What if Palpatine WASN'T a Sith Lord and was Just a Normal Chancellor?

They say you are what you eat, but I don't remember eating the Senate
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[@Gloria-victrix99857]

Now I imagine a funny scene where the Jedi walk-in with Lightsabers armed while Palpatine is having Coffee than he spits it out in shock at seeing the Jedi with Lightsabers on. Haha

[@orionriftclan2727]

And was like "Hey we brought coffee, also the sabers where to make you think we we're going to do something"

[@andrewmeyer3599]

More like he's doing paperwork, hears the doors goes to look up to see the most influential Jedi "Ah, a surprise for all of you to-* sees them ignite their lightsabers "Oh dear"

[@holeeshi9959]

Sheev: I am the senate Jedi: not yet, Imma bring you to trial Sheev: this is extorsion. the Jedis are taking over (5 minutes later) Sheev: told ya I'm acquitted of whatever you accused me of, the Judges are on MY side Jedi: oh fuck

[@amasterofsome]

Someone should make an edit of Clone Wars 2003 when palps is sipping tea and it’s Mace Windu behind him instead of Grievous

[@laisphinto6372]

They would have fought of his royal guards, senate guards and clone shock troopers meanwhile palpatine would use a hidden getaway

[@hunterkiller1440]

The original concept for the Emperor in 1977 was supposed to just be a figurehead, the military are actually the ones in control. They were planning to parallel it to the Feudal Japan where the Empire is ruled by the Shogun and the Samurai, while the Emperor is just a worshipped diety.

[@miniaturejayhawk8702]

Then Tarkin would be the Shogun while Vader would be the Samurai.

[@fattiger6957]

That's what I read as well. Palpy was originally supposed to be a powerless puppet and kind of an idiot.

[@geetslys]

Star Wars was heavily based upon Japanese concepts such as samurai! Toshiro Mifune was actually offered the role of Obi-Wan!

[@xxvaltielxx1789]

@@geetslys Hey man, you gonna talk bout Visions?

[@corksucker]

That actually would have been sicc

[@chenli9778]

I really like the idea of "Mortal" villain that manipulate "Super" characters with nothing but cunning and brilliant.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Agreed, although they're really hard to write well compared to superpowered manipulators, according to my experience.

[@chenli9778]

@@michaelandreipalon359 Indeed, But if he or she end up by their own manipulation, it would be a interesting arc after all.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

@@chenli9778 Oh, yes, and a sadistic one at that.

[@americanknight2070]

*cough*thrawn*cough*

[@gold_leader9288]

They do a decent job with that in rebels with Thrawn

[@fattiger6957]

The original concept of Palpatine being a practically powerless figurehead would have been a pretty interesting idea. I actually would like to see that in a future Star Wars story.

[@alberto2287]

You have, Finis Valorum ;)

[@purpleemerald5299]

@@alberto2287 You mean the guy Vitiate possessed? Does it really count if he’s at least _physically_ calling the shots?

[@wildfire9280]

@@purpleemerald5299 The Chancellor before Palpatine got possessed by an ancient long-forgotten Sith Lord?

[@purpleemerald5299]

@@wildfire9280 Was this Sith Lord perhaps named “The Senate”?

[@JeanLucCaptain]

so more a Joe Biden and less THE SENATE.

[@demi-femme4821]

Imagine this scenario, but Dooku and Plagueis are the Sith, planning to use Palpatine as their Emperor. He would be their equivalent to Sate Pestage, basically. However, Palpatine then 1-ups them by getting Dooku and Plagueis killed, leaving himself to reap the rewards.

[@dreadrath]

lol, the Sith getting out-Sith'd by a non-Sith and non-force user. I like it.

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

I could totally see Sheev getting the Jedi to kill the two Sith for him by exposing them as such, probably by having the Jedi discover a plot against him.

[@hunterkiller1440]

Palpatine would've wanted Anakin to be by his side 24/7.

[@thermslusitania1151]

I don't think he would want Anakin if he was like this he wouldn't want one and Apprentice why would he need one it would only slow him down so Anakin would be a normal Jedi here

[@unolisez-5803]

@@thermslusitania1151 Why not? Chancellor Valorum sought to make friends with the Jedi because it could be beneficial. The fact that Qui Gon Jinn and Obi Wan ended up on Naboo without the knowledge of the Senate suggests that the fruits of such friendship did exist. Palpatine understands that he is not the most popular person among the Jedi, but he can try to make friends with one of them, who is the most gifted and promising. Simple friendship is valued less than the paternal relationship between Palpatine and Anakin.

[@FormerBunsenBurner]

I think it's funny how one of the main themes of Star Wars is government corruption and bureaucracy.

[@fattiger6957]

There's a lot of WW2 and the rise of Hitler in it. Lucas was born right before the war ended, so I'm sure he had a lot of influence from the war years since it would have been still in most people's minds during his youth.

[@Poppadop1]

@@fattiger6957 Conversely, the movies being a product of the 1970s, there's a lot of Cold War and Vietnam War in it, making the Empire more like the US. Remember, American Major General Smedley Butler wrote _"War is a Racket,"_ saying how he was being used as a *"high-class muscle man for Big Business"* back between the *_1900s to '30s,_* meaning since before both world wars.

[@reazonuk2362]

Its what drew me to the franchise later in my life 😄. I wasn't a star was fan as a child , it was only in my 30s as I got into politics that I took an interest in star wars. Thats why I very much enjoyed the prequel trilogy. I viewed the films 1 -6

[@captain_hammer]

@@Poppadop1 Also, I can't remember where I first saw this, but a lot of Palpetine's rise to power in Episode 3 intentionally mirrors what happened in the USA post 9/11. There is a lot of stuff about people willingly trading democracy and freedom for security and increased centralised government control ("this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause"), and Anakin's "if you're not with me, you're my enemy" line is VERY similar to part of a speech Bush gave when he announced the War On Terror ("You're either with us or against us")

[@awesomeapostolic4492]

@@Poppadop1 Precisely right, MacArthur stopped riots with tanks in those days as well. And the Battle of Blair Mountain, where Miners defended themselves against a private army hired to keep them in line, and the company called in a literal Airstrike, on protesters. If the US was ever close to breaking it was the 30's. But by sheer force the nation was kept together long enough to profit off another World War. It's insane how Trump sending troops in after the riots reminded me of this.

[@firstofficersleek9722]

In a Comic named The Star Wars Palpatine is simply the ruler of the Empire, Darth Vader is one of his generals, and neither has Force powers. And there's a Sith named Prince Valorum.

[@geetslys]

That comic's based on the first draft of Lucas' script!

[@DarkLordDiablos]

I have that comic, its a really good and interesting look at what might have been compared to what we eventually got. Saying that though you have to wondering if Lucas had any ideas for a sequel based on that first draft and what I might have been called had it been as popular as the original movie.

[@fattiger6957]

@@DarkLordDiablos I don't know if I'd call the story good. It was clear the story wasn't 100% mature yet and needed some development before we got what we did in the movies. But there were a lot of interesting unused ideas in it that I'd like to see revisited.

[@miniaturejayhawk8702]

Much of this can still be felt in a new hope to be honest.

[@ChupeTTe]

Valorum like the politician?

[@jgr7487]

Ian McDiarmid himself took a lot of time to realise we wasn't playing 2 different characters.

[@skoshman1]

Palpatine: Me?, I know who I am!. I'm the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude. You don't know what dude you are!.

[@jgr7487]

George Lucas never told it him, he had to find it out for himself.

[@Daniel-415-Ponce]

If that is true, then McDiarmid was oblivious to all the lore, the novels and the comics associated with Star Wars, because hardcore fans knew the Emperor was named Palpatine even long before George Lucas made the Prequel Trilogy films.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

@@Daniel-415-Ponce Basically this, I remember knowing he would become the emperor when Ep1 came out, however, there is a good chance Ian McDiarmid didn't pay any attention to the EU, especially if he is less of a fan (such as Mark Hamill) and saw his part merely as a job (such as Harrison Ford or Alec Guinness). While he seems to embrace the fandom more than the latter two, in his interviews he doesn't sound particularly knowledgeable about the universe itself.

[@BleachFan9891]

Palpatine was always destined to be an absolute piece of sith.

[@szczypior2714]

0:22 Jedi: You're under arrest for crimes against the Republic Palpatine: But I'm not a Sith Lord! Just corrupt! Jedi: *_Understandable, have a nice day_*

[@dustinnabil798]

Lol.

[@ashwolf2006]

Jedi: .... Wait!

[@lilthommodt]

That's pretty much how it would go, False Accusation = mistrial. Mistrial = immediate acquittal (usually) and then the accuser lose a shitload of credibility.

[@pyrosauria7444]

This was extremely eye opening to know that the story of the Republic, separatist crisis, and the Empire rise was already created even before the first film was released. And interestingly, it creates a rather new circumstance that the Sith was all but irrelevant to the entire thing. I mean the current story now shows that they had a major effect in a lot of stuff but only in regard to the details involved with the overall plot. I do have to wonder tho, was the Rebel Alliance originally suppose to be the same separatists who were against the Republic or were they still planned as the “Alliance to restore the Republic”?

[@geetslys]

They were called the Alliance to Restore the Republic from the beginning

[@pyrosauria7444]

@@geetslys Ahh...Somewhat disappointing though I guess it makes sense still.

[@wilhufftarkin8543]

@@pyrosauria7444 Originally, the clone wars were supposed to be a conflict between the Republic and some evil clone masters. The details about the antagonists, including the fact that they were separatists, wasn't established yet. Some people also speculated that the clone masters served the Empire which took over the Republic. In some early 90s EU books, there are hints to this early idea of the Clone Wars. For example, in Heir to the Empire, which takes place in 9 ABY, it is stated that Gilad Pellaeon had served in the Imperial Navy for 50 years, which would make the Empire at least almost ten years older than the events in Phantom Menace. However, back then, we didn't know when exactly the Clone Wars took place and it has been retconned that Pellaeon served in the Judicial Forces and later in the Republic Navy, before becoming an Imperial officer.

[@questworldiangreenknight7455]

Oh! I never thought of that 😳

[@Iwillone]

Funny how the separatist was practically the first Rebel Alliance

[@anne.andromeda]

Honestly, I wonder what Lucas thought Clone Wars were ment to look like, when he originally mentioned them in The New Hope

[@bingguo6172]

Idk if they planned that far ahead, might have just been throwaway line

[@jeskerjames2938]

George Lucas: "Well you see, I was thinking about a character named Jar Jar and he was going to be a part of this elite species of warrior, and he was going to be the last of his kind. So he ends up getting cloned to rebuild the species and use them in the Clone Wars. Because ya know...Jar Jar is the key to all of this."

[@geetslys]

Lucas didn't really have any plans for the Clone Wars, but in pre-Prequel Legends sources (which he would've had to sign off on) they were described as a war between the Republic/Empire and an alliance of rogue clonemasters that had armies of insane clones at their command.

[@fattiger6957]

@@bingguo6172 Yeah, I got the impression too. George Lucas doesn't seem like a world building guru who has to sit down and organize everything about his fictional world. When you read or hear interviews with him about his ideas, he seems to talk in a stream of consciousness way like his ideas haven't been organized by being put to paper. They are all floating around in his head. As a aspiring writer, I can relate to that. Before I started writing my book, I could talk about it, but it wouldn't really be in an organized manner. There were a lot of ideas that were barely more that cool, yet basic ideas.

[@ThinWhiteAxe]

@@geetslys honestly I like that we got the moral ambiguity of the Jedi/Republic/"our team" being the ones using the clone army.

[@awesomeblb3407]

I kinda like the idea that palpatine became the emperor because of his own cunning not because of him being a sith.

[@Poppadop1]

No, Palpatine's cunning is still vital to him being emperor. Just being a Sith is not enough - ask the other Sith Palpatine stepped over...

[@awesomeblb3407]

@@Poppadop1 what I mean specifically is solely relying on cunning I know he still uses his cunning

[@reazonuk2362]

Indeed. And don't forget, even as he was gaining power, although the jedi were becoming increasingly distrustful of him-they still had no suspicions he was infact a sith Lord

[@boredom2473]

He would still have a badass costume

[@geetslys]

HELL YAH!

[@chenli9778]

I actually kind of like the Original Plan for Empire. I mean Yeah what we get was good, but If Palpatine was Just a Really Brilliant and corrupted Mortal, it just give us the idea that the Evil of Empire was Not of One Villain to Blame, But the evil of Many people's Greedy and hunger for Power. Some times I felt it was more impact to find that, the Villain you thought was the Problem of everything was Not the source of all evil, But every One who evolved it has responsible.

[@fattiger6957]

Star Wars was very much influenced by WW2. While some people might think it was all due to Hitler, the whole upper echelons of Germany and most of the people supported his rise and his evil ideals. Heck before the war started, there were plenty of nazi sympathizers in other countries, even the US. I think one of the Princes of England was a nazi supporter.

[@chenli9778]

@@fattiger6957 Yeah, so in my opinion if Palpatine was Mortal these idea could get reinforced. Now it was more like he used his dark power to make every one evil (or at least for now no one in Empire is as twist and evil as himself, so it is easy to assume he was source of all evil of his era)

[@borakaraca9788]

this version of palpatine is better a sith teocracy empire using all idiot officers like tarkin thrawn yularen etc for themselves

[@drp1bb856]

I agree with another comment. Even if he wasn’t Sith, I’m sure Plagueis would still align with him like many other non force users he worked with.

[@abid5087]

Don’t tell me that George had so much planned out when he had Luke and Leia kiss then decided that they were siblings. In all seriousness, it is really interesting to see what he planned and what he changed.

[@fattiger6957]

I think sometimes people overblow how much Lucas actually had planned out. Obviously the Luke/Leia romance was written before Lucas decided they were siblings. Even Vader being Luke's dad wasn't a thing during New Hope. Obi Wan's story about Anakin was originally supposed to be true, not a disguised metaphore.

[@abid5087]

@@fattiger6957 I didn’t know that part about Vader and Obi-Wan’s story. That’s very interesting

[@rhymenoceros3303]

@@fattiger6957 Nevertheless he did have a general idea of where he wanted the story to go and what sort of themes he wanted to tackle. What made him a good writer was that he was open to changing and altering the details of his story overtime as new ideas came in.

[@kaizoisevil]

@@fattiger6957 wasn’t the original twist that Obi Wan killed Anakin?

[@tinobemellow]

In the same movie, no less. The whole "there is another" bit from Yoda and Leia sensing him, when an hour or so earlier they full-on kissed. I don't know if George was tired or high or something, but apparently, it was good enough.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

Ironically Palpatine will be consider a tragic figure in the franchise.

[@2saw]

how

[@inquisitorgarza312]

@@2saw He became a puppet of the system he once abused, and forever be a tool for his military governors.

[@censoredquotes3518]

Very interesting to think about.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

In this rendition anyway.

[@comradekenobi6908]

Ironic - Palpatine

[@arielortiz5643]

So, Palpatine is a Sith Lord, a corrupted man that uses others and in turn get used by others, but at the end of the day, at the true core of the character, one thing remains and that can be seen when Mace Windu and the other jedi goes after him in Revenge of the Sith, it is "I am the Senate" that ultimate define Palpatine. George Lucas is a genius.

[@tyrienstorm17]

*Removes palpatine as a sith lord* Darth Jar Jar "Meesa beome empereor"

[@fattiger6957]

You forgot the most important part of Jar Jar's speech: "Dellow fellagets."

[@orrorsaness5942]

Darth Plageuis after The Galactic Republic conquers the Hutt confederation like Rome defeated Carthage and takes over the rest of The Galaxy (civilized and uncivilized) like when Ceasar conquered Gaul.

[@piercepayumo4212]

If he was just a normal chancellor, the same events would still happen. Just maybe a bit different.

[@kirknay]

Probably without Maul getting the Jedi all in a tizzy, or Dooku leaving the order. That changes a frackton of events.

[@CoolMyron]

I dont think so. Palps wouldn't beable to kill the Jedi or take over.

[@fattiger6957]

I don't think he would have been able to play the Jedi. Wasn't it Palpatine who was clouding their ability to use the Force? And I highly doubt he would have been able to turn Anakin. Some people seem to forget that a lot of what Palpy accomplished was aided by his mastery of the Dark Side.

[@akl2k7]

@@fattiger6957 It sounds like in this timeline, Anakin is probably still a slave on Tattooine (no Naboo-Trade Federation crisis). Dooku may have still left the order, though who knows how much of that was Palps manipulating him. Of course, the real question is what the actual Sith were doing, or if they were still around (maybe Plaguis got a different apprentice, or they were discovered in the High Republic era and killed by the Jedi).

[@DATA-qt3nb]

What if Plagueis took on Dooku as his apprentice since he still had differences with the order and then they join with the separatists. But since Palps never created the clone army the war would be alot different.

[@HolyknightVader999]

Originally, the Emperor was just going to be some dude that was keked by Vader and Tarkin. Tarkin and Vader were meant to be the true rulers of the Empire, while Palpatine was just some political schmuck they used as a figurehead. When they made it so that Vader was Anakin Skywalker, they had to provide a reason why an honorable Jedi Knight fell to evil, so the Emperor was redesigned to be the true ruler of the Sith and Vader's superior, making him a real Emperor instead of just being a political pawn of Vader and Tarkin. He caused Anakin to fall to the Dark Side and made him into Darth Vader.

[@domenicoazzia4153]

"He was always power-angry manipulative and sociopathic, and he never truly cared about anyone other than himself. In other words, he was born to be a politician" Man, that's probably one of the most accurate description of what a politician is that I've ever heard! It truly makes you wonder that the world is already in the grasp of thousands of Palpatines.

[@giratina6665]

Politicians are only proxies for corporate rule. They don't control. Capital does

[@Daniel-fd1dh]

Honestly its not that unreasonable for Palpatine to have orchestrated the Separatists even if he wasn't a Sith Lord. I mean, he didn't really use any of his powers to do that, just manipulation.

[@TheBigExclusive]

Then Count Dooku would never have listened to Palpatine. The main reason Dooku obeyed Palpatine was because he was powerful.

[@fattiger6957]

Yeah, I don't think a Sith would listen to any mundane person, no matter how clever they are. The Sith would just Force Choke them immediately when they suspected manipulation.

[@orrorsaness5942]

@@fattiger6957 He would’ve if Plageuis still exists, and I assume he still exists.

[@Poppadop1]

Is Palpatine controlling multiple sides of the Clone Wars needed for the wars to occur? The corruption and rot within the Republic which led to someone like Count Dooku leading the Separatists would be present without Darth Sidious.

[@blitzkrieg2928]

@@fattiger6957 Like the Sith listened to Thrawn ? Vader to Tarkin ? Plagueis to Larsh Hill ?

[@jameswalker4291]

The plan came from Plagueis originally. Palps wouldn't have gotten as far as a regular politician in my belief. Manipulation of Sypho Dias and creation of the clones was best explained as is. It would make less sense as George originally envisioned. He got it right in the end imo.

[@Gyrannon]

Honestly, even as a Non-Force-User, I still could see him manipulating Maul, Dooku, Grievous, and Anakin. He still COULD study and know the ways of the Dark Side, and fool everyone. Even his master in the novel believed there was "nothing" about him, it was only through careful examination that Plageius was able to figure out he was a natural at hiding his dark side. And I could see him still initializing Order 66, but as a pre-recording upon his death.

[@myspiderungoliant]

There would have been a much different death for Palpatine had he not been a Sith. I picture it this way; Palpatine lies bleeding on the steps of the senate building, having been been stabbed repeatedly by the regional governors called for a routine meeting. As a black cloaked figure with mechanical breathing kneels beside him with the final knife, Palpatine gasps his last words: “et tu Vader?”

[@watchman0062]

Nice reference.

[@Troytotheworld]

Dude you’re videos are always amazing. You make it feel like we’re having a conversation with you. That’s talent, my dude.

[@AzraelThanatos]

You know, I kind of hoped for the revelation during Episodes 2 and 3 that they would have revealed that Palpatine hadn't become a Sith until later on. Palpatine finding out he was Force Sensitive over the course of the war and that the Jedi either never found him or viewed him as to weak combined with events during the Clone Wars and having other issues with the Sith Master deciding to play both sides there. Add the Jedi taking measures to try creating peace while Palpatine is seeing chances of victory pushing him there, him being trained during it and then having him using Anakin to take on the Master and become his apprentice there.

[@antiochus87]

Personally I prefer this version for multiple reasons. 1. The fact Palpatine is a sith undermines a lot of the points about the Republic being corrupt and rotting from within as it makes it too easy to point at someone who's comically evil to the point it's over the top. 2. I never found the whole clones, droids and sith of the prequel trilogy convincing based on the established technology level of the original trilogy, so this grounds it more. 3. Having the emperor be an all powerful dictator also undermines any critiques it makes on the Empire re the nature of evil, authoritarianism and exploitation. In the real world these things usually come from oligarchies which pose as something else and are made up of corporate and military interests. E.g. The Empire of Japan, the British Empire, the American Empire. 4. It makes it seem all too easy to defeat evil: you just need to defeat one guy. A hydra is more accurate and a more compelling enemy. Even the Roman Empire, which is commonly used as a model was really built during the Roman Republic, which relatively few territories conquered during the Empire.

[@Deadpool-bf5fw]

Wasn’t Emperor Palpatine meant to be originally called Xerxes the 11th, showing as a Descendent of a dynasty who had been ruling the galaxy for centuries in the earliest drafts of ANH

[@derrickstorm6976]

He might not destroy the Jedi Order? Unless Plagues would still manipulate him into doing that as Chancellor, since he would still probably stage a war to become a Chancellor and Emperor, and even without manipulation Palps would still realise the Jedi could figure out his plot?

[@Engine33Truck]

The Clone Wars without Sith interference would’ve likely been considered the Galactic Civil War and would’ve been on a smaller scale

[@NYG5]

If Palpatine was a regular mortal then it makes sense for him to build the Empire around a massive conventional military with superweapon projects, where Vader can't just kill him behind his hordes of troops. Plus, going off the first movie it seems like they weren't trying to portray force users as so all powerful. He could have enticed Vader to join him in his coup but because Vader gets wrecked on Mustafar he's never powerful enough to kill the normal Palpatine without the entire Imperial military killing him.

[@holeeshi9959]

if Palpatine isn't a sith, someone will be.....someone like Anakin skywalker, trained directly by darth plaguis, and works to corrupt the Empire.

[@Imperfect_man_]

Weirdly wholesome

[@oscarjacquot]

Do you know what I really wish: That Darth Sidious was Palpatine's twin brother

[@yamilmendez8056]

This alternate story seems very interesting and a little just little more dark than what we got. I mean in the end palpatine was not in control but those that he appointed were in control. I don't know why (maybe it's because I love the character of palpatine) but it seems much darker that the self proclaimed emperor in the end was manipulated by the very people he appointed. And it seems like a darker version of star wars, the jedi exterminated, a useless war that wrecked havoc across the galaxy , the self proclaimed emperor became nothing more than a tool for other people to use and the galaxy entered into a feudal like system between the different imperial governors. It's not a very good assessment that I made but I think I got my point across.

[@sean668]

It does seem a it more grimdark, maybe because it’s a more grounded situation than “evil space wizard infiltrates government.” It seems like a more dreary dystopia

[@yamilmendez8056]

@@sean668 yep

[@NewDealChief]

Lmao that thumbnail just screams "Sir Sheev Palpatine, Prince of Naboo, 1st Duke of Coruscant."

[@LuccianoBartolini]

6:50 that sounds like how the French king Phillipe killed the Templars.

[@duphasdan]

The original description of the emperor sounds an awful lot like what the emperor of Japan had to go through during WW2.

[@JustRedBed]

Jedi walk in Poster said, “SITH LORD HERE!”

[@tsunamifoxy]

*Who needs to be a **-king-** Sith Lord, when you can be **-a God-** The Senate?*

[@unaiestanconapelaez2526]

The interesting thing is that in this universe I could very easily see the republic being the ones using a droid army

[@tinobemellow]

I swear to God, the visual of Palpatine wearing European royal regalia is worthy of its own plotline.

[@sa25-svredemption98]

So the original version was more realistic: a true political thriller based in another galaxy, rather than a wholly supernatural space opera? Not that I dislike the final version, but I think the original idea would have been so much better! I mean, look at how the Third Reich came to power, and why it was that such a rigid, autocratic political group obtained so much support! Much as in this theoretical Star Wars universe, it was the failure of the republican system, and the external pressures mostly based on the Treaty of Versailles, that brought the Nazis to power, and even why it took so long for extensive opposition to arise. For many, it was a while before they realised the political significance of what the Nazis stood for, and what was being established. A look at George Orwell, with his original support for the Spanish Republicans over the monarchists and nationalists in Spain: in the course of that war, he saw the distinction between claims and the realities of ideology. Hence, many of his writings caution the extremely of the left (communism/militant socialism) over the right (fascism and insular nationalism). Hence, the finale of Animal Farm is of the pigs (communist) and the people (fascist) socialising, and the farmyard animals (the grass roots population) looking in, unable to distinguish between the two. If this theoretical Star Wars plot had been implemented, it would have such strong parallels to that situation as to be unmistakable! Indeed, one of the saddest things is the reluctance these days to read the old Latin and Greek texts on philosophy, especially relating to governance and politics. Reading Julius Caesar as to the how's and why's of what he did, or reading about Augustus (Octavian) Caesar and the why's and how's for him. If we still read such works, including Plato and Cicero; if we still studied the philosophy of human nature and the requirements of the state! But, alas, such topics are left to students of history, rather than students of law or politics today! Indeed, the role of philosophers and theologians has been discarded to almost complete irrelevance to the west, and I think that it is a point highlighted in many works, including Star Wars! If this storyline had been published, I think the parallel would have been unmistakably clear!

[@Elyseon]

The Caesars were every bit as evil and psychotic as Palpatine.

[@masonharvath-gerrans832]

Indeed, but then it wouldn’t be as much Star Wars as a story about world history… in space. And you hold the classics in far too high esteem. While it should be appreciated what they said, and especially with the philosophers (so we can see what they got right and wrong), it’s no good thing to deify them. I don’t need Plato to understand the functions of a modern republic, and I certainly don’t need his critiques to understand what needs work

[@sheevpalpatine2128]

Thank you for covering this subject, he's the most important one in the Star Wars universe.

[@Org13fan1]

I think Palpatine would have pretended to be a Sith, working with Dooku to prop up the idea that the Sith were returning, only for it to be on big lie orchestrated by the two to through the Jedi off their game (till palatine used Anakin to get rid of him) and then used the attack on his office to frame the Jedi and turning Anakin to his side so he could have a powerful inforcer before wiping out the order to get them out the way of his conquest.

[@orrorsaness5942]

Plageuis would then do something similar in the sequels, but this time, Plageuis directly controls (occupies) the entire Galaxy.

[@joeford5181]

Palpatine: So it's treason then. I'll see in court master Jedi.

[@jonmcgee6987]

Here's a few questions I have for this time line. Did he ever meet and work with Hego Damask? Did he delete his family in this time line as well? I'm having some doubts if he be elected Chancellor without the help he had as a Sith and Hego Damask.

[@maxxor-overworldhero6730]

Most certainly. After all, his family already knew that he was killing small animals at a young age, and quite frankly as much power and influence as his family could use to hide that, it wouldn't have been enough to hide those tendencies once he was in office. Damask was crucial to his development into _that_ much of a skillful deceiver.

[@G59forlife.]

More importantly- did he ever meet with Joe?

[@MasonGreenWeed]

@@G59forlife. Yes, you

[@Ganonsmork]

That would be interesting if he wasn't a sith.

[@magicaljagical647]

Clone Army was created by Sifo-Dyas, with out Sith interference, the army would function to its proper role.

[@preyasmanthedemopan2854]

Born to be a politician eh well, he DID give the Gungan eggs over to the school hot lunch program.

[@davidfernandes7109]

You should do more of these what if videos. The possibilities are endless!

[@warlordofbritannia]

I wonder if The Old Republic MMO purposefully played off this idea-having a distant, largely uninvolved (Sith) Emperor who basically allows the Moffs (and Dark Council) to run the Empire while he does his own thing (like achieve immortality via galactic genocide).

[@zexalbrony4799]

So even if he wasn't a Sith the Empire would still form. You know, when you say stuff like this it feels like it undermines everything characters like Fives and others went through in an attempt to stop the rise of the Empire, like no matter what it wouldn't have stopped despite how hard they were trying to prevent it. I guess that means the Butterfly theory doesn't work in Star Wars, since apparently, even a small change wouldn't stop what was coming.

[@ddpzzp553]

is more like the event were in motion plagueis was plottign to take the republic anyway

[@marcusblackwell2372]

I would like to see this in a Legends multiverse

[@supremeleadergnkdroid3202]

There’s quite a few vids on KZbin. Really interesting

[@djw7924]

I wonder what would happen if they were two different people

[@Farlomous]

i liked the concept of it when I first read the original trilogy back in the day, but then seeing the prequels and McDiarmid's mannerisms and sneakiness made me like his version better. i think if Lucas wouldn't have gone with the whole disfigurement concept so early on then I think it would have worked better. I like the idea of Palps appearing to be outwardly likeable, but with the evil behind the curtains true self he portrays in Return of the Jedi. If he would have started delving deeper into the Dark Side a few years after the end of the Clone Wars and started to more rapidly get more disfigured, it would have been a better plot point.

[@WhatsThePointPicture]

What if Palpatine wasn't a Sith lord and was just a normal politician? Well... then he'd still be just as evil.

[@idigamstudios7463]

Kinda prefer this version, where the galaxy doesn't revolve around the space wizards and stops turning when they're off screen.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

"Lord Vader" was originally just General Vader, and his life support system was just a space suit.

[@FredIsTheQueen12]

Also even if Palpatine wasnt a sith lord, Sifo-Dyas did want the clones to be made so even with no driod there would be atleast some clones.

[@SephirothRyu]

Naturally, if he wasn't one, it would be Jar Jar instead.

[@kevinquiroz5384]

It would be interesting to see a timeline where one of Sidious' schemes failed and he died before the Battle of Naboo or during the Clone Wars

[@novallasca4730]

idk dude but seeing palpatine on a military like uniform (on the thumbnail) is kinda cool like some kind of Prussian officer.

[@mill2712]

Nah his uniform would be greyer or blacker for it to pass as Prussian.

[@xTK421x]

Sith Lord and Diabolical Architect of the Clone Wars (or at least set it all up to hand over as "Ready to serve! Just add Sith!" ) Plagues: Dear narrator: "Give a Mune a bone mate!" "I, get no respect."

[@hondaibonzai6575]

"Master Windu, I'm afraid you've fucked up."

[@jaredwilliams4794]

I’m kinda glad he was just a little senator, then empire ruler as a sith. Obviously not public but I like that politics was the ultimate evil

[@szczypior2714]

Actually, if Palpatine wasn't a Sith Lord, he might not have risen to the position of the Chancellor, as Plagueis still is a Sith Lord and thus his grand plan can still be fulfilled. He would probably find a different apprentice and would still want to take over the Reoublic Senate. My guess would be that Plagueis would turn Dooku to the Dark Side, as they knew each other (non Sith-wise) and Plagueis most likely recognized and valued his skills as one of the most powerful Jedi of his generation. Dooku was also perfectly fit for a high political position such as the Chancellor, obviously since he was the leader of the Separatists. I think that if Palpatine wasn't a Sith Lord the Grand Plan would still happen, tho how things would play out is anyone's guess

[@EloiFL]

Now, what if Chancellor Bismarck was a Sith Lord? I mean, he orchestrated a number of wars, forged an empire... just imagine him with force lightning. Wizard.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

GEORGE LUCAS: I AM THE SENATE, ALL HAS TRANSPIRED ACCORDING TO MY DESIGN!

[@vladtheimpalerofficial]

4 jedi masters entered to arrest 1 sith that day but instead of 4 jedi and a sith leaving the room 2 sith left that room that day.

[@myleswelnetz6700]

Or if he was just like any other ordinary politician.

[@maxtermind5110]

Palpatine was always the Senate! Even before he was a sith.

[@pyeitme508]

Good theory 🤔, at least better than the silly moustache Austrian who couldn't become a painter (not artist). 😂

[@kirknay]

Don't scorn an artist. A terrible painter will burn half the planet for it.

[@pyeitme508]

@@kirknay welp true 😅

[@acegabrielcruz3687]

Darth Plaguise will start the clone wars but without Palpatine there he will go to Tatooine and find the young Anakin and train him while the trade federation will have it's victory over Naboo

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

Anakin was also supposed to have a Jedi who died a war hero during the Clone Wars and he and Vader were supposed to be two separate individuals. Actually, if the original Palpatine was a figure head who was, in truth, being used corporate powers and such, does that imply he was also supposed to have redeeming qualities? I mean, he was probably supposed to be defeated, anyway, as another commenter on here mentioned the original story was supposed to be like Feudal Japan, where the military rules and the Emperor is worshipped as an unseen god who resides in the shadows. If someone takes down their god, how can an Empire continue?

[@orrorsaness5942]

Get a new god, a son of Palpatine. It’s canon that Palpatine had/has a harem, no?

[@tysonvassar7609]

BRUH YOUR INTRO BROUGHT BACK PS2 BATTLEFRONT MEMORIES😱😱

[@crazyviking24]

I think the only real difference would be that militaristic figures like Tarkin would have been the real power behind the Chancellor rather than taking orders from him.

[@mangofett927]

It's very likely that Palpatine would have been working with the sith, and his position of emperor would have been the public face of a Sith shadow government. That likely would be one of the only ways that the clone army and droid armies would still be factors in the clone wars.

[@joeswanson5693]

If Disney makes a Star Wars what if show them this original concept should be put into light.

[@marystone860]

Hmm, if he wasn't a Sith Lord, Darth Plageius wouldn't have been killed by Palpatine, also, it would have been interesting to see what would have transpired between him and Dooku, also Maul! Since Palpatine would have become Emperor anyway, would Plageius have killed him and taken everything? Would Plageius have enacted Order 66, or tried to recruit as many of the Force-Sensitives as possible? Because that's what Dooku wanted to do, instead of killing almost all of them. Would a full-blown duel between Plageius and Dooku been great to see, or just stupid. There are so many little things that would have changed the bigger picture in their own way, if at all.

[@maaderllin]

I actually like this idea more because it actually represents Lucas' idea of "How democracy falls" better. They fall because people or groups of people take advantage of economical and cultural contexts to amass power, not because of some overarching plot created by one special man that orchestrated the elements leading to its fall from A to Z.

[@awesomeblb3407]

The separatists would probably commit less war crimes without duku or grievous

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodsc1447]

tbh, I don't think much would have changed at all. if Palpatine was as manipulative as he is in cannon. he probably could have still played both sides of the war, secretly got the clone army commissioned, and turned the public against the jedi. the only difference would just be his lack of force powers and a lightsaber

[@zackcross7190]

George Lucas originally based Palpatine on Richard Nixon. Makes sense that he would draw that parallel given the time Star Wars was written.

[@MariaCorrea-mr2gy]

I mean, for most of the story Palpatine's force abilities are non used. Even the clone wars, they could have raised both armies without force powers, just with a hateful sect with tyranus, sidious and his master in it. After all, Palpatine was simply smart

[@redeye4516]

It's sort of funny that the Empire was always portrayed as being the natural end state of the Republic, since that's pretty much how it goes in real life as well. Sure, a lot of it was more easily based on Hitler's rise to power in the Weimar Republic, a nation so utterly terrible at its conception that it was probably going to be overthrown by that time no matter what (seriously, they had several different rebel factions taking over parts of the country and declaring themselves independent from the beginning, and the government could do little about them because of military restrictions from the Allies in the previous war). However, that same formula of an elected leader becoming a dictator is as old as Caesar's rise to power in Rome. The Republic becomes corrupt to the point it can't be saved anymore and a dictator takes over, usually to the rapturous applause of the people who were sick of government corruption starving them and ruining their lives. That's exactly what happened with Rome as well, the Consuls were rigging most electoral processes and Senators were hoarding emergency grain supplies meant for the people during a huge famine. Caesar conquering Gaul was also a widely popular move not in spite of but because of its brutality, the Romans had lived in fear and enmity of the Gauls because Gallic tribes would lead raids on Rome in the past, which was the justification for their large military in the first place. Hitler really is the odd one out because normally Republics get this way after a few hundred years at the least, whereas the Weimar state only existed for a little more than 20 years. However, the way it was set up from the start was the natural state of a decayed Republic rather than a healthy natural one, something it's creators didn't really think of, nor probably cared about at the time since it was mostly a big "fuck you" to the losing side of World War 1 in true late 19th-early 20th century fashion.

[@akumakami64]

I wonder what Vader's full story was going to be in the original version? It's obvious the man can kill every in that room of "the true rulers" aka the Moffs, so it makes you wonder why that version of Vader had thrown his lot in with the Empire.

[@robertoguevara2635]

DUDE! KOTOR IS HAVING A REMAKE!!!

[@lukez9721]

If Palpatine never became darth sidious, then darth Binks would be free to conduct his plan more openly

[@Prauwlet213]

7:12 Makes sense tbh, given that the clone wars are mentioned in episode 4.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

3:39 the separatists might still of had battle droids, just because they don't outright support the CIS doesn't mean the CIS couldn't purchase a smaller number of battle droids. also centralisation is often a bad thing in real life wars, it leads to inefficiencies. also also its more realistic that the separatists would fight a forever war against the republic/empire, as they wouldn't just give up. the long supply lines across the galaxy would be vulnerable and there is just too much space to guard.

[@badgamemaster]

The Republican is just like a real world Republican that turned Empire.

[@wizard_of_poz4413]

What

[@MasonGreenWeed]

@@wizard_of_poz4413 fall of Roman Republic

[@Josh_Hammond]

I always knew or heard that Lucas had planned the star wars films from the star but then started changing stuff while working on said films thus why he did 4,5, and 6.

[@unolisez-5803]

Palpatine: corrupt, sociopathic, ambitious, evil man Video title: Palpatine is just a Normal Chancellor Oh poor Republic

[@maxis2k]

I said when Phantom Menace came out that the best story point would be if Palpatine was just a senator and somehow got all the Jedi to fight (and eventually exterminate) each other, while using their civil war to take power for himself. This would not only be great that a non force sensitive was able to defeat the force sensitive beings but it would also make the force more special and humanize the Jedi. Of course, I knew at the time that it couldn't turn out that way because it was already established he was a dark Jedi (later known as Sith). But just saying, it would have been the best plot point in all of Star Wars if it had happened that way.

[@MerkhVision]

So he was basically Caesar turning the Roman Republic into the Roman Empire. I know that was probably the inspiration for the story anyway, but it would be even more obvious if Palpatine wasn’t a Sith Lord.