What is a DD217?

[@JoIn-y5s]

Retired combat veteran. I'll make it simple. I was SOCOM. Our motto was "If we don't know what we are doing, how can the enemy ever figure it out"?.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Being unpredictable is the number on advantage humans will always have.

[@dogwoodservicesinc.2972]

Love it. I think CENTCOM should’ve adopted that one as well…

[@MrEye4get]

That motto is cute and stupid. No way it is used in SOCOM.

[@santamanone]

That’s similar to what a German general said about US forces in WW2. He said the reason US forces did so well was that war is chaos and Americans practice chaos regularly.

[@robertusiak7190]

A reason for the US Government and its entities to start running like an efficient business, not something out of the post-industrial revolution times.

[@danielvillarreal6610]

In 1990, the Honduran Army also had (possibly still has) a wallet-size version of the discharge certificate that hangs on the wall. Their form of draft notice was for a commander to send troops out to grab guys at gunpoint, load them onto a truck, and take them to the battalion to start their recruit training and two years of mandatory service. When the Army guys would start grabbing draftees from nightclubs and movie theaters, veterans would reach for their wallets and show their discharge certificates and get the Honduran version of “Thank you for your service!” A practical card, indeed!

[@the_bureaucrat]

Oh...that is really interesting. I didn't think how something like this would be handy in a pre-information age world.

[@danielvillarreal6610]

@ It beats getting dragged off for a second two-year tour! :)

[@RoyatAvalonFarms]

​@@danielvillarreal6610that is why they need a 2nd Amendment ....

[@whereswaldo5740]

And that worked?! If you are so desperate that you conscript men you don’t care about such things. Just that you are a “warm body”.

[@TheBlackToedOne]

That's close to how my grandfather said he "enlisted" in the Greek army. He said one night they came into the house, woke him up and said, "You want to be in the Greek army, right?" to which he replied, "Uhhh - yes?" And THEN they made him change his name because it was Slavik and they didn't allow Slavs in the Greek army. So our surname is less than 100 yrs old, and there are literally seven people alive in the entire world today w/ that last name - and 4 are my kids. 😄

[@mr16ga]

From my own dd214 experience there were several things missing. All my overseas (sea time) and my awards. I got the awards, two expeditionary medals, a Humanitarian Service medal, and a MUC. None of it on the dd214. It takes awhile for records to catch up.

[@the_bureaucrat]

One thing that you can request from the National Archives is you OPMF which should be a more comprehensive documentation of your service (not just a single document).

[@RoyatAvalonFarms]

In conjunction with a DD 214, there is a DD 215, which is an amended DD 214. If changes or corrections are required after a 214 is issued, then it is posted on a 215.

[@the_bureaucrat]

That is correct. It always struck me as funny that the amended form had a different number.

[@anthonykaiser974]

​@@the_bureaucratI suspect it's similar to orders amendments.

[@skipstreet]

I enlisted into the Navy in 1983 under the 3 x 6 enlistment and non-desigated. Even though I was active duty I was designates USNR. While I was in my first command I stuck out for AT and got it but I was required ti extend my enlistment 1.5 years. During my training we filled out our dream sheet and I volunteered for aircrew and SAR. That required another six month extension. The 3 x 6 was three years active, 1 year active reserve, and 2 years inactive reserve. Anyway, when I separated I got my DD-214 and went into the reserves. At some point I was not able to continue drilling and I had completed all required time. My final release from the reserves was in 1990. While active in the reserves I took the E-5 exam but I was released before the results came out. Shortly after my release date I received a DD-256 in the mail and I had been advanced to E-5. I required a new DD-214 but received a copy of the one I already had. It does not have any of my reserve time or command on it.

[@skyhawk7935]

I was with VF-32, an F-14 squadron 1978-1982. (AMS2) I too agreed to re-enlist if I could get air crewman or SAR. But since the squadron was just starting work ups, and I was a short timer, they left me on the beach at Oceana and the offer they gave me was a transfer to a brand new FA-18 squadron. I got out and discovered there was a lot more money in commercial aerospace. Retired now, but what a hell of a ride that was. My last job was building the tail section of the 787 Dreamliner.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@skipstreet, shoot me a note at [e-mail] if you want to work on this together. My recommendation would be to start with the National Archives (www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records). Request your OPMF and DD214 from them and see what they give you. Then there is a way to request a correction to your DD214 that we can work on if you need it.

[@jtns2845]

dd214 is for service on active duty only. if you had further reserve duty only, i.e. drills (idt) and active duty for training (acdutra), you can only get a dd256, if enlisted. i retired as a usnr officer with only idt and acdutra so i only got a letter of retirement and a non-numbered, secnav-issued certificate of retirement. my only dd214 is from 13 months of enlisted active duty in the early 1970s.

[@rpm12091]

I got out in 1975, my 214 has several errors but I can’t get it corrected because my records burned up in 1973 figure that one out.

[@jtns2845]

@@rpm12091 seek help from a veterans service organization, e.g. vfw, am legion, catholic war veterans, etc. by law they must, and freely do, aid nonmembers.

[@garbo8962]

I applied on line to replace my DD214 two months ago and still waiting. Was honorably discharged when I came back from Nam over 50 years ago. Did take my original DD214 to my city hall where they think out a copy if it in microfilm and stamped an ID # on the DD214. Of course when I called City Hall they did not have a clue and told me to show up in person.

[@the_bureaucrat]

That thing about recording your DD214 at the courthouse can be a bit dodgy. Shoot me a note at [e-mail] if you want to chat...I can't do much to help, but email is often a better way to dig into these things.

[@allanrickman7482]

Another of our records were lost in a fire back in the 70s. All my records 201 file ect. Are gone.

[@TedBronson1918]

I like the DD217. They should bring it back. It would be a lot easier to just show that card than to present a copy of your DD214 to prove military service for a job or whatever.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I feel similar after reading about it.

[@TedBronson1918]

@@the_bureaucrat Wouldn't it save everyone from applying for the various veteran ID cards ? Right now Retirees (including medical retirees) get a blue ID, but otherwise you have to be in the service or a dependant. Regularly discharged veterans need to apply for a card from the VA or the military. The DD217 would simply give EVERY veteran a card as they get out.

[@charlesbyerly3068]

I have one for ya, look into a DD Form 220. I have spent 9+ years trying to get the VA to recognize it as a valid form.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@charlesbyerly3068, that's an Active Duty Report...if you reported, wouldn't you have more documents for when you separated? Hit me up at [e-mail] if you want to dig deeper.

[@raymondjoseph7177]

Love ya videos. Very informative. Happy New Year.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Happy New Year to you too! I'm glad you like the videos.

[@Duckfarmer27]

Well that answers a few questions. My wife had 7 older brothers (3 now deceased). All of us served. On our annual camping trip together (did that for 42 years) a couple times one or two of the 'old timers from the 50s' told of - and had - a DD217. Us young guys who served in the 60s and beyond (two of us are retired military) had never seen such a thing. Having spent a year as a battalion adjutant at the tail end of Nam I could tell you more horror stories on records. Good intentions sometimes end up with FUBAR situations one can't believe. My favorite was the hand drawn/colored certificate a recruiter gave a kid guaranteeing him he would be trained as a nuclear power plant operator. He was an E2 63B10 in the motor pool - the 1SG sent him to BN to 'see the LT - he's a straight shooter'. He wanted to know when he was going to nuke school. Had to explain the facts of life to him. Choice A - do a congressional (like I really needed THAT one but fair is fair) and never let the certificate out of your hands. Choice B - like your job in the motor pool? Hang in there. He hung in there. Your videos bring back mostly good memories - have a Happy and Safe New Year

[@lelandgaunt9985]

Check! Airborne!!

[@the_bureaucrat]

The road to FUBAR is paved with good intentions. I've been guilty of the "hand written" document from time to time. I was a property book officer a couple times and there would be these weird situations where there just wasn't time to do the paperwork right so I'd scribble something down on a piece of MRE cardboard promising someone that I'd fix it when we got back to headquarters. I'm glad you like the videos.

[@richardpeoples8019]

Mistakes and missing infor on mine too, but nothing but a hassle to try to get it corrected and they don't care.

[@the_bureaucrat]

And you gotta ask, would it matter if you jumped thru all the hoops?

[@JuanGonzalez-hv6vs]

I almost had a heart attack when I saw a previous video about the DD 217. For a minute, I thought I was missing it. However, I knew I had my DD214 to apply for and receive my VA benefits. What a relief-I don't need the DD 217.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@JuanGonzalez-hv6vs, I try for a more boring kind of content. 😂

[@donalddodson7365]

I got my "suitable for framing" Certificate in the Spring of 1968. Mine was signed, personally ... by then President Richard M. Nixon. 😂

[@the_bureaucrat]

Nice...

[@Blackopsmechanic338]

Take your DD214 to the courthouse and have it filed. Here I received a certificate/document for DMV so that a designator can be put on my license. I have a hard copy, filed in county records and on my license. Peace

[@the_bureaucrat]

YES! However, be aware that some states limit the specific people and conditions under which that document can be accessed. And, of course, it is a good idea to make sure your kids know its archived at the courthouse.

[@Blackopsmechanic338]

@ very true. The reason I filed it is for safe keeping. Working with military records in Atlanta can be frustrating. Also, this way I know if my house burns down at least this document will be secure. I believe it cost me less than $5 to file. Have a safe and prosperous new year. Peace

[@stevejorgensen5274]

When I got out I filed mine at my Court house. Needed a copy so I went to get it. They told me they did not have a record of it being filed. I then had to get a copy. It came with most of the information on it redacted. I tried to get an unredacted copy but could not. That copy disappeared so I had to get another copy. It wasn't redacted but has little information on it. It does still say medical for discharge reason. I later when applying for VA benefits one was provided in the packet. It did not have medical on it. I supplied copy three. Oh all had my original signature on them. Most of what was on the first one was covered by a NDA.

[@TedBronson1918]

@@stevejorgensen5274 Every state has some sort of Veterans Affairs office at your State Capitol city. They will have a record of every person from that state who has gone into the military - including a copy of their DD214. One of the quickest ways to get a copy of your DD214 is to request a copy through the Veterans Affairs office in the state you enlisted in. It's important that you go to the office in the state that you enlisted in because that is the one that has the records - not your state of residence ! It sounds like you went through a big runaround when one phone call would have solved your problems.

[@robertusiak7190]

Years ago, I spent the 2 dollars at the DMV in Florida upon renewing my Driver's License, to present my DD-214 and have that Veteran's designation put on the License. That can be helpful, but unfortunately, many businesses and people in general were never really educated on this to recognize that Veteran's Status. It's unfortunate, but too many people don't care, and it all seems to be an afterthought, not realizing the impact a Veteran has had.

[@oldtop4682]

Hmmmm, so the military got rid of the DD 217, and now folks have to go get a veteran ID from the VA (or state). Seems to me that the 217 should make a comeback.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@oldtop4682, it seems funny to me...When I put this video together, I was thinking that the DD217 went away for a good reason. But after listening to the comments, it seems like it served a fairly useful purpose.

[@RickyMatthews-b7h]

Getting anything done today at the VA is like Me getting a Date with Carmen Electra, it not going to happen. I went to the Veterans Administration and spent 4 1/2 hours there, and came back with nothing. And I had the proper paperwork, my DD214, My Honorable Discharge Form from the Marine Corps.But, if You just get off of the boat, and You get Social Security for being in this Great American Country for 5 minutes. FUBAR! Take care of those Who took care of This Country. In which You Served for the United States of America, then You should be compensated for Your time of Service. A lot of Homeless People are former Army, Air Force, Marines, and Navy. Let’s take care of Our Veterans Who served,and forget about the People who just got off the boat.

[@woodeye6699]

I have a copy of my😮 grandfather’s Discharge Certificate from the US Navy in 1915. Of course there was no form number, and it was signed by a senior enlisted on his ship.

[@the_bureaucrat]

You almost had me falling down the rabbit hole of "when did the DOD start using numbered forms"...

[@scottmacleod6301]

​@@the_bureaucratdo it. I'm curious.

[@RickyMatthews-b7h]

And why was the document signed by an Enlisted Person, instead of a Officer? That’s really unusual, even for time period.

[@robertusiak7190]

I have my Dad's Army Uniform from the 1950's era. I also kept all my stuff from the USMC, 1970's-1980's era.

[@almartin4]

My DD214 for 11 years of Army service was lost in a house fire. I was able to get pdf copy from the Army Personnel Branch. When I took it to the MVA to update my license they refused to accept a copy, only originals. Only relented because I had other government IDs. Regards

[@the_bureaucrat]

I get sick of that...in the information age what the heck is an "original" anyways?

[@jhenderson3037]

Better hold on to the DD214.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Yep.

[@TheBlackToedOne]

I took a picture of my DD214 and emailed it to myself. When I've needed it (i.e., proof of service at the DMV) all I've needed to do was to open my email and search DD214, open the attachment and I've been golden every time.

[@craigthibodeaux5530]

when I was discharged from the USAF in 1977, I was offered to buy, a laminated wallet sized copy of my DD214 and stack of maybe 20 or 50 ? maybe half sized paper copies....and the advice to go to local courthouse and file my original as a 'legal' document? Fast forward...I didn't make the courthouse trip, but used a few of the paper copies a few times when the entity would accept a copy....and I also used the wallet sized copy numerous times...only stopped carrying it a few years ago, as the lamination was finally failing...hardly anything made like it was then.

[@TheBlackToedOne]

@craigthibodeaux5530 Amazing when we look back at what once was, isn't it? Like smoke breaks during basic. 😄 Happy New Year, my friend. Aim High.

[@craigthibodeaux5530]

@@TheBlackToedOne light em if you have em...get down-get up...heel t toe. I miss the Coors Beer machine in the barracks at tech school...and keeping em cool between the window and screen, it was Colorado.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@TheBlackToedOne, that is a wonderful idea.

[@Dano12345100]

Smoke 'em if you got 'em! Heard that a lot in 12 years!

[@MDavidW100]

Yay! Thanks Chuck!

[@the_bureaucrat]

Really? This is a weird one!

[@RoyatAvalonFarms]

Ironically, when an officer, and maybe enlisted too, retire from the US Army Reserve, NOT from an active status, you do not get a DD 214. You only get a permanant order telling you that youre effectively too old and to get the hell out. Do not pass Go. No not collect $200. However, a National Guard counterpart does get a NG Form 214, which is the National Guard version of the DD form. As of my 1 year anniversary of retiring, a personnel Warrant informed me that the army was soon going to correct that and begin issuing 214s to retirees, but they did not plan to make it retroactive to go back and issue these to previous retirees. Quite rediculous to spend 33 years, enlisted and commissioned, peacetime and war, active, NG and USAR and NOT get a piece of paper which attests to that fact. Horse shit!

[@the_bureaucrat]

Apparently that warrant officer is correct. There is a new "DD214-1" which is a "Reserve Addendum" that is supposed to come into full effect later this year. I probably owe a video on that one.

[@jtns2845]

@@RoyatAvalonFarms same for retired usnr officer without extended active duty.

[@anthonykaiser974]

You're expecting DoD to do backdated DD 214-1s? On the taxpayer's dime? Where do we draw the line? At some point, that's a ridiculous expense given the fact you have a retirement order and any actual DD 214s.

[@RoyatAvalonFarms]

@anthonykaiser974 I do expect this. Since the govt f'ed this up to begin with by NOT providing such a document, which they acknowledge by now correcting the problem, then they owe it those of us who gave our entire adult life to the service of this country. If these sumbitches can dedicate over $100 billion to a shitty country like Ukraine, then they can dedicate a bit of money to retired vets so we have a proper DD 214 like every other veteran, including one who only spent 2 years in the military and then got out.

[@douglassshephard3732]

I have a DD-214 from 96, a letter of retirement from the Army from 96, a discharge paper dated 21.05, and the Army will not give me my retirement pay even though I have a honorable discharge, have you ever heard of something like this.

[@stevepettersen3283]

Contact your US Senator or US Representative.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@douglassshephard3732, I'm with @stevepettersen3283 on this one...don't hesitate to engage your elected representative (pound for pound, I recommend the senator over the representative). You might consider sending your Service's retirement branch a letter that basically says, "I am preparing a letter to my Congressman on this matter...here is all the information which I have provided you...here are the responses you have given me...Is there anything missing?" Basically, it's part threat - part friendly last chance. And if you include their response to that final email in your letter to your Congressman, it puts you on the moral high ground.

[@RickyMatthews-b7h]

I’d contact both, Your Congressman and Senator. You’re entitled to receive Your benefit money, there should not be any restrictions on Your benefit money.

[@emitchell6730]

I discharged in January of 70 and all I ever received was a DD 214, nothing else. When a friend tried to get a VA loan to buy a home he found out at that time the Navy gave him an Undesirable discharge. I'm pretty sure he knew and was the reason he was denied the loan.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Hmmm...I guess he played it close the vest as long as he could.

[@TPaine1776]

Paperwork never dies, just gets an occasional facelift.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Indeed.

[@zoejanexy]

I’ve got a copy of what looks a lot like a dd256 on my wall from when I was discharged in 2005. The actual form number is covered up by the frame. But it looks almost identical to the Air Force form you showed. Just says United States Army on it.

[@the_bureaucrat]

That would be the one. The DD256 came in branch specific versions with "Army" or "Air Force" prominently printed on the certificate. And the full document ID was DD256AF or DD256MC.

[@RickyMatthews-b7h]

Anything hand written is worthless, especially in the Armed Services Department. If the paperwork isn’t genuine Military Paper Documents, You’re not going to get a damn thing. Everything is by Their Books, even if They’re the Ones messing up Your paperwork. Just copy Everything and ALWAYS KEEP YOUR ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS. Copied Documents are worthless. But, spending a lot of time at Their Office, and You leave and say that’s FUBAR! Semper Fidelis

[@schlirf]

Strange, despite all of the "improvements" the VA lost my medical records in 1986.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Frustrating right?

[@schlirf]

@@the_bureaucrat enough to get me cussing like Muttley...

[@wesleyferguson6932]

I received a 217 and still can't get the VA to do anything to help me. I served in the UNITED STATES NAVY RESERVES. In the 1990s during Desert Storm. Im supposed to be a Veteran by federal law. I still am due 2 ribbons also. Im very upset .

[@ktl4539]

Were you deployed overseas? Directly involved in DS?

[@the_bureaucrat]

@wesleyferguson6932, shoot me a note at [e-mail] if you want to chat more. @ktl4539 is asking the right questions and there is probably a series of facts to document to hop over these particular hurdles.

[@dougearnest7590]

I could tell right away the DD-217's you showed were legitimate government forms. There was not sufficient space to type the info required.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Ah...a man after my own heart!

[@kvnndvn]

Happy New Years, Colonel.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Happy New Years to you, old friend!

[@dwayne7356]

Do you have any stories like in the show MASH where they crossed out 'machine gun' and wrote in a 'pizza oven' on a form?

[@the_bureaucrat]

I should probably do a video on the influence of MASH on the military and what I think of as the cultural loss that young folks today just don't know those stories. Particularly the role of Radar O'Reilly. As far as gently modified documents? More often than not, my experience was on the other end where some goofy "error" in property accountability records came back to bite folks on the butt.

[@JamesSohol-t5s]

I just filed a DD 149 today, thats to change my honorable to medical, so i can get all my benifits!

[@the_bureaucrat]

Good luck...I'm curious how it turns out.

[@jimtownsend7899]

I got my 214s (1 for each hitch) but the problem I have is that when I retired, I couldn't do what my wife did and put in for a VA disability. I had no record of service-connected medical issues that would warrant consideration. Why? Well, when you're Navy Aircrew, you don't check the boxes on your SF88 when you get your annual flight physical. Because if you do, then the Flight Surgeon starts asking you about it, and the next thing you know, you're medically grounded. If it's serious enough to be considered permanent, they you no longer get your Flight Pay (which was up to $225 per month by the time I retired), and you had to change rate and get transferred to a non-flying billet. So, for the last 29 years, the only connection I have to the VA is when I take my wife for her appointments, tests, surgeries. And I get to visit the Hospital Exchange Mini Mart! Hooray!

[@the_bureaucrat]

Those flight physicals do cause a problem...I tend to recommend that fly boys seek a "miserable desk job" for their final assignment so they can start documenting medical conditions without screwing their career (because their career is already screwed.)

[@StirlingWorden]

I’ve gotten a copy of his dd214 to join the American legion

[@the_bureaucrat]

Really? I guess that makes sense, but I wouldn't have thought of it on my own.

[@MichaelRoberts-t7c]

I served 4 years in the US Navy and received a DD-214, i did an additional 3 years active reserves and did receive a discharge document in 1983 for the wall, no DD-214. I was never concerned as my framed discharge stated my enlistment is complete. What is concerning is during my active reserves I never was paid, not once. Each month I checked with disbursing and was told the paperwork is now corrected. Each person I spoke with lied to me and I never received one check for my active reserves. I have no faith in the VA.

[@the_bureaucrat]

That is really weird.

[@RickyMatthews-b7h]

Speak to Your Congressman and Senator, about this Veterans Administration matter, then, explain to the VA what You about to do, if the Veterans Administration does nothing, go for it and get Your hands on Your Money.. You earned that money, make sure that You get that money.

[@postcrisp]

In 1984, I r 0:09 eceived my SF-256, point of service, Honorable Discharge, after 9 months ACDUTRA OCS. Incident resulted in compounded orthopedic infirmary visits. How does one successfully seek and acquire the complete legacy, 8 part, DD-214 retroactively, today? Thank you for your service.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@postcrisp, I would recommend trying to get a complete copy of your Official Military Personnel File (OPMF) from the National Archives - www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records. I would also suggest that you aim for a "good enough" solution. Getting everything perfect on your DD214 may take a great deal of effort and not improve your benefits. Then if you want to chat more about it, please contact me at [e-mail]

[@Verb130]

Your list is missing my DD215 from 2002. That is a change form when a DD214 has an error.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Ho ho! that list goes on and on and on. But the DD215 is important and I'll probably do a video focused on it in a bit.

[@jameshartnett8947]

Your list of documents should also include DD Form 215. A document/form used to correct DD 214 errors.

[@the_bureaucrat]

You are correct the VA website lists it (www.va.gov/records/discharge-documents/)...I just couldn't fit the whole list onto a reasonably sized image.

[@harryharry3193]

The National archives is missing more than just those records from the fire. They cant find my service treatment records. 1984-1987 I have tried 5 times. no records on file. I have my dd214. I have va health care. Service treatment records are important in claims. Frustrating.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I've heard quite a few folks say that having a set of documents that "paints a picture of military service" is useful.

[@USMC6976]

It amazes me that the current active duty thinks the current rules have always been the rules before them. that selection criteria has never changed over time.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I'm with you...or that they think the rules won't change. I got the point that every time someone got flustered by this, I'd just starting singing "And the Army keeps rolling along..."

[@rogerriggs6055]

I was discharged in 96 Navy, at first i did know what you were talking about then i remembered my Dads discharge was in 46 guess what i found his dd-217 card also he was a ww2 navy vet.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Yeah, it is a different experience for different generations.

[@Maine307]

WIA, 20 yrs ret Marine.. at the end, due to a medical paperwork i was delayed my official 20 yr retirment, and was extended 6 months.. i have a DD214 and a DD215.. the miltar has fn ways of confusing us, when they could have just said " page 18 change 1 or someitnbg ..lol

[@the_bureaucrat]

I'm with you. Here's something that I think is just ODD...you would have thought that they would have used a "dash one" (like a DD214-1) to indicate a correction instead of a new number. But instead, they are introducing a DD214-1 but using it for documenting Reserve time. I'm certain that will cause no confusion.

[@tonyjsmt]

Don’t forget about the NGB form 22. Until recently, if you retired from the Army National Guard, this was the form you got, NOT A DD 214.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I owe you guys a discussion on that form and the general experience of service in the National Guard.

[@GoatLockerGaming]

Don’t forget about the DD-215… just an extension of the 214

[@the_bureaucrat]

Right...technically a correction to the DD214. @GoatLockerGaming ....actually, now that I think about it...there are a ton of people how keep saying that they "tried to fix their DD214, but couldn't"...I wonder if those people have a DD215 but don't realize what it is or where to look for it? Thanks for a well timed comment.

[@GoatLockerGaming]

@ Hey no problem sir! I honestly never knew about it until I came off a MOB some years ago.

[@jamesbass9797]

Well Mr. Bureaucrat. Here's the question you should be asking. Why did the Services change from the DD 217 to the DD 214? Any ideas?

[@deanmason5900]

When I got to basic they took my draft card, when I got back from Viet Nam they took my military ID.One day I was stopped in a driver license check point, and because of my age the State Trooper ask for my military ID, and I told him all I had was a DD 214 ,and it was at home. He took my driver license, and went back to his car, after a few minutes he come back, and told me I was free to go.l had been placed in a control group after my active service, and they never sent me any kind of an ID card. Was I supposed to carry that DD 214 ?

[@the_bureaucrat]

@jamesbass9797, based on the stories folks have shared from the 1960's it sounds like the DD217 was useful because of the draft and a pre-information age world. Essentially you could prove your military service by pulling something out of your wallet. Plus, the DD214 didn't replace the DD217. The DD214 existed back in those olden days. It's just a full sized government form. So you couldn't exactly fold it up and carry it everywhere.

[@jameshogan-ps2bz]

Received a laminated copy wallet size to carry when I mustard out of USA 1972. Received a large certificate of retirement from the USAF to hang on my wall in 2003. I don't see a dd form # on it

[@jameshogan-ps2bz]

Correction, it was not a dd217...it was a shrunk copy of my dd214

[@ktl4539]

Mustard? Must be an AF thing.

[@jameshogan-ps2bz]

@ktl4539 yea it was supposed to be muster. Didn't check what I texted. In the military the terms used by the Sargents was muster in and when you left(if you did not have enough time to retire) was muster out

[@the_bureaucrat]

I've heard a number of people who have the large certificate (DD256) say that you can't see the number because it's covered by the frame.

[@jameshogan-ps2bz]

@the_bureaucrat no not in a frame

[@Cetok01]

Do 'special operators' such as CIA, Delta, ISA, etc. have special IDs, (i.e., a get out of jail free card) they can show police or other officials? Otherwise, how would they convince local authorities, FBI, etc if they're detained, obstructed, or seeking assistance?

[@the_bureaucrat]

They would have to have some method of identification, but much like undercover cops, the method probably isn't simple.

[@alanaspurling6469]

Do they still give out the DD-256?

[@the_bureaucrat]

I don't think so. The DOD Instruction for the document doesn't direct its use. But at the same time, the responsible service for the form is the Air Force. So it is possible that they still issue it.

[@MW-jj1rn]

As a Veteran, I do not want to share my DD214. Years ago I applied for an armed security position. These firms now have your SSN, F and L name. DOB. Way too much information!!! Furthermore, I’m of the era when our SSN vs. Service Numbers were used. The DOD needs to make the VA Heath care card sufficient (Which by the way you can only obtain a VA ID card if you have an Honorable Discharge) or make it easier to obtain an DOD ID. My advice is this. If you must show a DD214 ensure it is highly redacted. The only thing they need is Honorable Discharge.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I tend to feel the same way. One of the technical reasons for this is that the different services have different codes for re-enlistment eligibility and someone just pulling stuff up on the internet can easily misinterpret an Army code as having the meaning of a Navy code.

[@RickyMatthews-b7h]

I just show The Employer my Honorable Discharge form, not my DD214 form, way too much information on that document, that the Employer doesn’t need to view or have any understanding of what’s actually on the DD214. Semper Fidelis!

[@StirlingWorden]

He’s passed in 89

[@the_bureaucrat]

That seems a while ago

[@amtb70x7anunkwn9]

I have Served over 20 Yrs in Navy & Army, I have Never been issued or awarded any " certificate " of Honorable Discharge. Why? I have two pages of Citations and awards that I have never seen, never been issued, awarded. ALLLL of my 2005 Medical Documents have Vanished from the earth when I submitted claims for injuries why on active duty( OIF/ OEF, 18th CORE, FT BRAGG, NC. 2005) I wonder where it all went??? 🤔😐

[@the_bureaucrat]

@amtb70x7anunkwn9, shoot me a note at [e-mail] if you want to go hunting for it.

[@robertcostellojr.8723]

What’s the deal with the DD215? I have recently been awarded service connection status for several of my disabilities. When my records held at NPRC in St. Louis were reviewed, I became eligible for several awards/ribbons and medals not yet struck in the early 1960’s and not yet created for operations like Desert Storm, OIF, OEF, etc. Thus, these awards don’t appear on any of my DD214’s. I was advised that a DD215 would be created/ published, whatever, to reflect my actual veteran status. Are you aware of such a document and what can you tell us about the DD 215? Thanx. RA - 1962-68 OCONUS deployed, and USAR IRR OCONUS deployed 1985-92. 🇺🇸

[@the_bureaucrat]

@robertcostellojr.8723 The DD215 is a "correction form" for the DD214. I probably owe you a full video on how that thing works...which is to say, I have to do some research.

[@billammann9807]

How is the DD213 form come into play?

[@the_bureaucrat]

The DD213 was a "Daily Record of Fuel Oil" canceled by DOD in 1960

[@Knife_Collector]

I tried to get a copy of my DD214 and they could not find the 214, nor a record of my separation. Instead I received a form 13038 showing name, rank, dates etc. Is this unusual?

[@the_bureaucrat]

@Knife_Collector - That form's full designation is NA 13038 "Certification of Military Service" and the form is controlled the National Archives. The VA Website claims that it can be used as proof of military service. What I can't figure out from a cursory internet search is WHY the National Archives would be issuing such a document (my guess is that it is created when they have to reconstruct a person's military record). Shoot me a note at [e-mail] if you want to dig deeper into this one.

[@chrisflowers-smoker154]

Now you just get a DEERS Card, but only if 100% T&P, or other Conditions.

[@the_bureaucrat]

There's a VA ID card too.

[@zoomerboomer6834]

Alas, you forgot to mention the notorious, godawful, bastard form... the NGB 22. The absolute bane of any servicemember who has had any composite service with any regular service branch and National Guard service. Most civilian employers don't even recognize it as a valid record of service. ARGGH!!!

[@the_bureaucrat]

That's coming...I have a buddy in the National Guard who had a nightmare experience with putting his retirement together.

[@zoomerboomer6834]

@the_bureaucrat Please do. I hope that your buddy's experience wasn't as awful as mine. Happy New Year!🎉🎉🎉

[@StirlingWorden]

My dad had a dd214

[@the_bureaucrat]

That's good.

[@wendamaltessee]

QUESTION............WHAT VA BENEFITS AM I ENTITLED TO???

[@the_bureaucrat]

@wendamaltessee, that would be based on some personal information. Shoot me a note at [e-mail] and we can put it together. And BTW, thanks for a great video idea.

[@boathemian7694]

Americas true form of freedom

[@the_bureaucrat]

Indeed

[@jraglob5924]

I have a DD 256 . Can I get either a copy of the wallet size card or a DD 214 in any way. When we were discharged we were not given a card and were told a lot of things by the first sergeant that I have found out are not true.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I believe some folks just take the DD256, shrink it down to wallet sized, laminate it, and carry it in their wallet. I've even heard people say that they did that with their DD214, but I can't imagine that it remains legible.

[@macmac3770]

Upon discharge from any branch, the DD214 should list all awards, decorations, schools, training and assignments. It’s up to service members to ensure “prior to” separation at a pre-separation briefing. It’s on you if there’s missing data.

[@daninraleigh]

Must be nice to get a pre-separation briefing.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I'm kind of with @daninraleigh with this one. @macmac3770 is 100% right if things go by the book, but even with a pre-separation briefing and the Transition Assistance Program its easy for typos and miscommunication to trip things up.

[@davidrandall7708]

Hello I need to make a couple of changes to my DD 214 who do I contact for this ? Thank you

[@the_bureaucrat]

@davidrandall7708 , That is going to depend on when and how you served and what you are trying to accomplish. Shoot me a note at [e-mail] and we can talk in more detail. The first place I would start is with your service HR office, but if you got out a long time ago, that might be a dead end.

[@daninraleigh]

All these scenarios sound very complicated. I just kept my ID card. It says INDEFINITE.

[@the_bureaucrat]

Yeah, this s*it gets complicated...simple solutions are good and it sounds like you found one.

[@RickyMatthews-b7h]

But, the ID Card isn’t indefinite because now, there’s a newer version of the ID Card.

[@StirlingWorden]

He retired in 80

[@the_bureaucrat]

OK

[@jimby2865]

DD 215 = correction/corrections to a DD 214

[@the_bureaucrat]

Correct.

[@sonnysantana5454]

their is a DOD DB-5' card

[@the_bureaucrat]

Isn't DB-5 a paygrade?

[@charlesfritz423]

Va card works

[@the_bureaucrat]

Great point.

[@StirlingWorden]

I know what a dd214 is

[@the_bureaucrat]

Did it all work out for you?

[@Ralphie_Boy]

👍🏼👍🏼

[@the_bureaucrat]

🪖🫡⭐

[@curiousgeorge5992]

Recognition of being a chump😢

[@the_bureaucrat]

Sad but true.

[@markcollins2666]

Here's a probing question: How does this pertain to anyone alive today? Useless information from a Government paper pusher, and a waste of my time.

[@the_bureaucrat]

@markcollins2666, I did this video because someone asked about the form. You would be amazed at the number of 70+ veterans who have really old paperwork boxed up somewhere. And the thing about vets in their 70's, 80's, 90's is that they are not necessarily managing their own affairs. It might be a daughter in law or even a grandkid dealing with a closet full of military stuff and the VA.

[@markcollins2666]

@@the_bureaucrat, so, what, we who served, are here to serve YOU?!? Paper pusher?!? The pathetic gatekeeper to prevent us from getting the care we need, and are OWED?!? Oh, man, you really make me sick.

[@rodeleon2875]

i have a dd214 and a dd215 because i'm special. my mom told me so.

[@the_bureaucrat]

I can only imagine the hijinks that proceeded you leaving the military. 🧨💥

[@gvonhellsing2]

I have been out for 40 years now and my DD 214 has never been up to date on all the things I did and went through such as schools and deployments, even my rank is wrong, but after getting out it really doesnt mean a whole lot no company will hire you because of whats on your DD 214.

[@the_bureaucrat]

See I think this is an important point...So long as you have a DD214 that covers the key points, what does it matter if it is slightly incorrect. I'm missing an award, but its not like someone is going to start crying "stolen valor" over it.

[@haydenroe403]

Looking back at history. I wouldn’t be surprised if the fire that destroyed records was not an accident. 🤔🪬

[@the_bureaucrat]

The timing of that fire is REALLY unusual kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZfck4iKf8yIsK8

[@TomTom-ku6qi]

The VA is incompetent & WORTHLESS ! From a 72 yr old veteran.

[@the_bureaucrat]

That's an interesting insight. I mean...the VA is the bureaucratic apparatus that connects vets to benefits defined by Congress. How much value could they really add?