What is the ACTUAL cost of LITHIUM batteries (LiFePO4) and should you install them on your boat???

[@merchfan]

I appreciate Sean’s no-bullshit, to the point, informed explanations. Detailed, but not condescending.

[@Aceman597]

Have ourboards . Tried lithuim only to save weight. Pulled them off cause charging system was erratically 13.2 to 19 volts. I even bought ones made for marine use. I think they were shutting off with built in bms. Boat volts steady now with my new lead acids back in . Maybe try my lithuims on a solar project or diesel truck. I think with regular alternator they will be fine.

[@bobhamilton298]

I’m glad you pointed out some of the reasons not to go lithium. I buy Walmart deep cycle batteries for about $100 a piece and they last about 4 years. Actually very good lead acids by National Battery. I don’t take care of the batteries and my boat for the most part is indeed a dock queen. I use a mini solar charger to keep them topped off for the bilge pump that pumps about 1-2 times a day. Use them for engine cranking on a finicky diesel. Could not be happier. Feel that I would ruin lithiums in just a year or two and having 2 $100 batteries just makes more sense for me. Good video.

[@CombatDoc54]

This video just gave me a reason to live another 10 years. In 10 years I'll be 78 and be able to watch you all change the Lithium batteries again.

[@chrisbishop4934]

Great video , I was going to convert our N46 to lithium , but then we moved back east. So watching you guys in Gig Harbor made me miss the spring in PNW Keep cruising and doing the great videos !! Cheers

[@richardsmith4187]

Elizabeth & Shawn Your Q&A regarding the new batteries was very interesting. The two of you always look at a situation and make the best logical decision to get the job done ! Shawn is very methodical in his research and driven to do the very best job on every project. It amazes me the wealth of knowledge both of you have obtained by living aboard Freedom, and I don't think there are many problems Shawn can't solve with a little thought, research and planning ! Talking about AGM batteries and cold weather, you know Florida is always ..... calling LOL. Great video, have a nice Sunday and take care !

[@dog11222]

Not a cheap upgrade, but a very sensible one. Some good info there..

[@ronward146]

Great video and much appreciated break-down of these batteries. Certainly better than the old school 8D acid filled banks. One and done, no fuss no muss...thank you

[@EEB-qp3kn]

The best real world, knowledgeable owner, analysis of the cost comparison of LiPe 04 vs. AGM replacement i have seen in the 2 years that the replacement debate has been raging. Thank you for a clear concise evaluation.

[@randybourdon2791]

I’ll never own a boat because I just follow you guys wherever you go. Great video and thanks for taking me along!

[@samhklm]

Since your battery life is now 3x you are also saving the cost / time of two battery swaps as well. Excellent summary.

[@viahj]

Love the mix of vibes and creativity of your videos since you have emerged from the weirdness of 2021.

[@michaelhill7471]

Great “down and dirty”! Also, I felt Shawn was a “tech” guy but to see he knows his way around machining also was cool.

[@FriendM2010]

Wow, getting baby Orca learning to fly was awesome... 👍 Boat Unit, I have a few hobbies that share a similar unit. 🥴

[@ccswede]

What a teaser. Now we see you operating a milling machine. That takes a little knowledge to be a machinist or even setup and run the mill. Is that part of your regular employment? Great job and information.

[@mvfreedom]

Yes Shawn works in the Manufacturing industry!

[@chrishalstead4405]

Strange. I’m never going to own a boat, but this episode was particularly fascinating. Clear, organised and informative; thank you 😊

[@deantaylor3786]

Guys I'm so glad you 're back to making videos! We also recently went lithium on our 53 Carver and we LOVE IT. I went with a full Victron system. Still to be done is the alternators and renewables at some point but otherwise it just makes it so you have to think so much less about it.

[@michaelhill7471]

You two are too much. Upstanding on truthfulness and outstanding on the researched and learned knowledge of the battery changeover. Sweet! Now for a good dad joke.

[@ThoughtfulWander]

Nice job Shawn and Elizabeth on the battery swap out! Hope they give many hours of use! Be safe Freedom crew!! 👍👍

[@seadawg4278]

Very informative video! Your footage of the Orcas was great. You two do such a great job of showing the areas of Puget Sound in such a relaxing delivery.

[@davidallen9526]

Thanks for doing all the foot work and sharing it with us. Extremely good information! You two keep getting better and better.

[@dsarge1977]

This is a great episode... Very well presented and thought out....

[@clemzonsc101]

Thanks for the comprehensive info (liked the spreadsheet). As we move into retirement and more cruising away from our home port, we’re considering upgrading our boat and considering lithium right of the bat as we do enjoy being self sufficient on anchor. Great info - thanks!

[@AliG-iq4gd]

Lithium batteries when used for engine-starting duties - on a cold day, the first crank can be a bit sluggish. BUT - that first crank puts heat into the cells and subsequent cranks are better than equiv L/A AGM batteries. There is also no gradual drop off in cranking power - they keep that same level until they fall off the cliff (so to speak).

[@petermerritt754]

Special request to fast track your Starlink install video 🙏

[@billdillard885]

Excellent DIY project on a frontline subject. Keep up the good… Time to get on down to Florida and the Bahamas!!

[@JeffHaas-haasman]

Hey really good job on the videos. love the transitions, music background (well timed) and professional timing. Nice.

[@jamescarid3448]

Very informative. Would you consider adding to the Li bank and reduce your generator/fuel cost even more? Cheers.

[@mvfreedom]

Adding to the bank doesn’t reduce the need to run the generator, but adding another battery charger would. So that’ll be next for us to cut the generator usage in half again!

[@Brad-sb1dk]

Great episode! OK, full disclosure...I'm an engineer, boater, and Tesla owner, so why wouldn't I love it. Would love to see a analysis of installing some solar, to reduced use of generator further. What does your generator cost to run/hour including maint and depreciation?

[@mvfreedom]

Haven’t calculated the full cost but fuel is 1 gal/hour.

[@eightbars1]

been looking forward to seeing where you work for a long time! And what and how! Cool! Cheers!

[@jeffslaven]

So glad that you guys made the jump to lithium! Great and informative video!

[@billjones261]

How about placing fan(s) over these batteries to help remove any possible heat build up issues and also enhance their longevity ?

[@mvfreedom]

Our bank is quite large so the % of charge and discharge, meaning heat isn’t a huge issue. Not sure how much a heat problem would impact longevity, maybe is we only had 1 battery that was worked pretty hard?!?

[@granteldridge2080]

We've just installed two flexible 150 watt solar panels and a good MPPT charge controller. With the panels wired in series we've seen up to 12 amps at charging voltage into the battery bank. We're charging a bank of 7 old school batteries but hope to only need our genset for the galley range while at anchor. Our main draw has been the refrigerator, we may now also run our inverter to power the icemaker! The total cost was only about $600. Have you considered this as an additional system, it's apparently possible to set the parameters for Lithium batteries.

[@jaquigreenlees]

The amp hour differences in usage will also have an impact. AGM if they say 100 amp hours you have a usable 50 amp hours while with lithium 100 amp hours is 99 usable amp hours. Using the last of a charge makes the recharge more complex with lithium although you can use the full 100. Then there is the current drop from AGM as you draw down the charge, which doesn't happen with lithium. You actually doubled your available amp hours in practical use by matching the lithium to the agm.

[@michaelmanbeck9159]

Hi...Shawn ..Great video today..as always...I enjoy all of your project videos...well done ..enjoy weekend...

[@jedi201]

Great video guys. M/V Gratitude have just installed a LiFeP04 battery bank on their Nordhavn, they cruizing the Med at the moment.

[@heimslach]

Sounds promising, wasn't aware of the insurance issues - certainly great to reduce generator running! I'll look next year when due for replacement. Not so keen on Orcas myself - coming into the med from Norway via Portugal we we're harassed by a pod - as we're over 60ft it wasn't too bad although being eyeballed through the hull windows was intimidating. One 40+ foot boat on delivery had its rudder bitten off!

[@RobG001]

Yes indeed, a pod of them has been 'harassing' mostly sailboats from what I've read, attacking the rudders, two smaller vessels were apparently sunk of Portugal, over 200 incidence in the last few years. countless vessels needed rescuing due to damage received.

[@cliffordb47]

I think that's great that it turned out exactly the way you wanted it to. When a plan comes together like that that's really good enjoy be careful

[@daveduncan2748]

One advantage of Lithium batteries you didn't touch on, is that you have now have more than twice the available energy to pull from them. The Battle Born 8D batteries have 270Ah and you can use all of it without reducing the 3000 cycle life. Lifeline 8d's only have 255Ah, and you can only use half of it without reducing the 500-1000 cycle life. Also, it doesn't bother Lithium to only partially charge it before starting to deplete it. AGM hates that, which you kind of alluded to in the video.

[@darrylmcleman6456]

I have had the whales pass under my 18.5 ft fishing boat while I was fishing here in Sooke B.C. Canada and they never hit a downrigger wire or fishing line! My knees were knocking !!! Big Nordhaven event soon in Victoria! CHEERS

[@johnspecht7449]

Great video as usual. Thank you. I see more and more people going to lithium batteries.

[@larryezell8387]

no worries on cold weather charging, your BMS takes care of that

[@slochmiller]

Another fantastic, easy to understand video. I loved the spreadsheet comparative table. Thank you for taking time to put that together. I can certainly see the advantage Both short term and long term. Thanks again for a well thought out and well edited video. Subscribed viewer. Sacramento California.

[@TrogART]

Yeah I was wondering about the cold with the batteries, I certainly know the cold has killed a lot of my batteries on the tools I have.

[@OVER-bENGINEERED]

Battleborn, UL2054 certified. Enough said! Don’t forget to put a value on not handing lead acid batteries. I’ve hurt my back before, just cleaning or replacing lead acid.

[@brownnoise357]

Ho there. I was considering Lithium P04 batteries for my new boat ( ew build), saw 4,000 recharge cycles and extremely high prices here in the UK for even 90ah batteries. Found recycling them is extremely difficult still, so started looking for alternatives. Well, seems AGM has also comedown a long way, and there are Varta Dual Purpose AGM that have at least 3,500 recharge cycles and a 10 year Service life approx. Now things battery wise will likely change a lot in the next 10 years (and may even encourage a battery switch earlier. For me, needing 2 x battery Banks of at least 3, and maybe 4 per Bank of 120 amphr, the cost difference is staggering, plus .I can get the Battery Baanks, plus the wiring in of everything done by the boat builder. Note : I'm going heavy duty 40 ft Sailboat with a deck Saloon - roof covered in Solar Panels, and a rear Cockpit arch with solar panels plus maybe a small quiet wind generator dedicated to keeping the engine start battery topped up. Engine comes with one 115 amp alternator, going with the optional 2nd one, so each battery bank can have one each. There'll be a fair bit of electronics, plus air con+ heating , Watermaker, and 2 burner gas stove with oven, plus ceramic electric hob, plus Combi microwave oven, so reducing propane consumption., plus large fridge, freezer box, and a 2 drawer vertical stack freezer, and a washer dryer. as soon as one bank of batteries gets below 12.5 volts, I'll switch to the other Bank until the other is fully charged up. Should get Max service life. Was thinking of adding a generator, but no point, as the 55 hp Volvo sips fuel, and diesels need to be used regularly, with a good load to keep them good. Major plus point right now - AGM batteries are fully, and easily recycleable and 720 amps, or 960 amps total 2 Bank Storage should be fine, plus be useful ballast low down over the keel. Best of Luck with your batteries, I'm sure you'll get good value out of them, and likely the recycle situation will improve when you're ready to hange. One point though, be sure not to Rapid charge them, if you can avoid it. Rapid charging an dramatically shorten their lives. Best Wishes. Bob. 👍

[@cabinsusie]

The Baby Orca learning his tricks😍🥰

[@markbrow252]

Really enjoyed your videos . Not judging …questions ? 1. Did include the cost of the new alternator or is the regulator what you were changing on the motor. 2. Did you have to take an increase in insurance cost to go to the Lithium . If so was the cost accounted for in your study? 3. Also , I see no line call out for labor cost savings. This would be a cost that others would have to to incur do to the fact they may not be as talented as your husband. Great video !! Enjoy you guys. Mjb

[@mvfreedom]

1. The regulator & parts were in the cost listed out as $1,500 included in lithium battery cost. 2. We had a nominal increase in insurance cost due to other factors, not the lithium. 3. We didn’t include labor in the cost comparison since we wouldn’t have incurred that cost for either battery type but that’s a big cost to include in AGM’s since that would be incurred 2x compared to only once in a lithium scenario.

[@gordongadbois1179]

NICE INFO AND CONGRATS ON THE INSTALL.

[@billjones261]

Love your channel folks keep up the good work. Have you been up to Vancouver BC yet ? There are a lot interesting places on the west coast of BC up here.

[@mvfreedom]

Yes we’ve cruised a lot in BC over the years, our favorite place thus far!

[@rEy__iRiZaRrY.mAtErIaL]

Your lithium battery video saga was very helpful. I’ve been doing research on lithium batts and your videos were part of my research. Way to go YT University. 😂 Coincidently, our current batteries onboard are the same brand as your previous ones and they are the end of their life. Lithium will be our next move along with solar. Being on anchor will a lot more quieter and pleasant..

[@D30N64]

Maybe you already told us in a previous video about the cost of a slip in a marina per month. It would be interesting to know. I assume you need to rent it full time so that you always have a place to come back to?

[@jimrogers9253]

hi folks, always impressed with your teamwork, fund of knowledge, and skill. jd rogers and henry (the dog).

[@patricksliver3737]

Shawn’s mechanical aptitude must save you guys tens of thousands annually!!

[@123turby]

Interesting topic for sure,however I need to see a bit more of the pups. We have been pupless for a few years now. Officially retired June 30th and then make some big decisions.

[@mvfreedom]

We were just saying that Sully & Martha need more air time 🐶🐶

[@richardmorton949]

We enjoy the puppies and notice the wardrobe is well suited(pun intended)for the PNW chill.Who makes the fleece vests?

[@lockwobr]

Thank you for the videos, really join them. Who do you get your insurance through looking to do something similar and insurance isn't something I have yet figured out. We are also in the sound.

[@braydendonnelly8388]

very informative, honest , You really are a smart cookie Shawn ...... you would make a very good used car salesman LOL

[@lennysstuf4630]

Will you be putting on solar

[@thistledown777]

Amazing and beautiful whale footage! We saw that pod off Blake Island recently. Which camera/lens did you use?

[@peterdekker5918]

Thnx for another video guys. There relaxing, interesting and well edited:). Keep them coming :).

[@wekker090]

10 boat units not bad. smart investment.

[@joefarmer1317]

You talk about an new (additional?) charger as a next project. How many amps can your current setup deliver at full charge with your genny running, and what do you hope to deliver? Great vid!

[@mvfreedom]

Our current charger can deliver 150 amps. An additional charger will add another 100 amps, the batteries can accept as much as 500! We hope to cut our charge time in half again, thus cutting run time/fuel in half again for the generator.

[@joefarmer1317]

Interesting. Just a charger, or another inverter charger? I’m assuming your house bank is 12V, or is it 24? I hope those beers we gave you were not too hoppy!

[@j-maxfromor1895]

I dont see how shorter charge times will save fuel. Higher charge rates require more power from your diesel-generator with higher fuel flow rates for that shorter charge time. Unless there is a difference in charge efficiency, I'm thinking you use the same amount of fuel to put the same amount of energy to fully charge your batteries. I do see that shorter charge times is more convenient.

[@damienquinn]

The Australian climate is perfect for keeping your Lithiums charged. Just saying... Also, feel free to bring some of those beautiful Orcas down under too.

[@thefabes3]

Great video and very informative. I wanted to learn more about Lithium batteries and your video was excellent. Thank you.

[@theguccipilot]

Any chance we can get a couple shots of your fur angels outside of the intro, please? I love Martha!

[@Div3r]

Your spreadsheet is really showing the best case for AGM and the worst case for Lithium. As your own experience has shown you the AGMs gave up the ghost at just over 500 cycles whereas you are probably going to get well north of 3000 cycles from the Lithium. The cost of 3000 cycles for AGM at 500 cycles per set of batteries is going to be around $21,000 ($3,520 x 6) so you are well ahead of the game at $9,200 for 3000 cycles of Lithium. I also think you are going to be running your generator a lot less than you think due to the fact you are going to be able to get around 80% - 90% of the capacity from the Lithium compared to 30% - 40% with AGM. Unless you're prepared to run the generator for hours during the absorption stage to get the AGMs to 100% charge you are never going to get even 50% of the AGMs capacity.

[@WMCC240654]

Interesting episode this week 👍

[@christopherbussell8714]

Battery technology and solar panels are evolving, boats need redundancy. Both power production and storage. If one system fails another backs up. Volumetric efficiency and consumption? If you can increase one, while lowering the other then you have found the beginnings of a perfect path. Well done! Enjoy A boat is a hole in which we place most of our money?

[@brooksmurray5856]

Would insolating the battery compartment to maintain temperature help or Away of regulating temp in compartment?

[@mvfreedom]

Since they’re located in the bilge the temp is regulated by water temp that the boat is floating in. We’ll hopefully never find ourselves in ice!

[@bluduc]

Thank you, and Thank you, for addressing a conflict mineral, we can do better .

[@petergoldstein7116]

Great video guys. Shawn I’m curious about what wax you’re using? Do you apply and polish w the buffer? (PS we just put the same battle borns on our boat 600 AH)

[@markhooper3485]

Real life test: On my liveaboard sailboat I replaced 400lbs of Rolls Surrette lead with a useable current volume of 2.1kW with 150lbs of LiFePO4 supplying just under 6kW. Costs: The Rolls Surrettes cost me US$1320.00(5 years ago), useable lifespan was 2 years working hard daily, so 10 year cost is US$13,200.00. The LiFePO4's were a total of US$6600.00 (three years ago), with expected ten year cost the same at $6600.00. Don't let anyone kid you, LiFePO4 is FAR cheaper. And that is before taking into consideration the ease of swapping, and avoiding wet cell maintenance. Yes, I also correctly changed the engine alternator to a Balmar hi output with a programmable charge controller necessary for the lithium charge profile and a new programmable shore charger too. Of course these never have to work because I also have 1.4kW of solar production. Then I proceeded to run two fridge/freezers, completely electrified the galley using induction and microwave/convection combo, run the RO watermaker every second day, the 1200watt water heater every morning, the big screen each evening and lots of fans. The last time I needed to run the gen for charging was after 3 solid days of heavy cloud...I think it was once in the last six months. I'm hoping by the time I need to change the lithium we'll have production models of the C14/diamond batteries!

[@markhooper3485]

@@charonstyxferryman Hmmm...lead is a common denominator in those. I am ecstatic to never have to lift lead batteries out of a battery compartment again.

[@markrushton4631]

Great job, another one of the list .

[@mvcoastalraven]

How are you able to heat your boat with the new batteries? Also how do you manage it with the thruster(s)? Do you have proportional thrusters?

[@hbunny737]

How are you charging your other banks (starter/windlass)? Assuming they are still lead acid. You can’t just use a combiner or similar?

[@richardbarlow7520]

Question. Can you run the ac all night on your new batteries? And I like you guys. You're fun and have a beautiful boat. Although needs a fly bridge IMHO, but my 42 trawler has one and it makes me feel like I am king of the world. Anyway thanks for your expert videos.

[@parlimage5050]

what a refreshing intro... Love it!!!

[@James-seafan]

interesting video thank you may I ask how were the old batteries disposed of any payment for them

[@bradjames6748]

Next time around try davidson battery of North Vancouver B.C. cheaper prices without compromising quality plus with the 25% exchange rate you get 25.00 free money on every hundred dollars you spend

[@UKCG_2]

Have you thought about adding solar panels to reduce your generator usage?

[@mvfreedom]

No we don’t have space for them.

[@jenniferwhitewolf3784]

Is lithium iron phosphate less likely to spontaneously heat and explode like the variety used in mobile devices and cars?

[@kevincornell1439]

they will explode!

[@anguslafeyette6891]

Great Video. How would a solar array have affected your decision to upgrade to lithium disregarding the fact that you needed to change due to age. I have a 400 watts of solar on my trawler and I have 4 AGM battery bank. I only need my generator to operate my microwave at anchor. Otherwise my solar keeps up with everything. I’ve been contemplating the idea of lithium but I may be better off fortifying my solar and that may be enough. I know you’ve said in the past that it just didn’t make sense for you guys to spend the money on solar because you just could see the benefit. I agree, you spent your “units” in a more productive manner for your boat. Just curious if you had any thoughts since I already have a solar system on my boat. Thank you guys for the great videos. Very helpful and practical knowledge.

[@mvfreedom]

We don’t have space for solar so it’s not on our list of possible future upgrades for a power source.

[@anguslafeyette6891]

I understand, but if you would have had a solar array that fed your agms would you have spent the money on lithium, or saved the cost because you were feeding your batteries vs. storing the energy for longer? Just curious.

[@khunopie9159]

Sully is so handy!

[@praeliora]

So how much solar and wind are you fitting to prevent having to burn fuel to keep them charged..

[@Dieselpitstop]

Should change your theme song to freedom by Pitbull. Fits you guys well😊

[@vs-yy5cx]

Did your spreadsheet figure in the new alternator/generator?

[@craigroberson8757]

The marvel of Killer Whales. The beauty of nature. I have heard great things about Battle Born.

[@The442nd]

Have you guys ever come across floating shipping containers out on the water?

[@ronhatcher7734]

What a great video. Very educational as well!

[@The442nd]

have you guys considered solar panels for recharging?

[@frankcherry3810]

Do you have solar panels/

[@mvfreedom]

No we don’t have room for enough to make it worth it.

[@louisgordon6802]

@@mvfreedom I bet you could fit 1500 Watts which would make a difference in the summer.

[@paulcunningham2859]

Can you add solar to lithium or agm easier

[@D30N64]

Thanks for all the info. I found it very interesting.

[@1stbump]

Awesome video review!

[@hfritz8590]

Great information guys, but why did you not looking at solar as an option for charging the batteries as well?? Keep up the great videos, cheers 🍻

[@OMGWTFLOLSMH]

Do you know how many solar panels you'd need to charge those huge batteries? Do you know how little sun the PNW gets for half the year? A generator is the way to go. Lots of RVs aren't even doing solar anymore because it can't produce the current needed. Straight generator.

[@davidvoller726]

Oh yea, would love to see you paddle your boat! 😂

[@guymanges3628]

Thank you guys for Gig Harbor...

[@jwm4436]

Good vid. Informative. Thanks for sharing. Life is good~

[@j-maxfromor1895]

I don't understand why fuel cost is different. Aren't you using the same amount of energy load with either type of batteries? Do both types have about same input/output losses?

[@eightbars1]

it takes half the time running the generator to charge the new batteries, hence the 46% reduction in costs.

[@mvfreedom]

It’s all about generator run time.

[@j-maxfromor1895]

Hmm. I still don't get it. If your daily discharge energy load e.g. is X kWh with either agm or lifepo4, and your charge time e.g. is half with lifepo4, then with the same 12volts you must be charging with twice the amps. This will require twice the power from your diesel-generator for half the time, and if the efficiency at both rates of charge is the same you will use the same amount of diesel fuel. Is your fuel savings based on better input/output efficiency of lifepo4? I saw info that lifepo4 efficiencies are 90%, and agm can be 50% to 90% depending proper discharge/charge cycles. Or is it the better efficiency of your generator at higher rates of charge? Or all of the above? Thank you in advance for explaining this complicated subject.