What if Saruman Took the One Ring? Theory

Saruman is a secondary antagonist in Lord of the Rings; but if he claimed the One Ring, he would've been all the more deadly. Enjoy the video and let me know your thoughts in the comments down below! Thank you all so much as always! A great thanks to the online artist whose visual works have made this video possible. If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description! Thank you all!
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[@sonokawaray]

Y'know, with all that knowledge swimming around in Super-Saruman's head you'd think he'd know from Numenor's example that keeping Sauron around as an advisor is probably a bad idea.

[@devonwooten170]

sonokawaray that is an excellent point!

[@similaritiesendhere]

He'd have no choice. He could not destroy Sauron while the ring was intact and Sauron would be in his head as long as he bore the ring. The ring isn't simply Sauron's power. The ring IS Sauron and most of his power/corruption is Melkor's.

[@vdmur7952]

@@similaritiesendhere exactly

[@maxmercer1931]

Well, Sauron knew the marred nature of Arda best. Sauron also had the most experience with the psychologies of Men and how to dominate them.

[@maxmercer1931]

It's unfortunate Gandalf abandoned the Fellowship

[@samwisegamgee8318]

The main problem with this is i'd never let those filthy uruks get to frodo

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

Stupid fat hobbit

[@thranduilvampyrelvenkingor4392]

Samwise Gamgee Keep him close

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

+Thranduil VampyrElvenking Oropherion Stupid Elf!

[@DutyJames]

Stupid sauron in your stupid armour

[@sammcvey6245]

Stupid fat hobbit.

[@epicfailurecz2083]

I get the feeling that everything is going way too smoothly for Saruman. For instance I don't think that Aragorn would just surrender without a fight or that Gandalf would still try to reason with Saruman.

[@MenoftheWest]

That’s a very fair point. I believe Gandalf would’ve realized he could not beat Saruman with strength-of-arms and Aragorn would’ve lost much of his courage and will to refuse Saruman, knowing it would spend his men’s lives (in my opinion at least). But again, I definitely see where you’re coming from!

[@matheusarruda6462]

I agree. I think Gandalf would at least beat back the Nazgûl like he did on Weathertop.

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

+Men of the West I think that Saruman even with the ring will lose against either free peoples or Sauron

[@lvd8122]

Dark Lord Sauron only if they join forces, and what then? Sauron would take control of sarumans forces, and destroy the weakened men, who fight at his side.

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

+Isenskjold D MY side, yes

[@glenndavis5695]

What if THE BALROG got the ring?

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

He would give it to Me

[@glenndavis5695]

Dark Lord Sauron I don't know. Balrogs are tricky creatures.

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

+Glenn Davis They will give it to me

[@glenndavis5695]

Dark Lord Sauron ... OK ...

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

Good to see that people fear Me.

[@redcloud16]

YEEEES, Sauron plays the long game, and Morgoth is unleashed. I loooooove it!

[@gargoyles9999]

redcloud16 Then Tulkas hits Morgoth with the People's Elbow

[@Carandini]

Except Sauron wouldn't want Morgoth to return. The servant has outgrown the need of his master.

[@marcovchb]

Too far fetched

[@Floral_Green]

You love to see it

[@onemanarmy2electricboogalo687]

If anything i think saruman would master the ring before that also why would sauron summon morgoth lol

[@ohdannyboy4727]

Makes sense, if anyone of power gained the ring. It would herald Dagor sooner. As the Valar would not let their creation be completely dominated by Sauron, Saruman, or Mor­goth himself.

[@vdmur7952]

yep

[@tylersoto7465]

Morgoth will reign supreme

[@SCScholar1]

You did a wonderful job with this one. I like how Sauron used the tactics he did with the numenoreans.

[@w-james9277]

"The ring answers to Sauron alone. It has no other master!"

[@arunroy9997]

That's for mortal.....did u Remember Gandalf told if the ring is in hands of someone with immerse powers ....they will take the place of dark lord

[@Jay_76]

Beings of immense power, like Saruman, Gandalf, and Galadriel, could take control of the One Ring. Galadriel foresaw what she _could_ become if she took the ring from Frodo(Instead of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen...). Gandalf saw similar images when Bilbo offered him the ring as well.

[@arvidbjoerk5307]

@@Jay_76 the only one who could defeat sauron is Gandalf. (if he possess the one ring) Tolkien stated that he was thee only one powerfull enough but Saruman and galadriel could take possession of it but it wouldn't help if he/she faced sauron one on one

[@NorMarkus]

@@arvidbjoerk5307 If she faced him one on one yes. But it's more likely that Galadriel would've had massive armies with her if she got the Ring

[@r.alexander9075]

@@Jay_76 i dont know why you bring up galadriel in the same sentence as maiars... Galadriel is slightly weaker than even the weakest maiar, whereas gandalf and saruman rank among the strongest of their race. Galadriel has a ring from which she has power, and from being and Noldur a little too. Gandalf serves Manwe, an overpowered maiar and commands a group of valarian eagles.

[@jaketheberge1970]

What if Frodo never left the Fellowship with Sam? As in the group stayed together.

[@MenoftheWest]

Jake Theberge Very Interesting! That would be a fun video to make! Ultimately, I think there would’ve been so many military loses for the Free Peoples in Rohan and Gondor that I’m not sure the Ring would be destroyed... I’ll keep thinking about this idea. I’ll make sure this theory happens!

[@tazzerdevil98]

one likley possibility is they would have never learned of the cave through the mountains to get into the lands of mordor and would have likley fell at the black gate where the final battle for the ring would have been played

[@d00m0racl3]

Nay, Nay I say!, thoust forget that both Gandal & Aragorn had previous knowledge of the cirith ungol pass & what lay in wait there.

[@tazzerdevil98]

Gus Bernal they may have known of the cave and what waited there, they may never had tried. Or frodo and sam could have slowed the party enough that the tracks left by merry and pippin were removed and they never find gandalf the white

[@jaketheberge1970]

tazzerdevil98 Gandalf probably would have found them eventually regardless. A Wizard is never late. He arrives precisely when he means to you smartass Hobbits!

[@darksavant3571]

We come, we come with roll of drum: ta-runda runda runda rom!To Isengard!Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone;Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone,We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door;For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war!

[@darksavant3571]

One of my favorite moments the martch of the ents!!!

[@Raistlin__Majere]

Great story and great narration! Your videos are awesome!

[@zonefreakman]

Rad Russ Funny seeing you here. I see we have common interests brother.

[@Floral_Green]

Didn’t expect to see you here, Russ

[@jacobymt]

That was fantastic. You are a great storyteller. Really enjoyed this episode Men of the West.

[@MenoftheWest]

jacobymt Thank you!

[@jonathongoulding9780]

Honestly I look forward to the end of the videos with the nice music and discussion of Tolkien's world and the meaning behind it. It is calm, soothing, and leaves me feeling pretty happy with life! Thank you!

[@ToddTheTolerable]

What if Saruman never betrayed the Free Peoples? Or What if he had a change of heart sometime before the end of The Two Towers?

[@Historyfan476AD]

sauron played the long game and saved the world in a way. never thought I would say sauron saved the world.

[@MenoftheWest]

Madman Loves Power That’s very true haha. I think Sauron believed Melkor could return him some of his power, and rather than see his Ring in the hands of another, he hit the self-destruct button for Arda in a way. But he didn’t know that evil would lose, so he really renewed and did save this universe.

[@Historyfan476AD]

I bet sauron was getting mocked by all the other maiar for helping good win in the end. well that is if he is also reborn into the new universe and has memories of the old universe.

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

+Madman Loves Power *Cough

[@bobby4tw]

Sauron or Saruman? I'm confused

[@Historyfan476AD]

@@bobby4tw Sauron.

[@tysonmccorkle1036]

Another great vid Yoystan! And the idea of Sauron making Saruman start Dagor Dagorath is so insane! Keep up the amazing work!

[@erick-gd7wo]

When you speak as Saruman, i can sense Christopher Lee's voice. Your speech rhythm was so similar. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@erikrounds]

Thanks for the video! I always enjoy these what-if stories.

[@connielewis3623]

This was incredible. You're writing is wonderful and the music was beautiful and wrenching.

[@shoolroyq1055]

A very interesting twist on the fate of Middle Earth. Really enjoyed this video like the others. Can't wait for the Celebrimbor video since I have become more intrigued with him since the Silmarillion and the Shadow games.

[@A7xFo]

Oh great. Another LOTR wannabe thinking Shadow games were remotely accurate.

[@bend553]

Can you do. "What if a orc got the one ring" if that's possible.

[@traezor3753]

It would have just been given to sauron or saruman, depending on whose orc got it. It might have tried to use it, but it couldn't do any more with it than the hobbits could.

[@JRRToIkien]

The orcs all serve sauron, the ones at isengard were like rentals lol

[@achaosspacemarine5140]

Most orcs don't truly serve anyone. They just obey out of fear of their dark masters.

[@ottovonoof]

An orc wouldn't be capable of using it or becoming the next dark lord. It could be lost again as they might fight over it.

[@SuperSongbird21]

Maybe Sauron's essence would've overwhelmed said orc's mind (just like he was possibly trying to do with Frodo's, but way faster), taken over his body and effectively allowed Sauron to be reborn?

[@ianhubbard4954]

I've watched a good few of your videos and I must say you've made the films so much better , now I know more about some of the main characters, thanks a lot bro

[@thegeminidk]

Imagine an alternate ending in the films based on this. Amazing.

[@jessehilton1337]

LOVE your videos. Your passion for Tolkien’s work is just oozing in your vids and it makes them so compelling. One of the very best Tolkien channels on the entirety of KZbin. Please keep up the great work, for all our sakes :)

[@rorydonaldson2794]

Yes. Such a great idea. Love the video!! Thanks so much for the awesome content. I'll never get tired of your channel.

[@thugli4328]

Really great narration, I got so immersed. Mde me lose track of 15 minutes like it were 15 seconds. This is the gold standard of lore videos

[@TheMerc1993]

You're next What if should be either What If Kili and Fili had Survived or What If Thorin Survived. Other suggests are What If Gollum redeem himself, What If Saurman never joined Sauron, What If Isildur survived the ambush of orcs, or What If Deagol killed Smeagol.

[@captcorajus]

I have to say your reasoning, and knowledge of Tolkien lore is astounding. Time after time, as you progressed through your narrative, I found myself shaking my head yes... 'yep, that makes sense' time again. Very enjoyable narration, and your character vocalizations are pretty darn good too! Thanks!

[@lvd8122]

What about Tom bombadil? He seems to love nature, and we all know what saruman does to nature.

[@Wjong459]

yeah i think he would destroy Saruman with ease

[@SuperSongbird21]

I think Saruman would've been clever and destroyed Bombadil's realm slowly, a small piece at a time, so Bombadil wouldn't realise what was happening until it was too late. Even if Bombadil then decided to make a move against Saruman he wouldn't be any more than a minor annoyance because Saruman's power would be so overwhelming by now.

[@ludvigiversen5855]

Isenskjold What if the ring came to Bombadill!

[@jimmyboy131]

It did come to Bombadil. Frodo and the hobbits stayed with him in his house for a night while they were on their way to Bree to meet up with Gandalf. Bombadil held the ring, looked at it closely, knew exactly what it was, but had zero interest in it. He then gave it back to Frodo as if it was any ordinary ring. The ring has no effect on Bombadil at all.

[@theplayasclub5948]

jimmyboy131 Yup & he even wore the ring which had no effect lol.

[@stevesmith9447]

Awesome take on it. Totally didn't see that coming. Was grumbling about "Sauron would never bow to a lesser being" but of course he would if it meant restoring Melkor. Yikes. I love the channel and recommend it to all my Lotr friends.

[@TheFamousDaniel]

Wow! Definitely loved this, i love these theories a lot, this one is one I’ve thought of a few times, you did such a good job!

[@das250725]

Amazing job, this is about how I would imagine it would be. Grand job

[@manicmechanic1881]

how terribly awesome Yoystan such a incredibly dark version

[@NickSibz]

Dude...this was absolutely amazing. Great story, thoroughly enjoyed it. Would love more vids like this.

[@Integer_Overload]

This is definitely one of your greatest videos! Loved it!

[@mralfpit]

Thank you for making this, this is my favourite video of yours so far! Keep it up! I want more of these! :)

[@lucasslager1103]

Nice video ;), i really love to see a video about the haradrim and the corsairs in the future.

[@FLuZzyiE]

I've always imagined if a wizard got the ring, they'd be freed of their handicap, they wouldn't lose their powers while also amplifying them. In Saruman's case, his voice controllong anyone, or extremely manipulating the weather

[@bucketman3095]

Wow. The narration is absolutely amazing!

[@megalaxmax9979]

I haven't actually read the book and until I remembered that this was a fantheory, thought you were quoting the book. I was really confused and was astonished at how different the movies were (especially Sam getting captured). Nice work.

[@chrisperry8636]

That was awesome! Great job- really enjoyed that

[@tathemrelag3123]

Yay, my recommendation! Thanks!

[@smemzy]

Amazing job! I am happy to see that you are growing as a channel, it is well deserved!

[@thorsyer9201]

Love this video man keep up this amazing work/videos

[@user-vt2kw7ro9w]

3:50 Great Aragorn sketch, very beautiful!!!

[@WestNorf]

thank you for your videos been great watching and learning

[@rolfdrechsel7607]

i LOVE your theories, they almost sound like you just read the original books and i really like how you explain your thoughts that go into your theory. Have a great Day and Keep on doing what you´re doing

[@Evenstar213]

Yeah, I was expecting Valar intervention and I got served. Thanks bruh, that's awesome. Subscribed

[@AtaMarKat]

What if Lobelia Sackville-Baggins got the ring?

[@Den.Vos.Reynaerde]

She would be the most malicious of Karens...

[@tylersoto7465]

What if Justin beiber got the ring lol

[@rhydianruns]

@@Den.Vos.Reynaerde lol

[@vanitasnuin-giliath9838]

This was awesome, well done mate!

[@IanCombs1337]

I love this hypothetical. I don’t think the One Ring would ever betray Sauron though. “They are one and the same”

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

it didnt. it was working with him all along to unleash Morgoth

[@trekstarsam2494]

@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Maybe, but Sauron wanted to be lord of middle earth, and though of course served Melkor faithfully when he was around, due to not having the power to oppose him, I don't think he would want morgoth released so he could return to simply being his chief lieutenant.

[@Matli1804]

@@trekstarsam2494 I think he would freed him if it was the only option he had left if he can’t have middle earth no one can

[@sammcvey6245]

You REALLLYYYYY need to do a series. Like do several parts to a story like this. Please. It’s really awesome

[@saintsrowandmasseffect4lif825]

God this channel is fantastic plz do a '' what if aragorn had taken the one ring'' theory

[@andrewbaughman5379]

keep the what ifs coming please! well done sir.

[@phxbillcee]

Interesting theory. Great videos, thanks!

[@darthstarkiller6605]

What if Aragorn succumbed to the temptation of the ring and took it for himself?

[@jippolito8059]

He would likely meet the same fate as Isildure.

[@A7xFo]

Shitty question. He would've met his end just like Isildur. That's basic LOTR knowledge. Get a different hobby.

[@GameKvasir]

Not a shitty question kzbin.info/www/bejne/r17PoZaYd5Z9fLc (yes i know im late, still i wanted to reply to the question)

[@fortnitenostalgia5707]

Great video with good concepts!

[@whtbobwntsbobget]

Men of the West is such an amazing channel! This alternative story was so great I listened to it thrice in a row!

[@ryangr9833]

I love this! Amazing and epic alternative lotr stories! :D

[@nspcrazy1122]

You forget that the One Ring Of Power has a mind of lts own. Whichever of Saruman's troops captures lt will get corrupted & thus not bring lt back to him. He would have to capture lt himself, but then lt would corrupt him. Also keep in mind the fact that the Ring wants to return to Sauron, lts one true master. It did everything in lts power to prevent Frodo & Isildur from destroying lt, which succeeded. It was only defeated by Frodo holding Gollum's treacherous promises to the Ring. In essence, the Ring defeated ltself. There is also the fact that Eru Illuvatar intervened, so the victory was predestined.

[@russellduguesclin2001]

What a fantastic version of events, well done

[@briana208]

Best video on lotr I've ever seen:)) thanks for making these videos

[@homursumpsen8748]

This video was amazing! Im so happy to see your channel grow :D

[@vercingetorixavernian8978]

These theories are amazing!!! I’m an intermediate Tolkien fan.... but even for me..... I ripped a bong hit.... and felt like I was watching a NEW Tolkien movie for the FIRST TIME...!! It’s so thrilling to listen to I salute not only your Tolkien knowledge but your storytelling!!

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

Love this video Yoystan the What if scenario if Sarumon had claimed the One has always facnated me though I am glad it never happened but it still is a facnateing concept to me as with all Middle Earth what if scenarios and thanks so much for explaining this one so well you have such great storytelling and I love the little twist you put with that Sauromon made Dagor Dagoroth actually happen because Sauron once again (in a sense) deceive all anyway love this video an can't wait for the next one!!!!!! :)

[@ponline3170]

Luke Skywalker the 2nd fascinated

[@j.g.9045]

I don't know how this is one sentence.

[@Bobba8590]

Luke had a stroke.

[@fizzplease6742]

I love listening to you telling these stories.

[@alexconti7932]

Awesome! I really hope this will become an animation/movie some day.

[@JoaoPedro-qp9cw]

Good morning, I've already commented this, but I was kinda late so here is the copy & paste: "Hey Yoystan, I've been thinking about a lotr game concept for a while, it would change a major event of the legendarium, but remain faithful to Tolkien's concepts and rules(the one thing SoM and SoW haven't done). What are your thoughts about it?" Also, I would like to see videos about necromancy(and variations of the "things that avoid Ilúvatar's Gift", such as Oaths and Curses) and how it works in the Legendarium. Also, it would be great to see more of magic, specifically dwarven magic, is it inherent or just lore/goetia? Can it cause physical effects or just create artifacts? There are many other questions I would like to ask but, for now, thanks for the attention

[@MenoftheWest]

João Pedro Great questions and suggestions, my friend! I would be interested in such a game, as long as it felt like it could happen in Tolkien’s world. I’ll delve more into necromancy, the magic of crafting and oaths, as they are very interesting parts of the legendarium that need some research! I would just say that there are always certain rules in fiction, like I have mentioned in past videos, established by the author, but then the author purposefully breaks those rules at least once to add a modifier to his or her story. That’s what these are in my opinion.

[@JoaoPedro-qp9cw]

Men of the West I will continue developing the game concept. Again, thanks for the attention and continue your great work

[@blackmetalnazgul4519]

i love sharing this channel with other people. best LOTR channel on yt 🖒

[@MenoftheWest]

Thank you! :)

[@bucketman3095]

Alright, I just gotta say, 'Black Metal Nazgul' sounds like an awesome metal band name.

[@jonaski08]

Love your videos man. From the Philippines here😊

[@sirprepsalot6268]

AWESOME! Once again... THANKS :)

[@vbywrde]

Well played. I think you really nailed it.

[@bartekwesoowski1113]

Thanks for accepting my idea,and you should do if Aragorn or Leoglas or Gimli or Boromir took the one ring

[@Section8Spectre]

Absolutely wonderful so well written and narrated

[@richardjared960]

Wow what an amazing story! Great job!

[@jakobrenner2230]

Awesome theory! I agree on most points but I personaly think that near Sauron, the Ring would instatantly return to it's maker. You surprised me with Sauron manipulating Saruman into starting Dagor Dagorath haha! Very interesting and Great Video!

[@BillOreillysDad]

this was a fascinating theory, thaNK YOU!

[@Ravage26]

Well done!! Loved the Dagor Dagorath!! Any chance you could do a full video on Dagor Dagorath in complete and full detail on how it starts, to how it finishes under these same story guidelines please???

[@khamulthewack4732]

This is the one theory I ever needed in my life.

[@MrMaxenen11]

watched it again, very entertaining, well done.

[@johnnyredleg1]

This is a great series. Excellent work!

[@joshjones6072]

I've always wondered what would have happened if Sauruman the White had got hold of the One Ring. JRRT certainly built this tension into the story by purposely making the names of Sauron and Sauruman so similar, and cleverly slightly confusing. Great storyline Men of the West! This is easily my favorite of your what-if alternate explorations. I agree, I'm sure the 2nd Song of Creation would have been the conclusion in this case.

[@tylersoto7465]

I heard there was going to be a 3rd person called Sexyman sounding familiar to sauron and saruman but was too inappropriate lol

[@frankcastleisdead7473]

I could use one of these Videos every morning.

[@brandonmarshall3360]

Yet another fantastic video :)

[@connorconvoy12gaming37]

Hey dude great video, for your next one can you do a complete history of the tauredain or the druedain a bit like your Beornings video

[@Istrino]

Great work!

[@thesilentspectator927]

This is a nice video I love it, it's interesting to see this happen.

[@MrProBad]

Nice work man

[@andresfp0128]

I'm pretty bussy these days but I always have tieme to wach your vids!!! good theory again!!!!

[@malcolmt7883]

Sharp video, one of the best. BTW, I always wondered why Sauron wanted the Numenoreans to worship Melkor instead of himself.

[@nikosaivaliotis5873]

Amazing theory, especially the return of Morgoth and the Dagor Dagorath

[@andrewpaige1194]

VERY cool! I love how u brought it to dagor dagoroth! And u didn’t just phone it in. I can actually believe that there’s a chance saurumon really could have been fooled by sauron into doing that! I was thinking “here we go, this guy is just gonna make saurumon idiotically fall for a sauron ploy”, cause I couldn’t imagine there was any way, with his knowledge of both sauron, and the history of Sauron tricking numenor in the exact same way, for sauron to b able to trick him, but ESPECIALLY given hundreds of years of Sauron probably somehow subtly working on saurumon, I can totally accept the possibility that he would fall for THAT!

[@theserpent6070]

Love your videos keep it up

[@michaelfurtwangen1662]

i think something else would have happen. When saruman reveals his plans to use the ring himself in the first book of the lord of the rings, gandalf tells him, that the ring only has one master - sauron. So first Saruman would gain great power and easily conquer rohan and fangorn an may march against either elves in the north, gondor in the south or even morder in the east, the ring would currupt his mind and soul. Saruman is wise and has a strong will, but he is jealous and greedy by his nature and therefore an easy victim to the power if the ring. In the end I think the goidhearthed earthbound hobbits are more resilent against the power of the ring than saruman. After a few victories on the battlefield his will would perish and sauron would take control him. saruman would become a puppet of sauron and after giving the ring to sauron, he himself would face endless torture for his arrogance

[@kevinmartinez114]

Great video where have you been brother been waiting for more lol best channel

[@user-ml5wi9ch2e]

Wow! Great work!

[@greypilgrim6157]

This is very good. Especially how Sauron pulls, well, a Sauron and ultimately brings about Saruman’s doom, and the final battle as prophesied, and wrapping a neat bow on things in the process. However, I don’t see things necessarily going down as outlined here. I think Gandalf, having already been betrayed and imprisoned by Saruman once, and presumably being wiser and more powerful anyway as the white version of himself, would not confront Saruman and try reason. He would likely send Legolas and Gimli both back to their respective lands and peoples and inform them of events and rouse them quickly to war preparedness and even swift action. And then I think he and Aragorn would both be needed to rouse Rohan and pull Theoden back to reality (presumably a tougher job now that Saruman has the ring, but still doable I believe), and also prepare to wage war and defend against Saruman. But firstly Gandalf must take leave of Aragorn and go to Fangorn to warn the Ents, and ask them to make the supreme sacrifice and attack Orthanc to buy time (no more Entwives anyway dudes, may as well go down in a literal “blaze” of glory, striking a hard, but doomed blow, for trees everywhere) for Rohan, before meeting up with Aragorn there. Aragorn must of course reveal himself as The King to get maximum cred, and then tread the Paths Of The Dead to rouse those guys to battle vs Saruman, perhaps saving Rohan’s bacon temporarily so they can postpone their doom at least a bit longer. Then it’s off to Gondor where Denethor is quickly deposed and since we don’t have much time before D-day, the kingdom quickly rallies behind Aragorn in opposition to Saruman. Sauron would indeed offer to join forces with Saruman though, because if he waits until the west is (presumably) destroyed, his value to Saruman goes way down. Although he could simply vacate Mordor and move to the Far East and prepare for a larger war vs Saruman, hoping time somehow proves his friend rather than enemy. Either way, if Saruman gets the ring he just becomes the next Sauron, and the Valar likely would eventually need to intervene. Or even more exciting of a story would instead be a huge host of the Vanyar and Teleri, and the Noldor that stayed behind, suffering from a form of observers guilt, petition to help save the free peoples of middle earth, and show up with a vast host and maybe a second group of Istari, to take on Saruman. That’s probably pushing it but man that would be awesome! And maybe also Sauron in the Far East would figure out a way to bring Melkor back from the void, making that tandem a much more interesting third player in the deal and allowing the final battle to become a reality also. Anyway, just my ramblings here. Probably tons of flaws in my logic, but it is fun to imagine all these what-ifs!

[@Lazarosaliths]

very good content my friend!

[@cwbuxton]

Petition for these videos to be uploaded to podcast apps

[@evagel1548]

I liked the way you tied the Doom of Mandos into this 👍