What is Messianic Judaism?

[@paradigmmedia]

Yes, strange that more Jews find atheism less disqualifying in the survey than Jews who believe upon Yeshua/Jesus. Overall an informative video. Thanks.

[@Philoglossos]

It's considered far worse to believe in false gods than to not believe in any.

[@mr.starfish4965]

@@Philoglossos But why is it considered far worse? I understand why Religious Jews would consider the Messianic Jews not Jewish in the religious sense. Christ is God to Messianic Jews, and since Christ isn’t God to religious Jews, it is perceived that Messianic Jews worship a different God. But how is worshipping a false god, whether one of the lower gods such as the Greek deities, or a higher God like Islam’s Allah or Christianity’s LORD, worse than worshipping no god?

[@Philoglossos]

@@mr.starfish4965 My understanding is that idol worship directly violates the 10 commandments. Lacking a belief in any god doesn't. Edit: But Jews don't consider the god of Islam or Christianity to be a separate god from the Jewish god. The problem with Christianity for Jews is the trinity and the worship of Christ. Islam on the other hand is viewed as largely compatible with Judaism - many religious Jews will be happy to pray in a mosque, for instance, but never in a church. Keep in mind that 'allah' isn't a name, it's just the Arabic word for 'god'. Both Jews and Christians who speak Arabic would use the word 'allah'.

[@conovan5081]

@@Philoglossos IMO the real issue is that they keep using ambiguity, when they accept atheists as jews, they are looking through the ethnic lenses, but when an ethnic jew accepts Christ, then their definition shifts to jews being part of the jewish religion, so they can't be accepted.

[@Philoglossos]

@@conovan5081 No, that's not correct. Once again, there's a big difference between a Jew who doesn't practice and a Jew who has betrayed god by worshipping an idol. It's not that atheist jews are being viewed just from an ethnic lens - their Jewish status is still viewed as being determined by halakha.

[@graemesilb]

I'm Jewish and feel like this is a very fair representation of Messianic Judaism. I'm not Messianic myself, but I do generally consider people who are born Jewish who become Messianic Jews to still be Jews, though I realize I am an in the minority. I probably wouldn't consider Gentiles who convert to Messianic Judaism to be Jews, and I am on the fence about Gentiles who convert to non-Messianic Judaism then become Messianic Jews later. A lot of the nuance here for me has to do with the fact that Judaism is not just a religion but also an ethnicity, so conversion can be a bit wonky. Also, I really enjoy this channel in general despite not being a Christian, keep up the good work.

[@moonlitdesert]

My mum's family (Jews) have been in England since the Jews were allowed back by Oliver Cromwell. Dad's family came from little villages in Russia and Poland in the mid 18OO's. I went to an ultra orthodox Jewish school, spoke Classical Hebrew, studied Rashi. However, I'm as old as dirt and can never remember having any religious belief at all. To most secular Jews, it's an ethnicity - on British Censuses it will require your "ethnicity" - which I happily give as Jewish. People can believe or disbelieve what they want, have opinions as they want. I don't think Jews who were atheists stopped Hitler from slaughtering them, or being mentioned as being "Jewish" by any media. But then I'm an old cynic - and as long as they're happy, the Messianic Jews can call themselves what they want. But they're not Jews. Then I don't go around thinking about religion all day. Bye now, be well, safe and happy. xx

[@rachelorlando6296]

While it is true that "being Jewish" has an important ethnic and cultural aspect, the heart of Judaism is belief in the Jewish G-d. Lacking that is lacking in being Jewish, regardless of how you consider yourself. Being Jewish is a matter of Jewish law, not personal conviction or convenience. It is very different from Christianity, where someone can be Christian just be saying they believe or considering themselves to be one. I know this sounds snobbish, but Jews have a long history of backsliding into other religions (the whole story of Chanukah), so it's a sore point for others to claim one can be Jewish and practice non-Jewish religion.

[@jacobburton7613]

I was always under the impression that one's family isn't considered Jewish until 3 generations have been taught Torah and raised within the community. is this wrong, or just a very orthodox view?

[@AleaRandomAm]

​@@moonlitdesert By the same standard Ashkenazis aren't Jews since they descend from Eastern European converts.

[@axaeyexus]

​@@AleaRandomAm they're still Jews. Being if mixed background doesn't erase their west Asian origination.

[@Marbo12f]

An excellent neutral take Messianic Judaism. Finding themselves disliked on both sides, its difficult to find an unbiased source of information.

[@faturechi]

This was not a neutral take. Even the Jews he cited were cited from Christian sources. A neutral take would have included Jewish views as well. The questions in the comments show exactly what a poor job he did.

[@sorenpx]

@faturechi I would think that you would want Messianic Jews to speak for themselves rather than outsiders speaking for them. What do you expect non-Christian Jews to say about them that will better inform you about what Messianic Jews believe?

[@faturechi]

@@sorenpx The truth. Do you do an "unbiased" report on Scientology by only quoting them? Any other deceptive cult?

[@sorenpx]

@@faturechi Maybe you don't understand what this channel is. Have you watched any of the videos before? It's a self-described denominational video encyclopedia. It's a just-the-facts presentation on what the individual denominations believe and other such facts about the denominations. If you want to know what a Methodist believes, do you ask a Muslim?

[@sola.gratia]

@@faturechi Shalom brother, I may be half a year late but I just wanted to clarify that Ready to Harvest is a protestant and isn't arguing against Messianic Jews, we actually love our Messianic Jewish brothers. He was just showing both the sides. On one are the jews that claim that Messianic Jews are not true jews and on the other are the Messianic Jews that do see themselves as jews that profess belief in Messiah. Ready to Harvest was only citing both the sides by quoting them, he wasn't being biased or side taking here, simply reading what the rabbinic jews were saying and what Messianic Jews said of themselves. Shalom :)

[@Doigt101]

As always, I am so impressed by the thoroughness with which these topics are covered and the matter-of-fact, non-judgmental delivery of our RTH host.

[@justonetime6179]

So Jews are more likely to accept atheistic Jews as Jewish, even though they believe in no God…. but would reject messianic Jews as Jewish because they believe Jesus is the messiah. Weird!

[@SunshineMcNair]

I thought the same thing.

[@christinacody5845]

Not exactly. It's the difference between cultural and religious Judaism. A cultural Jew follows limits on cloth and food that historically may have had public health influences. A Religious Jew merely follows things that don't believe Jesus is Messiah. It sounds like the religious limit of Jesus is the Messiah and not merely a prophet (just like John the Baptist, Moses, Elijah, etc.)

[@justonetime6179]

@@christinacody5845 but wouldn’t messianic Jews be like cultural Jews though?

[@christinacody5845]

@@justonetime6179 Not exactly. A cultural Jew may not believe in a higher power, just the history of the people portrayed in the OT. A Messianic almost definitely does.

[@aylacraig1815]

because believing in G.d is not a requirement but believing in jesus as the messiah is antithetical to judaism

[@Vissaius]

My dad was into Messianic Judaism and I was into it when I was younger but gradually fell away from it and religion altogether. My mom is a Protestant Christian so my dad and my mom had a lot of theological disagreements. I went to various Messianic Congregations as a kid and even a Messianic Jewish cult. I also went to a Messianic Southern Baptist church for a while. Like ready to Harvest Said the movement is still forming it's own identity. Numbers are hard to keep track of and everything but it's somewhere around 200,000 to 400,000 but again it's hard to know. From my experience with going to different Messianic Jewish groups I can tell you there are general trends but they do vary quite a bit for such a small movement. Some of them are very adamant about following Jewish Laws. For example the hardcore Messianic Jews believe that men must have beards and that people should never eat unclean food and must keep the Sabbath. The more hardcore Messianics usually emphasize practicing the Jewish Holy Days as apposed to Christian Holidays which are seen as Pagan. They argue that Christmas and Easter are based on Pagan traditions and to avoid them and instead practice Jewish Holy Days such as Hanukkah and Passover. Messianic Jews are heavily influenced by Evangelicals Christianity (Critics say they are simply Evangelicals "larping" as Jews." Like Evangelicals most Messianic Jews tend to be politically and culturally very very very. They are almost universally against abortion, gay marriage, support gun rights, and other conservative positions. From what I have seen though there are more moderate members of the movement. The Messianic Southern Baptist church I went to celebrated BOTH Christmas and Hanukkah. Some Messianic Jews appropriate more Jewish customs than others. Most Messianic Jews I've known generally don't go for rabbinic Judaism. They tend to follow strictly what the Bible says as much as possible. They take sola scriptura more extreme than a lot of Protestants do even. Messianic Jews universally support the State of Israel. They are more hardcore in their support of Israel than mainstream Jews are actually. Many of them even support Greater Israel where they believe Israel shall eventually take more land and build an even greater nation. Messianic Jews tend to get a lot of hate from both Jews and Christians and others. Jews say they are Christian and Christians say they are Jews. I'd definitely say they are more in line with Evangelicals Protestant Christianity than mainstream Judaism but they are too different to be considered Christian either. They are sort of in a weird area like Latter Day Saints (Mormons) and Jehovah's' Witnesses where they do share commonalities with mainstream Christianity but Mainstream Christians seem to have mixed views of them. Messianic Jews views on Christians can vary. From what I saw they get along with Evangelicals Christians best. They generally think Evangelicals Christians are pretty good and some Messianic Jews like my dad even went to an Evangelicals Church. I'd say the closest Christian Denomination to them would probably be either Southern Baptist or Pentecostal. They tend to be more more ambivalent towards the more liberal protestants such as Methodists and Lutherans. Most Messianic are NOT fond of the Catholic Church and many consider the Catholic Church to be at best a heavily distorted Church and at worst a bunch of covert Satanists. Hardcore Messianic would almost prefer someone to be an outright Pagan than Catholic because in their eyes at least an outright Pagan is honest about it. This is mostly what I witnessed in the Messianic Congregations I went to as a kid. In my honest opinion they are generally pretty extreme in their views. Even a lot of hardcore Evangelicals Christians think Messianic Jews take it too far and I am inclined to agree. I was in a Messianic Cult for several years with my dad and it was really extreme. I was part of this group called "Cradle of Hope Ministries ran by a self proclaimed Prophet named Tom Deckerd. His cult combined stuff from Messianic Judaism as well as JWs, Holiness Pentecostalism, and other fundamentalist denominations. He always spoke of economic collapse and upcoming nuclear was and such. I left the cult at 13 and my dad left a few years later. After that my dad still believed in Messianic teachings but he toned down on things more over the years and later on went to a mainstream Evangelicals Church with my mom and even got Baptized there. Even after saying all this it's still hard to explain the movement. It's a very interesting movement that takes different beliefs from different Christian groups as well as stuff from Judaism. Degrees of orthodoxy vary widely amongst members. There are general trends in the movement but things vary from congregation to congregation and even on an individual basis. Some see Jewish laws as absolute rules that must be followed and some more as general guidelines. Many of it's members are conservative if not ultra conservative but there are some more moderate members that have views closer to mainstream Christianity. Honestly I've never met a single liberal or left leaning Messianic Jew. I'm curious to see how things develop in the movement as time goes on. I'm no longer part of the movement but I learned a lot about Christianity and Judaism from being in it. What I have to say is not vindictive of all in the movement and like I said the views vary widely in the movement. If you're interested in anything else about Messianic Judaism feel free to ask.

[@susangopher]

@Vissaius: thank you for taking the time to give your perspective. I had friends that chose to do house worship of the festivals and Passover which was an enriching experience because I wanted to understand Jewish practices of worship as well as the culture. But then my friends chose to leave their Christian fellowships in search of others with similar beliefs. Looking from the outside, I was concerned that they were finding cult-like groups and then eschewing any other christian fellowships. While I agree with Paul that you shouldn't place yourself back under the (Torah) Law, I absolutely cannot agree with the Liberal theologies of mainline protestant- that there are no rules at all and that today every human has been granted salvation because of Jesus's crucifixion. There seems to be no repentance anymore in the modern-day mainlines. The Gospels have been picked over so thoroughly that there is no original or other sin. But then I Rant! Sorry...

[@Bv3276]

I am a Messianic Jew but do not agree with the totality of your comment. However, I know that’s your experience growing up. So I’ll refrain from saying anything further. I’m very sorry that your Dad introduced you to a cult. It seems like your Dad was very divided in his walk with God, hence the falling away and it spilled out into your experience.

[@Vissaius]

@@Bv3276 I understand if you don't agree. Like I said several times in my comments the Messianic Jews are a very broad movement with no central governing figure (e.g. The Pope) so it's a bit hard to define the movement. I'm still friends with some Messianic Jews who are great people.

[@broz1488]

Thank you for your comment, I found it very interesting and informative. Not sure if you have heard of the Ebonites, they were a Messianic group that lasted from the 1st century until they disappeared in the 5th century. Their name is probably the Hebrew for rock - evan, upon this rock/evan I will build My Church. So should probably be pronounced Evanites or Evonites. Anyway, they taught that Jesus believers with Jewish roots had to keep the law of Moses, as Jesus had not freed Jews and their descendants from their obligation to obey Torah laws. They are the judaisers that Paul talks about. When the Visigoths sacked Rome, they demand gold, silver and slave tribute, the slave tribute was that one in twenty Roman citizens had to return with the Visigoths to southern Germany as slaves. The Romans rounded up all Jews including the Ebonites, non Roman citizens and undesirables to form the slave tribute, resulting in the extinction of the Ebonite community. This is how Jews ended up in southern Germany and why Yiddish is a fifth century Gothic Germanic tongue mixed with Hebrew.

[@broz1488]

@rejipaul2185 very well said, I agree with what you wrote. People are too busy splitting hairs over what we call each other, instead of recognizing the true Saint as one who walks with God in obedience to the will of God. Too many false saints hide behind an identity, claiming to be true Saints because of the identity they hold to, and not because of their walk in obedience to Scripture.

[@sheo3811]

There's a lack of information about Messianic Judaism on KZbin, so I'm glad you've made this video. I was given a pamphlet by a "Jews for Jesus" representative at my university when I was visiting over the summer. As someone who comes from a Protestant Christian background I became very interested in their movement,.

[@dexterd4156]

kzbin.info

[@raynitaylor1912]

There's a lot of different theological differences between the individual groups over just about everything but centrally they all believe that Torah is still relevant today as it was long ago.

[@jonathansoko1085]

I have to disagree, the messianic judaism and all of its off shoots have a GIANT presence on youtube

[@dsheppard8492]

Protestant Christian background,,, that sounds like an expression coming from one who is lukewarm at best. This type are ripe for seducing into their clutches. They are the woman of Proverbs 7. Don't go in there!!!

[@ben8557]

Unfortunately, a lot of those groups use modern Jewish practice which makes no sense if you desire to go back to Jesus' time. Jesus' seder probably looked very different from modern seders. Rabbinic Judaism and Christianity both developed out of Isrealite/Judean religion. Smashing both traditions together doesn't make it any more authentic to what was practiced back then. Sincerely a Reform Jew

[@siwardwoudstra1751]

"Contextualizing our faith in cultural forms is good; making this contextualization the standard for all cultures represents a fatal misunderstanding of the Gospel" This message needs to be heard in the many others contexts it is relevant in.

[@wesfortney5294]

Most notably the medical billing industry, I mean does anyone still call it healthcare...

[@twenty-fifth420]

As an agnostic, these are my favorite new obsession. I just love researching and learning the theological metaphysics and/or community and spiritual traditions, beliefs and practices. Please do not stop ever making these ‘neutral’ videos, you are doing god’s work as far as I can tell.

[@sorenpx]

Ah, but have you considered believing in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus?

[@jacobnestle3805]

>agnostic >God's work hmm

[@twenty-fifth420]

@@jacobnestle3805 Dont take this too seriously memer lol. It is clear hyperbole.

[@HesderOleh]

This really wasn't neutral, it didn't really explain the full reason why Jews do not consider them Jewish or give the history of the movement from the 1960s.

[@twenty-fifth420]

@@HesderOleh This is also a reference to another video from Ready to Harvest that claims he himself claims because it is a neutral viewpoint due to the nature of the world; that it must be accepted as generally wrong. Nothing to do with the content of the video tbh.

[@Salisbury2015]

I deeply appreciate how hard this channel works to provide an unbiased perspective of different denominations and beliefs within Christianity. Allowing them to speak in their own voice sets this channel apart from others that seem to be more intent on proving why other (often minority) viewpoints are wrong. Thank you for an informative video! I learned a lot.

[@fallinginthed33p]

I respect the way he looks at other Abrahamic religions like Islam and Judaism and considers all their differences and similarities. Peace comes from accepting differences.

[@DanialADisciple]

Are you gonna have peace when you send people to hell for not telling them the truth? John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.@@fallinginthed33p

[@DanialADisciple]

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

[@bootmender]

I am like a stray dog that shows up on your porch. I was told My grandfather’s grandfather was a Lithuanian Jew that came to America in the mid 1800’s ? Then my Mother was a runaway mennonite teenager and put in Foster care with my fathers aunt? My father just back from WW2 met my mother and we’re married in the late 40’s. They brought me up in a missionary Baptist Church, but as a teenager I found fault in there doctrine. Then when I got married to a Southern Baptist I became one. I made a profession of faith at 12 and was later call into the Ministry then ordained in 1970 but went to Dallas theological seminary then on to LSU for a PHD in psychology. I now attend a small mennonite/Baptist church where our mission is to help in disaster relief and to share the Saving grace of Jesus Christ.

[@ronashman8463]

Now that is an interesting life!

[@lukesalazar9283]

God Bless!

[@ronashman8463]

Oh how much work you put into these videos young man. Greatly appreciated thank you.

[@stoopidpants]

It's lies of omission and bullcrap. More than happy to explain from the perspective of someone raised Orthodox Jewish.

[@decem_sagittae]

God bless you sir

[@liacrow]

Great video! I'm a Messianic Jew but I certainly learned a lot in regards to the difference between the MJAA, UMJC, and IAMCS. I'll have to share this video with some of my relatives, some are Catholic and some are Jewish and all seem rather confused about what I believe in.

[@TwoMessianicJews]

Check out our channel! :)

[@burnttoast6924]

I would recommend watching some videos from Tovia Singer if you haven’t already

[@mastergmoore]

Brother bless you! May Christ always be walking with you. Look to Rabbi Schneider He is brilliant and walks with God. As a Christian I learned very much from his channel.

[@hugoramirez7510]

Tobia Singer is a False Prophet. Yahshua didn't come to make religions. If you are not grafted into ISRAEL and are grafted into something else "religions" you are lost lost lost. (John 4:22 ts2009) You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the Yehuḏim.🙏💜 HalleluYAH🙌

[@ri3m4nn]

@@burnttoast6924 lol yeah, if you want to see a time traveling Pharisee. Listening to him sounds like arguments with Jesus straight from the Bible. It's hilarious

[@5990babygraceblue]

Absolutely love this channel! It would be neat to see a video on Anabaptist denominations

[@lukassvitek1432]

I agree!

[@lordwinterdawn111]

I started to learn of Messianic Judaism back in 2012. I did feel like something was missing from my understanding of not only Adonai, but Yeshua as well. It brought me closer to Adonai and it helped me understand a even clearer perspective of what the entire bible was saying. I just wanted to follow the path that will set my foundation. To most people, it is a taboo on what I'm in observance of. Yet, I never felt more confident or closer than I am now to Adonai.

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

Open your heart and mind to Hashem. Seek Him with all your heart, and ask Him to reveal the Messiah to you. He will do just that because you are already on the right path.

[@hugoramirez7510]

Yahshua didn't come to make religions. If you are not grafted into ISRAEL and are grafted into something else "religions" you are lost lost lost. (John 4:22 ts2009) You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the Yehuḏim.🙏💜 HalleluYAH🙌

[@rachelorlando6296]

Using Hebrew words and Jewish concepts doesn't make you a Jew. Learn the fullness of our religion from OUR teachers, not from others claiming to be ours. The only people who are swayed by messianic "Jews" are ones who never fully understood their own religion in the first place.

[@Spiritual144Israel]

​@@rachelorlando6296 If you are a "Jew" that rejected Christ you are in error. If you are a "Jew" that accepts Christ as the Messiah you are in truth. Yeshua said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, nobody gets to the Father YAH but through me."

[@MaryamMaqdisi]

It is a bit funny that I so often see Messianic Jews spell out the names of God, even the Ten Commandments say not to lol

[@eldoradolou]

This is a most interesting and informative video about Messianic Judaism. Could you please make a video about the Hebrew Catholics as well?

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

Being a Catholic and born again Catholic are two different things all together. You must be born again in order to enter the kingdom of heaven; thereafter your choice of liturgical style is something that the Holy Spirit will lead you into.

[@matthewbateman6487]

Yes Hebrew Catholicism would be super interesting! I sorta thought I was the only person who knew about it.

[@hugoramirez7510]

No one is born again only until we die and are chosen as set-apart ones to reign with Messiah it is written. Yahshua didn't come to make religions. If you are not grafted into ISRAEL and are grafted into something else "religions" you are lost lost lost. (John 4:22 ts2009) You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the Yehuḏim.🙏💜 HalleluYAH🙌

[@LitoLochoss]

@@hugoramirez7510 wrong

[@Dorn-Dvinn]

This was a very interesting, broad and deep examination of Messianic Judaism.

[@robforney9252]

I really appreciate your approach with all of your videos. Using source material from whatever community you're talking about without unnecessary commentary. Great job, and thanks for what you do!

[@enchantingdan3449]

Ah yes. 1 in the morning is a perfectly reasonable time to post a KZbin video. (Just messing around lol. Love your stuff!)

[@jonathansoko1085]

You dont have to watch a video the second its uploaded.

[@isanyoneelseheretoday]

@@jonathansoko1085 but then how would he get his sweet sweet "first" comment 😂

[@lukesalazar9283]

@@isanyoneelseheretoday exactly

[@georgeramos3437]

The brother has a fire shut up in his bones, & couldn’t wait to share the message of the Messiah for both the original believers, the messianic Israelites, & what YAhusha called “another flock have I” (Christians).

[@isanyoneelseheretoday]

@@georgeramos3437 what's the difference between messianic Israelites and Christians?

[@ooffordays566]

This is a really interesting group to learn about! I had never heard of them before watching this video, but I knew that the majority of Christians during the time of Paul the Apostle were of Jewish descent, so hearing that there is a sect of Christian-adjacent Jews today is really interesting, and hearing their unique perspective on the body of Christ is truly fascinating and insightful.

[@HesderOleh]

They aren't really Christian adjacent Jews. They are a Christian denomination that has a few a few token jews to try to spread the gospel to Jews.

[@TwoMessianicJews]

You might enjoy our channel! :)

[@metsfan1873]

MJ's are NOT Jews and they are NOT "Jewish adjacent." They are Christians who are ashamed of the label "Christian."

[@rachelorlando6296]

They aren't Christian-adjacent Jews, they're Christians pretending to be Jews.

[@metsfan1873]

@@rachelorlando6296 More accurately, they're Ebionite Christian heretics, but they probably don't know this word. But don't tell them, it would just make them sad. They are Christian heretics pretending to be Christians pretending to be Jews. Now, some Christians would say - hey wait, they aren't Christian heretics, they're authentic Christians. As a Jew I have to back away and say: That's a dispute between Christians, nothing to do with us! Either they're authentic Christians, or else they're heretical Christians - y'all can sort that out without us. From a Jewish POV, not our problem. What KIND of Christians they are - nothing to do with us either way.

[@fluffysheap]

I'm glad you made this video. From a Christian perspective, I think we should have closer ties between Christian and Jew in general. Again from a Christian perspective, I can't really see, theologically, why Messianic Jews would be considered less welcome than atheists, or less Jewish than liberal Jews who don't follow the Law. Jesus doesn't cause anyone to stop being ethnically or culturally Jewish. Jesus and the Apostles were all Jews, and Paul indicates that Jews were supposed to be, if anything, first among equals in the world of Christians, and that they would still be Jews as well.

[@HesderOleh]

From a Jewish perspective keeping Jewish law doesn't have anything to do with whether you are Jewish or not, just like a doctor is still a doctor even if they don't have a medical practice. Choosing a different faith does make you not part of the Jewish community, just like if you start eating meat you are no longer a vegan. Maybe this would clear things up, a Christian who doesn't go to church regularly is still a Christian, if they start believing in the hindu gods then they aren't a christian.

[@---wp3oc]

​@@HesderOleh You have an overly restrictive definition of Jew that disqualifies the majority of Jews (who are not religious) from being Jewish. After all, how can you be Jewish when you don't even believe in the Jewish God?

[@HesderOleh]

@@---wp3oc No, the jews who are not religous are just not practicing they haven't converted to another religion. Here is an example, a country has a draft for fight another country, you don't lose your citizenship just because you are a conscientious objector or you don't fight for some other reason, but if you sign up to fight in the enemy country's army then you do lose your citizenship. Just because the name of the unit is called your country if you are working to recruit people to the enemy's army then you aren't part of your country's army. Now this military analogy isn't to say that religions should be fighting. In fact any respectful interfaith group will not include groups that call themselves messianic Jews.

[@---wp3oc]

​@@HesderOleh Well, that's the problem with the military analogy, religions aren't all technically at war with each other, and in many cases atheists, agnostics, and secularists do struggle against their former (or other) religions, in other words, "actively oppose the war effort".

[@didonegiuliano3547]

jews denied Christ; there’s nothing we have to do with them

[@wyllowgrayson8531]

hello, i love your videos. can you make one about sedevacantist Catholics?

[@planteruines5619]

they are not catholics , they broke off from the pope ...

[@sheo3811]

Really enjoyed the video, Joshua! I was wondering if you had considered making a video about Armstrongism?

[@alex21mu]

Greetings, I’m born and raised Church of God Seventh Day

[@HanStanwell]

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

[@jongoodwin5936]

Our oneness in Christ regardless of and in spite of our identities which might impede our unity with each other and our spiritual union with Christ, is an important emphasis in Holy Scripture; however, who we are, our ethnic identity, is nearly impossible to shed, and nothing underscores that so well as when someone gets up in our face and demands that we discard it.

[@HanStanwell]

@@jongoodwin5936 agreed

[@rawman909]

Good for gentiles. You can believe in what you want. But Jews dont believes in trihead god. No trinity and no man-god. Jesus, btw never believed in those things. This is Paul invention

[@redacted7989]

@@rawman909 Jesus is King.

[@sosassteelstrings9623]

@@rawman909 by what source or evidence do you use to conclude Jesus did not believe himself to be God?

[@stephenbailey9969]

To evangelize the Jewish community in the first century AD, many of the early Christians carried on their Jewish traditions understanding that they were not essential for salvation, but were part of participating with the Jewish community. The first church council at Jerusalem under James and Peter and the other elders concluded that the Gentiles did not have to live under the Mosaic Law, even though Jewish members of the church continued some of those traditions. They spoke against those 'Judaizers' who insisted that the Gentiles had to be fully integrated into Judaic practice. It is no different than missionaries today who adopt some of the practices of the local community--such as women wearing some form of covering or accepting food restrictions--in order to be accepted and evangelize that community.

[@alenpaul2523]

Gentiles were never under mosaic law anyway and new convenient is with house of Israel and house of Judah not with gentiles.

[@tintinismybelgian]

Peter and John went to pray (at the temple). They met a lame man on the way.

[@stephenbailey9969]

@@alenpaul2523 I think the apostle Paul would say that there is 'no longer Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free', but all believers are one under the covenantal blood of Christ, by the new birth of the Spirit. (Galatians 3:28; John 1:11-13)

[@MAMoreno]

@@stephenbailey9969 But Paul said that in a very specific context: Jewish Christians trying to force Gentile Christians to undergo circumcision and snubbing them if they wouldn't.

[@stephenbailey9969]

@@MAMoreno That was the context. The principle is eternal: all believers are one in Christ (Colossians 3:9-11). All believers are citizens of the Jerusalem above. "She is our mother." (Galatians 4: 21-31; This he said to the Galatian congregation consisting of those who were Gentiles in the flesh.) And one day that heavenly Jerusalem will descend and fill a new heavens and a new earth (Revelation 21:1-4).

[@freespeech4all757]

I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring. I was raised in a conservative Jewish home; we were culturally Jewish, but pretty secular. We ate ham and bacon and shellfish without thinking about it, and went to the synagogue twice a year (Yom Kipper and Passover). I never felt connected to the religion I was brought up in and my home life was pretty dysfunctional so I fell into the drug and party scene. After floundering about in that haze for awhile, I got radically saved through the witness of a Christian friend. I then asked "What do I do next?" The answer was "Pray and read your Bible." I then asked "Where should I go to church?" The answer: "Let the Holy Spirit lead you". Pray and read your Bible. Let the Holy Spirit lead you. Those basics have held me in good stead for over 40 years now. If you wanted to put me in some kind of theological box, I'd say I'm basically a Protestant Christian - Messianic Jew, largely dispensational in outlook, and a continuationist. A defining moment came for me after I had been a Christian for about 4 years. I was going to get into my car with my Bible, and I heard a voice say - directly into my mind - "What you are holding in your hand is the Word of God.' It wasn't audible, but it WAS powerful, spoken right into my being. That conviction has never left me. Personally, I've never been attracted to Messianic Worship or congregations, though I've visited a few. As far as where I worship, I let the Holy Spirit guide me. I'm currently worshipping at a Pentecostal church (not oneness) which is also sabbatarian, even though I'm not. In the past I've worshipped mostly AOG, but had times of attending Baptist, Methodist, and even Anglican churches. They were interesting experiences, but not suitable for the long term. My strongest guiding principle comes from 2 Peter 3:18: "Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." That, and nothing equals or supersedes that which is found in the 66 books which make up Holy Scripture.

[@frankmckinley1254]

MJAA are heavily connected to Evangelical denominations. I know of two Christian pastor's that are also MJAA Rabbi's. Judaism's today was formed between the fall of the Temple in 70 CE and the failed Bar Chovah revolt several year's later. Coming from the sect of the Pharisee's, there were 5 sects in the second Temple period. The sect of the Nazarene was one.

[@rogermansour6085]

As a messianic Jew I must say this young man did an excellent job.I will forward this video to my Jewish friends. Evangelist ROGER MANSOUR missionary to Haiti

[@aylacraig1815]

i’m a jewish convert student and i LOVE your videos out of pure curiosity and thank you for the neutral position on this. i don’t believe that messianic judaism is a form of judaism at ALL but i find this topic interesting

[@TwoMessianicJews]

Check our our video explaining our perspective on how Torah and Jewish identity fits in with faith in Jesus. You might disagree with it, but this is a good place to at least hear where we are coming from kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKC0eqJteryneck Or, if you want to hear more about what Jews think of Messianic Jews, you would enjoy this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpaUdqyNpM2ZfLM

[@yellowelmo1474]

Can you make a video on why many Christians believe the Old Testament is invalid? I've always been super confused about this.

[@powerfulaura5166]

Christians do not really believe this. They do most generally believe that the Old Testament law is not incumbent on them for salvation (only belief in Christ, his deity, & sacrifice/resurrection can accomplish that), & that that the ritual law is not prescribed to them at all.

[@yellowelmo1474]

@@powerfulaura5166 Thank you for your reply! This actually makes me have even more questions haha. Why do they think the New Testament is only necessary for salvation? Do they still believe everything in the Old Testament happened? And if they don't believe any of the Old laws apply to them, do they accept any other type of teachings from the Old Testament?

[@yellowelmo1474]

@@mingledingle1556 "Invalid" is probably the wrong term, but whenever I hear someone mention something from the Old Testament, I hear a Christian saying "but that's the Old Testament"

[@haroldfisher7528]

@@mingledingle1556 I'd like to add that Christans largely do things out of the law of moses, but only the things pertaining to morality. They are also repeated in the new testimate.

[@onewholovesvenison5335]

The Marcionites, an early heretical sect who literally believed the Gods of the old and new testaments were different beings, had their own scriptural cannon which excluded the Old Testament.

[@nathaliebolton6908]

Would you ever consider doing a video on the IFB vs. the New IFB (Steven Anderson and such.)? The only comparison I've ever seen was a clip of Steven himself explaining it in a Fundie Fridays video and I don't think he is someone I wanna learn anything from. :D

[@aaud5841]

Awesome. Well-developed presentation. Praise God. Thank you for doing this, Joshua. May God guide you.

[@Mortykai]

Great video, and you do such a wonderful job of explaining these topics in a way that is easy for people like me to understand! Keep up the good work!

[@hugoramirez7510]

Yahshua didn't come to make religions. If you are not grafted into ISRAEL and are grafted into something else "religions" you are lost lost lost. (John 4:22 ts2009) You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the Yehuḏim.🙏💜 HalleluYAH🙌

[@Mortykai]

@@hugoramirez7510 Worshiping in spirit and truth is what is important. Yeshua, Jesus, etc. imo isn't really important as long as you're talking about the same person of the Messiah, the Christ, the King of kings & Lord of lords. Religions, denominations, etc. are all divisions in the Body of Christ, and while there are definitely differences in beliefs that are important to make distinctions between, saving faith in Christ Jesus is what is truly important!

[@tigger55100]

You did a great and fantastic job in presenting the Messianic Judaism in full context. It seems a secret that many are seem to be discovering.

[@bloodyroses97]

As a born Christian I have been interested in potentially converting to Judaism, however I just could not see Jesus not being the messiah. Messianic Judaism sounds like the perfect middle ground. Definitely going to be doing some more reading up on it!

[@grantmurphy7965]

May I ask what you mean by a "born Christian?"

[@simonskinner1450]

@@grantmurphy7965 I have gripe on the topic of being so--called Christian, which seems to me as a catch-all term which people rarely examine. It seems to me you are examining that too. It is a benefit to all even Atheists that the terms and doctrines are correct. So I have made a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' to examine the cult ridden religion that I was born into as C of E.

[@rachelorlando6296]

There is no "middle ground". You either commit to being Jewish or remain a Christian. It's OK to just be a Christian, you don't have to pretend to be Jewish as well.

[@simonskinner1450]

@@rachelorlando6296 Well here's a shout for the middle ground, the true religion of Abraham and the Jews, who can only go to heaven in the church of Christ. If you are a true believer you are called a Jew, to go to heaven you need the Holy Spirit, and therefore must be Born Again of the Spirit. Hence a Born Again Jew. If you say you must commit to being Jewish, then that's not be in the law of Moses, it must be in the law of Abraham. And it not ok to be 'Christian' as that is a collective of cults, and those in the Mosaic Law took the curse over the blessing, but Paul pointed to the true religion of Abraham that he was a lost sheep from. If you watch my Ytube video series called 'Myths in so-called Christianity', you will find the truth, and it is complicated as it is all Jewish Hermeneutics.

[@Lauren-vd4qe]

@@grantmurphy7965 read John 3:3 Unless ye are born again, ye shall not see the Kingdom of God. so unless you become a bac, you wont go to Heaven. so unless you pray to receive Jesus as your Saviour, and obey the New Testament as much as possible, u will not go to Heaven. thats what that is.

[@bobstille6017]

Your content is informative. Thanks! Could you possibly shed some light on what the Unitarian Universalists beliefs are?

[@joshuacooley1417]

I'm sure that there are lots of flavors of messianic Judaism. However, having grown up as a protestant among protestants who were really into all things Jewish, and loved messianic Judaism, my experience is that most messianic Jews I've ever met are just mainstream protestants with a thin veneer of Jewish culture applied over the top.

[@ericaholmes3917]

I never understood why my people don't consider Messianic Jews Jewish. I mean, what can be more Jewish than worshipping one?

[@trafledrakel7118]

Because they are not ethnically jews, or religiously jews. They are christians with borrowed jewish aesthetics and hebrew terms.

[@ericaholmes3917]

@@trafledrakel7118 I'm sorry to say, but that is almost completely inaccurate. Many Messianics come from Jewish families, have the heritage, and still follow all of the Jewish holidays and traditions. They stand out and differ from the average Christian completely. Mostly, they aren't people taking some Hebrew philosophies and calling themselves Jews. There might be some out there, but that's the thing: we both can't say that ALL people do something. It's like saying all Christians cherry pick and are judgmental. That's just not true for everyone.

[@trafledrakel7118]

@@ericaholmes3917 there are messianic jews with jewish heritage just like there are christians, atheist and buddhist people with jewish heritage, but this doesn’t make their group a jewish group. I see how you may say it’s different because of the jew/non-jew ratio within messianic jews being bigger than in christians and buddhists, but messianic judaism is messianic judaism, and not judaism. If they call themselves messianic jews, they are telling the truth, but if they tell people they are jews, they end up misrepresenting the jews and confusing people, making them believe this is what a jew is, so they should only call themselves messianic jews.

[@kianth2451]

Well, from a purely traditional Jewish perspective that would actually be pretty not Judaic. Since that is viewed as a form of idolatry. I don't pass judgement on either though, I get kind of suspicious about the Messianic congregations that have engaged in disinformation to trick people into coming to their places of worship but I don't think that represents a majority.

[@batissta44]

​@Kianth how is worshipping God idolatry?

[@CaptianRavioli]

Messianic Jew here, I love this video and I appreciate someone talking about the topic. it sometimes feels like people either don't know we exist or hate us because we do

[@patrickmccarthy7877]

The 12 apostles were Messianic Jews, the first Christians were Jews, so this isn't new. Love God, love people and love learning. That's my religion.

[@cjgallardo957]

There is a major difference. Rabbinic Judaism today is not the same as Judaism was back then.

[@patrickmccarthy7877]

@@cjgallardo957 Why don't Jews sacrifice animals anymore, Leviticus says they have to do it. Because Jesus paid it all.

[@deliverancenow100]

Thank you for this video I just want to say that it’s really sad because no one ever comments if they have ever asked God what he wants or what he says is the right one ☝️ ❤ Shalom

[@sylvia4425]

*Seventh Day Adventists keep the Seventh Day Sabbath Holy from sundown Friday until sundown Saturday. We attend Sabbath school an hour before meeting in the main congregation for Sabbath Worship. We believe in God, Jesus Christ, the holy spirit. We read the holy bible (OT & NT). We follow the same dietary laws that God gave us in the OT. (It's really what God intended for the good of our bodies! The Designer would know!! ) We fellowship with family and others after church by sharing meals, nature walks, prayer, scripture bible studies...anything that gets us closer to God. It's an amazing feeling! I think today's world would benefit so much from this. More marriages, and families could be closer if we kept his Sabbath holy. It's basically unplugging from our cell phones, tv shows, sports, anything secular and focus on Him as OUR CREATOR!!! It's truly a blessing!* Almost seems logical that a Messianic Jew could or is a SDA, ya know? Or for that matter...vice-versa! We truly are family of God.

[@HerbertPrince]

Although we don't claim to be Christian, simply because we still follow the teachings of Moses, of which Yeshua (Jesus) taught from when He was on earth, as well as the Disciples, the Apostles, and Paul, we don't claim to be 'Christian' because we don't observe the secular holidays such as valentine's day, easter, May day, halloween, or christmas, as all came from paganism, as well as we keep the Sabbath. We are Messianic believers and we of Yahweh and Yeshua, (The Father and The Son, both of which are God, along with The Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit), Who also is God. We don't believe in the 'Trinity', as this is a Catholic doctrine, which says God is three persons, separate but equal. The Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4 states, 'Shema Israel, Adonai is our Elohim, Adonai Echad', translated: 'Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One', which is a 'Unified One' (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). God never does say He is separate but rather He is One. Messianic believers observe the Torah, the first five Books of the Bible, which are God's Instructions in Righteousness. The Law in which Yeshua (Jesus) God, gave to Moses on Mount Sinai, we still follow as best that we can, as now there isn't a temple in Jerusalem. And besides, if His. Law isn't kept, it means we are Lawless, as scripture has much to say about this. We can't keep all of the Law, as some are for men, some are for women, some are for the priests, and some are for only the high priest. We only observe the Written Law, but not the oral law of which the religious Jews observed and still observe today, as there are 1,583 of them, if I'm not mistaken, instead of the 613 of which is the Written Law. We also eat Kosher, just as the early church did when Yeshua walked the earth. We are made up of Jews and non-Jews, but we all from the seed of Abraham, meaning we all are part of the Commonwealth of Israel, and we are all Hebrews. We observe the 7 major Biblical Feasts of the Lord, and some of us observe the minor Feasts as well. On KZbin, Search for: Lion and Lamb Ministries based in Norman Oklahoma, with Monte Judah, as he has been teaching the Torah now for 40 years.

[@mustachemike7482]

It's quite sad when not believing in God is less of a threat then believing in Jesus within the Jewish community. It seems like God no longer has any purpose within the Jewish identity, there are many atheist Jews who still consider themselves Jewish, yet would rage if a fellow Jew told them they believed in Jesus.

[@ironstrong3431]

I know right

[@zjzr08]

Au contraire, I actually think the disbelief from Rabbinic Judaism (which most of the Jewish heritage after the destruction of the Temple come from) is an open book for secular Jews to seek Jesus IMO, and I think that 33% is progress, when Christianity was seen as taboo for the Jewish world in general before.

[@mitrydatespruski]

Great vid as always. I'm always amazed how matter-of-fact and unbiased you are. Tbh I don't even know what denomination you belong to which I think is a good sign for an informative channel. I'm always wary of people claiming that they somehow discovered the way the Church was meant to be from the start after 20 centuries, as though the Holy Spirit was asleep all this time, which includes both pentecostals and messianic jews.

[@musicalintentions]

Thank you for this thorough and thought-provoking video.

[@USA50_]

I often say Jesus was a Jew and am proud of growing up in Christian traditions while also respecting Jewish cultural traditions. My thoughts of Jesus is that he did participate in Jewish life/traditions plus he read the Torah in Temple. So, we can respect the concept of messianic leadership in Judaism. ❤️🙂🇺🇲

[@hugoramirez7510]

Yahshua didn't come to make religions. If you are not grafted into ISRAEL and are grafted into something else "religions" you are lost lost lost. (John 4:22 ts2009) You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the Yehuḏim.🙏💜 HalleluYAH🙌

[@samuelrobinson5842]

As Christians we need to know the Torah/OT better. In my walk with the Spirit I have been led to a more Jewish mindset so I celebrate the Jewish holidays and see how Christ is pictured in them. I would like to keep a saturday sabbath but I do not know any churches or messianic synogogues around me to be able to do that

[@sweetcuppan2784]

Sabbath means rest. Rest from laborious work. You can observe the 7th day on your own. Under the new convenant all that the believers do is for relationship purposes and not for religious purposes. Shalom.

[@justinpetrash1005]

I am a follower of this. The common phrase is “Messy-Antics” a play on Messianics. I have been in congregations that are very Jewish, congregations that are heavily Christian, and we left in a frenzy of one that was getting extremely cult like (calling the “rabbi” a Moses-like figure) All this difference has for me been very beneficial I will say. Constant testing of teaching, practices, and statements made by various leaders. I personally reject most things from Judaism. There were 12 tribes (13 if you split Ephraim and Manasseh). Why accept the practices of 1 tribe? Our best shot at biblical adherence is returning to the Torah itself. What do these laws mean to God? What do these laws mean to you? Specifically tzitzits, is this 4 knots placed on corners of your clothing or can this be fringes placed all around your clothing. 4 corners of the earth doesn’t mean earth has 4 sides but implies all around the earth. No one needs to be forced into circumcision but, if after thorough study, the spirit placed it upon you to be circumcised, do it. No one should be forced not to eat pork but if God places that on your heart, stop eating pork. Every man is the head of his household, you determine the practices of your household.

[@justinpetrash1005]

Wanted to clear up that as for my family and I, we believe that we should as best we can, as often as we can, and that we are obligated to follow all the commands of Torah. There are of course limitations. There is not a standing court devoted to Torah, people cannot be sentenced to death buttt the government does bear the sword. We cannot perform sacrifices because there is no standing temple. And some commandments are hard to decipher what exactly they want us to do nowadays. In these cases, it is helpful to study Judaism for how they fulfill the commandment. Do this very carefully not to add or subtract from the command with a Biblical filter guiding you.

[@justinpetrash1005]

Rabbinical Law is very very helpful but like all religions and human made things, they are subject added traditions that are not in line with Torah, this is exactly what Yeshua constantly rebelled against. He didn’t abolish Sabbath but was bringing back to its original purpose and the spirit behind it. In Judaism, there are a lot of rules that can make Sabbath quite burdensome and illogical yet, you can feel sanctification, holiness, Godly order while witnessing a Torah Service Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

[@cassandra5516]

Your comments here are very level headed and make sense. Going back to Torah, properly diving in, is the most important thing as far as study and adherence goes.

[@Jonathan-ym3yw]

Have to agree to disagree you either followHalacha (Jewish law) or don’t , ofc everyone do what they can, but you strive to follow the 613 mitzvot of you are Jewish and the 7 nohide laws if you are gentile , doesn’t mean you will succeed we all human but that’s the blueprint that you should strive and not be your own Gd and make your own philosophy, Gd bless

[@rev.stephena.cakouros948]

Some Messianic Jews have a separatist mentality. Part of the problem is the Dispensational school of theology which has always fostered the notion that the final difference between the Jew and the Gentile has not been overcome by the Gospel. And if so the Jew will again return to spiritual prominence. He won’t just be part of the overall plan of God. This creates a mindset that can come between them and Gentile believers, who are in fact for time and eternity their equals, as foreseen by the prophets, Hosea 1:10, and explained by the apostle Paul in Ephesians 2: 13-22. If it is asked how the difference between the Jew and the Gentile could have been erased it is because that difference was not fundamental. It served a purpose for a time. Messianic Jews must therefore accept the fact that according to Jeremiah 31:31-32, and Matthew 21:43, the church of the Living God, which places Jews and Gentiles on the same footing, is now the Israel of God; where what counts is not your ethnicity but whether you have been renewed in the Holy Spirit, see Galatians 6: 15-16.

[@TwoMessianicJews]

If you would like to understand the Messianic Jewish case for ongoing distinction and the value of ongoing distinction, check out our video about it. You may disagree, but this is a good place to start in trying to understand where we are coming from :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKC0eqJteryneck

[@optomix3988]

Thank you for breaking this down so clearly. I have always wondered about Messianic Judaism. I not yet met a Messianic jew and have always wanted to ask all sorts of questions.

[@BillyEilish]

Great video, and the quotes make it even better, so we can see opposing views. So many sects with extra steps.

[@alexcitron5159]

Really good overview! I've been in MJ for 32 years, a Christian (believer) 5 before that. I have the distinction that for all but 5 of those years I've also been in church, mostly as a paid musician, and now just because it feels right. The only thing -- most of us put the accent on the 2nd syllable: y'SHUA-a. I look forward to watching more!

[@SinaticusApologia]

Thank you, very much for this. Its very rare to see us represented in a neutral 3rd party light like this. More often then not we are defined by what we ARN'T in relation to who ever is talking about us VS what we ARE.

[@jaymccargo6151]

its hard for us

[@rachelorlando6296]

What you are is a Christian, not a Jew.

[@SinaticusApologia]

@@rachelorlando6296 a Jew is a Jew is a Jew, you cant be inconsistent with the rules of Judaism just because you feel a certain way. My mothers Jewish which makes me Jewish by Jewish law. Furthermore you as an individual have no right to tell me what my Identity is, reality does not bend or fold around your feelings.

[@stoopidpants]

If you claim to be a "messianic Jew" you ARE an Evangelical Christian. You are NOT, religiously, Jewish. There's many many (good) reasons for this if you want me to explain I will.

[@SinaticusApologia]

@@stoopidpants a Jew is a Jew is a Jew, I'm Jewish by Jewish law. so your good reasons are nothing more then ignorant double standards.

[@cw-on-yt]

This is very interesting. But, how does this compare with the Passover-celebrating Catholic groups like the Association of Hebrew Catholics? Has "Ready to Harvest" had any contact with Dr. Larry Feingold, Roy Schoeman, Rosalind Moss, etc.?

[@Draganism]

I have a complex response to this video that would be too long to be said here, but the scholars interpretation of Rom. 3:29-30, that he can read that passage how he does with a straight face is outrageous. It says nothing of the sort that he attributes to the passage. It does not advocate the ongoing seperation of Jews and gentiles but that there is only one people under one God. That is, it says the exact opposite, plainly, to what the scholar claims. How they get away with this is a mystery to me.

[@dsheppard8492]

The ranks of the apostates just keep growing. They look like a lamb but speak as a dragon,,, Rev 13

[@georgefisher9304]

All one needs is a good dose of an understanding of Paul's epistle to the Galatians, particularly the punchline of the chapter 4 allegory in conjunction with Romans 4:14, to understand just who and what Messianic Judaism is.

[@HerbertPrince]

Monte Judah of Lion and Lamb Ministries in Norman Oklahoma USA, has a series of teachings called 'Messianic Teachings on the Letters of Paul' as of August 2024, and is about to start a new series on the Book of Matthew. I know Monte would love you to watch for yourself.

[@Moe-bb3bm]

Even in Ancient Juduism there were Rightous gentiles that didn't follow the law. I believe Messianic are entitled to hold to their culture as gentile groups do but follow the New Testament.

[@VJacquette]

This appears to all be from insider sources. The classic outsider source on this topic from a scholarly point of view was by historian Dr. David A. Rausch -- rather dated now, but extremely important.

[@Talancir]

I'm a Messianic Jew and I endorse this video. A further explanation about the differing expressions of worship from synagogue to synagogue: most Messianic Jews have either a Jewish Background or a Christian Background. Accordingly, some synagogues are more Jewish than Christian in their liturgy and traditional observances, while some synagogues are more Christian than Jewish.

[@rogermetzger7335]

Please read the comment I posted last evening and then tell me whether you think I'm not Jewish because I'm not Hebrew.

[@HesderOleh]

Saying that a service is a blend between Jewish and Christian is like saying it is a blend between hindu and christian or islam and christian, it makes no sense.

[@rogermetzger7335]

@@HesderOleh I’m not saying there is no such thing as someone being “wrong” about religious beliefs or religious practices. I may be as “wrong” and anyone, for that matter. But how much better would this world be if we could find ways to minimize “us-vs.-them” mentality. The Christianity vs. The Judaism mentality developed in Rome as a way for people who believed Jesus to be the Messiah to get along with their Roman neighbors who HATED Hebrews. The process took place over decades or maybe even centuries but those “believers” gradually stopped using the Hebrew Bible during worship services, gradually began meeting on “the venerable day of the sun” - the Romans primary deity, gradually stopped observing the biblical feast days and fast days, gradually adopted the Roman holidays - and renamed them with Christian-sounding names. I’m not aware that the puritans in the New England colonies ever observed the biblical holidays but they took steps away from the use of the Roman holiday of the winter solstice. I think the puritans should never have prohibited the celebration of Christmas in their New England settlements but I understand why they didn’t consider that holiday to be biblical.

[@HesderOleh]

@@rogermetzger7335 It isn't us vs them. There is nothing wrong with being a christian, it is just that christianity isn't judaism any more than islam is christianity just because muslims believe Jesus was a prophet. It wasn't gradual, Paul rejected Judaism and went to set up a new religion.

[@---wp3oc]

​@@HesderOleh Christianity is not Rabbinic Judaism, but the two are the only strands of Second Temple Judaism (perhaps except for the Karaites) that survived the destruction of the Second Temple. Christianity is a development within Second Temple Judaism. So, it would be incorrect to say that a blend between Jewish and Christian makes no sense when the distinction itself did not fully develop until centuries after the death of Jesus.

[@kingofthemultiverse4148]

Shalom! I'm a Gentile Christian and I'm so so thankful to God for this movement, i believe that it is the bridge between Jew and Gentile, God bless my Jewish brothers and sisters in Christ.

[@ri3m4nn]

In short, they are the dominant Christians before Acts 15.

[@gianni206]

Your videos are great, I think they just need chapter markers and then they’d be perfect

[@SunflowersRays]

As a 'Messianic Christian' I go to a regular church on Sundays, keep Shabbat and the other Festivals and Feasts. I also keep the dietary laws. Do I force others to? No. That's for the Spirit to work out in their life.

[@amsterdamG2G]

a Messianic Christian? Christ & Messiah mean the same if im not mistaken?

[@gileneo]

How do you keep the festivals without the prescribed sacrifices ?

[@johnpratts2856]

@@amsterdamG2G You're correct. Christian is Greek for Messianic. So Rachel is basically saying that she likes to drive cars, inside cars. 🤣 I know she means well though. 😊

[@amsterdamG2G]

@@johnpratts2856 I know she does😅 she is a diciple of Christ. GOD bless her and you as well 🙏

[@sweetcuppan2784]

@@gileneo The sacrificial and ceremonial system of the law was nail to the cross not the moral law. Read Hebrews and Colossians. Non- jews should view the feasts of Israel in its spiritual and prophetic light. Shalom.

[@jongoodwin5936]

What interests me about this video is that you highlight three groups that are independent Messianic Jewish groups. You didn't mention at all any evangelistic organizations that proselytize unbelieving Jews and connect them to Gentile-majority churches, or the "Jewish consciousness" movements within the Christian denominations. What I find surprising is the possibility of theological emphases that are unique to certain Messianic Jews and are not a Jewish reflex of Gentile-majority Christianity.

[@Buhjr]

Nicely done. Since the fall holy days are soon upon us, it would be nice to see a survey( if have done so before) how many observed the holy days of God found in Leviticus chapter 23, just study them, and no action is taking. I personally observed them along with others in my community of Faith as prophecy fulfilled or will be fulfilled and marriage covenant fulfillment . I attended a Baptist congregation.

[@profilecanada2320]

Very thorough. Might I add that according to Acts 11:26, Antioch was where the followers were first called Christians. There were many Jewish believers in Antioch.

[@watcherwlc53]

This might fall too far outside Christian denominations which is what you focus on, BUT it would be interesting to hear your take on the Noahide Movement (essentially the inverse of Messianic Judaism)

[@komlat253]

Noahide is funny to me but it's whatever. They belive in going back all the way back which makes senses. If seen people stick only to the rules given to Noah by God or some people that take some of the laws from Moses like the 10 words ..but they also follow a even strict diet sometimes since Noah and his sons ware apparently allowed to eat the meat and wasn't done before many will follow a much more simple for of the law without priestly ordainets and not eat meat 😂. Personally I still think they are Christian but they crazy 😂. They jus believe that people need to get back to the garden and make it simple which is whatever

[@komlat253]

Buy obviously as a (Hebrew roots) or messianic jew sect guy, I think it's pretty wrong since even pual Said that convenets are stacked upon each other ,none of them cancel out but rather u just agree to more stuff between the parties because the contract is forever until one party dies so Isreal or (the church) is forced to walk through each subsequent contract because Isreal agreed to it so when people born in 2030 believe in the God of Israel they have already agreed to be part of the contracts because they are now Isreal. So obviously the don't believe subsequent contracts are in place besides the one made with Noah which is weird because I feel like that would place Noah above Moses, arron s house ,David and Jesus who facilitated the additional contracts which each premises is better than the last so why take the 1st one only?

[@adamandsethdylantoo]

I wouldn’t say Noahide is the opposite of messianic Judaism since a pretty open secret is that a lot of attendees of messianic synagogues are “Hebrew roots” gentiles, in some cases the vast majority. Noahide seems like a situation where someone is so Hebrew roots they want to go “pre Jesus” and become similar to the biblical “proselytes” who attended synagogues while still maintaining their gentile identity. This of course means they don’t even subscribe to the Ten Commandments (at least not as a point of belief) since the rabbis they follow teach those were specifically given to Israel, so it seems like they come down to basically being biblical Unitarians taught by Jews.

[@NurseJoyTV]

If you're a Christian, and wants to practice Messianic Judaism, do they need to convert?

[@alishavogel7926]

No. I am not a Jew, but I go to a Messianic Synagogue and believe in Yeshua as my Savior.

[@warrior-0078]

​@@alishavogel7926 hey i need to know more about messanic Judaism..im from Hindu nation

[@mymessagerknowledge]

There's KZbin channels and websites that are messianic. One I watch sometimes is called Beth Messiah.

[@mymessagerknowledge]

​@@warrior-0078youtube.com/@bethmessiah?si=4xl_eRAPCvNbuDjc

[@warrior-0078]

@@alishavogel7926 where is the messanic synagogue location

[@jonathansoko1085]

Years ago i almost joined a local messianic jewish congregation but then i realized they utilized the Talmud and for obvious reasons i see that as a gigantic problem.

[@FriarJoe66]

Why do you see that as a problem? Not being confrontational, just curious!

[@FriarJoe66]

@@mingledingle1556 I don’t think that’s sufficient to throw the whole Talmud away, is it not within the realm of possibility that Jewish leaders following the same God as Christians may have teachings that are worth something?

[@FriarJoe66]

@@mingledingle1556 again, I think that’s an awful lot of content to claim that there’s absolutely nothing theologically useful in the entire body of work.

[@jamesreed5678]

@@FriarJoe66 Do Christians and unbelieving Jews have the same God. Jesus hard answers than in John 8:44.

[@jamesreed5678]

@@FriarJoe66 The Talmud defines rabbinical Judaism, the post-Jesus religion that now calls itself Judaism. The Talmud is decidedly Antichrist and Antigentile.

[@mutecryptid]

I am not jewish, but I love learning of different cultures and believed I had a basic but concrete understanding of judaism. So when I randomly got an ad “encouraging jews to accept Jesus as their messiah” I assumed it was predatory and wanted to understand them more but there was not much neutral information, this video is exactly what I was looking for🎉.

[@borisvandruff7532]

Did anyone else hear the part about how Paul reportedly said we should have separate cultures? The same Paul who said “In Christ there is no Jew nor Greek”? Pay attention to this.

[@johnpratts2856]

And in Romans 11 11-22 Paul shows how Gentles are now part of Messianic Judaism and also how Gentiles can quickly become broken off if they don't keep God's word. Many Christians will be broken off because of their ego as stated in the Scripture. We see that in all these denominations and even this comment section.

[@zjzr08]

Isn't more about the spiritual culture under God rather than the physical culture, like I don't think non-Jews were forced to wear like Jews, plus Paul still kept Jewish law, DESPITE being under grace now.

[@HerbertPrince]

I know you posted this for me, as it has been 2 years since you wrote this. A Messianic ministry located in Norman Oklahoma USA, called Lion and Lamb Ministries, has been for the past few months teaching a series on their KZbin channel titled 'Messianic Teachings on the Letters of Paul'. I believe you may enjoy watching this. Monte Judah, a Messianic Torah teacher for 40 years, I know would welcome you to join him.

[@stopsomewhere9104]

As a Jew, not a messianic one though, the only question I would more push back on is if Trinitarian thinking is actually a theological backbone of the messianic Jew. I almost feel like the Unitarian version of God would find more hospitality in Jewish audiences than a trinitarian one, as for myself with a Christian father that was one of my biggest pain points with Christianity was that the moshiach is seen as the Son of David (ala Matthew) more than the Son of God

[@stopsomewhere9104]

I just got to that part of the video 😅

[@edwardhill7045]

Jews were the only nation that knew the One True God .Jesus said that was the case .But since Jesus disciples went to teach all nations Jews are not the only ones who know the One True God .And that wisdom of God is truly a blessing .I thank God for Jesus who was sent to share that knowledge with me a gentile

[@HolaBruv]

Christ is god don’t make distinctions

[@edwardhill7045]

@@HolaBruv the gospel that Jesus taught acknowleges both the Father and the Son so to say that Jesus is God is not true Christian doctrine nor is it the gospel that Jesus taught

[@edwardhill7045]

@@HolaBruv so if you believe that Jesus is God then you believe in a variation of the gospel and not the one sent by Christ to teach all nations

[@edwardhill7045]

@@HolaBruv and in case you were wondering i am still around and the devil at this time cant touch me .the devil may have you catholics scared to death but true believers have Gods protections and the devil cant touch us until God wants us to come to heaven

[@HolaBruv]

@@edwardhill7045 Brother I couldn’t understand you What? Im not even a catholic if that’s what you think I’m. What do you believe in though whose god to you? And what kind of variations of gospel are you speaking

[@TehFlush]

Fantastic videos & channel. Can you link the polls you mention?

[@thetraditionalist]

Thanks for this video, I always assumed from the name that they were Christians but never knew what they really believed. Now I know they are just a syncretism of Judaism and Christianity

[@normalcontent1415]

I FOUND YOU BRO

[@HesderOleh]

Nothing really syncretic about it. It is christianity with some cultural apporpriation from Judaism, which started out to try to trick Jews into converting but then some stuck with it because they liked it.

[@thetraditionalist]

@@normalcontent1415 what do you mean?

[@dearjonny]

Thank you for taking your time and doing such thorough research. I feel you detailed this branch of the community of Messiah well.

[@freshmanna4678]

1. His name in Hebrew is pronounced Yeh-SHOO-ah. 2. Jews expect a Messiah, don’t they? If they then believe Jesus/Yeshua as their Messiah, how does that make them no longer Jewish? They simply found their Messiah, a very Jewish thing to do.

[@freshmanna4678]

@Anna's Mind 444 I know many Jewish friends who do. They don’t cease being Jewish because they believe Messiah has already come.

[@johnpratts2856]

As a Messianic, I believe we Gentiles have it mixed up. Christianity wasn't supposed to exist. Because Christianity is supposed to be part of Judaism. The completion of the Word. Unfortunately, it was the Romans and other Gentiles that recreated believers in Jesus as a completely separate religion from the Jews. Hence, this 2000 year problem lol. Now we have all sorts of denominations everywhere and now, the Jewish people are starting to believe in Jesus. They are the firstborn of God and we as Gentiles, must follow them to further understand the Word in Messiah.

[@freshmanna4678]

@@johnpratts2856 I agree with you completely.

[@freshmanna4678]

Exactly, Anna!

[@Taco0718]

Love to see a sequel of this episode by having you look into Hebrew Catholics.

[@Ramy-x7k]

Keep up the great work, GBU

[@bishop56]

respectfully this is an overwhelmingly christian analysis of messianic judaism. It includes very little jewish theological or jewish legal discourse at all, apart from one or two quotes from newspaper articles. i'd be happy to talk with you about it

[@ignemuton5500]

For those confused on why jews accept atheist jews more than messianic jews, judaism is generally considered a religious ethnicity, a concept which is a bit alien to christians in the west but is very common among middle eastern religions and even certain christian denominations. The concept is a bit confusing, but basically it says that to be part of a religion one also has to be a part of the ethnic group though not always the other way around, such is also the case for copts, yazidis, shabaks, greek orthodox etc. Due to this, ethno religions tend to accept atheist yet culturally related people more readily than those of different ethnicities who attempt to conjoin other religions into theirs. In that way, many jews see atheist jews as still culturally related to them by language, history, etc, but messianic jews as pretenders of sorts, which to be fair to the jews, messianic judaism did genuinely start as a european christian attempt to convert jews to christianity,that combined with historical bigotry, you can get where the gatekeeping comes from

[@reedermh]

I would like to know what he thinks about Christian churches holding Shabbat services. One of the largest charismatic churches in the country (Gateway Church in the DFW area) does this, as they have had a long history of evangelism to Jewish people.

[@devonhill9099]

From what I’m gathering from this and what i know of Judaism and Christianity, it seems that messianic Jews believe Christ is the coming of the Jewish messiah to save the Jewish people - basically staying true to the ethnic origins of Christianity - as a branch off of Judaism - as a ethnic faith.

[@cw-on-yt]

Hmm...maybe. I don't think it would be fair to categorize all Messianic Jews as holding a single view. There are many groups, large and small. I characterize them this way: They look at the Old Testament and say, "Look, Jesus is the Messiah after all; and now we need to listen to what He said." Then they draw different conclusions. Many look like a sort of non-denominational Protestant Christianity practiced in a synagogue with Jewish cultural trappings. But not all are Trinitarian, and there are other doctrinal divisions. I feel confident that some (maybe most) would dispute your idea that they conceive of Christianity as a "(Jewish) ethnic faith." I think they would instead say that Christianity is a faith for all ethnicities and consequently one in which the style of worship can be expressed differently by different cultures, without contradicting one another at the level of meaning/content. HOWEVER, I think they'd also say that whereas other cultures come and go and gradually change over the centuries, it was critical to maintain the 1st-century culture of the Jews, and with it a solid understanding of Hebrew culture before the 1st century, in order to keep alive the "key" to understanding the Old Testament and Christ's Messianic identity. Losing THAT culture would make Jesus' identity unintelligible.

[@HesderOleh]

Messianic Jews are Christians who culturally appropriate some Jewish practices and language.

[@cw-on-yt]

@@HesderOleh: Well, now, let's be careful about that. Cultural appropriation comes in two forms, the good and the bad. And, an association with a particular cultural heritage can either be natural and authentic, or unnatural and fake-y. In the case of Messianic Jews, as far as I know, they are all ancestrally Jewish, of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi, circumcised on the 8th day if male, often attended Hebrew school, etc., etc. So it seems to me that the association is a natural one, provided the "appropriation" (if that's even the right word) isn't disrespectful. But there seems to be no suggestion that they intend to lampoon, disparage, or otherwise misappropriate all that Judaism was between Moses and the first century. They do, of course, dispute some (though not all) of the changes made in Rabbinical traditions in response to the destruction of the Second Temple. But disputes among rabbis are, themselves, nearly endless. And this disputation only increases if you take into account the differences between some modern flavors of Rabbinical Judaism and the flavors that were dominant 500 years ago, or 1,000 years, or 1500 years. It's fair to say that most practitioners of non-Orthodox Judaism today would not be recognized as practicing Jews at all by Akiva or Gamaliel or Shammai or Maimonides. So I think that "cultural appropriation," used in a negative sense, just isn't the right label. From a Practicing Jewish perspective, the Messianic Jews are ancestrally Jewish people who think that they are practicing Judaism, but aren't. From their own perspective, they are ancestrally Jewish people who think they are practicing Judaism better and more completely than their non-Messianic brethren. To decide which was right, we would need an authoritative, "buck stops here" kind of ruling from an authority that both groups regarded as validly speaking for God. BUT, the two groups share no such common authority. (Indeed, is there any common authority in Rabbinical Judaism able to resolve disputes between Hasidim and Reform Jews? If not, how much less is there an authority shared in common with the Messianics?) So I don't think we can clarify any further than what I said before: Of the persons who are ancestrally Jewish, most aren't Messianic, a few are; the former claims the latter aren't practicing Judaism; the latter say that they are; and that's that.

[@HesderOleh]

@@cw-on-yt most Christians who call themselves messianic Jews weren't Jews before converting to Christianity. I have no problem with cultural appropriation in general. Cultures mix and good things spread and get adapted. The term messianic Judaism was made up to try to trick Jews into converting to Christianity. There is no question of that fact. There is nothing wrong with a person believing whatever they want, but all Jews of all denominations agree that Christianity isn't Judaism. A messianic 'rabbi' is no more a rabbi than he is an imam. You can be a Jew and worship an wooden idol but that clearly isn't Judaism, the same thing holds for worshipping Jesus. I could start a religion that says that Jesus is the devil Mohammed is the real Messiah, but if I called out Christianity to try to get Christians to join my religion, that would clearly be misleading

[@cw-on-yt]

@@HesderOleh: You say: "Most Christians who called themselves Messianic Jews were not Jews before converting to Christianity." Do you have a statistical basis for that claim? I admit that I have only known five, but all of them were born to a Jewish mother, three to a Jewish father. So my personal experience is the opposite of what you claim...unless, by "Jewish" you meant practice of Judaism, not ancestry? (Unfortunately it is necessary to make the distinction for clarity's sake.) Of the five families, I don't know the prior practice of three; one practiced in the Reform tradition but was lax about keeping kosher; and the family of the last viewed Judaism through (it seemed to me) the lens of Holocaust remembrance, but had no religious practice. So I could easily believe that most Messianics were from non-practicing families. Perhaps that is what you meant? I'm glad you and I agree about cultural appropriation in general. But I don't know why you should attribute trickery -- you didn't say the word "conscious" but I assume you meant it since it is part of the connotation -- to the persons who claim Jewish ancestry, and who identify as Messianic Jews. That's a pretty dire accusation. Do you have evidence that a significant portion of those who call themselves Messianic Rabbis were goyim from birth, with no blood tie, matrilineal or otherwise? ...and that they then pretended a fake ancestry, the Jewish equivalent of Elizabeth Warren? I'm open to hearing your argument, but since it sounds like it disagrees with my experience, I think some evidence is called for. As for people claiming that a non-Christian religion is Christianity? Heh. Been there, done that. Leftism (not "liberalism," please note, but Leftism) is particularly prone to claiming to be Christian, and for the purpose of ideological conquest of churches and related institutions from within, as is the wont of Leftists. (The usual term for it is "deconstruction.") That's an ongoing current issue for Christians. I would apply the same analysis ("calls itself Christianity, but ain't") to various other less-ideological groups (denominations and sects) also...but, importantly, I would NOT accuse most of the participants in those groups of any dishonesty. I figure that, for the most part, they thought they had good reason to trust their parents and their teachers when those persons claimed that, yes, this 18th century sect "really is authentic first century Christianity" (however laughable the claim might be to a serious historian). There is some biography behind this: I myself came from a group that claimed to practice authentic first century Christianity, and I trusted that unconcernedly until I was 35 because the people who told me that were good folk who believed it themselves. I found out differently through independent historical research, and began practicing a more historically authentic expression of Christianity as a result... but with no animus towards either those who taught me the best they knew, or towards my earlier self, since after all, I was only doing the best that I knew. So I figure that, if I can be that mistaken, so cluelessly, for so long, I can hardly blame anybody else for making the same mistake.

[@georgeramos3437]

Shalom! Would you please do an in-depth video on the Hebrew Pentecostal Federation? Their churches are called “House of God.,” or “Hebrew Pentecostal House of God.” They are Hebrew Christians. Similar to messianic Jews, both testaments are of equal value, keep a strict kosher diet as outlined in the Torah, & you can find many of them wearing kippahs (or yarmulkes), the mandated holy feasts (or holy days [Yom Kippur, Rosh ha Shanna, Chanukkah, etc.]), & maintain a Presbyterian governmental polity. Their most notable member was singer, Marvin Gaye who grew up in their ministry before growing up, & turning to secular music. Shalom!

[@Lepua2009]

I have never been this confused in my life.

[@danshakuimo]

Basically everything on this channel

[@TheFranchiseCA]

@@danshakuimo I usually understand people much better afterwards. Usually.

[@tomnola7204]

Very well explained. I have always wanted to hear a neutral point on this subject

[@rogermetzger7335]

At 6:15, the following statement is displayed. “In true communication, it is important to use terms that clearly express what you honestly mean to say, rather than rely on popular catch phrases and labels that seem easier to use, but that listeners may define differently than what you think you are conveying.” Beginning at about 9:40, this statement is displayed. “When Gentile churches today criticize Jewish believers in Jesus for Jewish dancing or abstaining from pork or other elements of their heritage and culture, Gentile churches impose their own culture as the norm. This prejudice differs little from Paul’s rivals in Galatia who wanted to impose traditional Jewish customs on Gentiles. (Next frame.) “The parallel simply reveals how deep is the challenge of syncretism, of mixing our own cultural values with the gospel and assuming that the mixture represents the gospel. Contextualizing our faith in cultural forms is good; making this contextualization the standard for all cultures represents a fatal misunderstanding of the gospel.” Neither of my parents was Hebrew and neither of them followed the religion of Judaism. Neither was Arabic and neither of them followed the religion of Islam. From 1944 when I was born until 1959 when we moved to Colorado, our family lived in the midwestern United States. Our parents gave Bibles to my siblings and me - all or nearly all of which Bibles contained 66 books. Our parents read Bible stories to us, sometimes from the Bible (King James translation) and sometimes from story books in modern English. They encouraged us to memorize Bible passages. I don’t think they made any effort to read half of the stories from the Hebrew Bible and half from the Gospels and the Epistles. I don’t think they consciously tried to encourage us to memorize the same number of Bible passages from the Hebrew Bible as from the Gospel and the Epistles. But the ratio was no more than 60/40 or less than 40/60. I was about ten when I first realized that most of the other children in our neighborhood also had Bibles but most of those Bibles had only 28 or 29 books. It was about then that I learned that the liturgical Bible readings read by some congregations on Sundays included readings from the Psalms but seldom or never from other parts of the Hebrew Bible. Our parents tried to teach us about church history, including the concept that the main thrust of the protestant reformation was in the sixteenth century but that it began even before that and - from their perspective - it continued in the seventeenth century, first with the puritans and then with Roger Williams and continued in the eighteenth century with the Wesley brothers and their friends. Our parents taught us to admire the reformers but not to idolize them. From our parents’ perspective, reformation was as needed in the twentieth century as it had ever been. I thought of their religion as personal - not institutional - and it was clear to me that their goal was similar to that of the puritans in the sense of attempting to limit their religious beliefs and practices to those based on scripture rather than on traditions. I grew up thinking of Judaism as a religion based more on traditions than on scripture but I also thought most of the ostensibly Christian families in our neighborhood subscribed to beliefs and practices that were based more on traditions than on scripture. Compared to when I was born, there is now a trend I very much approve - that of the followers of traditional Judaism and traditional “Christianity” attempting to better understand and appreciate each others’ traditions. I suspect that the rise of various forms of “Messianic Judaism” have developed as a result of people trying to find a way to synthesize traditional Judaism and traditional “Christianity” I don’t automatically assume that all religious traditions are bad. I only try to avoid basing my own beliefs and practices on traditions. Which means that I have my own personal way of synthesizing the teachings of the Hebrew Bible with those of the Gospels and the Epistles. Before 1958, I didn’t call it that but, in my personal interpretation of the Bible, I use “the principle of prior reference” - the principle that anything purported to be special revelation should be evaluated and interpreted by older revelation. It will come as no surprise if my interpretations differ from the interpretations of people who attempt to interpret the Hebrew Bible by the Gospels and the Epistles. Using the method described above, here are some of the definitions I consider to be biblical. Hebrew/Hebrews - people who are physical descendants of Abraham through Issac and Israel (Jacob). Israelite/Israelites/Jew/Jews - people who are the spiritual descendants of Abraham through him whose name means “he who prevails with God”. Neither Hebrews or non-Hebrews are truly Israelites/Jews or Jewish until they become the children of Abraham by faith - by being reborn as Israelites. (The descendents of the patriarch, Judah, were not called “Jews” until after the division of the kingdom of Israel in the tenth century B.C.) Israelis - People who are citizens of the modern political nation of Israel. My particular way of synthesizing the Hebrew Bible with the Gospels and the Epistles could not properly be called “Messianic Judaism” because my religious beliefs and practices are - so far as possible - not based on traditions. If “tradition” is defined as something we do repeatedly or customarily, none of the above can be construed as meaning that members of our family or I don’t have traditions of our own but (if you will forgive the pun) we are religious about not considering even our own traditions as part of our religious beliefs or practices.

[@onelove6576]

I call myself christian for simplicity but when I explain my belief I say that Im a follower of Jesus Christ and I believ in the bible And Im not religious. I believ in the truth... Parden my bad english God bless you all and much love from Sweden 🇸🇪💟✝️💟

[@HerbertPrince]

Although we don't claim to be Christian, simply because we still follow the teachings of Moses, of which Yeshua (Jesus) taught from when He was on earth, as well as the Disciples, the Apostles, and Paul, we don't claim to be 'Christian' because we don't observe the secular holidays such as valentine's day, easter, May day, halloween, or christmas, as all came from paganism, as well as we keep the Sabbath. We are Messianic believers and we of Yahweh and Yeshua, (The Father and The Son, both of which are God, along with The Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit), Who also is God. We don't believe in the 'Trinity', as this is a Catholic doctrine, which says God is three persons, separate but equal. The Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4 states, 'Shema Israel, Adonai is our Elohim, Adonai Echad', translated: 'Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One', which is a 'Unified One' (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). God never does say He is separate but rather He is One. Messianic believers observe the Torah, the first five Books of the Bible, which are God's Instructions in Righteousness. The Law in which Yeshua (Jesus) God, gave to Moses on Mount Sinai, we still follow as best that we can, as now there isn't a temple in Jerusalem. And besides, if His. Law isn't kept, it means we are Lawless, as scripture has much to say about this. We can't keep all of the Law, as some are for men, some are for women, some are for the priests, and some are for only the high priest. We only observe the Written Law, but not the oral law of which the religious Jews observed and still observe today, as there are 1,583 of them, if I'm not mistaken, instead of the 613 of which is the Written Law. We also eat Kosher, just as the early church did when Yeshua walked the earth. We are made up of Jews and non-Jews, but we all from the seed of Abraham, meaning we all are part of the Commonwealth of Israel, and we are all Hebrews. We observe the 7 major Biblical Feasts of the Lord, and some of us observe the minor Feasts as well. On KZbin, Search for: Lion and Lamb Ministries based in Norman Oklahoma, with Monte Judah, as he has been teaching the Torah now for 40 years. We would love for you to tune in to watch. Shalom.

[@highlanderthegreat]

what about ROMANS 2:29 today when someone comes to believe in jesus as their savior....it says...FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, OUTWARDLY. " BY CIRCUMCISION OF THE FLESH " ...THE NEW CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, THE SPIRIT, NOT BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW ,OUR PRAISE IS FROM GOD...THE LAW IS NOW WRITTEN ON THE PERSONS HEART...

[@RH-ch4cp]

Amen 🕊️

[@beowulf.reborn]

Jerome mentions "Messianic Jews" called Nazarenes (the same Nazarenes mentioned in the Book of Acts), that were still in existence as late as the year 400 AD; and I believe that many of them still attended Synagogues despite the Jewish people at the time cursing them as heretics. Showing that the division was both extreme at that time, and yet not complete.

[@Nazarene_Judaism]

This is our congregation. Nazarene jews. We are still here.

[@reynard3767]

I'm jewish myself, and have been struggling with how to regard messianic jews for a long time. If anyone's interested in my individual perspective: on the one hand it feels wrong to tell someone that they can't self-identify as something that's part of their personal spiritual practice, and the accepted definition(s) of judiasm can get so broad that specifically excluding them feels a bit weird. On the other hand, almost every time I've looked into messianic judaism I'm more and more put off the deeper I dig into it. The roots of the modern messianic movement seem to be pretty deep in a culture directed toward converting jews and that's certainly where the most visible elements seem to be. The theology and mindset also have some stark differences from modern mainstream judaism, to the point that when my wife and I were looking for a synagogue to attend after moving we were able to figure out which websites belonged to messianic congregations well before any obvious tells came up because they talked about faith in an extremely Christian way. It doesn't really help that the way they conceive of messianic prophecy and sin are all very obviously slanted toward a christian perspective which is wildly different from any version I've seen within judaism. Some people seem to come to it with a dual-covenant ideology, where the covenant with the jews never went away and the new covenant through Jesus does not remove the obligation for the children of Israel to serve God as described in the tanakh (an obligation which jews are traditionally happy to have), and that perspective has always made a fair amount of sense to me but seems to rely on some arguments that are very unpopular among Christians. Also, as long as I'm in the comments section and outing myself as jewish, I want to thank the people behind this channel for the work they do. Understanding Christianity from the outside is difficult and getting the vocabulary to contextualize some of what I see and differentiate different schools of thought that seemed to contradict each other because they both sounded like things every Christian believes has been very helpful in helping me understand and empathize with other faiths and perspectives.

[@ventriloquistmagician4735]

I think it makes more sense if you consider Christianity as a form of Judaism. I mean, the Old Testament is like 5 times longer than the New!

[@HesderOleh]

The way I see it it is like calling yourself an islamic Jew or Hindu Jew or Christian Jew, if you are jewish it is true. But what is wrong is to call it messianic Judaism, because it isn't Judaism it is Christianity with some Jewish cultural appropriation.

[@ventriloquistmagician4735]

@@HesderOleh Idk bro, I think people can believe what they want

[@---wp3oc]

It is useful to consider the question by looking at other groups in their relationship with the dominant Rabbinic Judaism, like the Karaites and Samaritans. If you value the opinion of the Chief Rabbinate at all, Samaritanism is considered a "branch of Judaism" but Samaritans are not considered Jews, Karaites (who are ironically much closer to Rabbinic Jews than Samaritans) are not formally recognized by the Chief Rabbinate, though the State does recognize them as Jews. So what about "Messianic Jews", are they religious Jews? It ultimately comes down to definitions, where you want to draw the line. One thing that is certain, however, is that ethnic Jews who participate in "Messianic Judaism" should not be "disqualified" as a Jew, there are Jewish atheists, agnostics, and even Jubus, don't see why Jewish Christians can't be on the list.

[@---wp3oc]

​@@HesderOleh You do realize that the Jewish scribes in the process of writing, compiling, and editing the Tanakh, also "culturally appropriated" from their neighbors right? There are references in the Bible to the Lord being the "cloud rider", which is a motif used in the much earlier Ugaritic texts to describe Baal. Does that mean the Jews culturally appropriated Canaanite Paganism? Or what if we said the book of Proverbs was culturally appropriated from the Egyptian culture since it draws inspiration from the Wisdom of Amenemopet?

[@XblacklightZ]

It looks like they have alot in common with 7th day Adventists. Which is pretty interesting.

[@ironstrong3431]

What is adventist? Im tryna find a biblically accurate church or atleast most accurate

[@alexproduction4476]

I'm Messianic Jew

[@minneapolismichael9869]

Inter-denominational (and inter-faith) squabbles is a large reason I’m not religious. For example: “the term Christian, though a very endearing term to many, has been used in so many different ways it does effectively define who we are as …” Then the quote goes on and on about the numerous prefixes Christians apply all of which have me reaching for the popcorn.

[@christianwalton7080]

WOOOOOOOOO!!!!! IT'S HERE BABY!!!!!! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! :)

[@Descoob]

The MJAA and the UMJC are just two associations out of many. Many Messianic congregations and synagogues can be independent or part of a group that is part of the MJAA and UMJC or part of another group. I need to check the different groups.

[@michaelflinn2791]

Jesus: I'll sort all of this out when I return. In the mean time, try to love one another.

[@bearnurse1]

The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod has a few messianic Jewish congregations affiliated with it

[@UsesElevators]

Are the Holy Days "jewish" or are they God's Holy Days? The Scriptures never state they're strictly Jewish, so I'm confused.

[@ventriloquistmagician4735]

They're both but they're not something God wants you to observe

[@UsesElevators]

@@ventriloquistmagician4735 I suppose I haven't read that part in the scriptures yet.

[@dsheppard8492]

The sole purpose of the feasts is to show the church they mysteries of God and his plans for the processes of conversion,,, passover, infilling of the spirit as a separate act,,, pentecost, and finally the glorifying of the manifested sons of God,,, Tabernacles. What is important is the fullfilment of the type and not the ritual act which passes away at the true passover,,,the cross of the Lamb

[@UsesElevators]

@@dsheppard8492 But that doesnt make sense. Not all of the feasts have reach their fulfillment yet. Regardless, they're called feasts forever. Its just strange how folks call them Jewish feasts, when they're called God's feasts and are for us to remember and be prepared for the shadows that are to come.

[@ventriloquistmagician4735]

@@dsheppard8492 AMEN

[@gravityissues5210]

IIRC the real reason there are two main US organizations overseeing the Messianic movement was pure palace politics. The MJAA/IAMCS was dominated by the Chernoff family in Philadelphia, and some people got tired of realizing they would never move up as a result, so they split off to form the UMJC. Theologically they were entirely identical, and eventually the two reconciled (or entered some kind of polity), so it's interesting to me to hear that the UMJC seems to have become the more hardline of the two. Non-Jews who are not married to a jew cannot be full voting members of the MJAA, whereas I thought they could in the UMJC. In truth, Messianic Judaism as a movement is mostly an outgrowth of a bunch of Jewish baby boomer kids who got involved in the Jesus Movement in the late 60s/early 70s. As baby boomers, they were the usual iconoclastic kids bent on destroying everything that came before, and so in the mid 70s they hijacked the old Hebrew Christian Alliance, renamed it, and changed its focus to be less assimilationist and more culturally Jewish. Theologically it's just Charismatic Baptist (they practice adult believer baptism and very much endorse pentecostal practices, like speaking in tongues, prophesy, etc). Culturally it's just Northeastern US Ashkenazi _Yiddishkeit._ They make the occasional overtures to other Jewish expressions, like the Feres Mura in Ethiopia, but it's really mostly about the Borsch Belt. I doubt even a Sephardic Jew would find it familiar.