What if the Cold War Went Nuclear?

[@WhatifAltHist]

Link to Brilliant, first 200 people get 20% off their annual subscription. brilliant.org/Whatifalthist/

[@jessetorres8738]

Answer: The we'd probably all be dead and living in the world of the series The 100 minus the homicidal A.I.

[@xavierlauzac5922]

Jesse Torres not all.

[@generalkenobi4683]

We would be cold sad babarbarians.

[@zhcultivator]

Thanks for this very interesting video

[@Alfred_Atheling]

Have heard of a Crusader Kings 2 mod called “after the end” it’s basically the scenario you described.

[@daikolirae155]

I can’t help but imagine Ohio being ruled by a dictatorial, authoritarian bowling league.

[@bevbevan6189]

Yes, but a dictatorship where strikes are welcome.

[@muscovymapping8896]

I might be the fanatical leader then lmao

[@rmar127]

🤣🤣🤣

[@nickhueper2906]

Always has been

[@laurenf.7922]

Just like how I can imagine my home state of Florida becoming a series of warring states based on ideology who are forced to deal with crazy Florida men.

[@Neforus]

there may Never Ever be another man as powerful as Stanislav Petrov

[@crashwave299]

Real life lore's mention on vasily arkapov on cuban crisis video:am i a joke to you?

[@ZephLodwick]

Both Arkapov and Petrov should be showered with gold, bestowed a thousand noble titles, and have their birthdays celebrated across the world for their service to the human race.

[@Fishermhm]

I love emplemon

[@yespls6260]

Thank you, Stanislav ❤️

[@TheMinecraftJake]

Even in the event of imminent hot nuclear war, keep a cool head!

[@gas132]

this man literally just described medieval europe with modern technology

[@mohandasjung]

It sounds cool

[@rexruther4864]

@@mohandasjung terrible time to live

[@alangivre2474]

I had the same feeling!!!!

[@littlehandsgivescovfefe4837]

more like dark ages Europe, from the 550's onward.

[@simonpetrikov3992]

@@littlehandsgivescovfefe4837 Well the middle ages and the dark ages happened around the same time

[@robertlewis6915]

I almost want this guy to become a politician just to see all his quotes taken out of context.

[@yudosai]

that would be really funny

[@Daniel-jm7ts]

"A billion death would be manageable"

[@Makem12]

Maybe you should run and use him as a speechwriter to get great phrases that will be taken out of context

[@Newbmann]

Can't wait for him to say "blacks outside of cities" Oh wait he did in this video now all we need to do is take his quote about "Egyptians being easy to oppress" AND WALLAH we made a quote that is going to make it so HE WILL NEVER BE ELECTED.

[@jasonbelstone3427]

"What if the Jews were settled in Madagascar?"

[@campbellblock3061]

"The end of the world would have a profound cultural effect on the world."

[@willtrap4food698]

you don't say

[@weebishusername9288]

W O W mind *_BLOWN_*

[@fullmetaltheorist]

I would have never guessed.

[@Devmess7799]

Just *WOW*

[@adwarbarbar3722]

Like a world wide cross cultural flood myth

[@nuncasaberas5926]

*Northern hemisphere gets nuked* "Lmao, so now you want to come to Brazil huh?"

[@etho7351]

The come to brazil meme found a way to attach itself to a timeline were a billion people die Nice!

[@gnomodanadodasilva3490]

As a brazilian I can only say *COME TO BRAZIL OR DIE*

[@xx_donkeyfucker_xx7910]

I’m still not gonna go

[@mayuri4184]

Australia for me.

[@innosam123]

“You must be truly desperate to come to me for help.”

[@Caladras]

So people in a post-apocalyptic, post-nuclear world would still browse the internet for some dank memes. That's all I ever needed to know. Mad Max my ass

[@timothycook8334]

Enjoy making memes with SuperPaint, the best graphic design software the 1970s had to offer. Also putting pictures on the internet without digital cameras is going to be tough.

[@spaceman9599]

More like they would ask their local Shaman if they could remember any stories of the old times...

[@Caladras]

@@spaceman9599 post-nuclear shamans would make for the best meme creators. Shitposting is kind of a religion anyway

[@spaceman9599]

@@Caladras A strange post-modernist religion, indeed.

[@ZephLodwick]

I'm imagining a strange post-apocalyptic religion based off of logging onto the internet and connecting with the greater human consciousness to attain enlightenment.

[@Robert0Pirie]

"Resurrection Day" by Brendan Dubois is set in an alternate 1973, ten years after the Cuban Missile Crisis went critical. An awesome read, I highly recommend it. The tag line for the book is amazing: "Everyone remembers exactly what they were doing the day President Kennedy tried to kill them."

[@kevinbourke1847]

Robert Pirie I got the book

[@Robert0Pirie]

@@kevinbourke1847 I really like his writing. One of the better hist-fic writers out there.

[@hermes112]

do you think it is worth for a casual history nerd or is it really advanced and hard to follow

[@Robert0Pirie]

@@hermes112 It's easy to follow. I would say that I am not as well versed in Cold War history as I would like to be (i.e. I've watched some youtube historians talk about it and whatever from high school days is still kicking around my 35 year old brain) but I was able to read and enjoy it.

[@hermes112]

@@Robert0Pirie Ok, thanks for letting me know will consider getting it

[@GJ_DM]

Napleon: "You cannot stop me, I spend 30,000 men a month." Whatifalthist: "....would result in a billion deaths, which is manageable."

[@doomsncrew]

Fortunately, you're wrong about something: Stanislav Petrov did recieve medals, awards, and even pensions, he just has not received them from the Soviet regime, it was given to him from abroad, after his decision was made public to the whole world in 1998. He even got invited by the United Nations, invitation which he honored by traveling to New York. He died in 2017, knowing there are people all around the world who are grateful for what he did.

[@DPRK_Best_Korea]

"Considering their meat pies, the Australian claim to civilization is tenuous at best" - Whatifalthist, 11 September 2020.

[@efxnews4776]

You didn't hear the guy say that Brazil will be the superpower by default in this new world, isn't?

[@aussiedonaldduck2854]

I shall never subscribe to this channel or like any of this heathens videos. A pox on Whatifalthist and all his works. Next he will be mocking Fish & Chips. How dare you sir!

[@thomasdooley5904]

Aussie meat pies are great. Americans just think pies are supposed to be full of sugar.

[@SirZanZa]

Except meat pies...or just pies as we call them in England have been baked for a millennia long before Australia was known about lol. pies arent supposed to be sweet, that is what you call a Tart.

[@thomasdooley5904]

@@SirZanZa yes. I’ve lived in England for 11 years. And Aus for 8 years. The Aussies make the best pies.

[@mind-h4i]

Stanislav was a smart guy "If the Americans wanted to destroy us, why would they only send few nukes? Wouldn't they want us to not have a chance to retaliate? Must be an error"

[@Seven_Leaf]

USA: "I'll use a million nukes!" Soviet Union "They we'll use a million-bajillion nukes!"

[@lastword8783]

Soviet Union: I might be dead, but you'll be MORE dead!

[@mark12strang58]

Stanislav Petrov acted according to the protocol and orders,none of his actions violated the laws of his country. The Soviets assumed that the USA would launch hundreds of missiles and not just a few. This is the reason, why he dismissed the warning as false alarm.

[@marcusc9931]

Sometimes knowing and keeping to damned procedure is all that is needed. Ask the guys at Chernobyl.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

So THAT'S why! The Christians have been selling us a bill of goods that it was because Jesus or the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to Mr. Petrov.

[@joeshows336]

Why was he not appreciated then? They even questioned his decision

[@Klyis]

Can't believe that you didn't mention Switzerland, the country that's literally been preparing for something like this for the better part of a century.

[@oof5020]

Exactly what I thought. With a comparably, crazy strong militia, heavy propaganda during the Cold War and enough bunkers for the whole population, you'd be sure to think that the Swiss would be important in a post-apocalyptic world.

[@markli3034]

Me: Sets nuclear bomb sound as alarm when I wake up in 7pm Alarm: Ringing at 5pm Me: *Wait a minute,*

[@PeridotFan64]

You wake up a 7PM?

[@armannstraughter3296]

@@PeridotFan64 He's taking a nap in this scenario?

[@Soupy_Goodness]

Now you don't have to wake up!

[@GhostXRizz]

No he said in a sarcastic way that at 5 pm actually there was a nuclear bomb warning

[@markli3034]

@@PeridotFan64 yeah

[@hart-of-gold]

Considering this is set in the early 80's, Australia could come though very well depending what areas are targeted. Most heavy industry was in smaller cities, oil refineries were on the out skirts of the major cities, farming regions are separated from the main population centres by mountains and all resources needed, at the time, were available somewhere in Australia. Also, steps backward, eg steam locos instead of diesel, were will within living memory. Hitting all the right places to knock Australia over completely would have needed a fair number of bombs.

[@aussiedonaldduck2854]

Well said. However after his comments on Meat Pies I shall never subscribe to this channel or like any of this heathens videos. A pox on Whatifalthist and all his works. Next he will be mocking Fish & Chips. How dare you sir!

[@jgr7487]

-what if India was never partitioned? -what if the Brazilian Empire had no qualms with the settling of Black Americans in the Amazon?

[@mvalthegamer2450]

Yes. Please.

[@mvalthegamer2450]

Especially the 1st

[@somerandompersonidk2272]

@@mvalthegamer2450 Depends on which version we use. If India was never granted independence, it is likely there would have been a very brutal uprising or it could have been reformed into a dominion with something similar to an Imperial Federation being created as in this AH World War 2 may have never happened, which is something that essentially allowed India to become independent. However, if India itself became independent and it owned all of Pakistan's territory at the time of independence what would have likely happened is that there would have been unsurprisingly a war for independence led by Pakistan where the true racist colors of the nation of India will appear. Sure, perhaps you could state the hindus and muslims will live in peace but this is very unlikely. Furthermore, would it own Burma or not?

[@mvalthegamer2450]

@@somerandompersonidk2272 Yeah. Kind of. There is very little that Britain could do to keep India. India was actively in Revolt since 1919, and a large portion of the Indian Army joined the Invading Japanese Army in 1940. Also, Hindu Muslim violence in India actually only dates back to 1922. India has always had religious diversity. Even after the partition, India still has a sizeable Muslim population. So there is absolutely a possibility that India could keep together. Also India is about as far from Racist as it gets, because there is so much diversity.

[@fluff5]

Civil war

[@mikerueffer579]

Whatifalthist:"Independent households or local darts teams would become the prime form of political organization." Okay children today we will look at how a bunch of drunken dart throwers from Pennsylvanian reunited the united states after World War 3.

[@libertatemadvocatus1797]

History actually has some really weird moments just like that. Remember that one of the lead ups to the French Revolution was meeting held on a tennis court.

[@mikerueffer579]

​@@libertatemadvocatus1797 I know but still it's funny to think about.

[@legchairhistorian5496]

I mean France was founded on some Feisty dudes being good at getting everyone else to fuck of so...

[@kyle18934]

@@legchairhistorian5496 just some feisty dudes wanting to play a nice game of lawn darts, and pool noodle tag lol.

[@Awakeningspirit20]

Or maybe a local bar of Florida Men from the Panhandle reunified Western Civilization

[@Caged_Viking]

Nuclear War: happens Almost the entire world: oh no, we're so dead Ireland and Sweden: dividing post-apocalypse Europe between themselves

[@SirZanZa]

Ireland would be nuked as well. Britain controls the northern portion of the island, a average size nuke would irradiate most of the island, plus Ireland is super close to the UK which would be decimated by hundreds of bombs

[@hannibalbarca7220]

Swiss Empire

[@starmirastarmira4420]

Russia, Germany and Finland, we're here to back our stuff!

[@csimonasc]

I think world would recover faster, because I am from former soviet union and saw how people can find ways to make living. Near place I live is burned down steel factory, with trees growing trees on the roof, that still works and besides making steel constructions are growing sheep (looks really postapocalyptic). Besides Germany and Korea bounced back really well after war, what maters educated population that is willing to work.

[@covenawhite4855]

Well plants have to expand to new places but only if there is a spot where plants are unaffected

[@americaisthebestcountryever]

Korea didn't bounce back well after the war. It took 30 years for south korea to get their shit together and have a proper working democracy with a great economy.

[@MrAlepedroza]

@The Martial Lord of Loyalty Without the Soviets propping up East Germany, they would have ended as a backwater too.

[@michaels4255]

You need a lot of energy to rebuild modern society, and that would be gone. Many technologies would be entirely lost as the few survivors who understood them scattered and eventually died.

[@michaelhowze8198]

@@americaisthebestcountryever Democracy isnt a requirement of recovery

[@arthurbriand2175]

In this world there would be a book named "the 6th extinction" that would be aptly named

[@mafianoodles]

we are 2/3 through the 6th extinction right now

[@scholaroftheworldalternatehist]

@@mafianoodles I don't think it's a mass extinction yet.

[@mafianoodles]

i don't like to quote online but the data says otherwise.

[@scholaroftheworldalternatehist]

@@mafianoodles I agree there is a higher than normal level of extinctions due to humans, but I don't think it is comparable yet to the 5 prehistoric mass extinctions. Those 5 extinctions nearly wiped out all of life (even small animals, insects). Thanks for replying.

[@mafianoodles]

@@scholaroftheworldalternatehist sorry again to disagree. Those extinction events also happened over thousands of years. Check the 'great dying' extinction event 250 million years ago. I wish I was wrong on this and you right. Humans and livestock are doing great though.

[@billysbilbolag2050]

Sweden post war as one of the only surviving centralised states: You've heard of "The Era of Great Power", now get ready for "The Era of *GREATER* Power"!

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Switzerland colonizes Europe and meets the Swedes somewhere near former Hamburg "Yooooooooo, weren't we both neutral 100 years ago?! Crazy times man"

[@felipesoares5900]

"Rio wouldn't be a hyperdeveloped paradise, it would be a dingy city with decaying buildings." It is... it is...

[@joryjones6808]

9:23 "Its all Ohio?" "Always has been."

[@rupertgarcia]

*points gun

[@agorriazfan3238]

What if China Remained Maoist? What if the Shu-Han or Wu kingdoms ruled China. What if the western Roman empire survive while the eastern roman empire collapse? What if Spain joined ww2? What if the troubles lead to Irish reunification?

[@JesterEric]

Spain joins WW2 repeat of the Peninsular War. Invasion of Spain instead of French N Africa. German strength from Russia drawn off earlier leading to an earlier defeat The troubles led to the U.K. surrender to the IRA with the Anglo Irish Agreement. It would not be a reunification as Ireland has never been a single unified country except as part of Great Britain

[@helpiamstuckonthismanshead3385]

@@JesterEric germany would still lose ww2 the laughing stock of Europe would become spain not italy

[@jahmah519]

What if the only war fought was the 1st & man didn't need to fight anymore than that because we would have known that war is crap

[@helpiamstuckonthismanshead3385]

@@jahmah519 still would happen that's human nature but i don't think we would ever consider atomic weapons

[@Harldin]

What if Grand Duke Ferdinand was not assassinated, thats probably the biggest what if of the 20th Century

[@nativejesus360]

What about the Native American Tribes? Already organized in government, and with most tribes having small populations it wouldn't be hard to get a good start on early empire building and with the foundations of government, culture, and race already in place most tribes would at least become regional powers if not to become a confederation of tribes like you see in the Iroquois or First-Nations of Canada. Just something to think about during the Apocalypse.

[@efxnews4776]

In a nation like Brazil, native tribes will be forgoten, they have no real power to do anything, and they will need to deal with the same after effects than the rest of the world. Some may survive, but i won't hold my breath for that...

[@melchid8448]

I have bad news for you but most reserve lands natives reside also houses missile silos which would be high priority targets,many reservations are in pretty bad situations that would be made worse by the apocalypse,I dont think Arizona or Nevada is the exact place you would want to upstart a civilization.

[@noahfischer3088]

The Navajo nation. It is time to expand

[@c4ble472]

"Patrolling the Mojave Almost Makes You Wish For a Nuclear Winter"

[@piotrmiler234]

Sparta order want to know your location

[@ottovonjizzmark9864]

"Universities wielding their student population as a cohesive military force". That has to be a joke.

[@АртурЧугай]

Nope, 100% serious, just like Bowling-club-states.

[@ofthecaribbean]

@Dave The Credible Exactly, student riots and political parties have always been

[@hanoi9316]

Left wing Universities would sure do this . Leftist teacher would sure train their students in guerrilla warfare.

[@hanoi9316]

Well said .Antifas like style.

[@JustHatcheted]

@@hanoi9316 Yes, of course. As a leftist I can attest that my 70-year-old civilian professors were well trained in Guerilla Warfare, and taught it to us radicals after class. I am now the most accomplished Antifa supersoldier this side of the Mississippi

[@justinweber4977]

"How would that have effected the rest of history?" Me: Would there BE a rest of history?

[@kubakaczmarek2399]

Yes it would be

[@justinweber4977]

@@kubakaczmarek2399 Yeah, but the melodramatic is fun.

[@spaceman9599]

Well yes, althought much of it would have been rediscovering what to do with rocks...

[@michaelhowze8198]

@@spaceman9599 Not really more like late 1800s

[@plusxz821]

Swiss

[@Thomas-zg6ox]

one of the first post nuclear alt-hist videos i've seen that actually focuses on geopolitics instead of "its impossible to say but it would sure suck". great vid!

[@historyandpoliticsexplaine4876]

Good to see a classic what if style vid

[@blaz2892]

This scenario seems like the kind of thing that would be horrible to live through, but fascinating to read about in the history books.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

I kind of want to know more about that Second "post Nuclear" renaissance

[@BaraWilmer]

Me too, but its impossible to tell what would, if it would, happen

[@griffin2465]

@@BaraWilmer If the internet exists I'd see something like the Arab Spring of our timeline happening globally. And new wacky ideologies, obviously (Imagine not being a Mercantile-Johnsonian in 2095 lol)

[@BaraWilmer]

@@griffin2465 doubt it

[@griffin2465]

@@BaraWilmer understandable have a nice day

[@BaraWilmer]

@@griffin2465 same. Have a good day

[@lucasnobrega1515]

Personally, I think that large, agrarian regions with little reason to be targeted, like the american Midwest, would become hot spots for immigration. There is little reason for the soviets to target them heavily, and the smaller levels of urbanization would mean that the region's government system wouldn't be oblitarated in the nuclear holocaust. Also, in this world, we'd see a case of urban exodus like that of the end of the Roman Empire, due to food becoming harder to come by and the best way to guarantee your supply of it is to grow it yourself. By the way, a "what if" I think would be really cool: "What if Kievan Rus never fell?"

[@dmac7128]

You are overlooking one important detail. Most of the United Sates ICBM's and bomber bases were located in the mid West, Great Plains and the Rockies. In any nuclear attack, the first targets would be the missile silos, bomber bases and sub bases. There were ICBMs all over places like Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming. They would also target every base that would be secondary dispersal fields and they would target command and control centers like Cheyenne Mountain and SAC headquarters. This pretty much covers most of the prime real estate for farmland. We would also target theirs as well which were located in similar places.

[@bensmall6548]

Also don’t forget the missiles in Kansas, Arizona, and Arkansas. This is 1983 so the titan 2s were still in service.

[@michaelhowze8198]

Except there are factories refineries and all kinds of industry in the Midwest even now. That was far more true in 83 the idea the Midwest is empty is fallacious. Also the above

[@buzter8135]

Modern Russia as we know it wouldn't exist.

[@rstomar4388]

7:23 Deck measuring contest XD This man got it right

[@EvilParagon4]

I have a feeling Australia and New Zealand would unite, or at least work _very_ closely. The world just became a lot smaller and neither country is about to let a war start between them.

[@aussiedonaldduck2854]

Never! And after his comments on Pies, I shall never subscribe to this channel or like any of this heathens videos. A pox on Whatifalthist and all his works. Next he will be mocking Fish & Chips. How dare you sir!

[@elliotwagstaff8685]

Unfortunately we are not nearly as close as we once were. The Kiwis, like Canadians have done with the US, define their culture around not being Australian.

[@EvilParagon4]

@@elliotwagstaff8685 We'll let you claim Pavlova if you become a state. Oh wait you're Australian lmao.

[@superkamiguru6856]

Major oversights here. Firstly, Switzerland: Switzerland would be able to house nearly its whole population in fallout shelters; since the bunker construction was ramping down in the '80s. Combined with no direct nukes thanks to their neutrality and the mountains, Switzerland could become the most populous region in Europe. Sweden and Finland would have a rougher time since they would get radiation and nuclear fallout from the USSR, Norway, Denmark, and Estonia. Secondly, Nuclear Fallout and Extreme Radiation Poisoning. You undermine the effects of Radiation. It could Burn you alive, and depending on how much you get, you could get cancer in under a year. Plus, any area of a city outside of the blast radius would get leveled by Nuclear Winds, and if enough Nukes are used on somewhere like Florida, then it's possible that the craters can flood. This isn't even mentioning that most of the northern hemisphere would die. The fallout is the worst part, and not because of the Ice age. Aerosol and Radiation is what makes up fallout. You'd be breathing in Lung Death and Cancer. Additionally, Aerosol toxifies the Ocean, so expect Acid rain. The only reason this never happened in Japan is because the Nuke wasn't powerful enough. But you're talking about an upwards of 100k Nukes when you take all of the Nuclear Powers of the '80s, including Israel. Not to mention that most of those nukes are more powerful than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki nukes. Even the Southern Hemisphere would have Fallout Drift, and would feel the effect of the Ice Age and Acid Oceans. Thirdly, EMP effects. Nukes have EMP effects, and that many Nukes would fry all electronics in the Northern Hemisphere. Even if some things have EMP Guards, there's still a chance they'll get fried. Sometimes EMP can cause permanent damage to devices, but not always. Governments in Exile. Governments in Exile would emerge from the bunkers, and would be seen as many as the true state. Many of these would be Military Juntas or Dictatorships, however a few would survive as democracies. These governments would be able to sway many people, and would unite various former-military forces scattered. Think of it like the Enclave in DC. Many people would support them, but many wouldn't. Overall, I don't think anything but tribes could exist in the Northern Hemisphere; with the governments in the Southern Hemisphere likely going into anarchy as people try to procure shelters, resources, and gasmasks to stop themselves from dying in the Ice Age and subsequent Fallout. The Governments would probably be in a constant state of Civil War basically everywhere in the Southern Hemisphere, with weaker countries going into complete Anarchy. Wacky Religions would form, like the Followers of Atom in Fallout. Birthrates would plummet further, thanks to a mix of instability and radiation, making nations will declining or stagnant populations seeing an even bigger drop, both initially and after 100 or so years. I See about a billion dying from the Nukes, and a Billion more dying from subsequent Radiation, Ice Age, and Anarchy. Switzerland would become the Strongest power in the Northern Hemisphere. India would lose a lot of population, and likely falling into Civil War, but I see them making off with half of their population. Australia and New Zealand would be some of the least Impacted, with radiation only spreading to Northwest Australia according to some predictions, and New Zealand making it unscathed. I See Australia and New Zealand unifying, as well as trying to gain the former governments of New Guinea, Indonesia and Malaya as allies if they exist. They'd create their own little sphere of trade and military alliance, using their industrial power to build up their economy in this post-war universe. I Could see them also distributing gasmasks and winter clothes made by their factories to other areas to win the favor of their people. ANZAC dominates Southeast Asia. Meanwhile, South Africa, mountainous and away from the Nuclear fire, would dominate South Africa. Same goes for Argentina and Chile with South America. The top five nations to come out strongest would be: #5: India #4: Argentina #3: South Africa #2: ANZAC and #1: Switzerland. Not much life would exist outside of the Southern Hemisphere; the few that would live in the North would be impacted the hardest by climate effects and would war each other from resources. The Southern Hemisphere wouldn't be much better off, but still would be on better standing than the North. I Think your mistake here was underestimating the effect of 100k Nukes on the world.

[@oitubeman1019]

Also must include a remnant soviet union

[@Luis.A.Angeli]

Forgot that Brasil would be the dominant country along with Australia and NZ, while India and South Africa would become anarchist, also why Switzerland? It would be destroyed by the mass of radiation and heat from the nuclear warheads

[@jasoniscool2006]

I think you missed two main things. Homogenous areas are always more likely to come together to build nations especially in Europe. Also whoever controls which nukes were not fired would have immense power in a post “hot Cold War” world.

[@cuddlemuffin.9545]

People would be too horrified of using them though.

[@DaniG.German883]

@@cuddlemuffin.9545 nope

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

But they would never use it since they'll most likely control only one, or a couple, and big settlements would be few and far between.

[@myreneario7216]

1:56 “If a nuclear war broke out it would be caused by a serious miscalculation on the part of the élite involved. We can prevent this sort of Damocles by being as logical and clear-headed as possible. You can start improving your logic skills at Brilliant.” To be more specific you should learn game theory, you should learn about the prisoners dilemma, then use the prisoners dilemma to model a nuclearsuperpower stand-off, and soon you´ll find yourself agreeing with the very logical and clear-headed mathematician John von Neumann who advocated for a nuclear first strike against the Soviet union.

[@marcoalejandro1407]

The US should’ve nuked the Soviets to kingdom come at the end of WW2

[@mohandasjung]

US should have used tatic nukes on the Korean war.

[@a.t.l.r.8969]

To the two comments above me it sounds like a good idea at first but it'd desensitize the world against nuclear warfare and nukes would probably owned by more nations and be used by more Imagine if saddam hussein got the nukes

[@cuddlemuffin.9545]

@@a.t.l.r.8969 he would bomb his own people, win-win

[@abcde_ghijklmnopqrstuvwyxz2188]

this is everything I've ever needed! I really love reading about wars, history, and how countries and nations have changed over time. I especially love alternate universes in history, so thank you for making this video, and I hope you'll make more of these!

[@xcvbnm123]

The risk Stanislav Petrov took was IMMENSE though...it's so scary that we were THAT close to this horrible timeline. I fear that a similar situation will happen again but there will be no Stanislav Petrov to save us this time. If there are alternate universes, there are definitely millions of versions of our parents trying to survive the nuclear winter, and this is one of the few universes most of us even exist...

[@prakashparihar5245]

What if japan never went in the period isolated

[@リアプロ]

Here's my guess In order for that to happen, Ishida Mitsunari has to win the Battle of Sekigahara and unite Japan. Since the Tokugawa was very conservative and feared foreign influence on Japan. But even if Mitsunari decides to expand, it'll face significant challenges since the nation is unstable from the civil war. So he will have to stabilize the country first. Which will take at least a hundred years. And if the Mitsunari Shogunate still wants to expand, the only place they can really go is Sakhalin and the Kuril islands. However, the country will be less stable than how it was during our timeline when the Americans arrive, thus they have a higher chance of failing the Meiji Restoration. The fate of the country decides there.

[@jesper9212]

so they won their first invasion of Korea?

[@JP-rf8rr]

I mean the whole "what if Japan became Christian" more or less answers that.

[@slyninja4444]

Here's my scenario (inspired by a few others). Japan would still need to deal with the Christian problem. Hence they might end up sending Christian Daimyo and Samurai of to war (to deliberately kill them off). They would also probably be able to take Ym-mif (Nivkh name for Karafuto/Sakhalin), the Kuril Islands, Taiwan, and Maharlika (Philippines). With an equal military (with their own mass produced firearms), and being much closer to these territories, the europeans would probably give up on these lands. The Spanish and English influences on Tagalog would be replaced with Japanese Influences. With Maharlika in hand, it is also possible that Japan grabs up some territory in the east indies (the spices attracted many nations). Taiwan in this time would possibly be a mix of Japanese and Taiwan aboriginal culture (with Taiwan much farther away and Japan having a much smaller population than China would mean that demographic displacement in Taiwan would be to a much lesser extent.). I doubt Japan could actually conquer Siberia (and even if they do they would not have a large enough population to assimilate the natives) However, the would probably have some settlements on the coast. Korea in this timeline would be significantly more powerful. Given Japan being right on their doorstep, it would probably mean Korea (Joseon) would be involved in an arm's race with Japan (given the Japan sending their Christian population to die in places like Korea), and thus have a much stronger army. Meaning any gunboat diplomacy in either of these nations would be significantly harder. Korea would probably be able to break free of China's Tributary system as an independent empire. Speaking of China... The Manchus still go on to conquer China, Mongolia, Tibet, and Uyghurstan. (Qīng Dynasty) However the Japanese would put the Chinese in an interesting situation. On one hand the Japanese (having took Karafuto) could be an ally against Russian expansion (aka, Russia annexing outer manchuria would be significantly harder given Russia's traveling distance vs Japan's traveling distance). However, the introduction of firearms would put the Manchus at an impasse. On one hand they would need to protect themselves from outside invasions (China, Korea, Russia, and others), but on the other hand had to be careful of rebellion (in the OTL, the manchus did develop a firearm, but did away with it as they feared the Han Chinese rebelling). And in case you're wondering, NO. Japan colonizing the Americas is increadably unlikely. Not just because of the distance, but also because the Americas had little to nothing the Japanese wanted (or at the very least everything the Americas offered was possible to get elsewhere). It would literally take Japan discovering Gold (from OTL's goldrush) in California to get them to do it (which is incredibly unlikely). In the end, the closest real world empire to ATL's Japan is the Ottomans. A non European Empire that was open to the world, and did evetually modernize. (In this world I wouldn't be suprised if Japan still adopts western clothing, hairstyle, etc like the Ottomans did).

[@slyninja4444]

@Alainikus I don't really think so. I think things would probably be very similar to today. A lot of the discoveries and inventions attributed to the renaissance actually originated in the middle east. In addition, the Jihads were just as bad as the crusades. Hence if the Middle east discovered America instead of Europe, the same things would have happened. (Note that the sahara being a vast desert might fuel exploration). People would be wearing Arab garb as casual wear and writing in the Arabic script. Again, it probably won't be like this (aka same historical events). But my point is that many of the basic problems with European colonialism, probably wouldnt be that different if it were Middle Eastern colonialism instead.

[@eros330762]

"Rio wouldn't be some hyper-developed paradise, it would be a dingy city with decaying buildings." haha imagine that

[@ComradePhoenix]

"Radiation also causes nuclear winter" I'm gonna stop you right there. Its the soot-filled smoke from firestorms caused by the bomb that would cause nuclear winter, not the radiation. Although, considering the necessary firestorm happened only once out of the two times nukes were actually used in warfare, and that was under ideal conditions (i.e., cities made out of wood and paper, the two most flammable building materials known to mankind), and there are no nuclear targets that are made out of wood and paper (rather, they're made of notoriously non-flammable concrete and steel), its likely that nuclear winter isn't a justified fear. Not even Saddam's oil fires in Kuwait managed to produce the cooling effect that was predicted, so unless you're using your nukes on patches of forest filled with dry brush that hasn't been burned in several years, you're not gonna get a firestorm. And if you are doing that, you're wasting valuable munitions for literally no gain. You'd be much better off striking a target that has already been nuked, if you have that many surplus nukes after the first exchange.

[@davidhobbs5679]

Yeah this channels understanding of the science behind things is....limited to say the least. I still think a nuclear winter is possible (there would be debris from any area nuked) but from what I have read it would be closer to the Tambora erruption in scale at most and last for only a year or two. Not to mention it would be isolated to the northern hemisphere almost entirely. So global south doesn't actually care if a nuclear war goes up, other than the few cities in the aouth nuked.

[@ComradePhoenix]

@@davidhobbs5679 said debris is too large and massive to get high enough to avoid washing out. And Tambora utterly dwarfed the Tsar Bomba (which itself dwarfs any nuke that would actually be used in WW3). So there's no hope for a 5 MT nuke (for the sake of argument) to propel an appreciable amount of small particulate matter into the stratosphere, and multiple 5MT nukes likely won't make a difference.

[@davidhobbs5679]

@@ComradePhoenix i was just thinking in aggregate because there was something like 10k nukes in the US and USSR stockpiles. But yeah could be wrong on that. I know all the papers were based on expected Firestorms.

[@shaydowsith348]

Firestorms are very possible if you nuked california in fire season.

[@ComradePhoenix]

@@shaydowsith348 But that still doesn't give you the scale of firestorm necessary to significantly contribute to the cooling effect. At best, you'd get a nuclear haze instead of a nuclear winter. These firestorms need to be large scale on a local/regional level *AND* widespread globally.

[@nathanseper8738]

Man, this was a really good analysis. You should write a fictional book set in this alternate world.

[@Boss-dr2zk]

3:37 Mongolia: yeah we and our sheep are safe between the USSR and China, everything is fine

[@nonogogo3173]

If I became a millionaire, I'd hire you to be my personal history teacher

[@gove4103]

I'm glad to see you address the fetishisation of nuclear weapons effects. I think you might be overestimating the chance of a nuclear winter though. To optimize the destructive potential of a nuclear weapon, it must be detonated at a relatively high altitude. Air bursts would not loft significant debris into the air. So, really once you are done with the first set of anti-silo strikes, the need for ground bursts is basically gone. Another thing, I think, would be aluminium becoming the primary basis for the money supply. Aluminium is a very useful metal, and it is nearly impossible to make without advanced industrial processes. The result would be scrounging for pre-war aluminum scraps to reuse.

[@JediAcolyte94]

What if the Meiji Restoration failed? What if the Raid on Harper's Ferry actually succeeded? What if the Alamo never fell?

[@MrDylan2125]

The Raid on Harper's Ferry succeeding would be really cool to see.

[@adamhauskins6407]

@@MrDylan2125 it would be a race war in the 1860s so that kinda writes itself

[@adamhauskins6407]

That being said the effects of black America being genocided would be interesting

[@ephennell4ever]

An interesting consideration: if a modest sized American city well-located for water-based transport and in a food-producing region, happened to have one of it's incoming nukes fail to detonate (not a low-probability event, given Soviet quality-control - or lack thereof), and the other one 'misses' by much more than expected ([see previous comment]). This city, of perhaps 1/3-million people, if it were also a state capital, would likely become - fairly quickly - the center of a 'new nation-state'! Your Kentucky speculation would in that case become a near-certainty; only a total failure of the local/regional social and political elites to organize (re-organize) would keep it from happening! Initially the Counties bordering on it from neighboring states would join the 'Bluegrass Republic' to help survive/stabilize their own situations; then further expansion would likely come from a combination of the new Republic looking to prevent the establishment/growth of nearby threats along with some areas looking to join to secure their own possible future growth (& to thwart hegemonic growth of, and absorption by, *unfriendly* neighbors). By the silver anniversary (25 years) after 'Warday', the Bluegrass Republic might have borders extending out 150-200 miles from Kentucky's borders! Allying with the Texahoma Republic and a couple other stable regional polities could create quite a synergistic expansion for all concerned - not to mention strengthening resistance to possible 'unfriendlies'! Hmm, this sounds like a story I'd like to read (from a good author!) ... maybe I should run it by Harry Turtledove? Or is he already gone?

[@spaceman081447]

@ Eric Awalt RE: ". . . maybe I should run it by Harry Turtledove?" Speaking of Harry Turtledove, try his book The Disunited States of America. It describes an America in which the states never did unite under a federalist constitution; they remained as separate nations.

[@ephennell4ever]

@@spaceman081447 ... wonderful, what an uplifting thught - Balkin Americas!

[@libertatemadvocatus1797]

Most cities significant enough to be nuked actually had about four nuclear warheads aimed at it. The reasons are because a single nuclear warhead might fail to detonate and that it takes several nuclear explosions to destroy a city to the point were you'd killed most of its population and destroyed it's industrial/strategic/military value.

[@Simlan12345]

Sounds a lot like Doomsday 1983.

[@spaceman9599]

Hard to grow food with no sunlight.

[@prakashparihar5245]

What if Indo-China remain united after kicking french ruler and were under Nationalist

[@harshparihar8742]

Please do this also

[@GamingPenguin4545]

You failed to mention that Australia is also a moderatley large food exporter and materiel exporter

[@aussiedonaldduck2854]

Exactly. After his comments about the great Australian Pie, I shall never subscribe to this channel or like any of this heathens videos. A pox on Whatifalthist and all his works. Next he will be mocking Fish & Chips. How dare you sir!

[@King_Steffon_II]

These cold war alternate histories are always great and you make it extremely grounded and realistic.

[@TheRealHungryHobo]

Awesome video, the only detail you seemed to miss out on is nuclear fallout. The thing with nuclear winter is that so much radioactive dust and debris gets launched up into the atmosphere that it blocks out the sun, so even areas of the world that weren't directly targeted will have famines and mass death. Over time that dust falls and collects on the ground, again, even in places that weren't targeted. I don't know the exact number of warheads it would take to eject that much material into the atmosphere, but at some point the cumulative effects of each individual blast, wherever it is, become lethal everywhere on earth.

[@galileofrank5779]

My main question with these scenarios is: why would nuked governments collapse? The Soviet Union and the US both had complex bunker complexes so that the highest officials could survive hits to their capital cities. Historically governments have been very resilient towards mass destruction sans occupation, just look at the empire of japan in 1935. My hypothesis is that the governments would survive and keep the country together while trying and failing to repair the massive damage to cities, all while continuing to prosecute the war against one another. The Soviet Union would likely fall to invasion, since NATO would still be able to move troops if the government stays alive.

[@MarcosAlexandre-no3qx]

It's simple, the survivors would remember what they did and How they hide themselves

[@MishaFlower]

Depends on how severe the bombing is, If every inch was bombed it would probably callapse.

[@afroartist1086]

The governments that would survive probably wouldn't be able to regain control since the people would blame their governments for the nuclear war and be unwilling to trust or cooperate with if not outright attempt to destroy them.

[@Отвратительнодлинныйчай]

(I am sorry for mistakes, English is not my first language) Remember that traveling or communicating from the capital will be nearly impossible after the war. Even surviving, the government, for example, for the Moscow, won't be able do ensure their control over, say, Volgograd, not mentioning Vladivostok and other far cities. Even if they'll be able to send them a telegram or so, in many places some people from military would simply not obey, and in other places that won't be able to hold power, so the central government will most likely be "one of the warlords", controlling the capital and nearby areas and also giving orders to some other "warlords", who for any reason would still obey. And if we consider the state of the capital at this point, the government would have no chance to reunite the country, they can only hope to control some parts of it

[@TheFinalChapters]

The US is a democracy. While plenty of finger pointing would happen, the people would not just decide "hey, you're not in charge anymore". It would not make sense for most states to "rebel" against the weakened federal government in this world, as they have more to gain by cooperating than fighting.

[@gabrielsa9751]

I was reading a book called "The Third World War, August, 1985" by the conceal of generals of the NATO and its amazing

[@edwardmiessner6502]

Back in the late '00s or early '10s I read a scientific article that concluded that a nuclear war in which 2,000 nukes were used resulted in a 20 year mini ice age

[@tom_sundog]

That was the most cursed sponsor transition I have ever witnessed oml

[@WednesdayAddamsMW]

"China was an American ally". Not exactly. They just happened to dislike the Soviets more than they disliked us.

[@Lloyd_lyle]

In an alternate timeline: *what if the Cold War didn’t go nuclear?* He said the internet would still exsist, the Cold War would probably be known as WW3 though so...

[@oitubeman1019]

I have heard of this timeline which is called 1983:doomsday. You should go check it out. It’s pretty good

[@hadtrio6629]

1st what if the USSR was forced to join the axis instead of the allies & what if they won & a cold war between Nazi Germany & USSR starts how's it gonna be. 2nd what if the 1st communist revolution happened in the US instead of Russia 3rd what if the Scandinavians were all united in the start of the viking age and started a conquest in Europe similar to the mongols & Arabs (refer to the British isles as Britgard or Britainheim in this timeline) 4th what if in the 2 times that Suleiman the magnificent besieged Vienna he took it 5th what if Ireland was the one to unite the British isles & not England & Scotland

[@birbseesall1529]

@@guardianevan8406 All of these except #4 are very unlikely

[@smorcrux426]

All these seem really unlikely and even if they would have happened they wouldbt habe changed much.

[@hadtrio6629]

@@birbseesall1529 nope they can do the 1st just hold the USSR responsible too for Poland

[@hadtrio6629]

@@smorcrux426 no they're possible

[@birbseesall1529]

@@hadtrio6629 Um... the Soviets never had any intention of allying the Nazis. They would never fight side by side against the allies. Both of them were planning on backstabbing the other the moment they signed the Molotov-Ribbentrov Pact.

[@greymagic857]

so, unlike what people think, the world will eventually recover. That's actually cool, even if it takes a couple centuries..

[@forgottensage-o5o]

Ugh! I gotta constantly stop your videos so that I can pursue what you put on the screen. It would help to keep some of the images up longer. Fantastic job by the way - you are amazingly young and amazingly intelligent!

[@novazephyrose6490]

What if Majorian succeeded? He ruled from 457 - 461 and in turn crushed the visigoths, burgundians, suebi and reducing them back into foederati status and he prepared to launch an invasion to reconquer africa from the vandals but his Magister Militum ( Ricimer ) betrayed him and had the vandals destroy his invasion fleet. We know that Geiseric the vandal king knew he would have no chance if Majorian landed on Africa, So that begs the question....What if Majorian succeeded?

[@dariuszgaat5771]

Rome was already too weak.

[@austinbeattie2694]

Every ruler in charge after the nuclear war: The Republic will be re-organized, into the First [nation name] Empire!

[@oitubeman1019]

first soviet empire hmmmmm

[@shaydowsith348]

And then there will be peace ... palpatine

[@vejet]

0:50 Perhaps the most important person in world history that no one knows about, along with Vasily Arkapov. I probably wouldn't be alive today if not for these men, it's shameful that Petrov died living in poverty.

[@cheesehead9555]

Continuing with your Kentucky example, mostly because I live there, it has a variety of advantages that could help it out. It holds most of The U.S.’s Gold reserves at Fort Knox, which I could see becoming the de facto currency after the collapse of America. It does not have oil, which would hurt its chances of succeeding, but it has a whole lot of horses, which is probably the next best thing. In the east, there are plenty if coal mines, which might make it possible to maintain electricity to some degree. Being landlocked and mostly rural, It would not be of much strategic value for the Soviet Union to nuke it. Through the Ohio River, it would have access to the Atlantic, although it would have to go through a lot of states to get there. Overall, I think it would do relatively well in this alternate history.

[@corcaighogormghus4618]

7:22 hahah brilliant wording

[@rifqihatta]

Well if that happens I'm just going to take a sip from my trusty Vault 13 Canteen

[@safehavenonice6431]

"The nations nuked would immediately become more decentralized" I MEAN THAT"S ONE WAY TO PUT IT, YOU'RE NOT TECHNICALLY WRONG.

[@legchairhistorian5496]

I feel like you didn’t talk about Sweden and and Finland enough. They were neutral and all around would be nuked and fragmented countries. I think that Karelia would become firmly Finnish and Norway an important part of Sweden since these countries would have large professional armies and at least Sweden would have a relatively large swath of non nuked good farmland (Skåne) in the very south.

[@leofaulkner9768]

The same would apply for Ireland, making these three countries way bigger parts of the new world he describes I think he should have spent more time talking about nations that would have survived intact

[@AJ-sw8uf]

Africans: HOW THE TABLES HAVE TURNED

[@kubakornijenko1927]

"1bulion deaths is managable " Comerad Stalin aproves.

[@rodritchison1995]

New Zealand is in the best position to survive and thrive. 1600 ocean miles from the nearest external city (Hobart). Massive hydro power works. Same latitudes south as is California north. Thermal possibilities. Problems: lack of petroleum reserves; lack of heavy industry; earth quakes. Rail system decrepit.

[@fiercetoast8338]

I wanna write a book about this now. As an Australian, a world in which an ANZAC federation is one of the great powers is incredibly interesting to me.

[@Joleyn-Joy]

16:27: note, after the oil crisis Brazil went full in support of ethanol to achieve independence. Nowadays people still prefer gas over ethanol but Here were discussing post nuclear war, people don't have a choice to be comfortable. Going to ethanol might be the way for agricultural countries, although it would completely depend on the climate.

[@JesterEric]

What if Abraham Lincoln lived? How would he be remembered now if he had carried out his favoured African repatriation policy

[@JontyLevine]

You learn so much actual history by watching alt history. I for one didn't know about Stanislav Petrov before now and I wish more people did. By doing his job with a careful and critical eye, he saved the world, and received very little reward for it. But he is the type of person we should all be taught to emulate. I can't believe there aren't statues of him or something.

[@harshparihar8742]

What if Soviet union joined axis

[@Robert0Pirie]

Not terribly plausible. That would require a world where Hitler wasn't vehemently against communism and hadn't been preaching for the "need" of "lebensraum." A world where that "living space" wasn't always pointed right at the European plain from Berlin to the Urals. Western Russian land was the prize he had promised the German people. The only reason Hitler invaded France first was to take them out before turning on Russia. He didn't want a two front war and, much to his demise, he got one. Basically, you're asking for a world where Nazi Germany lacks 50% of its rhetoric and that's such a big change there might not be an Axis to join. Hitler and Goebbels were pushing this fictional link between Communism and "Global Judaism." To them and their followers the two were one in the same, having the Soviets as allies was the literally last thing Hitler would have ever considered.

[@jonathonmcknight1416]

@@Robert0Pirie In fact, Hitler was so against Communism, it was likely he planned on having US aid against the USSR, provided Germany could knock out both France and Great Britain fast enough.

[@Alias_Anybody]

The more plausible thing would have been that Hitler pushed his revenge plans against Britain&France back and allied the Americans against the "Red threat".

[@fluff5]

What if usa joined axis

[@Robert0Pirie]

@@fluff5 still not very plausible, but more likely than the CCCP joining. There were NAZI sympathisers and even rallies in the US before the war... however it was always a tiny minority politically.

[@biropgrules]

frankly, this sounds so much more interesting than the usual apocalypse story.

[@tom_sundog]

Seems like the first half of the vid talks about how the world would actually be okay, and the second half is like nah it'd dissolve into war and starvation, what about mass immigration to Brazil and South Africa?

[@roi2851997]

Probably not that likely in Brazil, as travel would be far more restricted than nowadays. South Africa was an apartheid state so they'd probably keep strong border controls.

[@plusxz821]

Nuclear winds go directly to brazil look at a wind map

[@dx3217]

Every single writer, video maker and others on the subject of nuclear war: *the end of hope and humanities extinction and at best a strugle of a couple hundred survivors* This man on the subject of nuclear war: *1 billion people death and what is essentialy the fall of Rome all over again*

[@maarten9272]

That food insecurity chart isn't very accurate though. It's true that the Netherlands imports much of what it consumes (wheat mostly) but on the other hand we also export most of our own food production. Few countries rival us in meat production, and we supply Germany and Russia (combined 230 million citizens) with much of their cheese consumption.

[@Echowhiskeyone]

"What if the Cold War Went Nuclear?" The world would go MAD. (Mutually Assured Destruction)

[@LuisAldamiz]

We used to say: "then kiss your children and say goodbye".

[@genericwhitekidthesecond4330]

18:52 unless New York City were to be completely fucking poundcaked into nothing I find it highly odd that only 30 years after the war that all of Manhattan Island would be a flat grassland full of trees. With only 30 years to move on after a nuclear apocalypse New York City would still show plenty signs of the old civilization which existed before from scattered skyscrapers and mostly overgrown streets here and there. Hell even a thousand years after humans cease to exist our cities would still stand as a memory to us, even if barely.

[@redenginner]

I don’t know. All I know is that two hundred years later a courier will come back from the dead in goodsprings and decide the fates of multiple empires.

[@flawlessbinary7449]

MAD doesn’t exist anymore, and it’s more terrifying.

[@noahfischer3088]

Maybe a new mad with biological weapons will start after they ate really used in something horrifying

[@lanceyoung9955]

I remember reading a news article several years about a report the New Zealand Government did in the 80s about what it might face in the event of a Nuclear war. Main thrust seemed to be that the country would survive but there would be massive shortages of medicine and pretty everything else that had to be imported. So life would be a lot tougher and for many a lot shorter, but I think the description used in the article, was that most NZers would be doomed to survive a nuclear war and the main threat would be boats filled with armed refugees from the Northern Hemisphere.

[@davidtaylor351]

To me that is looking at it completely the wrong way!! And it wouldnt be the primary focus of official govt planning. That would focus on coping with the aftermath and ensuring the country's social cohesion and ability to deal with it. Anyway, everything would be relative after a nuclear war!! So of course there would be collateral problems following such a conflict!! Even though the country hadn't been nuked! The world wouldnt be the same! However in relative terms. First people would be alive! Many in other countries would have perished. There would be plenty of natural resources to hand. Plenty of, relatively unspoiled land and water resources. So there would be the capacity to grow and produce enough food. And produce a surplus. There would be no shortage of shelter or the ability to construct and repair housing and other buildings. The country could still produce electricity. Make and repair machinery, maintain and run vehicles for quite a time. NZ does actually produce oil. And can produce bio fuel. There would still be a railway system. Locomotives and rolling stock. And the capacity to maintain them. There would still be doctors nurses, hospitals and people with medical knowledge. In that regard. It is a question of making the most of what you have. There would be Police, civil defence, emergency services, and engineers. Anyway NZ would be in a better position than countries that had suffered direct nuclear strikes! And it wouldnt be that long before communications with Australia were restored! A few months not years. And armed or not. I doubt many nuclear refugees who managed to get to NZ. Would be looking to fight anyone! They would be looking for, by comparison, a safe haven. A chance to have a life again! Anyway given the circumstances. Many NZrs would also be armed. Both officially, Military, Military Reservists, ex Military available for call up plus Police etc. And civilans - unofficially! But in the circumstances - accepted for a period. So overall. Count your blessings!!

[@lanceyoung9955]

@@davidtaylor351 All fair points. Interestingly I think the Covid outbreak with NZ effectively closing it borders, how the government handled things and the cargo backlogs that resulted for a while, have provided an idea of how a New Zealand facing a world crisis would react.

[@jaxsonwilliams1458]

*hikes portion of Appalachian Trail* "I KNOW WHAT HUMANS CAN BECOME IN THEIR DARKEST HOUR." Lol easy tiger

[@leifleoden5464]

I love these alternative history channels, I listen to them all the time. Never before has the turning point been so simple as "this one dude opted out of following orders." And the fact that he did so in the Soviet Union, where not following orders would have carried the highest possible price!? Someone give this Stanislov Petrov guy a congressional medal of Freedom, Nobel Peace Prize, hell make a whole new prize called the "Stanislov Medal of Holy Shit you Saved Humanity!"

[@jesusfreak1700]

I’m smoking 🚬 “Nukem” yeah buddy!

[@swagmundfreud666]

A rather minor side note, but the dialects of English in American and Canada would split extremely quickly. Without a national education system pushing a standard dialect, and no TV or internet where you can hear other accents, the accents that are very different from yours would split incredibly quickly and mutual intelligibility would decrees too. If someone lived their whole life in America and never once heard the accent of a British person I'm skeptical of their ability to understand each other if they met one. This would be increased even more by the massive increase in illiteracy. Even those few who have some knowledge of reading would likely just know the alphabet and maybe some extra rules here and there, so people would just write how they sound things out. cuz ya see afder da grayt wor peeplerna right lighk dis n idl be baste on der loekl axn n idl mayk da dighlex eevin mor difrint.

[@TheFinalChapters]

I do not believe that the US federal government would collapse. I believe even less the idea that different states would turn into warring tribes against each other rather than stay united. Even at the height of the cold war, enough elites would survive that they would be able to form a limited federal government (although a lot would be delegated to the local level due the loss of beauracratic functions).

[@bevbevan6189]

So Iceland nuked out of existence at 3:35 map, but not nuked at 3:21 map. It's those damned geysers again.

[@atom6258]

Can i just say that wales would not survive as mid wales houses the town of brecon. The military operation here is that in event of neclear war brecon would become the main point of communication in and out of britain. Thanks for reading and i hope you found this interesting

[@ericboom1712]

Me who lives in sweden: Yay! Sweden was not nuked! Wait... Why is it snowing?

[@8is]

I do wonder how us Swedes would come out in this situation.

[@8is]

@David Garcia Sounds really dangerous. People would be starving and under the weak control of warlords. Violence would be everywhere as the person with the most guns would be able to get the most food. But I doubt local warlords would have the resources to really control a local population, so crime and unlawfulness would be everywhere. Especially when everyone is desperate for food, medicine, etc. As long as the Swedish government survives and is able to control its territory, I see little reason to move, even if there is a famine.

[@ericboom1712]

@David Garcia probably not, the ones who try would probably die on the way, the swedes who would survive would have been prepers, people who hid in bunkers or possible farmers and maybe the military which would have a relatively large supply of food compared of the rest of the world.

[@mnn7723]

If cold war went nuclear it would be called hot war

[@oitubeman1019]

why say it twice

[@Lochness19]

I'm not so optimistic. In the Medieval era when crop failures were more common, people could survive by importing food from other regions, and they also had larger grain stockpiles because they knew famines were a risk. Neither of those two options can be relied upon as much this time. Furthermore, the current agricultural yields are highly dependent upon advanced inputs, like fertilizers, machinery and the energy required to run them. Many of these are not produced locally - chemical fertilizers (potash) mainly comes from the Canadian Prairies and Russia. Petroleum comes from only certain regions as well. Extracting and refining those resources requires advanced machinery and industrial infrastructure. A small isolated nation state probably wouldn't be able to produce all the components on its own, therefore a breakdown of global trade or even continental scale trade would be hugely damaging. Therefore, we would need to somehow restore/maintain trade links and rebuild any industrial capacity that got destroyed by the nukes. Rebuilding would be difficult, and we would need to have some sort of remaining industrial capacity with which to rebuild with. Informational infrastructure for re-training people would also be important (ie the internet). This might mean that nations like the United States get colonized by nations like Brazil (and Argentina) if Brazil does indeed escape nuclear attacks, although Brazil probably wouldn't be able to help much initially since it would need to get it's own internal supply chains in order (and get through nuclear winter). Therefore, chaos will likely reign long enough in North America and Eurasia that it will collapse into the Middle Ages at best. Problem is most people still don't know how to farm and sustain themselves the old fashioned way. People will hunt, but eventually they may run out of ammo, and the amount of people these regions can support through hunting is too small. Furthermore, there will almost certainly be overhunting due to the starvation conditions, so after a few months, virtually no-one can be supported through hunting, with the exception of some remote areas that the desperate hunters would have a hard time accessing (Northern Canada, Siberia). Although there will probably be some people who can farm the old fashioned way, such as Mennonites and Amish, and perhaps some immigrants from rural third world villages, it will still be a huge challenge. You might have about a million surviving as hunter gatherers in remote parts of North America and a few million surviving in Medieval style farming communities in the temperate parts of North America, but >95% of the population would be screwed.

[@oitubeman1019]

but they would’ve had 80s tech to work with

[@Lochness19]

@@oitubeman1019 True, so no internet for people to learn the new necessary skills. Third world agriculture was only just beginning to be modernized so they could probably transition back to traditional agriculture relatively. Western Europe and North America would probably have to bring in immigrants to help farm and offer them a high status in society in exchange. The collapse of the American power grid and manufacturing would still cause mass chaos though. As would the lack of equipment needed for small scale local food processing and food preserving. The US was already processing food in large centralized plants by then, and importing a lot of food in the winter. Even things like getting old fashioned ploughs that can be pulled by animals might be an issue. Not to mention getting the animals.. A lot of the US doesn't have that many horses and virtually no oxen and mules. I'm not sure how well beef cattle or dairy cows would work as beasts of burden... probably not very well at all.

[@oitubeman1019]

@@Lochness19 but those in Australia and new Zealand (and basically south america and south africa) would have the internet down the line at some point in the 90s or early 2000s

[@Lochness19]

@@oitubeman1019 That assumes large swaths of the world recover back to where they were before the nuclear war within just a few years, which seems unlikely to me. (also the internet is meaningless without personal computers which came out of the Bay Area mostly)