What If Turkey Was Partitioned? | Alternate History

[@MonsieurDean]

Ask Monsieur Z Anything.

[@doomi4055]

@MonsieurDean What countries you’ve ever been? and What country you’d like to visit?

[@MonsieurDean]

@@doomi4055 I've been around most of North America, but I'd love to see the UK, Austria, Italy, and some of the Balkan states some day.

[@nenenindonu]

Why did you make a 100% one-sided video ? Atrocities weren't only commited by Turks but also Greeks, no mention of any of that ofc

[@msmith1890]

What are your views on Monarchies and why do you like Tsar Nicholas II so much?

[@NathanAurelianus]

How have you been since the fall of the site?

[@JustAToeBee]

Wwhatifalthist's heart broke just because this video exists

[@MonsieurDean]

😂😂

[@xwc1322]

@@MonsieurDean I hope you rot in hell. Did you get 10000 USD from Greeks or something? Even If I was a Greek I couldn't be this biased when making a video.

[@fatheadgaming3584]

Why?

[@JustAToeBee]

@@fatheadgaming3584 because he is a hardcore Turkey fan

[@fatheadgaming3584]

@@JustAToeBee lol

[@georgios_5342]

14:05 if Greece had taken over Ankara all by itself, it is very unlikely that the Treaty of Sevres would actually be enacted as had been initially signed. The treaty would be renegotiated, in a way that Greece would take more territory in Western Anatolia (most likely the regions of Mysia and Bithynia, which had large Greek populations) as well as North Eastern Anatolia, were the large Pontic Greek populations resided. Italy would also lose all of its possessions in Anatolia, as it had already made a separate agreement with Turkey, which allowed it to pass troops through the Italian zone, and Greece vowed to eliminate the Italian zone, even if it meant that Turkey would be given the land. And, after all that, it is more likely than not that Greece would attempt to take over Constantinople, to complete the Megali Idea

[@1212Diablo]

Yeah that made me go "WHAT!?" Why would Greece ever go along with handing territory over to Italy? Massive L there.

[@georgios_5342]

@@1212Diablo Yeah Italy wasn't going to get that land in the first place, especially since they only controlled a small part in the coast. But after allowing the Turks to enter, the zone was essentially lost for them. But also, regardless of that, Greece and Italy had a large rivalry over the naval dominance in the Eastern Mediterranean, with Britain generally supporting Greece. This naval "cold war" was especially evidenced in Albania (where Italy demanded that Greece should retreat from Northern Epirus, and leave it to its Albanian protectorate) and in the Dodecanese (an island chain in the southeastern Aegean, inhabited by Greeks, but colonized by Italy). Also, Italy contested the Greek control of Smyrna. Greece wouldn't just hand over massive amounts of lands to their rivals, especially if Greece was in a position of strength.

[@ylmazirdenyazc8393]

Even though those Regions Greece could take had large Greek Populations, Muslims were still a Majority in many places, even though Aegean Coast would be easier to hold due to its closeness and being more Urbanized, Black Sea regions, with their still Larger Muslim majority, composed of Warlike Chepnis and Lazs especialy in Eastern Black Sea İnhabiting extremely thickly forested Mountanious areas will be the Equivelant of Carthage conquering Gaul from North Africa. Most likely Greece wouldnt wanted to Overextend itself and just remain in the Far wealthier Aegean possesions and maybe Resettling Greeks from Black sea towards these regions to better establish themselves.

[@georgios_5342]

@@ylmazirdenyazc8393 in the 6 regions of Pontus that Greeks claimed, there was a 80% Pontic Greek population (1.2 million). However, it is a fact that Greece would be overextended this way. Venizelos recognized this, and after a briefing with Germanos Karavangelis, the Archbishop of Trebizond, he said that Pontus should make a confederation with Armenia. However after Armenia was defeated by the soviets and Karabekir's forces, the Pontic Greeks declared the Union with Greece. This was only disbanded with the treaty of Lausanne

[@ylmazirdenyazc8393]

​​@@georgios_5342 dude there was no 80% greek majority in Black Sea region, most Ottoman sources as well as British maps and the Wikipedia wich once put the pictures of Coachroaches on the page "Turkish People" agrees that the Majority in the Eastern and Western Black Sea were Laz (a south Caucasian muslim people) and Chepnis (An Oghuz tribe that was originaly adhered to Alewite İslam but was later Sunnified) with significant Pontic Greek communities in Oph valley as well as Trebizond, Amisos and mostly smaller certain valleys, and the Number 1.200.000 isnt just the Pontic Greeks, its the total number of Pontic, Cappadocian and Aegean greeks as well as somewhere between 100.000 to 400.000 Karamanlides (Descendants of Turcopols who are basically Orthodox Central Anatolian Turks) it doesnt help that Ottoman Sources used Religion as distinction not Ethnic, meaning these Minorities within Pontus Region is Pontic Greeks and Armenians combines, for example there was a Catholic Armenian Community within city of Artvin whilst Borçka was inhabited by Muslim Georgians, whilst upwards were Čxala and Xopa Lazs, thats basicaly what the metrics you can Apply to rest of the Black sea.

[@georgios_5342]

11:00 this is often forgotten, but after November 1920, virtually all of the allies of Greece betrayed it AND even stole its money that was stored in American and British banks for the duration of the war. If they had an issue with Constantine, they could have deposed him yet again. The real reason they changed sides was because, after satisfying their own needs by making gains in the Levant, they didn't care at all about the Greeks and Armenians.

[@eidoneverchoosen1171]

Which was a mistake.

[@youravaragetoxicmasculinem9508]

@@eidoneverchoosen1171 It is not because they didn't cared but they didn't had the money and the power to figth against Turks in their homeland which is very mountainus.

[@eidoneverchoosen1171]

@@youravaragetoxicmasculinem9508 their also the fact the British primary didn't want any other European power to threaten their global hegemon,, co steering many European empires care only about getting more resource rich lands for themselves. This is why Europe great empires fell.

[@James-rf1wn]

You don't "betray" a puppet (Greeks, Armenians, Arabs) You let it go. (British)

[@OstasHs]

Turks did not have a chance had it not been for the bolsheviks, the Italians and the French. Yet even under those circumstances the Greeks could have handled Asia Minor but they were divided. Hence the salvation.

[@JoshSullivanHistory]

I'M FINALLY FREE. But in all seriousness, thanks for having me on this month, this was awesome to do.

[@hallelbimpong1901]

Your channel is amazing Josh

[@muhammedtugra5943]

good stuff josh!

[@bobbobb4804]

I’ve always loved your channel

[@RedXlV]

The situation in Greece shows that Venizelos made two key mistakes: 1. Never allow your figurehead king to be near monkeys. 2. When you depose a king, kill him. Otherwise he'll come back for his throne.

[@DCCrisisclips]

Biggest thing is that you should never allow elections during war time

[@cloaker_1707]

5:44 minor error, Constantinople fell in 1453, not 1452.

[@jeffthebovine4158]

Immersion ruined, now I have to neutralize my friends and family and go on the run as an international fugitive. I’m sorry man, I just gotta

[@StalkerX426]

Ye

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Yes! More collaborations! Love you guys for the amazing work!

[@MonsieurDean]

Monsieur 🤝 Josh

[@morsecode980]

What if Germany was Balkanized after WW2? Say the British occupation zone restored the Kingdom of Hanover, the American zone became an independent democratic Bavaria, the French zone a series of protectorates like Saarland, Baden-Württemberg and Hesse, and the Soviet zone became communist Brandenburg and Saxony?

[@MonsieurDean]

That's a clever idea.

[@morsecode980]

@@MonsieurDean Thanks! Heck, you could go even further with this timeline and have the Soviets keep the Germans in Kaliningrad and call it the Prussian SSR, and have Austria remain divided between East and West. The more German states you can create, the better 😂

[@masonhandforth1369]

​@@morsecode980 we can probably go off of the former german states that joined (feel free to debate that) the habsburg in place like a northern tyrol, austria itself and more

[@chickenusgoddus464]

What if the carlists managed to escape to the colonies (or took over Peru which had a lot of royalist support) Or maybe what if the Spanish governor general of the Philippines's plan to conquer china using japanese mercenaries went through Also really enjoyed the vid can't wait for more your definitely the most active alt history channel I know of so this is really scratching that itch

[@MonsieurDean]

We're glad to have you! Hope to you in the comments again next week!

[@georgios_5342]

12:11 Archbishop Chrysostomos of Smyrna was brutally beaten to death and dismembered, his body parts were then paraded throughout the city to terrorize the Greeks. Numerous women were abducted, raped, or murdered inside their houses, and by the end of it, all Greeks had either died or fled to Greece, months before the "population exchange", which was in reality only a normalization of relations after the genocide had already happened

[@ammarhaziq919]

greek army burn smyrna and many greek populated cities when they retreat from central Anatolia, leaving almost half of anatolia in ruins, accusing turk for Smyrna burning doesnt make sense because advancing armies dont burn their own supply line and cities, houses and buildings of the conquered towns/cities can be used as supply depot, but retreating armies do burn everything when they retreating, its called scorch earth policy, so blame Greece and armenian thugs who work for them for setting Smyrna on fire.

[@ylmazirdenyazc8393]

The Genocide wasnt one sided by only Turks though, less then a decade before Balkan wars saw Millions of Muslim Refugees a good chunk being Balkan Muslims like Muslim Greeks, Pomaks, Albanians, alongside Balkan Turks, around 3-5 million fled between Greek war of İndependence and population exchange whilst 2-2.5 million lost their lives, this was also less than 30 years after 800.000 to 1.5 million Circassians forcibly exciled to Ottoman Empire fleeing the Genocide of their Homelands at the hands of the Russians (before you call me a liar, actual biased report is made by Justin McArthy wich i believe you are familiar for his renowned Denial stand (im not a denier thank god) he gives +5 million refugees and 5 million deaths so you can be sure that im not moving off some weird Agenda) Population exchange was merely the end point of Centuries of Ethnic conflict wich didnt Discriminated between neither Muslim or Christian or Civilian and Military. Unlike what international census would want you to believe.

[@James-rf1wn]

Interesting Georgios. Now tell everyone what the Greeks did.

[@AW27007]

We love Josh don't we folks

[@MonsieurDean]

We certainly do! He's not sussy Josh anymore. He's beautiful Josh.

[@NoshaMarble]

​@@MonsieurDean 😢

[@aliceguevarra727]

Aged like milk

[@Tommuli_Haudankaivaja]

Before I even watch this, *BASED*

[@MonsieurDean]

Correct.

[@AduckButSpain]

10:20 "It was a monkey bite that cost the lives of 250,000 people" ~ Winston Churchill

[@vorynrosethorn903]

The Russians supported a Greek state in Constantinople if you count renaming Constantinople to Tsargrad and settling it with Russians as well a possibly making it the Russian capital due to dynastic/religious aims counts as being Greek, the Russians would probably say it was because 'we are the Romans now' but I have a feeling many Greeks would contend that point, especially once the Russians start moving to annex the lost orthodox territories of Rome, like say Greece. And yeah it is a mostly western idea of the Greeks having connection to antiquity, the Byzantine link was much more relevant until ancient Greek fanboys started intervening in national diplomacy, with most of them being liberals and thus massively prejudiced against the byzantines in general and Christians in particular.

[@TheHenrique8791]

Blessed timeline!

[@januarysson5633]

What if Franz Ferdinand of Austria had become first German emperor? EDIT: Franz Josef of Austria

[@MonsieurDean]

How?

[@januarysson5633]

@@MonsieurDean Oops! My bad! I meant to write Franz Josef of Austria who was offered by the German Confederation to be first German emperor but on condition of relinquishing the crown of Hungary which he refused to do. I was wondering what might happen if he had accepted that condition.

[@januarysson5633]

@@theinterestingcompany3191 LOL. I have edited my original comment to correct the name.

[@georgios_5342]

15:17 not only Constantinople, but also Cyprus, which was another important part of the Megali Idea

[@Yasinburak1992]

Welp as Turkic this is gonna be a interesting video Let’s go to the comment section surely it’s gonna be kind and wholesome..

[@MonsieurDean]

"The Descent of the Turk into the Den of Crusaders" A novel by Monsieur Z, coming soon.

[@cursedwanderer1753]

I hope Monsieur Z makes a video in favor of Turkey. Like what if the Turks converted to christianity?

[@DonKrieg-382]

@@cursedwanderer1753 or what if turkey abandons west (it won't be degen and dragqueens wont exist)

[@islammehmeov2334]

In you dreams you infidels convert to ISLAM ​@@cursedwanderer1753

[@theeternalchronicler3072]

KZbin has not notified me for a month that you have made a video. Thanks KZbin

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

13:49 The Greek names of these cities are Δορύλαιον and Κοτύαιον respectively. They are easier to pronounce.

[@georgios_5342]

Based 🇬🇷

[@KennyNGA]

go eat your pita leonidas

[@beetrootsoup3130]

Sorry it's turkish forever now 🇹🇷

[@muhammedtugra5943]

My greek brother, with all my dear condulances, stfu, both turkish and greek is hard af to pronounce for westerners, sincerely, your turkic brotheren.

[@dsaddfgs1186]

@@beetrootsoup3130 based turkish

[@nicolascharlier3183]

Hello from France, I like your channel very much . Just a few things. The Ottomans took Constantinople in 1453, not 1452. During the first world war, the Russians had beaten the Turks in Caucasus, before collapsing in 1917. Sèvres, little city in France near Paris, is pronounced something like ”Seavr” (with ”ea” like in ”bear ”).

[@islammehmeov2334]

Russia did beaten SHITI in caucasus the russian fell to occupied estarn anatolian I'ven with the help of the British 😂

[@Belks1453]

13:38 is when the scenario starts.

[@trainanade6138]

My family was in the massacre of Smyrna and one escaped by pretending to be a girl and the others were starved to death

[@talzzz1546]

And my great great fathers village was burned by the greek army

[@Juan-qu4oj]

@@talzzz1546should have stayed in Central Asia

[@talzzz1546]

@@Juan-qu4oj no

[@Juan-qu4oj]

@@talzzz1546 yeah Turks got a taste of their own medicine

[@DonKrieg-382]

troonjak-ACK!

[@AwwsomeHistoryYT]

If only this was released on Thanksgiving with a different title…

[@ejoji4245]

Im pretty sure if the greek army defeated and occupied ancyra, greece would have pushed for far more territory considering it wasn't only the shores of smyrna and constantinople having greek majority and minority populations

[@loseyourself5023]

as a person who wrote his university thesis about war of Turkish independence this is bullshit even according to foreign sources Greeks and Armenians were huge minority not a minority

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

12:41 You heard it guys. Eastern Thrace was never conquered by the Turks but given up on order of the British. You can thank them for the reason Constantinople is still Muslim.

[@loseyourself5023]

As a Turkish person who visited Greece many times Istanbul is more secular than any Greek city.

[@simulacrumpilot2777]

Turkey would've take it either way. They were in a better position than Greece militarily and Eastern Thrace had a majority Turkish population. So not really Brits.

[@deutschesvaterlandfankanal]

Damn anglo-judas,traitors of evropa

[@deutschesvaterlandfankanal]

​@@loseyourself5023 only time i agreed to a turk

[@bobbobb4804]

@@simulacrumpilot2777 The Turkish military wasn’t in a better position for most of the war and they only overcame after all the allies betrayed Greece and even started helping the Turks and the Greek economy collapsed which also happened because of the allies taking all of their money out of Greek banks. Also eastern Thrace had a majority Greek and Bulgarian population.

[@jossos4876]

I really hoped this Video was about what if Turkey was actually a turkey

[@MonsieurDean]

We will capture him again!

[@MonsieurDean]

🤣🤣 This edit...

[@jossos4876]

@@MonsieurDean just a bit of trolling

[@radored7750]

Awesome, next part would be great

[@jimtalbott9535]

Given the substantial troubles in the Soviet Union in the 20s, I find the idea of an actual Soviet-Allied war somewhat unlikely - more like a “Cold-war Prequel”, with substantial military support for the Turks. BUT, if you did see some sort of actual conflict and occupation of the SU, why not a restoration of the Romanov Dynasty? They WERE allied to Britain and France, were NOT friendly to the Turks, and at this point, Russia had only been under communism for maybe a decade or so.

[@georgios_5342]

5:32 true that. To this day, the majority of Greeks have partial or full Anatolian heritage, and were outraged for example when the Turkish government turned the Panagia Soumela Monastery in a night club, or Hagia Sophia into a Mosque

[@beetrootsoup3130]

When did the night club thing happen

[@ylmazirdenyazc8393]

İf Soumela you meant is the one in Trebizond then its in a really good shape really, unlike the Hagia Sophia of Trebizond its still both a Museum and a major Tourist attraction, just like Mostar Bridge.

[@muhammedtugra5943]

wtf? You think erdogan would allow night clubs?? That aside, the hagia sophia being open for religious usage again is being protested by İstanbul's local goverment, (Ekrem İmamoğlu being a major figure) and that night club thing, when??? I think you mean that one very preserved monastry built on a hillside in trabzon which is, VERY preserved and certainly NOT a night club.

[@veysels9628]

When was the Souméla Monastery turned into a night club..?

[@weremus8639]

Bruh, this was 80% History and 20% what if...

[@joshuawells835]

The most likely outcome from this would be Greece and Turkey gradually taking the Italian and French held areas of Anatolia, while Armenia keeps its territory and Kurdistan likely starts to incorporate Kurdish areas in French Syria and British Iraq. With the loss in territory, do the Hashemites maintain Syria and Iraq and then merge with Jordan to form a Hashemite Kingdom of Arabia to counter Saudi Arabia? Do the Hashemites try to reclaim Mecca and their lands in the Arabian Peninsula? Is there still an Israel?

[@germanempire4605]

Got to be honest, wasn’t expecting the monkey incident.

[@TheHunterOfYharnam]

it was probably germans or pro germans who assassinated the king to bring back Constantine.

[@PenSteel]

6:02 Sure, they might have started rebelling in 1821, but they didn't gain independence until the Treaty of Adrianople in 1829, and it would take another 3 years to get everything sorted drawing the borders and forming the kingdom.

[@mappingshaman5280]

Everyone who isn't turkish or Azerbaijani: *CELLLLLLLEBRATIONS TIME NOW COME ON*

[@MonsieurDean]

😂😂

[@bullmoosevelt4495]

Hell yes! 🇦🇲

[@GaemingStudios]

Turks and Azerbaijanis: mad noises

[@James-rf1wn]

So this is what happens when you get crushed and humiliated on the battlefield.... You resort to making silly videos and silly comments.

[@mappingshaman5280]

@@James-rf1wn lmao when did turks "crush and humiliate" Britain in war? I've checked my maps. Nope, the turks don't control Syria, they don't control Iraq, they don't control Jordan, they don't control hejaz.

[@newenglandexpansionistsoci2613]

I’ve been saying this for a while now. “What if the Black Sea Raid was foiled?” It would make a good counterpart to this video.

[@Trapligo]

Megali idea basically means big idea

[@topmanias5379]

what if the "Plan of casamata" never happens, the idea of a mexican empire led by iturbide would be interesting, Iturbide is a very underrated strategist, the mexican independence movement was likely destroyed by de spanish empire but iturbide with the "Ejercito trigarante" manage to do all de work. It will be interesting to see the war of 1846 with a (maybe) stable empire with a leader like iturbide

[@georgios_5342]

9:41 woooo goooo Venizelos for Megali Idea!!! 🎉🎉🎉

[@00martoneniris86]

What if George 1 of Greece survived his Assassination in thessalonica

[@U87-z2w]

What aid did the French give to Turks? What aid did the Italians give to Turks? Do we consider captured wepons as aid now? Then we can also say Greece helped Turkish war of Independence. Only soviets sent rifles and thats it.

[@gllmll7227]

French aid 10.000 rifle 1.500 machine gun 1.500 crate of ammunition 10 aircraft 200 truck 1 gunpowder factory 3 telegraph station 10 hangar Italian aid 20.000 rifle 20 aircraft 4.310.000 bullet 97.000 kg gunpowder

[@U87-z2w]

@gllmll7227 I know the Soviet help. Where is the source for Italian and French help.

[@gllmll7227]

@@U87-z2w "Kurtuluş savaşının mali kaynakları" Alptekin Müderrisoğlu

[@mylandaigle7160]

ah yes, a better timeline

[@ZeusBoanerges]

King Charles III is the emperor of Byzantium, via his father.

[@voidwalker9746]

Any timeline without Turkey is a good timeline

[@James-rf1wn]

What a disgusting and racist thing to say. This why the crimes AGAINST Turks aren't mentioned and even accepted. Because of terrible disgusting people like you. Make the same comment about black people or Jewish people. I dare you.

[@ahmebrolab502]

explain why

[@voidwalker9746]

@@ahmebrolab502 because Turkey is a blight on the world and a genocidal menace.

[@islammehmeov2334]

​@@ahmebrolab502because TURKS have no friends but only TURKS

[@OscarT-wb5ck]

they killed christians

[@mikedrewson5545]

No hate for Josh but I kinda wish Z would do these videos himself.

[@MonsieurDean]

I will return.

[@clasicpotato]

Honestly I could see the monarchists negotiating control of Constantinople from Britain, who may give it up to prevent a civil war in Grease which would threaten their control of the region, this could prevent a civil war by giving the monarchists a lot more support and once the second world war happens the British would see the surrender of Constantinople to Grease as a justifiable decision since it would have prevented the rise of fascism in one of their allies.

[@feax21]

The Kingdom of Greece was established in 1830. In 1821 it was the beginning of the GREEK REVOLUTION that lead to the establishment of the kingdom of Greece in 1830.

[@ayberksoylu]

Your reading is false. İzmir (Symirna) was burnt by Armenians after 2-3 days the greeks left the city. So Turks did not burn their city. I do not know where you have found 30.000 people. But if so they would be the soldiers of Greeks ,not the local people of İzmir. Moreover Greeks had killed,raped,tortured, thousands of Turks and ruined the villages during their activities at Anatolia 15.05.1919 till to 09.09.2022 more than 3 years. They had killed thousands of Turks even at the city or at the rural ares(villagers) Why do not you tell about this manner? Surely atrocity is not approviate word for this case,too.. That was a war surely, it would happen to Turks. Let me tell you more . Greeks had lost 3/4 of the army that they started to invade Anatolia probably like 120-150.000 soldiers at those wars. So that they call "asiaminor disaster" for this invasion. This was not a atrocity. This was a war .Clear ! As I know France,Italy did not help Turks. They could not get along with Britian at Istanbul.They left Britain and Greeks on theirselves. But they did not collect all of the weapons and ammuniations as well. But Turks fought against France at Adana,Antep,Maraş region. So France was defeated by local people and their groups. I do not know that Turks fought against Italians as well. Please also change your videos Republic of Turkey to Republic of Turkiye from now on. Becasue this is the reality. In addition to this let me tell you how Republic of Turkiye was established. After the invasion of Istanbul and most of the Anatolia , the Greeks,Britain were very happy to be the witnesses and to be the heros of their dreams. But WW1 destroyed Britain so heavily. They had lost millions of soldiers and people. So they could not bear the financial debts and losts of the war. So they could not hold İstanbul. This is the vital point. So Mustafa Kemal was knowing this. So that he said "They will go as they have come " Mustafa Kemal was ready to establish a country.Because he was great observer,learner and visioner . He stayed at Karlovy vary for a curement during June-July 1918 after WW1. and he had chance to observe the difficulties of establishing the republic of Czechoslovakia. Czechoslavakia was established at 28.10.1918. Moreover he had met with Colonel(?) Mihail Vasiliyeviç Frunze and colonel(?) Kliment Voroşilov at there. Then these 2 russian soldiers helped Turkish independence war so much that their sculptures are still on the monument at Taksim square later. See the monument of Taksim. After all, let's come to your question. If Turks would be defeated by Greeks what if.... According to my opinion , the fire of Independence would still flame. But it would be late at the 30's. Greeks would behave Turks as Jews do to the Palestians .This would cause a hate ,so they would be defeated again at this seneario. Because Greeks did not have enough source and production to maintain this kind of an invasion.They had no chance. In fact , I agree with you. Soviet Union would continue to support Turkish independence war , to get Anatolia ,the gate of them to go through the hot waters. What I think about the Greeks is that they were punished by the divine providence. Because after this defeat, they had powerty at Greek mainland. then some of them immigrated to USA then Germans defeated them again and lost probably 300-350.000 people. And then the civil war started in Greece after WW2. So Greece could not come to himself, always stayed at unconsicious after 1921. The ones could leave then they left the country.Moreover divine providence punished them also for their genocides that they did against Turks at Tripoli in Mora peninsula 1821th and/or at Crete .But they are not important because killing Turks were holly or not important. Observe these genocides please.

[@lukejohnson4975]

What if the Ottoman Empire had remained fully, utterly, and entirely neutral in World War 1?

[@bullmoosevelt4495]

Even by some miracle they were able to pull that off, it wouldn't have changed much. The various minorities were going to rebel anyway, and Europe was bound to exploit it, Ottomans were doomed.

[@AnqeLo99]

good ending for ottos

[@AnqeLo99]

@@charlieread2097 -12 iq

[@AnqeLo99]

​@@charlieread2097 that responce enough for you. you do not deserve more than that

[@lukejohnson4975]

​@@charlieread2097 Who are these "Kemal Johnsons"? I have not the slightest idea of what you are talking about?

[@dvyn1105]

POV : If turkey partitioned, the whole world would go to a new war...

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

A dream all of Europe and the Middle East will wish came true!

[@DonKrieg-382]

too bad for your lgbt jew brain it never came 🤭🤭🤭 now you have to deal with turkish family in playground

[@aotmoments7410]

sad fact is Greece can never threaten Türkiye again since the last 100 years Greece population grew around 5m when turkeys grew around 70 million, Türkiye also has a economy around 5x larger, and Greece is ranked 32 globally in the world for their military whereas Türkiye is 8th..

[@Zzz95]

Free Cyprus Constantinople and Smyrni

[@islammehmeov2334]

Way don't you try it

[@shafsteryellow]

From?

[@Zzz95]

@@shafsteryellow from turkgay

[@WinterXR7]

Soon…

[@notme9816]

Thank you.

[@realmless4193]

The idea that they would make Russia a free government is kinda dumb.

[@familygash7500]

*VIDEO SUGGESTION:* What if The Ottoman Empire had joined The Allies in World War I?

[@alexzero3736]

Together with Russia? That would shorten the war significantly. Also Bulgaria may stay neutral as they would feel surrounded... I d say in 1916 peace would be signed with defeat of Germany and survival of both Russian and Ottoman empires.

[@georgios_5342]

1:28 why are there also Greek flags in the back here? And everything written in Greek, Turkish and French?

[@poil8351]

greece,bulgaria, yugoslavia, italy and possibly rommania and hungry all end up in a new balkan war over the territory. the british and french are busy fighting local uprisings for the next decade which proabbly leads the french to have a much bigger military in 1939 and a more agressive foreign policy.

[@walorianfederation666]

THE BEST ALT HISTORY TIMELINE

[@lukejohnson4975]

What if Prohibition never happened? What if the Business Plot had succeeded?

[@AmericanCaesarian]

The based timeline where the megali idea is finally established

[@PaoloCavestro-ey9bb]

What if Europe, Middle East, America and Africa had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?

[@MikhailMyers]

WHERE ALL THE ANGRY TURKS AT? 😂😂😂😂😂🤑🤑🤑

[@papazataklaattiranimam]

👽👽👽

[@AnqeLo99]

why should we be sad? u have to be 12 or something

[@MikhailMyers]

@@AnqeLo99 cuz usually when there’s a video relating to let’s say this one. There are usually a few Turks exploding in the comments.

[@James-rf1wn]

I think the Turks are used to the biased and hypocrisy.

[@sagittariusa7662]

So... if Constantine I was never born or was assassinated by some luck, a German, then this whole degredation of Greek Reconquista wouldn't had happened and Greece might had united Turkish lands with its own with the Re-hellenization of Anatolia as the Turks are mostly the same people genetically to what had lived in Anatolia since Eastern Roman Times. Prince Andrew of Greece and Denmark seems to be a suitable alternative to Constantine as he abdicated, assassinated, died or was never born. King Andrew of Greece. His heir would had been Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, husband to Elizabeth II. So basically King Philip. When he passed away, their son Charles, yes Charles III would be the King of Greece and the United Kingdom. Basically Greece would be part of the United Kingdom, the Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and Greece. This would be odd since the UK is largely a Protestant Country or Set of Countries while Greece is profoundly Orthodox. A good way around this is that the King is just a ceremonial figurehead who shares responsibilities with the Patriarch of Constantinople who is entirely independent of the Crown, thereby keeping the Country, Orthodox. The Good Part of this is that it would make the UK and Greece allies prior to their unification and it would make Turkey pretty much non-existant. They would probably join the Axis Powers, lose, fall under the control of an Ambitious Soviet General and become part of the Soviet Union. This of course being Eastern Turkey as the West would still be under Helleno-British control. There would be a Turkish Republic, but it would be very weak and easily lose Eastern lands to the Kurds, making it even smaller. Pretty much just Central Anatolia and the Black Sea Coast along with Mersin and Adana as the rest would be either Greek, Armenian or Kurdish and no Hatay taken from Syria. Greece had also annexed Cyprus too and Greece would be one of the consituent countries of the United Kingdom.

[@uralcrusader5621]

Almost the best timeline.

[@simulacrumpilot2777]

It's much better that this never happened.

[@bobbobb4804]

Other great alt histories “if Islam never existed” and “if the Seljuks never took control of Anatolia”

[@sidequestenjoyer7037]

@@simulacrumpilot2777 no it’s not

[@StalkerX426]

​@@sidequestenjoyer7037No, it's better never to have that happen

[@KoritnyanskyImmary_ch]

I like ur videos

[@이동연-c6d]

It will be much better than our timeline. 😊😊😊

[@Linkingarlandmusic]

tru

[@sunthewitch1]

it would be much much better if north korea did took over south korea

[@indianpotatofarmer6508]

Day 66 of asking for what if the Zulu beat the British out of South Africa, and what if the Turks helped them out

[@MonsieurDean]

All of South Africa would become rightfully Turkish.

[@indianpotatofarmer6508]

@@MonsieurDean are u saying it isn’t currently??

[@MonsieurDean]

@@indianpotatofarmer6508 I thought it was chinese.

[@indianpotatofarmer6508]

@@MonsieurDean something like that

[@atakanpayman]

The "C" in Cemal is pronounced more like a "J". Djemal is the English version of it.

[@aravindhanil7235]

What if poland lost the 1st war against the Soviet Union?

[@dominicadrean2160]

What if the Phoenicians in Greeks colonized Britain

[@modddy0025]

Beautiful Timeline

[@StalkerX426]

Worst timeline

[@unknownmf2599]

damn bro is really obsessed and mad at the turkic folk hahahaha love it

[@ИгорьПак-т9б]

Constantinople is not incorporated into Greece Greeks: *fuming with rage*

[@metal_pipe9764]

What if the young turks were actually young?

[@helioslegigantosaure6939]

Good ending

[@georgios_5342]

5:48 * it's actually May 1453

[@PineappleMaxwell]

Could you make your alternate histroy of the world, episodes and a movie for a final?

[@TurkishZombie]

-2:48 C in Cemal sounds like J in James. -1453 is the date Mehmed took Constantinople. -There is still a debate about which side started the İzmir fire. -I don't think Soviets would try that kind of idiotic move and lose like that. Turks wouldn't even want to join Soviets because of cultural reasons. A balanced foreign policy up to a point is more likely. -Also Turks had the majority in Italian and French influence zones and the Asian side of Marmara. We would get those lands back when they eventually leave. So, we'd end up with Anatolian peninsula without Izmir. After these, Turkey joining WW2 and Hitler wins scenario happens.

[@KartvelArca]

You know that most of these probably come from biased sources mostly demonizing turkey instead of having a neutral opinion?

[@georgios_5342]

The fire was started by the Turkish army, burnt all of the Greek and Armenian mahallas, and was quickly put out after that, leaving the Turkish one largely intact. In the entire world, there is a consensus that the Turkish army started the fire, the only place where this "debate" exists is in Turkey (just like the rejection of the Armenian Genocide). Furthermore, Greeks were the majority in Eastern Thrace, Constantinople and Bithynia, so if it was put to a vote, the zone of the Straights would more likely become a part of Greece rather than Turkey. Finally, it is very unlikely that Turkey on the Axis would be enough to make Germany win the Second World War, seeing as the balance of powers would have logically still led the USA against Germany, and Germany would have likely still commenced operation Barbarossa. Germany against the USSR, Britain and America was always going to lose. Turkey on the Axis might have made that a little harder, but still that would be counterbalanced by Armenia, Kurdistan and a larger and stronger Greece. But it's true that the Soviets would most likely not confront the Europeans directly.

[@KartvelArca]

@@georgios_5342 while i believe that greece was responsible for the war over smyrna (its a better name than izmir fight me) demonizing one side while claiming that the other side were the heroic peacekeepers would be ignorant (just like in every single conflict in history) the greeks committed many atroticities towards the muslim turks of smyrna while the retaking of izmir wasnt all sunshines and rainbows as most of the orthodox greek population of izmir were significantly oppressed by ultra-nationalistic soldiers and citizens Now thanks for putting me on Erdoğan’s watchlist just before the election (love from the eastern side)

[@KartvelArca]

@@georgios_5342 while i believe that greece was responsible for the war over smyrna (its a better name than izmir fight me) demonizing one side while claiming that the other side were the heroic peacekeepers would be ignorant (just like in every single conflict in history) the greeks committed many atroticities towards the muslim turks of smyrna while the retaking of izmir wasnt all sunshines and rainbows as most of the orthodox greek population of izmir were significantly oppressed by ultra-nationalistic soldiers and citizens Now thanks for putting me on Erdoğan’s watchlist just before the election (love from the eastern side)

[@ylmazirdenyazc8393]

​@@georgios_5342 Dude im sorry but there are few things i would love to correct, if there was an İnternational consesus that the fire was indeed started by Turks by Direct orders of Atatürk, it wouldnt be a Debate to begin with, do you see any Debates within İnternational consensus over Armenian genocide? Or Seyfo? Nope because these are actual events you used to describe Smyrna situtation, unless Paul Grescovich is certainly proved to be lying for a reason even after Turkish army Arrested half of his crew for being greeks leaving him with only half the numbers to deal with the fire. Most İnternational Consesus agree's that it was the Turkish İnaction in putting down the fires are seen as the main contributor to the catastrophe, not them starting the fire. Since at this point main Turkish Army didnt entered the City center since American, British and French warships were waiting at the Harbor ready to open fire, wich meant Turks only had the Upper parts of the City under their control and they werent İnfantry but Artillery divisions, and these Allied ships would later be really important in evacuating the rest of the Cities surviving inhabitans.

[@sgauden02]

When should the next Scar Nicholas video be ready?

[@MonsieurDean]

We're waiting on one voice actor.

[@saguntum-iberian-greekkons7014]

Britain stopped supplying the Greeks on ammunitions so the Greeks had to retreat/withdrawal. Without this british action the Greeks would just had keep pushing as they had the momentum (in the same time that the soviets were massively supplying the turks, believing they will become communists)

[@davidbofinger]

I don't think it's accurate to say the Ottomans only won at Gallipoli. They managed to force the British invasion of Mesopotamia to surrender, and they held their line in Palestine against the British for a long time, throwing back a lot of attacks on Gaza, before they lost at Beersheba.

[@NickAndriadze]

This is practically just a ''What if Greeks won Greco-Turkish war'' video, not a ''What if Turkey lost the war of independence.'' EXTREMELY incomprehensive, no mention of the Caucasian front (except this vague line *3:51* that isn't even true, Russians OBLITERATED the Turks), the Armenian Genocide, the Treaty of Kars, NOTHING. You know? Turkish War of independence wasn't just Greece, it involved the Caucasus too!

[@andyreginald9272]

5:44 it was in the year 1453 my friend

[@reaver1414]

Then prince Philip never would have fled to England and marrying queen Elizabeth

[@NathanAurelianus]

What if the Latin Empire survived to become an actual empire?

[@spoonsareoccasionallymadeo5728]

Hate to be "that guy" but not much probably changes. Ottomans show up and wreck everybody for a few hundred years like our timeline.

[@ylmazirdenyazc8393]

@@spoonsareoccasionallymadeo5728 Or either Second Bulgarian Empire or Stefan Dušan canniballizes them.

[@NathanAurelianus]

@@spoonsareoccasionallymadeo5728 hence why I worded it "Survived to become and actual empire" and not just "survived"

[@bobbobb4804]

@@spoonsareoccasionallymadeo5728 The Ottoman’s wouldn’t have existed because they were founded on territory owned by the Latin empire

[@GAarcher]

men, we need to get josh in to the work again, slavery is historicool ascoolrated and we should force him into creating a expanded cenario of this, with changes on what happens on italy,germany, poland, russia, balkans, west and austria with the changes on turkey leading to this 1920s great war, perfect cenario for a alternative history, get josh to basement

[@AW27007]

Also where is the MrAsianPie collab?

[@MonsieurDean]

Maybe in the near future!

[@achistorian6978]

What if the first balkan war became a world war ?

[@ragael1024]

the fall of Constantinople was on 29th of May 1453, mate. not 1452. i did like the "international zone(read british)". aaand... the greeks always failed to do what they want because of divisions among themselves. which always lead to civil wars. which is the main reason their empire was destroyed. plenty of divisions here too, making anyone else able to gain some lands from them.

[@dingus9537]

Legit 4 minutes of actual content

[@dragonhowto]

Now, I have to sub to Josh . . .

[@MonsieurDean]

If you don't, Josh will turn you into alternate history.

[@dragonhowto]

@@MonsieurDean Binging his entire channel, now!

[@lukejohnson4975]

What if the Ottoman Empire joined the Triple Entente (The Allies)?

[@HS-hx8ti]

I think this just reveals a rather juvenile understanding of history and geopolitics. While Turkey falling to communism is believable enough in this scenario, the Soviet Union would never support a guaranteed losing war. I suspect there would be more similarities with the French occupation of Vietnam after WW2, with constant guerilla attacks sapping France, Italy and Britain's willingness to continue the occupation of Turkey. In this case they would probably be even more willing to abandon Turkey, seeing as Vietnam had a lot more useful resources than Turkey. I don't see the Greeks willingly abandoning the Greek-populated parts of Western Anatolia though, so I could see Greece and and a resurgent Turkey fighting on opposites sides during WW2, ending in Turkish victory and a similar situation as today.

[@GattsuOfficial]

Meh, I don't feel like the Soviets and a Communist Turkey would fare very well - The Soviets had loose ambitions on the Turks (Constantinople and what was to be Wilsonian Armenia), both of which the Turks would want back, I personally find it more likely that the Turks join the Axis Sphere of Influence, while before this, fighting against Italy in Antalya, which the Greeks would realistically support - Being against the Italians. Due to the annexation of Antalya/Attaleia into an Italian Rum. I see it likely that the Turks, for sakes the Kemalists BEAT the Italians, which; Intern makes the Italians more lenient and a Liability to the Nazis, making the Turks the pre-eminent power. Among other things, the British would steamroll a Turkish State inside of the middle east; So I don't see a different outcome from our world.

[@Leo-uu2up]

I love Armenia, Greece and Crusaders

[@DonKrieg-382]

you also love 1204

[@michelarsenault4088]

So now it's time for Scar nicholas part 4? if logic is right?

[@MonsieurDean]

We've been waiting on one more voice actor.

[@michelarsenault4088]

@@MonsieurDean I see, Can't wait and Hope for the Best! It a Good series!

[@THE_ONLY_REAL_WAFFLE]

Nice

[@sotirismitzolis5171]

there are so many small errors in this video, l cant even begin to list them

[@soudino2723]

what if the mughal empire never collapsed?