What is a plasma tweeter?

Years ago there was a massless tweeter called the Blueflame and it was an incredible sounding high-frequency driver. Whatever happened to that tweeter and the Hill Pasmatronic speakers? Have a question you want to ask Paul? www.psaudio.com/ask-paul/
I am getting close to publishing my memoir! It's called 99% True and it is chock full of adventures, debauchery, struggles, heartwarming stories, triumphs and failures, great belly laughs, and a peek inside the high-end audio industry you've never known before.
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[@juliaset751]

Many years ago, Nelson Pass designed a full range plasma speaker. He ended up in the hospital for a time because of Ozone poisoning. It was a pretty speaker though, and was rumored to be fantastic sounding.

[@bobhenry2411]

See this discussion of the Hill Plasmatronics: www.stereophile.com/content/hill-plasmatronics-type-1-loudspeaker

[@bobhenry2411]

And see elaboration: hillplasmatronics.com/

[@ShadowHunter120]

I am not surprised about the ozone poisoning... Makes sense.

[@catified2081]

Hey Paul can you turn the lights on?

[@ThinkingBetter]

If you decide to pay 10s of 1000s of US$ for a stereo setup, paying a few 100s of US$ for a ventilation system sucking air from your tweeters to the outside should not be a hindrance for using these tweeters. I got motivated from this video.

[@gotham61]

Air is far from massless. If it was, a helium balloon wouldn’t rise, and wind wouldn’t be able to push around a wind turbine. It depends somewhat on atmospheric pressure and temperature, but at sea level air typically weighs about 0.8 ounces per cubic foot.

[@jonathansturm4163]

But we are talking here of plasma, not air. Plasma is that state of matter where atoms do not exist except for Hydrogen since it consists of solitary proton. The only way to confine plasma is with magnetic fields and that's rather difficult to achieve because plasma tends to disrupt magnetic fields. Plasma is not massless to be sure, but it's very low density.

[@astra004]

gotham61 and we wouldn’t hear anything.

[@James-iu2km]

Okay, I know I'm late to this discussion, however, in my view, the plasma would in fact be massless, or perhaps _negative mass?_ Here's my reasoning.... when the speaker is "off"... there is *Literally* "nothing" there but the already present air. There is no "Tweeter/Diaphragm" taking up space or having "mass"... hence "massless". My theory for it being "negative mass" is that when it's turned "on" there actually "Less Mass" than there was before, as the magnetic field, electric current and plasma are made from the ambient air and reduce the amount of mass in that space. The "tweeter/Diaphragm" (The object that causes the "air" to be carrying "sound") is *literally* the magnetic field, which doesn't have any mass. Just a thought.

[@supercompooper]

Acapella audio arts makes such a tweeter. I have them and they are great. The ozone is neutralized by a catalyst. Just google ozone catalyst.

[@jonathansturm4163]

Pretty easy to neutralise ozone; it's a very reactive form of oxygen. Just not a good idea to neutralise it with your lungs, or mucous membranes.

[@vlqlvlql7278]

how about Lansche plasma tweeter, are they any good? Or is it the same?

[@soundman447]

The Irony of Paul talking about inhaling things that are not good for us. lol Yesterday he was talking about inhaling and he did not seem to be bothered by that.

[@peterphilipp1976]

I guess some guys mentioned it earlier before, Lantsche Audio from Germany developed a former plasma tweeter and brought it to perfection. It's called the Corona tweeter and is considered the best sounding tweeter in the world! It's also available for the use for other speaker manufacturer. But in any point, if you have the opportunity to listen to some Lantsche speakers, don't miss it!!!!

[@raisinyao]

Hi Sir Paul have you heard about Lansche Audio? I think they have a plasma tweeter but don't know if it's the same as what you've said. Hope to hear your comments as this plasma is very interesting for me too. Thank you. :)

[@cittroman]

If you fix good ventilation it shouldn't be a problem.

[@BTom16]

This one was particularly enjoyable. Thanks.

[@richh650]

Great explanation as I had always wondered about the plasma tweeters as well.

[@sonntagskind84]

Hey Paul, this is the second time, you use the "Quadral Chromium Style" loudspeaker as your Thumbnail. I own a Pair of the "Quadral Chromium Style 8" and can say, that these are some really good sounding and affordable Loudspeaker. Did you ever heard them?

[@sonntagskind84]

EDIT: The one, which you can see, is the "Chromium Style 6", but i would recommend the "8". Its a little more expensive, but offers therefore a richer fuller sound at the base. The ChromiumStyle-Series has an aluminium ribbon (very very clear highs) and titanium-coated woofers. I do not get anything for advertising those here, but the are very very good. They create a really nice stage, and their soundcharacteristic is very even. And for such "small" Speakers, they a deliver suprisingly punch at the lower frequencies. You can get a pair of them for about 2000€. They are no high-end-stuff. But i do not think, that you can get a much more "bang-for-the-buck". Paul, if you heard them, it would be really nice, to hear or read your opinion about them. I am from germany, and visiting you at ps audio is not that easy, as you can imagine. So if you say something about them, i can understand you better, because in that case we have a common experience. By the way: I am using 3 of your noise harvesters. (one at the amplifier, one at the turntable, one at my computer) Especially the aluminium ribbons of the quadral benefits most of them. Since i use it, the difference between highres/CD/FLAC and compressed sources is easier to hear. Everything is just a little bit clearer and brings music a little bit more to life. It is no huge difference, but especially the one near the amplifier i do not want to miss anymore. Greetings from "good ol' germany". ;-)

[@ghostrecon3214]

I feel like I recall someone using helium to neutralize the ozone from plasma tweeters, idk about the chemistry there.

[@phreakinpher]

Watch the whole video much?

[@fookingsog]

Ozone = O3 is basically bleach in a gaseous form!!! Ozone can also be created by the xerographic process in copy machines, especially if it has a Corona & scorotron grid. The main way to neutralize ozone is with a carbon impregnated filter. Newer copy machines don't create as much ozone since they use a charge roller that transfers the voltage to the imaging drum. I do know that ozone kills termites!!!😂👍🏻

[@jonathansturm4163]

Ozone is only used as a bleach in the textile industry as far as I'm aware, and that rarely. Household and most industrial bleaching is done with chlorine, or hydrogen peroxide.

[@WillyJunior]

nerd

[@jonathansturm4163]

Oskar Heil's (not Hill) Air Motion Transformer was a kind of bellows and was filled with air IIRC, not helium.

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

I have a dipole version (Mundorf AMT 25d) of Oskar Heil's Air Motion Transformer , and it's the best tweeter I ever heard . Not cheap but worth every penny !

[@jonathansturm4163]

@ Gerrit Govaerts Many years ago, a friend purchased a pair of ESS AMT1s. I was impressed - sort of. Unfortunately he demonstrated them by playing some loud music very loudly. I always assess speakers by how they sound at low levels. Mainly because I listen to music with great dynamic range: Brahms' _A German Requiem_ for example. The bass and lower midrange were a bit muddy, but the top end was crystal clear, like another friend's Quad electrostatics, but much louder than the Quads could attain.

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

Yup I have a pair of Oskar Heil Kithara speakers. Phenomenal tweeters. I just recently got some room acoustic treatment and it has improved them so much being that they are a dipole. DO you use treatments with yours?

[@jonathansturm4163]

Turns out that someone called Hill did make a helium-fed (not filled) plasma tweeter. When Heil's AMT was first released it was commonly compared to plasma tweeters. My bad...

[@thebritisher72]

What's the thing that races across the carpet a couple of times before disappearing. Watch @ .25 speed Time 2.49

[@jonathansturm4163]

A rugrat?

[@gandab]

Something dropped on his head after that

[@gradydrago]

Mouse?

[@jonathansturm4163]

Mouse shit?

[@carolineleonard8214]

Mice can be fast but not that fast. I wonder.....?

[@gotham61]

Maybe the “Blue Flame” tweeter is the Ionovac? A company called Vaughn Loudspeakers currently remanufactures a version of the Ionovac

[@johnsweda2999]

I was thinking about that a little while ago and I was wondering why you couldn't put the Plasma tweeter inside say like a vacuum tube without the vacuum filled with gas this will trapped any ozone and still allow frequencies to pass through, Another way is to convert the ozone into another type of gas.

[@volvo09]

But then you have the resonance of the chamber ruining it.

[@johnsweda2999]

@@volvo09 yes but if the chamber is made to be residence at a higher frequency then it is audible not so much a problem the tube becomes the driver all drivers have a residence to them anyway

[@dantheman1998]

How you going to move air if the beam is in a vacuum?

[@jonathansturm4163]

@ John Sweda Easier to just remove all the oxygen from the listening room. No oxygen means no ozone production. Easy peasy...

[@johnsweda2999]

@@dantheman1998 if you read it properly I said without a vacuum", with a gas maybe helium argon or neon or just ozone I'm no chemist so I don't know what the reaction would be I know sound waves travel faster in helium than oxygen, but mixing ozone and helium together I don't know need a chemist to answer that!

[@elongatuspiranha]

I would die to hear this plasma tweeter

[@jgvtc559]

I wanna build my own floor standers who has the best comes i can buy and amps and crossovers

[@WelkySchullin]

Nice speakers at the outset.

[@pandstar]

They were probably Ionovac tweeters. That was the only manufacturer of plasma tweeter back in the 70's and 80's. that I am aware of.

[@krismichalsky]

Am I considered to be an audiophile if I own over 30+ high end car amplifiers? Most people would just plain call me crazy. I am using no less than 12 of them in various cars that I own.

[@BlankBrain]

Argon seems like it would work better than helium. It's inert and in greater supply. It's used to stir liquid steel in ladle furnaces.

[@Loganvbills]

Would need to vent the room. Argon will sit in the room and fill up the room. Helium goes up so it can vent from above.

[@alanhillsplasmatweeter7318]

Alan Hill's plasma tweeters do not make any Ozone because they use a glow discharge rather than the ozone-creating corona discharge speakers sold by Lansche, et al. The cost of helium is not so bad when compared to the cost of any high end gear, so why not snag a used pair of Hill's, Paul? ;-)

[@royferntorp3575]

Titanium diaphragms with a liquid-cooled voice coil doe a damn good job.

[@truthbydesign5146]

It’s a shame about the downsides to plasma. I just came across this tech today when I discovered the Corona plasma tweeter design (used in a 35k pair of Lansche speakers) .. The Corona looks like a sexy bit of kit though.

[@vessk000]

Give me a massless full range driver :)

[@russredfern167]

Interesting

[@robertsparkman8516]

Back in the 80's I read in Omni magazine about a guy with a 10 foot flame making a massive subwoofer. When I first heard of plasma tweeters I wondered if it was the same "technology".

[@user-xp7il2pl2x]

The fascination of the CORONA plasma tweeter lies in the hard-to-describe lightness of treble reproduction, linked with an absolutely insane precision and speed, without having to accept even a hint of hardness. The absence of any system-generated resonance in the whole transferred frequency range of 1.5kHz - 150kHz is remarkable! No other system is capable of achieving this, regardless of the principle used. Description The plasma tweeter’s mode of operation is responsible for this in that the sound is not sent out via a membrane consisting of a fixed material, but rather by the sound-transferring medium; the air itself. An 8 mm long arc is set up between an extremely small curved annulus in the middle of the combustion chamber and a high voltage outer electrode placed outside the tweeter’s combustion chamber. This arc forms an ionized gas cloud (ion field) which has five times less area and 100,000-times less weight (some weigh as little as atoms)than a fixed membrane. And, of course, the weight of the driver (moving coil) of the membrane should be counted as well because the two form one moving part.) The music signal itself is modulated and causes all points within the volume of the ion field to be accelerated exactly in unison by changes in the electric field strength. Annoying independent movements which characterize flat ring membrane speakers are plagued by their weight, small band systems or other representatives of the tweeter "old-school", do not occur using this principle. As a result of almost drag free (only the weight of the air) and virtually point-source emission, neither intensity loss nor directional sound can occur in the listening area through interference. The sound itself is generated in the small ionized airspace by the direct stimulation of the air molecules and spreads out from there serving to increase acoustic adaptation and raising efficiency. All treble signals are processed within the exactness of the ear faithfully and coherently. Errors in the amplitudes and phases do not exist. Unwanted noises are above the range of the best amplifiers and well above the available sources of noise. The CORONA plasma tweeter has a positive effect on the whole sound picture. Every instrument, thus even, for example, a double bass generates higher frequencies from scratching or striking noises which fall within the range of the Plasma tweeter. Furthermore an exact reproduction of the relationship contained in the ratio of direct sound to indirect sound can be made due to the group term (relation of phase difference to frequency segment difference) which is extremely low and is constant across the frequency spectrum. This is a basic condition for an exact 3-D sound. Thus the CORONA plasma tweeter stands apart in all sorts of ways from ordinary converter processes. With this tweeter we offer the quickest and best treble system in the world by far. For the mid and bass reproduction alone, where a lot of mass has to be moved, there has been an immense engineering cost to achieve a matching sound reproduction without a time delay between the nearly massless high tone reproduction and the mass burdened reproduction of the rest of the sound spectrum. Of course, a similar speed is impossible to reach with a mid range speaker or woofer. The speed of the moving air molecules (and therefore also of the driven membrane) is proportional to the frequency, it takes 100 times less speed to exactly reproduce 100Hz than it does 10kHz. Even so, for a speaker with self weight this still poses an immense challenge. This problem does not arise in a loudspeaker with a conventional tweeter. Through more sluggish and hence slower transmission of the treble, matching is relatively easy for similarly sluggish action in the mid frequencies, and, more specifically in the bass region. Due to recent events we would like to point out that the Corona Ion Tweeter has of course nothing to do with the Covid 19 virus or in any way an infection or spread in connection with the Corona virus.

[@backupinit]

what a pro

[@robbiemaynard]

Anyone else see the bird fly behind Paul at 2:49 ?

[@endrizo]

They are selling ozono makers or generators for home use..they say its good...they call it ozono therapy

[@jonathansturm4163]

Ozone would likely not outgas. It's _very_ reactive; much more so than diatomic oxygen. Anything remotely oxidisable will turn the oxygen atoms in ozone into oxides.

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

And then there's the neutron tweeter that makes sound by spraying radioactivity out into the room. Oh wait. I just woke up from a weird dream. So when the first plasma tweeter was invented was it known yet that O3 was a problem and if so what were they thinking?

[@jonathansturm4163]

"And then there's the neutron tweeter that makes sound by spraying radioactivity out into the room." Alpha, beta, or gamma radiation? Does it make Kraftwerk sound betterer? Curious minds...

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

With deference to Kraftwerk's cult classic status nothing could do that.

[@Brettjnash]

Hmmm do I hear hi-fi musical tesla coils in P.S. audios future??? Outdoor only of course.

[@bramweinreder2346]

Great, but, hear me out. Combine with panel speakers with double exciters and separate subwoofers. I'd really enjoy the sight and sound of that.

[@troybateson5908]

Cerwin Vega!

[@Oblivion_94]

I heard that the bass and the tweeters make the speakers go to war...

[@LakeNipissing]

This dude has to be one of the most pleasant human beings ever.

[@wilcalint]

I jest. The Hill Plasmatronics Loudspeakers. hillplasmatronics.com/ the only speakers I know of that shipped with a lead lined jock strap. Additional straps were available. I agree with Paul these were the best, but, your neighbors are going to become suspicious when the big bottles of gas are being delivered to your home on a regular basis.

[@shrodingersman]

Graphene speaker cones are an interesting proposal

[@belltocher]

Graphene diaphragm for electrostatic speakers

[@Loganvbills]

@belltocher Probably wont work. Graphene is too conductive. The diaphragm of an electrostatic must be only semi-conductive so that it can be charged with a positive or negative charge of high voltage direct current to give it its polarity. I would assume graphene would just arc. The other problem is that graphene cant be made into a large thin film and stretched out like a drum diaphragm. It has to be coated onto something else like a plastic film. So technically it might work, but it will still be a thin plastic film regardless. Might be able to go slightly thinner though!

[@nicolasjoly1755]

If you google plasma tweeter,you will find that Magnat designed a model, and today a Capella and Lanch have designed and are selling plasma tweeters with a negligible ozone ooze and an unreachable selling price , and as the acoustic level is quite low they had to put them in horns ' which impairs the 360° directivity.

[@jas_bataille]

No disregard, but you really need to how your mic deals with "pops" sounds - a lot of time when you say any word beginning with "p" or "s", there is a clear loud pop, that is very annoying. Otherwise, great sound. Placement issue to fix tho.

[@MrAM4D3U5]

answer starts at 2:30

[@cp070476]

No clue what a plasma tweeter is but i know what a plasma tv is! It's the best tv technology and sadly gone.. R.I.P

[@volvo09]

Yep, now we're back to low black level lcd's. Plasma is great.

[@cp070476]

@@volvo09 We have taken a step back in technology.. Plasma had superb blacks, superior motion handling. Shame

[@lrrrruleroftheplanetomicro6881]

@@cp070476 yeah, but oled beats plasma still. until it itself goes the way of the dodo.

[@cp070476]

@@lrrrruleroftheplanetomicro6881 Only on black level, plasma hands down motion handling. Also no image retention on a decent plasma it has more benefits than OLED.

[@brianmoore581]

I agree. That's why I still have mine. I think mostly they just want to sell light weight TVs that are easy to ship and easy to handle with no glass to break. Quality was a determining factor in the earlier days of HDTV because the majority of the people who were buying those TVs were doing so for the quality, better picture, but now that everyone has HDTV they are just in a race to the bottom, cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.

[@ashtongrist]

But we need to make ozone because we dont have enough and now theres a hole

[@finscreenname]

Put money on that they don't use the stereo being they are on the phone.

[@kencohagen4967]

Plasma Tweeter? Isn't Plasma a third state of matter? Or fourth. There is solid, gas and liquid. Plasma is closest to a gas. If that state of matter can be used to reproduce sound,.... it should sound amazing! No mass to overcome. No distortion because there is no mass, and with enough voltage, great efficiency!

[@bobhenry2411]

See this discussion of the Hill Plasmatronics: www.stereophile.com/content/hill-plasmatronics-type-1-loudspeaker

[@bobhenry2411]

And see elaboration: hillplasmatronics.com/

[@randomtube8226]

Could you imagine a totally plasma system with a plasma tweeter, midrange, midbass, and subwoofer? That would be wild. Probably would have to display it outdoors due to the amount of ozone that that thing would give off.

[@bobhenry2411]

See this discussion of the Hill Plasmatronics: www.stereophile.com/content/hill-plasmatronics-type-1-loudspeaker

[@bobhenry2411]

And see elaboration: hillplasmatronics.com/

[@altops4490]

LANSCHE AUDIO - Germany -

[@aleimata6271]

nunca había escuchado alguien tan gay solo para decir que no le gusta habiendo ya varios que no son dañinos para nada me suena a guerra de mercado y punto

[@joseluisgarciaortega3467]

Lansche audio

[@tariqmunir4593]

the.best.sound.is.in.cars.or.head.phones.yet.to .find.speakers.sound.like.headphones..