What if Japan Had Converted to Christianity? | Alternate History Hub | A History Teacher Reacts

[@jtl-en4yx]

You can not understand modern history without understanding the influence that guns had on all aspects of modern history. I feel like many university level academics dislike guns because of political reasons, or are simply not interested in them so they do not get studies as much as other aspects of history, but the development and proliferation of firearms is a fascinating historical subject.

[@airsoftsniperm40a33]

The world was built and shaped by guns. They are the most important deciding factor in any battle or war.

[@dustydogger99]

⁷⁷

[@TheRezro]

You saying? Most of media pretend that there were no guns in medieval times. There were! At the same time when battle of Agincourt happen, Czech's did use cannon battlewagons.

[@jtl-en4yx]

@@TheRezro If you do not know the difference between the media and academia, then you just need to stop talking.

[@TheRezro]

@@jtl-en4yx But academia does talk about that on the deep level. Media does echo sentiments of the academia. It is not like directors do not use advice of the experts. Just those experts like to pretend that everything in medieval times was gray (lol, no), because it fit they narrative.

[@Corky1O1c]

Mr Terry: “The map is wrong! Water isn’t red!” Cody: “In THIS timeline, frozen deep within the polar ice caps, was a red pigmented liquid that released into the worlds oceans as they melted due to global warming. Forever effecting the color of the world’s oceans.” Mr Terry: “…”

[@paxhumana2015]

Me: "Global warming/global cooling/climate change is a scam, and the water is red because of all of the stupid idiots that thought that trying to murder myself because I would not buy into any of their various brands of b u l l s h i t was a good idea, so all of that red on the water is their blood from their dead corpses proving why that was not a good idea for any of them to have in their heads".

[@Fanta666]

Please do more of these alt history reaction videos the dialogue you had with the video and the analysis was super interesting and I love how you provided additional context.

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

I agree regarding that map color scheme. I know he makes it red because blood and violence, but there are better ways of doing it. Also if the ocean is darker than the land, it should be a shade of blue.

[@connergibson5930]

Or just not have varying shades and cracks that look like mountains and rivers

[@nataliekennedy4646]

Of course

[@MrTerry]

Which parts of their timeline did you disagree with?

[@prestonjones1653]

I'd disagree with the writing system changing. Writing was a tool for the elite pretty much everywhere BUT Japan, which had a literacy rate of around 30% by the time Tokugawa Ieasu had unified the island and over 50% by the time of the Meiji Restoration. Compare this to Medeival Europe were usually even kings and emperors were functionally illiterate.

[@superpumpkin1065]

@@prestonjones1653 the Vietnamese use to have a different writing system but the switch to a Latin based writing system after the French took over and still use it today even when their language is completely different from ours.

[@prestonjones1653]

@@superpumpkin1065 How much of population was literate?

[@MathsOP]

the part of the timeline when they decided to make a video about japan.

[@bakthihapuarachchi3447]

You should now watch the Whatifalthist version of this same scenario

[@007MrYang]

Yeah, I completely agree with the map color stuff. It's so confusing when people make the water look like land.

[@connergibson5930]

Yep, especially with the colours changing and the cracks that look like mountains and rivers

[@dragon_ninja_2186]

I get why you and others don’t like the way he does maps, but honestly I kinda like that it’s different. Again a stylistic choice and plus I like seeing some different than just the water blue all the time. Also as an avid viewer of his channel I’m just used to it.

[@Merennulli]

I found the texture of the red "ocean" to be more confusing than the color, but I will agree that when the water isn't blue on a map, I expect it to be the lightest color. I looked and I can't find any indication that there is a historical reason to have it red either. That seems to be just an aesthetic choice made for the video.

[@amu7379]

It's interesting how the West seems to think China fell to colonialism because of a lack of isolation compared to Japan. In China we are taught that the Qing Dynasty's early isolation was actually a bad thing that caused us to lag behind the European powers.

[@Jmcculloughc1350]

My first thought (I haven't finished the video yet) would be one way is the Emperor converts and then makes himself the Japanese Pope creating a separate Japanese Catholic church.

[@almalone3282]

While normally that would be a absolute no go given Europe's history of trying that in the past the extreme distance between Japan and the Pope might make it feasible

[@ACGreyhound04]

@@almalone3282 - This scenario would probably look like Henry VIII on steroids. If the narrow English Channel was enough to protect the schismatic Church of England from being reunified with Rome, then an Imperial Church of Japan would be that much freer to go its own way. It would probably evolve to look more and more like the Orthodox Church in nearby Russia.

[@PaoloCavestro-ey9bb]

What if Europe, Middle East, America and Africa had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?

[@mcmahon31619]

The bill wurzt shout out was magical

[@runespar]

Would highly suggest watching Silence, an adaptation of a novel by the same name. The book/film is about Jesuit missionaries in 17th century Japan and it's incredibly powerful.

[@tkdsaints5738]

If you like samurai history videos I would recommend the shogunate he has alot of sengoku era of japan the glorious time of the samurai before the peaceful edo era he also has a few videos called setting the stage series which would be the build up to the oni war and into the sengoku era

[@jasonpalacios1363]

Up until 1854 when the US Navy under Admiral Matthew Perry forced Japan open their ports in which they did then followed the Western military might in which it made Japan in only Asian nation to be a Military power by practicing Imperialism onto Korea,China and SE Asia in which they exploited them.

[@SirElderock]

8:50 he is saying that in order for the Shimabara Rebellion not to happen the Waring states period would have had to have lasted longer

[@GoodHunter9]

nope, you're right on the money. It always throws me off for a few seconds when I see a map with the dark color for water and the light one for land. There's always that split second of "wait where am I looking at" and then I realize that whoever made the map sucks.

[@MrTerry]

Thank you for backing me up on this!

[@avsbes98]

I think that a Scenario like this, with Japan becoming a Christian Nation is almost guaranteed to end in another Schism, with Japan basically establishing its own version of the Anglican Church, with the Emperor as God's Representative on Earth. How that might influence Relations with the Europeans, i'm unsure.

[@prestonjones1653]

If I recall correctly, I remember reading that at least one Emperor DID convert to Christianity, albeit with a more Dutch flavor. It didn't stick, clearly.

[@gaminguniverse3393]

There was a clan that converted to Christianity for guns by the Portuguese

[@jamesyap8364]

@@gaminguniverse3393 Otomo

[@rhoetusochten4211]

Akechi Mitsuhide eats some bad eels, and Oda Nobunaga becomes shogun. (That's how I would have changed the timeline) Nobunaga/Geronimo may not have been a true convert, but he was pragmatic...if he gained power from Christianity (say something like giving him license to destroy the Ikko) then I could see him using it as a hammer to enforce his rule. Maybe something like: instead of allowing sepuku, the dishonored individual is sent to become a monk, or making each clan that swears allegiance send one son to a monastery. (Both a hostage and a perpetuation of his power base) With the Christian practice of *not* recognizing cousin-marriage, the clans would be weakened, and eventually fall apart as they did in Europe. ...except the highest clans/noble families who could ignore such things...

[@ACGreyhound04]

Since when did Christians not recognize cousin marriage? The Habsburg family would like a word (at least those who could talk with their messed up jaws).

[@rhoetusochten4211]

@@ACGreyhound04 rank hath its privileges.(or pitfalls as the case may be) I forgot when the shift happened, but I was reading or watching something a few years ago on why Europe doesn't have the same "clan" or "tribe" issues that other parts of the world have.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@ACGreyhound04 leviticus (bible) outlaws incest, however it does not specifically outlaw cousin marriage. The church outlawed it specifically in the 400s, arguing that birth defects were proof that it was close enough to be incest (the bible generally outlaws incest, the later specifically outlaws parent-child, sibling, grandparent-child, and aunt/uncle-child relationships) However due to it not being specifically outlawed some with the church argued cousin marriage was OK. This resulted in the church heavily discouraging cousin-marriage but never really punnishing it.

[@paxhumana2015]

...only for the laws to also apply to even the highest noble houses, despite their protests otherwise on the matter, and then forced/arranged marriages are also outlawed upon all levels of society.

[@rhoetusochten4211]

@paxhumana2015 that would help, certainly. But, if your arranged marriage with a close cousin means their children cannot legally inherit, then chances are you'll find someone else to marry your kids off to. As for nobility, we humans often make exceptions for the exceptional. (By definition) Consider any modern celebrity who repeatedly does things that would bring censure on any normal person. The nobility could, possibly, get away with maintaining their traditions, but only so long as their individual strength stood. Consider: Noble A's family has fallen on hard times, they have defaulted on loans, squeezed their feifs for every grain of rice available, and lost their political gravitas. Noble family B has eyes on NFA's properties and convinces the lenders and government officials that NFB will get them SOME return. So NFB points out that the head of NFA has first cousins for parents, and suddenly the courts see action against NFA as legitimate because NFA shouldn't have inherited in the forst place. Realpolitik carries weight.

[@chrisigoeb]

My first thought: damn they wouldn't have that one nice national spirit in hearts of iron

[@AKAZA-kq8jd]

Yes watch that kings and generals video of Japan on that rebellion.

[@Nostripe361]

I think the five hundred years includes the time they, and maybe including Hideyoshi and Nobunaga, unified the state and the time they were first allowing the Europeans to enter and trade. Not just the last couple hundred when they severed all trade.

[@anthonyj.adventures9736]

I perfer for maps that the land masses be green and bodies of water blue.

[@terryrocks2j]

If Japan adopted Christianity, they be the best Christian nation in the world. I was watching a documentary on the Christians of Japan and almost of them agreed that the people in Japan almost behave like how a Christian should. They might not believe in God most of them, but they really got the attitude for it. I've been to Japan and almost all of them were very kind. Most of them have honor.

[@benstechroom]

I agree with the colors. I kept looking at the darker colors as land wondering why Japan looked so different...

[@anathardayaldar]

A great followup video is "How Japanese People Came to Hate Religions" by the channel Lets Ask Shogo

[@oliversherman2414]

Can you please react to the Kaiserreich documentary series? I forgot what the channel's called but there's an 8 episode series (each episode around half an hour long) about the lore behind hoi4 Kaiserreich

[@oliversherman2414]

I love your channel keep up the great stuff!

[@justinrichards2836]

You’re totally right about the map.

[@joshuaverkerk4532]

If Japan had been Catholic, they could have been hostile to Protestant powers like the Dutch and English, especially in the 17th century as a periphery to the 30 Years War. The Japanese could have allied with the Portuguese, Spanish and French and turned East Asia into a Catholic region of influence and trade, excluding the British and possibly even influencing the eventual colonization of India to a Portuguese/Spanish endeavor.

[@TheVanpablo79]

Agree, darker should be land. Water should always be represented in light blue

[@xcosmiccrunchx]

This is exactly why people mistakenly conflate atheism with totalitarian regimes. It's not about belief or the lack thereof, it's about control by whoever is on top (disguised as loyalty). Covert or die (or just die) is a human trait, not belonging to any particular group.

[@mikeor-]

In the Nazi hierarchy, Hitler called the Japanese "Honorary Aryans," seeing them as the closest thing to German Aryans outside of the parameters he set up.

[@maxpower7113]

"Between you and me, they don't look very Aryan."-Yorkie

[@rellfrommiii]

Japanese does use the Latin alphabet. It’s call romaji or roumaji

[@dominicanemperor28]

Mr. Terry, You need to react to AHH North Italy and South Italy video

[@pokemata1035]

No one expects the Japanese Inquisition.

[@swag31556]

I love alternate history hub, but Mr Terry ur 100000% right that he always picks the worst inverted color maps available.

[@thablackguy84]

18:07 "I DON'T LIKE THAT MAP." 😂😂😂

[@henryscarhead6119]

If Japan convert to Christianity (Catholic), they will still do island hopping and convert other neighboring countries like the Korean peninsula, Mongolia, China/Taiwan, yes they will still go to the Philippines but only a platfom to spring board to British indies/ Malaysia/Indonesia/Singapore and maybe up untill India/Pakistan.

[@joshjonson2368]

Mongolia can't be converted, they've always being hostile to faiths which don't fall in with their nomadic way of life, with islam being the sole exception

[@toopurge2]

29:11 Oh my Mr Terry..

[@nottheilluminati]

I agree about the map! 🤣 It makes my brain feel backwards.

[@ramadadiver59]

There's actually a lot of scientific literature on what effects Christianity has in a society . But you have to seperate intrinsic Christianty from extrinsic Christianty to get an accurate picture

[@thatnnoob6109]

React to kings and generals Japanese Christian rebellion next please!

[@josephdragunov374]

For Christianity to rise in Japan, Nobunaga should not have died, therefore the Tokugawa would remain as an ally of the Oda Clan, maybe Hideyoshi would just be a general of Nobunaga.

[@davidhumphrey2593]

I thought this one was VERY IMPORTANT!!! I had NOT previously know about the North/South 20%/80% Population living peoples living difference, and of course that makes all the difference in JAPAN when I'm trying to figure out why I'm being inspired by certain PARTS of a country and NOT others!! 🤮

[@andrew5576]

The map colors threw me off too

[@AKAZA-kq8jd]

If Japan was illiterate then yes Christianity would take over but they weren't and I don't know if they Familiar with Roman history but some of the Priest were crucified and later they were marked as saints.

[@gideonroos1188]

I seriously doubt it would have ended well for Japan is they had. It's largely thanks to the lack of a progressive Christian influence that Japan is still the sane place it is today and hasn't gone down the intersectionalist rabbit hole the west has.

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

They're becoming a hellhole for different reasons. At least intersectionalists are getting pushback here.

[@gideonroos1188]

@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 Oh, I'm not saying Japan doesn't have it's own issues. Heaven knows it does, and I see the issues regularly since I live here, but it has dodged a serious bullet when it comes to intersectionalism.

[@chrisvibz4753]

if the phillipines wouldve just defended their land, it wouldnt of happened. we need to stop feeling bad for natives and stuff when they did the same thing to their own people too but when they do it its ok bc theyre native

[@silver5499]

Personal map opinion; you’re right.

[@nataliekennedy4646]

You need to do a video about the Ainu they and the Japanese don’t get along much

[@sphinx3r]

You need to go back when you pause the video. He very clearly stated the very thing about Tokugawa you were confused about, but you missed it because of pausing.

[@RubRules]

Can you react to The Interstates Forgotten Code by CGP Grey

[@Rosario_Verano]

The darker color must always be the land. What is wrong with some people?

[@Seek1878]

Japan was smart to shut it down.

[@Gustavo_Perez_]

8:23

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

But a portion of Japan did adopt Catholicism thanks to the Portuguese who went there

[@hakonsgaming535]

what he's saying about the warring state's period continuing is that it's one of the prerequisites to conversion of the country. The other being no christian rebellion. He's pointing out that if the Tokugawa take over they will stomp out christianity because it's a threat so they need to not happen for christianity to win out. Also, just a note, your impression of the japanese not being culturally homogeneous before the Tokugawa is flat wrong and you should stop saying that. The Tokugawa POLITICALLY unified Japan, it was already VERY culturally unified. Much more than say ancient greece or the even the modern United States is. While it was certainly politically divided among the Daimyos, the people were much like the chinese during the various interregnums between dynasties, a single cultural unit split up into plauralities by regional power brokers. The Japanese were largely homogenized during the Heian period and a little before that by the earlier more active and politically relevant emperors.

[@janrudnicki6111]

Very good

[@svenrio8521]

Interesting stuff

[@ACGreyhound04]

There are actually still a few Catholic and Eastern Orthodox dioceses in Japan. I would think that if these were more influential, then Japan would look more like Vietnam or South Korea today.

[@RachelStormborn]

Lucky for them they didn’t, imo. There are few Countries that became predominantly Christian that hadn’t ended up subjugated by it, lost their own cultures, etc.

[@AdamPFarnsworth]

Yeah, "conversion" to Christianity often wasn't a choice

[@darter9000]

The issue was more the act of subjugation rather than conversion that lead to the problems you mention. For instance, Korea was subjugated by Japan, but South Korea has largely converted and even made Christianity a core part of their patriotic resistance movement against the Japanese in the first half of the 20th century. The Korean language was, ironically, spread by American and British missionaries as well. But it was the subjugation by a Shinto Japanese military that razed the historical royal palace and caused widespread damage across Korean civil and cultural society. I think you are mixing up cause and effect of subjugation/colonization and conversion.

[@fukuu7998]

​@@darter9000It's more because of the time period. If Japan had converted it might still be a base to help colonize Korea.

[@Hanashibi]

That reverence to the Pope was the big problem. The Pope is a man, a king in another land basically. While most Protestantism adheres to loyalty to your nation, and has passages about it being a holy duty to be loyal. It's also called Protestant because it was made in protest to the abuse of the bible and resulted in a list of 99 problems with the Catholic Church. A VERY interesting list to read. So when this video says 'Coverted to Christianity', it again steps into the Catholic Angle which had a VASTLY different view on personal economics and worldly loyalty than say Baptists. You see, Jesus said, give onto God what is God's and give on to Caesar what is Caesar's. Which means earthly loyalty, taxes, submission to local laws, service to your masters in government. All while trying to be as good, honest, godly people as possible. There is no 'larger body with an overall head' like Catholics have with the Pope. No Vatican to siphon funds and resources to. But the Catholics, for the longest time where the powerhouse. And they had a bogard against any 'fringes' and tried to keep not Jesuit numbers from reaching "The Orient". The difference in how a place turns out isn't just as simple as 'What if Christianity won?', because Christianity itself is vastly different between Catholics and the Post Martin Luther Protestants. Remember over half of modern Christianity holds resentment towards how the Catholics flat out ignore huge sections of the bible. Including but not limited investing the power and rights of God onto a human (The Pope).

[@luodeligesi7238]

Catholicism is nonetheless a branch of Christianity, and the branch that reached Japan and grew within its territory first in our timeline. It is also the branch that most aggressively spread through Spanish and Portuguese colonialism. Hence why this video assumes that, had Japan converted to Christianity at all, it would have been to Catholicism.

[@joshjonson2368]

​@@luodeligesi7238 which would've being bad for the imperial clan because they were supposed to be the divine incarnate objects of reverence, not the papacy and Japan becoming catholic would end with either their abdication or annihilation

[@jacobpan7768]

1st

[@suisui5930]

If Japan adopt Christianity, ATLUS will finally give us an actual good LAW ending in their SMT game

[@vilmawayfes6614]

Manga would be Christian forever.

[@mfsalatino]

Or Persona 3 would be more light.