What if Lust ISN'T Every Man's Battle? - Start Your Engines Ep 15

[@chelseal654]

When I was a teenager, I heard a pastor tell a story about how a woman with a low cut top came to church. Church members were outraged that the pastor wouldn’t tell the GUEST in their congregation that her attire was “inappropriate.” Instead he called out his church members for not being more welcoming, and he went up and spoke to the woman, asked her how she was, etc. he said he instructed his boys to look her in the face, smile, be pleasant, and treat her like an actual person. And THAT is how you do it.

[@Legatt_shanty]

My father bought my brother every young man’s battle and bought me every young woman’s battle. This culture and the ideals are so toxic. I remember being in middle school and walking through the store. It was MY responsibility to keep an eye on my dad. If he looked at sports illustrated calendars or things like that it was MY responsibility to correct him. To remind him to have “rubber eye balls” to bounce his vision off of that stuff. Because he was taught it’s his constant battle and he was wired like that. I believed all men were like that until I met my husband. I believed that “we have a problem with lust. A sexual spirit if we desires sex.” Terrible. I am SO thankful for your podcasts and your books! So much healing because of you.

[@popssb]

The best thing I have found for freeing myself is to bless every woman I meet. When I bless them it brings us both into God's presence.

[@AndrewFromNewHampshire]

4:40 "Your sanctification is pretty much going to be getting over your sexual appetite" Yes. I can SO relate. Growing up in a Southern Baptist church and attending a Fundamentalist Baptist school, this was the ENTIRE message about sex given to boys. Not "most" of the message, or "part" of the message, but the ENTIRE message. And the message to the combined student body of boys and girls (provided that there be six inches or more of space between boys and girls at all times): "Sex is bad, sex is evil, and sex is gross .... which is why we have to save sex for marriage." No wonder so many of us grow up with a warped view of sex.

[@jamesbyerly8557]

Loving this conversation! As a pastor, I would love you hear a conversation between you and Scot McKnight. A Church Called Tov shows much of the negative side of lust and power in the church. As a pastor, I am trained that I can't be alone with a woman but am also part of an egalitarian denomination so I minister in partnership with women. The "flee the appearance of evil" and "be above reproach" ideas can make ministry difficult/inconvenient at times, so I'm really curious about your perspective of a healthy attitude toward these issues that also prevents the risk of accusations.

[@rosaliebarton9724]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/poG8mp5qocyqp8U

[@rosaliebarton9724]

Here’s their interview with Scot McKnight .

[@jamesbyerly8557]

@@rosaliebarton9724 thanks for sharing this! I'm so happy to see this interview!

[@aaronarhelm9113]

Respect is earned. It is not given. The baseline is called common courtesy.

[@marie33135]

Also, I never would have guessed at the stats!! I would have guessed 90-something % for what was actually 42%. I didn’t intend to think of men as worse than what was true, but how would I know what was true when books recommended by men...? So, thank you for researching!!

[@marie33135]

I feel complicated about the Billy Graham rule because some people who follow it are too respectable for me to say, “you’re doing life wrong.” At the same time, applying that rule at work would cause more weird awkwardness than not applying it. So, I try to do what seems normal in each context. Normal might include sharing a conference room, but normal never includes sharing a hotel room.

[@heidigillespie8522]

Thank you so much for addressing this!!!

[@Lauren-zv3rd]

Unfortunately my spouse does have the struggles which put him in the higher stat category. Emotional affair, lying about women he works with and abuse. I agree whole heartedly that our men have been conditioned to except less from themselves that what they were created to be. Thoughts = emotions = actions. If their "pumps are primed" their thoughts may lead to unhealthy emotions and ultimately sinful actions. So sad. Men are meant to be so much more!!

[@marie33135]

☹️☹️☹️ I hope you can find a way to safety. I know that no choice is easy in that situation, but I don’t wish for anyone be stuck in that situation ❤️.

[@pamelacompton9550]

Excellent. Best podcast/video yet. Thank you!

[@megtoholke825]

Thank you so much for being BOLD in the truth💕

[@UnacceptableTee]

Unfortunately; due to shame; some who took the study may not be telling the truth. I sure would love to believe that 25% don’t struggle.

[@BachBeethovenBerg]

I was wondering myself how honest these men were answering. However I also know there are psychological tests for things like personality disorders that can be constructed to mask the intent of the questions so the individual can’t easily manipulate it. That’s the kind of test we need for this to have more scientific confidence.

[@elisabethfung658]

Thank you! I have 3 boys that are so kind and sweet and I have always been bothered by this message as it pigeonholes all men.

[@cfrost87]

And the message doesn't acknowledge that women can struggle with lust, as well. It's not just a problem for men-- it's a problem that anyone can have.

[@cfrost87]

@@michaelespinoza7526 i think lust may be exhibited differently between men and women, as well. There may be higher rates of lust among men, but it isn't just a male sin. That's more where I was going.

[@trumpet235]

Just looking at a beautiful woman is not lust. "Just looking" at every woman's breast that passes you...is. the "well I only noticed" thing does have some fine print. Did you notice her beautiful face or did notice her boobs? I'm glad to hear you say notice a beautiful woman but maybe let's add face 😅

[@angelr9096]

Okay but what if that is our struggle though? Speaking as a woman here. What if you do have to purposely make the choice to stay faithful? It must be nice not to have those struggles. It must be nice to appreciate intimacy with your husband.

[@sarahgibbs5616]

Thank you for addressing this! You're right, the evangelical church is responsible for adding to the problem. I pre ordered the Great Sex Rescue; Can't wait to dive in!

[@amychristmas7745]

I would be curious to learn more about your data (the men-lust graph toward the beginning.) Your data suggests that while men perceive they have big lust problems they don't *perceive* they have big problems conversing with women or objectifying women. BUT...how did you conclude that? Are those also male perception of their own personal behavior? As a married-late-in-life now divorced woman (i.e. I've been on A LOT of one hit wonder dates)...just no. No way. I am an unintentional expert on this topic. Men LOVE to talk about themselves and I honestly think many don't know what it means to objectify a woman. I've talked with a lot of them. So so many.... Better said: I've listened to way too many men drone on and on about how amazing they are. And no the free drinks weren't worth it. Men aren't bad - I really don't believe that. Some are really terrific! But are they good at conversation? Nope. Do they objectify women? All the time. Your work is so important and I have so much respect for you. This data though...needs a bit more analysis. Peace and grace to you Sheila...

[@MrsScott-bx8sb]

My husband would take new female employees out to lunch. In his 99% male work environment, unfortunately, it isn't always a safe place for any women coming in, so he would be the one to keep the jerks from swooping down. He would set the example. And he always told me and would try to introduce me to these female co-workers, if possible. In church situations, I've also noticed that women who have fit into subjective guidelines as to clothing and modesty would get conversation with the male leadership, but women who dressed outside of the rules (like, gasp, jeans and a tunic top) would be ignored.

[@jamie8005]

😂😂😂 that intro!! Omg, but seriously!! That’s what that dumb book is saying.

[@serenitynownature708]

64% of 13-24 year olds watch porn at least once per week, 57% of our pastors and 64% of youth pastors struggle with or have struggled with pornography, porn sites receive more monthly traffic than Netflix, Amazon, and Twitter combined...tell me again how lust isn’t pervasive with men? Maybe there is a man who doesn’t struggle with lust to some degree, but if there is, I haven’t met him yet…This is not to say we throw our hands up and say 'that is just how we are', but saying that the problem doesn't really exist or isn't that big of an issue is not helpful in my mind

[@EveLovesGod]

Subjective reports are not the most accurate… and scriptures say every man’s and woman’s battle is the flesh. Sexual Lust is one facet… intellectual lusting… emotional lusting…are others… the title is not literally every man… just like Jesus isn’t an actual door… 🤦🏽‍♀️… why are women leading this discussion? 😂 Jesus said if just looking at another woman is fornication… are you guys going to do a survey of how many men look at another woman 😂. An actual real scientific study would literally need to have a control group and a porn group… to see if early exposure to porn would create sexual problems… yes it would… We see retroactive studies that support it.

[@luckystoller6171]

Looking is normal, ogling and drooling is disgusting.

[@bradleykimmons]

Lust is indeed most men’s battle. And there’s no way around that fact. But there is a way to heal it. Intimacy with the Holy Spirit.

[@roypage5659]

Good men often struggle with sexual urges. I personally have watched men I respected and knew who destroyed themselves in sexual sin. The latest example was a man 5 years from retirement having an affair and losing everything. We fear ourselves. We fear that we could be tempted and loose our wives, our children, out financial futures... That does not even take any account of the false accusations coming out of the "Me To" movement. Nor does it take into account the aggressive, overt, sexual invitations that flow from the promiscuous hook up culture. Or the daddy obsession of some women. I have been open with my struggles to other men and have never had anyone look at me like I was crazy. They get it and admit to being in the same boat. I hear what you are saying but I will continue to seek distance from women not my daughters or my wife. Can I look at them - yes. Can I talk to them - yes. I am still guarded. I find it off putting when you speak with such authority about what it is to be a man.

[@ea-tr1jh]

This "I am a man and you cannot understand me" is a horrible excuse. Its the same argument as "no uterus, no opinion on abortion." Firstly, there is no scientific evidence that women experience lust in a different way then men do. That is an evangelical myth thats not taught in the Bible. So the argument "you are not a man you can't understand" is unfounded. Secondly, it misses the entire point. The entire point is that ignoring women is very demeaning to them. It treats them as mere objects and not people. That is not acceptable, especially in the body of Christ. Thirdly, It doesn't work and only creates more of a problem. By practicing this tactic of ignoring them, you are affirming the sentiment that you are controlled by lust (an unbiblical teaching) and that women are dangerous sex objects to be avoided (also unbiblical). This just creates a vicious cycle. This tactic of ignoring women and never approaching them because of fear doesn't work and doesn't solve the problem; it only creates more. You have to confront the lust problem head on and learn to correct your mind whenever you list by reminding yourself that this women is a real person made in the image of God and they are not to be degraded to objects for your viewing pleasure. Shift your thought pattern. It is a well-established fact in neuroscience that the brain is plastic (changeable) and people can train themselves to think differently and alter thought patterns. There have been countless studies showing this. This is the foundation of cognitive behavioral therapy.

[@ea-tr1jh]

Where is the basis of the method you are currently using? Is it grounded in science? The Bible?

[@roypage5659]

I am not sure what you mean by "method" I am only reasoning from my life and my experiences. I am not defending the state of where we are. I am not defending the books out there. Do you question that men are afraid of yielding to their baser urges and loosing everything? Are you questioning the way the hook up culture has unleashed aggressive promiscuous women? Have you not witnessed news articles of false accusations that have happened of late? I am a man and you can understand me. However I believe that sexually there are things about men that women generally do not understand. This is caused partially because of shame and hiding of things feeding that shame. I would be interested in the survey questions because I think that there may be a blind spot in them. Maybe men don't lust in the limited way they were asking after. I have been wrong before probably even today but this is how I see it.

[@ea-tr1jh]

@@roypage5659 Method as in your method of avoiding (friendly) relationships with women other than your family members at all costs. And None of what else you said actually addressed what I said. I wasn't discussing your personal experiences, as that was not the point. And speculating that the survey results are wrong without any evidence to do so is only assuming the conclusion you want. And men being accused of crimes they didn't commit and female promiscuity are irrelevant to the point so stop changing the subject.

[@forestwizard1483]

@@ea-tr1jh thank you! I was actually feeling sick reading his comment. It is so scary and disturbing that this ideology exists.

[@matrickwurse4271]

I’m fascinated on how many giggles occurred. I felt like I was listening to a high schooler talking about sex with a professional. Outside of that, reasonable information AND I agree, the book sucks and should not be purchased. Even the “updated” book is horrible

[@LipSyncLover]

I didn't even notice the giggling. I think she has a bubbly personality and does that regardless of the topic

[@KayQhosa]

As a woman myself I am in shock that you ladies have ignored two really important facts: 1. You said, 'Nothing is going to happen" Infidelity happens! 2. We women actually dress inappropriately at times. We expose our breasts, legs and butts. Shocking! If a man chooses to ignore a woman who is exposing 80%of her breasts, praise God. Her breasts are hanging out how uncomfortable and tempting for him. What is she whining about? She wants him to look? We women expose our bodies but become upset when men stare then feel "dehumanized" when men ignore... "Look at me, no don't look at me." What do you want?? If a man chooses not to look at you, move on with life. You don't know what he's struggling with. It's not always about you. 🙄

[@WilliamsJamesEdward]

For a podcast that is supposed to be directed at men, this seems like there is no sympathy towards men. Sounds like more man bashing to me. There is a reason that this podcast is constantly being accused of being anti-male.

[@BellamyBlue]

I don't follow this at all. Women can also struggle with lust - as Sheila mentioned - but the whole point of this podcast is that most men *don't* lust, in contrast to what "Every Man's Battle" claims. Did you watch the whole thing?

[@gretaeder5996]

Even around the 20 min mark, she’s encouraging men by saying “don’t worry, lust isn’t a universal problem you’re stuck with forever. Not everyone struggles with it, therefore you can overcome it.” To me, they’re not bashing men, they’re bashing this universal teaching that is very problematic and toxic and it involves men. Some of the specific men in stories they do bring up and don’t approve of are guys who don’t deserve to be praised either, just like how they don’t praise all women (like that one author). And rude horrible people like that do exist! We can’t ignore the toxic people to save the face and be respectful of those who don’t have any problems with these issues. That doesn’t make sense. So yes they have to be straightforward and give facts so that probably doesn’t sound very sympathetic to men, but some men need to hear that because they can be problematic, just like some women can be problematic. Personally, I feel that this is a very important issue to talk about. And I’m not saying this applies to you, but in general, when people get mad and defensive at something that doesn’t necessarily cheer them on or reaffirms them, then they’re usually part of the problem. Again, I’m not trying to talk negative about you James, just a reminder and warning for everyone reading this to be humble and gracious, listening to other people’s opinions and being willing to focus on the log in your own eye. I myself have to keep track of when I’m being biased and instead be willing to see both sides. Side note, in christian settings and books, I typically see women get nagged on and given responsibilities for a lot of different stuff that doesn’t even solely involve them. So, bluntly put, it’s nice to see it not just put on us for once

[@gretaeder5996]

Oh yeah and even at the 21:00 Sheila even comments on how people think she is speaking out of line, but she believes she has a pro male message because she is reassuring men, especially those who feel so guilty for their sexuality, that they aren’t necessarily lusting and that people (both men and women) can get over their lust problem if they genuinely have one! She says christian men are usually too hard on themselves, and there are healthier ways to work on personal sins and temptations. Don’t just say “whelp I’m stuck in this sin” but work on replacing the sin with more positives things, like seeing people as image bearers of God, love and respecting them instead of just saying “stop! Don’t look! Don’t do it!” Which is how Christ taught. He didn’t tell us just what not to do like the 10 commandments, He told us what TO DO instead; positive vs negative mindset

[@WilliamsJamesEdward]

I re-watched and timed how much time Keith was given to speak. For a podcast that is supposed to be directed at men, the only man in the podcast only spoke for 5 and a half minutes with a total run time of almost an hour. Reverse the roles. Would that seem relatable to women if a bunch of men were telling women what they think? The first half did have good points to swap out bad habits for good and they did give a great example about how men can mentor women. The second half lost some of that good will. The reader response about not being looked at or talked to by 3 out of 4 men at a church that she was going to leave made the assumption of what the men were thinking and Sheila and Rebecca went right along with it. Are they mind readers? Are there any other reasons for the men's behavior? Does the woman feel hurt because she did not get the reaction that she wanted? Another thing to consider is that many men are concerned about perceptions and fall out of the MeToo movement. One effect is that everyone has become more sensitive to anything that could be considered harassment or bias. In the business world, there has been research that shows that men are uncomfortable with one on one time with women. One accusation from a woman against a man can be enough to get him fired. Men wanting another person there for meetings with women makes sense to decrease the likelihood of a false accusation or the perception of anything inappropriate. Sheila even mentioned that they were being hard on the men in the second half of the podcast. From what I have seen, even when they are giving encouragement to men in the first half, it is counterbalanced with a smack against men saying 'This is what you do to women!'

[@ea-tr1jh]

@@WilliamsJamesEdward Sheila is not telling men "what they think." She cant speak for every individual man, and thats not what her point is. Shes just taking about the fact that not all men lust. This is just a fact. No, I would not be offended at a women having a few minutes to talk on a podcast with men if they were speaking facts.

[@luckystoller6171]

"When I see a beautiful woman, I can't help it, I just start kissing them..." Donald J. Trump

[@luckystoller6171]

That's not battling lust, that's taking advantage of entitlement.