What If Charlemagne Married Irene of Athens? | Alternate History

[@MonsieurDean]

We have new videos every Wednesday at 2:30pm EST. Don't miss them, and please like & share the video if you enjoyed it! Donate to us on Patreon: Become a channel sponsor: kzbin.info/door/QR_kmeb0lBEk1Zj_9LWDHAjoin Buy official shirts: modernmediamerch.com/search?q=monsieur+z Join our "Discord Server": www.usofz.com/forum Follow us on Bitchute: www.bitchute.com/channel/YjZETEAFUoIy/ Pick up a copy of our novel: www.amazon.com/Am-Uncle-Sam-Dean-Mosley-ebook/dp/B07WNG95QH

[@axelbruce2685]

Can you make a video of how indiana could be independent or what if indiana kept it land after indiana become a state

[@bosniencommie1202]

Make what if bicentins fell insted of western roman empire

[@alphagamer9505]

The Bizantines aren't a direct continuation of the roman empire,IT IS THE ROMAM EMPIRE,very different,it was the called the roman empire until it collapse in 1453

[@atlasfrog5730]

When is the contest video coming out?

[@alphagamer9505]

Can you do what if the eastern part of the roman empire fell instead of the western

[@restitutororbis1216]

"Oh yeah it's all coming together"

[@ostland_staat2356]

Ave Aurelian

[@riccardolaghi6680]

Username fits

[@pajeirussaurio1405]

Give us aurelian!

[@SolarpunkEnjoyer]

Aurelian, watch out!

[@juliuscaesar8513]

Ave Aurelian

[@VologdaMapping]

This turned out well, pleasure working with you!

[@alfredpeasant5980]

New sub earned. Good work

[@thespanishinquisition8617]

“Restoring the title of highest priest to the Emperor” Me *flipping desperately through the catechism*

[@wolfsden6479]

Lmfao, yea IDK how someone whould think that the theology whould allow this.

[@C4shaRaM4]

yeah that really wouldnt work

[@greatdays7050]

Lel

[@Nimai_Aquino]

He made a really poor evaluation of the theology climate in this scenario. The church was the guardian of all the public stuff like health, education and science during that time. Not to mention the most important role, much more valued back them, of the religious guidance. Unlikely an emperor would do that, and if he did, we would surely fail. The state couldn’t afford to lose the church.

[@dewd9327]

Historically the Byzantine Emperor was the highest priest (Pontifex Maximus) the first 7 ecumenical councils were all called by Byzantine Emperors and they were, alongside the Patriarchs, the Leaders of the Church

[@bigbo1764]

I like how Portugal is just left alone for no apparent reason

[@ZinvictanGamer]

for later integration to get the colonies :v

[@brunoacostasilva]

@@ZinvictanGamer As Brazilian, I approve such idea. Based Roman Empire.

[@brunoacostasilva]

@@magyar9479 Sim. Sic, Ita vero.

[@12345Granada]

Jojo part VIII: Portugal is Unbreakable

[@warcriminalgaming2359]

*they never got Portugal*

[@LedosKell]

The fire of Rome endures.

[@dangersnail5839]

@@stevenandersen6989 what?

[@Emanon...]

Corruption? Yes.

[@takashi.mizuiro]

ye

[@RedFlare2]

Nope. Christians literally extinguished it. Cause it was heresy

[@Kanenas215]

@@stevenandersen6989I have no emperor I am the senate

[@JoaoPedro-gc8mw]

Rome-Constantinople reconquers all of Western Europe. Whispers: They never got Portugal

[@ScapularSaves]

The Most Faithful Majesty will be the Grand Master of the Order of Christ branch of the Knight Templar and act as a Foederati and in service the Pontifical State's interests, however the Patriarchate of Lisbon will give Portugal a special status answering directly to the Bishop of Rome. Portugal would be immensely rich with trade and navigation prowess, but being a great friend of Rome unlike Carthage will enjoy peace and tranquility. Essentially he would be enjoying the Roman State by proxy and supreme benefits.

[@Sovietube]

what if monsieur Z *wasn't* cody from alternate history hub in disguise?

[@Liphted]

I'm so happy I'm not the only one that knows this!!!

[@pajeirussaurio1405]

Wait, is it actually him?

[@ghostlobster2365]

@@pajeirussaurio1405 Very unlikely, Cody is super centrist in politics if you pay attention, while monsier Z is pretty right wing. Unless Cody is playing some weird long game, they're two different people.

[@legchairhistorian5496]

U what

[@legchairhistorian5496]

Mr Z is Dean Mosley you twat

[@queenelizabeth3654]

Now this truly is the greatest timeline

[@lliamreusser4534]

I concur your Majesty

[@sauronmordor7494]

@@lliamreusser4534 Usurpatrice Allemande de la vrai branche celle de Stuart

[@Correctly_Cory]

Hey where are those native kids you stole?! I want 20million dollars or i will take your family like you stole my cousins!!!

[@minnesotanfreedomist3147]

@@Correctly_Cory Hey don’t you know! The queen is allowed to just take any child she wants! (No seriously)

[@Berserker3624]

@@Correctly_Cory quite savage

[@wolfm33]

I like your optimistic outlook and i must admit it's an intriguing alternate history scenario but unfortunately i believe it would have been impossible to occur. Even if the marriage happened it would have been doomed since Eirene as you said in the video was most likely too old to father children so after her or Charlemagne's death the union would have been dissolved. The Byzantines would never (and i do mean NEVER) accept a western barbarian as an emperor no matter how charismatic or gifted he was- and we know that Louis the Pious wasn't that charismatic. Even if the union did happen after both Eirene and Charlemagne died every ambitious byzantine general would rebel and use the fact that the new emperor was a German who hardly spoke Greek to usurp the throne. Louis would have been powerless to stop a rebellion in Anatolia and the two empires would split up again.

[@spencergauta8160]

Why wouldn’t they accept a western barbarian? Barbarians had sat on the Byzantine throne before. Look at Emperor Zeno for example. Why wouldn’t they accept Charlemagne or Louis the Pious as a ruler other than for certain Byzantine politicians having their own ambitions to take the throne?

[@wolfm33]

Because the byzantine aristocracy and even the simple byzantine people at the time considered all western europeans to be barbarians and would never accept them as Emperors. It doesn't matter that the Carolingians were powerful and strong. They were descendants of barbarians and that was enough to disqualify them. As for byzantine emperors like Zeno and many others like him, they were tolerated because they came from provincial areas but still inside the byzantine borders which was considered tolerable (certainly not preferred but tolerable)- the west was another matter. Finally although it was still quite early the schism between east and west ( both religious and cultural) was already taking shape and the sad truth was that there was a slow but steadily building mistrust and dislike between the two sides. And, lets not forget that Basil II was the first emperor that gave his trueborn sister to a barbarian ruler (Kievan Rus king) and this unprecedented offer was accompanied with some heavy stipulations (Rus had to become orthodox christians). This happened in the late 10th century, almost two whole centuries later than Eirene's time.

[@Icetea-2000]

Though rebellions could’ve been easier put down as they weren’t general civil uprisings but the armies of other nobles. Doesn’t make it totally easy but it’s different from something similar happening after the 18th century

[@MonsieurDean]

Check out the second part to this video over on Vologda Mapping's Channel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHWUYYqDr9OcpLs

[@massimotrento3498]

What if Luxembourg never lost Bohemia and the rest of their Western European land, and became a powerful country that still stood today? What if Germany reunited without Prussia, and Prussia still stood as a separate, powerful country that still stood today?

[@holdenmiller8316]

Can you pin this comment

[@wrxtt]

Pin

[@robertalaverdov8147]

Having read up on Empress Irene I'm not so sure it would have been in Charlemagne's best interest to marry her. If he valued being alive and all! She might have poisoned him or plotted against him thus causing a ripple where both empires fell into decline.

[@tylerellis9097]

When everyone ignores she was past childbearing age

[@usuariosarcastico512]

Even if the real world Rome still has a lot of power, if you are paying attention to an certain satelite, imagine how powerful they would be in this alternative history...

[@enrixosjjdjd187]

The eternal merchant is not roman

[@Nassamest]

Finally the fun loving alternative history channel covered this topic

[@eric.7311]

fake Rome marrying greek Rome. Weird.

[@rickyyacine4818]

Its the best we got 😢😢😢😢

[@gamera5160]

Do you want fake history Rome or not?

[@ovs8691]

Europe's greatest Achilles heel has always been a divided Church

[@Kenfren]

That was it's greatest strength, as it allowed more internal competition

[@rohiths3554]

The european peoples greatest Achilles heel was the church itself

[@Perririri]

And Ireland

[@Hussar-bt8sv]

@@rohiths3554 church was a unifier many tiems

[@vargvikernes8357]

The balkans:

[@YiannissB.]

The moment Irene accepted the marriage proposal, her nobles and generals would strike against her. The hate towards the usurpers of the west and the feeling of disgrace was too great. It’s tempting to thing if Charlemagne would choose to invade the Byzantines in reaction to the arrest or murder of his bride to be.

[@adamelghalmi9771]

i feel as though that would just weaken both sides enough for the caliphate to finish off the byzantines, and maybe even cross into europe

[@Tmessy_09]

You did this scenario way better than I good job as always Mr. Z (this is Tyler the guy who submitted the similar HRE alternate history on your site)

[@biggybrolunch3809]

History shows us that a geopolitical entity as large and complex as the Roman Empire is inherently unstable. Even if the union was successful in reuniting the Empire for a time, I suspect there would be a lot more fracturing. In the best case, the Empire might repeatedly fracture and reunite over the centuries, much in the way of imperial China.

[@huntclanhunt9697]

The US is massive yet has the record for the longest lasting Constitution, with only one civil war in its history.

[@biggybrolunch3809]

@@huntclanhunt9697 so far so far...

[@huntclanhunt9697]

@@biggybrolunch3809 Still. It shows with a good biblical basis, even a huge nation can be stable.

[@biggybrolunch3809]

@@huntclanhunt9697 The stability of the United States has very little to do with its Christian traditions; there are MANY failed states with similar origins. Rather, I offer three key factors for you to consider: 1) The States were initially able to expand rapidly through the rich, sparsely populated lands of the native population, as well as through wars and territorial purchases from Christian colonial rivals to Great Britain. This curbed or outright crushed cultural and religious sources of disunity. 2) The States have no rival neighbours. Rome and Francia had enemies on all sides. The only major neighbours of the States are Canada and Mexico, both peaceful trading partners who, again, have similar Christian origins. Canada has a tenth the population, and Mexico has a tenth the economic power; neither has been in a position to rival the United States for the last two centuries. 3) Stability is not the same as unity. Each individual state has a high degree of functional autonomy, meaning the states are free to wildly disagree with each other on key issues. The United States constitution and its governing bodies were designed precisely to place these checks and balances on power, and this has so far protected the United States admirably against internal factionalism. The obvious exception is the American Civil War, where coalitions of states banded together in common cause. Bottom line: The US is a stable state because it is a stagnant one. External threats like Russia and China are so far from home that they are at most times not real threats at all. If the Union fractures, it will likely be because either your Crats or GOP gain too much power at both state and federal levels, rendering the Union completely pointless. Any individual states that object to that power imbalance will secede, and some may band together to create an opposing "United States". Two Romes. Two Unions.

[@lucasbrant9856]

The russian empire was quite big and lasted for a long time. Even China eventually patches itself back together. It was only rome that failed to be reborn from the ashes.

[@aliveyetundead]

Normal girls with a time machine: "I gonna meet my grandmother". Me: Charles, this is Irene. Irene, this is Charles. You guys love each other! Now fuck.

[@alfredpeasant5980]

Right as I was looking for a mind puzzle distraction. Thanks Mr Z. Right when I needed you!

[@HarJBeRw]

6:30 "Aachen" in French is Aix-la-Chapelle not "Ah-Shan" ^^

[@losisansgaming2628]

I was about to say that. Thanks eu4

[@zeno24f57]

I think it's nearly impossible that a standing army would be restored and that Louis would restore the title of pontifecx maximus

[@juliuscaesar8513]

In our time there was a lot of tension between the Holy Roman Emperor and the Pope over who had seniority it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch for a much mor powerful Emperor in the west to become senior to the pope.

[@kolerick]

well, the standing army, even if limited in number, was restored by the late Merovingian under their mayor of the palace, who made great use of them in the many war of succession (thanks the salic law...)... but that also trained them to wage war at a level that wasn't know since the height of the Roman empire and permitted them to defeat the Arab incursion in Frankish territories and push them back from the south of France latter on. basically, the problems of the salic law made it certain that the Franks had a good standing army and... that no Frankish empire would survive the death of the previous ruler... trial by war, survival of the fittest and all that...

[@basedlad3444]

The Romanian principalities would be a part of the empire for sure, not just vassals

[@alinalexandru2466]

I can definitely see that. Especially since the empire would've wanted the gold of the Carpathians again + the fairly good cities there. Though as shown in the video I can see them loosing the area 2 times but reconquering it eventually, once with the invasion of the Magyars and once with the invasion of the Mongols.

[@alinalexandru2466]

@@deathsquad8891 True. One empire controlling the area instead of becoming a no man's land between 3 empires.

[@Faerandur]

It'd be likely that the aromanians, megleno-romanians and vlachs and moldavians would just still be the same people and be the majority in IRL Serbia, Bosnia and northern Bulgaria. Slavs would be a minority in the lands of the roman balkans and a majority in transdanubian lands. Albanians would still speak albanian, but would be a bit more assimilated into the roman way, maybe dual language speakers, with latin or a romanian or dalmatian dialect. Dalmatian language would either still exist or the dalmatians would just speak the reunified modern latin.

[@Perririri]

*ERDÉLY MINDEN MAGYAR!!* 🇭🇺🇭🇺🇭🇺🇭🇺🇭🇺

[@td9250]

@@Perririri get your medications. Hungary will be annexed by 2030 🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹

[@Shusiareed]

Scenarios for future Videos: - What if Frederick the Great and Maria Theresia married (maybe with the extra that these two had also a son who inheritated prussia and austria and Title of holy roman emperor)? - What if Germany was unified with prussias greater german solution? - What if Prussia splitted up Austria after the German war and annexed all Habsburg lands into the new german empire? - What if germany backstabed Austria hungary with their war with serbia? - What if the 30 years war never happend? - What if America/the USA became a Monarchie, under Fredericks brothers, after their independence? - What if the Confederacy took over the whole USA and implemented slavery in the north? - What if Germany became communist after ww1? - What if the Qing Empire never fall/never was pushed around by the european powers (Opium wars n stuff)/never lost territory to russia, japan and the europeans - What if Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemberg and Switzerland became Part of the german empire (maybe a Greater German Empire Version with Austria, Bohemia, South Tyrol, Slovenia and Istria+ Switzerland and the Low-Countries)? - What if germany formed earlier like france and britain, maybe due a sucessfull Roman conquest of germania or out of east frankia? - What if Maria Theresias father had a son? - What if the spanish Habsburg never died out? -What if the HRE was able to hold nothern Italy? - What if Catholic christianity never gain influence and was replaced by Orthodox christianity? - What if the jews instead of the Christians became dominant in europe? - What if the US colonized the whole american continent (North and South) - What if Germany kept their Alliance with Russia? - What if an German royal House was on the Russian throne (Like in Britain) - What if Russia was able to colonize further into North America and was able to develope the Region? - What if Luxemburg didn't lost Bohemia? - What if imperial china never fell/ was able to colonize and westernize (Qing on it's largest extent) and so werr able to rival europa and japan/was able to hold them out of their sphere and never lost any territory at all, maybe where also able to grow - What if the Dual Empire between France and Germany happened? Thats a short scenario i saw on reddit. The scenario is like this: A french phyrrhic victory in the battle of Leipzig lead to a Hohenzoller-Bonaparte Alliance. - What if the catholics won the 30 years war?

[@ラインライン-y2u]

Can you explain the Hohenzoller-Bonapate timeline also really like the greater German idea that's the one where the lands of both autro-hungary and Prussia United?The idea of China being a powerful competitive state is also really interesting

[@Shusiareed]

@@ラインライン-y2u I just saw it on reddit, i would post a link but links are blacklisted ^^ Just google "The dual Empire alternate history" and you can find a picture of a unified german-france empire including the Benelux, Catalonia and piedmont. It's on reddit ^^

[@ラインライン-y2u]

@@Shusiareed thanks

[@Shusiareed]

@@ラインライン-y2u np ^^

[@pomponion6977]

What if the Vladimir the Great of Russia had chosen Islam over Christianity

[@JoaoPedro-gc8mw]

Monsieur Z: "[...]France, Spain, and England [...]" Portugal: Am I a joke to you!?

[@humzahahmad2818]

The Muslims in the Middle East/North African provinces would break out into rebellion at some point

[@thorpeaaron1110]

True

[@James-sk4db]

At this point they had only been Muslims for a generation or so. The majority were either non Muslim or only recently converted. In fact Egypt was majority Christian until the renaissance.

[@HarJBeRw]

Yea, what James said, the process of conversion of the Christian populations in North Africa at that point was not nearly close to complete, large portions of the population were still Christian, in many areas still the majority. It's likely a muslim uprising would have been viewed as a foreign plot/interference orchestrated by the caliphate to retake "rightfully roman" land

[@Enyavar1]

@@HarJBeRw still, this video was waaay to casually having a reconquest and complete pacification of Hispania, North Africa and Syria. Also, no real danger from the Germans, Polish, Kievans, Avars, Magyars, and Seljuks, even before the Mongols arrive. I could understand a short-term unification, and then a long drawn out merging of very different identities into a new Empire, but this sudden surge of military success is unlikely. Together with the sudden anachronistic introduction of "strong central government" and "single-heir inheritance", this whole idea turns into a wishful powerwank about a restored Rome. Imperial Rome has already for a long time been dependent on the Imperators (often several at any time) constantly overseeing the military and securing areas: it hadn't been a single uniform political entity before, and it had fractured naturally into smaller kingdoms because of tribalist issues within its borders. tl;dr: This "restored Rome" of the video is more and more ludicrous as time marches on in the right upper corner.

[@HarJBeRw]

@@Enyavar1 Oh, don't mistake my comment for a endorsement of this scenario's realism, I entirely doubt events would have occured such as presented here had Charlemagne and Irene actually married. I just pointed out that in a scenario where a reunited roman empire was rebuilt through overwhelmign military force, it's not the muslim character of North Africa that would cause it to secede as that character was far from predominant in the region at that point

[@algernonilfracombe]

The Third Rome has arrived at last! Bask in its magnificence! Ave Charlemagne!

[@Crusader-tg1wx]

*Russia has entered the chat* “Third Rome, you say?”

[@somethingclever1718]

I think you mean A V E C A R O L V S M A G N V S

[@VitorEmanuelOliver]

It's a very optimistic scenario, we just have to assume that a couple of really delicate matters are going to work in favor of the unity of the empire. Anyway, will it have a second part?

[@cgyoboi]

Ight so basically it's when your parents had a divorce when you were a kid but when your an adult they get back together?

[@windynate1826]

Whatifalthist: so uh Italy unites and everything falls apart. Monsieur Z: ROME RISES AGAIN AlternateHistoryHub: They get married. They have kids. Shit happens, idk what tho cant go more than 50 years in the future lmfao

[@RandomYT05_01]

BTW, this is a scenario that I have been looking forward to for a long time. Thank you and God bless your soul.

[@NoQuestionsAskedd]

Both were too BASED They were like Askeladd The Unbelievers can cope hard calling them Evil

[@CommanderToad307]

dude your videos just keep getting higher quality and it's awesome keep up the good work been watching you since 2019

[@MonsieurDean]

Thanks pally!

[@Numba003]

The western dream of Rome continues on lol. A fun video on a scenario I’ve wanted to see for a while. Thank you. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊

[@Nikolas573]

2:36 is Irene of Hungary, not Athens.

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

Noticed that immediately

[@pparisps5141]

No, she is Irene of Athens

[@seventh-hydra]

​@@pparisps5141 That picture specifically is not of Irene of Athens, but of Irene of Hungary. The topic of the video is still Irene of Athens.

[@user-wy1yb7zj1j]

@@pparisps5141 mosaic is someone else named Irene.Not Irene of Athens

[@HighPeakMapping]

Amazing concept. Amazing video! Well done m8 you should be proud of this! Truly unique.

[@sirwence9949]

Great video on a topic I always enjoy seeing discussed. Thank you

[@melfice999]

What if Finland won the Heimosodat / Kindred Nations Wars doing the 1918s and managed to form Greater Finland, or atleast had partial success. Perhaps even managing to take Petersburg as Mannerheim so desired.

[@ivokantarski6220]

5 people live there even today. Nothing could work for them. Sorry. Not even a Russian. Just understanding it.

[@이동연-c6d]

You are back with the Alternate History video!!!! XD

[@mario0289]

What if Italy united during Renaissance or Late Middle Ages?

[@gauntlettcf5669]

More like: what if Charlemaign didn't destroy the unified Longbards in Italy? Because, thanks to them, Italy was already becoming a united kingdom

[@baconator2427]

Can you do an alternate Portuguese empire where they may, (like Britain), goes into a colonial frenzy after the loss of Brazil

[@MiraBene]

Close enough, French pronounciation is actually "Aix-la-Chappelle" :-D or "Aa-rrh-en" in Western German / Limburger Dutch. Super video, once again! Thanks Mr. Z!

[@issintf925]

YES! I WAS WAITING FOR THIS

[@baume7798]

Have you consideres making a video about Otto III? He does essentially is all of this, with the only factor curbing his ambition being dying young. If he lives longer and sired a successor with his bride Zoe, histroy could potentially go a similar course as proposed here, just that it'd be later, and that the Roman Imperial Union would have Poland, Hungary and Bohemia as junior partners. Mind you that Otto III reigned before the schism, meaning that his efforts could potentially avoid it, or alternatively alter it, with German, Italy, Poland, Bohemia and Hungary choosing the orthodoxe faith, moving the border between post-schism Christianity further west.

[@weirdosonboats]

Awesome video PLEASE DO A PART 2. I know it gets hard to predict what would happen but it still would be cool to see this new Rome colonize space

[@MonsieurDean]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHWUYYqDr9OcpLs

[@weirdosonboats]

@@MonsieurDean thank you buddy

[@mariolis]

Before I watch prediction: Almost nothing changes The HRE & Byzantium had far too different cultures , different languages , different laws and customs , also the whole catholicism vs orthodoxy... They could be unuted for a few decades until they split again and go their separate ways The only thing i could see changing is that perhaps the two might have warmer diplomatic relations than before

[@Popepaladin]

Nah, they'll just become a fully united Roman Empire for a thousand years.

[@violentnexus3563]

Roman empire also had far too different cultures, language,etc. Yet look how long they lasted.

[@umurtagh0083]

The new map was very good, Another great video.

[@andremanzaro]

Why would Portugal exist? Portugal's existence happened bc of two major factors, the Anglo-Portuguese Alliance and the Reconquista.

[@hmshood9212]

14:40 this seems awfully familiar……

[@markoscream8466]

What a great video! Alternate Medieval History is something I have never seen before! Hey Mister Dean, when are the results coming for the competition of a short alternate scenario? Also, had my first final exam today from a subject called Contemprorary Political History! Got 3 questions: ¤ Britain during the Interwar period ¤ Middle Eastern wars during the 60's ¤ Britain under Margaret Thatcher I think I'm sincerely going to start hating the British. I got a 7, and I almost had a mental breakdown.

[@MonsieurDean]

The alternate scenario contests will probably be coming out some time in February. Also, a 7 out of what?

[@markoscream8466]

@@MonsieurDean Delightful. Well by our system, the maximum you can get is a 10, the marks go fro. 6-10. Everyone is telling me that I should just be happy that I was able to pass, but personally I am very disappointed. It would've been okay if I got it from some other subject, but not History, which is my home, my love. The one where I spent the last 4 and a half years studying it's borders, many interesting leaders like Pu Yi, Baron Ungern... You know mister Dean, it was YOU who thaught me who Baron Ungern was! And then it was me who asked the professor if he had ever heard about him, the reincarnation of Ghenghis Khan as Mongols treat him, and he said no, excused himself for not knowing (which I found to be very sweet) and said that sometime once this pandemic is over, he'll be able to talk to the students about that or any other subject of interest. So thank you legend, for being one of the many factors who sharpened/is sharpening my knowledge about History. Next fucking time, hope I get China, Japan (during the Interwar period, where I could talk about Ishiwara Kanyi, Tanaka Gishi, Ma Ki, Ma Bufang and others) or Korea (Korean War) Also here's something that's gonna make you laugh: one of our colleagues said his friend got the Korean War, and once she had been naming the leaders of North and South Korea, she said everything fine, Kim Il Sung for the North, and... Kim *SECOND* for South! The professor just said: "What" "Yeah yeah, Kim Second, the leader of South Korea during the American administration!"

[@AmariFukui]

While the scenario for obvious reasons is a stretch, the thing i find interesting is that Charlemagne pushed the borders up to the elbe, augustus ideal borders. Creating a shorter frontier with outside invaders. This one advantage, while perhaps not enough to save this union, is certainly something the old rome did not have

[@thorpeaaron1110]

What if the United States annexed Cuba after the Spanish-American War?

[@Dave_Sisson]

Well 20th century Cuba was a "client state" of the United States until the locals got so tired of their wealth being stripped from them by Americans and local oligarchs that they were prepared to back Castro's revolutionaries. I don't think things would have been very different if Cuba became a formal American colony rather than the informal one that it was.

[@MrSqurk]

The only alternative history I prefer to think about is the “6th Good Emperor”

[@Tijaxtolan]

What if Justinian did fully recovered old Rome?

[@adamhenrywalker]

Actually the plan was to marry Charlemagne’s daughter to Irene’s son

[@KamiTenchi]

Then I would become Greek.

[@rokball4892]

What if Bulgaria won the Second Balkans War?

[@scottishbananaclan]

Serbia go *yeet*

[@TheHunterOfYharnam]

You would have to change a lot more things for that to happen. Bulgaria couldn't beat Greece and Serbia let alone 4 countries on its own.

[@JagmasterGeneral12374]

@@TheHunterOfYharnam a way for it to happen is if bulgaria offered romania the land they wanted if they helped in the war or for them to stay neutral

[@TheHunterOfYharnam]

@@JagmasterGeneral12374 Still to win the ottomans shouldn't get involved either. Then it would be 50-50

[@JagmasterGeneral12374]

@@TheHunterOfYharnam the ottomans got involved cause they thought it was a easy fight if it's not they might just stay natural

[@monarchblue4280]

This is a good scenario but make a scenario of what if the Eastern Roman Empire survived. I know you made one of the "Byzantines" with Anatolia and Greece but I'm talking about an east Rome with the levant, egypt and north Africa as well as illyria. Perhaps if Emperor Maurice was not murdered by Phocas and war with Persia never resumed. He was a great soldier emperor, was preserving the economy, was quite competent, made peace with the persians and was uniting and strengthening the empire. He wouldn't keep useless territory like spain and some parts of Italy and was careful. If he hadn't been killed, the eastern roman empire would have been in a much better state, the Justinian Dynasty wouldn't have ended and the throne would be passed to his son (who I think had some experience with governing) averting any succession crisis. This means that the Roman's would probably be in a great condition to not get defeated at yarmouk perhaps. What do you think could happen next? Is this scenario a bit far fetched?

[@minoutarromantic5805]

Hey, would please help trying to make byzantium reach pop culture?

[@tylerellis9097]

How is this good? It’s pure fantasy and not even plausible.

[@monarchblue4280]

@@tylerellis9097 That's why it's good. Whatifalthist already gave us the realistic scenario, so this one is fictitious and insane.

[@heroicdog2824]

Boring scenario: nothing happens. Mr.Z:

[@titianii1447]

This is a much better version than whatifalthist’s video of the same scenario

[@TheRentown]

2:37 I think that is a painting of Irene of Hungary, not Irene of Athens.

[@TaeSunWoo]

(Hits the imperatrix Irene griddy)

[@dylanthomas7918]

A good one would be what if Julian the apostate survived

[@greekkaiser639]

What if league of the three emperors didn't dessolved

[@mr-mr-101]

The one thing I don't get is how the roman legion-system gets rebuilt and everything goes along well enough for Rome 2: Frankish Bogaloo

[@facundomagarinoss3401]

Nice video bro

[@gg9380]

Girl's shipping fanfiction: omg, [character name] is just made for [character name], they should be together and get married. Boy's shipping fanfiction:

[@A.G.798]

Ihr habt den Fliegenschiß von Portugal Vergessen.

[@ostland_staat2356]

Emperor Aurelian would be proud

[@d.m.collins1501]

This is one of the best concepts for an alternate history piece that I've ever heard.

[@paidyak7925]

Imagine the all the possibilities if two people pegged

[@tricivenola8164]

Fascinating speculation. The champion of literacy wed to the champion of imagery. Ironically the only image of her besides coinage seems to be the one on the rood screen now in San Marco Cathedral in Venice, looted from Hagia Sophia by Italian Crusaders in 1204. The image shown here, one of a scant few surviving mosaics in Hagia Sophia, is the Empress Irene who built the nearby Church of Christ Pantocrater, now Zeyrek Mosque, in in 1136. It's her huge malachite tomb in the gallery, but I doubt she's still in it. I love this attention to our Empresses. Thanks for the video!

[@philipthespectrestudios605]

The east barely even held greece at this time how the hell are they going to regain egypt when even with the fracturing of the ABbasid caliphate in our timeline they barley retook antioch cilicia and crete

[@nekowolf8888]

Nice seeing the audio quality has improved.

[@Nobody-Ever]

*This is the biggest fanfic and crossover yet*

[@DrDoomsd]

ERE wasn't in decline from the 800's in 1020 they were still the strongest in Europe...

[@iustinianusspeedruns]

With the 800's land?

[@ivanf.482]

This is beautiful. I've looked at this for 5 hours now

[@fernandomorgado4001]

I like the fact that Portugal is just: mehh we are fine over here

[@MandalorV7]

Probably a buffer state for the Romans or Mongols in this timeline

[@flavivsaetivs5738]

@@MandalorV7 buffer to what?

[@G.A.C_Preserve]

@@flavivsaetivs5738 the ocean

[@adivshtein2054]

Alternative name for the video: The empire strikes back

[@TannerSwizel]

I wonder how much an intellectual golden age would arise from reuniting all of the Mediterranean again; would today's technology be 100-200 years more advanced? Or unchanged since trade in the Mediterranean was already well established?

[@nurettinburakcevikparmak6298]

You should do a part 2 to this alt history

[@ikengaspirit3063]

I think you should have used the version where it is Charlemagne's daughter and Irene's son that got married instead, with her sending him away to the west for sometime to avoid him. Then again I think she would be too paranoid to send him to another powerful Kingdom. Fuck it let me try something. Irene sends Constantine VI to Charlemagne to Marry his first daughter and keep him busy. In his years there he goes on Campaign with Charlemagne and gains some backbone, Charlemagne wanting to Impress the future Emperor campaigns too hard and gets his only legitimate son (Louis the Pious) killed (He still crushes the Franks and sends some of that as Gifts to Constantinople under himself and Constantine VI). He still wants to be Emperor and later gets Constantine VI to crown him Augustus of the Franks and Western Romans. Emperor of the West and Co-Emperor of Constantine VI in doing this he avoids giving the Church any position over him. Constantine IV not only has a backbone but has now gotten a loyal following of Franks with whom he retakes Constantinople after Irene is removed from power by her ministers. In recognition of his Grandson Theophilus (alt hist Constantine VI son) he wills his Empire over to Constantine VI and Theophilus. His illegitimate sons and some other Franks and Slavs rebel and Constantine VI leaves his son under the care of a Frankish general in Constantinople and goes to squash the rebellions and conquer Slavs and Avar remnants to the West. He is forced to stay in the Frankish portion of the Empire throughout while is son is raised in a mix of Frankish war traditions and Roman scholarly Tradition. Leading him in battle against the Arabs and the Bulgars. The East serves as a dumping ground for excess sons from West Frankia, fighting the Arabs. When Constantine VI dies, his Son succeeds him by going to the West. While leaving his own son in East, beginning an ad hoc succession Tradition. Theophilus would dream to connect the two halves of the Empire via land and Campaign against the Slavs of the Balkans relentlessly. Unlike his father however, Theophilus would birth several Children in the West who would war with him and gain favour and during his father's old age already planning on how to depose his brother. As soon as he got the Chance, he Campaigned against the Balkan Slavs and Bulgars, passifying them and from there sieging Constantinople, managing to get in through intrigue. Three generations of single successions has removed the idea of Gravel kind from the Imperial throne, while Gravelkind among the Nobels keeps them weak. The Roman resettling of the Balkans has started an the new Emperor, Paul now stays in the East to protect it from the Arabs. He would send a Greek general to put down Frankish revolts and he would succeed. ( As the Franks would be balknaized by Gravel Kind). Under overwhelming Roman superiority, the Bulgarians convert and focus mostly North. Paul would die in battle and be succeeded by a Son from the West who will kill all his brothers called Olaf the Bloody. He would go to the Eastern Empire with his body guard but later e assassinated by the Armenian general that was governing the East while he was killing his brothers. The East and West the almost simultaneously break into civil war. They only saved as the West reunified under the son of the Greek general that Paul sent to pacify the West. He sends his brother East to take the East, doing so again through intrigue as Paul still had supporters. A new dynasty is in now. The brothers rule and mostly don't disturb the other as they are fighting other wars and the brother in the East (under pressure) takes no wives. After the brother in the East goes the brother in the West goes East, leaving his son and family to secure the West. Generations of Franks ruling in the East has created a distinct Franko-Greek Population who are the Army around Constantinople. Who preserving some feudal view on power would eventually see themselves overthrow this second dynasty for their general, a role that had become semi-hereditary. The West however would see this family grow as Gravelkind became institutionalized in law for Franks, while the Imperial family was allowed to grow their lands. The Empire would manage another by keeping Junior (usually the son) and Senior Emperors at different sides of the Empire and using generals and armies from the other side of the Empire to control the other. After the reign of the brothers, the Western brother's son Porphyrogenitus would take over and he was the only legitimate son. He would use his cousin to take care of revolts by his bastard brothers while he started the process of reconquering the East. He would notice that the Frankish soldiers not around Constantinople had created a Feudal like organization in the borderlands. He would conquer a far as the upper Euphrates settling more Franks and Greeks in this pseudo Feudal system with a Feudal inheritance system beneath and a theme over them. The Franko-Greeks have begun adopting Roman inheritance systems, allowing them to grow power with the generations. Porphyrogenitus would be succeeded by Dikephorus who finally conquered the Bulgurs after they had been weakened by a joint force of Rus and Magyars who now began attacking around the Black Sea. Unfortunately as the power of the Western Greeks grew they would be able to amass centres of power while in the East the Franks there would be able to ally with Each other. The East Eventually goes into the hands of a Frankish dynasty and the West to a Greek dynasty

[@kurzackd]

SHOUTOUT TO BULGARIA !!!! too bad the scenarios here are completely unrealistic... Bulgaria was mopping the floor with every one of its neighbors at the time. Actually, the previous Emperor (Constantine V) died while heading a campaign against us.

[@tiusernamenabalw]

Basel…

[@kurzackd]

@@tiusernamenabalw that was much later.

[@wankawanka3053]

@@kurzackd not really

[@wankawanka3053]

@@kurzackd Constantine v crushed the bulgars many times you probably skipped that 😅

[@kurzackd]

@@wankawanka3053 no he did not. Read up. :)

[@andrefarfan4372]

Nice video

[@amienabled6665]

Best timeline and you can't change my mind

[@tymiller176]

I love the ERE. That's why I'm part of the Byzantium Novum community

[@alexbreeze4978]

Cool me too. I made a discord server for it. Would you like to join

[@theemissary1433]

Same. ERE all the way, now that the West has fallen

[@gordonfreeman8109]

​@@theemissary1433 Billions mvst...

[@ffls775]

I've always thought about this, thanks you

[@luisartss]

I had an idea for an Scenario What if China modernize under the Qing Dynasty ?

[@lephantomchickn3676]

That's freaky, I was just playing Medieval 2 total war as the HRE and I was allied with the Byzantines for the whole game while uniting Western Europe.

[@TheLocalLt]

Charlemagne’s Empire was NOT the Holy Roman Empire, it was a Frankish-Roman Empire which then split into the Kingdom of France and the Kingdom of the Germans, the latter of which reconquered Rome in 962 and founded a German-Roman Empire, which in the 1100s would be named the Holy Roman Empire, or Realm, by Fredrick Barbarossa

[@morehuman9278]

The map we never had 😭

[@brokenbridge6316]

What a fun n informative video. I love a good "What if."

[@natheriver8910]

Very nice

[@irgendwer3610]

Monsieur Z: BIG EMPIRE Reality: Big empires are hard to control with the feudal system, Irene was very unpopular an was murdered in our timeline, the empire would be divided between their children

[@jackwayne6687]

Am I the only one bothered by the map? Where is the Aral Sea?

[@mattpliska]

Wow, I had the same exact idea. Atleast for the point of divergence, well done.

[@KingdomofSanctimonia]

Big fan!

[@bobmcbob9856]

I find it funny how through much of this timeline, despite the massive Roman Empire surrounding it, Serbia, or at least Raška, remains depicted as not even a vassal but truly independent despite being (nominally) vassals and border guards for the Byzantine emperors at the point of divergence

[@compatriot852]

Funny enough this is how my CK2 Charlemagne playthrough went. I ended up uniting with the Byzantines and reuniting rome by accident