What is the 'Dissociative Surface'?

[@Rat_Queen86]

A lot of people assume that DID is visible. In my experience, it’s not. My alters wanted to hide from me as if they appeared, I would find out what they were hiding, which was the trauma. They were very good at imitating me to a point. It’s very spooky in a way. Those closest to me can spot them though and now, they are much more open with being themselves and not doing a weird imitation

[@inmydreamsibelong]

Mine hid in the way they appeared to me as spirit guides , ancestors, and higher selves, or demons. I didn't realize it was alters till after an amnesia to a switch I caught. One of my alters fed my child and I thought it was a ghost that did at first but it was just me (or an alter). My system still wants to pretend to be a singlet. And then there are those in my system that want to present as a system. Like using the term we instead of I.

[@inmydreamsibelong]

Mine is super covert. But a lot of people close to me could tell I had alters where I had no idea. They would mention they thought I had MPD as is was once known by. And I just ignored it. Didn't think I had it at all. Till 2021 when things got really crazy for me cause my system was showing themselves to me by the masses. I argue that DID is a spectrum. My system presents in every way you can think. Because I was programmed by professional programmers. Those who worked on MK Ultra and Monarch. And those involved in the Assembly of God church in Idaho. So my system was virtually undetectable. As I look back at my life I noticed all the things that was related to DID and my Alters etc. I am a shell host, a conduit for my alters to flow freely in and out of. Though full on amnesia switches can and do happen. They are more rare and only occur during times of immense trauma and extremely stressful times in my life. A few weeks ago an alter fronted and was fighting with our partner about his past with cheating. She got physical hitting him. I was co-con for some of it. Then I blacked out. I switched back in and I was laying on the ground. With my watch going off with a Fall alert. I had fallen. It reminded me of the time with an ex I fell to the ground paralyzed for about 20 min. During a time I felt I was being manipulated by my husband who had previously tried to unalive me a year before. A part switched in an I was paralyzed.

[@catalystcomet]

Thank you so much for this comment.

[@emmalyckajacobsson590]

​@@inmydreamsibelongis interesting, since myselves we included "God" as an alter. We are still confused about this, and would like to do a research about religious experience and dissociative disorders... but perhaps that has already been done...

[@TrannyWillis]

I have a friend with DID. I am friends with a few of his alters. It all depends if the host and/or alters feel safe. Not all of his alters feel comfy with me yet, and some do imitate and hide (I've been told by the host), but a few accept me and enjoy my company. Luckily, none hate me except the one who hates everyone. And I'm honored that my friend and his system is at best comfortable and friends with me, and at worst are simply unsure, but not fully terrified of me.

[@DIDHatchery]

People have no idea how much is active beneath that surface at any given moment. There have been times in my life where people told me I wasn’t trying hard enough-usually in relation to some menial task. What they didn’t know is 95% of my energy goes to outwardly controlling myself, while inside there are a number of nightmare circuses working their dark magic. People with DID are trying harder than most people can imagine, I’m convinced. Our efforts don’t show outwardly, though. I’m pretty sure I’m going to die younger than I should due to all the internal pressure I’m always trying to control for the convenience of other people. Sorry if I didn’t get the dishes done on time. Smh 😂 PS-Thank you for this video. 💜

[@thectadclinic]

You are welcome, it’s really easy to see why fatigue and this are often both happening.

[@lifetogether4782]

I completely relate

[@DIDHatchery]

@@thectadclinic For sure.

[@olivefusse483]

Exactly this

[@ryleerose8547]

dude what you said about nightmare circuses and dark magic.... wow that resonates. thank u for sharing ,, for realsies

[@debxwalters]

Thank you for this. Many people will have had overt dissociative behaviour 'beaten out of them' when they're young. I still believe it's not real sometimes because no one sees it. Shouldn't I be talking in different voices and wearing funny hats if I have alters? No, because i had to get on with life, and what happens Inside, stays Inside.

[@brandywilleford9157]

Yes!!! TY for this!! 💯 ❤❤❤❤

[@theresadutcher4750]

This is soo important. In my system it is pretty much a compulsion to look normal at all times and it only slips when severely triggered or in crisis. yet, when we meet DID professionals they are usually able to pick up the signs of the dissociative surface vs how ordinary people look in conversation. They say that once you learned how to see it, you see it. The duck is not perfectly still above the water. And just that helps me out so much because they just proved that they are actually a DID professional and not just claiming to be able to treat it.

[@thectadclinic]

True, I think there are a lot of therapists claiming to be specialists when they aren’t; that ‘label’ is earned only after years of focused work in this field.

[@Cathy-xi8cb]

This is why doing a solid evaluation is essential. There are few patients that are overtly dissociative and clearly have DID. Those are the easy ones to assess (The harder ones to treat). Develop good assessment and strong differential diagnostic skills. When there is amnesia, you are onto something. When there is self-harm, dig deeply. Then be willing to accept that apparently functional clients with severe trauma histories can have "splinter skills" that allow them to survive but not to live fully. When it doesn't add up, the question should always be, "How does someone with a massively traumatic childhood look/sound so functional?" Always check for addictions; tons of people are functional addicts. There are rare thrivers, but they aren't common, and tend not to swan into a psychotherapist's office. The more likely answer is that they have either an addiction or a dissociative disorder. Or both.

[@emmalyckajacobsson590]

Thank you, your description made me happy. "Dissociative surface", .. sometimes thick as concrete. Not possible to take down with bulldozers but it might work with soft and gentle care. Trust, pace and patience.

[@thectadclinic]

You are welcome!

[@emmalyckajacobsson590]

​@@GN315-pe6ul yes, we need to feel safe : and it is wonderful when we are. Then hope can meet us again.

[@dorothyjsweatt]

Checking in to see and hear you explaining issues never discussed is so stabilizing. Thank you, Mike.

[@thectadclinic]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jamygarcia9566]

I started drawing when I crashed and burned at retirement. It is a THING! Firstly, it allowed ME to recognize what was going on. Over time, I’m able to share and consider the drawings with therapist. Huge volume of drawings after 3.5 years!

[@dawnmarugame9744]

This makes so much sense to me. I have felt on the brink of complete emotional breakdown; suicidal or needing to destroy and then get on the phone and… bang! All my emotions and chaos disappear. The professional can’t put what I’m describing together with this calm, totally rational being. Then I put the phone down and within 3 seconds my emotions hit me with the same force. It’s exceptionally powerful, masterful disguising but so frustrating and exhausting too when people can’t see what is happening underneath. Thank you for sharing these videos. Knowing that this is common is helpful because I just don’t relate to a lot of other descriptions where alters are constantly switching and coming out. It takes a lot of trust/stress for them to come out.

[@lambchoppyboy]

This really explains beautifully! I was with a therapist for 6 years before she was able to help me get a diagnosis of DID. My alter came to the session really pissed off and she never saw that part of me before. It was a dramatic shift.

[@amigosamiguitos]

Thank you for this video. I feel like many professionals barely have any understanding of how hidden this can be and how much suffering comes along with having DID. I've seen so many psychologists who just dismissed my symptoms because I didn't show any overt DID signs during the first session. This just adds to the pain, even if I wanted to and if I wouldn't have been in denial, I would never be able to show the miserable things happening behind that front

[@mustachedmalarkey8838]

My system is so covert I didn't even know I had one until 2021. Now I am unscrambling years of evidence and making sense of things, and realizing my "inconsistencies" were alters.

[@Lenergyiskey358]

That is the saving grace of the diagnosis. All my life I have been like this and didn't understand. Such switches in behaviour, thought processes, actions I'd take I had no intention of taking, and always forgetting (well thinking I'd forgotten) what I had learned about something and wanting to put it into practice. It's an extremely frustrating existence that I at least have an explanation for now. Best wishes to you.

[@Jennifer-oq4zj]

In response to @must….. I totally relate to every word you wrote, thank you for sharing so concisely.

[@brandywilleford9157]

Getting a confirmation DX made my whole life suddenly make sense!❤❤🎉🎉❤❤❤❤

[@jameshughes3014]

I very much hope that practitioners who don't have a lot of experience with these disorders find these videos. Thank you for putting this out there. For me , one of the things about dissociation is that I'm great at disconnecting from things inside, so great at it that even when I really don't want to do that , I do anyway. it's not something I can control, and that makes therapy extremely difficult, and can even cause problems at regular doctors visits. I'm just not very in tune with pain or problems and it's sometimes impossible to turn off that disconnect.

[@chameleon-tq9mm]

Thank you Dr Mike, your channel is an absolute life saver, you breaking it all down helps so much 🙏🏻

[@thectadclinic]

Happy to hear that!

[@jazminebellx11]

This is helpful as always, especially about therapy. We have always been an overt system and in part, this led to such early notes being taken by therapists which in the end led to us being diagnosed first 20 years ago. But there has always been the person fronting and then the chaos underneath as you explained, especially when starting with a new therapist as we have just recently. Thankfully our new clinical psychologist has experience with DID so we have jumped in quite quickly with talking about system stuff, but not switching in front of her yet. Many are in the room, but will not come out to talk, as this takes time, we need to sense how she will respond first as a trust issue. Having this explained the way you have helps a lot. Thank you. We start our historical r*p* trail next week on the 19th of February. Our DID has had to be disclosed to the court and an expert witness (my old psychiatrist of 17 years) has written a report and will have to switch to the right Parts for the court case. Knowing that us having DID and everything involved with that is massively stressful, I worry about what the stress will do to us while in the witness box, It is like system trust is unveiling a bit due to the stress of the court case.

[@thectadclinic]

Good luck with all that, really, I hope you’ll be ok.

[@jazminebellx11]

@@thectadclinic thank you

[@brandywilleford9157]

That is terrifying 😢how did it go? I pray it went well for you❤

[@2biicoachingformndkarlotto317]

I realize that my inner life (as I see myself, which I actually was unconscious of, was in the Fawn area of the 4 F´s - co-dependent needy pushover, and what I wanted to be perceived as from the outside was in the workaholic Flight area of the 4 F´s - hyperactive, perfectionistic and maniacal workaholic hoping to get some recognition. I ended up in the Freeze area as a burnout couch potato with no energy or interest. I had been dissociative from my reality, my feelings, my values/boundaries, and my lack of direction.

[@ZijnShayatanica]

Wow, you described this so well... For me, "Fawn" & "Freeze" are the two leftover states when "Fight" & "Flight" are either exhausted or impossible. They aren't my default, but I think they've adapted to allow me to rest for a change... They didn't show up until I was much older - I was always a bit of a defiant spitfire & now I'm an apathetic people-pleaser... Or a people-pleasing PART is who shows up for most of my life, IDK the details yet.

[@annamolly1261]

Thank you so much for this. It describes what I have been failing to communicate to people who are aware but not understanding of the stress that I have to endure just forcing myself to front rather than letting everything in my system flow freely. Will be sending to my therapist.

[@flashread]

this made so much sens. you explaned exackly how I experiance it. and yes, my thearapyst is helping me and other parts of me to deal with the traumatic experiances. so much stuff is happening on the inside and I don't want other people knowing it when I'm around them, so I'm just pretening to understan the conversation that is happening, and I never tell other people that I'm not the same part from earlyer. it's a secret you know. My therapist is amazing, she realy knows how to handle my dissosiation sympotoms and explance to me what is happening. I thot that I was having a psychosis or somtihing. aparantly I was expariancing di personalitiation and di realitation. (sorry for all miss spelling, I'm dylectic with englis as my 3rd languge).

[@476f7474]

This explained a lot. So, we are definitely able to communicate past the dissociative barrier. But we trust only very few people. So, that's not optimal. Glad for online information like this because our therapist has a different specialisation but we haven't brought ourselves to try trusting someone else... It's really difficult but also a lot better than back when we were fully unaware of each other. Time is still weird but it's not as lonely and/or creepy anymore...

[@thectadclinic]

Glad to hear it, hope you work through things ok!

[@lilyl5492]

good to hear it's common to take ages finding serious dissociation, and that hiddenness is normal. a key role of the protective responses

[@Jesuslovesyou8525]

As a mother it's strange to have a child alter who tries to relate to my own actual children. Sometimes when I play with my kids I feel like I'm having to direct play between them and the alter also, it's all a bit much to navigate, usually we'll all just settle on a book in the end, that's easier

[@brandywilleford9157]

Yes!!! This! I'm terrified my little will totally front and now that the grandbabies are older they'll realize it's not Nene,they LOVED playing with"Nene"when they were younger but now I find myself not playing with them much at all😢😢😢

[@2946RY]

I have not critiqued Richard Klufts research it troubles me though that he has had malpractice law suits against him and I understand his DID program at Pennsylvania hospital was shut down. My concern here is that if you look hard enough for what you may want to see then you may well see it. Especially if that is your specialist area there could be a risk. Dig and dig until you see things which then you label. I think with clients from a trauma background can be quite vulnerable to any coercion and also can have people pleasing tendencies. I used to agree with what people told me I was, and their interpretation of me and basically give people a lot of what they wanted to keep them happy after all what do I know. I didn’t even realise I was doing a lot of it, I would convince myself that what they were seeing must be right. I had little self trust. Plus I could see therapists eyes light up when I agreed with them, aha moment. I am now more able to tell others this is me and this is what is happening for me. And be able to hold opposing truths and contradictions - gain access to that. Not to say that I cannot take and consider feedback, it is just I don’t take it as the gospel truth as much as I did. Though any attachment to a person can risk throwing me into that tendency. Then I get panic as have a tendency to try block my own internal thoughts and feeling trying to come to the surface, if in contradiction to what the attachment figure is saying. A lot of people ( and I used to do this all the time) may have been used to presenting to the world what they feel is expected of them in every given situation, yet internally there may be a lot more going on that the person may not even be away of. I have made decisions with incomplete information that was ‘hidden’ from me. Lack of awareness. Once you gain more access to your own internal processes then can start to notice more your own views and any cognitive dissonance that may need to be resolved for good decision making. As well as taking in the external and additional information as needed. You mention 'behind the scenes’.. I think that can relate to each persons internal world. I think this is something we all have and its quite normal for people to not share everything that internally goes on for them. I think where dissociation comes in is the disconnection to your own internal processes and keeping information out of consciousness, that is painful. I think at times due to how hard it is to continually repress parts of yourself, for some people aspects of themselves may show in behaviour usually under present day stress that may seem atypical for them. A bit like how people act when they are drunk and they end up saying things and doing things that may seem out of character. Except with dissociation the person is not drunk. Thats probably the overt stuff. For a lot of people yes there may be a self that is presented to the world which is not the whole story. Some past clinicians have called this ‘false self'- think it was winnicot. I guess that is what your video is meaning by a dissociative surface is the process of disconnection that keeps the rest of it out of play. I used to find it so hard to connect to myself when with another person. Thank-you for your video.

[@brandywilleford9157]

100% right on!!!

[@ichi_san]

Thank you this is very interesting. With the trend on media being the most obvious forms, this information is very interesting. I'm not sure what I'm going through tbh it links to trauma and dissociation stuff but mental health is really complex and hard to find what is going one

[@LittlePsyCrow]

Sienna Skye here again, commenting from a different account right now. Thank you for this. I really wish we could see you and work with you. I’m so desperate for help and every single door is closed. Just rotting away. Going on year seven of declining.

[@patriciascholarships6669]

Would you speak on when mute parts come to therapy? What are ways to manage sessions when this happens, especially if they are resistant to grounding or communicating?

[@growoldwithme5733]

For me, I mask as a singlet because when my alters fully front often, I have access to way too many trauma memories and I as a whole become very unstable. That scares me because I live with other people and I don’t want to be perceived. When I lived with just my partner for a year it was much more obvious, and I was super unstable. I don’t like most people witnessing that. Mainly because I fear they will think less of me. But also because I’m afraid of how I will feel about the whole world seeing it. It means let going of my ego to allow the outside world to have relationships with the other alters. I don’t really like sharing my time, or my sense of self-hood with the other parts.

[@CN-dv9nj]

This makes so much sense and right on time. I've internally given appreciative honest acceptance and asked for patience of the system w how I navigate for best outcomes. Over the past five days, I've been aware of separated characters one that I recognize as the me that was in the dark of a system existing. until the day they revealed what they had been preparing me to know. ie suspicious of what I hear blank spots and recogniing but not knowing someone newer in my circle. The alters seem to front in groups bc theres a lot of discussion in each moment re moving forward in word or action. I notice it in my physical flow vs hesitations. It's a halting, sort of a freeze frame. Like if I stop in the middle of brushing my teeth without putting the toothbrush under the running water, the toothbrush, arm head position is just stuck or frozen in place while some conversation is decided. I live alone so I'm unhindered from processomg what I can. I was invited out to a venue for a birthday party. One group of us was "suggesting" I stay home because of all kinds of what if's. I didn't want to disappoint the invitation and I believed in part of the basics of whyt it's important to be social and benefit from what having others in our life and that too much ispating implodes against joy and belonging and opens the way to depession dissatisfactions, Right says Maslow lol. So a bit on edge inside I dressed and was ready when friend came to pick me up. The friend is aware of the system and amazingly supportive as before I knew she irritated most everyone of us. BUT point is, when I walked into where our table group was, a compete hush gave way to a single voice, train of thought and present internally was the capable caring friendly person with a core focused on being aligned to my worjed for integrity. I felt very comfortable in my skin. There was only one person and a sense of what I experienced as me as the one who used to be unaware of or ABLE to deny and doubt "amnesias" or group conversations inside. So this video your content has been in the moment explained and identified what is going on. Eases my fear of I don't really know what maybe it's fear of imposter value or being what the mother said I was to all other people if I hadn't deceived them to really like me and eventually everyone would know I'm garbage. She projected a lot eh?

[@chameleon-tq9mm]

Thank you for sharing this, it’s really helpful for me as someone who has been struggling with denial/coming to terms with my system & fearing them. Your description of movement/flow & freeze is something I recognise. Wishing you well in your healing.

[@CN-dv9nj]

@@chameleon-tq9mm I thank you for telling us! I wish for you and your system acceptance of the value our will to move forward alive in the light and out of the dark we have known too well.

[@dawnmarugame9744]

I too absolutely resonate with your movement/flow/freeze. It happens a lot over sometimes the most basic of decisions or choices. Often only finding out when the choice or action has been taken or not knowing what was decided (medication in particular). Good luck with your journey. It sounds like you’re on a good path with being patient. Compassion has been the key to my healing process (very much still ongoing) 💗

[@CN-dv9nj]

@@dawnmarugame9744 Thank you for saying this. I had forgotten all about this. I really like the part that everyone disappeared and it was just me. I just today found a new perspective about confirming self love and kindness. Ongoing yes mame'.

[@dawnmarugame9744]

@@CN-dv9nj How cool that we’re resonating with each other. I love how sometimes there is such synchronicity when reading someone’s comments that just switches something on in our inner world at just the perfect moment. We keep going with the ongoing… and lovely to connect with you for a moment and cheer each other on in what can be such a lonely journey. Big 💗

[@dartcree8185]

My T. notices when I start dissing before I do. I don't think I push them down. I know I change values all the time. Change ideas of self worth, self confidence. Can I mask and be unaware of masking?

[@mksparrow5398]

Dr. Mike, every mental health professional I have seen through the years did not believe that DID is real....then the last therapist I went too, I mentioned I think I have a split personality, and that therapist almost immediately said "let me talk to your alter"...really???????? This is why, I have no trust in the mental health care available in America. Its sad, that to get any real therapy and understanding from a medical professional I have to rely on you and your channel...and my advocate.

[@vee-m28]

This is really helpful. If you haven’t already, I was wondering if you might talk about the idea of a “window of diagnosability,” which I think is kind of related, and what kinds of stress can cause dissociative symptoms to become more overt.

[@thectadclinic]

What do mean by this window?

[@vee-m28]

@@thectadclinicI've seen it mentioned in a few papers, but it seems to have originated from a clinician named R.D. Kluft. In a 2005 paper, he also mentions the fact that only 6% of DID cases are overt, but says that people whose symptoms are more subtle can become overt under certain circumstances, such as "psychosocial stressors, intercurrent traumatization, deaths or major events in the lives of those who had abused them, reexposure to traumatizers or locations associated with their traumatization, injuries or threats to their loved ones, [...] or intercurrent medical events." That's what he describes as the window of diagnosability. It's possible you've already talked about this, and I've just forgotten!

[@yj-kh5to]

Thank you again for this video!

[@ShivaSolentei]

7 years... Not worth it to be invalidated and traumatized all over again from “professionals” who are supposed to help you. Each one has their “pet” focus and no matter what, they will try and bend all symptoms to match their “specialty”. Can you imagine actually having DID but being diagnosed with BPD. You get persuaded into accepting things about you that aren’t true. And you get stigmatized for something you don’t have but you have been diagnosed with BPD because to a lot of professionals DID is not real or “very, very, very rare…”. Too exhausting to get the actual help you need. Causes too many problems that don’t need to exist. I’ll just tough it out till I am in my grave. When you step away from KZbin and DID specialists you find in the real world that these people are never to be found.

[@emmalyckajacobsson590]

I hope you find a therapist that can help you; not so obsessed with the diagnos itself, but who listens to you. And you can trust.

[@TiffanyTeaLeaves]

This is my experience too. No in real life opinions in the USA unless you have the means to pay out of pocket, and even then, it’s fairly impossible to find ANYONE with any amount of practical experience outside of major cities like NYC. If America wants to solve its poverty/homelessness/suicide problems it needs to acknowledge that likely all of those citizens are survivors of severe trauma who have systems that can’t “keep up with Jones’s.” No amount of “bootstrap” shaming will solve complex trauma and doing that as the working model for decades has landed us here. A huge chunk of the population slipping through the cracks their whole lives being told they’re just not trying/they just don’t want it bad enough/if they just put their mind to it… after so long trying to mask as a professional in advertising my system literally crashed. The alters who pull together for a career went on strike or something similar in alter world. They’ve just vanished. And I’m left trying to explain to everyone on my entire life why I suddenly can’t Rene r how to do my job, that it wasn’t ever me to begin with, and not sound like I’ve just gone stark raving mad. It’s dehumanizing to try to explain myself, at age 50. Nobody can believe why I’m telling them. Not even me half the time. Until I gaslight myself into trying again then realize I actually mean it when I say I can’t and I forgot how. It’s painful to have ones entire existence gaslight

[@indigo.and.dissociation]

We have a part who is literally called 'The Front' and is the main part who takes over when we need to 'appear normal'. In terms of overtime/covert, I assume this is fluid and can change over time? Eg we became much more overt when having therapy, when we felt supported and things felt safer, whereas when that stopped prematurely, we have gradually closed down again, and that 'front' exists as the covert norm again. Also just got the book you're describing - just started reading the theories section ✨🌸

[@phoenixrichter1397]

This is something we struggle with. Our host (me) is very aware visually and co conscience a lot so a lot of alters didnt come forward in therapy. But ohhh do they talk internally lol😅

[@brandywilleford9157]

Ha lol,don't they tho😂😂😂 yack yack yack alllll day!

[@phoenixrichter1397]

@@brandywilleford9157 oh yes definitely!!

[@jacintaphillips1439]

Oh so many voices! I believe i know of 3 parts but I sense and hear a lot more. It's very beneath what the world sees! Trying to build trust within myself is the most difficult thing, I think I'm slowly achieving this and then hopefully I can trust others. Thank you for another great video 😊

[@thectadclinic]

You are very welcome!

[@elizabethmansfield3609]

Thank you as ever

[@izzy6455]

If those 'disembodied feelings' are expressed as voices different from your own and have personas/show an image of a person attached to the feelong (tho no active or known personality) could those voices still be counted as alters? I have alters with names who have communicated in some way but there are also screams and crying etc and also just waves of feeling that have an ora of a person e.g. one is a middle aged wan with black hair, etc. Are these a type of alter? There have only been a handful who have ever communocated directly, talking or sending feelings and so on. Thank you for very clear and useful video!

[@elikiia]

Its not even visible for myself half the time. let alone anyone. I currently do not feel like anyone in particular. Like i dont even feel like an individual at all..

[@thectadclinic]

Sorry to hear this, the confusion of self can be really rough to live with.

[@childoflight3388]

I joke that I need to put my human suit to function. Functioning in daily tasks is so difficult usually I'm on autopilot. I believe this is the responsible adult me. Not sure if this is who I truly am but its what I need to be for my kids.

[@kalidoscope3270]

Do you have or would you make a video on the differential diagnosis and the comorbidity with autism and adhd? Thx 4 your amazing work!🙏💝🥰

[@fseesauras]

I wish I could get treatment at this clinic

[@michelleverhoeven4363]

Since I act like normal (due to society standards), and my alters stay most of the time hidden it prevents me from getting the help that I need. If I have an intake at a psychologist it seems that I’m doing just fine. Do you have any tips for this. I don’t get help at the moment since I act fine, but I know I have alters.

[@annklonl5207]

Maybe you can find a therapist with experience in DID? You could also mention that you dissociate and (seem to) have alters but also use a lot of energy to appear "normal" during your first exploratory session with your therapist?

[@kiwi_rainbows]

As an alter who fronts with some frequency but isn't the main fronter, I can suggest asking your alters to list issues and symptoms that they want you to address with the clinician. It can be practical to tell the clinician that appearing "normal and well" is part of the condition and part of the role of the main fronter especially. Hope that helps.

[@michelleverhoeven4363]

@@kiwi_rainbows this does help. Thank you so much.

[@jesmer-sam3811]

Thank you . This is so helpful and I can so relate. My parts only come out when feeling safe or feeling triggered or they come and go and my family and friends just see this shift as mood swings or know this part of me well they don’t realise it’s - alter. I get a lot of I’m acting badly or my behaviour is unacceptable and I swore or acted angry or etc and they pull me up - I don’t recall a thing. But it is subtle or it’s so out of character they think I’m acting like a *bitch. But once your family and friends begin to try and understand the signs and changes of behaviour or body language or the voice or gestures or even the way you dress . They will see the signs and begin to see who’s out and who’s fronting. They should try and learn and understand you and the changes and then they can see it ( it’s not subtle to them anymore. The alters can’t hide as much lol

[@aidanw-j3091]

Wow so interesting, it’s been almost exactly 7 years of mental health care for me now, what a wild ride it’s been.

[@NeverlandSystemPixie]

Ours wasn't super visible for A LOOOOOONG TIME... not until it was discovered by others and shattered the separation between us all and THAT made it more open cuz like well....

[@laurag7936]

7 years would have been easy… 19 years of the system telling me I’m making it up/not ready/some other label… finally after going through the SCID-D with them they still say “we think we can agree that you are experiencing significant dissociative symptoms but we are not going to give a diagnosis because it won’t influence your treatment pathway” … been thinking about this for a few weeks since then and just realising that this doesn’t make sense… surely the diagnosis informs the treatment?!

[@sandyb2523]

Hi Dr Lloyd, As you know, finding a DID experienced Therapist is not easy. What are qualities to look for in a Trauma therapist? What are questions that you would ask them? What do you need to know upfront? What are the red flags to watch for? Thank you

[@thectadclinic]

Hi sandy, hopefully most/all of these questions will be answered n the mini-series on this topic. Thank you!

[@rainygreene9161]

So a person with DID has alters and they can communicate... well, do you know if they sound as if they have different voices or if it's the personality and position that make the difference? Do they all present with names?

[@ayeayesailor]

This wasn't a clear explanation to me from the video- it would be nice to have some examples!- googled the work and found it really interesting.

[@thectadclinic]

Noted!

[@rhael42]

This, tbh. It would've been nice to have a description of what it actually _is_ or looks like in addition to simply pointing out its existence, along with examples of how it may manifest.

[@thectadclinic]

@@rhael42 I’m not sure you got it, the ‘surface’ is just that, a threshold by which some dissociation will pass, and some won’t, depending on all the factors described in the video. Hope that helps!

[@jesmer-sam3811]

I had a part now who I’m co con with who integrated to a point where I’m present halfway helps me with daily life and on the surface I can come across very well presented and organised and communicates well. But I feel like I’m watching but watching from an outsider. Like an out of body experience. But it fools people into thinking I’m more well and together than I really am. It’s very on the surface and it helps me cope with life.

[@Lenergyiskey358]

Hi Mike. I just did a search for Richard Klufts book and couldn't find it. The title came up as a book but it was edited by 4 other people. Richards name was not on it. Could you please give me the details because I'd like to look at it. Thanks for all you do.

[@thectadclinic]

That is the book, RK writes the chapter I referenced, but lots of different editors.

[@Lenergyiskey358]

@@thectadclinic Great. Thankyou.

[@spaceybun]

👏🏻

[@farinshore8900]

So the dissociative surface is the armour I wear ?

[@itisdevonly]

My OSDD has always been very covert. To outsiders, it probably just looked like mood swings, if anything. I have certain alters that always take the front when we're around other people, in order to maintain consistency and keep the mask intact. Ironically, it's only as I've been healing my trauma and the dissociation has gotten less severe that my OSDD has become more visible. And that's because I've increased my ability to feel safe and trust others, so with the people closest to me, I'm not hiding as much of what's going on under the surface, and I will let certain alters communicate directly with others, which they weren't allowed to do before. I'm also doing more exploring with curiosity and I'm able to connect more with different parts and have a bit of control. In the past the barriers between them were much stronger.

[@catalystcomet]

I'm curious, when you say that this is pertaining to OSDD, but then reference DID being 93 or 94% under the surface, are you talking about OSDD or DID? I'm basically trying to understand if DID is much more covert than a lot of people seem to believe it is. Trying to do my best to understand myself a little better

[@thectadclinic]

The ‘surface’ contains both, but the diagnosis of DID relies more on visibility

[@catalystcomet]

@@thectadclinic oh ok, so people with DID nearly always present overtly?

[@Star-dj1kw]

✅ interesting

[@Jennifer-oq4zj]

Well that explains why I had a fairly ‘normal’ life and a very professional career with my ‘work’ head on and survive 50years in a perfect relationship with my husband until the week I crashed and burned before slowing trying to accept that the love of my life soulmate was a narcissistic psychopath! I think I knew, I think I still don’t believe it.

[@Jennifer-oq4zj]

In fact it also explains why I was diagnosed with EUPD plus loads of other things for several years. What would I do without your input, thank you Dr Mike

[@crazycatboysolomon7006]

"Beneath the scenes" is a bit of mixed metaphor

[@thectadclinic]

Yeah, meant to say behind the scenes…

[@user-jm6ds5dz3t]

It’s a stress response . an ohverwhelming stress response a default/ed adaptive 🤷‍♂️

[@fafster5368]

Any Advice on what to do about workplace abuse, as well as abuse when trying to learn because you are different.

[@thectadclinic]

We can’t provide individual advice on issues, sorry.

[@plantman4444]

I feel frustrated hearing you use language like belief and thinking. If one does not have direct experience with dissociation, how are they going to help the person they are guiding through it? When you meditate on dissociation, the focusing aspect of the mind scatters and a wavering like a flag of doubt arises, which prevents focus and can create a sense of powerlessness and 'freefloating'. Even after years of meditating under Tibetan Buddhist instruction, this experience can be very difficult to witness within myself. I find it very frustrating to imagine that those helping others with things like dissociation aren't acting from their own experiences but from conceptual, non-experiential knowledge learned through data and statistics. This doesn't help the person being 'pushed to the back of their mind', who may not have conscious awareness from one moment to the next. They need practical, down-to-earth advice. Meditation, mindfulness, and knowledge of the difference between the knower and the things known are the only things that have helped me. The person in therapy, if they try and look at the dissociation without being able to ground or hold a single point of focus through meditation, will succumb to a hazy-like cloud that arises in their mind as to prevent them from experiencing whatever has been so intense as to create the dissociation. It is true that creating a safe space for people to begin to allow what's under that cloud to arise is necessary, but to do that without giving them the skills to handle what will arise is silly. It will end up retraumatizing them, and it just doesn't seem to work in the cases of people doing it. It's hard even when you know it is there; even when you know dissociation is occurring, you can just lose yourself in the haze or become confused and panicked. How is it that someone with textbook knowledge and no experience of dissocation guides a person through it? They do not; they talk about data and statistics, and they agree upon concepts that don't deal with direct experience but with ideas gained through observing the outer signs of other people. It's insane. I appreciate the good intent, but it comes across as naive and lacking in experience. People just needed to be guided through the situation and helped to understand it directly from within. The tatse of a banana isn't understood through concept or language, no matter how skilled or wise the person describing it is. Likewise, you just don't know how to handle dissociation until you're forced to learn how to handle it, and even then, it's a constant learning curve. Your insights on things hidden seem accurate from my own experiences of meditating with dissocation , but they are useless. Even if you know the dissociation is hiding something, you, as yourself, have to court that part of yourself and enable that aspect of yourself to be safe enough to arise. This is never easy and is a constant balancing act. I don't believe, from my own experience, that dissociation can be solved through therapy. Only through developing the skills to experience and process the pain that was too much at one point does it seem to work. This allows for true transformation and inner alchemy; everything else just addresses the symptoms and avoids the root. The root is all that matters to those of us with dissociation; the academic side of things is meaningless when you're suffering. We want to know how to transform the cause of our suffering and be free of it. That should be the sole focus.

[@thectadclinic]

If you saying that only therapists who are, or have been dissociative through trauma, can help people with dissociation, then I fundamentally disagree. Therapists do not need to have experienced the condition they treat.

[@plantman4444]

You can be dissociative through more than trauma. Did you know medical doctors often try the medication they prescribe as to better understand it and it's experience for the patient? Perhaps you could do the same. It's a common practice in many parts of the world to invoke the mental dis-ease you're working with in another, in yourself. In this way you have to heal yourself, and then you have actual experience to be able to help them. You're using textbook knowledge of something you have never known directly. You may be able to help, but much like a man trying to relate to the entirety of a woman's lived experience, there will be things you cannot understand and ways you cannot truly relate in. This means you will be blind to ways in which people need help, because your knowledge is limited. You're relying on the information a person with no idea of what's occuring is giving you; who may not have full conscious awareness of what's occuring. Those with experience not only of dissociation, but of recovering from it, are better equiped as to know and teach the challenges of that with others doing the same. @@thectadclinic If it suits your bruised ego better, sure, you can help without direct experience, but it won't be nearly as effective or receivable for the one trying to heal. People know you don't know, they feel it, and as long as your knowledge remains conceptual, you don't know. You're guessing and experimenting on a patient, hoping to 'get the right thing'. Many therapies deal with the here and now, you don't always have to go into the past because it's already playing out in the present. With dissociation especially, immediate coping and grounding skills need to be taught and communcited somehow, in whatever form of language the person needs. Be it verbal or non-auditoy or otherwise. It isn't about you thinking you can help. It's about asking the question, what is affective, what actually works? And what is for my personal feeling of self importance? Defending yourself in the above manner shows you only care for the self importance. What helps the undoing of their cause of suffering should be the question, and your image shouldn't matter. Check your intent sir.

[@plantman4444]

And as someone with schziophrenia, no, they cannot. People without experience of psychosis have no idea, and always project their conceived image onto you. They don't respect you enough as to ask, and they always do harm in their implication that your 'progressive brain disease' is some kind of terminal illness. It isn't. There are things one can do to experience fear without fear, but unless it comes in a pill you don't really give a shit do you? What helps the patient? People care that little that we invest more into funding telescopes to be sent to pluto than we do answering that. It is not in the line of work of therapists to heal people, you wouldn't have a job if it worked or was effective. Evidently from the state of the mental health systems that do exist, you aren't working.

[@fafster5368]

Is there any way to ask for asylum, if i am being forced not work? by using a psychiatric illness as an excuse.