What is that WEIRD rhythm in Stromae's Santé? | Q+A

All right, what IS that rhythm? Also, answering other music theory questions!
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[@AdamNeely]

CORRECTIONS: It’s LOS PALMERAS not whatever nonsense I wrote in the caption. smh, lo siento to the cumbia gods 🧠 Get CuriosityStream and Nebula for 42% off! curiositystream.com/adamneely

[@noriakijayasekara7936]

na shi dui

[@Death6man]

As an argentinian, i was dead confused hahaha. Love you Adam ♥

[@onursarcicek3340]

We forgive you Adam!

[@stulora3172]

Also (trying not to be nitpicky, but here I go), Cumbia is also an important genre in Mexico. You will hear it (and dance to it (yes, you will)) at every wedding, and there are specific Mexican Cumbia subgenres. Aaaaand Mexico is in North America.

[@klaxoncow]

As I saw you on Tom Scott's video, this video feels like it's "too soon" to see you again. Don't get me wrong. It's always a pleasure. But I'm just not used to seeing this often.

[@MrMinostar]

Hi Adam! Santé has a double meaning here. It can mean “health” but it’s also used as “cheers”. That can explain the almost “drunken” vibe from the synth.

[@HardwareG33k]

Great point!

[@ShelbyDevaud]

It's not a double meaning, to be clear. It's used in the same context [in this song] as when you'd raise your glass/clink glasses and say "cheers" in English, but it does not mean cheers. It's a shortened form of "à vôtre santé/à ta santé," which is a toast to good health, literally, "To your health." The lyrics of the song are about him raising his glass (toasting them, as mentioned above) to those whose job it is to make the holidays/celebrations possible for others, and aren't able to do so themselves. Those whose work is often looked down upon.

[@Alexis-nd9kw]

OH THAT MAKES SOUND

[@mr.dikkens]

Sante just means, health, but gets used as "to your good health" when you clink your glasses.

[@NellieKAdaba]

Exactly @ MrMinos.

[@lindyzeballos5842]

For those fighting over where Stromae got the rythm inspiration : a big bolivian comunnity lives in Belgium and he hang out with this comunnity. Stromae also visited Bolivia many times.

[@jorgek92]

@Europio not true, charango in not used in mainstream nowadays music

[@jorgek92]

@Europio Stromae does not use the generic dembow you are talking about for this song, he slightly modifies it to fit in the style of the Andean Charango. He has been in Bolivia many times. Check the interview with Gilles Peterson ("Stromae English Interview With Gilles Peterson"), from the 7:39 he talks about Bolivia, the inspirations for his new album and mentions the rhythmic pattern we are discussing here.

[@cynzix]

@Europio It's not dembow, tho. It's the cumbia villera rhythmic pattern.

[@AndreaAvila78]

@@cynzix Cumbia villera???

[@zeb8543]

its a rhythm, you could easily create from yourself, if you're a creative musician.. btw i think its a boring song, a cup of noodles could "inspire" me for this one...imho.

[@tarsischagas8853]

I'm from Brazil and as a Latin American I don't think it's weird, it seems like a very familiar rhythm. Excellent analysis!

[@JM-ik9kw]

Totally. It reminds me of Mon Laferte's song "Plata Ta Tá"

[@25293Blaze]

From Mexico here. I've been exposed to a TON of Cumbia, Caribbean, and Brazilian rhythms. This beat sounds like a clave to me. A lot of music from the African diaspora have some kind of flow like this. I've never dove into the deep theory of it, it's just something you feel. Definitely not "weird" to me in the slightest. It's just sazon ;)

[@tarsischagas8853]

@@JM-ik9kw Gracias Dios por nacer un dia mas en latinoamerica

[@jeikksON]

that kind of sounds are not familiar for the north american people, i think that's the reazon they said "Weird", with not a bad context.

[@acacaacacacuca4869]

@@tarsischagas8853 probablemente de las pocas cosas buenas xd

[@XanderEwald]

The technique that Stromae uses can also be heard in kuduro, baile funk, kizomba, tarraxinha, and many other genres from lusophone countries.

[@whatabouttheearth]

It feels like I can't settle in, almost like I'm always kept off balance, I don't know, I like feeling settled into a groove so I can kinda feel at home in the song but this is calmly jarring.

[@WitherBro20]

that cutaway to Collier and Hancock saying "yeah" at each other over and over again was hilarious

[@miguelbenitez4548]

He owned them

[@tooManyMidgets]

I can't stand Collier. For some reason I hated watching every minute of him in that video "explaining music theory" x different ways. And the audacity to "explain" anything to Herbie Hancock. The best parts of music can easily emerge from having no clue what you are doing from an analytical standpoint. Overly pedantic music theory is something I come to Adam Neely for -no offense- specifically because I think he approaches the subject with ease, humbleness, enough amount of certainty, but also room for doubt. It's very satisfying to learn these things, but I don't have a desire to learn them inside and out for myself. Not to be mean or anything but I wouldn't mind if they just locked Collier in a closet somewhere with a keyboard.

[@TheSquareOnes]

@@tooManyMidgets You realize that's a standard video series format that almost always ends in them "explaining" something to another high-level expert, right? It's not meant as a sign of disrespect to Hancock and it wouldn't have been Collier's idea anyway, some producer behind the camera dictated the situation.

[@tajbratton2961]

@@tooManyMidgets I feel like you haven’t heard Jacob Collier speak much. He is extremely humble for how incredibly talented he is. Most times when he speaking I would argue he makes it pretty clear that he’s speaking from his experience and his personal relationship with harmony. In that video he didn’t even explain anything to Herbie, they just played cool chords at each other lmao

[@TimH86]

Yeah

[@dacoconutnut9503]

Stromae and Adam Neely wasn't a crossover I expected, but one that was definitely needed

[@Yo_ca_va]

I didn't even expected american people to know stromae... like why would you know him ?

[@franciscofarias6385]

@@Yo_ca_va He had some international hits like Alors on Danse and Papaoutai

[@vir-daw]

Same with the Stromae x Dirty Loops crossover from a few years ago

[@glumbortango7182]

If you want more crossovers, he did one with Tom Scott on the plus channel that went up a few days ago. Strongly suggest.

[@Neorigg]

@@Yo_ca_va stromae is very well known outside of France/Belgium

[@gilbertovalenzuela2319]

As someone from Latam i loved that he used that andine and cumbia influences, for me it doesn't sound weird maybe for foreigners might sound unique and that's cool specially for a song like this being viral

[@jo4210]

I first heard of Stromae years ago in French class in high school and immediately fell in love with him. I’m so glad to see all of these before underrated artists (at least in the states) make their comebacks, probably with a lot of thanks to tik tok sounds using their music. ICP is another great example! Love this new song by Stromae and I can’t wait to play it on blast in my car

[@TheOnirayju]

He was actually crazy sick during all those years, hence his silence. Got malaria during a show in africa.

[@jo4210]

@@TheOnirayju oh wow!! I had no clue. Thanks for sharing this!

[@its_fed3043]

@@TheOnirayju I believe he got sick from the anti-malaria medicine, not that he caught malaria itself

[@neek01]

@@its_fed3043 Yeah that’s definitely possible. It’s extremely rare but sadly it can happen. I was hospitalised for 6 months myself as a kid after i got the flu shot. GP initially kept telling my parents it’s normal to feel a little sick after a flu shot but nothing to worry about. Parents instead called my usual doctor at the hospital (since i had a lot of other medical conditions) and lost his shit after the GP said “it’s fine and just ride it out”... if my parents had called him a minute later i wouldn’t have been here today. Body reacted similar to an allergic reaction except injected straight into your bloodstream so you can imagine the effect it had on my body.

[@pantone369c]

I like the bit about naming things like "the fuzzy chord." I recently worked on a song with by partner and kept referring to a section of a song as "the squiggly riff." It made sense to us and I didn't have to get into what was being played, just that it sounded "squiggly."

[@imotha8589]

When and if you guys are ever interested in releasing it, do link it. I'd like to hear the squiggly riff.

[@BlackWhiteCloud]

@@imotha8589 it's easy. Just play a riff and squiggly-fy it... 😂

[@K3zz21]

😂

[@mfsarchive754]

Hi Adam, the rhythmic phenomenon that you attributed to "cumbia" is actually more pertaining to Andean styles like "huayno" and "carnavalito". In my experience, you only find a different approach to the cumbia genre in folkloric forms of Afro-Colombian music like "bullerengue" and "gaita", to name a few. However, in "huayno" and "carnavalito" this manipulation of eighth-sixteenth-sixteenth rhythmic grouping is the nucleus of how different groups and musicians interpret different songs, and it's incredibly fascinating how they play around with it without giving it any strict notions of rhythmic notation.

[@Symphonicrockfran]

THIS. Thanks for writing it

[@ariehchrem3067]

Came to say this!

[@AngelHadzi]

I assume that the differences between huayno, carnavalito, takirari, cumbia and cueca norteña, etc are a llitle difficult to understand from a gringo, even he is Adam Neely!

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

That's cool. I'm probably going to go into an internet rabbit hole about Andean music styles now.

[@a.p.5825]

@@AngelHadzi i doubt he has any trouble "understanding" it. Not knowing every nuance of every style of almost identical music is different from not being able to understand it. Kind of like if I said you Latinos have trouble understanding prepositions.

[@sergioruiz-mier9163]

That charango is played by Alfredo Coca, probably one of the greatest Bolivian folk musicians, well known for a collection of beautiful huayños, kaluyos, taquiraris, bailecitos, carnavalitos, cuecas and other jewels of Bolivian folklore. When he was young he had a group called Yerba Buena and has played with all the greats of our music, including Savia Andina. It is a great honor that Stromae has made this collaboration with him, but not a surprise.

[@arisssatto5552]

@@MrFOXSPY Yes it cuold be considered Andean music as much of our cultures overlap but Alfredo's composition not only is andean music but music from different regions from bolivia like the valleys or the amazonic side of the country. Not hate, all of our cultures are beautiful and deserve more recognition 🙌🏻

[@portisdead]

When I first heard the song my first thought was that it sounds like the beat is hesitant on when it’s supposed to hit, I love the way it sounds. Stromae is amazing!

[@fiscaldisco5234]

Fun fact from a Bolivian musician (and occasional Charango player): Traditional charangos were made with the shell of an armadillo (quirquincho) as the body of the instrument. It's since been outlawed because the animals are endangered, but a lot of them are now made of carved wood to look like an armadillo.

[@rodolfozanabria]

Amigo, una consulta! Utilizan el charango en las cumbias en Bolivia? Podrías indicar que canciones la utilizan por favor? Gracias!

[@fiscaldisco5234]

@@rodolfozanabria me imagino que hay algunas cumbias con charango pero no se me ocurre ningún ejemplo de antemano. El charango normalmente se lo usa en musica tipica boliviano como la Saya o Cueca. Por ejemplo la banda Los Kjarkas tocan ese tipo de musica, pero no es cumbia exactamente

[@rodrigomendozasalinas5458]

@@rodolfozanabria Puedes buscar Huayño Boliviano, pienso que se acerca mucho más al estilo de Santé de Estromae

[@christianlucano3221]

@@rodrigomendozasalinas5458 Es cierto, el huayño boliviano tiene el ritmo de la cumbia. Es un baile folclórico boliviano, y entre los instrumentos siempre aparece el charango

[@elicalalang-lacroix8673]

I’ve been thinking about the Santé rhythm for the last couple weeks and I’m so glad I don’t have to figure it out myself

[@roygalaasen]

Yeah, it is such a remarkable rhythm that I have been wondering about as well. Great to see mr. Neely covering the subject!

[@Excalibaard]

Neely doing us mere mortals a tremendous service

[@aidan574]

exactly why I asked lol it was breaking me

[@hanslevin]

It’s actually a traditional Andean Huayno rhythm as someone else already said.

[@HC3P]

I really thought it was the influence of Cape Verdean music, as Stromae mentioned before how much Cesária Evora's music had a great impact on his compositions

[@luna-pt2gp]

Eu sou cabo verdiana,adoro o Stromae e não sabia disso omdss!!

[@joshuamulvaney792]

@@luna-pt2gp look up his song Ave Cesaria. It’s a celebration of her life and an amazing song

[@guatagel2454]

You nailed it! That drag that you point is very common in cumbia. In fact, that drag is very appreciated and fuels the urge to dance the cumbia. You should hear "Bombón asesino" from "Los Palmeras", or "La danza del mirlo".

[@anameyoucantremember]

Nice explanation on Santé, being a LatAm citizen, it actually sounded extremely natural to me, nothing "wonky" about it. Been hearing that my whole life so I was like.. mm, what's wonky? That's a cumbia.

[@felipevazquez5593]

Exactly! I’m Mexican-American and I immediately wanted to dance it like a cumbia. The synth part reminds me of “Inténtalo” by 3ballMTY

[@cynzix]

Cumbia villera

[@Thehurricanejackie]

Brazilian here! Yeah, it feels strong like LatAm rhythm. Cumbia or something like that!

[@TheYayoii]

Right! I also heard nothing special, since I'm used to charango and cumbia

[@cynzix]

@@Thehurricanejackie it also reminds me of pagode a bit, since it sounds like a cavaquinho.

[@noriakijayasekara7936]

I was having a bad day until I heard that beautiful A=432 hz, the atoms in my body aligned, and i felt revolututionised, as the energy flew through my body, and the stars aligned, passing the light throught the vbeins in my body.

[@guilherme832]

Same

[@noriakijayasekara7936]

@@guilherme832 duidui, i feel like I am a better person after feeling the 432 hz energy in my veins

[@xp8969]

I always used to laugh at that stuff but hearing him play them both back to back like that just made it obvious how much better 432 really does sound 💯

[@Zer0Spinn]

I don't get it. If you detune the whole thing it should sound the same but lower, and I swear I hear it all weird. Sounds out of tune to me. Maybe my chakras are to messed up :(

[@kimemia_maina]

Just as the prophecy foretold...

[@paulmeers4974]

"Perfectly natural" to a charango player...yes, but definitely learned by a lifetime of "feeling" it. This kind of microrhythmic expressiveness happens a lot around the world including those wonkiness hesitations in Viennese waltzes. THANKS FOR noticing and explaining how it happens - in a digital environment no less...

[@jonasll]

Adam - Thought you may appreciate the context - Stromae is pronounced Stro-MAH-EEE, or Strom-Hi (without the H sound). It actually is verlan for Maestro (Mae-stro becomes stro-mae). Verlan is a form of argot or slang in French that consists of changing the order of the syllables, but still reading the word forward (as opposed to strict letter reversal). And now I'll show myself out :)

[@cooldebt]

Interesting. Like The Gotan Project?

[@jonasll]

@@cooldebt that's right!

[@potkettle]

I remember this weird moment living in France when I asked myself "so what's verlan for verlan", and then went, "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh...."

[@gaetanofrangella]

dont leave! lol

[@goldflo91]

Basically, it'd be like "Sterma" being the verlan of "Master", simply by inverting the syllables

[@Safariminer]

For 'em non-french-speaking folks out there: "Santé" means health. During the song, Stromae repeats the phrase "À ceux qui n'en n'ont pas" which means "to those who don't have one". One what? Both health, and both a glass(un verre). Stromae celebrates those who don't celebrate to protect the health of others.

[@MinorCirrus]

Furthermore, "santé" is one of the ways French and Belgian people toast (an equivalent to "cheers", "prost", "nasdarovia" and so on), hence the connection to the glasses. And I guess that drifting beat is supposed to reflect either drunkenness or a bitterness to the celebration. Knowing the guy, it's probably both and a third thing I haven't thought of yet.

[@user-ip2gr7zj3r]

This translation is rough in a way that borders on... wrong. Santé does mean health, but like MinorCirrus mentions, it's more used here in the sense of "Cheers!"/"A toast!" Likewise, "en" is probably better translated as "any," since it's used as a pronoun for phrases that begin with "de". In French, for indefinite quantities of something, you would say "J'ai de la chance" to mean I am lucky/I have luck. The full phrase "de la chance" can be replaced with "en" and turned negative, "J n'en ai pas." I don't have any (luck)". For things that aren't abstract: J'ai mangé du riz (I ate some rice); Je n'en ai pas mangé (I didn't eat any) Since he doesn't specify what it is they don't have, "en" has the benefit here of indicating an entire class of "have-nots" - it's not a toast to those who don't have "one health" or "a glass," but rather a toast to those who "don't have any", "who have not", "who go without." This also makes sense when he discusses "celebrating those who don't celebrate," and considering the rest of the lyrics try to contrast the roles of working class servants to celebrating wealthy

[@kayukthebruh5601]

who asked

[@user-ip2gr7zj3r]

@@kayukthebruh5601 80 ppl found a reply w a translation helpful. Seems pretty clear that those same 80 people would find it helpful if that translation were actually correct

[@kayukthebruh5601]

@@user-ip2gr7zj3r cringe

[@pablob.m.7746]

Livro by Caetano Veloso is such a rich album in musical concepts like fusions of textures, irregular song structures, micro rhythms, fresh variations on old rhythms and so on...

[@elguaripolo686]

It is so weird to watch you analize such a common rythm to us latinos… and a song in spanish awesome lol

[@hussamalkaissi4453]

I am very familiar with that rhythm, it is called "Heiwa" or "haywa" in Iraq. As someone who is trained in both traditional arabic and classic western music, I tried using it before, but found difficulty in notating it, as most of these "elastic" rhythms and other nuance of traditional music are passed through generations verbally without systematic documentation. Thanks for talking about it, and glad to see other cultures use that rhythm too, humans are connected by music!

[@betoacv]

I'm sorry, my friend, there may be a similar rhythm in Iraq, but that is Andean music and very probably Bolivian.

[@phlubblebubble]

@@betoacv Who says it can't be the same rhythm? Convergent evolution as they say. I'm sure the *style* sounds pretty different, but I've heard some Dabke that basically sounds like mejwiz solo over a Reggaeton beat despite the styles not being at all related.

[@jamilaalosi1080]

Exactly I said it it has Somali Ethiopia tunes not Bolivien

[@jamilaalosi1080]

Like the dancing in Sante is Ethiopian

[@emiliepilot3987]

to me it sounds like Mauritian sega's rythm

[@egress99]

I love that 64th delay. That stuttered step followed by the “pull” to catch up…love it.

[@yuribock4392]

I love this song and I so appreciate the technical breakdown of this as a non musical person! So creative 💚

[@ziizification]

Thank you for turning me on to Stromae my mind is BLOWN. The combination of clear homage and musical knowledge with precise embrace of electronica is just YUMMY.

[@pedrozzbb]

Hi Adam! I was wondering... Did you figure out those microrhythmic variations in Santé by ear? Or did Stromae disclose that information? Because that was super impressive

[@OAmus]

was wondering the same!

[@u1zha]

Perhaps by measuring onset times in software, and guessing/fitting subdivisions that they compute as

[@cockur]

If you're familiar with playing around with the quantize settings from any DAW or the swing/microtiming settings on many drum machines and groove boxes you will have come across stuff like this many times. It's a well known set of features on Elektron drum machines and samplers for example. If you haven't heard of any of these then it is worth looking in to. Program some simple drum patterns and then play around with applying various groove/quantize/microtiming settings.

[@grungus935]

Thank you for treating our musical culture with respect and appreciation, Adam habibi. My advice to the person who asked the question would be to go deep into the music of the Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan and even North India. Most 'tourists' in the music of our part of the world start with (say) Fairuz or Umm Kulthum and don't really move much past that. Great places to start certainly, but it helps not only to try to break it down and emulate it, but also to look at the nuances. How is Umm Kulthum's Egyptian music similar/different to Moroccan sha'abi? How does it compare to Iranian radif music? What happens in the limits of this musical continent, e.g. in Afghanistan where Iranian music meets Hindustani music? Most importantly, meet musicians from that region and interact with and learn from them. We're all very proud of the thousands of years of musical tradition we've inherited, and would love nothing more than to share it with others.

[@phoebelim4941]

@@ichi5974 Following this thread cos I would love to know too

[@grungus935]

​@@phoebelim4941 I usually recommend people start by listening to orchestral Arabic pop from the 60s and 70s - Umm Kulthum, Fairuz, Abdelhalim Hafez, Mohammed Abdelwahab, as well as more recent singers like Lena Chamamyan. This is specifically because it uses orchestral instruments and is designed to crossover with Western music in a way. It's a good way to get used to aspects of the region's music without being immediately overwhelmed. You could dive deeper into the Arabic tradition by looking at Iraqi maqam and Andalusi nubah, which are (more or less) the classical/court traditions of the Eastern and Western Arab worlds respectively. Munir Bashir's oud would be a good starting point on the deeper stuff. In the Iranian case, folk music by musicians like Sima Bina, the Kamkars and Rastak are a good place to start - super traditional in terms of tonality and instrumentation, but as its folk music, it's designed to have a broad appeal. Iran once again has its own classical traditions of which there's many stellar performers like Kayhan Kalhor, Hossein Alizadeh...

[@grungus935]

@@phoebelim4941 For North Indian classical my goto recs as a starting point will always been Ravi Shankar's first album (I believe self-titled) - the man was famous for a reason. Equally justifiable in his fame would be Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan who sings in the Sufi qawwali style. Both of these musicians have a wider appeal and the energy of the music makes it an easy listen.

[@blackbirddocumentaries]

I'm so glad you made a video explaining this. I shared this track around telling people about the stumbling, strange, cool beat and I was really hoping for someone to do a breakdown analysis. Thanks! I am glad you explained the literal timing. Really interesting.

[@Kalouv]

Nice mentioning Caetano

[@TheHatMusic]

That Stromae tune is really impressive, but there's something about that feeling of the drums sitting out of the beat that feels so profoundly uneasy, kinda like the skin crawling feeling of squeaking polystyrene.

[@Vandarera]

Yes! Exactly! I don't hate the song; it's real groovy. But the off-beat-ness bothers my brain, tbh 😓

[@piccolaradge8333]

it actually MAKES the song for me , but yeah „off-beats“ aren’t everyone’s cup of tea wouldn’t recommend listening to artists like fka twigs or James Blake 😅

[@SirArthurTheGreat]

@@piccolaradge8333 JB’s off-kilter rhythms usually feel less awkward to me than this song

[@judithjanneck1719]

It kind of describes the world. We're a bit off at the moment. I like it.

[@dot_frost]

You know what's weird? Being from Latin America it feels totally natural to me, nothing uneasy

[@LucaPasini]

There's an Italian trio called Ottone Pesante (literally Heavy Brass) composed of a trombonist, a trumpet player and a drummer that play metal music, and they're really good at it. They even released album inspired by different sub-genres of metal, such as death and doom.

[@FluxTrax]

Check out Yodok

[@fernandofernandez3890]

I can't believe nobody has mention Brass Against

[@JonathanDeLaRivacastillo]

Friend, the Charango comes from the Peruvian-Bolivian culture. It's also used in Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, and other countries in the Latin American highlands. However, this rhythm that Stromae created is more Peruvian-Bolivian. Even the charango was played by the Bolivian "Alfredo Coca." This isn't cumbia; the rhythm is Latin American folklore. You could say it's the Saya rhythm, a folk dance shared by these countries in Latin America. The piano he incorporated could be said to have hints of Southern cumbia, which is also native to the highlands in Latin America. The cumbia you mentioned there, when compared to the charango, sounds very different from what Stromae did in "Santé." It's completely different; the rhythm is Folklore. Especially for me, as a Peruvian, it was exciting because I've been following Stromae for many years. It's truly beautiful to see how he fused our culture with electronic music. I hope this information is helpful. Greetings from a Peruvian!

[@alepau29]

This ^^^ Instantly thought of Peruvian folklore when I first heard this song. Even in his dance moves.

[@Flash6Master6Lee]

Thank you so much for this! I knew that was something funky delay in the rhythm that I thought was so cool in Santé and it's great to see that broken down and explained!

[@okayfine6342]

13:53 you did answer the question in the historical sense, but you could have done better to mention why it is that way. you generally want to avoid parallel 5ths/octaves in baroque styles because the style places a lot of emphasis on the simultaneous movement of multiple lines. if you write in parallel 5ths/octaves for more than a short period of time, they don't tend to sound like independent lines, but mix together and sound like one bc of how closely related 5ths and octaves are to unsions in the overtone series

[@methatis3013]

That being said, they are allowed when they aren't noticable: that being when they are in the middle voices (alto and tenor) and they are only moving by a second

[@lesavdesabonnes]

Same about jazz with rhythm guitar, avoid to double the root and 5th. (Sometime the fifth is missing) Some of rythm jazzmen plays few notes (sometime only 2, not a powerchord...) as a chord and intentionally don't play some notes for don't limited the solist (to avoid tonal preferences or creat a possible dissonances).

[@Whatismusic123]

@@methatis3013 I've never heard of that and it seems like a very specific allowance to make harmony easier for students in whatever conservatory you attended, but you need to interrupt paralell fifths and octaves so that they sound independent, you cannot hide them, as the point is to seperate the voices, not to trick you into thinking there are no paralell perfect consonances

[@methatis3013]

@@Whatismusic123 it's not really a "specific allowance", it's just what was noticed to be relatively often in classical composers' work. And even many composers broke those "rules" when the voice leading would result in beautiful melodies. All of those rules need to be taken with a grain of salt and should be looked at as more of guidelines rather than rules.

[@bada---]

Adam using Los Palmeras as a rythmic example is something I never expected to see but it was mind-blowing 😂 Greetings from Argentina!🇦🇷

[@tinxh]

aaeeeaaa yo soy sabalerooo

[@hase.von.b]

Mal! no me lo esperaba ni a palo

[@abarovero]

Si te fijás bien, atrás en el mueble, entre el vinilo de Ornette Coleman y el doble de Duke Ellington está el segundo de Pibes Chorros

[@marianabeatriz5351]

@@abarovero escupí el café

[@abarovero]

@@marianabeatriz5351 es una orden?

[@MoontouchedOwlBeast]

I am a Charango player who has studied South American music for many years. This piece is in the Style of a Huayno which is a slow ballad. The eight-sixteenth rhythm is what an instrument named - Bombo Legüero plays in an Andean band. The accent and emphases is always on the and of the beats, and the rhythm of the 16ths is uneven because it’s a folk style of music. Although similar to Cumbia, or actually stems from Andean bands, and Huayno styles from Perú and Bolivia

[@stephaniemoura9325]

As a Brazilian, the rhythm actually sounds very, very familiar to me! Similar to sounds we listen to in the north of Brasil Edit: and I think it is a masterpiece! The melody and lyrics together are just amazing! ❤

[@crunchy-roll]

"It's like saying trombone is illegal in metal." I absolutely lost it.

[@jonasgomes3776]

this kind of rythm is actualy very common in my country (Cabo Verde), and western africa in general. Stromae publicly praised cape verdean music several time in interviews, he even wrote a song as an "hommage" to cesaria evora, a famous cape verdean singer. his ex girlfriend is also capeverdean. So I think the inspiration is from there.

[@Feliciations]

Yes! Totally agree with you here.

[@OnkelJajusBahn]

Absolutely. I immediately had to think of Cabo Verde when hearing that song.

[@ruthjoy3315]

👍That makes sense! .... The sound immediately reminded me of Cesaria Evora and also Mayra Andrade, both Cape verdean artists...... But Cumbia? 🤔 .... Not so much!

[@ValdaXD]

It's a huayño

[@gandalfthegrey2171]

Me toooo!! I love love love Cesaria Evora, also Lura - fantastic musicians.

[@chocinspired]

I have no clue about what you're saying but just in awe on the depth to which you diescted those cords. Wonderful

[@user-zf8pp5gn2r]

i love how you oversimplify the fugue but still have it make sense and be a pretty good description

[@bipbipletucha]

In my opinion the second Stairway chord should be expressed as Am9maj7/G#, because it's essentially a passing chord with a chromatic bassline between Am and Am7/G, and maintains the "A minor sound" to my ears.

[@charliewhelan9488]

Defo sounds like a minormaj7 so 100% agree

[@PatrickWHerrmann]

This is what it sounds like to me 100%

[@borekworek69]

I agree

[@markop.1994]

I think its an ever rare use of the III7 chord of A harmonic minor. Which is another way of saying what adam did callin it Cmaj7#5 Also there is no A in the chord so its not A minor-maj7 sorry i will die on this hill

[@YearsOfLeadPoisoning]

I’d argue it’s closer to a Gm7/A#susB/Bm9

[@ski5429]

To me, that second chord in stairway feels much more like a C aug chord bc then it’s acting as the mediant augmented chord in minor, which has a dominant function. So rather than it kinda being a weird E chord, it’s just a really cool and rare use of a bIII+ chord, which is super cool to see!

[@pianoteacher8302]

These rhytms, be it from Brazil, Bolivia, Colombia etc. are often said to be impossible to write down, and that you absotutely will have to "feel" them instead. Well, for those whishing a musical approach here's how it can be done (2/2-time): eighth-note/dotted eighth-note/dotted eighth-note (two times each bar). Those are the - let's say - accents of this rhythm, and in order to fill in a fourth "event" to it you will have to divide the first dotted eighth-note into sixteenth-note plus eighth-note. Works perfectly, and I got this from Mario de Andrade, a brazilian author/writer/musicologist who wrote this down some hundred (yes: hundred!) years ago -- !

[@danielponder690]

this is a great video and a much more detailed theory understanding compared to some videos on here, thank you for this!

[@Mr.Nobody-420]

30 different keys are most common, but technically you can have up to 42 different keys if you account for the sharps, flats, and naturals of all 7 notes (from A to G). So for example A# major (which goes, A# B# C## D# E# F## G##) has 10 sharps in it.

[@borekworek69]

That's why meaning of life = 42

[@HieronymousLex]

A# major is just Bb major

[@Mr.Nobody-420]

@@HieronymousLex Yes, but it is written differently

[@theneonpact9496]

Hearing Bach played on that sine wave type instrument (5:40) really made me realize how inspired the early Pokemon soundtracks are by J.S. Bach. Good stuff.

[@harleystafford2424]

I like your outlook on knowing music theory to being able to write music, good insight adam!!

[@amydebuitleir]

So glad you covered this! It's been driving me crazy.

[@EpreTroll]

10:00 agreed. I have always learned in our/my own way. I still wanna understand this code used for chords tho. I have no clue beyond major/minor, what what is called

[@timmyc9915]

I’m gonna pretend that I understand what you said.

[@philtree5668]

@@timmyc9915 10:00 concurred. Individuals of homo sapiens sapiens have perpetually digested external information using methods unique to each individual. He currently still has the desire to learn music theory, specifically the current system in place for describing chords as he does not possess the knowledge of what most chords are called, beyond major and minor chords

[@xtzyshuadog]

@@philtree5668 how *woefully esoteric*

[@SquahBrackah_M_SquahBrackah]

omg are you the one who made those undertale piano covers? I feel fortunate to encounter you

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

@@philtree5668 I am about to act so as to make it appear that I correctly perceive the words that have been uttered by you.

[@benbrill7828]

At 7:04 you say "the other guy from Tribal Tech" and this supports my "Other Guy" theory. It states: in any group of skilled artists there will always be one who is named "the other guy". Examples include Garfunkle, the guitarist from Rush, George Harrison, Woody Goss of Vulfpeck, ect.

[@ryankimbrell4760]

Love to see the Tribal Tech shoutout!! Studying and playing with Gary as an instructor was a time in my life where I learned more than I could ever imagine.

[@OopsAllFrench]

To me, the elasticity helps make it danceable by any person as it’s almost impossible to get “off-beat” when the song emphasizes all the smaller fractions of music 💃🏻🕺🏻it works to make an anthem for those he’s hoping it reaches - the working labor class that will be made up of dancers, off-beat, musical, & arhythmic people of every kind!

[@unic0de-yvr]

The "major/minor vamp" song that comes to mind first for me, is Sneaker Pimps' 'Six Underground'. Thank you for doing Santé! As soon as I heard that tune for the first time I was like "oh no, I need Adam Neely for this"

[@RodrigoMalvidoMusic]

Honestly, for me the Stromae tune feels a lot more like it was influenced by Carnavalito rather than Cumbia. Carnavalito not only has that weight and elasticity to the rhythm but some of the melodic rhythms are common to that type of music. Not only that but charango is usually used in Carnavalito as well. Carnavalito is folklore to a bunch of different Andean countries so you could say it has a Peruvian/Bolivian/Northern Argentine influence.

[@juanmanuelmiguez5948]

Esto quería leer !!

[@JeauschtBeekman]

I thought it was a cavaquinho like what was used in Ave Cesaria, but I'm in no way knowledgeable enough in that area of music.

[@RodrigoMalvidoMusic]

@@JeauschtBeekman Cavaquinho is Brazilian, you'd find it in stuff like choro or chorinho. This is undoubtably a charango. Think of Peruvian pan flute music and it's that little tiny guitar.

[@m.fernandagallegosp.4061]

YES! Distinctively from the Andes. Ecuadorian, Peruvian and Bolivian highlands have charango in folkloric music, almost always. And it's not weird, as the title of this video suggests...

[@Symphonicrockfran]

This is the comment I was looking for

[@folkrav]

I've seen and played with orchestras and choirs as a classically trained pianist, decent time as metal head, some time hanging around in local venues... All to say, I've seen so many shows at this point, but Stromae's has to be amongst the best ones. And his music is wild and pretty damn varied.

[@saitodosan9377]

You know, maybe the answer to "the second chord to Stairway?" is just that "sometimes musicians do something that doesn't have a name or follow any music theory conventions but they just felt like "yeah this is cool" when they wrote it." Pretty much Yes's members Steve Howe and Chris Squire in a nutshell...especially in the early days.

[@31pas0]

Dude, it's not about how musicians who wrote that chord named it or came up with, it's about how this chord is called according to music theory. If you throw a rock and some force pull it towards the ground, it doesn't mean this force ha no name, even if you don't know it.

[@saitodosan9377]

@@31pas0 But my point is that sometimes there are things done in music, especially the super progressive bands like Yes, where it doesn't really fall into any "conventional" (Western) music theory labelling, not just that "they would do stuff but not know what it's called." They'd do stuff that people who ONLY think in the mindset of conventional music theory wouldn't even think of or would struggle naming or whatever because sometimes things just don't fall within that realm, which by the way is a very "Western fundamentalist" way of thinking to be honest. Very useful yes, but very Western. I was NOT simply saying that "this is a music theory chord but people don't know the name of it." I was saying "sometimes things CAN'T be thought of from a traditional music theory mindset."

[@31pas0]

@@saitodosan9377 what does this all woke stuff has to do with “stairway2heaven” 2nd chord according to “conventional” music theory? It feels like somebody’s trying to measure a wall with a ruler in centimeters, you come and say “you know, centimeters are a fundamentalist unit if measurement. In some other countries people measure distance in heads per assеs..” cool story, bro. But we’re measuring in centimeters now.

[@saitodosan9377]

@@31pas0 Look man idc anymore and none of that stuff you're spitting makes no sense to me so see ya have a happy new year. No animosity from me!

[@thestagerocks]

It's easier to learn theory than it is to "just learn to put cool things together". Also, analyzing that second chord is very easy to do. Just ask the bass.

[@mntnwzrd66]

Music theory gives us a set of options of 'where to go from here' when composing, and even when improvising. It's like a crib sheet of options we know will sound good. I learned to play in an open tuning on guitar, which I recognize now as like learning on a slide rule, with an instrument that generates options to try.

[@carbonmonoxide5052]

A good start for Middle Eastern music would be looking into flamenco and klezmer, which are both kind of combinations of Middle Eastern and European music and use scales like harmonic minor and phrygian dominant a lot.

[@billsallak4887]

Great video-and as long as two-chord static/non-static vamps are in the air, shout out to Metheny's Phase Dance, where the guide tones are common between Bm7 and Bbmaj7 and the root and fifth oscillate chromatically. Thanks again!

[@BigButtPaperWings]

this is my "travelling trough France" song :D it played when we were driving somewhere on countryside on the radio and we found it so different and awesome at the same time!

[@GrantDolanMusic]

The “fuzzy cord” idea is how I taught myself music theory. When I went into college it was just putting the common names to ideas that I had already experimented with which put me well advanced of my classmates.

[@malcelinho]

Even though I already know Adam have his share of brazilian music knowledge, always brings a smile to my face when he mentions some of my artistic countrymen (sometimes with songs I don't even knew)

[@raq1205]

One of the things that drew me to this song in the first place was the familiarity -- it sounds like Bolivian music. I immediately recognized the charango being played in the beginning. Maybe "weird" to some foreigners, but clearly this comment section is very familiar with it!

[@curseuchris]

THank you! been waiting for this explaination

[@ryanspercussion]

re: second stairway chord? when i heard it i initially just looked at it as a passing chord, the dominant-ness of the chord certainly gives the chord the feeling that it has, but yeah voice leading is sick i know y'all probably already know this but i just think it's cool

[@markop.1994]

Its the III7 chord of A harmonic minor. Or as adam put it Cmaj7#5. Its like a false dominant, the C as the root and B as the vocal note makes a lovely Maj7 sound which the rest of the notes be like a fancy augmented hat for that maj7 moment. It simultaneously allows that chromatic line in the intro as well as setting up that the song is going to be mostly A C D and G chords (not B) Idk how much thought they as artists put into this moment, but this is my interpretation of what their ears be doin.

[@headlessnotahorseman]

It makes more sense if you look at it on the sheet music. The whole intro is just the top lines and bottom lines following a straight path with another musical bit in the middle. Thinking about it as a chord seems the wrong way to go about it, even though you could come up with a bunch of different chord names. It seems like it would make more sense to think of it as 3 separate melodic lines played on top of each other.

[@micawinsett1450]

I always thought of it as AmMaj9. The movement of the progression is similar to the one used by The Beatles in the chorus of “Something” (“Don’t want to leave her now…”).

[@markop.1994]

@@micawinsett1450 aint no A in the chord tho (in the zeppelin example, idk about the beatles) As a guitarist i get why, but like... by the logic of how triads work its deff not an A chord

[@5pqrt5t3r6]

@@micawinsett1450 I don't know where the confusion comes from here. Your answer is right and, I think, obvious. Except I'm not sure the symbol is right. I think it should be Amin9(Maj7) or maybe Amin maj7 add9. And it's a rootless voicing. Again I don't get what the debate is all about, I'm no theory expert, but that's what the chord is. It's the "James Bond" chord.

[@AngelSantiago66]

I never thought Adam would ever talk about cumbias. Now that he has, my life just got better. Greetings from Mexico, home to Los Ángeles Azules, a great cumbia band

[@parishadnz.6048]

..same here, when he talked about persian music:-)

[@leofu97]

In classical theory the second chord to Stairway would either just have a 6-5 suspension in a V chord as Adam called it or it can be called a "voice-leading chord" since it just follows the chromatic descending motion in the bass (continued after the second chord as well), which since the 17th century is often called the "Lamento bass" or "passus duriusculus" (engl. ~ "the hard path"), which is supposed to symbolize suffering and grief.

[@dannooooooo]

best song writing duo's ive ever been in and seen involve 1 person with a high level of theory knowledge, and 1 person with next to no knowledge but is self taught on an instrument. Someone with no theory is much more free to just write what they think sounds good and figure out interesting ways of doing things, and a person with theory can make sense of it. There is a fear among some songwriters that if they learn theory it will change how they write, and from my experience, sadly, it is true. But only for a time. You will learn things and think that now you write better music when you dont, it might have complex ideas you understand but that doesn't mean its better, or that your old stuff wasn't doing something interesting and you just didnt know it. But with enough time and thought you can bring the 2 together, and while you may never be the same song writer, i think its better to evolve and grow. But I still sometimes critique myself for having a simple chord, when before if I thought it sounded good then i was happy

[@ReignCharger]

Great answer on the Middle east question, it's oftentimes frustrating to hear western musicians ignorantly interact with other culture's muscial world's.

[@TheoEvian]

It isn't only about west-east distinction, people generally know very little about what is "out there". Like Moravian folklore sounds nothing like Bohemian folklore and the fact that Moravian folklore uses Moravian modulation (see Leoš Janáček) and the duvaj rythm should make it non-western in the "just use major scale" theory? :D And we are talking about two generalisations of two diverse regional traditions in one mid sized country in Europe (Czechia). Of course, farther you get typically more bastardised your understanding of it gets but like really, people typically don't even know that much about their own country, region, tradition and then they are trying ignorantly implementing it.

[@jossspear]

Another lovely piece that uses the Imaj7 Im7 chord changes is the second movement of Kabalevsky Cello Concerto no 1. Really pulls on the heart strings!

[@EMxM3]

You've grown alot!! Big up to you man!

[@rr201085]

LOOOOL. the most humoristic of your vids i saw (i saw only 5 or more).

[@BenjaminHernandez23]

People in the rest of the world: WOW! what an exotic rhythm!! what an invention!! People from Latin America: 😐

[@gryd3461]

right?

[@voroldrwarfff8858]

same for africa m8

[@dacoconutnut9503]

LMAO

[@lucasrreboucas]

Hahahaha That’s it!

[@AngelHadzi]

That Rhythm came to Latin America through African slaves..so is african and latino at the same time

[@SomethingCleverAndOriginal]

Thanks Adam, I picked up a bass guitar in part because of you and it's now like the main thing in my life. Thanks!

[@lilisommerfeld]

The fact alone, that you play EVERYTHING you say about music theory simultaniously on a piano in the background makes your videos more valuable than my entire high school music education (Like at 9:30 min). And I went to a school with a special music program in Germany, that was probably more heavily funded than most music ecudation programs in the world.

[@Iliketurtlesupmybum]

I’m so glad I found this video, I couldn’t put words onto what I was hearing to explain to someone!!!

[@gleedads]

Additionally, on the "how many keys are there" question... There are musical traditions outside of the European tradition that use entirely different scales, with the tones and semitones differently arranged from how they are in major and minor scales (and even different from the other European modes, Lydian, Phrygian, etc.). So...if by "key" we mean "major and minor key as defined by European scales" then I agree with the answer of "roughly 30" or "at least 30". But if by "key" we mean "sequence of tone intervals that we can use to construct melodies" then the answer must be far larger than that. This might be stretching the meaning of key, since these are entirely different tonal/modal/whatever systems. So maybe that isn't the correct terminology. Any professional or amateur ethnomusicologists want to chime in on a more correct terminology?

[@AdamFaruqi]

It's a meaningless question with a meaningless answer. There are an infinite number of frequencies one could base a scale off of, and an infinite number of scales built off of an infinite variety of intervals.

[@edderiofer]

I'm not an ethnomusicologist and I know only a little music theory, but I agree. If the Ionian and Aeolian modes count as two different scales, then so should the other five modes of the diatonic scale, making the answer "roughly 105". And if we're counting those, then I see no reason to exclude non-diatonic scales, like the Hungarian major/minor scales, the Chinese pentatonic scales or Arabic maqamat; and if we include the quarter-tone intervals of the maqamat, we may as well include microtonal scales like 313edo; and at that point we should just throw in the towel and say that any set of musical tones ordered by frequency counts as a scale.

[@Zawiedek]

You're right, there is some blurring at the edges - is it still a key or is it a scale? Personally, I'd love to use "keys" like D harmonic minor with a bb and c# right a the beginning of the score, but that's hard for most music score programs ...

[@Wishuponapancake]

@@edderiofer Scales aren't keys, is the issue here, someone made that mistake in that video with wooten lol He's specifically talking about the keys of music in like, sheet music

[@edderiofer]

@@Wishuponapancake Whoops, you're right, I forgot that the question was about keys and not scales.

[@joshuabroyles7565]

13:25 If someone finds it hard to get started, I can suggest using one 5-tone scale over both chords; 1,2,#4,5,6. The #4 will sound less clumsy against the minor chord than the other 4 will sound against the major chord. Once that feels solid, you can use if as wallpaper for foreground objects that emphasize the shifts between the 3rds and the 7ths.

[@rosamgarciagrecia]

The Santé rhythm formula really reminded me of "Porque Nos Da La Gana" by Sudor Marika - the slighly-rushed snares form what to me is a kind-of-impossible (?) rhythmic puzzle, which otherwise works perfectly!

[@GiorgiMamaladze]

One of the best video clips ive ever seen for a song

[@mimipipi120]

Thank you for this! I have a really good ear and I kept telling people around me that something felt "off" in this song, like something was like a half tempo behind in someway. I'm not musically instructed so i don't know the official words or stuff. And no one else heard it, so I'm so happy you made this music!!!

[@jgsky]

Very very informative video!! Thank you so much!!

[@purity7575]

hey dude i’ve never seen you before, 1 mil subs, turned your master tune to 432, idk how you’ve never popped up before but that was amazing feels like i found my people, great work

[@pablosorbara2280]

6:30 Schubert's impromptu in E flat modulates to C flat minor on the B section (although editors usually notate it in B minor). C minor has 3 flats, flattening the key adds 7 more flats for a total of, you would say, 10 flats.

[@XFC856]

The Stromae rhythm reminded me of a drunk rhythm.. particularly matching with the title Santé

[@axelmorisson]

he was going for that :)

[@fkkmag8692]

Im hooked on this song, I just love this kind of sounds!

[@zuskajack]

Great explanation! Love it!

[@AlefSousa017]

Oh wow, wasn't expecting to see a Caetano Veloso's song in it! He's one of our biggest cherished treasures here in Brazil!

[@AngelHadzi]

in Argentina is also considered a living god..

[@trickpeso]

9:13 "can you write music if you don't know music theory" Well absolutely yes I started writing songs since I began to play the guitar. The main purpose for me has always been to create something mine. And so I did. Now that I'm starting to learn theory I found out that i wrote a song in A Lydian and another one in E major using inversion and other stuff that I didn't know the name of. It's all in your ear. If it sounds satisfying and good you can definitely write music without knowing music theory :)

[@dj-wizzy]

I think thinking too much about theory can bog you down as well, music is feelings at the end of the day, and you can think about those feelings in retrospect, but feeling the music is the first step to writing it, theory is like annotation to remember it. That's just IMO though!

[@DieezahArts]

Some of the greatest musicians/songwriters/composers either had zero music theory knowledge, had a limited knowledge of it/couldn't read or write music notation... The notion that one MUST learn or master it (you can study it and still not be able to do anything with it) seems to come from a gate-keeping elitist mentality rooted in class privilege.

[@drdemi]

i would kill for a course on micro rhythm from adam.

[@vice.nor.virtue]

Wow I gave my dad a Victor Wuttone album [he's a bassist] like 8 years ago. His existence was so abstract I never thought I'd see him referenced in your amazing voxxy music channel!

[@trentvalentine9]

I've been working on a track I've been considering simplifying and playing straight because the rhythm gets a 16th off like this Stomae track and it sounds kind of sweaty/tryhard but this gave me more confidence to just go with what I wrote

[@petersontaylor2000]

Hey, Adam! have you heard about an amazon rhythm called Carimbó? Maybe this explains Stromae's Santé better? I'm originally from this region near Marajó Island (my dad's birthplace) in Brazil and I think it sounds a little bit like it to me and it's actually a very well known music style around there. what you think? Nice content as always! Cheers!

[@Azuuraas]

o carimbó também tem bastante influência da cumbia, mas tem uma comunidade grande de bolivianos na Bélgica (onde o Stromae mora).

[@jan_kulawa]

The "just use the major scale!" analogy is so funny but also so genuinely enlightening and didactic that I'm gonna shamelessly apply it whenever someone tries this kind of cultural reductionism of "foreign culture" ("foreign" to north-americans and western europeans, that is) to a stereotypical caricature of it. Thanks!

[@AMTunLimited]

It's probably because you played them back to back, but the second piano really did feel out of tune, far more so than I would have expected

[@jada90]

It's 100% because he played them back to back, even with some overlap. By the time he got to the end of the phrase your ears should have already started adjusting and the resolution should've felt nice - definitely if he continued for another bar or two you'd feel that the piano was perfectly in tune (which it is).

[@LangKuoch]

Hey! Fun fact, but I also just wanted to point out that Stromae is actually pronounced like "stro-mai". It's just a reversal of the ordering of the syllables in the word "maestro". I've seen a lot of people mispronouncing it recently (I think Jimmy Fallon gets it wrong too) from the way it's spelled, but once you know it's just maestro with its syllables switched, the pronunciation makes a lot more sense. Hoped that helps, cheers!

[@adrienrenaux6211]

When even french people weren't able to say it, I just gave up on hope lol

[@rebmcr]

Different accents render the pronounciation of "maestro" in both ways anyway.

[@LangKuoch]

@@rebmcr Hm, do you happen to know which accents in particular? Not challenging you, just genuinely curious (I have a background in linguistics so this sort of thing piques my interest). I can't think of any accent in English where maestro isn't pronounced like /maɪstɹoʊ/. I have heard individual people say /meɪstɹoʊ/ (e.g. may-stro), but this is usually an idiosyncratic production error from people having learned the word through reading it before actually having heard it. In any case, the original French pronunciation is /maɛstʁo/ so that will take care of any ambiguity there 😅

[@adrienrenaux6211]

It's an Italian word, the best pronunciation is the italian one