tanking a stormblood dungeon and i put my stance on, everyone started running to the pull i was doing, which is what i thought. my healer decided to not tell anyone they were afk at the entrance after moving. the dps all stood in aoes and i watched them just drop. they all said in chat "bad tank bad tank" and i then noticed at the top left the healer wasnt anywhere near us the entire time. i then said "sorry i didnt see our healer was with us, why are they at the entrance afk?" the healer then went "um.." then i was kicked from the duty and didnt touch the duty finder or tank unless i was with friends for several months. I got over it eventually but it still sticks with me that people like that are in the game. BE NICE TO PEOPLE THIS IS A VIDEO GAME! dont be a sore loser cuz you wiped one time and start flaming everyone cuz you stood in aoes that dont move.

[@ThornedLily]

I think the game and community are having some growing pains at the moment. Obviously there are always going to be toxic people in any community over a certain size, but I think with all of our new Xbox friends being able to join the community there's a learning curve to the etiquette this game's community has and some of them haven't quite figured it out yet. A friend of mine stepped away from the game for about a year and a half and recently came back and made an alt to re-experience the game and all the changes that have been made since they were originally a sprout, and they've had a really bad time in roulettes and even when queueing into MSQ duties through the duty finder. I like to hope that this is just a temporary issue and the overall helpfulness and kindness will come back to the community soon.

[@Bunstonious]

I think that guy takes to heart the old adage of "If the tank dies its the healers fault, if the healer dies its the tanks fault and if the dps die it's their own fault", while there can be some truth to that there is a lot more nuance and I think that he wasn't a skilled enough player to realise that. I have been playing MMOs for about 17 or 18 years and I can say that sadly this is far too common (and thankfully Final Fantasy XIV has much less of that), and I can definitely relate to what you're saying. Not Final Fantasy but I was picking up a healing Paladin after like a 4 expansion break and when I tried one timewalking dungeon the tank absolutely flamed me for us wiping to the point of me actually not wanting to pick it up again for a good few months or more, and even now I still am hesitant. I had been doing fine for ages, and I am experienced with Paladin healing (Had been doing it since 2006) and yet even I was questioning myself, I can't imagine how new players would feel. When anyone complains that certain roles are limited the first thing I say is: "well, the community did this", because they drive people away from those high stress roles. Special Note: I also don't think the major content creators constantly spouting "healing is braindead" or "Healers should DPS and not heal" really helps the discussion and instead actually makes it toxic, and also makes newer players feel inadequate and not want to pick up the role. We just need to be kind to each other.

[@shouter0086]

I'd like to add one thing here, the "If the tank dies it's [...]" has a second clause: "If we die, it's the healers fault and if it was not the healers fault, it was the tanks fault. But, if it was not the tanks fault, it was the DDs fault, which cannot be, so it was the healers fault".

[@gokkiyoutube]

After listening for 2 minutes (i'll continue!) the toxic tank made some basic mistakes. My take is: * This pull is possible if you're in a premade group on voice chat coordinating, or have a chat before the pull to make sure everyone is on par with it * Due to the lack of coordination (tank just went ahead without asking), the rest of the party couldn't follow due to those crystals * At lower levels, healers and damagers have very few tools to deal with damage on the go, healers especially need to stop and cast a few times, not a lot of oGCDs * The tank can survive the pull while moving because the enemies don't do much damage, once they all catch up the tank will get PUMMELED. Even with cooldowns the healer must be ready at the destination to spam heals while the damagers quickly kill the enemies on the way and at the end before cooldowns run out In essence - tank was a karen, expected behaviour without coordinating. Tank was also dumb for expecting such behaviour from sprouts. If it were me, i would just stop and let the tank die and run back to the start of the pull, maybe the rest of the group would survive half the pull that runs back after tank dies.

[@MaakaSakuranbo]

Eh, just feels the DPS were too scaredy. The single crystal explosion isn't going to kill you. You have Second Wind or stuff. You can often dodge frmo one crystal explosion into the other since they're slightly offset

[@gokkiyoutube]

@@MaakaSakuranbo Sure, but sprouts don't know that. You can't realy do this in a lowlvl dungeon without a premade group of experienced players.

[@richellemckay13]

I thank you so much for this video. Had same experience on my white mage. First dungeon ever in this game. I have not played my mage since, switched to dps.

[@fishythom5910]

i fear this pull so much, as a tank, as a healer, as a dps. however i just learned that there is a debuf that gets applied to the tank here that has to be removed immediately or the tank will die. once i knew to look for it, it wasnt so scary! I have played this game for 10 years and i never knew of this debuf and i was so grateful the tank mentioned it in my last run.

[@Aitherea]

LOL MAYBE THAT WAS IT. But then tell me as much QQ if theres something to esuna just tell me LOL. Aint need the attitude xD I'll have to watch for that next time and see lol.

[@fishythom5910]

yeah they really werent being helpful, i wouldnt have noticed it either if someone haddnt told me!@@Aitherea

[@Hugo-MTX96]

​@@Aitherea yeah jerk angler fishes always apply a physical vuln to the main target in that dungeon, luckily it is esunable

[@xenomorpher5458]

​@Hugo-MTX96 can confirm as a person who started as a healer main and has leveled every class but blue mage through this dungeon. Those little ball mobs do indeed throw a physical vulnerability on the person with the highest aggro.. many a run had resulted me running the mobs around as dps while the healer popped the tank back up.

[@SimonCarl93]

I played Wrath of the Litch King back in the day and when I FINNALY reached max level and ran a dungeon with some mostly kind people I had the misfortune of getting a very self absorbed healer. Who nonstop complained that my damage sucked and he could do better if we just all pitched in for his respec and I had told the group leader that I was recently max leveled and my gear sucked and I told the healer that and he saw my terrible gear score still would not shut up. I took the high road and just ignored him for the last boss but I was very tempted to send some of the last adds before the final boss at him.

[@markup6394]

I had a group once on my alt. I was SCH, too, and the other team mates were all lvl 90 - my fake-sprout was below 50 and I think it was Dzemael, too. And that tank wasnt taking prisoners. He just pulled everything - and I sprinted along with the others. Long story short, I got a lot of head pets, thumbs-ups and three commendations. It was stressful but also fun. But lets not forget: it was an alt, same with your situation, I play for four years now and yes, I have healed harder content. I knew my kit, and the others knew what to do, too. If I had been a real sprout, things would've probably been different, wipes included. However, I also think my team wouldn't have minded and would've slowed down if their sprout-healer couldnt keep up. Wiping isnt the problem, its how we deal with it.

[@catsteabones6668]

Experienced this pull more than once, yes, and it can work out if the tank goes with the group and knows their class. And it can go very very wrong when they don't :') Am levelling scholar on alt as well currently and I had a Paladin that made it feel easy to heal. Then I had a warrior that wiped us and then ran off without the group *again* right after respawning. By now my friends and I only go into duty finder if we are really really bored and in need for entertainment xD

[@stok5445]

I just stumbled across the video and wanted to mention something. When I started FFXIV, I chose to main WHM and I was having a really fun time until I had a dungeon when I finally failed at healing for the first time. I don't remember the dungeon, because it was so long ago but it was likely an ARR dungeon. Two of the people in the party were partied up and they got a bit toxic in the same way this tank did. I genuinely almost quit that day. Not just healing, but FFXIV all together. I'm happy that I didn't because of everything I've done and everyone I've met since then are super special to me. I guess I'm just saying this because if you do get toxic, know that you could possibly give someone a bad enough experience that they quit playing entirely and/or remember it for years. If you don't like someone that you got matched up with in a roulette for whatever reason, just be cordial, finish the roulette, and blacklist them if you really never want to play with them again.

[@shadow_psych7069]

As a tank main, i have thought about doing that W2W pull before but i never have because i understand that at that level healers dont have a whole lot available and most ppl dont always feel like having to bring out savage lvl attention and skill in a random dungeon roulette. Lol You have me very curious to actually try this now tho since you've said that it MIGHT be possible actually as long as the whole party is on the same page. Thanks! Great video. :D

[@jay.c2097]

I have a story to share too! One time I queue’d for Leveling roulette and got Zot but they were about halfway through. I asked as I always do out of curiosity what happened and the healer said something along the lines of “Tank got mad at me for not healing them good enough and left. I’m sorry I’m new to healing.” So maybe I could’ve just pulled a little for the rest of the dungeon and I did. We did one pack at a time until the very last pull which is a big one. I W2W’d it and tanked literally as best as GNB could at that level (which is pretty high but still lacking HoC) and we got through it smoothly. Had to stop afterward and applaud their healing because I know it must be a confidence boost after what the previous tank had told them and they honestly did do an amazing job keeping the team alive. And even in the last boss room they kept their composure and kept the team alive despite that one having a lot of mechanics to dodge. I really hope I helped turn their spirits around after a toxic tank might have turned them off of healing. And I hope they’re still healing because it’s really fun in this game!

[@Mephiidross]

Oh, I remember that pull from back in ARR days. Can you still do the rez strat? 'coz that's what we used to do. Tank grabs everything, no one else touches the mobs, rest of the party runs into the boss room, tank dies in front of it. Mobs reset their aggro, and we just rez 'em and carry on. Might be even more viable now that only bosses give XP.

[@TiztasticallyWicked]

I didn't get a toxic tank per-say, but I got a Tank who was either new and possibly foreign, and for whatever reason on an American server with shoddy at best English, or a complete and utter troll. They went the entirety of Longstop without activating their Tank stance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the game tells you about Tank stance as soon as you get it at level 10, so at level 30 there was no reason for them to not have it on, right? Or at least turn it on when your party is stopping to tell you "turn your Tank stance on please." We only got one response from the Tank the entire time, and it's stuck with me because it's not only hilarious, but I like to say it to my friend to make them cringe because they ran it with me. What this person said was: "me tank crush everything" We figured we were doomed at that point, but we pulled through on the strength of a person I will refer to as Miracle when I tell this story now because that's what that they were. Allowing essentially a three DPS team to run a pre-EW Longstop on the strength of the healer alone. It's the story that got my Tank main friend to start playing the game because a lot of the tanks I was getting back then were either new, subpar, or. trolls, or toxic. It's what made me start learning tank. It was definitely an experience, but not the worst I had. Salute to that healer, wherever they may be.🫡

[@vonkleistman7444]

A good point in the video is the importance of roles in a dungeon. No role is any more or less important than the others. DPS provide the most potent CC in any game by removing enemies altogether. Tanks protect the rest of the team. And healers provide the heals. If any of these pieces are missing, you will find that you have a much more difficult time.

[@LunaNx]

*HUGS* I leveled up as Healer whm my very and It was slow ride for me to learn as WHM . I remember but I wanted to take it slow so it took me about a 8mo to a year to get caught up really to end game at that point which was HW. I had a tank. we were in Hollister switch and idk if this tank had it out for me but I had gotten ingame married about lv 50's and my in game hubby whom I adore was with me and we had gotten into this dungeon ofc it was like my second or third time doing this after the release of shadow bringers I wasn't very confident in attacking mobs yet as whm and not losing my tank I was in (as I was very afraid of not fully healing and trying find ma happy medium in learning to attack mod as I had heard WHM do.) any way.. I was learning to find balance in healing and attacking my hubby was with me as DPs Ninja and he much more experienced in the game then me so I was listen to him to go ahead an attack which was glare and holy which as whm we don't get much in there as skills as it is. but I thought it would be good time to practice I was wrong we got to the part where you go down the long road part and in that the tank got really low in health and I didn't have my gear fully because I was still learning that and hadn't done any of that yet. he turns around mid-pull I and started to holy which in turns stuns the mobs or most. but when I did I guess some didn't get hit, and He ended up dieing. And due to that, He Screamed at me for it. in not so nice words, I got cussed at. ofc my poor in game hubby had only heard the stories that I only got abused in the dungeons and new, I was learning before we got married but never knew how bad I didn't I wasn't the first time I had witnessed it . after his outburst and telling me how to actually heal instead of attacking and that I could just learn healing, I told him I was still learning at the beginning of the run as well but apparently that meant nothing . He went on to con't pull large and died cause I think at the time he wasn't migateing to it. my hubby was stunned the tank then left after that last time of him dieing I was more then embarrassed my nerves were so shot I was shaking in rl from it I could barely keep my had on my kb from it .with tears streaming down my face from all of it . I told my hubby i was sorry he had to witness such horror on my behalf that I need a break and I need log for while and that i need to log for while and I'll be back when I feel better. He was sad upset about that I told him I go threw that a lot but wanted to learn healer was my will to keep going. After I logged I went to my room and cried for about hr. then got my self calmed down after I let my frustration out I told my self i'm not ther for anyone but me and to lean that's what I tend to do so I logged back in to game and at this point hubby was still on. He gave me ingame hug again I told him he had witnessed such a thing but He said not worry about it . that the next time some like that happened and I catch it i'm going tell you to bale asap. He has ever since so I just leave the group when he tells me to leave asap casue He never wants to see me get bullied like that again. but since then after that i made it appoint to level up tanks all of them and learn about what they do so that what if tank tries to do that again I catch them at that time i had not a inklying what I tank did in dungons I wanted the knowledge dos that want I could catch them in the act of knowing what skills they had. since then I havne't ever had that issue. and hubby vouches for me cause he right there with me . He helped me learn tanking as well :) I taught him few things to like healing as we grew. He is a vet of the game I was just learning then. we got married in 19' may 15th and we been married every since were besties in the game now:). but never give up . we are wol's in our selves don't give up we keep getting up an figthing with everything in us. Believe in your self in game my name is pristine Mizuki.

[@trout825]

I love you brought this up. First of all it’s a low level dungeon. What’s the point in this tank being weird about the pull? It’s a damn dungeon. Just be nice and don’t be a dick. That tank will have the life they deserve. Trust me. Good on you for being the better person. You’re amazing and thanks for speaking out on this ❤️ as someone who wants to heal, this is why I don’t. I’m too scared.

[@StrangeILife]

This reminds me of levelling my dark knight back in Stormblood, catching up to level 50 for my friend, who wanted to level samurai with me. Also dzemael, but the dps (I queued alone) ran ahead before I even started pulling and I, as a new tank, had trouble keeping up and getting the aggro back. This went on for the entire dungeon and we managed to clear just fine, but I felt so stressed out during the run, that I didn't want to tank anymore. Fortunately the dark knight story made me continue playing it and also my friend was, from that point on, always in the party, so that I felt more comfortable. I levelled all of the other tanks together with him as well and now I'm even a tank main lol

[@pemuri]

As someone who has been interested in playing tanks lately, I agree with this. Trying to do things for me without letting me do them puts me in serious stress and makes me not want to play tank any more. I'm doing my best to get the aggro back on me and position myself properly but this gets pointlessly tiring. Experienced players can also go ahead and get the aggro cuz they want bigger pulls and finish quickly but you know this still causes the same stress. I'm so glad I'm not the only one experiencing this. ;-;

[@dragonstompp]

players like that just aren't worth the time, good for you standing up for yourself

[@MistressRavenX]

The same thing happened to me. I was trying Blackmag and the tank was trying to give me a teaching lesson

[@Aru_Yisaire]

As a Scholar main I couldn’t even think i could heal this

[@isaactheflaming12345]

Going all the way to the boss during the second part of Dzmael Darkhold is really bold move, even on a good day. Those mobs really hurt.

[@zaynkor2670]

I've never even seen someone attempt it, there's no way the exploding crystals make it easy

[@isaactheflaming12345]

@@zaynkor2670 I've only tried a handful of times, just the first half before the narrow cave alone is usually hard to deal with, what with very gimped and limited movesets

[@zaynkor2670]

@isaactheflaming12345 yeah I'm used to stopping halfway

[@Controvi]

i have been in the same situation, minus the "or get better at healing" part. I went through some early dungeons to help some people and the tank was booking it to the end. I couldn't keep up with him as the dps'ers weren't that experienced either. The dps guys were getting damage that I needed to heal and eventually, the tank died because I couldn't be at 2 places simultaneously. The dps guys started apologizing for being slow and I interrupted them by asking the the tank to slow down. Told him that I might be fast enough but these guys were new. Luckily he replied with something along the lines of "Yeah sorry, I should have noticed. Will take it easier." But the tank in your situation is definitely a case of "tell me you don't know about healing without telling me you don't know about healing" To be honest though, most early dungeons are pretty easy to keep the tank alive, apart from some like the Stone VIgil. But other then that it's not that hard to heal. But that can only happen when all party members are together. Otherwise, you have to choose who to keep alive. And to me, the moment I have to choose who to keep alive due to neglect of the tank, I will focus on the dps. The only way for the tank to learn is to die. Not that I like to make the choice but it did happen once or twice over the course of my 500+ hours of gameplay.

[@rumia3691]

Hey there, new to your channel and a healer main as well. I just have to say, regardless if the healer is new, or is just having to deal with the woes of a being a healer in a very low level dungeon, read the room if you're tanking. If you're running out of mits in a level 40 dungeon, and you're doing wall to wall pulls, or you're just dying through mits while pulling 20 adds, maybe step back and think about whether your healer even has the tools to get you through that kind of pull. Today I ended up getting "The Stone Vigil" in roulettes and only had access to Physis and Diagnosis for healing. You can imagine my dismay when the tank decided to do a wall-to-wall pull all the way INTO the boss room. There's no way Kardia is going to heal through a wall-to-wall pull in that dungeon because that many adds is enough to chew through the tank in seconds, Physis in combination with Eukrasian Diagnosis/Diagnosis is also just not enough to shield/heal through that big of a pull. I told the tank to maybe not pull into the boss room, but even then, the amount of adds still proved way too much. The dps were getting upset and one of them just outright refused to aoe after we'd wiped twice to trying to brute force that kind of pull. If you're a tank, SLOW DOWN SOMETIMES. It's not because WE WANT to slow down, I'm sure a lot of us love to do wall-to-wall pulls, but at least understand when it's just not possible when in certain low level dungeons due to the lack of tools available to us healers. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this, This particular tank really does remind me of my first days healing with an ex-friend who was extremely unforgiving towards me in my starter days as a healer. It makes me sad to think about all the sprouts that have/will turn away from healing or even the game in general due to shitty behavior like this.

[@saluun2334]

I started playing again 3 weeks ago, started leveling a Machinist from 38 to 90 (hit 90 today first time). I ran many dungeons and trials till 80 but I have not had a toxic experience yet and I died quite a lot, people have been very kind and forgiving to each other and to me so far.. however after I finish Endwalker's MSQ I will probably start leveling a healer and a tank for the first time ever in this game so I will probably run into some toxic people. Also I'm sorry this happened to you.. always sucks when you have to deal with toxic people.

[@Aitherea]

Congrats on your first 90! Luckily, toxic players are not the majority. In all my years playing this game I can only remember a few experiences where someone was being a jerk.

[@johnlarken4744]

I've always gone with the standard 2 packs per pull in ARR dungeons. When the game lets you do more in higher level dungeons it's really fun, but as you mentioned we have more tools in those levels. I did find a tank who wanted to pull everything possible in Sastasha once. That was a very long dungeon run because he would not stop doing it. We also had a sprout archer in the party too...

[@alexvoyd1132]

I tank my roulettes 95% of the time. I dont use dps meters and yet I can say if my grp has good or bad dps. Sometimes mobs start dying when rampart is still active,other times I have to use ALL my defences and mobs are still alive! Ofc dps matters!

[@earlyoungjr2320]

Sooner or later abusive asshole tanks will find their name on so many blacklists they won't be able to play with anyone. Also, any tank that feels so obligated to make pulls like that, should probably not be playing a tank to begin with. If you're a tank and do these things, stop, swap and play dps....

[@Norxet]

When I played that dungeon as a sprout DPS I got carried so hard that when I went trying to learn to tank I didn't know any mechanic of the dungeon I abandoned ashamed because someone said I was probably a bot because of how bad I was playing I love the trust system because I can learn the mechanics without embarrassing myself again

[@adrihadenough]

what's the name of this dress pls? i've had a very similar experience when i first started healing as an astro.

[@kuyap9455]

glad it's normal life that my tanks usually just apologize (even if it's my/'healer fault actually XD) and be more thoughtful about how much to pull. fr, not that hard to adjust. actually crazy refreshing that toxicity like this rarely happens. as opposed to when i play league.. where toxicity is the air we breathe (... and where muting is OP) also love the general attitude of trying to assume that your party may be new. really good approach

[@Author_Gamer]

Your story reminds me of a toxic monk I ran into as a healer, the tank was going slow and we were moving at a steady enough pace. Monk did not like us not doing wall to wall pulls and it would not have gone well if we did. I was already having enough troubles keeping the tank alive as is. Afterwards I messaged the tank to apologize for their poor experience even if it wasn’t my fault.

[@madjik1979]

This kind of toxicity is bullhucky. I've been playing MMO's for 20 years now and it was this very attitude, over, and over again, that gave me anxiety about playing in a team. Even here. Even in this very kind and mostly accepting community, I don't want to play in a group because of this selfish and self serving attitude. Point the finger, it's your fault, flip off. You were more patient with this tank then I think I can be thanks to this kind of spittle that he was dropping, and I want you to know, I appreciate it. I wasn't in your group. The community is large enough, I may never group with you (especially because of my proclivity to not group if I can help it); but I still appreciate your kindness here, and more importantly, your willingness to talk about it.

[@Tripsbro]

As a tank I like to use the ramp up technique. Start with 3 mob pulls, then 4, 5, and 6. I try not to pull more than 6. I also will pull less if my defensive are on CD. Only 1 time have I ever had to use my defensive on a 4 mob pull. Usually I pop them at 6 or more. But I remember the healer giving me shit for not constantly using my defensive. So after that I would defensive then after the fight sit down and wait until they came off CD. They started to complain we were going to slow, I told them either you wait for my defensive to pop or you heal better on small pulls.

[@pokegamerxz]

I had at least 2 times where someone was toxic. I was a tank at Stone Vigil, and I was not that good at tanking. I tried doing a big pull since that is what most people i thought do. I didn't know 1 of the dps, and the healer was also a newbie with worse gear than what I'm used to. After wiping twice, I tried asking what can I do to improve. The other dps was told me to pull less, which I did. But after the Dungeon was over, he said l2p before immedeately leaving. The second time was when I was a healer. I'm also bad at healing and told everyone I'm kind of new and would love some feedback or tips. The tank typed something, but I missed it. He then stopped tanking and got angry at me. I scrolled up, and the only thing he asked was, "Do you want some tips?". Afterwards, proceed trash talk me because I don't understand what's the problem. I thought, "Can't you just say the tip and move on? He then said some mean things and left. We cleared easily after a new tank joined.

[@eggsous8858]

I've also had experiences with toxic tanks over my 3 years of playing but one of my favorite ones was regarding filling for a healer who left a DRK in Dead Ends (90 dungeon which at the time was still part of Expert roulette) who refused to mitigate properly + literally in class gear while me, a healer main playing SGE who was more or less casual BiS (high-quality crafted + pentamelded at the time) literally could not heal this guy up at the speed he wanted since bro would also pull mobs while DPS was also catching up (tbf at the time, if you see that Time Elapsed message on any dungeon roul, you should be Ready and wary from the start). I suggested that he should take it slow and literally not pull the entire room until DPS could catch up and went "Bestie, I think you should slow down and wait for the DPS :)" since I wasn't *too* mad (since again, I'm very used to toxic tanks) and i cannot believe that bro's first response was "Do Not Call me Bestie." I apologized for that but DRK over here continued to not mitigate and honestly be very shite at DRK and I was over here struggling to get this guy above 5000 hp since bro was just Not Doing His Job. After a painful 30 minutes, we managed and since I was a little bit salty over this guy since he kept me 30 minutes away from doing rouls with my friends I went "Don't forget to mitigate next time ^^" and he responded with a "F*uk off" before leaving... the two DPS who remained however messaged in chat about how toxic and rude the guy was and cheered me for literally not giving up, which I think made the pain I had to endure or less better. :)

[@daibz]

i love playing tank and being in the mix of things be it war or gnb. pulling wall to wall is fun if the team can handle it being a tank is about knowing the mobs and team how much they can handle from previous pull and adjusting to the next area. if they could keep up as was some panic moments ill pull less on the next area especially if in a random daily with sprouts, with friends ill muck around more and if i die so be it was my own fault for being silly. when im tank and i see the healer or dps say first time ill always go 2 or 3 mobs pull instead of wall to wall as they are here to experience the dungeon for the first time to see the mobs, the scenery, the music, and they dont have any knowledge of what is going to happen next and a dungeon taking an extra 5 mins isnt going to be the end of the world plus i can be more chilled as well and enjoy as they run through for the first time.

[@mariannerichard1321]

That Dzemael run is so thankless, everyone is missing some key spells/skills and it's almost always a mess. ^^; To successfully pull it off, you need: - raid worthy gear - full meld - raid food - the best potion you have access to Then, you want the DPSs to DPS the mobs on the go while you move to the end of the walk. Almost there, you pop Rampart, then Arm's Length, then the second shield, then Reprisal when all the mobs are around you, all the while doing you AOE rotation. When your HP fall below half, you use a potion to help the healer. After all that, you may still die, but there should be little mobs left, the rest of the team should get you all through. For the Dzemael run, I'll usually do a stop before the first crystal, then pass the first corner and pull all the way to the end of the straight line, because line of sight, second stop, then third stop in front of the moon door. It usually keeps everyone alive to the second boss. As for tea... I had a Stone Vigil run between a hot headed tank and an out of their league healer, taking the slack with my summoner between Physick and Resurrection. There were many deaths, but we made it through, somehow. xD The most desperate was a Praetorium run, we tried 5 times, the healer wasn't healing much, everyone was undergeared (myself included, I was leveling an new alt), the DPSs accused the healer to be a bot, as the heal performance was really sub-par, the healer was frustrated and refused to heal both DPSs, it went downhill quick after that, and we all vote abandon. I roulette summoner ever since...

[@Dracounguis]

Your tank was stupid. 🤦 That's a rough patch even if you go slow. The first couple sets with the frogs can kill a party even without Leeroy Jenkins-ing the whole thing. Not to mention that LOS is broken quite frequently. So there will be no healing unless you are right on the tank's ass. Being smart and going slow will get you through there FASTER than a trying to speed run it and wiping multiple times.

[@youtousim]

Wild guess: It was a Gunbreaker

[@AlexanderFrost]

How fast some...actually almost all of the parties I've been in are the reason I play through the MSQ content solo. When I'm in a new dungeon I like taking my time to explore and fight groups of enemies little by little. But most parties just zoom through, do wall to wall pulls, and then I'm stuck just rushing to keep up and not learning anything about the dungeon or it's lore or anything.

[@kite4803]

Depending on the tank you can most certainly self heal your way through it. But the mobs will most definitely melt you at any level if you round up more than 7. 7 is tough! That area has like 14 on the run up to the end.

[@Augrei]

ARR Tanking; Grab 3 Groups and surrounding Sentinels for about ~18 mobs. Too many ARR Dungeons have hazards. It's not worth it. If my PUG Healer has to pop an Ether to keep me alive I have absolutely failed as a tank. With Arms Length and multiple GCDs I can cycle to keep mitigation up for nearly a minute at level 40 ish. They have no excuse.

[@NuchiAsaki]

No healer can out-heal that without the DPS and tank also going maximum sweat. This isn't the kind of pull you should try to do with randoms. The best tanks aren't the ones that wall-to-wall, they are the ones that are predictable. Most groups kill the frogs first and then grab everything else, so that is what this tank should have done. I would have tried to kick them from the party too.

[@faeriekitten]

I can't remember what turned me off from healing, but in general I don't bother bc I KNOW how often healers get blamed when s*it hits the fan I have a bit of an encounter for when I first tried picking up PLD (Paladin) My journey was going great and I was studying tips beforehand bc I definitely struggle with tankxiety/healxiety. Anyway, every dungeon and trial run through MSQ went rather smoothly... until the end of HW when I queued for the Nidhogg fight. Now, mind you, I had the mind and respect to warn others that I was new to tanking, that it was my first time tanking each duty I came across through MSQ. I also did this when I got my queue for the Nidhogg fight. About partway or halfway through, there's some sort of mechanic I never realized previously (apparently) where 1 of the adds is invulnerable. This lead to me not getting the proper aggro, which I can admit is my fault. However, one person in particular in the duty (I think I remember they were a BLM) decided to be rude af about it. They were basically getting snarky and mocking the two of us tanks. It was almost ironic that one of their snarky lines was something to the effect of "Are these tanks new or something? lmfao" considering I did, in fact, mention at the beginning that I was new to tanking and this was my first time tanking Nidhogg. I can't quite remember every single thing they said, but they were basically making fun of us for not knowing the mechanics and messing up. I get that it can be frustrating if you just want a quick in and out of a roulette or something, but there is always a chance you're going to get grouped up with sprouts or players new to the role/duty they're playing and that they might mess up or even cause a wipe. And honestly, all it takes for someone people (like me) is that one bad interaction while they're still trying to learn before they start thinking that they're not cut out for this role or that they might as well just use duty support or GC to run duties so they can avoid these people who want every duty to go 100% smoothly, at a million miles per hour and aren't afraid to be mean when it doesn't. It's fine if people think me or other such people have thin skin and all that, but honestly, I play games to have FUN. Not to get stressed out by people who decide being rude is the best way to whip your healer/tank into performing better. I am NOT against getting tips or being *kindly* told how I could have done something better. But the moment someone gets snarky and overly rude to me, I'm out of there. Because of that instance in Nidhogg, I stopped running PUG duties with PLD. I level it through duty support and GC now because I'm not going to deal with the potential of running into a rude person. In fact, I pretty much only run DPS in PUG duties bc it is the most stress-free in terms of the potential of people getting rude/snarky with you.

[@ManiakGear]

I was tanking in duty finder for my bonus and when the dungeon started I pulled the first two camps cause that's all there was before hitting a wall. We wiped, so fast. So I'm like...ok. I adjust, and just pull one camp. I see the healer still struggling to keep heals up, in his defense we had DPS constantly standing in all the mechanics like it was a tiktok challenge. So throughout the entire dungeon, I pull one camp at a time, slowly inching our way through it. We finally finish and the healer at this time decides to speak his mind and of all the thinks he SHOULD HAVE said, what he ended up saying was, "You need to learn to use your mits." Thank Hydaelyn he bounced immediately, cause I don't like getting pulled into these toxic conversations, but what I NEEDED to tell him was, Son...Every single camp, I am using Rampart, Reprisal, Shadow Wall, and even Dark Mind cause eff it. And I am still keeping my finger hovered over Living Dead cause I'm watching my health CONSTANTLY drop down to 10%. What effing mits are you telling me to use?? I'm using ALL the mits. ALL of them! You're holdin onto your heals like each cast costs 50% of your MP. Actin like my Abyssal Drain is on a 5 second cool down. My guy what MITS are you tellin me to use?? But yeah my bad...I guess I could have been using Arm's Length. So yeah eff me I guess.

[@Viech54]

Oh, I had one of these tanks in Dead Ends. It was a warrior that refused to press their buttons. No self healing, no mitigation until they were almost dead. Only Holmgang when they were about to die. When Holmgang was about to run out, they used Vengeance, but there was still no Bloodwhetting. On the first pull, I had to throw out my entire kit, including Benediction, and they still took way too much damage and almost died several times. Then they proceeded to blame my healing. But not once did they use Bloodwhetting or their defensive cooldowns when they had high HP to actually benefit from the mitigation. That they didn't do mechanics and got really low was obviously also my fault. Back then I was still kind of new at healing. It was my first healer, leveling to 90 is so fast that yes, you can absolutely still be inexperienced at level 90, and I didn't play warrior, so I at the time couldn't tell what the warrior did or didn't do or should have done differently. So I had a hard time defending myself and just said nothing. I recorded it, looked up the warrior's kit, and analyzed everything the warrior did, then I understood it wasn't my fault that they took this much damage, and that I had a hard time keeping up. The one thing is that I could have healed more with my GCDs. I could have spammed Cure II all the time. But that should never be necessary at level 90, especially not when the tank is a warrior or any tank that is not completely incompetent. Now that I have more experience as a healer, I would tell the warrior to press their buttons, Bloodwhetting in particular, then attempt to vote dismiss them asap if they start to argue about it. Like, literally, it is easier to wall to wall heal Dead Ends with trusts/duty support than it was with this tank.

[@AnaHeartbeat]

I had this experience as a healer sprout a few times, to be fair I was inexperienced but these were my first dungeons with AST. I kept on going all the way to EW but after that I was too anxious to really do anything as a healer. I would die or let someone die from inexperience and I also had a really old laptop at the time, I mean like 9- 20fps slow and laggy. I was mostly worried that people would assume that I am griefing the party. I think that at some point you grow a thicker skin but honestly I still feel hesitant to heal in any serious content. Im sick of letting a few bad apples ruin my experience tho because I love healing so Im working on my healxiety.

[@TBANinjaAbe]

i have tanked this a few times and i have learned that this section is 2 pulls, one for the first 2 packs and one for the last 2 packs cause tanks don't have enough mitigation and healers don't have enough options to consistently do a wall to wall especially since most times one or both is newer.

[@kierenm4810]

I've had a very similar experience before. Ages ago during the tail end of Shadowbringers, I was trying to learn scholar in preparation to understand shield healing for when sage came out. I'd leveled summoner, but of course scholar goes with it and I had no idea what it did anymore. I hadn't touched scholar since Stormblood was current and it's changed so much. So okay, time to try again. I read all my tooltips. Watched a guide. I think I've got a hang of it. Try jumping into a leveling roulette and I got Don Mehg. Tank does the big pull, doesn't interrupt the Fuath and doesn't mitigate. We of course, wipe. Like you, I've healed extreme and savage very comfortably. That doesn't help me being new to scholar and not being able to out heal that mess. We try the pull, again, tank changes nothing about what they're doing. I still cannot out heal the damage that the buffed up enemy is doing and we wipe again. It's a mess. I feel awful. The tank pops off at me. Tells me I'm the worst healer he's ever seen. That I should never heal again and uninstall. Absolute BS. I can't remember if I left the dungeon or ended up finishing it. But I do remember going to talk to my static very upset after that. Main tank from static (who wasn't on yet when I went to run leveling roulette) takes me through Don Mehg. We do the big pull. His health gets a little low as I'm still rusty with the scholar kit, but it goes... fine. Cause he mitigated and interrupted the Fuath. Tells me not to worry about my skill as a healer and I continue to learn scholar. Without the tank from my static running me through Don Mehg again, I would probably never touch scholar again and just stuck with white mage. I'm lucky to have had the confidence and support of friends to not have dropped healing altogether in the game after an experience like that. But I could see someone doing that if they think this is how people are going to act towards them at high levels.

[@contronka3604]

It’s as JoCat put it. There is a sliver that says ‘Tank Bad’ in his crap guide to tanking. This is an example of that.

[@Nagoshichao]

I've been playing since about 2017 and i think my first ever toxic experience was in The Burn when i was a new healer/player. up to that point everyone was pretty nice and with me mentioning i was new people were very accommodating and it was wonderful... until that dungeon. They all sprinted whenever they could and pulled everything and it was incredibly stressful as a new player. on the final pull before the boss the tank blamed me for a wipe because he ran around a corner and i stopped to not get hit by an AoE. it was humiliating because the 2 dps piled on me. I run savage content now (this past tier was my first) and it was always my goal to learn how to play well enough to do high end content but i always remember that experience and find it sad that so many people are essentially toxic because they are impatient. these days i have no trouble doing wall to wall and whatnot but i always take my time when theres clearly a new player. i dont like the idea of someone having that same kind of experience and its pretty frustrating when others ignore that kind of thing. it actually reminds me that yesterday i have an entirely new friend who started playing because of the Xbox version and he has been learning the game as an entirely new tank. unfortunately his first experience in a dungeon was a bard who kept running ahead of him while he was trying to learn and pulling extra mobs. While there's certainly a discussion to be had about when its ok for DPS to pull mobs to the Tank, I'd argue that when youre in sastasha of all dungeons and the tank is a BASE CLASS, you ought to let the player learn. Not that the mobs are anything tough to deal with but the person pulling was clearly NOT new and they werent even pulling mobs to my friend. just running off and expecting that i would heal them when the tank was nowhere near him. its okay to go slightly slower to let a new player get accustomed. max level dungeon in expert? yeah go ahead, get that shit done. but honestly, let the new players have their proper experience. run it with friends if you dont want to deal with new players going slower

[@freepeanut333]

one of the few interesting dungeons in the game for sure

[@rurigokou433]

Yes this pull is 110% doable if everybody is pushing their buttons and sticking together. Healer has limited resources and tank cooldowns don't last forever. Sounds like the "inexperienced" one was the tank. And if they are "experienced" they definitely lack critical thinking skills or have never played a low level healer before. Anyone who has any real experience in this game doesn't act this way.