What If your Entire Party Played Terribly? FFXIV Dawntrail

[@GleamingGarmore]

2:16 “living shadow is allowed exclusively for stack markers” You guys are representing misinterpretations I didnt even know existed

[@arogon8797]

I laughed so hard at that

[@cantthinkofone4196]

@@arogon8797 same 😭😭😭

[@Osteichthyes]

On the next episode: "How Drunk can you be and still clear on-content Extreme Trials"

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Look all I'm saying is I don't envision an all drunk group managing to successfully deal with ice bridges ex3! 🤣🤣🤣

[@ellasbian]

@@CaetsuChaijiChdepends how drunk, i’ve cleared savages on content at probably well over 1‰

[@JohnDSouls]

One day I want to get a group to clear TEA drunk with. Every 3 wipes= 1 drink

[@generalsweet8212]

Blackout, next.

[@lucalopez9604]

clearly you only need 1 sober healer who will LB them, like its usually done in farm parties anyways.

[@redmaster4446]

it might sound odd but to me this also proves one thing. no matter how scuffed the team is, it's possible to complete dungeons. no need to give up because 1 person isn't playing optimally. also this kinda makes me want to try a challenge run with some friends to see if in some older dungeons if we can mess up every mechanic and still clear a dungeon XD

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Indeed! As long as you have progress forward, the duty is beatable! And that does sound fun! 😄

[@poro9084]

recently was in dungeon and our tank was horribly lagging, he dropped after first boss and never got back, because we looted, we needed to wait long time before queing up again.. so we went ahead.. we killed it to last boss when we finalyl got another tank - it was that dungeon with zenos and the end in stormblood, was suprised we survived tank busters but we had i think it was sage so we just put all mits up and then ran around

[@violetsongbird761]

If we’re in really low level content, my friends and I love to goof around. My friend who tanks a lot will turn off tank stance and we all become the tank. He also likes to prank me by randomly dumping all the enmity on me so I get tank busted. It’s a good time.

[@kyallokytty]

do be aware that these are 4 good players limiting themselves to play badly there's a difference there, a good player only using their 1,2,3 will still probably be as good if not better than a really bad player doing their best, be it because they won't be standing in mechanics, because they'll keep their uptime a cure bot might simply spam cure I/cure II the moment the tank takes any dmg and run out of mana super fast, the no mitigation tank may stand in AoEs and take even more unmitigated dmg the ice mage may not even be attacking half the time(I've seen people that kept their gcd rolling for 20% of the time, it's *that bad*) the dragoon might be standing in AoEs and making the healer really work to keep them alive hell, if you give 4 good players their 1's and a basic cure, they can probably do dungeons... but the main challenges would be not sleep on the keyboard and timeout

[@JohnnyShagbot]

In ARR dungeons, you can often freely ignore many mechanics. As a black mage main I learned this, and now I usually don't even dodge them because I know what will kill me and what won't. Screw your damage puddle, I have astral fire to upkeep! In some cases I can do this even into Stormblood dungeons.

[@raarasunai4896]

The tank who’s like “the healer is attacking, so CLEARLY they don’t need my mitigations” is painful. The healer can attack BECAUSE of the mitigations. Honestly don’t know if they were actually ignorant to that fact or just being a douche canoe

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I'm guessing the second option, but the best part of that story is probably that the two dps in the group actually did interrupt the tank to say "no, you're bad" 😂 It didn't change the tanks behavior though so... 🤣

[@hoodiesticks]

You know you've got a good healer when nobody is dead. You know you've got a good tank when the healer is doing damage.

[@dalgona4819]

As someone who's been playing all the classes but mainly heals I always try to mit bc god knows that Healer can only do so much to keep the party alive

[@raarasunai4896]

@@dalgona4819 I try my best to cycle my cooldowns properly, but I’m not a tank main.

[@bigtoothsam]

Had a tank tell me not to attack and only focus on healing them because they refused to mitigate and wanted to pull wall to wall. They had their friend in there with them so they ended up kicking me from the instance. I obviously reported them but still.

[@AliciaWhimsicott]

My average Levelling Roulette group:

[@coaster1235]

phew good thing the dragoon didn’t blow their 2hr job ability on a mere dungeon

[@chernobyl169]

The tank throws were so authentic, I felt the noobishness in this run. Circling the packs, wasting the LB, splitting the ranged mob at the end - all classic "bad tank" moves. Very entertaining and informative.

[@DarkDyllon]

circling the pack isn't a sign of being a noob, it actually delays their auto's, which in most cases you don't need to care about, but if you got a bad healer as a tank, you'll be using this a lot. had this recently in the Tower of Zot as a GNB, I was using all my CDs but the healer was struggling to keep up with me. (said he was new to AST) I started circling the mob pack, making mobs constantly move after each auto and my health didn't went down nearly as hard, if you played deep dungeons, you'd know this, at least if you played anything but a tank there.

[@dtaggartofRTD]

@@DarkDyllon It's rare, but it makes the difference when you really need it.

[@Nshadowtail]

@@DarkDyllon As someone who just picked up AST after only healing on WHM, I *absolutely* believe that healer. It is SUCH a huge jump in complexity, made more difficult than it needs to be by the fact that the spell names aren't so straightforward as "cure" and "regen."

[@206Zelda]

Tank: *dragging Killer Bees* Healer: *Not healing due to emnity from Killer Bees* DPS: *Not attacking due to emnity from Killer Bees* Killer Bees: *Stops twenty yards back to cast Final Sting*

[@fawkes6352]

As a Dark Knight main, this gameplay - and the Bardam's Mettle testmonial at 2:20 - are making me scream internally. It's fun, though. In the way that horror movies are fun.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

"every second hurts to watch... But I must see how much worse it gets!" 😂😁

[@zerokross6443]

The only thing this is missing to be a truly terrible party is someone getting hit by every single mechanic (I have had to heal some truly horrible dungeons)

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That would definitely had made the boss fights a lot more hectic for me!

[@grimacetexas9719]

I'll be honest sometimes when i leveled sage, if someone died too much i would just stop resing them to keep my mana for those that actually tried to stay alive, after 3 res ur mana gets very low

[@jasonlove5811]

True. Normally BLM when Leyline is down. Bounse if they get a stack marker and teleports away with it.

[@CasualCoreK]

this issue, of course, is that we KNOW what happens when the party isn't doing good damage, mit, or heals and is also failing every mech: they wipe. the takeaway of the video isn't "every party can clear dungeons no matter how bad they are," it's "every party can clear dungeons if they simply do the mechs"

[@lanah_tyra]

This reminds me of an Amaurot run which was one of the very few duties I rage quit... 40 minutes and countless resses later we were still just after the 2nd boss, and no one reading the advise I was trying to give in the chat.

[@kuronaialtani]

It’s amazing how much longer things can take if the healer is doing nothing but healing Especially in a game where “but did you die” is the benchmark of how to efficiently heal

[@HeraldOfFutility]

Unrealistic thing about this: real Curebots actually spam that Cure 1 whenever tank's health is below 100% and Medica 1/3 if anyone else is below 100%.😅

[@iorivalkyrjur5783]

also BLM using leylines

[@tyler5013]

While slightly less realistic it would have been funny seeing a GNB using old superbolide right after being healed to full. Definitely never seen that happen.

[@starofaetherius]

Another banger video, paying respects for the brain cells that probably died during that duty lol

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

On the plus side, at least we managed to make the most of it! 🤣

[@articus5961]

one thing that was probably missed, gear, a bad player is generally also bad a quartermaster. once i got to stone vigil and both the healer and tank had really low ilvl for that duty, as a smn i had to help heal the tank from time to time, otherwise he could not survive single pulls

[@toaster_rtx1829]

ive gotten stone vigil 5 days in a row for leveling roulettes, 2 times i had basically min IL tanks when i was leveling AST. they barely survived single pulls. One of them didn't have stance on, and i ended up pocketing a DRG because they were living way better than the tank. Neither used mits either lol

[@HeroGuy3]

I've seen more than a couple players on expansion jobs wearing worse gear than what they're given when they unlock the job painful, especially seeing as they're usually GNB for some reason

[@mrgodogodopaint]

I also had a tank in stone vigil with low item level dps gear equipped, didn't even have actual tank gear. I called it out after I had to spend everything for him to live the first pull. The dungeon ended right after that, I cant remember if he left and we all followed or if I got vote kicked for not healing him well enough.

[@XerrolAvengerII]

not me leaving my jobstone at home

[@aaronsherwood5378]

Oh nice, you're roleplaying half of the white mages I run into while leveling. The other half swift-holy the pack halfway through the pull and leave the mobs stunned for a while. Never before has a video been so infuriating and cathartic, simultaneously.

[@Arex...]

The party was still way too competent, every one dodge red areas, every one ace every mechanic, in a real bad party the mage will dodge only 1/3 of the attacks because casting is "more important", the dragon will dodge only 1/2 because he was locked in an animation, Tank won't dodge at all because keep him alive is the job of the healer and the healer will be overhealing all the time.

[@Verpal]

As a Crystal player, your mega nerfed party still sounds better than majority of times I am tanking for random dungeons. Even if I play near optimally, result is probably still around your party, many case worse since player mechanic ability is waaay lower.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is concerning! 😂

[@KINGOFTHESPARKS755]

Dear God yes, lvling drk was agony because for so.e reason I kept ending up with weird healers and parties that would die to literally everything. It was awful

[@lanah_tyra]

that explains why I keep getting comms even as dps when I play on my Crystal alt XD

[@Verpal]

@ I always give DPS comm if they do more dps than I do.

[@KINGOFTHESPARKS755]

@Verpal I mean, that's a good practice if you are also a dps Then again, I have outdamaged a few pictomancers in expert on drk before so

[@MrsLittletall]

I don't consider myself an awesome player. I think it is really difficult to maintain a perfect rotation and so I mostly press the buttons that feel good to use, weave in some OGCDs (sometimes not optimally, yeah) and often focus on doing the mechanic correctly instead of holding up my damage. And I always thought that everyone else plays so much better than me, but then I have seen some things and was like "Wow! I might not play optimally but at least I have read my tooltips and press all my buttons and keep my stuff on cooldown." I have seriously seen a summoner who NEVER summoned anything in a leveling dungeon and once I saw an Arcanist healing. We also had once a tank who completely refused to put tank stance on in a level 80 duty and had to be votekicked so we could actually do something without being eaten alive by the groups. And one time I was told that I was the "best player in the group" after a Level 50 trial even though I am not putting optimal effort into my rotation. I admit, I have played WoW for years, so I know a little bit about MMOs, but FF14 actually plays quite different from WoW if you look deeper into it. And you have to know, I never looked at any job guides, I simply read my tooltips and puzzled the rotation out from there. This game is not that hard, and it is fun pressing your buttons, so I don't get why so many people are against it.

[@grimacetexas9719]

I am someone who play optimally in my dungeons but the main reason i can is that i spend 3k hours in the game, do savage and ultimate so i'm used to playing like this, i know my rotation so well i can do it with my eyes closed (i tried) But i needed all this time and experience to reach this level, i dont expect people in dungeons to keep their rotation perfectly, to do their burst on time, only that they try not dying and still do the basics of the classes.

[@dragonmangames2523]

It's because "Reading Is Hard(tm)"

[@grimacetexas9719]

@@dragonmangames2523 tbh some thing are very poorly explained, like blm fire and ice before ew, or which order u need to do opener on dancer, or the fact that mitigation stack multiplicatively and not additionally.

[@dragonmangames2523]

@ Two of those three cases actually aren't explained at all in game. They're the result of practice and datamining done by The Balance. BLM's Astral Fire and Umbral Ice, however, do have at least a tutorial in the Arcane gauge, I thought, but the buffs themselves are directly explained inside of...tooltips that bad players don't read.

[@MrsLittletall]

@@dragonmangames2523 At least Arcanist is put as the red role which is the damage role. That is something that even people who never played an MMO should get, especially if they went into the beginner's area which the game explictitly tells you to do, which then tells you which role you play.

[@BobbyCorwen42]

I fear you were accurate when you were saying that you didn't know what "bad" players look like. Failed mechanics are our trademarks. That said, I think it's important that even somewhat unskilled players can clear the MSQ.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I'm sure you're not so bad! But Indeed, we decided to play the mechanics right because if we also started to fake our skill level in addition to what actions we had available to us, I feel it would look a lot less fair and honest! 😂

[@sh1yo7]

That's why bardem's mettle is the bane of my existence lol

[@DragonKnightFire]

"As a healer, I COULD be dpsing, but my attention is on the tank since they are not using cool downs." Is what goes through my head when I encounter these types of tanks.

[@Justfalor]

Missed the chance to enter a DT dungeon without the Jobstone. A friend of mine recently sent me an image of a lvl 80 thaumaturge in their duty. According to the report, that person was also not always casting and mostly in ice.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is true. I feel like that would be too hard if we all were doing that! 😂

[@toaster_rtx1829]

I have a friend who has a lvl 100 Arcanist. They dont even have SCH or SMN. I wonder if theyve done a duty like taht

[@Sky_Ler2000]

My friend just saw someone like this a couple days ago. A lvl 30 archer who, after being told he should get his job stone, said, “I’m going to wait till level 90. I don’t want to get overwhelmed by the missions”

[@IosLocarth]

Back in stormblood I queued up for hell's lid with a friend and I forgot what specifically he was doing but he had removed his job stone for some specific reason and forgot to equip it when we queued so he had to run it as like arcanist or thaumaturge. Luckily the other two party members just laughed

[@robertomacetti7069]

If you think that's bad wait to find the arcanist I bumped into into m4n

[@EmpereurdesBalignon]

I do like that the game tells you "if you do mechanics properly, you can clear this dungeon", which keep the MSQ pretty accessible. At the same time, they are pretty punishing (you can fail only once or twice) but you SHOULD be able to do most mechs if you've played up to DT. The damage/rotation part being "optional", every player can decide for themselves what degree of push&pull/challenge they want. It's pretty good game design imho

[@Slysheen]

Oh lordy, the no attack cure spam and only single target dps rotations on Vanguard is making my bones hurt, 100% marks on committing to the bit

[@janesdead6802]

I think it was a video on this channel where I commented about my anxieties around tanking in trials and having done several dozens of trials and dungeons in the last two days as tank I can now safely say I have simultaneously cleared and wiped enough times to no longer feel scared about tanking 😀👍🏼 Aurum Vale when you forgot to upgrade your gear for the last 7 levels (and even when you are somewhat over the expected ilevel) is agony but at least the first healer was polite when they left

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That's awesome! 😄

[@JohnnyLover32]

Not related to the video topic, but you're the first FFXIV KZbinr I've found I enjoy watching and can also get good information out of! :D I think a good chunk of my anxieties about doing high end content (even unsynced - outside of ARR, HW, or Some STB stuff - I get nervous thinking about it. ) have been fading too. Keep doing what you're doing ^o^ it's a lot of fun binging your videos.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Thank you so much! And I'm glad to hear that you feel more confident! 😄

[@JohnnyLover32]

⁠​⁠@@CaetsuChaijiCh:D of course!!! Hopefully one day I'll be able to do p8s with that sliver of confidence ..!!

[@falinestixiaolong9691]

Now that's good content. We need to see an 8-man version of this!

[@random66849]

yeah, i'm gonna make more of an effort to use my cool buttons. next time i play machinist i'll be sure to use flamethrower on cooldown for the maximim duration

[@Cassapphic]

I always wondered how and why curebot players end up stuck in this position where they do get so morbidly terrified of ever attacking and this video has done a great job of showing why, by focusing on heals when the dps is so bad and mit is also bad, they genuinely don't have the time to attack because they're being pushed pretty tight by relying on their "main" toolkit, which makes it seem as if this is the only way to survive because they haven't quite takena step back for the wider picture to realsie what they're misunderstanding.

[@MagicalPhi]

Seeing this just reminds me of when I first started playing the game and was playing Reaper, where for some reason I would never use Enshroud outside of boss fights. I *think* I had the good sense to at least use Arcane Circle during pulls but that was about it lol

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

It's not too bad at least! Sometimes it can take the two aoe pulls to build two full enshrouds, so you probably didn't lose TOO MUCH. Still painful in hindsight probably! 😅

[@theztav]

In contrast you could do a speedrun of the same stage with optimal jobs and rotations so we can actually see the difference.

[@DarkDyllon]

this was beyond painful and if I ever end in a party like this, i'll gladly take the 30 minute penalty and make some food or something, I would lose my mind and likely go on a rant that may or may not get me banned if i'd stick around. i'm not expecting peak performance, i'm expecting the bare minimum, use your buttons, in AOE pulls use your AOE's, tanks pull wall to wall (especially now that every wall 2 wall is just 2 packs anyway) healers at least apply your dot, for bonus do damage.

[@Aitherea]

Most of my scuffed runs have usually been when people cant stay alive and I'm not playing healer so I am unable to carry. Someone doing DPS poorly def does make the dungeon take longer, but usually only by like 5 minutes; it's not super noticeable. Meanwhile, my most recent experience that took an entire hour was in Yuweyawata -- i was on WAR and was a bit undergeared (707; and frankly I'm an average WAR player, not an OP one!) and could not survive the 2nd boss without the healer. But the healer and the red mage continuously died because the healer struggled a ton with getting to the wall during the meteor. If they ran through the red they would get the bleed, presumably panic instead of healing themselves, and then die; if they didnt die to the red stuff, they died to the meteor cuz they just couldnt get that little finger to point where they needed to go to get to the wall. Usually the rdm would die to that too or would die at some other point, so both our raisers/healers were dead and I couldn't stay alive long enough to kill it by myself. We wiped like 4x to that boss and then maybe another 2-3 to the last boss. People doing DPS poorly has never had *as* big of an effect on the time I've spent in dungeons because it kinda feels like as long as they press AOE buttons, we're gonna clear within about 20 mins. An interesting video for sure, but it still feels like you guys were a little too skilled at the mechanics c;

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah that would certainly be a solid barrier to completion! The cursor pointer can also be hard to deal with so the main tip I usually give for that is that if you repeatedly tap a movement key, you effectively slow down the spinning speed of the cursor, which helps with aiming it! 😊 But if half of the team has trouble with such a mechanic it can be difficult to overcome 😅 Indeed, we decided to not "fake" our capacity to do the mechanics 😂 I guess it would've been pretty obvious that with the restrictions we set, if I died on any boss it would lead to a wipe! 🤣

[@glensimpson]

You guys found a way to spend more time in dungeons and less in queues!

[@russpc9739]

This is still better than the average player. You missed the dps guy with only his class abilities but no job abilities on lvl100

[@Azuxa---6]

This was awful to watch, and probably even more awful to play. 10/10, would recommend to everyone.

[@Xorua]

Woah, Caetsu Chaiji made a video about my PF groups

[@Maha-gx4zm]

It is a match made in heaven .

[@kamil118]

All I took out of this video is "You need to fish for freecure, and do it well" Ty for great guide

[@ashensage7968]

Idi an amaurot where the tank only used Rampart and living dead, the BLM was a frost mage and idk what the pct was doing but our damage was so terrible we failed the second bosses dps check twice. We somehow managed to lb 2 then 1 the final boss and I had to heal and MIT as healer through apocalypse beam at least three times because we ran out of platforms. I remember when we finished we had 10 mins on the clock. I tried to give some pointers but Jesus christ. In the end I just told them to check out some leveling guides so they can improve slightly because everything was just awful. I think the pct was just pressing random buttons, mostly the 1 single target skill. I saw hammer like twice, star like once and no moogle.

[@robertomacetti7069]

Dungeon bosses have enrage?

[@kennethgordon9185]

​@@robertomacetti7069 Amaurot has two, hard enrage for the second boss. Wipes you if you fail the dps check and the final boss who has a soft one. He keeps blasting you once platforms are gone until either you or himself dies.

[@robertomacetti7069]

@ you learn something new every day

[@lucarianscout]

Well this was...educational? I think? I was feeling pain with some of this, but I'm glad, and surprised, you succeeded. Though now I'm considering some of the misconceptions that come with my main, MCH, and it terrifies me to try this challenge with some friends of mine.I don't know how to play the class badly at this point, so to remove actions from the hotbar is just...oh boy...

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Haha yeah some jobs are built in a way where it is difficult to imagine how badly they can be played! My best suggestion is, if you want some inspiration, try a similar approach to the dragoon in this group! ("oh I'm saving cooldowns for a real fight!") 😂

[@LegendaryDorkKnight]

So just "What if you ran Vanguard on the average Tuesday" EDIT: Holy FACK! I made this comment before I actually watched the video, but you're ACTUALLY in Vanguard!

[@IdleChaos]

No broken gear? No lvl 1 glamour armor on tank? sorry not realistic enough (joking).

[@dalgona4819]

I remember when I got into a dungeon roulette with three other random players and we played so well that our run went so smoothly and quickly. Near the end one of them said they appreciate that the party share a braincell and it's sync lol

[@jamesrickman6497]

"What If your Entire Party Played Terribly? FFXIV Dawntrail" Then it would be a Tuesday.

[@kita6502]

You forgot 1 thing. People not dodging well and dying. Legit ive seen people die to trash packs and almost every boss. Its not just sbout plsying unoptimally but there willl be lots and lots of deaths/ peopke getting hit

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Oh we did not forget. I am pretty sure I mentioned we decided against deliberately failing mechanics because there was no way for us to get hit by a "reasonable amount of mechanics", so instead we would fake the "excessively careful player", the ones that dodge way too soon and things like that! But granted yes, if we had been hit by more mechanics, things would much much more quickly spiral out of control!

[@mrblackjacker32.03]

The thumbnail gave me enough fear to leave a comment. This gives me more panic than Towers in the CAR

[@grassjelly-vf3bw]

oof... the drg one... funny bc i used to be like that💀💀💀 (worse actually) i don't even aoe packs and 'saving' my ogcd until like... stromblood...💀💀💀 now i know how to use my kits effectively!

[@idgie534]

I recently took an alt through Dawntrail so I can do some PF prog next savage tier without messing up loot for my static, and had some... interesting experiences in the dungeons. Notably The Skydeep Cenote in particular took only fractionally less time than this run of Vanguard- I'm an experienced tank but I was struggling on some of the pulls because I simply ran out of cooldowns waiting for the mobs to die.

[@black-velvet98]

i had a tank in vanguard the other day that didn’t know what they were doing. healer left when they single pulled first mob, then just never used any mits except Aurora 💀 very glad i wasn’t a healer that run

[@hey_byte_me2497]

I've stopped being a healer main since shadowbringers, and holy moly, this gameplay is hurting me so bad. I'm a WAR main now, but I still have other roles leveled up just in case of PF parties, and I always try to strive to play the game to the best of my ability, even using 3rd party tools to gauge my progress. I could never hurt my fellow party members like this

[@Elendrial]

Someone I knew had a 50 min run of the lvl 91 dungeon the other day, and they were only really complaining about the RDM - I assume because it's a job they know pretty well. But wow this really validates the thoughts I had at the time - that that's not "rdm please use CDs", it's "is _anyone_ here pressing buttons?!" Like sure, they would have had deaths, but even a single person playing well should be a massive speed increase. Then again, I've found that even provably good players (eg: savage clearers) can be barely average in dungeons - which is understandable, very different style of content with very different stakes - so maybe not.

[@brontome]

Can you imagine doing an outreach for this one to find genuine bad players?

[@SamoyedSagas]

Do a few roulettes on Dynamics, you'll find them quickly and organically that way.

[@dragonmangames2523]

@@SamoyedSagas On god, that's still upsetting me. I don't know if I can bring myself to play an MMO again after FFXIV killed its vibe with the enabling of bad gameplay. There's an FC that I am/was(?) in on Dynamis that would FREQUENTLY grab screenshots and r/TalesFromDF posts, ALL OF THEM highlighted how bad the skill gap on Dynamis is: There's the really good ones, and then EVERYONE ELSE.

[@Antnj81]

I don't know if I just never realized this but are we able to now customize the party colors? So we can put people's names different colors based on their job, when we're in dungeons? When did that change

[@BlitzAce987]

Restriction for White Mage should be that you can only use Cure 2 while you have a freecure proc

[@seselis625]

Now try it as a glare mage... "Just don't die" was a great answer to "please use some healing WHM!!!"

[@seselis625]

(I've definitely been the DPS in a group like this before though, took over half an hour to get through boss 2, then when healer and tank were replaced it was suddenly like 5min to the end 😂)

[@PhoenicisEstuans]

that hotbar missing all those actions was genuinely upsetting....

[@agent20mbie23]

Never saw this before but randomly tank hp was dropping like a rock in snowcloak, turns out he was wearing lvl 10 gear, so much healer pain. thankfully they changed out of it after being called out for it.

[@Densoro]

When I read the thumbnail, I thought the DRG’s ‘no CDs’ meant no GCDs either. Just clicking Interact for raw auto-attacks. I was _horrified_ xD

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Okay that would be pretty funny though!

[@SweetKitteh]

So long as the tank or the healer are alive and doing /something/, normal duties can be cleared, if painfully slowly. In all my years of playing xiv, I can think of two occasions where we were flat-out unable to complete a dungeon because of one player playing badly. The first was actually featuring myself as the weak link. Picture a sprout, enjoying their first mmo, trying to run The Vault as a healer way back in Heavensward when it was actually on-content leveling. On a computer that frankly wasn't equipped to handle anything more intense than flash games in a web browser. I actually wasn't that bad of a player - but the AoE effects in the final boss would cause me to lag, combined with me still learning how to properly dodge, and I just could not stay alive. I would very quickly go down and the rest of the party didn't have enough self-healing to do the boss without a healer. I left that duty with great shame, but tried again as a DPS and cleared. Then I got a proper gaming computer, and have done many savages, so I guess the moral is never give up (and get a working GPU). The second is perhaps more amusing - now we're in Baelsar's Wall during Stormblood, one of the expert roulette dungeons. I'm healing again, much improved... but we get a Dark Knight who is. Not. Using Grit. At all. They have 0 aggro and the DPS are melting like butter. Desperately we try to convey that the tank needs to use their stance to keep aggro. Their response? "Uh I know what I'm doing :/ I've been spamming Grit." And in the next pull I do see Grit pop up for... 1 GCD... and then turn off... and then they never turn it back on again... A tank so plain wrong and defensive that I just gave up on trying to explain. We struggled to the first boss and then couldn't clear because we would rip aggro (and this was back when it was possible for DPS and healers to rip aggro even if the tank was doing their job) and die from the tankbusters. I still quote "I'm spamming Grit" to my friends to this day.

[@toaster_rtx1829]

Its crazy how people can get to Dawntrail and be as bad as they are - the 7.1 dungeon i thought was an absolute blast and had really fun yet manageable difficulty, but i often see so much complaining about it being "too hard"

[@dragonmangames2523]

I'm just bad at Temporary Misdirection. Everything else about the dungeon was fantastic.

[@woolwort9979]

Curious if you can beat Amaurot's final boss before it hits its soft enrage playing like this.

[@woolwort9979]

Actually would you even be able to make it past the bird's enrage?

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That's a good question! The bird would probably be a bigger problem because that one is a hard enrage, where the final is a soft enrage (although no one would live through it playing with the restrictions we went with!)

[@rosecatse]

I can say from experience that no, you cannot.

[@ashensage7968]

Birds enrage is impossible to live through, apocalypse beam you can live through with shields and heals. Source: I somehow got through an amaurot with an ice mage and barely any skills used pct as sch.

[@lilithalicedark]

I mean... if you needed bad tank stuff... I gotchu... back in the day I played with a tank who had all their oGCD's and mitigations on their Fast Blade, in order from strongest to weakest. So their macro was Fight or Flight > Hallowed Ground > Sentinel > so on and so forth > Rampart > Circle of Scorn > Spirits Within > Fast Blade > Shield Lob... you know, just in case they were too far to Fast Blade. You don't have to try to play bad if you literally are unable to play well. :3 And side note, for BLM optimization; Transpose > Thunder > Foul/Xenoglosy > Transpose works for DoT purposes. :3 Honestly though, I think this is a flawed example of this. A better example would involve the healer and one of the DPS chatting the entire time in party chat, extra points if the healer is SCH and uses Physick when the tank is low and only uses Adloquium when the tank is nearly full health (yes, this is a thing, I'd also include no Emergency Tactics but you can use Lucid Dreaming) and everyone CAN use their offensive cooldowns, but ONLY during the opener on bosses, and no DPS mitigative abilities at all.

[@severren1095]

can you do the most recent trial playing like this?

[@baanfrey]

Try your best to emulate them but legitimately bad players are something else entirely. I will never forget that SAM (wearing lvl 70 job gear) I saw in LotA throwing random AoEs and uncomboed finishers on a single target. 😂 I hope that one day they get the guidance they need 🙏

[@TheAzarak]

I'm honestly really surprised that you didn't think this would work. This game's dungeons are really, really, really fucking easy. No defensives and no healing from the tank is easily healed by a healer that only heals and does no damage.

[@treasureboxgaming7109]

It would have been a fun comparison. if you ran one more time going try hard with the same group to see how fast you could do it.

[@Zharf]

that would require that I actually knew how to play DRG

[@gazel7424]

that would require that I can actually dodge the mechanics with my latency

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Haha yeah I actually did think about that, but as zharf said, dragoon would perhaps be lacking. And nox entered being concerned about being asked to black mage, until I told them what I needed them to do, so they would probably also have issues playing black mage optimally! 😊 It could be a fun thing to revisit though! "what if your entire party was amazing?" 🤣

[@17Master]

And this is even the worst they could have played. Imagine now that they only used single target for the mob packs. (I could say "and only AoE on the bosses" but that feels like it's going too far into mockery territory)

[@FieldMarshall3]

But for real though, is it frowned upon to save some DPS resources for bosses? For example as a Machinist trash packs burn down so fast with all the other AOE abilities that i usually save Queen, Full Metal Field and Wildfire for the boss.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I would say it depends on the job and the context. To approach your specific example: Assuming you are in an average, or at least slightly above average performing group, if you use EVERYTHING on the first aoe pull, including all two minute cooldowns. Then TYPICALLY they will come up again around the start of the first boss. And assuming the group keeps up the pace throughout, you will then be able to use the two minute stuff again on the first aoe pull after the first boss. And then again on the second boss. And then first pull after second boss. And then on the third boss, which particularly is much much more likely to survive multiple salvos. That is to say, opening on the first aoe pull with barrel stabilizer and full metal field while using wildfire on the tankiest mob as you hyper charge and auto crossbow spam, is generally entirely beneficial, and holding these "for the boss" just means you get one less use of both cooldowns over the course of the entire duty with nothing to show for it. Queen is more complicated due to the time it takes to build, but one thing that could be said, is that if you have enough battery during the first pull to summon her, you probably can do that, as you will generate over 60 battery from just air anchor and chainsaw(with excavator) every minute at max level, so you don't need to hoard all the battery. But as the queen is single target, it is a bit like wildfire. What I would do would be to open the second aoe pull with queen, and then generate more battery. Reasonably likely I can open the boss fight with plenty of battery early on! Now, all of this slides a bit if you are in a slower group, and in those cases, it is not unusual to see your 2 min cooldowns ready again near the end of the second aoe pull. And in those cases, it sort of depends: you could use SOME of the cooldowns to round out the fight fast. If you get full value out of the specific cooldown, not much is lost! But on the other hand, if the fight is just about over, holding these cooldowns FOR A BIT there is perfectly reasonable 😊 I hope this clears up a bit why we tend to talk about using *everything* on cooldown! 😊

[@dragonmangames2523]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Since Wildfire is single-target, that one can get away with being a boss-only skill. Matter fact, I'd say Wildfire was ALWAYS better as a boss-only skill. But "fat mobs" in trash pulls it works well for, too.

[@k0shachiya_myata]

Now do MINE with these restrictions😂

[@ZaestraXD]

Now do a whole group with no job stones and see how high you can handle.

[@Viech54]

Because you have curebot in the thumbnail: Yes, you would succeed if everyone played terribly so long as you bring a curebot. Unless the current duty has an enrage. Although if I were a competent player with only bad players, I'd have attempted to vote kick the entire group and reported everyone for lethargic gameplay. Assuming it seemed like they're not just bad, but doing it on purpose or couldn't be bothered to read their tooltips (buy a skip, then don't know how to play, etc.) Failing that, I'd dip and just do it with trusts/duty support if available. Which is already a viable option for DPS thanks to slow queues partially caused by being in an expansion with 2 new DPS. By the time I can get my dailies queue to pop and clear content, duty support can do more. Just the highest leveling dungeon with duty support is faster than with other players most of the time as DPS.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Well in fairness, we had mp issues at some points exactly because a cure bot might actually run out if everyone else is just as lazy! 🤣

[@WikiED]

the 95 dungeon might be impossible to do that way as final boss has fair chunk of unavoidable dmg and might exhaust all the mp.

[@KingGuddles]

Half a dozen drinks and a completely pissed FC 4 stack would be a good experiment. You could be the best raider but no one is good after half a bottle of whisky.

[@ThePogieJoe]

But real question here when I play as a dps (just finished heavens ward) I like to save just my 2min buff for bosses. I just don’t really feel it is worth it as all the pulls are really have been really small. Just seams like a waste if there is only like 3~5 enemies to kill.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

If the group is pulling just one pack at a time it might seem kind of awkward. However if the tank is pulling more than one pack at a time, under most circumstances, if you use everything you have on the first pull, all those big cooldowns will be ready again either just before the boss, as you engage the boss, or super early in the boss fight. But yes if the tank isn't pulling very much I can understand it feels weird 😊

[@asdsad17]

If everyone suck, you will probably stuck not clearing a leveling dungeon. I'm serious. I've been in lv87 dungeon wipe fest.

[@lavenderdreamflyer4232]

I'm imagining the lack of enjoyment and excess patience for using a level 30 toolkit in a 90+ dungeon. eek!

[@Strider_Shinryu]

My only thought is honestly to face palm when people complain about the parties they get grouped with. If you asked around (or even just read this very comment section) you'd be immediately told that "every group I end up with is this bad!" or "Man, on my server, EVERY group sucks like this!" and it's just like "No."

[@lecrab8090]

Would be an average FF experience

[@TokyoLove78]

im playing tank as my main 99% of time... when i switch to heal , i see often tank not using the 60 cooldown debuff on the boss. (even with people using the slowdown boss) But i m remembering until shadowbringer , i never used the slowdown buff. (only since i up my warrior, i don't know if it's because he begin level 1 , but i mastered my paladin thanks to him. Even playing correctly my DK (the one i hated before) Now i m using perfectly all my buff in dungeons. oh and PLD > ALL.

[@Catastrophe573]

Do you think you could do an Extreme or an Unreal, just focusing on mechanics? And using as few skills as possible? Such a big deal is made of DPS. Too many channels talk about class balance, optimal play, rolling your GCD, fight uptime, and aligning buffs. And that stuff is important, but only if your mechanics are clean. Good DPS might drop a dungeon from 20 minutes to 16, or an extreme fight from 11 minutes to 9. But it is far more important (to me) to get the clear. And to get it reliably. This video proves how little skills matter, if just the mechanics are done well enough.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Most extremes and savages are blocked off simply because they either do too much damage for healers to be able to hold on playing the minimum like this, or Alternatively, the hard enrages are too tight to do the absolute bare minimum attack wise and for that to be enough. For many savage, and even extreme fights, part of the motivation to push the damage as much as possible is also that it sometimes enables players to beat the boss before some difficult mechanic comes up or must be dealt with. This of course further emphasizes the problem in a way. To answer your question however: MOST a realm reborn extremes would be beatable with all dps fighting like this, I believe. This is because, synced, they are all beatable with 3-4 players or so, most of which are tanks and healers anyways, and usually the enrage timer only becomes a limiting factor if the mechanics are beatable with 2 players anyway. However, while this would mean these bosses are beatable by just mastering their mechanics, mastering their mechanics is a much more short term solution, compared to mastering your job (as that would shorten, for instance, the entire raid tier, and every other fight imaginable really). To give a bit more context to your example of "making an extreme fight go from 11 to 9 minutes", often it comes down to what two minutes are being saved. In just the current raid tier, more damage allows you to skip multiple of the more difficult and easy to wipe to mechanics on M1S (raining cats come to mind). M2S you'd skip rotten heart which is a very easy to wipe to mechanic with a bunch of team work. M3S happens to be more front loaded so I guess it mostly skips a tank buster. M4S however allows you, with enough damage, to skip sunrise sabbath which some would probably say is either the hardest, or second hardest mechanic in the fight. As in, damage performance just means you don't need the mechanical skill! 🤔😊 Sorry that got a bit rambly, but the long story short is that in most "hard content" (extremes etc), doing more damage is so incredibly handy, which is why people focus on that. There are MOST DEFINITELY players that focus on this beyond reason, and even do so beyond safety, where it stops being helpful. But good rotation and good mechanics tend to go hand in hand!

[@Emily-fl5xs]

I play on crystal, this is just tuesday on the duty finder

[@NabsterHax]

Using jobstones is basically cheating, though.

[@prismaticstars7587]

What was the gear in that run? It'd be pretty funny if you also ran the dungeon with only some credendum and majorly EW DT dungeon gear (at most 2 per) seeing how noobs probably wouldnt know to buy full credendum.

[@fluffyfang4213]

Having seen my fair share of "heal-only" healers, I can thankfully(?) say that most of them do some DPS if it's part of a heal. Assize, for example. So while I've seen some healers do incredibly low DPS, it has been months since I was last partied with a healer that did 0 DPS. And just to inflict psychic damage to anyone reading this, they were a SGE of all things.

[@fluffyfang4213]

Though on the topic of clearing content while playing poorly, I don't think it's generally an issue if people are doing mechanics correctly, but players with low DPS tend to not notice certain mechanics like when an add spawns or when they're doing 0 DPS. A9 and O12 are such great examples of this you don't even need a parser to notice the difference.

[@arkura1812]

This makes me wanna do the 2 challenges, i had in mind before. No job stones. Or no job quest skills. for the entire party. there is a "organic way" for at least a summoner and scholar to not have done their jobquests. Since you they share levels, if u only play one job all the time the other one is also max level without having learned any of the job quest skills.

[@encapturer]

My friend went into Jueno on summoner without doing the lv70 quest and was very confused on how the job doesn't quite work right.

[@morublade8401]

The game need battle result (per battle not per dungeon run) Example: Dps used all CD in battle = rank S

[@SeraphXS]

Watching that was proper agony, but I have seen many many players like that, just not in the same group,

[@tanhongyi7180]

I have an extremely low benchmark to consider someone as "bad" in their gameplay : If I'm clearing the duty faster with duty support npcs than I did with you, it means you're worse than npcs. Yes, you're worse than Wuk Lamat/Alisaie.

[@dragonmangames2523]

Yeah...this is why I usually prefer to do dungeons on Duty Support first. There's only ONE that I can't do it on. Yuweyawata Station. Why? Second boss mechanics.

[@Merrylennium]

You don't actually have to play with other people at all to level classes. I level classes while leveling the trust system. So even though I have my tanks leveled doesn't mean I'm good at tanking lol. The npc bots can't complain.

[@iPlayOnSpica]

I die inside every time I queue as AST and come out as top dps... because I almost always card other players, so if I was top dps this whole time, I should've given myself ALL the cards. I can give one small exception for DRG on certain low levels because AST Gravity out-dpses DRG Doom Spike spam.

[@FatalHog]

Now take this to the next extreme, can you complete a endgame duty without having jobstones.

[@wrongname2702]

I've had less than 20 minutes left in amorot barely clearing the last boss. I couldn't figure it out why it was taking so long besides the deaths but single pulling tank not using defensives and I was doing dmg on healer (ast on launch of shb was rough) but no one was new to the duty. Some people don't try their best and you can only do so much to fix it yourself. It is fun when a 24 man comes out and doing that blind. Like monastery blind was great we didn't clear it until the 3rd attempt but it was so much fun

[@WolfmanXD]

This brings the whole "Dawntrail is too hard" thread from the official forums from a few months ago to an absurd new level. You can play your absolute worst, and STILL be good enough to get through the basic content of the game. You should try doing this with the Arcadion normal raids, seeing as how that's what people were bitching about.

[@dragonmangames2523]

Were the obvious tells in that raid really not that obvious?

[@nev2221]

Try the Mch, Brd, Mnk, Smn party gamer comp. You finally get to use the niche buttons.

[@Gloriankithsanus]

You got it all wrong. What this should have been: - No role actions - No attacking while moving - No weaving of oGCDs - Healer doesn't attack - No slide casting - No mitigations

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I feel like the restrictions we did have covered most of those things though 😂

[@rimurutempest7798]

did a dungeon today with the tank only auto attacking to keep aggro

[@Kesekuchaen]

One the one hand, it's sad that it's so easy. On the other hand, it makes me think of the opposite; try to find a crack team to use absolutely every ounce of dps you have to get through dungeons as quickly as possible. Would be a fun video idea I think. Kind of like Castrum runs back in the day, where you had so many little optimisations available if every one knew what they were doing, but only if absolutely everyone was on the same page