What is the Best Spacing between French Cleats?

In the process of building the French Cleat system for my workshop, I commonly had the question of "What is the best distance between French Cleats?" Now each workshop is different and each usage is different, so it is hard to put one exact size for everyone. So for this video, I try to answer this question.
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2 Timothy 2:20

[@raymitchell9736]

No bloopsters at the end? LOL... Anyway, I've got a 2-fer comment for ya.... (1a) another approach and what occurs to me when you brought up the wider spacing... that if you don't know what spacing to use, if you decide to go wide say 12", you can always come back and add a cleat in the middle where you need the cleats and then you'd get 5" spacing... So it would be a hybrid approach. (1b) When I made my cleat wall, I cut a lot of extras strips so I could make more tool holders, or later on I needed a cleat here or there, I just added them... Later on, in a different part of my shop I put my First Aid up and my PPE shelving on cleats that I added later... so it's an evolving thing, just like adding the tool holders, I also add cleats where I need them... the versatility isn't just with the tool holders. (2) The other important thing about the spacing, and you didn't mention, is that the width of the cleat itself is a factor, first it has to be beefy enough to hold the weight, but if the spacing is too close it actually interferes with getting the tool holder on or off the cleat... you need some "headroom" to raise it above with a little extra wiggle room to clear it... so there is a practical limit how close you can go.

[@SpecificLove7]

Thank you Ray for your added insight. Both of those are Awesome pointers especially for new builders. I'm going to pin this at the top of the comments so others will see it.

[@backbeatwoodworks]

I don't see it as wasting cleats if I have them spaced closer together. I view it as having more options when moving things around. One of the main points of this system is to have the ability to reorganize when you expand or as your needs change. You can save some pennies by spacing them further apart, but in the grand scheme of things it's not that much. Great video and it gives people things to think about.

[@SpecificLove7]

Thank you very much B.W. Definitely the ability to move your tools around and reorganize is why everyone should consider French Cleats in a workshop.

[@exploringplaceshistoryanda7004]

You are definitely the King of French cleats. Your videos on French cleats never get old! They work amazingly well! Keep them coming and we will keep watching! Maybe you could do some themed French cleat walls like sports equipment, car detailing, gardening etc. you have so many great ideas!

[@SpecificLove7]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I do hope to release another French Cleat Ideas video in the near future.

[@hydrochloridrix]

Great video as always! I kind of subscribed to the philosophy "one tool - one holder". That way my holders are on the smaller side. Hence, I opted for smaller spacing between the cleats so I don't have to have the back bracing but instead the holders will sit on at least two cleats. Also, my shop is pretty tiny, so that way I can cram way more stuff onto the walls and it makes it easier to move everything around to make space for a new tool. Plus, and more importantly, the holders don't stick out so far from the walls. If you prefer to build large holders that hold many tools e.g. a charging station for all your drills, chargers and batteries you might want to got with larger spacing. And I guess the same holds true if you have a large shop where holders sticking out is not an issue --Thomas

[@SpecificLove7]

Thank you Thomas. I can definitely tell that you have thought this through. And it sounds like you have a very well organized French Cleat setup.

[@KMSchriver]

One of the best videos on this subject. Really appreciate it.

[@ashfox2012]

More knowledgeable information just in time for my workshop build hahah tysm iv loved watching all your years of channel growth in just only a couple weeks haha I can’t get enough of your woodworking hacks keep it up buddy much respect from the uk ✌️🇬🇧

[@DannyB-cs9vx]

What I could use is a French Cleat cart. My walls are filled with shelving units. A cart on wheels could have two sides for the cleats, doubling the storage. When not needed, wheel them to a storage area, or roll them in front of the shelving unit with a walkway between. A hand tool cart would be handy for working on cars. A wall of tools where you need them. I would use straight wheels on one end and wheels that could turn on the other, (would make parking them easier). The cart could be made like a wall on wheels. I would think 2 x 3 construction lumber would be plenty In a storage area, they could be parked like a vertical drawer system. Roll out the one that you need. When done, push it back in. A 4 x 8 floor area could store maybe 4 to 6 double sided carts. Love your channel.

[@SpecificLove7]

Thanks Danny. I have seen something similar and it looked very useful. You should build one.

[@TheLemartes]

yes finally a good video that allowed me to make an educated decision when building my first french cleat wall :) thank you!

[@HBSuccess]

You’re either gonna put more cleats on the wall, or you’re gonna put a false support/brace strip on the back of your tool holders. Pick your poison but I think more narrowly spaced cleats look way better and are much more versatile than wide spacing.

[@penjon]

Finally cleaned up my garage a bit and planning to add French cleats, so I've been thinking about this as well. Since I don't have a lot of tools currently I'm planning on using a fairly large spacing between cleats, but also planning to be able to add more in between by making the bracing I'm going to use on the tool holder either removable or compatible with the smaller cleat spacing. I'm thinking of also making a couple of cleat hanging jigs which should also help maintain consistent spacing between the cleats.

[@SpecificLove7]

Adding additional cleats later is definitely a great way to improve your shop over time. Also the idea of creating a jig for even spacing is an excellent use of your time.

[@stevehobson7923]

Really like your videos and your personality. Thanks. Very informative and fun. Keep up the good work. Steve Hobson

[@chadpearman4123]

First off I want to say thanks for making these amazing videos! You've given me so many ideas and tips for my storage of tools and gear. My question is about spacing but not between cleats, but rather for studs. My garage was built in '54 and my studs are about 24" apart. I would obviously try to hit every stud with two screws but I was wondering if it'll still hold up well?

[@RickFarris]

Thanks, Clint!

[@cornpop7805]

Perfect timing with this video! I've actually been waiting until I feel comfortable with a setup, such that I won't be disappointed in the spacing I choose. I have decided to start out with broad spacing, so I can become familiar with using the system, then fill in between, at a later date. I do a lot of welding and my walls will be steel barn siding. Wooden cleats would be a fire hazard because hot spatter will get caught between the wall cleats and the wall. As such, I'll use aluminum zee brackets, but the concept remains the same. I have and will continue to gain inspiration from your channel, thank you for sharing!

[@SpecificLove7]

Thank you very much. Using the aluminum z brackets is definitely a great alternative for your situation. I also recently discovered metal pegboards, which might benefit you as well.

[@cornpop7805]

@@SpecificLove7 I've considered metal pegboard, but I believe extruded aluminum or bent steel zee strips will be my focus. It will also give me another opportunity to use my rotary laser, which is one of the coolest tools I've got. I even hang pictures with it, so I'm probably a little obsessed.

[@bigowlforest9361]

The shelf on 2.30 is an excellent idea. I'll get rid of my non-movable ones now.

[@markjames4442]

Thank you for taking the time to make this video. I am looking at using cleats in my workshop and was thinking that wider spacing would work overall and if I require smaller cleat spacing for small items that I could make a small spacing cleat board which can be move anywhere on the wide spacing cleat wall. Has anyone done this?

[@TimothyLeMoine1Cor13_4-8]

Thanks for the info!!

[@pointblankokc]

Good info man, thank you !

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

The spacings you give (~1:00) are actually the gaps- the spacing is from the top of one rail to the top of the next. That is the module height. Which impacts your storage density. There is a better way- firstly instead of using an angle for the cleat use a slot- gives more positive engagement. Secondly, do it by router into a timber wall, at (say) 30mm spacing. this reduces your module height from around 150 to 30, five times more choice of placement. Or use 10mm spaced holes for even more adjustment (you see where I am going here...)

[@s_a_shaffer]

Using a router to add a slot? For French cleats? Are you sure you're not mixing up a French cleat with a t-slot? If not, can you please share a video or website that shows what you're referring to? I'm working on a tool wall currently and I'm interested in what others have done. Thanks.

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

@@s_a_shaffer I was actually using the 'Reductio ad absurdum' argument to show some of the flaws of 'French cleats'(FC). Personally, I use a pallet system (that is pallet in the machinist's fixture system, not the bulk transport tray). Most FC systems use carriers of several tools that hook on the strips- because the overhead of small single tool mounting is too great. These are far from stable- they use gravity to stay in place, and can easily be knocked out of place. A machinist's pallet consists of a plate with a grid of tapped holes in it. Clamps etc can then be used to secure a workpiece in the desired configuration. My wall is covered in a twin sheet of material that has a 10mm spaced grid of holes for 4mm bolts. In practice, these do not need tapping- they self tap easily. Carriers just need two holes a whole number of 10mms apart. Two bolts zip in and hold it firm. Advantages over cleats- - much better resolution of placement- to within 10mm. - secure, does not rely on gravity. - slimmer, no parts fitted to the back - requires less material to make - smaller module sizes are also practical - individual tools can also be mounted (hooks, clips, etc) - does not collect dust in the grooves The appearance is of pegboard- but it is not. The only link is that pegboard techniques can be used too- but carriers give better density. It is also much stronger than pegboard- one of my carriers has nine heavy hammers on it- and is rock solid. I will be adding a video on the system shortly.

[@s_a_shaffer]

@@Tensquaremetreworkshop Thank you for clarifying.

[@ParaBellum2024]

In my shop, I made a cleat-adjustment system using rope and pulleys, so the cleat spacing is infinitely adjustable. I got the idea from some Venetian blinds. Some days, I set the gap at 3", and other days, I go as far as 16". The beauty of the system is that (like Venetian blinds), one side can be lower than the other, so my cleat gap can change from left to right. The cleats are about 6' long, and a difference of 4" over that length is perfect, and you don't notice too much that the tools are hanging slightly askew.

[@jasonroos5781]

I actually space mine 3" apart and i love it and have no intention of changing it. Does consume more material though. Curious if im some sort of monster for doing this, hah.

[@stephengee8488]

I think you could have spacing that is different. Small spacing up top and larger spacing at the bottom.

[@SpecificLove7]

That might work for some people, but I like consistency, so it would probably drive me nuts. But if that is what you want in your workshop, go for it.

[@nancysparks8168]

I see your cleats as you are showing them... But How Do You Make the Cleats.& Attach them etc.... That part I also need to to see a video of that part... Do you have one? & How to locate that video as well... As I Love this video.. it is full of information so useful... Thank you for making this video..

[@davidkelly1298]

He does

[@davidkelly1298]

What no bloopers? Lol sometimes those are my favorite part.

[@SpecificLove7]

Unfortunately there wasn't many good ones in this one.

[@ddhrsa]

thanks!

[@buddycromer7393]

Question, I have open stud walls with insolation. Can I use 2 by 4 for cleats. They are a lot cheaper than 3/4 plywood and would be strong. Second, could the cleat on the storage box be 3/4, scrap plywood ? Thank you

[@scotshaw8479]

Have watched all of your French cleat videos. Great job. A question that you may have answered, but maybe I missed...You mentioned that your cleats should be about 3 to 3-1/2". That looks like the width for the wall side cleats. How about the cleats on the tool holders? Are those shorter? They appear to be in the videos. Thanks!

[@SpecificLove7]

Mine are usually a little smaller because the tool holder will not be holding as much weight as the wall cleats. I do glue them to the holder.

[@jodyfrasnelli8928]

I saw a commercial on tv they didn't use cleats on the wall but they used t tracks to hold tools

[@SpecificLove7]

That is another way to do it, but we prefer French cleats.

[@dennisschickling2249]

Nice Video. #STAYSAFE #PHILLYPHILLY 🇺🇸

[@josephromero1596]

Is there a reason to use 3 inch cleats over 1.5??? Is 3 stronger?

[@SpecificLove7]

Think about a 2x4 verses a 2x6, which can hold more weight? Also I usually prefer safety over appearance.

[@521farmer]

Howdie ya make it easy to understand wondering why ya don't use 2x4,s got on bk wall for cleat or 2x6,s ? I,m new at wood making stuff for l,m green horn mechanics is my trade but this wood making stuff is cool to do looks like been watching you for some time now and joined cause you mak0e it easy enough that you don't have to be rocket scientist to do this stuff l,ve got air tools that thought was heavy and would fall off ? But it seems like they hold so if ya can help me out better joined your videos our helpful tips and advice work for me and how wood ya take my peg boards and use to make them usable for French cleats to hang mine up stuff my shop is 40 by 60 ten ft walls got lots of room 🌫 building ya hav plans for building these thks so much for showing us how to do this l,m from Canada 🍁 SK mighty chilly here in winter time most of the time it gets to 35 below and tools are hard to work with so guessing l,m on board ready for a adventure mighty fine Sir thanks

[@cindyharrison4191]

Can they be made on a bandsaw?

[@SpecificLove7]

Yes

[@JosephASorrentino]

Why isn't the spacer a "french cleat"?

[@doozerakapuckfutin]

Watch no bloopers ?

[@SpecificLove7]

Sorry Dozer, I didn't have any good ones this time 😁

[@itzisxaac1655]

here from how to tie a tie

[@gsaexperience8578]

This is such a pointless video. The space between them is irrelevant. That’s what makes them so universal. You could make them 10’ apart if you want it just depends on the application. Also, the spacing between them doesn’t need to the the same. I have 2” gap up to 6” gap.

[@SpecificLove7]

I would have agreed with you a while back about the video being pointless, but I have been asked the spacing question so many times by so many people that I felt it was truly necessary to produce a video to help those who really wanted to know my thoughts on the subject.