What If South Africa Never Had Apartheid? | Alternate Afterthought

[@arnehefer5749]

I am South African. Afrikaans to be exact. I am so sad and depressed that it never played out like this. You don’t understand..😔

[@revcanon5744]

Selle, ou.

[@joKer7507]

Bro! I'm South African too, Coloured to be exact and I'd just like to say thank you for your comment. I love all South African's even though our Government has messed us over, but it's up to us to spread the love and help each other without the directive of the ANC. May you and your family be blessed!

[@arnehefer5749]

Justin Adams Thanks same to you

[@revcanon5744]

@@joKer7507 ja nee die anc het niks vir hierdie land gedoen nie. hulle moet verban word uit suid afrika uit

[@lynnmothibeli325]

Love you, Arne❤❤.

[@FromNothing]

I don't know why I'm still surprised by how in depth you are with your videos. Very nicely researched, detailed, balanced, and pleasant to watch in general. Glad to see you back! Also, be prepared for toxic comment section, just saying.

[@Phrenotopia]

Thanks, Jabari! That means a lot! I already had an incline that a balanced guy like yourself would like this take. The colonizers certainly bear the lion share of the blame being the strongest party, but the Natives/Blacks haven't exactly been saints always either and still aren't always. In the end, it doesn't really matter as we are all people and need to find a way to live together harmoniously.

[@zhcultivator]

@@Phrenotopia Wonderful Video and have a great day or good night

[@wires-sl7gs]

Very interesting video! Glad to see you make more videos too! It's a real shame this scenario didn't happen in our timeline

[@Phrenotopia]

My thoughts exactly. Thanks for being a loyal fan!

[@mugodasimon]

Wow, my wife is an Afrikaaner and she is so in love with me and me with her💓 its undeniable!. We are all made in God's image (SPIRIT)! Bse God is Spirit, we too are spirit Black, white etc and all shall stand b4 the righteous judge and to those that believe in Jesus Christ and have him in their hearts( do according to his will) , SHALL inherit the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN AMEN!!

[@joesmalley397]

One of the best comments I've ever read hats off to you.

[@muppet50yago36]

You would have to go back and replace Shaka with a more peaceful king and avoid the Mfecane. Otherwise tribes would never have assimulate with the Zulu (although how much a power the Zulu would be without him is disputable). There are cultural tension from that even now. It's why the boers didn't have to fight a lot of wars against the natives to occupy the Transvaal and Vrystaat.

[@ThisisBarris]

South Africa is definitely an interesting case study for me. As a business student, I remember the word BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) being used all over the place as a buzzword a few years ago. But if you look at it, Brazil is blowing up, Russia has stagnated into oblivion, India and China are slowing, and South Africa is just getting worse and worse. It's clear all these nations had a lot of hope (hence why many of them accepted to host the World Cup, for example). I was in South Africa a few years ago and loved it so it's truly a shame. A great video man.

[@Phrenotopia]

Thanks, buddy! Tragedies of history like South Africa are probably what causes me to make Alternate History videos.

[@ThisisBarris]

@@Phrenotopia Yeah, it's just nice (and sad) to think of what it could have been.

[@Chaika1974]

Russia, China and India are anything but stagnating at this point.

[@revcanon5744]

It was a promising nation going forward, but it all went downhill too damn quickly. Screw you, ANC, I hope you feel guilty about this.

[@andrewhall7176]

Interestingly, when South Africa entered BRICS a very well-known cartoonist here did a fantastic drawing of all the BRICS nations sitting at a table, with a small Jacob Zuma peeking up near China's elbow, with the caption reading "The BRICS and a briquette". 😂

[@niko3688]

A better timeline for everyone i think

[@robertkidnley93]

Well seeing where south africa is now I wouldn't say that but you know to each there own arpathied is terrible but better then the socialist bull shit mandala push he was a communist he would hang out with Castro and leaders from the USSR

[@jyeviolegrace2143]

@@robertkidnley93....tf did u just say? I mean I live in South Africa, it's pretty bad here. Nelson Mandela did what he could. He was better than most of our presidents that came after him

[@wildfire9280]

This would probably most likely happen under a federation established wayyyy earlier than OTL. If George Grey's plan for South Africa had been accepted in London you can bet the Cape Qualified Franchise would be extended, in its fullest (ie. pre-Gordon Sprigg), to the entirety of South Africa. By his time the Orange Free State was already open to negotiation and the Transvaal was not far off either.

[@Phrenotopia]

Interesting character indeed, though certainly not flawless. www.sahistory.org.za/people/sir-george-grey

[@hiddenhist]

Interesting to see how the plan for this video changed, and how thoroughly you research these.

[@lu881]

This was very well done. Very well-researched. Well-balanced also. I prefer this alternate history then the other ones.

[@muppet50yago36]

Yeah problem is it's not realistic. Xhosa and other bantu tribes weren't big fans of the Zulu and helped the boers, considering the Zulu's slaughtered them in the Mfecane. He would have to go back even further to make Africa peaceful.

[@vd9866]

If the South African whites weren't so obsessed with their privileges and chose to gradually abolish Apartheid and build a native middle-class, the current reverse Apartheid could be prevented and the resistance wouldn't be hijacked by the radical leaders, South Africa would have been the jewel of Africa....

[@zhcultivator]

Economically, i think this (non-apartheid) Union of South Africa could have been a "highly developed" country (with a "South Africa Qualified Franchise") & with a high GNI per capita/GDP per capita & a High-Income Advanced* Mixed-Market Economy like Australia. It would probably be a Regional Power and be a Great Power in the making on the Continent of Africa. Also this video should have at least 110K views.

[@aqrealestateking]

These are the type of videos I like..... lets see how things should have been.......

[@muppet50yago36]

I really doubt the Zulu would have just become Christians. When they killed Piet Retief, Dingane screamed "kill the wizards." Not a lot of civilized behaviour my bruh.

[@kwillz2003]

South africa would have been like canada or australia

[@matteobannatyne6279]

I always think what would have happened if Piet Ratief wasn't betrayed by Dingane - would that have laid the foundation for an amicable relationship between the Zulu and Voortrekker peoples?

[@joelduplessis8766]

This is such a great video! Thanks for the in depth analysis and utopian view of what South Africa could have been (and still could be). It gives me hope that maybe we can still achieve that growth and mature as a country and as a people!

[@TheExoplanetsChannel]

Great video! You deserve far more subscribers :)

[@Phrenotopia]

Thanks man! That requires me pumping out videos like crazy and I'm not in a position at the moment where I can do that.

[@babazi]

If there was no apartheid. SA would have been a super power for sure |*apartheid architects committed a serious mistake*|. SA had good potential. Right now, we are stuck up on the past and unable to move forward with a huge influence from politicians. we have no politicians focusing on encouraging the people to move forward. we are stuck up and the future does not look very promising, with all the arrogance from different races and groups. there is zero unity, we hate each other based on what the ones before us did, we are exactly where Rwanda was in 1994 (just without the genocide yet)

[@OlenkaWagner]

6:00 good that you explained the story behind the picture.

[@Zhranzagul]

Good to see you still upload!

[@Phrenotopia]

Good to see, you're still sticking around! Thanks!

[@oo--7714]

They wouldn’t have lost Namibia

[@xavierblitz5647]

a painful loss

[@dwainecana]

To that other dude who said African can't count more than ten in their tounges....well you are wrong we can and plus 90% of us are bilingual, can't say the same for some parts of the globe.

[@yourmajesty1361]

That's actually a great idea

[@PaoloCavestro-ey9bb]

What if Southafrica had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?

[@filthygee]

Phrenotopia : What if South Africa Never Experienced Apartheid? White Nationalist with bias and distorted history : It didn't happen. Whites we're always there and it's our land. Great video. Keep it up. 💯

[@connorgolden4]

Personally I think the most realistic chance for a better South Africa was the 1948 election. Have the United party win and not the national party, Since this election allowed apartheid to be implemented. The United party wanted gradual integration and more European immigration from areas besides the Netherlands. That means no becoming an international pariah, a larger white population and maybe larger coloured and Indian population, no apartheid and instead slow integration, and majority rule at some point in the late sixties to late seventies. South Africa would be far wealthier and you wouldn’t see the ANC get the chance to run the nation into the ground after Mandela leaves.

[@zenge.simakoloyi546]

This is interesting but I notice it mostly benefits the preservation of Afrikaner nationalism more than anything. So I still dont see how this alternative would be less devastating...homogenisation of African languages, kingdoms and cultures would easily cause a civil war.

[@slik_]

Swahili worked, so why not merging other languages?

[@zenge.simakoloyi546]

@@slik_true but that’s a generalisation of African ethnic groups and nation states. Swahili was a lingua franca of 40% Arabic and several African languages no ethnic group felt disenfranchised by it. Additionally in Kenya and more so in Tanzania the state deliberately monopolised media to indoctrinate people to speak Swahili rather than their 120 ethnic groups in what was a concerted attempt to almost eliminate ethnic groups through nation-building with a single language. So I simply can’t see this happening with the Zulu and Xhosa kingdoms in the same way the Afrikaners wouldn’t accept to be forced to only speak English or the English forced to only speak Afrikaans as both languages are rooted in Latin/Germanic linguistic families in the same way Zulu and Xhosa are rooted in the Bantu languages family.

[@slik_]

@@zenge.simakoloyi546 Eh. This goes too far into alternate history. The butterfly effect would easily take care of this

[@Phrenotopia]

Not seeing the "Afrikaner nationalism". If with "Afrikaner" you mean "native speaker of Afrikaans regardless of skin colour or perceived race" then there isn't any nationalism to begin with; Just a common language. I also don't agree with you characterising "harmonization" as "homogenisation" and even less so how that would lead to civil war. Creating greater unity and understanding between different people living together in a society is a natural and necessary process. With fewer languages to have to know, people would become more interconnected. It doesn't necessarily efface their local diversity, on the contrary! There will always be some level of diglossia in any society and often being strengthened by separating the "cold" common language out there from the "warm" local language spoken at home and on the streets.

[@zenge.simakoloyi546]

@@Phrenotopia agree to disagree 👍🏽

[@samsmith4242]

Botswana was also a protectorate, giving the a say in how they governed themselves. It wasn’t much they they had more freedoms than other groups in the area

[@wildfire9280]

The Bechuanaland protectorate only narrowly escaped unification into South Africa, if I remember correctly it was fierce Tswana opposition due to the... nature of the union. A similar thing happened with the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland but the native population was successful only in the end when the federation was disbanded.

[@timvanrijn8239]

Intresting Unlikely with the british empire overside. But still plausible enought.

[@lynnmothibeli325]

God Is Still Good🙏🏾🇿🇦❤🔥.

[@Ethan-zs2dh]

I as a South African really wish they never implemented Apartheid, if they had not we would have most likely been a first world country like the U.S.A.

[@OhSanjiBoi]

Watching this in 2021 and this video is really awesome! I love the amount of research put in this video.

[@misterkaren]

Technically I'm from South Africa but still it's kind of racist people should follow their own traditions why do we have a white god but we don't have a black god it's kinda racist I don't like white people that much because of history:(

[@peterphooko1441]

Are you aware not all people of the same race are actually the same personality wise??what happened to judging people based on their content of their character and not race gender or religion???

[@misterkaren]

@@peterphooko1441 what

[@tailsprowerfan2729]

There can only be one god

[@amadeusmozart155]

If you don’t like Christianity, then just create a new religion with the black God.

[@misterkaren]

@@amadeusmozart155 that would be a cult

[@mnmeskc848]

The "get-go" was the Boer ancestors installing slavery and committing genocide in the western Cape Colony, but if only the still independent indigenous people in the east were more tolerable and palatable to the slavers with unresolved superiority complexes, things would have been so different.

[@slik_]

If the settlers weren't radical Calvinists, the whole "genocide issue" wouldn't have been there - they simply viewed the natives the way they did because they weren't Christians.

[@revcanon5744]

If only Cecil John Rhodes didn't become president in the late 1800s. That would at least have broken the foundation he made upon which Apartheid was built. Without Apartheid, this country would have been a superpower competing head on with the US with how resource-rich South Africa is.

[@shiverza9584]

Awesome video, but alternative question if I may? What if the british empire never annexed the boer republics and created South Africa?

[@Phrenotopia]

Certainly an interesting thought! However, since Cape Qualified franchise wasn't in play on those republics, and given the Weenen Massacre, I fear that it may have gone a similar route. Also cf. Rhodesia. Another interesting question: What if the British never annexed the Cape?

[@andrewhall7176]

I think if the Boer republics had not been annexed you probably would have had their existing as totally separate countries in which there probably would have been some form of segregation (although maybe not as severe as apartheid). If the Cape had not been annexed I think you would have ended up with a largely white, Afrikaans-speaking country in the Cape, a separate country with English and possibly Zulu on the south and east coasts, and a very different ethnic makeup of the interior (which would itself probably be made up of several small countries), as the regions depopulated due to the Mfecane would have been resettled by various Bantu ethnic groups.

[@Phantom6.6.6]

One or two small changes and things would have been so much more interesting. Such a shame to have missed out on what could have been

[@historycenter4011]

What if earth was heaven?

[@thefirstsolution3675]

If the british didnt come aparteid might of not happened becuase the british created it when they came and invaded inner south africa

[@alexclark5325]

Just like most Latin American countries and Caribbean.

[@PhilosoShysGameChannel]

Guud Stuff!

[@andrewhall7176]

Very nice video. I think what would have also been required would have been the establishment of very strong organs of civil society to ensure that the sort of corruption seen today could not take root. Otherwise you might have not had apartheid but still had a very corrupt government. In order to reduce inter-racial tension it might have also been required that the government work hard at developing the country overall, so that any inequalities arising due to the fact that you would have had different groups with different backgrounds and levels of development in the same country, could be reduced.

[@Phrenotopia]

That is a very slimy way of implying that racial differences are real and thereby justifying racism.

[@andrewhall7176]

@@Phrenotopia Lol, my comment doesn't remotely do that. I don't know what you are smoking (your mom's panties maybe?) but it is very clearly clouding your ability to understand what you are reading. Quote the part of my comment which implies that racial differences are real and which justifies racism.

[@saintkun2708]

More alternate history in southeast Asia region plz

[@Phrenotopia]

I'm planning one on West Papua.

[@andresfelipe7634]

interesting.

[@alexclark5325]

a sensible scenario would be the British empowers blacks to quell boer rebellions.

[@andilemadondo1208]

I would have enjoyed the video more if it said "What if white people never came to Africa"

[@tailsprowerfan2729]

That’s pretty racist

[@tompossessed1729]

Nice video and question why do you think colonialism affected Africa worst then other countries besides south America.

[@Phrenotopia]

Lower population sizes and the indigenous peoples being easier to dehumanize due to their superficial appearance.

[@tompossessed1729]

@@Phrenotopia basically Africa diversity in genetics and culture made it easier to create division .

[@andrewhall7176]

It didn't affect Africa worse than North America, and the diversity of peoples in Africa was not used for divide and rule: in many cases one native kingdom or tribe would in fact take advantage of the presence of Europeans to establish an advantage over a rival group. Having different ethnic groups warring with one another within a colony was definitely not something the rulers of a given colony wanted, because it caused instability.

[@wmille17]

that good ,, mongol and Rus poeple will be mix next

[@matthewmann8969]

A even more interesting question what if Khois And Sans were the only races in Southern Africa what if Non Khoisans never came to Southern Africa?

[@Mman07311]

I wish..

[@jakesroothman3085]

Good though but South Africa is the second largest economy in Africa

[@yaboistefan1206]

Their starting to sink though due to ancs corruption . my prediction is that over the next decade countries like egypt, Kenya, Ethiopia, morrocco and Sudan(if they get their shit together)will quickly overtake them

[@andrewhall7176]

@@yaboistefan1206 Yip. Under the ANC we are going backwards.

[@jamiebehun1743]

Trump should bring all Afrikaners to America.

[@restinpeaceholowka2555]

Your are not a solution

[@jolajolo9219]

Yes please

[@lloydgush]

Certainly.... christians don't fuck each other up at every corner... And zulu's "assimilating" other tribes has a very peaceful history, adding proselytizing to it certainly would make everything better... Honestly, if it was for me I'd change way more...

[@renierlindeque9387]

Once agàin religion ruins everything

[@SaucyJack97]

Pretty linear video that comes from flawed historiography. Better that you don't cover these sort of topics in the future.

[@Phrenotopia]

Yes, grampa.

[@SaucyJack97]

@@Phrenotopia It was wrong of me to insult your video just because I didn't agree with everything. You put a lot of time into it. Keep doing what you do. :)

[@Phrenotopia]

Your power level is showing...

[@stephanerasmus8313]

This would never have ever worked. In any way.

[@Phrenotopia]

Explain.

[@stephanerasmus8313]

@@Phrenotopia Because according to the Boer prophet Seer van Rensburg. Apartheid shouldn't have happened on the terms of race but rather on the terms of Faith. By the fact that the Afrikaners are Dutch Reformed Church and the Black people of sub-sahara Africa, South-Africa is native Shamanism. The Afrikaners can be friendly and kind to the black people but arn't allowed to mix with them sexually. But obviously it didn't go in the derection God had wanted it to. The national party had made a very human mistake with that interpretation.

[@Phrenotopia]

​@@stephanerasmus8313 - There's nothing forgivable about introducing apartheid. Also, you didn't answer the question why this would never have worked in any way. Native South Africans did convert to Christianity en masse and, like Sechele I and his people, could have done this on their own accord. Also: Are you saying God is racialist?

[@stephanerasmus8313]

@@Phrenotopia No. I'm Saying that even when having converted to Christianity, the Prophet Seer van Rensburg said that the Native Black people can only be christian as long as they are the ones on top. Meaning as long as they are the ones to make the rules. He said that even though white Afrikaans speaking South-Africans did show racism the problem is. It is regarding God before action is taken. For instance the Afrikaners would consult the bible and God's view on every political matter. This was seen increasingly during the rise of the boer Republics and even during the Union and later rise of Apartheid. The problem is Black people won't stop and think. Is this goog in God's eyes firsr. No they would first kill the farmer and then later feel a sense of dread for their actions. And one more thing you Backwards American. God isn't racist.

[@Phrenotopia]

​@@stephanerasmus8313 - My face is shown in plenty of my video's thumbnails, and so is other info on where I'm from, if you'd care to look further than your own nose. I'm native, white Dutch with secular upbringing by my catholic-raised father and my protestant-raised mother. Not that any of that matters, of course, whatsoever. What matters is whether one is caring and fair-minded; Qualities neither of which you have shown here so far. I can perfectly judge the criminal and inhumane nature of the apartheid regime without "having been there", but as it so happens, I known plenty of people personally (white Afrikaners btw), who lived through the hell of apartheid, and who can attest to that. But I get it. Judging from his own words, it's your "Prophet Seer" van Rensburg, who is the racist here. And by parroting his words and uttering other prejudices, so are you. And if your god is fine with all of this, and willing to commit genocide (again) on select groups of people, then so must he be as well. You crutch up your racist ideas with your belief in a racist deity. Thank you for this stunning example of projection by the way: "They cannot forgive and forget because they like to live in the past." But by all means: Dig an even deeper grave for yourself here.

[@lukealadeen7836]

As a South African, I think this video is nonsense