What is Black Radicalism? w/ Kehinde Andrews

[@dylanblue2271]

What a spectacularly good interview. Insight after insight after insight from Kehinde Andrews. It certainly expanded my consciousness and historical understanding of blackness and black radicalism. I'll be sharing it with anyone remotely receptive that I know. Thanks Aaron and Kehinde.

[@NovaraMedia]

Thanks!

[@dylanblue2271]

@J S No, I'm afraid that's not true. Do some basic research into the topic you're discussing.

[@oooo-zw6kx]

@J S That's fucking stupid that's like saying "you believe in femininity and masculinity YOU'RE SEXIST😡😡😡

[@justme20091000]

Greetings from a person of Indian nationality. Loved the talk. This is in relation to the tweet quoted at the beginning of the video, mentioning Gandhi. I've noticed that in all the references to the man, the only thing that's ever mentioned in international circles is his non-violence and/or his saintliness. The historical fact is that he was a very problematic figure if one stops to examine his politics, looked at from the lens of class, feminism, anti-capitalism, anti-authoritarianism, and especially for the dalits who have been, and continue to be, some of the most severely brutalized people in the world. Arundhati Roy's essay The Doctor and the Saint casts deeply disturbing light on his views of African people. Especially at a time of the resurgence of black resistance, isn't it incumbent on progressive left channels like this one, to be aware of research and revelations like that (since Arundhati Roy is no obscure figure and the essay was published a while ago), and problematize the sanitized figure of Gandhi? I'm worried less about Gandhi and more about his representation and symbolism in the contemporary world. This is terribly damaging to the people wronged by his beliefs, practices and politics, and also presents a falsely unitary depiction of the struggle of the people of the Indian subcontinent, as if we had no other leaders than Gandhi. He certainly should not be lumped together with Martin Luther King or other black and/or African leaders, considering the views he held of black people. Arundhati Roy has given several lectures and interviews on her essay (not least for the Lancet), so please dig up on this and make sure to educate your listeners and viewers on it. Make sure to really problematize Gandhi as you try to do with Churchill, the latter of whom has also been conveniently sanitized by his 'fight against the Nazis,' as if the allied resistance against the Nazis was motivated by the milk of human kindness flowing from the white breast. Respect and solidarity, chetana.

[@MIAJama-he5rp]

Great contribution. Many thanks

[@justme20091000]

@@MIAJama-he5rp Part of it was pure frustration but still :)

[@janguvpes7518]

As for your "isn't it incumbent on..." question - yes, very much so! But NM is actually one of the few places you get to hear about Gandhi's dodgy historical record. Just the other day, it was Ash Sarkar who had to correct a mistaken interviewer who thought BLM-goers had gone too far by tagging a statue of Gandhi, e.g.

[@justme20091000]

@@janguvpes7518 Thanks for letting me know about that. If they're doing it already that's great. I just feel that it must be done far more, in fact, every time any one mentions his name. Especially, when the talk is about black people.

[@justme20091000]

@@leecornwall8381 To be fair, it wasn't NM that did that here. I wasn't implying so either. Aaron just quoted someone else's tweet. Considering the topic, I just wanted that massive correction to be made while Gandhi was mentioned alongside other black leaders, no matter who did the mentioning. Gandhi is often talked about in the same breath as Martin Luther King. To me, knowing what I know, it's incredibly upsetting. How much more should it be for people of African dissent, if they knew the full story? In fact, according to what I've read, there have been some efforts on the part of African people and dalits to declare solidarity with each other. I don't know much about that history, but should be fascinating to dig it up.

[@LC-uz3og]

Omg YES can't want to listen tomorrow. Love Kehinde Andrews work.

[@hazelwray5307]

'Can't want'?

[@thesargs]

One of the best Novara talks. Thanks for this

[@davidbates3057]

What an incredible speaker. Kehinde vocalised the thoughts I've been wrestling with for the past 4 years beautifully. The Fox and the Wolf, what a metaphor. I've argued with leftists for a long time that Trump was a better President outcome than Hillary for our movement simply because at least you get to see what you have with Trump which gives rise to the opportunity to get the general masses on our side. Major props to Aaron. These Tuesday in depth interviews are becoming one of my favourite times of the week.

[@Danny79060]

I see your point but I feel it’s a bit of a stretch to argue that having a neo fascist in power as opposed to a centrist neo-liberal is a better outcome. It’s a tough one because Hilary would have still been a disastrous outcome for people of the global south, but I feel like pragmatically trump is far more damaging for normalising literal fascism

[@davidbates3057]

​@@Danny79060 I guess it depends on your definition of a Neo-fascist. If I thought Trump was even a mini Hitler I'd agree with you, but I see him more as your everyday Grandpa who regurgitates fascist and bigoted talking points he's been fed off mainstream conservative 'news' outlets. A real neo-fascist would have been masterminding those talking points. That's not to say that I don't think Trump is a sociopath and a narcissist, because obviously he is, but the far bigger issue with his administration is the people around him--people who, while they might wear a different coloured tie, are very much the same people who would have been around Hillary's cabinet, and will be around Biden's upcoming one if he gets elected. Trump gets an awful lot of credit for things that are being done by the Republican Party as a whole simply because he's a walking advertisement billboard for himself. You can remove him, but the Democratic Party is just the other side of the same coin. Both party's forward the same agenda while messaging to separate parts of the country, which is why when you look at Nancy Pelosi's 'resistance', it involves shouting down the things Trump says while signing off on every policy his administration lays out. If we look at the things Trump's team has done and how Hillary's might have compared it mostly amounts to presentation. Hillary wouldn't have left the Paris Climate Accord, but then the Paris Climate Accord is merely political theatre to appease the climate crisis activists, right? What has it seriously achieved other than a news headline when ever they have a meeting? She wouldn't have assassinated an Iranian political/military figure, but I'm not convinced she wouldn't be raising tensions with Iran since most all the middle east travesty is built on lies for the purpose of oil. Meanwhile, all the issues in Venezuela (more oil), Bolivia, Brazil etc would have happened just the same way. In fact they may even be worse, as arguably Clinton's administration would have been far more competent in those political acts of espionage. When you look at things like locking up migrant children on the border, the parts of the story left out are that it was Obama's administration that built those prisons and it was Jeff Sessions, Steve Bannon, and Stephen Miller who masterminded that awful policy. Trump for his part just did the press conferences to make himself look 'tough on immigration'. Yet Jeff Sessions, funnily and horrifically enough, is now revered in some 'left' media circles for no reason other than him being 'principled' enough to recuse himself from the silly Russia investigation and draw the 'orange fascist's' ire. The point being that Trump gets a lot of credit for signing off on things that other monsters put in front of him, but I'd still rather have an idiot who makes it blatantly obvious what criminality the politicians are engaging in than one of those very monster's who's engaging in said criminality while pulling a veil over it with a smile and a speech on how much they're doing to better my life and others around the world. At the very least Trump gets people out in the streets, which hopefully means the population is getting more politically active and ready to rise up against the elites that are oppressing and murdering the working class across the world.

[@samsonsapuro8373]

Best one I've seen so far🇰🇪

[@omarsiddiqui9224]

Kehinde is fantastic and always insightful.

[@softcat2004]

Really great show, best one for ages, hope you get Kehinde on again

[@janetbain-littlefair2165]

Great interview, many thanks.

[@NF-xy6br]

I learn so much every time i hear Kehinde chat

[@MrHousey36]

Just a brilliant discussion. Thank you.

[@jessicamai7783]

So funny...I was just saying to my bf that the new Political correct term is ‘people of color’ & ‘black & brown people, Right before that was ‘African America’ (no matter of the heritage behind it). My grandparents generator was ‘colored people’ which has been totally TOTALLY OFFENSE since that generation, but it looks like a full circle coming back to ‘people of color.’ And I lived in Kenya for a year. They look at the British as their oppressors, full stop! The British left ‘their’ area to the kikuyu (the light tribe) where the land is better for farming. I forget the name you guys called it- white something. The Lou tribe are usually dark & live in a hot / dry area. The stereotypes of Lou is so similar to black Americans. You can see the ‘conquer & divide’ has simple stereotypes ingrained. Jessica (Italian America with a multi cultural household). Great conversation!

[@radicalprolapse9807]

Holy shit novara is banging out the quality content

[@veganinvasion7701]

Genius. At several points in this interview I felt my brain actually explode and grow...and I thought I was reasonably switched on to these issues. Thank you both.

[@93thelema777]

I felt my brain explode after five minutes and grow a tumor that I've started treating with sumatryptan . And I thought I was reasonable well versed in mental health!!

[@lookinforhumanz7640]

Nothing better than a communists and a black supremacist conversing to make your blain explode.

[@lookinforhumanz7640]

@Dead Pool these people want whites to embrace a white identity so bad

[@jagpreetbhullar9988]

Great guest. Great questions. Absolutely loved it. Regarding bame representation in politics, Obama hasn't done anything to combat racial inequality. Neither has Prity Patel or Sajid Javid. If anything they're making it worse. Would love to see Asad Rehman on here as he's focused far more on climate justice.

[@IshtarNike]

Among the younger generation political blackness has been almost completely erased. People don't know what it means and assumes it's erasing other groups.

[@account1307]

This is interesting, can you further explain this? :)

[@breaks0]

Aaron: Thanks for doing this ep! I would suggest you consider talking to Michael E. Sawyer from Colorado College at some point about his recent book "Black Minded: The Philosophy of Malcolm X" (2020, Pluto). I haven't read the book yet, but he was great on the "Always Already" podcast and has also been on others.

[@GeorgeGeorgeOnly]

I would agree with Kehinde that the British and Americans are very compatible, although sharing the same language surely helps, and I wouldn't disagree that our histories are profoundly linked. But, beyond our histories, I do not agree that the UK and the USA compare closely.

[@janguvpes7518]

Brilliant interview with Andrews. Would love to see him on NM more! Would also enjoy a longer debate on the notions of BAME, political blackness, PoC... Particularly, I thought Andrews's points diverged into two paths. The critical is that those groupings encourage a form of tokenistic representation in politics, which doesn't produce good structural outcomes, and glosses over important differences of struggle. The positive, however, is that these phrases have been used to unify around. So I would want to know what rhetorical tools are available for people of different minority ethnic backgrounds to unify around if not such labels. For one thing to me is apparent here: Andrews said people unify around the _issues_ (I agree), but historically doing so sometimes involves a unifying identity. In 21st C Britain, what is the better alternative?

[@janguvpes7518]

@J S This is such a disingenuous mis-reading.

[@Bosi1995]

radical or not, Martin Luther King got things done. That is what is important.

[@indridcole7596]

What did he get done. He was not a politician

[@doshpits]

lol what did he get done?

[@cloud9ine348]

I adore the Beyonce critique. Her superbowl performance reduced to "not the worst thing in the world".

[@hughjorgen3164]

12:17. What does he mean by "racial justice"?

[@blitva1]

Fixing the problems left over from slavery like institutionalised racism, socio-economic disparity, racial profiling, erased and or ignored history, etc i suppose the fist step would be recognising that these injustices exist

[@wearemany73]

Violence, clearly.

[@wearemany73]

@@blitva1 they exist only in the minds of race grifters like Kehinde and those who find solace in the notion of their failings and normal day to day struggles being the fault of an entire race of people.

[@hughjorgen3164]

@@blitva1 All slavery or just some?

[@rogertxi]

Thank you to you both for a very educational discussion. I will look up The Holocaust of Modernity.

[@Abcdefqwerty849]

I wish I had the mental fortitude to put up with an hour of this crap. Can’t believe it’s this easy to become a professor these days

[@lamueldagon7618]

Who's de Professor?

[@cheikantadiop]

Thought provokingly interesting it inspires (a mother of) -: South Africa, how do you explain its anti (African-ness ) ; -from -- the actions it took, for Israel's crime of genocide, on the Palestinian population ❓

[@paulw1798]

“Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, while other people are not held responsible for what they themselves are doing today?” -Thomas Sowell.

[@karentompkins9348]

What on Earth are they talking about....I can't even follow it....Kehinde looks and appears bored stiff...I am now so bored listening to inane chatter about how it's not criminal to pull down a statue...bye

[@radicalprolapse9807]

Maybe instead of looking at appearances and listening to the tone of voice, actually listen to what's being said, you may learn something...

[@jangomoonstomp]

You look a lot like a koala bear.

[@hazelwray5307]

"Bye, Bye"

[@arcarsenal1380]

You live up to your name Karen

[@DarrenBurgess1989]

Wow you really are a Karen