What is the Church of God General Conference? (COGGC)

Church of God General Conference is a denomination which claims to be "Biblical unitarians." This video discusses what they believe.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:46 Church of God (Faith of Abraham) / Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith
01:00 History of the Church of God General Conference
02:41 Sources for this video
03:25 COGGC Unitarian Views / "One God Churches"
07:03 Ordinances in COGGC (Baptism and Communion)
07:34 View of Scripture and Creation in COGGC (Young Earth Creation)
08:52 Conditional Immortality in COGGC
09:15 COGGC view of Original Sin
10:06 What COGGC teaches about salvation
11:45 COGGC view of Calvinism and Arminianism
12:12 COGGC teaching on the Gospel
13:41 COGGC views on Sanctification, Holy Spirit, and the Charismatic Movement
15:21 COGGC teaching on Soul Sleep / Unconsciousness in Death
16:05 COGGC teaching on annihilationism
16:48 COGGC beliefs on eschatology, premillennialism, rapture
18:03 COGGC teaching about Israel in end times
18:50 COGGC teaching about eternity in the new earth
20:19 COGGC teaching on sexuality
20:41 What does COGGC teach about divorce and remarriage?
21:11 What COGGC teaches about abortion
21:29 Worship Style in COGGC Churches
21:39 What COGGC teaches about drinking alcohol
23:16 What COGGC teaches about tithing
24:05 COGGC beliefs about the devil / satan
24:34 COGGC beliefs on food laws and sabbath
25:01 What COGGC teaches about war and pacifism
25:55 Church government and polity in the COGGC
25:25 Church offices within COGGC
26:37 Women in ordained ministry in COGGC
27:16 Unitarian Christian Alliance
27:40 Other denominations with similar names
28:01 Statistics of Church of God General Conference

[@foxbat252]

Nice presentation. Good to see some coverage of Unitarian Christian groups.

[@shsnj]

A superb presentation, as are all of Joshua's videos (I've binged). Not only are they high quality but they're thoroughly objective. I never see any misrepresentations, no straw men to knock over. That's a rare thing in our day and age. This one was especially good: I was surprised to see a treatment of a relatively small group like the COG General Conference. But I was doubly surprised (and gratified) to hear myself quoted twice in this video. Great work! Joshua, you set a standard that others would do well to emulate.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

Thanks a bunch! I'm glad to hear that you've enjoyed the videos. Neat to hear from someone quoted in the video!

[@yhwhtoyoutoo]

This is one of the BEST presentations I have seen! Thanks for your hard work the well rounded research.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

I appreciate that, Henry!

[@tonythatorc971]

Hey thanks for doing the Church of God General Conference. It is not too often that Biblical Unitarians are mentioned as much as more mainstream churches and beliefs today.

[@CRACKBONE7317]

They seem pretty unbiblical to me, I'll be honest.

[@michaelseay9783]

@@CRACKBONE7317Biblical Unitarians or Unitarian Universalists?

[@ulty1472]

@@michaelseay9783 both

[@CRACKBONE7317]

Brother@@MichaelTheophilus906, The Unitarians were condemned by the early church. I would encourage you to look up the story of Saint Nicholas and Arius. Best, Tristen Wittman

[@fighterofthenightman1057]

@@CRACKBONE7317Exactly, and they were determined to be heretics BASED on Scripture! Arians, Unitarians, Nestorians, etc. all cherry pick Bible verses that seem (after an overly simplistic read) to back up their views, but they ignore everything Biblical that contradicts their views. That is why Theology and not just a “Me and my Bible!” attitude is important to avoid heresy.

[@billfriend3253]

Excellent presentation of their beliefs from a fairly broad and even-handed perspective. Thank you for preparing and sharing this material.

[@emsdiy6857]

I know I trust Christ and if I don't understand something I pray and give it to chirst and worry Nomore. I use to get sick worrying about stuff, but finally learned to give to the lord theres far to much to worry about .

[@stevencox8579]

@ReadyToHarvest I'm a Christadelphian, I came to this after a friend noticed your Christadelphians video of 2 weeks ago. Surprised to see this one on our COGGC cousins was 2 years ago. I think my immediate impression is how much better the COGGC presentation of our beliefs is than the much larger Christadelphian community in the US. I suppose we are working on this.

[@sharoncarter7746]

Thank you, Joshua, for your reporting on the Unitarians. I follow the KZbin channel Focus on the Kingdom.

[@RhenishHelm]

Very interesting presentation!

[@biological-woman]

Thank you, Joshua, for reccomending this video to me! It has helped alot!

[@Konarali]

Excellent work!

[@cbradio9124]

I am Jewish and follow Judaism. However I find that this movement is more closer to Jerusalem church than any other church

[@kennethkirui445]

They only deviated from the Jerusalem church by keeping the first day of the week rather than the seventh day Shabbat which is critical!

[@hommerecorder7003]

Psalm 110,1. . King David . And the End King Jesus Christ . Read in the Bible.Shalom❤

[@brendaboykin3281]

Thanx, Joshua🌹🌲🌹

[@gabsteed7365]

It concerns me that the first instinct of many commenters on this video is to attempt to dismiss this denomination. Surely, on a channel dedicated to exploring and educating about different denominations, you would know to be more respectful of the information being presented to you. It is a given that there will be other Christians who disagree, even fundamentally at times, with what you believe. To come into one of these comment sections and begin to insist upon your personal beliefs and/or those of you denominations undermines the point of this channel, does it not? If you're doing so, have you really opened yourself up to learning anything? In fact, should you not rejoice in that others are inspired by the word of God, looking to be saved, even if it's not in the way you would do it? It would be naive for me to expect Christians to be open-minded all of the time, but if you're on a channel like this or seeking out videos like this, you may as well be respectful of the fact that the content will not match what you believe.

[@EssenceofPureFlavor]

A group that denies the deity of Christ isn't Christian, period. This isn't at all equivalent to differences on matters of eschatology, sacramental theology, or honestly even the trinity itself. If Jesus isn't God, His death meant nothing and Christianity is nothing but a fancy social club.

[@danirving]

It's because the disrespectful commenters have "gnosis" of metaphysical claims beyond the biblical text. It's the same merciless spirit their "orthodox" or "catholic" fathers had when they wrongly sentenced believers with humbler views to excommunication and death. They are compelled to pronounce judgement of hellfire and reject that a unitarian could be brother, despite the fact that their own lord Jesus Christ believes in a unipersonal God.

[@danirving]

​@@EssenceofPureFlavorThat's not true. The theological constructs you were indoctrinated with have forced you into the position that he HAD to be God.

[@ZacharyTLawson]

Dale Tuggy is a sharp dude. Even though I think he is dead wrong about the Trinity, I’ve benefitted a lot from his podcast, Trinities, and his SEP article on contemporary philosophical models of the Trinity. I’d recommend any serious orthodox student to interact with his critiques. Really glad to see this group get the R2H treatment, especially since they often get wrongly looped in with the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

[@ggductor1511]

Can you be saved if you believe in Jesus and not the trinity, if you say no please give scriptural evidence

[@toilet_cleaner_man]

@@ggductor1511 I wouldn't say that it's a question of salvation (though I will not say heretics will be saved), but the idea of non-trinitarian worship of Jesus is confused at best and directly harmful at worst. God said there are no Gods but God (Exodus 20:2), and Jesus is God (Math. 16:16, 63:64), so it can be reasonably assumed from the bible that Jesus is apart of God, but not of a separate or distinct divinity. We also know that God the Father, maker of Heaven and Earth, is God, and too the Holy Spirit is God, as He is spirited from both the Father and Son for all time and even before time. They are co-existent, equal in power and majesty, equal in intelligence and holiness. Also, another thing that completely removes the need for assumptions of scripture is the Keys to the Kingdom, for which the Lord Christ Jesus gave to his apostles, and Paul minces no words when describing the doctrine of the Triune God. You can boot and rally all you wish, but the men for whom the Lord God appointed to construct the Church upon his sacrifice knew and wrote the truth, and the whole truth, that God is 1 in 3, and equal in glory and power, 3 persons to one God. I implore you to research the truth, understand the nature of God for which has been revealed to us, and I assure you that the truth of the trinity will come to you. Do not take my words, take the inspired word of the apostles and the word of the Church Fathers, for they know more than I do.

[@alex-qe8qn]

@ZacharyTLawson. Wrong way round! The onus is on you who asset that : 1. the Trinity is plainly and unambiguously, not just obliquely and inferentially, taught in the New Testament; and that 2. the New Testament teaches also, plainly and unambiguously, not just obliquely and inferentially, that belief in the Trinity is necessary for salvation.

[@brendaboykin3281]

Thanx, Joshua🌹🌹🌹🌹

[@Dunning-Kruger-effect]

Great video!

[@davidboamah6679]

Well done!

[@anthonygamblin5023]

Can you do a comparison of the different groups that call themselves Church of God, such as Church of God (Anderson) , Church of God (Winebrenner), Church of God (Cleveland), etc.?

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

or the old Worldwide Church of God

[@anthonygamblin5023]

@@wendyleeconnelly2939 I had almost forgotten about them, altogether. I guess before they did the major theological overhaul and went from cult to orthodox Christian, they were more well known.

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

@@anthonygamblin5023 Yeah they went from their heterodox "one true church" stance to what I guess is rather mainstream evangelical a couple of decades ago. Of course people who believed in what they did stand for went into various offshoots

[@barefootinroann]

Actually the only of these three groups are Anderson and Winebrenner (Anderson split from Winebrenner in the 1880s over the doctrine of Entire Sanctification.

[@actionsub]

That's an important point to bring out. The Winebrenner-founded Church of God is also known as Churches of God, General Conference, though theologically they are miles apart. The CGGC is a classic Arminian church, differing from the Anderson Church of God by rejecting the Wesleyan doctrine of entire sanctification that the Anderson ChOG affirms. The church described in the video above is an Adventist spinoff.

[@stephenbailey9969]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John chapter 1) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. (Colossians chapter 2) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. (Hebrews chapter 1)

[@rumrunner8019]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@foxbat252]

It's interesting that Trinitarians and Unitarians both use those verses as evidence to support their views, just with different interpretations.

[@Phill0old]

@@foxbat252 No they don't. The Unitarians abuse the scripture. To claim that John did not teach that The Word was fully God and yet, at the same time, was a different one is to mislead. John's gospel absolutely teaches the divinity of Christ. Therefore no logical or honest informed person can assert that God is a single person. All Unitarians play games with the Greek and try to make passages more obscure to avoid the consequences of them. That which is that which God is cannot at the same time and in the save manner be less than God.

[@foxbat252]

@@Phill0old I'm a unitarian, so I know what unitarians believe about scripture. We read the Bible too, we just interpret it differently to trinitarians. I don't expect trinitarians to be convinced by our interpretations, but at least understand that we argue from the scriptures, including John 1.

[@Phill0old]

@@foxbat252 The JWs, the Mormons, the Moonies etc all make the same claim. No serious scholar believes that John 1 is anything other than a clear statement of the deity of Christ. They grammar doesn't allow for any other understanding. So when you say you argue from scripture what you mean is that in this case, and a good few others, you will argue that the clear meaning, the Greek grammar and the thrust of the comments are all wrong. That isn't getting anything from scripture it is laying your opinions over scripture. So while you may be a sincere Unitarian you are not a sincere Bible student.

[@lakiro1488]

Very insightful videos. Would be nice to hear about mega churches in Africa particularly Nigeria and any controversies. Whether they trace roots to any lineage or spring up de novo

[@tombuddy100]

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John 20:17 There are many verses in the Bible supporting Unitarianism. That one is pretty clear. I wonder how Trinitarians explain or interpret that verse.

[@fredrolinners8903]

The Father is God (John 20:17), and Jesus is God (John 20:28). Whenever "my God" (John 20:28) is used by a believer in the Bible it always refers to the Almighty.

[@tombuddy100]

@@fredrolinners8903 Trinity doctrine is not a fundamental belief, certainly not a fundamental belief until the councils in Nicea in the 4th century AD. There is no mention of the word "trinity" in the Bible, and there is no explanation of the doctrine in the Bible. A Christian is not supposed to incorporate non-Biblical doctrines into Christian faith. Jesus never referred to himself as the Almighty God. He always referred to the Father as the Almighty God. He said that the Father is greater than him, and that "servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him", implying hierarchy, where Jesus is not the greatest, and therefore cannot be the Almighty God. Why defend decisions made by the councils in Nicea in the 4th century AD, when the Bible clearly says otherwise?

[@fredrolinners8903]

@@tombuddy100 Next time, try not to dodge John 20:28.

[@tombuddy100]

@@fredrolinners8903 Would you honestly get to believe in the incomprehensible Trinity doctrine on your own if councils in Nicea reached the conclusion that the Father is Almighty God, and the Son is not? In other words, would you be Trinitarian if mainstream Christianity was not?

[@fredrolinners8903]

@@tombuddy100 Because you refuse to address the fact that Thomas referred to the Lord Jesus as "my God" (thus proving Jesus is the Almighty) in John 20:28 I am to reject you as a heretic (Titus 3:10). I will not read any more of your responses here. - bye -

[@UniversalistSon9]

I believe in universalism, adoptionism and modelism, this just makemakes sense to me.

[@JaysonCarmona]

Sounds similar to Jehovah's Witness in respect to who God is and their view of Christ. There are differences though, JWs believing Jesus was Michael, but Church of God believes Jesus was created at birth.

[@myronmason8170]

I am a member of the Unitarian Christian Alliance on Facebook and it is a nice group. I do however feel like a minority since I am one the few Non-adorantist and psilanthropist Unitarian and Universalist Christians on the group.

[@personaldove]

Biblical Unitarians really need to go mainstream. Its ridiculous that the likes of Mormons gained it.

[@myronmason8170]

@@personaldove it is unfortunate.

[@jeanpommes]

Sold

[@willibrordusa.vanderweide2962]

Am a member of the Watchtower Society. After I researched many topics of my own religion it is clear that Jesus has no pre exist before he born on earth. Thanks for excellent explanation of history and today

[@fredrolinners8903]

The Jehovah's Witnesses deny Jesus is to be worshiped, but in their writings they sometimes affirm He is worshiped. They are very confused.

[@the1allahprays2]

What bible are you reading??? Oh wait that's right you guys made your own translation to align with you preconceived beliefs instead taking your theology from the bible itself.

[@chris2fur401]

As a pastor in the church of God (Cleveland), I really wish other denominations didn’t use the name Church of God. Really gets things confused. Especially in these situations

[@daniellehman1991]

😁. I hope you're not offended but having been around Church of God people all my life; that comment makes me laugh. My MIL was raised old-fashioned Church of God (D.S. Warner) and the one thing that joins all y'all together regardless of whether you're pentecostal in background or from the other side of the COG is that you don't mess with the name.

[@chris2fur401]

@@daniellehman1991 lol. I’m not offended

[@thursoberwick1948]

You need to choose a less generic name. The Church of Christ has a similar issue. Even the Mormons are rebranding as Church of Jesus Christ.

[@chris2fur401]

@@thursoberwick1948 I agree lol. That’s been our name for over 100 years so I don’t see them changing it. But I agree

[@jayt9608]

@@chris2fur401, This is not only true of names but acronyms as well. A few days ago Josh did a report on a Presbyterian organization abs at one point refered to them as UPC. Now I came from the UPC and we were not and never have been a Presbyterian denomination. Obviously, I was raised in the United Pentecostal Church International with the internal acronym being the UPC, the I generally appearing on official documents but not necessarily in daily parlance. Still, having seen the innumerable "Church of God" denominations that are existent, I quite feel your pain when attempting any independent research.

[@tarikhistory]

This Church is really according to scriptures

[@dwashington1333]

As regards to the Father being Almighty God alone, YES. As regards soteriology, NO they preach an Arminian doctrine which is false, God is Sovereign over our Salvation.

[@tarikhistory]

I think they're right We have free will

[@dwashington1333]

@@tarikhistory yes we have freewill but only according to our nature. Before we were born again our freewill was bound by our sin nature. After we are born again we have the ability to come to Jesus because he made us alive spiritually from being dead in trespasses and sins.

[@tarikhistory]

Ok that makes sense

[@tombuddy100]

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15: 26-28) How do Trinitarians explain those verses?

[@edwardhill7045]

Revelation 13 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

[@bergeronwb]

A simple reading of the Old Testamemt makes it clear that the descendents of Abraham did not believe in a trinity. I believe that if it were a crucial thing for God's chosen people to know, he would have made it very clear to them. Still a further reading of the New Testament makes it clear that Jesus acknowledged he had a God to whom he served and worshipped. Jesus was subordinate to his Father. No where is this clearer than in John 14:28. When Jesus was speaking with the Samaritan woman, he tells her that "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father...true worshippers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshippers the Father seeks" (John 4:21-23). If Jesus is God why would he go through the subterfuge of telling her about the Father instead of saying, "Here I am! Worship me."? Jesus taught that life everlasting was to know "the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" (John 17:3). To further illustrate the point that Jesus recognized he was not God Almighty, in the Garden of Gethsemane, as Jesus prayed, he asked for the the cup (the trial and crucifixion he was to go through) to pass from him. He clearly states that not as he want but that his Father's will be done (Matthew 26:39). This proves that the Savior was not about his own business, but that of his Father in heaven. The bottom line is that the trinity is an un-Biblical teaching. It fuses the philosophies and teachings of men into a creed that people had to swear to or face excommunication, and in some cases, death. I'd rather follow what Jesus taught than what some group of self-professed "church fathers" say I should believe and follow. It is not heresy to follow what God has instructed us to know for salvation in the Bible.

[@fredrolinners8903]

Jesus is God (John 20:28).

[@tombuddy100]

@@fredrolinners8903 So, you base your entire doctrine on what Thomas exclaimed on one occasion, disregarding basically the rest of the Bible, including John 20:17?

[@fredrolinners8903]

@@tombuddy100 No, because there is not enough space to go through all the passages which teach Jesus is God in this small comment section. Is this just an excuse for you to erase John 20:28 from the Bible? John 20:17 teaches the Father is God, and John 20:28 teaches the Lord Jesus is God. I am also willing to discuss how Paul applies YHWH from Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the LXX) unto the Lord in reference to Jesus in Romans 10:13. This proves Jesus is YHWH.

[@tombuddy100]

@@fredrolinners8903 So, you put equal significance on what apostle Thomas exclaimed in astonishment after finding out that Jesus really got resurrected and on what Jesus himself said after being resurrected? In John 20:17, Jesus said ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’, clearly identifying who God is. There are literally hundreds of verses in the Bible supporting Unitarian view that the Father is YHWH, the only God. This one for example (John 17:3). There is no doubt in the Bible who we should worship (John 4:23) There is no doubt in the Bible who we should pray to (Matthew 6:9-13) Also, if Jesus is God, why did God exalt him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name? (Philippians 2:9)

[@fredrolinners8903]

@@tombuddy100 Jesus took what Thomas believed and said others who don't see Him are blessed. Thus, if others refer to Jesus as "my Giod" without seeing Him the are blessed. There are absolutely no passages which teach Jesus isn't God. I already supplied two that do (John 20:28 and Romans 10:13 - you ignored Romans 10:13). Choose only passage which you think is the clearest that support your view and I will address it.

[@Exactamundo]

Church of God GC - Unitarian Church of God (7th day) - Binitarian First Day Adventist - Trinitarian Seventh Day Adventist - Trinitarian This makes me wonder if our belief of who God is really more important than the day we worship him.

[@EssenceofPureFlavor]

Yep, 100%

[@vngelicath1580]

What I'm gathering is that while they are unitarian, they are Arian-Unitarians (like JWs) rather than Modalist-Unitarians (like Oneness Pente.)

[@tarikhistory]

No preexistance of the Son in COGGC unlike arianism

[@EssenceofPureFlavor]

Yes, and that's a VERY significant difference. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to modalists, that many of them are genuine believers who are just ignorant or misunderstand trinitarian teaching. Denying the deity of Jesus though is next level. This is by no means Christian whatsoever. The fact they are otherwise very theologically conservative makes it even more scary. The devil knows how to get people to believe a lie, by bringing it in with truth.

[@danirving]

They are not Arians, Jesus is a human.

[@magpiecity]

This group seems quite sophisticated compared to many other anti-Trinitarians.

[@RhenishHelm]

This is perhaps a stupid question, but that won't stop me from asking it: are you aware of any Calvinist Unitarians? In other words, Calvinist in their soteriology but Socinian or Arian in their Christology? Those who would fall on the TULIP side more than demonstrate a Remonstrant affinity? Most of the COGGC material you list seems to harbour a profound distaste for Calvinism, but I don't see anything about their Christological or Pneumatological perspective that could preclude the acceptance of Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, of the Perseverance of the Saints - unless I'm missing something.

[@RepublicofE]

Interesting question. I imagine if such a group existed, they would reject the label "Calvinist."

[@RhenishHelm]

​@@RepublicofE I think I figured it out this morning: the doctrine of Total Depravity doesn't work with an entirely human (or Socinian) Jesus. If all mankind is depraved from birth and possesses a radical inability to do good, then Jesus could not have lived a sinless life. Now, perhaps an Adoptionist may say that that depravity was "suspended" by the anointing Jesus received at his baptism (or much earlier in his life), but if Hebrews 2:17 is to be applied as literally as possible, "he had to be made like his brothers in *every* respect," then it would mean that the depraved nature of man clung to Jesus throughout his entire life, yet he did not sin, which would refute the "total" part of the Reformed understanding of that doctrine. One who holds a Socinian Christology would, therefore, be unable to affirm something like WCF chapter 6. An Arian Christology, however, could circumvent Total Depravity, since the Son of God would have been made before the world, and thus, before mankind. Therefore, Christ would never have inherited the Depravity of Adam's posterity, since he would preexist the Fall. Then, when the Son took human flesh, his similar essence to the Father (or similar character, depending on what strain of Arianism is in focus: Homoiousian, Homoian, Anomoean, etc.), would have overcome the weaknesses of his mortal body. One who holds an Arian Christology could, therefore, be able to affirm WCF chapter 6, with nary an edit.

[@dwashington1333]

I am an Arian who believes in Sovereign Grace. I believe God regenerates (makes us alive) and gives us faith. I believe in TULIP except the P is preservation not perserverance.

[@davidstout6051]

If you believe that everyone will be saved, you pretty much have to affirm some sort of predestination so I think that would make at least some of the earlier Unitarian Universalists Calvinist in soteriology while being Unitarian in Christology. How it plays out today is something I just don’t know, though I would guess there are probably at least some around.

[@RhenishHelm]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 Its concepts don't appear to be mutually exclusive: a strong belief in preordination and predestination that necessitates an irresistible conversion on the basis of a limited atonement, securing a believer infallibly and removing the possibility of shipwreck and/or apostasy, while also holding to a Socinian or Arian Christology. It's only an oxymoron if by the term "Calvinist Unitarian" one would try to imply that John Calvin or the Reformed tradition that sprung from him would have condoned Unitarian views, or if by "Unitarian" you assume the doctrine of Universalism, which is not taught by COGGC and is a separate kettle of fish altogether. But going off the soteriological concepts associated with Calvinism and limiting Unitarianism to its Christological claims, it seems like it may have been possible.

[@mitchevans4597]

“He who has seen me, has seen the Father.” John 14:9 “I and the Father are one.” John 10:28-29

[@dwashington1333]

"The Father is greater than I" "I do nothing of my own authority but whatever I hear from my Father" "Nobody knows the day nor the hour neither the Son or the angels only my Father in heaven" The Father is not begotten, the Father prays to no one but the Son prays to our Father and his Father and our God and his God.

[@dylanelias6812]

@Gabe Ruth In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. Genesis 1:1‭-‬3 NKJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. John 1:1‭-‬4 NKJV Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.” John 8:19 NKJV Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. John 8:42 NKJV Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58 NKJV And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. John 12:45‭-‬46 NKJV

[@dwashington1333]

@@dylanelias6812 none of those scriptures prove a Trinity. God is a title, the word god in itself doesn't mean Almighty, that is why we use the adjective almighty in front of the noun God. Moses was called God and the judges of Israel were called gods even Satan is called the God of this world. Jesus being called God doesn't make him Almighty God, it's a title that means ruler.

[@jawnatutorow]

@@dwashington1333 what do you think about the scripture verse Deuteronomy 18:18-19? When you take that in to account and then go back to John 1 it changes the common understanding. Even going as far as John the Baptist declaring Jesus as the Light which is also mentioned in Genesis at the beginning of creation! Thoughts?

[@dwashington1333]

@@jawnatutorow Deut 18:18,19 doesnt prove a Trinity. I believe the Old King James Bible it says Godhead not Trinity. Jesus is in the Godhead but as he said, My Father is greater than I. Jesus is divine because he is the only begotten of the Father. Trinity is wrong it says coequal, coeternal. Jesus debunks the Trinity more than once.

[@watcherwlc53]

How different are they from Christadelphians?

[@foxbat252]

Similar, but some key differences are Christadelphians 1) do not believe in literal Satan/demons, 2) hold more strongly to pacifism, 3) have more specific core beliefs about end times prophecies

[@watcherwlc53]

okay he does mention one point of contrast near the end of the video

[@justinfiorenzio7112]

The 7th D. Church of God which broke early in the 17 or 1800s from the 7 D. Adventist Church, teaches on these very things , except they believe Saturday is the proper day of worship

[@majafleur9646]

Have you done the Baha'i yet?

[@tgmccoy1556]

Almost right.

[@anarchorepublican5954]

7:31...thanks..but not so fast...not quite 💯....frequency of 🥖🍷... Please????...anyone?...

[@jland90]

I wish there was a COGGC church in Denver. There are no Unitarian churches here.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

Well, there is this www.denverchristadelphians.com/

[@jland90]

@@ReadyToHarvest I know but I think teaching that the devil isn't a real spirit being is dangerous and leaves Christians vulnerable. That was an unfortunate deal breaker for me

[@ReadyToHarvest]

@@jland90 Ah, have you seen this? facebook.com/groups/unitarianchristiansofnorthmetrocolorado

[@chrisklausner4418]

Imagine moving to Geneva Indiana

[@RexFuturi]

It's good to hear about non-trinitarians. Not that I agree with the dogma of their church. Churches will always corrupt the connection between God and Man.

[@justinfiorenzio7112]

Didn't H.W.Armstrong, come out of this group

[@dwashington1333]

I wish I could find a church that believes that Almighty God is one person and not three and that believes God is sovereign over our salvation, not a free will gospel. God chooses us, Ephesians Chapter 1 and Romans Chapter 8 and 9.

[@fredrolinners8903]

Jesus is God (Romans 10:13).

[@dwashington1333]

@@fredrolinners8903 Jesus is not Almighty God. "The Father is greater than I" he said.

[@fredrolinners8903]

@@dwashington1333 Functional subjection does not necessitate ontological inferiority (Luke 2:51). You dodged Romans 10:13. Try again.

[@fredrolinners8903]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 You dodged Romans 10:13. You referred to two passages instead, but without any explanation as to how they prove your heresy.

[@fredrolinners8903]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3iyl2imgMechNk

[@majafleur9646]

I wish the Univeralist Unitarian Church near me was biblical. They quote Buddha and call their sermons "meditations," which is fine, but at least give a mid to Christ Jesus and scripture.

[@awildaccountappears]

Super interesting. I love the shade thrown by the COGGC against other Christian denominations lol

[@mutsvaiv]

According to the comments...denying the Trinity, labels you a heretic and condemns you to the lake of fire?? Despite believing in Jesus as the son of God and the Messiah?...

[@copeandseethe9279]

Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah too.

[@mutsvaiv]

@@copeandseethe9279 no they don't. They believe him as the prophet, and that Jesus is no greater than their great prophet

[@samuelaliren870]

Yes. The trinity is required for salvation

[@mutsvaiv]

@@samuelaliren870 on what biblical basis?

[@StrategicGamesEtc]

Yeah, I think "heresy" is thrown around way to often. While I have no problem saying denying the Trinity is in factual error, I am not convinced it meets the criteria for heresy, which as I understand it, is that to believe it precludes one's being saved.

[@Plisken65]

If baptism is a devine requirement, then the thief on the cross was NOT with Jesus in Paradise that day. Because he wasnt baptized.

[@spiderb3367]

So, Arianism?

[@bandie9101]

thaaaats modalism, Patrick! :D

[@spiderb3367]

@@bandie9101 it’s like Arian Calvinist modalism lol

[@randydelaney7053]

How is that different from the Trinity? It is the Trinity.

[@anarchorepublican5954]

...∆ ...a sort of 1900 year-olde open wound... as a "primitive" small "t" trinitarian...I'd be the first to admit that "the Trinity" as a creedal test of fellowship seems, narrow, arbitrary, historically and even biblically obscure...but I've yet to meet a Unitarian, of any stripe (and they be legion...Arian, Modalist, or Humanist) to admit to the same ...

[@EssenceofPureFlavor]

I do think trinitarian Christians maybe get a little overly picky about how things are phrased sometimes. But this is next level. Modalists like in the UPC still believe in Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and that they are all God. They just understand the relationship a bit differently, as different manifestations of the same person, rather than different persons of the same substance. Denying Jesus' divinity though is utterly blasphemous, damnable heresy. Not Christian whatsoever.

[@jawnatutorow]

@@EssenceofPureFlavor would you mind referencing the scripture verse that says if you don't believe Jesus is God you're damned?

[@bandie9101]

this happens when you interpret 2000 years old writings without proper background knowledge and dont listen to people who actually knew them who have written those books!

[@justinfiorenzio7112]

An the 7th day Church of God

[@bobbystclaire]

They remind me of Jehovah's witnesses in their theology One of the main differences helper between them and Jehovah's witnesses is that Jehovah's women are not young earth creationist except when it comes to human beings

[@MgaTalunanKayo]

So everything is orthodox, but the Trinity. And how do they explain away John 1:1?

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

They probably don't. They just don't conclude the Trinity from it.

[@tarikhistory]

They explain John 1:1 according to its original language, which is different from english translation

[@jawnatutorow]

Deuteronomy 18:18-19

[@danirving]

They don't presume Logos was personal before incarnation.

[@danirving]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 Jesus was Trinity? Does that mean Jesus was Father Son and Holy Spirit?

[@onceamusician5408]

who is to say what is heresy? THE BIBLE. it is a logical self interpreting system. even if this principle is abused abusus non tollit usum (look it up)

[@mikewilliams6025]

CoGGC are like the ultimate theological edgelords.

[@Toetalwar]

conservativish? Unitarians? Now i've seen everything

[@tonythatorc971]

The CoGGC is not related at all to the Unitarian universalists

[@fluffysheap]

I like the theology, but they are too conservative for me.

[@andreaurelius45]

What is a baseless inheritance? It is one that if FORCED backwards upon the One who bequeathed it. ...one's own interpretation and the individual will to force Holy Scripture into a system of theology is unsafe. Jesus gave us a Church. Many, many who knew Holy Scriptures at the time of Jesus, did not accept him. ....clearly, a book is not enough. Orthodox Christianity is what was inherited. A correct inheritance works in only one direction. Keep the inheritance whole. ....the west has been tampering with it since the 4th Crusade. Look at what it has brought us.

[@Peachcreekmedia]

Wow heresy upon heresies here!

[@bobbystclaire]

They remind me of Jehovah's witnesses in their theology, except Jehovah's witnesses are not young young earth creationist accept any issue of humans, they believe that first human Adam was created in 4026 BCE

[@Patriot-oi7mj]

Way to far left for me.

[@anarchorepublican5954]

24:30...📚📖🧐💬despite the COGGC® underwhelming and yet predictable "infomationaless"/"history-less"/claims ... falling on denominationally deaf ears....I knew, I smelled a bit of the olde restorationist "Elder John Thomas" in their Acts 2:38 Baptismal waters .. an arch-villian arrogant arian of the first order... the re-baptist; "blessed hope, of the Abrahamic Faith" heretic; of early postmillenial (Alexander) Campbellism... Despite their protests to the contrary...and "1 God" bless'em to the bitter end for it... however in truth..."Truth-this side of the Kingdom" ...is not the COGGC just a split off from the Christadelphians???...one of their early leaders is listed as Benjamin Wilson (translator of "the Emphatic Diaglott", a 19th century Arian New Testament)...Wilson was certainly a Christdelphian at one time..their doctrines are almost exactly the same...just a bit less cult/ "weird" /insular and more non-denominational sounding ...😈"the Devil-only" is in the details... 24:36...a Matter of Theological Taxonomy: Christadelphians (and all their varied ilk ) have roots and rituals in ex-Campbellite Disciple John Thomas...many decades older than the Millerite movement....and thus should be classified with the Restorationist/Stone Campbell Family...not with the Adventist-Russellite Family...the Restorationist/Stone Campbell pedigree also the source of this denominations denials of Protestantism....something Millerite Adventists, even Arian Adventists rarely do... or rather did when they were still mostly Arians...

[@solarflare2137]

The church of God is the Holy Catholic Church, established by Jesus. We don’t need any posers establishing a church based off the message of “pastor” Billy Bob, thank you and God bless my Catholic brothers and sisters

[@Phill0old]

Indeed it is. Such a shame that those jackals the Roman Catholics keep claiming to be it. I believe in one holy Catholic Church which comprises of all who are truly believers in Jesus Christ our Lord. So that excludes the current Pope, most RCs, most Orthodox and most Protestants, etc. Few will be saved. All the groups who claim to be the one true church prove themselves false by making the claim.

[@gusloader123]

Solarflare213 - Wow! Do you think il popa will give you some bonus points for that silly post? Frankie the Hippie Pope is a disaster, and your Cardinals voted Bergoglio in. Corrupt and perverted people in high places. The God-breathed scriptures warn us about the R.C. Babylonian monster (The Vatican) and it's tentacles. NO place in Holy Writ does it say anything about some unmarried guy in Rome, Italy being the head of Christianity. You and other R.C. members would know that IF you would simply sit down and open a Holy Bible and start reading at Genesis 1:1 and keep going until you get to Rev. 22. The Lord Jesus Christ is the HEAD of His Church. That "Church" is made up of true believers around the globe. It is NOT a ritualistic group with statues plainly forbidden in the real 2nd Commandment as God gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai. The R.C. Vatican cult has bunches of leftover pagan influences from pre-Christian times. BTW- Simon Peter was a married man as were the other Disciples. The Vatican says Simon Peter was the 1st "pope". If so, then where are the wives of the R.C. clergy? How can a guy who is supposed to be celibate be called "Father" and give marital advice?

[@solarflare2137]

@@gusloader123 schismatics and Protestants will see the ground opened up for them faster than for the Pope or any cardinal. And don’t forget, the Catholic Church compiled the Bible, you don’t have a legitimate Bible, Protestant. You changed translations intentionally because your “Bible” was commissioned by the Freemason King James. Congratulations on maintaining Satan’s delusions, but if you’d like to become a saint like God intended, then you must seek God through His Church through which He Himself Established. One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church

[@Phill0old]

@@christskingdomiscoming5964 Protestants are a particular group of those who reject the extra biblical doctrines of Rome. It can't reasonably be said that Unitarians are Protestant just as it can't be said that Arius was Catholic. Heresies arise and by reason of the heresy those who hold it are outside of the church. Unitarians and Roman Catholics have this in common, they deny the clear meaning of scripture whenever it suits them. Often they appeal to human reason but only when they don't accept what the bible actually says, at other times mystery is the answer.

[@Phill0old]

@@christskingdomiscoming5964 The deity of Christ was a fully established belief before Paul wrote his letters. All bible scholars know this. His humanity was what was questioned.

[@thetraditionalist]

Another interesting denomination I never heard of although since they deny the trinity they are not christian

[@dansaber8435]

That was the problem the religious people had they couldn't hear or understand Jesus because they had their head in a book. Whoops

[@megameow321]

They are almost certainly correct that not only was Jesus himself not Trinitarian, but that the first Christians (his first generation followers) were not either.

[@iagoofdraiggwyn98]

@@megameow321 thats objectively wrong.

[@thetraditionalist]

@@megameow321 excuse me what

[@megameow321]

@@thetraditionalist There’s many reasons to believe that trinitarianism was not what the historical Jesus nor his first followers believed. I would suggest reading/watching Bart Ehrman’s explanation of how the trinity developed. Aside from that tho, you have to ask yourself: if the Trinity is what Jesus and his first followers taught, why was it a minority viewpoint for centuries? Why is it not explicitly in the Gospels? Why does Paul not mention or believe in it? And why did they need a whole council to decide this, if it was so obvious from the beginning?

[@RepublicofE]

When cult groups like this say their main heresy was found in the early church, what they mean is Gnosticism was popular at the same time and in the same places as early Christianity, and the Gnostics espoused a version of their heresy (unbelievers who die just stop existing, as an example for this group), and so that proves that the "early church" taught it, when in fact it was heretics who in most cases didn't even claim to be Christians, and when they did were quickly kicked out.

[@tophue7051]

Nice presentation on an oxymoronic group! Just happens that "Biblical" and "unitarian" doesn't go together.

[@billmartin3561]

Sola scriptura has resulted in so many heresies…

[@Phill0old]

And yet it is the only tool Jesus used to defeat the temptations of Satan. No traditions, no priests, just scripture. All scripture is God breathed. Do you know of something else that meets that standard?

[@bandie9101]

@@Phill0old > only tool Jesus used to defeat the temptations so what? Satan attempted by quoting the scriptures, so J replied with scripture quotes. it's divinely cool I admit but does not say to me that the revelation's entirety is written down.

[@Phill0old]

@@bandie9101 It says that Jesus only used what was written down. I'll take that over what anyone else would do.

[@bandie9101]

@@Phill0old you can not be serious stating that J only quoted the OT during his earthly ministry. He does it many in occasion, but He is Logos incarnate, all His actions, omissions, sayings - written down or not -, His very being is revelation.

[@Phill0old]

@@bandie9101 Since I didn't say that you are welcome to attach that straw man with all your strength. I also didn't say that everything written in OT times was scripture or that lemons are sweet but feel free to claim I did if it makes you feel better. If you have anything reasonable to say to address what I did say then feel free to do that.

[@RolandHutchinson]

I don't think that my Unitarian Universalist friends would be pleased by your charactarization of the word "Unitarian" as tainted. I know that I am not. Is so saying (as you did at 5:48), you seemed to depart from your usual and much appreciated even-handed and objective presentation of factual information about religious denominations and movements. I trust this was not your intension.

[@samuelaliren870]

So they're heretics

[@personaldove]

We are the true believers. We worship Elohim not a man.

[@samuelaliren870]

@@personaldove I can already tell that you are a heretic by how you use of the word elohim

[@justinfiorenzio7112]

The Watchtower org. Of jehovah witness, teach this very same thing

[@jackemmakem]

This church essentially says "Jesus isn't God but you can call him God and he's omnipresent...but he's not God"

[@Peachcreekmedia]

C'mon this is a total ripoff of UMC polity!!

[@isitover5549]

This sounds a lot like Jehovah's Witnesses.

[@bradfordbogan7248]

I just found this video, and I was about to comment that "OMG my family joined this heretical group" and the video starts with "Who to say what counts as heresy"................. but if you don't believe in the three historical creeds, you're a heretic. I don't make the rules, I just follow them.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

But note that statement is part of a quote, which is then immediately said to be an untruth. The full quote rejects the "Who is to say what counts as heresy" position in the first 30 seconds of the video. I do get the irony, because the group saying that is still Unitarian, but it seems like your comment misses the point of the quote altogether.

[@bradfordbogan7248]

if there is only one God, you cannot call another God, because there is only one God. By them explaining that Jesus can be called God negates their whole argument of one God. And if Jesus can be worshiped, then Jesus is God and cannot be separate from God................

[@bradfordbogan7248]

@@ReadyToHarvest Also, I paused the video and made the comment, it was just too much of a coincidence that this video came up suggested after watching the Bible students video, because I am a Lutheran priest and my family joined this denomination... I hadn't continued on with the video, just paused and commented.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

I get it. And it is funny that the quote seemingly contradicted your intended comment. I think you'll find the full video to be an accurate description of this group. Feel free to let me know if you have anything to add based on your experience.@@bradfordbogan7248

[@christianwalton7080]

Another self-proclaimed Christian church that botches the most key doctrine (thus botching most of the others): who and what God is. Arianism sure is a popular heresy

[@dansaber8435]

Yeah when you say stuff like that you look like the religious people that wanted Jesus crucified. And that's a real easy look for a religious person to slip into.

[@thetraditionalist]

indeed

[@dansaber8435]

@@thetraditionalist it was the people that knew scripture the best. The doctors of the law that wanted Jesus crucified.

[@christianwalton7080]

@@dansaber8435 actually, it was the people who were blind to the Scriptures fulfillment in Christ and their extra-Biblical traditionalism that Christ condemned. Jesus Christ Himself was overwhelmingly well aquatinted with the Scriptures and lived them perfectly. There's a reason that the VAST majority of NT books deal with false teachers: because there are plenty who would lead others away from Christ into damnation by heresy and blasphemous falsehoods.

[@dansaber8435]

@@christianwalton7080 what? I'm sorry I'm having trouble seeing you distinct from the religious people because you remind me of them.

[@samuelaliren870]

Anyone who denies the trinity or the divinity of Christ is going to hell

[@foxbat252]

Why do you believe that?

[@samuelaliren870]

@@foxbat252 it's two of the foundations of Christianity

[@mutsvaiv]

@@samuelaliren870 okay provide biblical evidence to suggest nontrinitarians are going to hell...

[@samuelaliren870]

@@mutsvaiv rejection of a core tenet of Christianity is the same as rejecting Christianity. Do you agree that rejecting Christianity prevents someone from being saved?

[@foxbat252]

@@samuelaliren870 So what? Salvation doesn't depend on being a part of a religion. It's about following Christ.