What is Hell? J.I. Packer

[@BornAgain490]

See you in heaven, Brother J. I. Packer. 💖

[@carsonholton3566]

He was a saint of God

[@globescape4771]

J.I. Packer: The Quintessential "Gentle"man. I am honored to have met him. If I can be (God allows me to be) at least 0.000000001 as him, I will be the most blessed.

[@rofyle]

"Knowing God" and "God's Words" - two books every Christian should read.

[@mytuber81]

Short but very profound commentary

[@curriegc]

I just wanted to say one more thing as it has been heavy on my heart, and that is that I hope you are not hopeing for your eternal salvation on the fact that God will just save everyone no matter what. Or if you dont care and just want to live anyway you want and have no fear of hell, just eternally gone and dead. That is dangerous ground. I know God is love, but he is also just and Holy and so sin must be dealt with.

[@DisturbedYetHappy]

This man talks alot of sense

[@soundidesign9653]

I wish he quoted scripture and verse for his assumption of Hell. God rest his soul

[@obviouslyso]

At a certain point in our lives we need to stop for a moment and ask ourselves just how much we KNOW of God and not how much we BELIEVE, much less how much we believe in what the bible says of Him. Sure we can catch glimpses of God's actions in our lives and some may even feel His presence. But the question remains, how much do we KNOW? I guess the question is - why does God (who loves us so much) require us to believe in Him when He could just show Himself and end the speculations?

[@Ajsirb24]

I recommend the liberating doctrine of universal salvation. It truly is the best balance of God's mercy, justice, grace, and love.

[@curriegc]

will end up in one of 2 places. Daniel 12:2 those asleep will awake some to everlasting llfe others to everlasting contempt. Heb. 9:27 die once then face judgement. John 3:36 ...the one who rejects the son ...God's wrath remains upon him. If the unsaved just die, then why are they raised up after death to face judgement. Rev20:13-15. There are pages on this but I hope this extremly abr. version helps.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

The are sentenced to death. It's called the Second death or metaphorically "the lake of fire" which Jesus called "Gehenna".

[@Icannottolerateit]

@Thoughtland Who are you to say if you have done that baby or anyone else a favor? You just see the short term effects, and rarely do you even begin to see your true motivations. Motivations are not readily apparent to us...and they are usually far worse than we imagine them to be.

[@kjvwolfslayer]

It's crazy how some people reject the biblical teachings on Hell being a place of eternal torment, a place where the worm lives on and the fire is never quenched, a place where there is no rest day or night, forever and ever. It's a bottomless pit and a place of outer darkness. They completely deny that Jesus stressed the doctrine of Hell and warned the people more about this place of torment than He spoke about the joys of Heaven.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

You are mixing different Greek words and passages together unfortunately. Outer darkness and lake of fire are both symbolic. You don't have darkness with fire so they can't be literal. It is not a place of eternal torment. Hades/Sheol is the temporary intermediate state. They are thrown into the lake of fire, which is symbolic of "the second death". It says so twice in Rev 20 and 21. Rev 14 doesn't say they have no rest day or night forever and ever, it says the smoke of their torment ascends forever which is quoting Isaiah 34 and the "Destruction" of Edom. Context is key. It also only refers to those who take the mark of the beast in the Millenium.

[@EricBaxter-f2k]

I’m not into dispensational theology ‘ although I like your answers 😊

[@curriegc]

Actually I am not the one that sounds foolish. If there is no hell then why did Christ pay for our sins with the most humiliating and painful death ever. God is a God of love, but He is not a fair God, He is a just God and sin must be paid for. Hell is clearly bibical.

[@obviouslyso]

@ashjesusfollower11 Fear? Indifference? If you intend on saving people, would you not rather have them believe out of fear than condemn them to everlasting punishment? What possible use can hiding yourself be if you'll punish people who didn't believe you were present because you refused to show yourself? How can you claim you love such people? If He showed Himself, it'll solve one thing. Anyone who chooses to turn his back despite the fact that He has identified Himself can get punished...

[@tonyarmour2108]

"He's not 25 anymore" you say. That makes me think of the young Billy graham; the graham who didn't water down the gospel, the graham who preached repentance. But now look at graham; he's an old man now and has said that muslims will be included into the kingdom. He's basically a universalist now. Believing that people will be saved who don't even know the name of Christ. My point is, it doesn't matter what they use to preach, what matters is what they think at the present.

[@elizabethosborne3606]

Or rather finishing strong.

[@lostson7122]

This is my old account and I was a young 22 year old who had just become a christian when I made this comment. I wish I could get back into this account to delete this comment because it embarrasses me now. I was saved for not even a year when I made this comment and yet I saw fit to criticize a man like J.I. Packer for not speaking of hell how I thought it should be spoken of at the time. This comment was divisive and stupid and I repent of it. Praise God for his faithfulness to me 12 years later! God bless you all!

[@reynaldbell]

Maybe we should listen to this guy. He is probably close enough to hell to see it , and feel the flames.

[@EricBaxter-f2k]

Why would you say that” he died believing in the Lord Jesus Christ ‘ what’s your hope for salvation?

[@grantkruger3689]

John MacArthur spoke a tribute to Mr. Packer after he died, from the pulpit of GCC no less. He spoke about how Mr. Packer's book, "Knowing God," was a powerful influence for him, and Christians everywhere. There are two chapters in Knowing God, one about God as Judge, and the other about the wrath of God. Perhaps find out something about someone before you take it on yourself to sit in the place of God in judgment over them.

[@Icannottolerateit]

Hell for some is going to be as "minor" as a pinch. Yet an eternal pinch that cannot be comforted is much worse than a sudden and extreme torment. The false prophet is going to be the most extreme case of suffering, and it is not something we can put into thought.

[@curriegc]

Ok, I want ot respond, but on my phone in the hospital, it will be tough. I have mult. med problms from a broken back. Ill get back to you as soon as out. hope u understand. doc says about 5 days

[@CplFerro]

It is tragic when Muslims leave this world without Christ...

[@Thoughtland]

I tickled a baby boy's foot an hour ago and he laughed. If he died tonight would he go to Hell? Would I go there if I died tonight because of all the things I've done in my lifetime but I spent time helping a baby enjoy life? I really don't believe this guy or anybody else has got the ansewers.

[@jgtheman84]

@Chiangmai007 he knows very well. heaven and hell are so real.

[@SwordofManticorE]

I only have this to say to you. A man will believe in what he wants to believe and disregards the rest. I am now free from the fear of hell thank God. I only hope you will eventually.

[@askcoacheric]

Do you believe that?

[@obviouslyso]

@ashjesusfollower11 I laughed at the last part. When did we switch subject matter from God to Jesus? Are they the same now?? If I may say, believing that Jesus died, resurrected and repenting of your sins and making Jesus your master does not mean one has to love him. One can do all that and still fear and/or hate Jesus. If God or/and Jesus showed up now, there'll be no doubt they do exist. There'll still be choice to turn from them or accept them. But at least they SHOWED you they cared by it.

[@atzengruber]

@CanadaCraig So what you are saying is that every time the Bible mentions "eternal" or "forever and ever" when refering to Hell (Matt.25:46,2.Thess.1:9,Jude 7,12-13,Rev. 20:10) it doesn't really mean time without end ? And when Jesus said in Matt. 25:46:"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life", he didn't really mean forever? If that is so, then you'd better readdress your "wake up-call" a bit closer to homebase and realize whom you reverbarate !

[@curriegc]

It is not only biblical, but if there is no hell, then there is no heaven. How do you come to the fact that there is no hell?

[@curriegc]

Have you ever listened yourself to John Macarther? I don't understand how you can say that at all, and I have listened to hundreds of his sermons. Give me an example because if he was offensive and irretating then you must be able to tell me why.

[@SwordofManticorE]

If God so loved the world, why would He create such a place? The only warning Christ gave the Jews, was the warning of the fires of Gehenna, not hell. Meaning the wrath of God to come on Judea 70AD. No where will you find in Pauls letters of him warning the gentiles of Gehenna. Because the warnings from Christ was meant only for the Jews and no one else. Our Abba comandes us to love, bless, and forgive our enemies unconditionally. So is it safe to say He will do the same to His!

[@Theranchhouse1]

Obviously, you do not believe God is sovereign or you would not ask... If God...If God...HE IS GOD and there is NO other....His ways are NOT our ways...You are trying to make the God 'you' want him to be...' line up with what YOU want......but we have to line up with Gods word even if we don't understand or agree...That's is obedience and faith...

[@rammerjammer48]

I'll give you that J.I. is a tad weak on his interview skills. He's not 25 anymore. But if you haven't had the privilege of reading his work, he is miles beyond JM. And that's hard for me to say since I'm a huge MacArthur fan.

[@veggiemite777]

@dusty4007 Not that I see it as my place to say so, but you have no idea who you are talking to. J.I. Packer is one of the foremost theologians/scholars of the western world and holds a fellowship at Regent Theological Seminary. Further, as to the question of whether he got it out of a book- having researched the subject thoroughly(holding the credentials to prove this), he has WRITTEN a number of books on various subjects. Again, I reiterate the fact that it is not my place to defend him.

[@SwordofManticorE]

All sins John 1:29, 1 Tim 4:10, 1 John 2:2, 1 John, 4:14. As for reconciliation of all, it is found in 2 Cor 5:11-21.

[@curriegc]

Show me where in scripture you find this. Jesus paid for all sins yes, but only all of the sins of those that ask Jesus for forgiveness and give there lives to Him and ask Him to come into there heart. Where does Paul state that all will be reconcilled with God.

[@tonyarmour2108]

I'm not saying that J.I. Packer is a heretic (unlike B.G. who certainly is) but John Macarthur has never wavered or compromised the gospel. Even on secular shows where he was the odd one out and the pressure was on him, and I have an extreme respect of him for that. Surely J.I. Packer know's what Christ said about Hell, so why is he not telling the whole truth?

[@drewgodlife9054]

The Bible says that "death and hell" will be thrown into the lake burning with fire. I haven't done an exhaustive study on the differences of the two. But he does not seem to even bring that up. Isn't MacArthur the one who said that you can still be saved if you take the mark? (or am I mistaking him for someone else?)

[@grantkruger3689]

I understand your concern. But what J.I. Packer said about Hell is not wrong: no hope of joy or relief ever again, so awful its difficult to describe, and every person who dies with that as their eternal destiny is a tragedy. J.I. Packer wrote a whole chapter on both God as Judge and the Wrath of God in his book Knowing God. RC Sproul endorsed that book. John MacArthur did too when he gave a tribute for J.I. Packer after he died, recommending his books, and speaking about how he had been blessed by Packer's ministry.

[@alyssafaithbaer]

This was hard to hear... whatthehellbook . com

[@curriegc]

Ok then....

[@SwordofManticorE]

The wag of sin is death, not eternal torture. He paid for all sins and freed us from our sleep in the grave. The reality of hell is secretly found in the desires of the hearts of hell believing Christians. Nothing more. You follow another gospel than the one Paul brought us. He brought us the Gospel of reconciliation of all with God. You follow teachings of men who interpret bibles written by men who translate from another language written by men who never lived as Christians with the apostles.

[@SwordofManticorE]

Yes I do.

[@curriegc]

Well, Hell is real and my doctrine is the doctrine that Jesus taught and that the Bible clearly teaches. I would pray about it if I was you and seek Gods word for yourself. The doctrin of hell is real. No where does it say that all will believe. Every knee shall bow yes, but those that reject Jesus will be cast into hell. The Bible says that exactly. If you are right, then I can live any way I want and I will still be saved no matter what and that is wrong and that will send people to hell

[@kokoro.theheart]

Maybe I'll never find God

[@SwordofManticorE]

Well I hope you recover soon.

[@doctrinalwatchdog6268]

Barely understand what he's saying

[@grantkruger3689]

He's saying hell is awful beyond words, no more possibility of joy or hope after being sent there, that's why its a tragedy whenever someone dies without faith in Jesus Christ.

[@SwordofManticorE]

I find it offensive because the doctrine of hell is unbiblical, it makes my Father a failure, a hypocrite and a monster. This belief of hell does not gloryfy our Father's love, forgiveness or mercy.

[@atzengruber]

@CanadaCraig 1.The suffering of hell is beyond any experience of misery found in this world.2.Hell is clearly included in the teaching of Jesus.3.There is no cruelty in hell. Hell will be a place of perfect justice.6.Hell is eternal. There is no escape through either repentance or annihilation.Biblical passages for reflection: Matthew 8:11-12, Mark 9:42-48, Luke 16:19-31, Jude 1:3-13,Revelation 20:11-15. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[@crxpunkb16]

this guy doesn't make all that much sense really. i dont know who he is but wouldn't it be easier to just say hell is at death being rejected by God in a place of weeping and nashing of teeth? the place God made for Satan but will send humans if disobedient? Isn't this hell and not so much merely the negation of being happy? It sounds to much like humanism to me... I think this man has missed the target.

[@curriegc]

I'll try to be brief, universal reconciliation AKA universal atonement yes. Jesus said it is finished. All sins were paid for on the cross, except one. Those that reject the Holy Spirit, refect what Jesus did, that is the one sin that is'nt forgiven. Matt. 12:31,32 plus many more. No man will go into hell for his sins but because he refused to accept the finished work of calvary.Romans 10:8,9 plus more. But hell is real and eternal. The Bible states that man.... see my reply to this

[@tonyarmour2108]

This is weak. If you want a real answer check out John macarthur's video on hell.

[@curriegc]

That is so not what the Bible teaches. What you are saying is a false gospel and you are misinterpreting what Paul is saying or someone has taught you wrongly. Jesus taught about hell with the rich man and at the end of the tribulation the sheep and the goats are seperated and the goats are cast into the lake of fire. And what about the great white throne judgement what then is the purpose of that since we as Christians are not part of that judgement.

[@SwordofManticorE]

Do you know how foolish that sounds? Hell is only biblical to the carnal mind. Paul taught us all what God wants us to know, yet never in his letters did he warn the gentiles about Gehenna fire, let alone a place called hell. Christ on the other hand warned the Jews of Judea as well as John the baptist of the coming wrath of God on Judea, and it came AD70 as prophesized. The opposite of the spiritual real of God is not hell, it is the physical world of the flesh.

[@SwordofManticorE]

If God would of wanted us to know about a place called hell, Paul would of taught the gentiles, there is no way you can convince me otherwise. As for Jude 1:7, get a more accurate translation and learn what he meant when he said " eonian fire", not eternal fire. This is where you get your viscious vile doctrin of eternal torture.

[@SwordofManticorE]

If you combine a carnal view to scripture with fear, blind ego, self-righteous pride, a hidden desire for vengeance and spark the religious engine with a pharisaical spirit. You get a determined believer of hell. A spiritual terrorist. To suppose that God would bring beings into existence for both His purpose and pleasure who He knew in advance without mercy would be infinite losers by that existence, is to charge him a hypocrite with the utmost malignity. You read scripture the way you are.

[@SwordofManticorE]

Ah, the unforgivin sin. No one rejects the holy spirit, because it is God who chooses us, we dont choose Him. The blessings of salvation start by believing in Him and eventually all will believe in Christ, but as long as you shove hell down the unbelievers throats with your turn or burn doctrine, they will not believe. Your doctrine of hell is useless and serves no purpose for a God who is perfect love. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

[@nicholasharris1571]

Jesus was a young man with all the unkindnesses and fanaticism of young men. That is not surprising. What is surprising to me is that a person of Packer's age should not have outgrown such young men's notions.

[@fallenslave6684]

Jesus is not a sinner. All what he told is Perfect. Your comment is a lie. Deceiver!

[@SwordofManticorE]

First of all, God's Word is Christ (John 1), not scripture. Secondly, if hell is the absence of God, then explain this...Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.(KJV) As Christ was angry with the money collectors in the temple, It angers me when those who have a zeal for God make my Father a hypocritical tyrant of a monster, because the have not the knowledge(Rom 10:1-3).

[@SwordofManticorE]

I personnaly find John's sermons offensive and irretating.

[@SwordofManticorE]

You are that natural person. A true lover of God and mankind would out of curiosity of love, would of at least asked me how I have come to my understanding, but you hell wishers clothed in self-righteousness, show your real colour by defending this vile belief. You have very little love for your neighbor and that is why you believe in what you believe.