How Accurate Are TF2's Class Categories?

TF2's class categories of Offense, Defense, and Support are an interesting relic of the game at launch, but how accurate are they? Let's take a look at how the different classes find their niches in competitive play.

[@admiral982]

many people will not remember that pyro has been in that "offense" category for longer than airblast has existed

[@kimgkomg]

Should have been in the "useless" category

[@godofportal5905]

@@kimgkomg AUGH

[@june9914]

@@kimgkomg I mean without airblast pyro is a fairly acceptable ambush class, but that's more of a defense thing

[@aidenb876]

I think valve's offense, defense and support categories are geared towards the newest players. Pyro is an offensive class if you wm1 and don't airblast much, and demo is a pure defense class if all you do is lay traps and miss pipes.

[@quinn799]

So that’s why engineer is on defense lol

[@mega-garbage7881]

On release Pyro didn't have airblast

[@OmegaRC59]

​@@mega-garbage7881Exactly, and in that context Pyro's flames are the most useful when suiciding for a pick, similar to how soldiers will bomb, but honestly way weaker. Airblast completely transformed Pyro's archetype into being more about controlling all the space within airblast range

[@gordistador]

To me, class categories are somewhat vague in meaning, but I have thought of some basic principles as to why the classes are categorized how they are. Offense classes get really in your face, they can deal a lot of damage by directly going for you (OFC pyro doesnt fit that well in comp, but if you think of a more casual level of play I believe he is an offense class). Defense classes deny areas with their efforts, but can be fairly vulnerable in the open (demo, heavy, engi are kinda bad in 1v1s, vulnerable to rushing, imo). Support classes add value to their teammates, and play off of their teammates existence, but by themselves they are extremely vulnerable/useless.

[@Das_Psycho]

I think you should make the distinction these apply in 6s. Because in HL, an aggressive pyro 'bombing'/'suiciding' with soldier and demo to get a force is quite viable. Agro pyro is seeing more place with detonator and jetpack.

[@ijijijijijlilili]

Well this guy almost never talks about other formats other than videos where we specifically says he does. And he does say in the beginning that he's talking from the perspective of 6s.

[@roshshow]

Even still, pyro in HL will spend most of their time playing defense with combo while demo and scout get the damage numbers up. If you look at logs pyro are beaten by engies in dpm. Pyro is just not an aggro class.

[@lessar2721]

​@@ijijijijijlilili ya. He even says that he has less experience in the others so its understandable

[@Das_Psycho]

@@roshshow Of course, all I'm saying is pyro -can- be aggressive.

[@tiler4418]

I've always seen the class lineup as a gradient, instead of 3 blocked categories. The defence category is very much emblematic of that. Very broadly, engineer is a very much a support defence character, demo is a offense defence class, and heavy is the closest thing to TF2 having a tank class.

[@bitnn4703]

This is a much better way of explaining this then I came up with.

[@thelamb8213]

The class picker menu was made before pyro even had airblast right? makes sense hes offense especially considering the power of wm1 in casual. Did Valve ever intend for stickies to be a second primary? I suppose with charging them but sticky spam is still way strong and theyve nerfed them before anyways (havnt watched vid yet)

[@pathulhu200]

they've always intended for stickies to be dual offense / defense and he's played like that since quake. him being able to do both spam and traps with just 1 weapon makes demo versatile

[@borkbork9541]

They did Try nerfing em once, but it was instantly reverted and never touched again

[@alexandera153]

@@pathulhu200sticks used to be the primary

[@genghisdingus]

Offense: Scout, Soldier, Spy Defense: Demo, Heavy, Sniper Support: Pyro, Engineer, Medic

[@johnnycakemusic4069]

Spy is offense?!? And demo is defense?!?! Whaaaaaaaaatttt???

[@lantern2972]

@@johnnycakemusic4069 spy as aggressive as he's always within enemy frontlines, but also blends into support because he's usually the most effective while the enemy team is paying attention to the rest of your team. The defense on demo as in he likes to set traps. I would agree with one of the comments above, the official categories are targeted toward newer players, who cannot trickstab, nor aim with pipes

[@gappleofdiscord9752]

I think the fact that we still can't find a good way to categorize the classes to this day is a testament to how uniquely designed each class really is. Each tf2 class is designed in a very special way to give it some use that no other class has and that's what makes tf2 much better than more modern games that usually fail to make truly unique classes that are all still fun to play.

[@DermoNONE]

thanks Rumpus for another great video it's really great to get into the head of someone who is experienced with 6s and the competitive meta I think the class categories are basically to tell super-noobs who are still trying to figure out how to play the game on a super basic level, like just learned the controls and don't know what any of the classes do. Offense tells them to rush down and get close to the enemies to deal a lot of damage, defense tells them it's more about hanging back and letting enemies come to your damage, and support tells them it's not about direct fighting. "understated" was the word you're looking for :P

[@damianateiro]

I can see the snpier and spy being an offensive support, if the Sidney sleeper, jarate and tribalmans shiv were the base weapons in sniper and the dart gun in the spy. On the other hand, many people take the categories more: power (heavy, demo, soldier and pyro) due to its large amount of damage, support (medic and engineer) it is not very necessary to explain why xd; and pick class (scout, spy and sniper) since these classes have the objective of eliminating specific targets one by one and are fragile

[@Tr4sh_can34]

I would split it like so: Pick classes: Scout, Sniper and spy. as they go for specific individuals Power classes: heavy, soldier and demo. high health and damage. frontline support: pyro, engi and medic.

[@newturtle3]

Stock = fit categories Once you start mix and matching weapon loadouts and positioning / other allies comboing they start going into other catgeories Example: Scout with mad milk and pre nerfed sandman. Bonk behind enemy lines makes him support destroying teles and picking off enemies Heavy is raw defense in terms of miniguns except with the tomislav and natasha as one is silent and is semi offensive with the tighter cone. Vs natasha is better at holding enemies allies. Pyro goes from offense with all flamethrowers. But add in the gas passer and neon / home wrecker and now support on engies Soldier has banners and cowmangler for defense / support Sniper has huntsman and sydney are raw offense or defense / high support. Demo has demoknight as a whole for offense Etc. Only really spy and medic are stuck in mostly support. Medic with healing and ubercharges. Spy unless you exploit hitboxes for backstabs its hard to be offense / defense but full support. All other class juggle around in their categories into others depending on weapons and how you play.

[@nosu5530]

I think the "catogorize" isn't about their role in the team, more about their playstyle (or their intented playstyle when first put into the game) Offense: -Scout can flank in and kill enemy quickly -Soldier can rocket jump. I don't think I need to explain much -Pyro doesn't have air blast capility when it's first added, and is intented to be an ambush character Defence: -Demoman was intented to be a trap character with his sticky bomb -Heavy is slow -Engineer's buildings builds too slow to play offensively (unless you want to play battle engie ofc) Support: -I believe that the catarolize doesn't means actual "support", but instead means the playstyle require enemy distracted by other team members, sort of like a "support fire" kind of things, and doesn't have much combat capility. This goes for all Medic, Sniper and Spy.

[@jasonanthonywilper]

I just binge watched loads of your videos. Great videos. 6s is the best format.

[@bitnn4703]

I like to think of the Class system as a Venn Diagram of sorts. The classes on the edge of each catagory mingle with the catagory their closest to, but are typically better in the catagory their in. And the class in the middle is a perfect representation of the catagory their in and mostly do the best in that situation. For Scout and Spy, they loop back to the Support and Offense catagories respectively. For example, Pyro is a mix of Offense and Defense. They can deal big damage up close and are very good at flanks for aggressive plays, but can also protect people from offensive spam as well as spycheck to protect teammates. And provide a bit of Support, while your at it. A perfect example of a "pure" class (the ones in the middle) is Heavy. Heavy EXCELS in defense due to his sluggish speed but incredible damage. There are items that mitigate this, yes, but Heavy will still typically be better when the Enemy has to move towards YOU rather then when YOU have to move towards the enemy even with these items. The only major issue I find with this is Medic and Sniper's placement. Sniper is more of a Support-Defense Hybrid then Medic, and Medic is a MUCH, MUCH better example of a "pure" support class then Sniper EVER could be. Other then that, I don't see any big flaws (other then maybe Scout placement, but Scout has a good chunk of Supportive aspects that just barely let him check out for a Offense-Support Hybrid, at least to me.

[@nickytembo4112]

I'd swap Engineer and Sniper when it comes to categories. Engineer has a healing dispenser and a Teleporter and his sentry deals area denial which helps his team defend control points and what not, which makes him Support to me, while Sniper on the other hand is always in the back shooting people from a distance, which makes him defense to me.

[@roshshow]

I think trying to base TF2 class categories off 6s play is just fundamentally wrong. TF2 is more than just one gamemode (5cp)

[@artifactU]

im pretty sure thats not what this video is trying to say

[@ssnofi]

as someone who is genuinely super disinterested with sixes and more towards HL i absolutely love your content going into it and am genuinely considering trying harder to become a sixes player

[@mada2774]

To me, the classifications are meant as follows: Offense classes can always press the opponent, requiring minimal prep. A scout can always dodge to reload, a soldier has the health to tank and reload, plus a second gun, and a pyro has an always-on primary. While this isn't a guarantee that they'll always be effective, it guarantees that you always have to at least respect their preferred range at all times Defense classes have significantly higher effectiveness, but only when they're "ready". Demo, aside from just placing his stickytraps, has to reload extensively and causes self harm when against close enemies, making an unprepared demo a dead demo. Heavy has his enormous damage locked behind a revup that every enemy will try to play around. Engineer is the most "defense" defense class because he physically cannot operate as he is intended without time to get his buildings up. Support classes trade guaranteed effectiveness for conditional effectiveness when they exert mastery in a certain aspect. A medic can easily be outdamaged by an additional source of firepower, but team health and overheal management mastery can facilitate flanker operation to break even, aside from mastery in survival granting the Übercharge. A spy needs to master stealth (or rather, "not beeing noticed until someone died already") and melee combat in order to become the only class that can reliably penetrate and kill far behind the frontline. A sniper needs to git gud at aiming and awareness, in exchange for near incontestable high-range damage.

[@RomanVman]

Ah man I remember thinking about this the other day. I haven't watched the video yet but my picks were the 4 following categories. Flank: Scout, Soldier Frontline: Pyro, Demo, Heavy Support: Engineer, Medic Pick: Sniper, Spy

[@NotCrowded]

spam being a very powerful defensive tool for shutting down pushes through doorways or choke points, i feel as if pyro is well suited for defending an offensive push, you can't be shut down by an uber, or a couple soldiers or demos spamming projectiles at the team as easily when you have a pyro around, also protecting the team from other pyro's through extinguishing is valuable

[@TeenWithACarrotIDK]

The way I view it, most of the classes actually could go into the support class set, including the characters already in it and both engineer and scout, though they can lie on the tree closer to defensive and offensive respectively. After that, soldier and demo are what I’d call power classes, and pyro and heavy as defensive classes. I think of pyro as being offensively defensive because he isn’t good on the purely offensive because he dies easily like that, but ambushes, using air blast, moving enemies away and killing spy’s are the things he is best at, and those things for the most part are what I’d consider to be offensively defensive. Heavy can be good offensively, but he is a bullet sponge that can serve as a way to attract agro and set up for pushes, which I’d consider to be pretty defensive. Defense classes I think mainly have abilities or aspects which allow them to prioritize reducing the damage done to the team while being offense classes (or power classes) I believe are mainly capable of dealing damage and destroying defenses, and support classes are supplementation and being part of a whole rather than being the main show or a class which is mainly designed to help other classes instead of holding their own, which is the reasoning for my considerations.

[@KnishG]

I’d like to hear your thoughts on how the medic move speed inheritance changes have changed the 6s meta (if at all)

[@junkyporpoise4254]

The way I like to categorise the 9 classes are as follows: Scout - Pure Offence Soldier - Offence/Defence Pyro - Offence/Support Demoman - Defence/Offence Heavy - Pure Defence Engineer - Defence/Support Medic - Pure Support Sniper - Support/Defence Spy - Support/Offence

[@keromora]

Sniper and spy force the enemy to play in a particular way. There’s many times you run a sniper and even if he doesn’t actually get a pick, he still provides incredible value because of the space he provides, the opposing team has to respect the sightline which can give your team room to push in. Spy can of course ferry information, but if the enemy team is checking behind them for a spy, they aren’t looking at you. But tbh I think the main reason the support classes in tf2 are designated such is because they are the only classes that need support from their team to truly function. Every other class has some degree of individual agency, even engineer assuming he can get his sentry up.

[@Opuck]

For checking to see if a player is running spy couldnt you check once and click tab to see if the name matched up with the player instead of doing it twice? Tbf tho I dont think quite understand how it works.

[@Wild_Rumpus]

often times once is enough if they have an unlock or cosmetic equipped but barring that it could've just randomly chosen their name so it's good to check multiple times to verify

[@Opuck]

@@Wild_Rumpus Oh ok I go it my 2fort brain couldn't understand it for a sec, thanks for clarifying

[@The0riginalpr0]

5:03 nice timing

[@sunderkeenin]

Support should just be re-contextualized as "Utility". Sniper and Spy are utility tools with singular purposes and capabilities just as Medic is, and they all fall equally under such a categorization. Engineer would technically fall there, but it's more important for new players to highlight the sheer defensive capability of the class than the utility of teleporters and dispensers even if teleporters win games in pubs.

[@strongfish9166]

Well, I always consider demo as both offensive and defensive, as I consider Junkrat in OW the same way, and, yeah, Junkrat was also considered as an defense character by Bilzzard back in the days, but we all know just how offensive they both can be.

[@Boomblox5896]

I think each of the categories have a pure class and a hybrid class, maybe more. Scout can either be pure Offense or Hybrid Support with his Mad Milk and drawing aggro with Bonk! Soldier can be either Offense or Defense (with Banners Supporting these playstyles) Pyro is PURE Offense for the most part aside from the occasional PyBro assisting the Engineer. Demoman is definitely a Hybrid between Offense and Defense, depending on which of his weapons you use the most. Heavy is capable of pushing an Offense, but his lack of mobility suits Defense on a single point more often than not. Engineer is PURE defense unless you're rocking the Gunslinger and battling it out on the frontlines. Medic is definitely PURE Support due to his role as a dedicated healer on both sides. Sniper is a supportive Defense class due to his lack of mobility and reliance on keeping an eye on certain sightlines and debuffing the enemy with piss. Spy is a supportive Offense class due to his ability to infiltrate enemy bases, but he disrupts buildings and key figures in the opposition so the rest of the team can attack more easily. There's a few more niche roles with the use of certain items like the Sandvich or the Huntsman, etc but I won't go into that.

[@robert9016]

Pick: Scout, Sniper, Spy Power: Soldier, Demoman, Heavy Support: Pyro, Engineer, Medic

[@feedtheorist9944]

scout is not more of a pick class than soldier is (nor is soldier more of a power class than scout, at least depending on how you define "power")

[@muti7632]

Scout is power

[@starmaker75]

Classes that crosses these categories: Solider: power-pick Pyro: support-power Spy: pick-supoort

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

@@feedtheorist9944 scout doesnt have the range nor the health to be a power class outside of 6s, in 12v12 theres simply too many enemies in large scale fights for him to do anything, he has pic on one guy at a time 1v1s exclusively

[@feedtheorist9944]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 like i said, depends heavily on how you define this very vague concept of "power class". definitely untrue that scout needs 1v1s in casual though, especially considering the skill level there.

[@feedtheorist9944]

i think the most accurate categorisation is: generalist (scout, soldier, demo, medic), defensive specialist (heavy, engi, pyro), pick specialist (sniper, spy). interested to see what you say in this video though. the in-game categorisation is very silly. sniper and spy arent support classes in the modern sense of the term, and demo is only situationally a better defensive class than scout, soldier or pyro (pyro offence??).

[@yosukehanamura3507]

I would argue that scout is more of a pick class due to his lack of crowd control unlike soldier and demoman

[@feedtheorist9944]

@@yosukehanamura3507 lack of cc doesnt make him a pick class, he still massively lacks the pick capability of sniper spy or soldier and has a shit ton of combat power. plus, i categorised scout as a generalist, how are you gonna say he's a pick specialist? he's the main 6s medic protector and offensive teamfighter. a combat powerhouse and generalist. certainly not a pick specialist, when he has other much greater capabilities and is massively outperformed in the pick department by 3 other classes (2 even more so).

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

this categorization only applies to 6s in casual its the same except scout becomes a pick class, and pyro becomes a spychecking class

[@feedtheorist9944]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 i dont believe applying the "pick class" categorisation to casual makes sense. the concept of a true pick play is too strategic to really talk about in the context of a casual match as if its a major thing there.

[@oiytd5wugho]

I feel like the *only* reason to put medic in the same category as _anything_ else is that sixes has those 4 classes most of the time. Medic is his own thing, calling him a "generalist" makes no sense beyond the implicit "sixes class" assignation

[@kokosmaelk]

I wish spy could get some sorta buff to help him setup plays, the class is one of the more interesting off classes just due to sheer utility but the plays can take so long and can be so easily stopped by accident that it becomes way bigger of an investment then it should be bit of a shame

[@klevinduck]

14:38 I just noticed for the first time a sticky sync. Very cool to see all of them land at roughly the same time. Fat damage for anyone if they got caught by it.

[@G-Man____]

I always thought the categories was not outdated because they still make sense. By the way I love your videos ❤

[@johnnycakemusic4069]

Lemme make this easy for yall. There aren't three roles. There's 5, and each class can do anywhere from 1 to all of them. Heres how they actually work in game. Scout : Offense, Defense, Flank, Pick Soldier : Offense, Defense, Flank, Pick, Support Demo : Offense, Defense, Flank, Pick Pyro : Defense, Flank Heavy : Offense, Defense Engineer : Defense, Support Medic : Support Sniper : Pick Spy : Flank, Pick Dont put classes in 1 dimensional categories. Judge them based off what they're good at doing. Each class is good at multiple things with few exceptions

[@johnnycakemusic4069]

Notice the typical 6s generalist classes fill at minimum 4/5 roles where the others don't. That's what makes them generalists. They're generally good in most situations because they fit almost all roles

[@hobobazaar8196]

Wild Rumpus Upload. Glorious Day.

[@SanguinaryRain]

the number 1 tf2 rambler is back!

[@ubermorpth2208]

Un-Related and such but, I assume you heard about Europe banning Loch & Load (least for spring season). Think you'll make a video talking about it or feel like it's not worth it?

[@Wild_Rumpus]

I already have a vid going over the loch you can check out

[@DermoNONE]

I was wondering, would demoknight see play in comp if it had a separate class limit from demoman? e.g., you can have 1 demoknight as off-class for soldier or scout and still have a demoman.

[@Wild_Rumpus]

i doubt it but who knows

[@puzzlepuddles6712]

26:21 that's cool. don't know if you airshot him or if he just died to the roller

[@starmaker75]

Given how munch the game evolved, pyro and demo should be switch. Even in casual, demo is going to be more in offensive given how munch sentries there can be. Also he is the best for Uber and krits. Offense heavy is interesting. He becomes both a archor and pusher. As in encourage the team to keep pushing. This best show in playload, the chart speed is as slowed as a heavy being ready to shoot his mini gun. However in 6 v 6 and 5 cp, the games encourages fast pace movement, that heavy struggle until the final capture even with weapons that help increase speed.

[@Grapevin]

Would you say that it would make sense to move anything around? Not in the sense of like, they should actually do it (it's been 17 years, at this point it is what it is), but just in the hypothetical sense. I don't want to assume, but from what you said it sounds like a Pyro/Sniper swap would make sense from your perspective, as Pyro is primarily useful for the utility of airblast and how your team plays around it, while Sniper is just meant to break/create stalemates which could either be offense or defense contextually but certainly isn't support.

[@OmegaRC59]

TF2's sense of the word "support" isn't quite the same as its modern usage. Sniper and Spy "support" the team through key picks that no other classes can get, and Spy is extremely capable at finishing weak targets off with the revolver and his ability to see health, along with his abilities in more communicative play. However, both of these classes struggle to replace generalist classes in a lineup, they're not made to do that job. They're best used to supplement the capabilities of an already existing team lineup. So because they're team supplements, they're naturally supportive. That's how I interpret it anyway

[@Grapevin]

@@OmegaRC59 The problem is that both of those definitions are overly broad. If support is just picking off important targets for you team to capitalize, Soldier is support. If support is needing a team around you and being defenseless outside your comfort zone, Heavy is support until he's revved and planted. I just don't think these are meaningful descriptions of what a class does

[@OmegaRC59]

@@Grapevin I mean that's kind of the thing about this game in general. Class roles are rarely strict. Medic doesn't fall into the same support category as Sniper and Spy, and he also isn't "supplemental". But you can't comprise a decent team full of only medic either. You need a class that can dish out some decent level of damage and fast, offensively or defensively, to go and pocket. Sniper and Spy both don't do well at dealing out lots of damage. They don't have defining offensive capabilities, nor are they a defensive specialist (though Sniper somewhat falls into defense as a pick class). That's kind of why the community's terms fall more into "generalist/specialist" or terms like "power class/pick class", etc. Offense/Defense/Support do tell you certain things about the class, but it's hard to get the whole story out of a word. Generalist as a term fails to convey how aggressive Scout and Soldier generally are, for example. Or how Demo or Pyro generally are more defensive in nature. There's really not a way to hard-categorize everything every class can do unique from one another in a single word. It's kind of a long way to say that yeah, Soldiers or Scouts getting picks is a support move (offensive). Pyro sticking near his team to airblast projectiles is a support move (defensive), just as much as original Pyro's design to get nearly guaranteed trades is a support move. Heavy is in general a defense support class. Engineer is also a defense support class that has a mix of roles because of his buildings. There's a very broad range of ways to support the team, which is in essence why the two classes that don't have a high degree of distinction in offense or defense fall back to being called supports. They're not classes you can stack together to push aggressively or hold the line effectively. But if you have a team full of scouts and soldiers (and OG Pyro), you have a very offensive team. Demo, Heavy, Engi, and Pyro all together form a very defensive team. A team with just Medic, Sniper, and Spy is hardly a team at all, because each class is looking for there to be a competent team of offense and defense classes for them to augment. You can kind of see how Valve's categories are intended to work in this example. They're most useful when picking a class to play, rather than defining how a class operates as a whole. Kind of goes to show how well-rounded the class lineup is when it's this hard to create categories for lmao

[@herothehedgefox]

your voice and delivery/rhetoric make me feel like i'm listening to a political podcast or something lmao, i love it

[@jbrnsek]

What did you think about the Rocket Jump battle royale tournament

[@Wild_Rumpus]

really cool

[@elkssr]

What do you think about making a video on valve comp? I played it past few days, seems like a fun time until you encounter 1 of the 3: 1. Group of cheaters 2. Group of people that know what they're doing and actively abusing the worst weapon combinations ever 3. Six engis on last =) Your voice is so calming I'd listen to anything at this point :)

[@Schierke-666]

What server are you playing on?

[@Bebop-vb8vv]

I think you meant ’understated’.

[@DYELGAINZ]

Not mentioning heavy on cart smh. Probably the best offensive play you can make on pl.

[@Joop_Invictvs]

The way I always saw it was Frontline, Backline and Flank. Each class has a role in each spots but they will tend to be most effective in a particular spot, and need to know how to read the room and observe their context so they can handle anywhere and intuitively know the spots that are most effective and need the most attention. Frontlines do most of the damage and establish the boundaries and positioning of the battle, backlines help support the frontlines by keeping them alive and flanking is just a useful way of getting around chokes and also chipping away at the enemy or their focus. Scout would be the mostly Frontline and Flank. Soldier would be any of them but mostly Frontline Pyro would be a versatile even split of all three Demoman would be mostly Frontline with alittle of the other stuff Heavy would be probably the most Frontline oriented of all the classes Engineer would be solidly Backline, even in the case of battle engie he is almost never fully Frontline. Medic would be Backline in that he usually is safely behind whoever he is healing but he can sorta show up anywhere. Sniper is solidly Backline Spy is Flank and (enemy) Backline You now can see why certain matches suck due to dumb class composition, and you just get pushed back endlessly and can't establish a frontline or control the fight, it's because you have 3 snipers and 2 spies when 3 of those should switch classes and become 1 scout 1 soldier and 1 heavy, or something like that and actually deny the enemy any forward movement. If we wanna use the lingo of "support" then it seems like those Frontline classes almost always end up the best support to a team that has no area control. Switching to Heavy or Medic because nobody wants to play those crucial classes has turned the tide of almost every losing game I've tried it in. No class is necessarily good or bad, they just have optimal roles and if you abide by those you will have an easy time.

[@jollygrapefruit786]

It's really as simple as generalist, specialist, and support. You could break it down further by damage/support type, but with just 9 classes I don't think that's really necessary. In terms of people calling scout or sniper a pick class, or heavy a tank or whatever, I think it's a misguided effort, because that's a role that those classes can fill. Demo can be a pick class for instance, and a pretty effective one at that despite the memes.

[@Ban-zx9se]

Why does your medic spam the medic voice line?

[@cheese1008]

Pretty sure it’s to hide the fully charged voice line

[@Ban-zx9se]

I figured, but i also feeling like spamming it to that extent can give away your specific positioning easier.

[@jaemotoo]

I thought it was to easily let teammates know where the medic is at all times

[@Ban-zx9se]

I think you're right

[@user-kf3fs2sz2d]

@@Ban-zx9se Since your teammates are usually closer than the enemy, it's more often telling your teammates where you are than the enemy.

[@ewamenamiesz]

just swap pyro and demo

[@connorbyers2415]

I agree with you on many things but I think the definitions you gave need to be broader. Offensive and defensive classes are power classes, pick, tank, and support. Offensive and defensive classes are your general power classes. That is because they excel in both capabilities. They're good in just about every situation. Pick Classes are classes that tend to flank and eliminate crucial targets. Tanks are classes that have a lot of health and can take quite a punch. Support classes are classes that heal, increase damage, and give speed boosts. Offensive and defensive classes are your general power classes since their offensive and defensive capabilities are extradoniary. Such as demo, soldier, pyro, and heavy. Offensive classes by themselves would be Scout, battle engineer and demoknight. Defensive classes by themselves would be engineer. Classes that fall into pick would be classes can pick off key targets (not just killing as you said in the video), these classes would be: Scout, soldier, trolldier, demoknight, hybrid knight, demoman to a certain degree, spy, jet pack pyro, sniper, and a pyro who is guarding an engineer nest, a medic and spy checking. Tanks would be demoknight, soldier, and heavy. Support classes would be engineer, medic, mad milk scout, soldier with any of his banners, and pyro.

[@mrstudent9125]

Hello

[@nin_31]

cool vid

[@isaacargesmith8217]

I think the distinction with "pick" classes to people is that the entire class is specialized just to get very specific key picks for the most part. They're much worse at basically everything else more often than not. Scouts able to get picks but he's also much better at doing a lot of other things too and has a much wider sorta duelist and anti bombing role among other things. Plus I think people also consider them pick classes due to the one shots. They kinda surprise you and one shot you before you can react if they are able to get their win condition off, where as even if scouts reached his win condition theoretically you COULD still survive by avoiding the followup shot even if thats extremely unlikely. Thats what i htink people mean at least when they say sniper and spy are pick classes but not scout.

[@aidenb876]

I agree. Both spy and sniper depend on combat classes either distracting enemies (spy) or keeping enemies far away from sniper. They can't really do too much on their own, especially when it comes to capping or pushing a cart.