What If Demoman Got the Gunboats?

Рет қаралды 8,892

Күн бұрын

With how important the Gunboats are for Soldier's arsenal, it's hard to imagine that all those years ago Demo might have actually been the class to receive them. Considering this, I wanted to take a look at the alternate history and theorize what the meta would look like if Soldier didn't have Gunboats, if Demo did, and how the two classes use the same weapon in unique ways

Пікірлер: 80

@deroplat 4 ай бұрын

"Shockit-Potgun" Thank you for my new shotgun name. Lol...

@mrstudent9125 4 ай бұрын

I feel like they'd banned like Booties. "Demoman can reach mid slightly faster with them, which forces both teams to use it, so it's op".

@septimustache6359 4 ай бұрын

That's so lame... I hate the ban list as it is.

@xcmledder3420 Ай бұрын

EU players really be like: "So there's this unlock-" "Ban it."

@cinquine1 Ай бұрын

@@septimustache6359 Easy solution, move to NA Also the booties aren't banned

@user-sh1gx8oh9j 18 күн бұрын

@@cinquine1 Ping: Exists

@cinquine1 16 күн бұрын

@@user-sh1gx8oh9j that's why you move

@mdbones1582 4 ай бұрын

TF2 Classic allows demo to use gunboats. It's quite unpopular in pub servers, though very fun to fly over everything and surprise players with traps.

@artifactU 4 ай бұрын

tf2 classic is whacky

@VancesisDoesNot 4 ай бұрын

I wanted to write that! It's pretty fun to use them indeed

@krollic 4 ай бұрын

Provided soldier lost the war, I think blackboats would have to be meta over pipes. He'd arrive to mid lightning fast on near full hp and lock down any entrance immediately; a regular pipe demo would never be able to contest his initial and neither would the shotgun soldiers. You would also have demomen mobilizing/repositioning far more often defensively and offensively. Double sticky jumps/airpogos to flank or backcap would no longer explicitly be gimmicks as he wouldn't immediately destroy himself while being extremely difficult to shoot. He would also likely run paintrain to mid to try and secure a lot of initial cap time. I don't think it would be very good for the quality of the game. If both classes had boats it might be more tenable though. I agree with the other poster who said we landed on the correct timeline.

@cosmicpotato3849 3 ай бұрын

Following on from this, I think that’s why Valve “rigged” the war so soldier got the gunboats. If I remember right Demo actually won by the point count, but an art contest Valve hosted gave bonus points (which is subjective of course) so that gave soldier the win

@krollic 3 ай бұрын

@@cosmicpotato3849 tru

@N0THANKY0U 4 ай бұрын

im a sticky jumper addict. Sticky jumper pain train in casual 5cp turns you into an insane backcap machine

@Grampssssss 4 ай бұрын

But you can’t cap with sticky jumper right

@objectionablycurious 4 ай бұрын

@@Grampssssss You can cap control points and the payload cart with the sticky jumper, you just can't carry the intel or the passtime jack

@diegodankquixote-wry3242 4 ай бұрын

The mid air sticky jumping being Viable would be hilarious. Demos litterally flying around any map with a tall skybox

@artifactU 4 ай бұрын

@diegodankquixote-wry3242 4 ай бұрын

@@artifactU yes

@Psychopathman12 4 ай бұрын

While Robin Walker stated that the Demo would've gotten the Gunboats had he won the War, the fact that the victor was ultimately swayed by the propaganda contest means that the TF2 team still had full control over who actually got them. What is interesting regarding Demoman's WAR spoils though is that all of the items involved were directly made to enhance alternate Demoman playstyles that weren't the airburst/trap hybrid damage machine that is the Stickybomb Launcher. While not intentional to cater to the fledgling competitive scene at the time, the grenadier focused and trap focused players you'd find in pubs had some new toys to play around with. A bit of an amusing observation is that the v1 Chargin Targe did function as a Gunboats for Demoman, since they resisted all explosive damage including self-inflicted. Obviously grenade jumps aren't nearly on the same level as stickyjumps, but it was an coincidental;y analogous implementation (before it got nerfed away because it also was resisting self-damage when you're piping people at point blank). Now I'm not trying to accuse Robin of playing favorites with his preferred class, but I think that the circumstances of the Targe being a sort-of-but-not-quite Diet Gunboats before release convinced them to bias the propaganda results toward Soldier. Plus they obviously tried them out with both classes internally so their first-hand experience could've easily been a major factor as well.

@strayorion2031 4 ай бұрын

Imagine if they made a "the peace update" and they gave demo the gunboats on it

@ToastedEgg89 4 ай бұрын

I have always found the little nuances between Demoman's and Soldier's explosive jumping to be very interesting. Soldier's jumps are quick and direct. He takes less self-damage. Demoman's intial jumps are a little slower because of Sticky arm time, Demo has less HP and very little self-damage resistance but a single Stickybomb sends you further and you can jump with multiple Stickies at once and you can chain together midair jumps because you can manually detonate. It's also fascinating how these differences between the two were pretty much always there, even as far back as the first release of the Team Fortress Quake mod

@JSmith213 4 ай бұрын

As someone who hasn't played 6s since Shotgun-Pocket meta, in the era in which gunboats were fresh and Roamers were loving their newfound freedom I have to say I've always felt like we got the right timeline with Soldier gunboats. Especially seeing how the meta has developed into 2-full time gunboats Soldiers post-Scout speed update. I can't imagine Demo Gunboats being a pick, with how long sticks take to reload giving up your pipes just feels like a trade-off you *can't* make in most situations. And I can never imagine a meta where your one-of Demoman is bombing in to sac with gunboats on the regular either, just too much of a loss of value. The utility and mobility it gives to Soldier is just something that would never have been replicated giving them to Demo.

@kreany8981 2 ай бұрын

you could make the aruement about the booties then they banned it cause the demo met at mid slihtly faster so they banned it

@nuwub 4 ай бұрын

I’m telling you guys, eating food wether it be breakfast, lunch or dinner while watching his content just makes it 110% better.

@nuwub 4 ай бұрын

Dudes will see little cat pfp with a heart and say hell yeah.

@user-bkey 4 ай бұрын

youre not wrong these videos have been like the main thing ive watched while eating recently

@abgadi1305 4 ай бұрын

The real question should be: What if Demoman got the Mannthreads? Would there be a Trollerman subclass with the sticky jumper????

@monkeeboy830 Ай бұрын

No market gardener for demo

@JaguarFiend 3 ай бұрын

Think about this critically. Demo was never going to have the gunboats. Both classes got their metal shoes--it was just a matter of who got theirs first--if you even trust that actual numbers were being counted as far as tracking who won the 'war'. Every single aspect of this could have been, and likely was, pre-determined and then delivered to us by Valve. Like events playing out in matches of WWE wrestling.

@RealBenitoMussolini1883 4 ай бұрын

I completely agree about the sticky jumper I'm shit at sticky jumping and I can easily fly halfway across upward with the sticky jumper

@That_Paperbag 4 ай бұрын

the steam notifications always get me

@SUPERBUBU-jb9tl 4 ай бұрын

I used to keep mandela-effecting, thinking that demo had the gunboats but I was thinking about the wee booties

@PDudeJr 3 ай бұрын

I love sticky jumper on casual. If you're consistently good at hitting pipes, you become an absolute menace.

@suchmuse 4 ай бұрын

Love how the loch pipe at 14:56 completely stopped their uber. They got knocked down and couldnt even dream of getting on the point quick enough!

@oiytd5wugho 4 ай бұрын

Whenever I feel like we're living in the worst possible timeline I remind myself that demo could've gotten gunboats and feel better

@oiytd5wugho 4 ай бұрын

also, on the topic of demoman what-ifs I wonder how the game would look if valve didn't reverse the short-lived stickybomb nerf. Would we see class limit 2 on demo maybe?? (I think that was their intention)

@capnfapn 4 ай бұрын

"somebody messaged me!" "oh ...right..."

@Lawlz4Dayzz 4 ай бұрын

We wouldnt get Demoknight nearly as good as we have today so worth it.

@yogurtColombiano 4 ай бұрын

There's rollouts with shield trimping, they rely on using the tide turner and make a good mobility tool, but sticky jumper is less dependent on the map geometry and can be used pretty much whenever it is loaded in difference with the tide turner that needs shield load to be full via killing or picking ammo iirc. All of the rollouts that trimping can do the sticky jumper can do them too plus more imo. Midair speed pogos or quick retreat when you land in an unfavorable position, for saying some examples.

@gunslinger_rafa 4 ай бұрын

Dude, I love your discussion videos. Very well articulated and super interesting every time. Great stuff! ❤

@thomaskolar90 Ай бұрын

As someone who pretty much only plays casual - this seems like a pretty accessible example for an unlock that significantly changed the meta, but wasn't banned because it made the meta better? Makes the point pretty clear that if weapons are banned because of their impact on the meta, it's because it would make the meta suck if they were part of it, not because the meta is sacred and cannot change.

@puzzlepuddles6712 3 ай бұрын

seeing which slot the booties take up, i don't think lots of demos would give up their primary. the sticky tank has been talked about before but it never rose up, although it is enticing to reduce the enormous amounts of self-damage stickies inflict

@antlerman7644 2 ай бұрын

1:53 what a nice market garden

@Pszekpszek Ай бұрын

Makes you wonder - if the gunboats came out today would they be banned because of how much the centralize the meta around them?

@itsasecrettoevery1 4 ай бұрын

youre like the less angry tf2 version of BKC

@jibawub8515 4 ай бұрын

I honestly would love to see demo get gunboats just to see how the meta gets shaken up

@cerocero2817 16 күн бұрын

If one demo has gunboats and the other pipe, on mid, wouldn't the gunboats demo with high HP be able to jump and kill the other demo and get away before the enemy soldiers arrive relatively consistently? If the other demo doesn't go mid as fast as possible he would have time to set a better trap.

@Rdotmop 4 ай бұрын

Demoman with Gunboats would also have a lot harder of a time setting sticky traps since unless you were using the Scottish Resistance (which you probably aren't) you would have no ranged damage without detonating your trap, so I imagine that having to switch to being defensive would be a little harder, or if you're by spawn even make you want to just go back and switch to pipes

@Lawlz4Dayzz 4 ай бұрын

I prefer Demo and im glad soldier got them cause he really needed with while Demo would just have another sub class that Demoman would be used more of.

@matomatic4599 4 ай бұрын

Demo would have amazing drip, that's what.

@mahikmamun3711 3 ай бұрын

what if soldier had gunboats and shotgun at the same time

@eksskellybur 4 ай бұрын

Here's how I would have seen it in Sixes: Gunboats Soldier: 2 Scouts 2 Soldiers (Sometimes you will get a shotgun soldier) 1 Demoman 1 Medic Gunboats Demoman: Probaply ALWAYS 1 Gunboats Demo Probaply 2 Shotgun Soldiers (Sometimes you will get the niche Supportive soldier such as Battletion;s/Conch Soldier) 2 Scouts 1 Medic

@scarymonsters524 4 ай бұрын

Tomorrow's video: _What if both Soldier and Demoman Have Gunboats?_

@mrstudent9125 4 ай бұрын

Isn't double gunboats a result of Medi gun mirroring Scout speed? Pocket Scouts made shotgun Soldier less viable.

@adityan.4744 4 ай бұрын

Reject gunboats meta. Return to shocket potgun

@damianateiro 4 ай бұрын

play tf2 classic there the demo has the gunboats, it's not like many use it.

@blacksmithgames8739 4 ай бұрын

Not many use it primarily due to the Dynamite and Mine Layer, which both require a primary Grenade Launcher for them to be useful. Also the Mine Layer might be a smidge too powerful rn so many Demos are just using it instead of stickies. If using stock stickies, tho, the Gunboats are really fun and pretty decent. It's at least a much better sidegrade than the version we have now, which is a use-it-or-KYS sort of deal.

@Grampssssss 4 ай бұрын

Hey I’d really appreciate if you could walk someone through how to get involved in comp if they’re interested, I’ve been trying to get into the scene for a long time but it’s just so hard to figure out where to get a start all I can do is watch these videos lol

@Wild_Rumpus 4 ай бұрын

i do have a really old video covering the topic but in north america the best starters are newbie mixes every friday and the tf2 coaching central discord

@bethnicz 4 ай бұрын

@@Wild_Rumpus a good way as well is through firesidecast because I made a video for everyone to find ways to get resources and KZbin channels in the comp scene that’ll be helpful to everyone, apologies for the shill but I thought it would be helpful in general to get others into the scene 😅

@Lawlz4Dayzz 4 ай бұрын

Want to add that Demo def didnt lose the war because Soldier mains are better but because Soldier is alot easier for new players while if I try to play Demo and Im too tired I cant calculate everything to land nades and get the sticky timing right and end up getting no kills and killed instead while Im always able to double rocket in the general enemies direction to get a kill or two per life as soldier. It doesnt mean the classes or their mains are better but Soldier basically is the best class for a tutorial to TF2 for new players and why ihes the most popular class to play by far.

@damianateiro 4 ай бұрын

I don't see it as meta as in soldier because you would be giving up your direct damage weapon for one that takes much longer to do damage, that and the spam would not be as efficient because you would not be throwing the 4 GL grenades but only the sticky ones, I think it can be seen with the Jumper, only the trolldier use the rocket Jump because you lose almost all your damage, on the other hand you can see very good demos using the sticky jumper much more often because you do not lose the direct damage of your GL and you have enormous mobility and if you add the pain train it is neither a crazy nor a bad strategy to capture points by surprise

@damsen978 4 ай бұрын

Team Fortress 2 Classic mostly covers that for you. Not the same as TF2 but there you can mess around with the idea at least. That, or just make a plugin that gives Demo the gunboats.

@andeve3 4 ай бұрын

Soldier getting Gunboats and Demo getting Booties/Bootlegger is The Best Timeline tbh

@mrstudent9125 4 ай бұрын

Not for Demoman players

@andeve3 4 ай бұрын

@@mrstudent9125 In TF2 Classic, Gunboats on Demo are OK, but nowhere near as good as Gunboats on Soldier (even without the Market Gardener or Escape Plan). Considering that only one class would get Gunboats, this was the ideal outcome.