What if the Strv 103 had ERA? | 125mm 3BM9 APFSDS vs S-Tank with ERA | Armour Penetration Simulation

[@SYsimulations]

To clarify, in-service Strv 103's never featured ERA but it may have been investigated. The design of the ERA shown here is purely hypothetical, but it's an interesting possibility to consider. It should also be noted that 3BM9 is from the mid-60's; a more period correct comparison will be coming soon.

[@broworm1]

" but it may have been investigated" reading like the announcement of a new WoWs ship ;) Still, very nice hypothetical proven by the simulation!

[@UkrainianPaulie]

Sorry to break it to you, it is all hypothetical. Everything. The only way to actually know is live fire demos.

[@alaric_]

The vehicle was on it's way out and no magic trick would've made it viable on the battlefield after the Konkurs and other similar missiles became widespread in the 80's. Now, with top-down attacks, the armor of it would be even more vulnerable as it's thin and flat armor.

[@juusolatva]

the upgraded Swedish Centurions known as Strv 104 did have ERA, although it was probably Blazer ERA bought from Israel.

[@grandadmiralginger]

The prototype was the strv103D that one was tested with nera and era

[@TheTeddyGuy28]

I really liked the secondary simulation showing what equivalent raw armor mass would have done. Great video.

[@blankspace998]

It would be really great to see how would Leopard 1 front and side armour react on Kontakt-1 triggered on its surface. There are a lot of arguing whether Leopard 1 can or cannot be equipped with ERA.

[@JV-sk5rl]

Indeed. I am very happy and pleased.

[@Klovaneer]

@@blankspace998 Technically anything with about 20mm of steel armor should handle K-1 just fine and at the very least the T-72B's turret roof which supports K-1 is 45mm which is still thinner than Leo 1's UFP. Biggest hurdle is mounting points but you could just drill into armor too, not a fast process for sure.

[@blankspace998]

@@Klovaneer that's the thing. It's all "technically". And also I've heard that it's 30mm that is the limit. So we need simulation to see for sure.

[@Klovaneer]

@@blankspace998 30mm is pretty good news for Leo 1 and Strv 103. K-5 might be out of scope but 45mm is apparently still enough for Relict.

[@сижувподвале]

0:15 did... did the era just do more damage to the armor than the projectile itself?

[@johnfrancisterne1072]

Considering the thinness of the STRV's armor, it's pretty expected

[@sukositb]

There is a reason why the photo of mobik in ukraine putting ERA on trucks and BTR because they think it will protect them is hilarious.

[@Acclamator44]

no, infact look at sysims video called : "T-72 vs Strv103 | 125mm 3BM9 APFSDS Armour Piercing Simulation" it shows allmost the same situation, just without the era

[@KorianHUN]

​@@sukositbthe trucks have empty blocks, simply using the steel housing itself as armor.

[@shaddaboop7998]

ERA doesn't just counteract shaped charges, it also significantly degrades APFSDS. Kontakt-5 (hybrid ERA/NERA) adds the equivalent of 300mm of steel for any APFSDS projectile that hits it (source: Prof. Paul Hazell). And even just a basic slab of explosive will significantly degrade APFSDS by dispersing its kinetic energy, deforming it through heat and pressure, and potentially even shattering it.

[@alsanchez5038]

Thank you!

[@SYsimulations]

Thank you for the support! :D

[@gargean1671]

Testing 1990s hypothetical ERA arragement against 3BM9 is... Optimistic)

[@SYsimulations]

Indeed, there will be a more period-correct comparison coming soon

[@NexIHateYT]

It's Relikt, so 2010s

[@acr_master5594]

I like these simulations better, a lot more interesting test ideas and what ifs and not boring things that already exist

[@pavelslama5543]

"If you angle a sheet of tin foil enough, its gonna stop a battleship round" - Swedes, probably

[@Matt-rq3bu]

lol.

[@blankspace998]

It would be really great to see how would Leopard 1 front and side armour react on Kontakt-1 triggered on its surface. There are a lot of arguing whether Leopard 1 can or cannot be equipped with ERA.

[@commitselfdeletus9070]

Makes me wonder what you’d get if you slapped relikt onto it and fired a modern round at it like dm53 or 3bm60. The added disturbance might just make it work

[@dominuslogik484]

The ERA might also blast through the tank on its own lmao

[@firesb7791]

@@dominuslogik484 Yeah if you were going to armor up a lighter vehicle like this with ERA, you would need some backing plates, similar to the ERA the Russians developed for BMP-3

[@dominuslogik484]

@@firesb7791 definitely, although this thing is already not in use anymore I honestly would have enjoyed seeing it get modernized to meet todays standards. its also one of the few vehicle designs that a big cage over the top would not necessarily hurt its capabilities but allow for cheap protection against drones.

[@OVER-ce9fy]

​@@dominuslogik484they are implementing ERA on every BMP 3 coming from a factory since February

[@boshi_coyo]

​@@dominuslogik484sloped tanks for the win, they need to be looked into more. I swear sloped armor can be really good if given the right circumstances.

[@ditzydoo4378]

Why is this shown without the "Slat" armor bars for the Strv-103?? ERA blocks are meant to deal with shape charge (HEAT) warheads. The Strv-103 had a precursor to Bar-Armor in the form of a Heavy steel bar fence the crew would emplace into the provided holes on the front edge of the hull to defeat HEAT before war deployment. This was a state secret for decades.

[@metaworld567]

The heavy ERA actually did more damage to the plate than the round did.

[@ZapTeam]

Still saved the crew though

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

What if the passive armour plate (0:55) was spaced as the ERA is, not sitting directly on the armour?

[@gheetza14]

Hello. I have, what I think is an interesting "what-if" suggestion. 2 years ago you posted 2 videos, exploring the shot traps of the different Panther mantlet designs. There is a Panther in Thum, Switzerland, that, at first glance, has an A/D mantlet with the bottom side straighened. I was wondering if you could do a third "M72 vs Panther mantlet" video, imagining the germans transitioning to a mantlet of this design, instead of the actual G mantlet. I call this a "what-if" suggestion, because that mantlet is actually a post war sheet metal replacement, missing holes for the gunners sight or a coaxial machinegun. Number of times I commented this: 1 I will _try_ to link a video of it in the replies to this comment, but you know how youtube is about deleting links.

[@gheetza14]

h I have t absolutely t no p ideea s if : this / is / going v to m work, . right t now i I am k simply t writing o words k to . mask c the o link m in / hopes Z it G doesn't e get C deleted 8 by W youtube's 8 filter, D this k is / the fourth comment I have made, all using different methods, thus far all have been useless.

[@مسترشعلة-ن6ل]

Try with a thicker ERA i think it will be interesting to see how APFSDS reactes with it.

[@notachair4757]

Thicker ERA might actual break the armor

[@TheAmazingCowpig]

I still remember the impressive simulation of the Strv 103's bar armor and/or the small ridges doing enough to decap/destabilize the dart the prevent penetration. What the Strv 103 had in real life was honestly impressive enough.

[@288gto7]

Swedes fired a 3bm22 at one after the wall fell and it penetrated the whole tank and exited out the back, not kidding.

[@petermcglone135]

@@288gto7I agree with you, there seems to be a disconnect between these sims and the reality we are seeing especially in Ukraine. These ERAs are suppost to make modern tanks invulnerable against HEAT rounds yet we see even the latest Tanks easily destroyed, western and Russian included. Mind you information about actual effects of APFDS rounds is harder to come by.

[@hehehoho3770]

@@petermcglone135 These cases though aren't catastrophic kills. They are mission or mobility kills, disabling either the drivetrain or gunlaying systems (which are vulnerable even with ERA because they can't be covered). Any burnt out wrecks are usually the result of the tank being immobilized from the damage, then pounded into the ground with artillery.

[@FinnisJaeger]

Do a similar test with the NERA that was planned for strv 103 upgrade!

[@malteschaper3782]

Wow! A very interesting simulation. I always found the Stridsvagen (sp?) A very interesting concept. Technically and politically. The latter because it is designed to be a defensive weapon in contrast to almost all other tank concepts that are designed to be used in offense and defense.

[@WalletWorrier]

But what if the armour was spaced at the same distance as the ERA? That would have a huge impact!

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

APFSDS perform well against spaced and sloped armor. Not that it can't be done, the combination of the two is essentially what the Leopard 2 arrow head is, but its much farther away and sloped quite extremely with a thin NERA layer

[@stephenallen4635]

thats doubtful, the plate is so thin having it spaced at any distance wouldnt affect the penetrator

[@wkzehy3670]

Please, do the same surface but hit with FPV HE.

[@commandergeokam2868]

Pure he or HEAT?

[@patriot-renegade]

You cannot penetrate me, I am too smooth, your darts will simply slide off me.

[@AspectBros]

What do you use to make/run these simulations?

[@dominikgolebiewski2961]

Could you do is2 122mm vs t26e5 „jumbo pershing” frontal plate? It would be nice

[@simonrudholm1710]

Make composite armour for the strv 103

[@stevehildebert8954]

Would it be possible to see M833 versus the 5 layer armor design on 80BV/U/64BV?

[@jamesharding3459]

Really have to wonder what they were thinking with the Strv 103. I get a low profile, but it's less than a foot shorter than a T-64 in the most generous possible interpretation of height, and a T-64 (or equivalent) would be objectively far better in every respect I can think of.

[@hehehoho3770]

Cost. Swedish military needed a lot of tanks for the relatively meagre budget they had at the time, and the s-tank just happened to do ok when dug in and fighting defensively.

[@jamesharding3459]

@@hehehoho3770 Right, but if it’s closer to a towed AT gun in tactical utility and closer to a tank in cost, that seems like a bad investment.

[@hehehoho3770]

@@jamesharding3459 Its mobility is actually decent, and there is also the fact that tanks in its era were only starting to get stabilizers. They found them to be on par or even maybe better than what they had before (leopard 1s?? I forgot), when used in the specific role that I mentioned, and somewhat cheaper.

[@exelibrium]

The funny thing is that the S-tank platform would be quite easy to put spaced drone protection on while still retaining it's manoeuvrability.

[@karelmarkvart1517]

I think ribs would make some difference at this angle - they were part of front armor plate for reason.

[@nrz4000paronmen]

could you do T-72 vs Strv 103 in 2 circumstances (Strv 103 with ERA vs 3BM46 or 3BM9 vs original Strv 103)

[@schmiddy8433]

Seems like the high angle upper glacis is the best case scenario for ERA to improve APFSDS resistance. I wonder how badly the extra weight would affect the suspension though. Considering the intended role of the 103 I don't know that I would say it was totally obsolete, just that its armor was built for a very specific time period and was destined to be overmatched eventually.

[@yoloman3607]

Damn that ERA was supercharged it caved in part of the hull armor

[@a.t6066]

How much gap space would be needed to achieve same effect of non penetration in a standoff armor plate?

[@l0x4gpt]

do 53-G-530 against that plate at the same angle. would be very interesting to see the chances of that 152mm warhead being able to punch through at that same angle.

[@notachair4757]

Could you test telescoping apfsds vs modern tank armor

[@ReviveHF]

Suggestions : 14 mm Bullet proof glass vs 105 mm HESH

[@tedarcher9120]

Put Relikt om and try against m829a3

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

This is why special ERA is used on thin skinned vehicle. Or alternative protective methods are used. The ERA bulged and even cracked the armor a bit.

[@simonp1165]

Impressive!

[@JoanOlléiTosquella-h4r]

Panther 2 vs superpershing cannon please at 750m

[@elongated_musket6353]

Damn, the ERA did more damage to the to the armour than the projectile itself

[@2ex757]

Imagine if it had a system to move the tank during attack to make best angle for bounceing shells

[@Bundesrepublik_Deutschland1949]

RA Is A Variant Of ERA RA Is Built For Solid Projectile While ERA Is Built For Shaped Charge Projectiles Like HEAT-FS ATGM-TD Rockets

[@dnvdappel]

Does this mean the ERA on the M60's are underperforming in War Thunder?

[@Klovaneer]

This is obviously a second generation design, M60 would have something Blazer-adjacent.

[@chasebh89]

"hmm it works great but renders the hull unusable.... denied" or something like that

[@MGKTLGLDLG]

I love the idea, but it seems like era is doing more damage to the plate😂

[@95keat]

IMMORTAL

[@30LayersOfKevlar]

You forgot to model the ribs.

[@stug77]

I like how the ERA just about killed the tankers anyway.

[@KarczekWieprzowy]

I'll never forgive Sweden for ditching the sexy wedges ;__;

[@Pheramix]

Imagine if this thing had double the armor, nothing could stop it

[@belthesheep3550]

Just throw on like, 20mm extra armor, doubling the armor would obliterate the suspension

[@petermcglone135]

The Russians have started doing that, look at the Turtle tank 😂😂

[@King.Leonidas]

don't forget the wedges

[@ricardoricardoricardoricardo]

Now do that with 3BM42.

[@xendk]

Why. The point was to see what effect ERA had not if it could stop the round, a newer round would just go clean trough.

[@ricardoricardoricardoricardo]

@@xendkso? I want an animation of that.

[@salisporakis9350]

The era dealt more damage to the tank than the round

[@S1su]

Now thisnin interesting

[@paolofumarola2319]

3bm9 is hot garbage, if we're talking about proposals from the 90s, 3bm42 mango or 3bm48 would be the weapon of choice. Would, if it weren't from the fact that the ERA mentioned is "heavy", Relikt, I assume, so from even later, 2010s, so... what, 3bm60?

[@IIJosII]

❤

[@espada_i_daga]

Try the Ukrainian nij on strv 103

[@Noname_NoID]

>1990s >3BM9 Emm...

[@SYsimulations]

A more period correct comparison will be coming soon :)

[@Noname_NoID]

​@@SYsimulations can't wait!

[@Cookiechipy]

😮

[@ADobbin1]

If sweden has any of these left they should send em to ukraine. I think these would be really good defensively if modernized.

[@MrTefe]

Good old cheese wedge

[@Mr.Mr.H]

3бм9? этот снаряд даже не предназначен для уничтожения танков, он учебный. хотелось бы увидеть более правдоподобную симуляцию

[@darugdawg2453]

Made obsolete by manpads

[@xendk]

Yes the flying tanks really had a hard time against the Man-Portable Air-Defence Systems. Idiot

[@news_internationale2035]

imagine being in a BT-5 glider with Stingers flying up.​@@xendk

[@tamasvarga5905]

Fake simulation. If this was real then the strv103 would be produced still to this day (or a tank with similar aemor layout).

[@saint_alucardwarthunder759]

I hate this thing in WT, it's the MOST cancerous vehicle in all game...

[@o-hogameplay185]

you forgot CAS

[@saint_alucardwarthunder759]

@@o-hogameplay185 I'm fine with CAS, I'm not fine with schmucks that travel in space and time to bounce shots and kill King Tigers/IS-3s with their autoloading lasgun with pen capability of a Death Star

[@semirzerzour9966]

@@saint_alucardwarthunder759 Ah yes that 1956 vehicle is really going back in time far ! Or if you want to go with the 103A thats a 1967 tank, so the IS3 was contemporary with both the 103-0 and the 103A The Tiger II might not have been around in the 50s and 60s but the STUG and Pz IV was together with the Panther.

[@o-hogameplay185]

@@saint_alucardwarthunder759 you can destroy an STRV with any tank at it's BR. you will struggle against CAS even with the best SPAAs, and normal tanks have zero chance of fighting back. funny how you mentioned the IS-3. just shoot HE at the cupola

[@saint_alucardwarthunder759]

@@semirzerzour9966 this thing is from 1960s and has British L7 gun from the end of 1950s. With that logic IS-4 is from 1944. Aand keep in mind that tank progress back then had 7-mile-leaps each year.

[@andreysaharov9057]

I can smell the pain of Russian trolls... Soviet 125mm APFSDS 3BM9 - did NOT penetrate the old Swedish Strv 103...🤣 Where is "Pabeda"?

[@愛を込めてロシアから]

Andrew why are you so offended by Russian trolls

[@barbarapitenthusiast7103]

I think you might have severe Brain damage, or a troll. But this is a 90s proposed ERA upgrade for the strv103, and 3bm9 is from the 60s.

[@andreysaharov9057]

@@愛を込めてロシアから Probably because they promote war and create the myth of the invincibility of "Russian weapons," "Russian Reich" and "Russian Wehrmacht." This is not good. Besides, I lived in Russia for a very long time and I know very well how toxic most of them are.

[@aea70a]

От це ыздеж !!!!