WHAT IF LE MANS NEVER CHANGED? Modern Le Mans Prototype at the 1967 Le Mans 24hr Layout

[@johnkluge3421]

The old Lemans was insane. In the 1958 race, it poured literally all night. That was the race that Peter Collins got himself fired from Ferrari because he intentionally ruined the clutch on his car so that he wouldn't have to race at night in the storm. The race was won by Phil Hill and Olivier Gendebien. They won because Phil Hill figured out that if he raised himself up a bit and looked just over the windshield of their Ferrari 250TR he could see down the Mulsaine better than anyone else. Hill ended up making up like three laps on the leaders during his night stint. Hill was doing 170 mph down the Mulsaine straight, at night, in the pouring rain while looking just over his windshield to see. Balls of steel doesn't even begin to describe it. When Ford went to Lemans that had an existing relationship with Jim Clark who had been driving the Lotus/Ford Cortina in touring car races. So, Ford offered Clark some ungodly amount of money to drive the GT 40 at Lemans. Clark politely declined on the grounds that racing at LeMans was too risky. That is right, Jim freeking Clark, a man who won in the wet at old Spa thought Lemans was too risky even for the large fortune Ford was offering him.

[@Dochartach]

You should try the old Nordscheife with the Südschleife in one of the modern cars

[@eamonahern7495]

I'd watch that

[@bjarulez]

Good luck finding an accurate version of that track, when you do, I wanna know where

[@CopyofCharlotte]

@@bjarulez there's an Assetto Corsa mod that's been out for a while that's really good

[@DonatProdanSimRacing]

@@bjarulez there's a pretty good one for AC and I think rF2 as well

[@2themoon863]

Or how about F1 cars of today on the main LeMans circuit?

[@keystonedriving8180]

Very interesting, now try it in a 917k, there's another 35 mph to come on the straight! It's not going to be as quick through the corners mind.

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

He really needed a taller final gear ratio.

[@AidanMillward]

@@AndyFromBeaverton it was long enough, the aero drag is holding the car back.

[@MagnumLoadedTractor]

Also no tc or abs

[@billtruett8593]

I was going to suggest the Porsche also but 917/30 full boost !!!

[@ianyoung1106]

@@billtruett8593 Mulsanne might be long enough for the wheels to stop spinning….

[@mpainter22]

I'd be interested to see what a Group C car would do on this circuit something like the 962c or XJR 9LM

[@katherinewilliams5549]

In fairness, the chicanes weren't added down Mulsanne until 1990. So still only one braking point from Tertre Rouge to Indianapolis when they ran

[@dergeneralfluff]

I had done a lap in the MAK Corp Group C mod for rf2 a few years ago, specifically with the C11, and got the car up to 400+ kmph. Heck, one update allowed it to go up to 430, although that left the realm of reasonability even for that mod (and broke the balance completely), and it got nerfed back again

[@dimitris.4484]

Actually when group C was racing, mulsane straight had no chicanes and half of the track was still like the old one.

[@fix0the0spade]

One of the Peugeot Group C cars hit 405km/h on the Mulsanne straight, two years later in 1990 the chicanes were added.

[@hansgrueber8169]

@@fix0the0spade Yup, The C-9 doing nearly 250 mph also contributed to the chicane installation as well in the following years.

[@boxy2k8]

Be amusing to see which of the eras of cars is fastest round here. Probably the Group C monsters

[@bjarulez]

I would say late 80s - early 90s animals

[@MagnumLoadedTractor]

Also the 919 evo

[@charliemaybe]

Imagine group c but with modern tires

[@DonatProdanSimRacing]

@@bjarulez that's group c

[@DoomWarriorX]

Group 7. The Downforce of Gr. C is not needed and a Gr. 7 cars had same/more power and were lighter.

[@AvenEngineer]

I wish more tracks were designed specifically for sims. I would think people could come up with loads of beautiful tracks without any need for the unaesthetic safety infrastructure. Some of the coast road layouts in PCars 2 are stunning and crazy fun to race on.

[@jah24car]

I still wish not really well known but still known like say a cult following tracks like iracing has summit point but not every layout or updated layout for one of them.

[@BoxCarRacer-notthebandsorry]

Classic Spa in a modern prototype would have maybe 3 braking events over the lap lol

[@stevecleaver8933]

Another great video Aidan, really interesting to see how different the circuit was "back then" compared to "nowadays", great lap 2:55.744 with a top speed of 210mph .... To think the cars in the late '80's were topping out at more than 240mph (with a fastest ever record of 252mph) down the Mulsanne Straight ..... it really must have been fantastic, exhilarating AND PETRIFYING !! Especially as you literally JUMP over some of the little "rises", crazy times, ehhh !!!!

[@chrisbaker2903]

In 1969 the Ford GT MK IV was clocked at 245 MPH.

[@JakePetrolhead]

Such a well done track mod, they've really nailed the sense of peril that the old circuits were defined by - and it's downright terrifying in period cars, and to echo what you said in the video - how on earth did anyone walk out of this place alive?

[@bigsarge8795]

I just found this video. Bud, you are an absolute MAD MAN. Going down the Mulsanne without a barrier does not inspire confidence

[@adamfeder7125]

Mate what a great concept for a video!!! My goodness that was fun to watch. The idea of seeing what modern cars could do on the old configuration is just fantastic. Well done.

[@gwcrispi]

I was at the Foyt Wine Vault in Speedway IN Saturday night and the walls are plastered with pictures of his entire career. When I was looking at them I said EXACTLY the same thing that Aidan said in this video. "It is amazing that anyone survived racing in those days."

[@shig.bitz.3205]

I can't remember who said it, but one legendary driver or another described Indianapolis as the most annoying corner in motorsport, I can definitely understand why they said that too. The camber makes it very tricky at high speed but also gives the illusion of being able to take more speed than you actually can as the track quickly drops away on the outside at exit and then you have to be almost instantly on the brakes for the next apex which is a very sharp left hander.

[@MsZeeZed]

Old Le Mans still seems suitable (excepting that any “off” on Mulsanne is death with no cake) until you get to Maison Blanche and every lap feels like rebirth, take that attitude into to the pit straight 20 times the feeling of immortality is overwhelming. Far better to let the Porsche Curves scare you shitless and for the Ford Chicanes remind you what a public road is like (even though they’re not) before the track seduces & kills you.

[@johnelliott7850]

Love the Circuit De La Sarthe - old, and new. Nice video, A.M.

[@thatonenigeriansformula]

love banging out laps at leman in multi-class races, lapping cars and racing in the night , your car getting worn and dirty with wear.

[@paulgill5854]

2 questions - what time can you do in the dark And what happens if you deliberately bin it at the kink (love to see what the crash model does!). Love the vids - keep them coming!

[@JimmyFoxhound]

I love the look of these old tracks. I know they weren't safe but I'd still love to be able to race on them safely in modern videogames. I wish Gran Turismo had old versions of Monza, Le Mans & the old Nürburgring nordschleife

[@DjDolHaus86]

I'm sure you remember how bad headlights were on late 80's/early 90's cars compared to modern HIDs and LEDs. Imagine picking your way through the darkness at 200mph with headlights that were 20 years behind those candles in jam jars

[@darren2514fv]

What about doing 1967 Bathurst with the full length Conrod Straight in a current V8 Supercar

[@gregorynagy8448]

It is graet that we are able to do this "what if" through sim racing, but it is really only the "half" of how safety changed racing. The other half was the cars as they kept getting more and more restricted in the name of safety. Imagine the 917/30 engine with 956 group C aero, all given many years of development.

[@petergibbs]

YES! That's the Le Mans I love. I guess you can blame watching Steve McQueen's film too many times for that, but I love the curve round to the Dunlop's footbridge after the start and the straight in approach to the stands at the end of the lap, and not forgetting the super long Mulsaine straight. Oh well, at least I can dream.

[@AeroGuy07]

This was not what I was expecting, but I enjoyed it!

[@TheDrKyuss]

The first time I saw pictures and video of the old circuit it took my breath away. Utter insanity.

[@themuaddib]

Not even a lift through White House... He thinks 208 MPH is scary in a modern LMP1 car, but the Ford GT40 was going ~212 MPH in the 1969s and the Porsche 917K hit 225 MPH. The Ford was at least somewhat solidly built and the 1967 version of the car had a NASCAR-style roll cage, but the 917K was basically made out of paper mache. You'd barely scratch the bark if you hit a tree. Drivers back then were not drivers. They were test pilots.

[@josephernest91]

I was literally thinking about this very idea today on my way home from work. But added a comparison between LMP1/LMH vs F1.

[@sayharris1361]

Wicked! Nice run 👍🏽

[@Error_4x5]

I wish I could watch the 24hr from that alternate universe cause this looks amazing, lol.

[@rosumin38]

Be interesting try and take the Mercedes CLR around here and see how long it goes before taking off or if it happens at all.

[@juni_2452]

9:11 isn't that the complete opposite? I thought the Lmdh where in a straight line that an Lmp1, since they have less downforce

[@AidanMillward]

They’re on par with LMP2 in a straight line

[@garchompy_1561]

brooklands could be fun, it also has a few different layouts to chose from

[@adetaylor5997]

Great video, 1960's Spa would be great, interesting to see if you could take Eau Rouge flat!

[@firbolg]

Would love to try that track in GP Bikes....

[@kevinfoote3092]

Given where you are, I’m surprised the 1986 layout of Silverstone hasn’t been mentioned as a place to run this car. Suggestion 2 would be Laguna Seca pre-1988.. This is one thing that drives me bonkers: in the quest for simulation, when there are licenses for games, I don’t understand why more developers do not use older versions of race circuits in addition to the current ones that are often more fun that todays Tilkefied chicainefest, especially if they already have the license for the track.

[@DanLMH]

Nice shirt Aidan! 😉

[@haksdan]

You should use this track with other modern cars…great vid.

[@higamerXD]

someday, full unlimited class racing on a unlimited track will be the most crazy thing humans can witness.

[@bassplayer2011ify]

Just imagine taking the Mulsanne kink at 200 plus mph in traffic and in the dark.

[@SylviusTheMad]

Old Interlagos would be an interesting track if the model got the bumps right (Martin Brundle described the circuit as a goat trail).

[@minibus9]

awesome video. Future sugestion TT course for this a the modern f1 version if possible

[@pineapple8909]

Ngl i think this version of the circuit is more exciting than the current one and I think the faster lap time would defo improve the spectacle , maison Blanche in particular is awesome can’t believe it’s flat in a lmdh

[@RACECAR]

Man, this lap looks nuts. On the current configuration in a modern Le Mans Prototype, I can usually chuck the car through turn 10 just before Indianapolis and get on the brakes late (Took abit of trail and error before I got to the point where I could just do it perfect every time), but I'd be way too nervous to pull that off here on this configuration despite the downforce and modern tires. Despite it being technically for the most part the same, it just looks more claustrophobic and give that sense that the margin of error is doesn't exist.

[@zalcan3620]

Great vid and history, tho about a comment made early in the vid about F1 I really feel bad for those whose main motorsport series is F1

[@Scotracer1987]

For double upshift you should adjust the debounce timing on it. Most Sims have that.

[@Exponaut_R-01]

I've never played RF2 but can I just say every game should have gear tuning UI like that? It's spelled out so plainly, you know exactly what you're going to get out of each gear. The guesswork is satisfying to nail, sure, but it's a bit of convenience. Doesn't mean you know how much you're ruining your acceleration either.

[@DanLMH]

They added that back in January I believe, with the new UI, not been around long but very helpful!

[@matk4731]

Cool video. I found the track but cant find the car. Is there a link please.

[@thirdwheel1985au]

Is there an RSS Formula Hybrid equivalent for RF2? Might be interesting to see how it handles Le Grand.

[@palmermonsen9098]

How about trying the monza oval?

[@BigDaddyCoolID]

I know that a lot of comments are saying that you should do a Group C Prototype next, but I think it would be interesting to see a '67 F1 car on this layout.

[@paulcajkasr9600]

Neat video. Can you do this for Sebring?

[@simaesthesia]

Interesting video - I actually think I prefer the new layout, especially the Porsche curves. I get the point your making and the frightening speeds, but I like the technicality of the chicanes and the other changes when sim driving.

[@Carbon_]

You don't get any sensations when going 400 kph in simracing, in real life this must be frightening

[@simaesthesia]

@@Carbon_ absolutely!! 🙂

[@xrayjosh]

Imagine doing that for 8-10 hours over 24 hours. These guys are monsters.

[@QALibrary]

I want the current course but without the chicanes in the Mulsanne Straight

[@UrMomsChauffer]

I would be curious if an older car would be quicker. Group C, with a good set up, on this version of the track. The old Nordschleife version of the Nürburgring would be another awesome watch. Maybe add a few laps.

[@AidanMillward]

Group C would obliterate the modern cars on the straights but the newer ones would be way better on brakes and through the corners.

[@UrMomsChauffer]

@@AidanMillward I totally agree. I would just like to see the difference in times. Thanks for the reply.

[@wraith600original1]

Some of the old g3 cars hit 250mph so a bit of playing around with the gears is needed

[@AidanMillward]

There was nothing wrong with the gears, it had plenty to give. Aero drag was holding it back.

[@JimmyRJump]

You did well, lad.

[@silvy3047]

How did you get ByKolles to complete a whole lap?

[@joribremer5260]

With the Bykolles car… biggest question… can you finish a lap ? ;)

[@TestingPyros]

Wow... 211...Peugot P88 eat your heart out!!!! ;)

[@michaelself5655]

AVUS would awesome to see also

[@emmajacobs5575]

Now let’s see a few laps amongst the rest of the 60s cars including things like Austin Healey Sprites, with a top speed of only 145mph!

[@bernhardjordan9200]

Was that the taller that the gearing could go?

[@AidanMillward]

Gearing was fine. It was just aero drag kicking in and the engine not having the power to push through.

[@bernhardjordan9200]

@@AidanMillward you're right, the last shift light was just about to get on,

[@robertmitchell87]

I'd like to see old Spa in this series.

[@willvine4921]

I’m sure someone has probably mentioned it , but before they put the chicanes on the straight they were getting 240 plus ! That’s quite rapid .

[@aaronaaronsen3360]

Peugeot did a publicity stunt claiming they did 405km/h on that straight, in a bid to promote the new (at the time) Peugeot 405. Thing is, they actually did 407 km/h.

[@martinpenwald9475]

Exactly. Seeing here this thing barely reaching 350 when record is over 400 km/h make the whole thing ridiculous.

[@perresoren]

Please try a Sauber C9 around this old layout. I think it would be faster.

[@aleczani]

Huge huge fan.

[@mrwhiteshorts]

Aiden, Get a Mercedes CLR on the go... id LOVE to hear a sim racers take on the handling and feel of the thing. thanks.

[@bjarulez]

I was watching that one in 2013, looked like absolute nothing of a crash for Allan Simonson, then a couple of hours later he was dead, RIP 🕊

[@daveast2551]

Same car @ Spa-Francorchamps?

[@ThoTruck]

Why not adjust the gearing to fit the long straights?

[@AidanMillward]

I did. Aero drag was holding it back.

[@Michael_Michaels]

The final gear could be tuned to make the car go a bit faster. At least 230 mph.

[@MrMartinSchou]

This makes me wonder if the road legal hypercars could keep up. You're topping at 210 mph, whereas even a relatively old Koenigsegg Agera RS can top out at 270+ (set that record in 2017). They won't be as fast in the corners,obviously, but that kind of speed difference on the straight might be able to make the difference. And they're not exactly slouches, as they also hold the 0-400- km/h (250 mph) record at

[@AidanMillward]

Toyota was hitting about the same speed as me at real Le Mans.

[@michaelself5655]

Old style monza for sure!!!

[@charleshulsey3103]

Just like back in the day, top speed is everything. 1 mph=1sec+

[@hexgraphica]

What if targa Florio was still held to this day on a semi permanent shorter but still long modern day circuit, as a endurance championship race? Someone could do a mod of that

[@pedroferrr1412]

You already have Targa Florio on Rfactor 2, with 4 layouts. But only the 74 km will let with do a race. I have done that, but only 2 laps, with maybe 28 to 35 minutes each lap, depends on the cars.

[@sotirispolitis4617]

You should do this with group C cars

[@dubdaze68]

Try old Spa. What a dangerous, long, high speed course.

[@janoswimpffen7305]

A modern car would bottom out frequently on the old circuit. The surface was a lot rougher then.

[@tintinlavigne5257]

Yeah a modern car will certainly dismantle by itself on this circuit so the real question where the circuit is easy, the driver is good enough, but would the car finish in one piece😁 gamble are open.

[@GenoSalvati]

How long till iRacing runs out of modern tracks and starts releasing these old versions to keep the money flowing?

[@Gnrnrvids]

Aidan, you will not have the drink :D

[@darrenbrashaw8409]

It would be interesting to see how much faster you could lap Dundrod than the current superbike lap record .

[@brokeafengineerwannabe2071]

Seriously sometimes I mess up video made by you and GPlaps

[@thechosenone82517]

timo bernhard would do it in his 919 evo under 2:30

[@fernandes5986]

Very good video. I love the being able to race in old Le Mans especially the chicane after the Dunlop footbridge. To me, old track layouts were bigger and way more interesting, even the advertising panels were nicer, That's why I love the Goodwood Speed Festival, but they were too dangerous. Nevertheless some 50s Le Mans drivers said hat the only place they could relax was the Les Hunaudiéres straight without chicanes.

[@fernandes5986]

Correction, instead of Dunlop footbridge I mean Newton.

[@chrisg.2962]

This is definitely an alternative reality Bykolles has made it a lap

[@tintinlavigne5257]

Sorry to ask but is that mph or kph?

[@AidanMillward]

Miles. Proper units.

[@tintinlavigne5257]

@@AidanMillward 😆 of course what else 👌

[@Fishbone8891]

The real question is, could modern race engines handle being pegged at max RPM for that long to last the entire length of the straight?

[@fidur2]

I mean, reliability improved a lot since the 60's. My guess is that the engines could handle it, but most teams would like to play it safe.

[@Fishbone8891]

@@fidur2 I entirely agree with that statement, but look at how many cars failed to make it to the finish line back then from reliability. Today's engines don't need to be full throttle for that long over and over again.

[@clintonmorris8222]

The old kyalami track in Jody Sheckters Ferrari then in Micheals Ferrari then finally in the modern F1 car

[@billmcdonald4335]

I'm the opposite: can do competitive real-world times in the classic cars on classic tracks, yet drive like molasses uphill in modern kit. Vive la difference!

[@bucefal_157]

For the effort of trying to say "les Hunaudières" properly, you gained a subscriber... Merci ;)

[@mattsharp2794]

Just a what-if, could a nascar handle the Nurburgring?

[@RhodokTribesman]

Jimmy Broadbent has a series where he races wacky stuff around the Nurburgring, pretty sure a cup car was one of them

[@larreization]

Does anybody noticed that all the signs are referring to some sort of scientist? 😀

[@cudedog]

It was the tire manufacturers that demanded the chicanes to keep the top speeds down. Completely solid rubber wheels don't have much grip, so they have to keep the speeds around 210-220 mph.

[@haraldgrundetjern2184]

Isle of Man TT Mountain Course with an modern car

[@jansonb482]

You should've used the Nissan engine with it. It can hit up to 370 KP/h with no aero and special Setup config

[@eamonahern7495]

🍋🍋🍋 f1 cars at the end of the 1990s were doing above 220mph on the straight to the Jim Clark chicane at Hockenheim. So I thought modern hyper cars would match that on the old mulsanne straight.

[@AidanMillward]

The Toyotas were topping out at about 205 or something.

[@NBSV1]

Lots of downforce leads to aerodynamic drag. Since courses have gone away from big long straights they’ve focused more on corner speed at the expense of top speed.

[@TonyWhitley]

Wow, is it really 9 years since Allan Simonsen was killed at Tertre Rouge?

[@bunkermonkey_uk]

Been using BeamNG and the LeMans track with some seriously fast cars.

[@heliumtrophy]

My vote is Dijon or Clermont-Ferrand in those bad boys.

[@EMANUEL-vt8ok]

Actually If Le Mans never changed the circuit would have 16.340km with 2km longer mulsanne straight and overall 2.9km longer than the 1967 layout. Probabbly there is no convertion in racing games of the original circuit like the old Hockenheim.

[@paulcajkasr9600]

I have Alte Hockenheim in one of my older Playstation games. It's more of a hair raiser than the current circuit without the forest straights.