What is the future of Madison Square Garden?

Discussing MSG in New York City

[@TheLiamster]

MSG is a great arena but it should have never been built in its current location. The demolition of the original Penn station (which was an iconic piece of architecture) was a huge mistake

[@91_C4_FL]

This^

[@abp1400]

Absolutely this

[@CG-ry9ne]

Completely agree. You can always move a stadium but you cannot move the rail infrastructure of the busiest rail station in the western hemisphere

[@albertsancho5909]

They should've built MSG in Queens near Shea stadium.

[@reignkaida]

@@albertsancho5909🤮

[@Adam_Guidry]

I’m from Texas and out of all the arenas I have ever been to, MSG is the best I’ve ever been too. Watched Boxing bouts, and Knicks games. Nothing comes close to the energy you feel in there.

[@king_has_no_clothskul8635]

hello. there is nothing small in texas. TEXAS GUY GOING GAGA OVER NYK IS A BIG NO. I KNOW TEXAN ARE ACCUSED OF GUY CRAZE BUT IT IS ALWAYS BIG IN TEXAS.

[@Chris6d]

It's an NBA and NHL arena. Not just an NBA arena. And it's not going anywhere, the governor wanted Dolan to move it but he already confirmed that's not happening

[@michaelmarkowski204]

MSG was originally designed and built as an NHL arena. Basketball came later.

[@Chris6d]

@@michaelmarkowski204 Exactly

[@michaelmarkowski204]

@@Chris6d Speaking of which. Leafs Fan here. Hope the Rangers win the Cup.

[@Chris6d]

@@michaelmarkowski204 Hope so m8

[@marblox9300]

How ironic that a venue called square is actually round.

[@king_has_no_clothskul8635]

Hmm. very smart. but it is round in a square peg? it is american paronia to get away from british. normally we call city center as circles and not squares like american driving right while british drove left!! And ameircan playing baseball instead of cricket though technologically both are partners in crime. americans were bereft of british exploits!! that is why ASTON MARTIN IS RAGE IN BAY-AREA AND THAT TRIUMPH MOTORCYCLE!!!

[@SuperDave30]

I’m glad you did a great topic about Madison Square Garden, MSG is one of my favorite sports venues, it been rumors in New York talking about building a new arena but I believe MSG isn’t going anywhere or being demolished in the future it’s famous and legendary sports venue of America, but the crazy part Penn Station sits on top of the arena of the basement level Penn Station inside is like underground city since has retail space and restaurants and all the trains track Platforms are beyond underneath.

[@RJ4O4]

Forget all the sports related events. For me that place is SACRED GROUND as the first place i ever saw a concert as a young teen. Taking a train from Ct. my best H.S. friend and i arrived. June 25th, 1975. The hottest concert and tickets that could be had. The Rolling Stones. NYC. Madison Square Garden. I went into that place as one person and came out...another. My entire DNA changed that night. I'm still not over it.

[@stephenadams5223]

$1.5B in renovations? What kind of inflated cost structure is this? Is this to line the pockets of stake-owning politicians ?

[@mattyg4186]

Owner paid for the renovations himself as far as the outside that was the plan to fix up the entrance to Penn to avoid having to cough up a $100 Billion to build a new arena and new Grand unnecessary Roman & Greek architecture of a train station that people will be p*ssing on and throwing their trash in

[@LeonNeuton]

What? Up to 10 Billion dollars in costs...

[@stevenbeadles7838]

Never been to MSG, would like to go there once for a WWE event.

[@xlortiz]

TONS of homeless people on the same street as MSG

[@Raphmatic5000]

I've ONLY been to MSG for WWE events, my first house show was in 2001, I've been there like 6 times for house shows. Never a raw or smackdown, they're a bit more expensive than Barclay's, tickets sell quick and scalpers charge a lot.

[@marblehillpjs]

it's amazing for wwe events

[@Alan-lv9rw]

I saw the Eagles (their “Hotel California” tour) at MSG in 1977. I’ve also seen the NBA, NHL, college basketball, and the Harlem Globetrotters there. I grew up at MSG and love it. I hope it doesn’t get torn down, but nothing lasts forever.

[@master-kq3nw]

Msg must stay forever temple of basketball 🏀

[@kurtpunchesthings2411]

i think it would be a Travesty if they tear down one of the most iconic arenas in America so much history here among many historical events this is where Joe Frazier defeated Muhammad Ali in Fight of The Century it should be added to the National Monuments list and become a Protected Structure

[@SofaSpy]

What's ironic is that they actually tore down the most iconic train station in America Penn station to build Madison square garden. Old Penn station was a tourist attraction. Imagine knocking down the empire State building to build a basketball arena, That's what they did with Penn station

[@darryljorden9177]

The irony is that the same preservationist fervor that was spawned by the destruction of Pennsylvania Station now is directed towards maintaining the Garden (which has now existed for more years than Penn Station did).

[@mattyg4186]

@@SofaSpy MSG has now stood longer than old Penn did and is prob closer to landmark status than Penn ever was

[@stevesalpeter3825]

You’ve missed the boat on this one….MSG does not own the air rights above Penn Station. NYC can revoke their lease and it doesn’t matter that they poured in a billion to the area a few years ago. Please research before posting video!

[@NHLCrazy2007]

The $900 million of renovations were completed in 2013.

[@user73958]

The City Council is not a fan of Dolan, they could care less he spent $1 billion on renovations. They did renew the lease, but not for a long time.

[@NHLCrazy2007]

@@user73958 I think for another 5 more years. I believe that is through 2028.

[@maveric585]

Dolan doesn’t even pay property tax! They have been fighting for years now so don’t be surprised if they tear this place down😊

[@NHLCrazy2007]

@@maveric585 Correct. And that is why he has been fighting tooth and nail to stay exactly where his arena is. This dates back to when he took over that property tax exemption when he became the arena owner in 1997. He fought and derailed the proposed West Side Stadium for the 2012 Summer Olympics and New York Jets. He has had so much power in the area that it has impacted development in that part of Midtown Manhattan. Madison Square Garden may be an iconic arena, but it should not stop economic progress and recovery. And I'm both a Rangers and Knicks fan, so I won't be against what is best for the city and not for a single owner.

[@gordonalsop8537]

Someone want to tell this guy at an NHL team plays at this arena too? I mean, The Rangers are in the Eastern Conference finals right now.

[@phillipbruno4443]

Went to see Janet Jackson last May (2023) at this venue. Really impressive building. Just discovered this channel. Great videos regarding Twin Towers and stuff related to 9/11. Always been a bit fascinated by that horrendous event. Again, great channel, great delivery and easy to follow. Best wishes from the UK 🇬🇧

[@BoulderCityBlues]

Saw lots of great bands at MSG when I was growing up including sitting in the first row for The Rolling Stones in 1975 ..

[@RJ4O4]

June 25th, 1975. My first concert. The Rolling Stones. NYC. I'm not over it yet. Surely you understand. 😃

[@kjjam8121]

If they were to ever demolish the Garden, I am disowning this city, packing my bags, and claiming another city abroad. Don't you dare.

[@SofaSpy]

This is actually the third or fourth Madison square garden. There were other ones in New York City with prior at different locations. And besides New York Penn station was there first before they built the glorified washing machine. The original Penn station that got demolished was the national travesty, it was one of the most iconic buildings in America at the time

[@master-kq3nw]

This arena is from 1968 tradition

[@soldjaslimm3157]

Yep

[@BuckFieri]

You mean the city that tore down yankee stadium?

[@kjjam8121]

@@BuckFieri I get you but to be fair, they built the new one right next to it, and the old yankee stadium didnt receive a billion $ renovation 10 years ago. Also am not a yankee fan so cannot relate there ha

[@JosephWoolf-ct4bt]

Last December I saw the band Kiss play their final two concerts of their end of the road tour at Madison Square Garden!

[@robertwoods4457]

If they do anything to the garden, it’s probably going to be the windows, maybe an overhang. And Penn station isn’t going anywhere. And the garden. The federal government is funding a massive railroad project from jersey going into the city. So MSG is staying

[@Chris1982416]

It’s the Wrigley Field of basketball. Where the GOAT destroyed the Knicks so many times. Where Scottie did the most disrespectful dunk in nba history.

[@HandsomeBlackMan619]

You forgot about the Rangers

[@mrguystarr]

There used to be a big bowling alley inside MSG... I went as a teen. It's gone now.

[@master-kq3nw]

This is more then arena dont ever demolished this temple Knicks must play here imagine all legendary players played here

[@justinwarner1183]

That's not saying a lot, knicks haven't had great history in this arena.

[@master-kq3nw]

They won two titles

[@Alan-lv9rw]

It’s a UConn Huskies home court. They played there nine times in the 2023-24 season.

[@jaimerosado3896]

I just want to point out that while MSG may be standing in the way of Penn Station correcting its problems, it certainly didn’t cause them. Penn Station’s biggest problems stem from the fact that it was designed to function mainly as a through station, but instead today functions mainly as a terminal station.

[@GLad346]

the new facade is so nice

[@MrRapmaster19]

At this point, it's not going anywhere. They just did a bunch of huge renovations to the Penn Station area both across the street and under MSG, and facade of Penn 2 attached to the building was pretty much rebuilt. Only thing I can see happening is the theater at MSG being demolished to make room for a new Penn Station entrance. Otherwise, MSG may get a facade replacement, but no way it's getting demolished.

[@Racinggood]

Madison square is the goat

[@SuperDave30]

Facts!💯

[@pappy4075]

What and where is the felt forum. What types events there thank you

[@retroguy1976]

now the theatre at msg its still there

[@whophd]

I’ve just begun a Futurama marathon for the next few weeks, so my answer is clear: Madison Cube Garden

[@gregthegroove]

I’d completely go Sphere in Las Vegas with The Garden. The entire outside should be one giant huge circle LED. They can even show the game inside with a camera point of view that looks like it’s invisible and you can look inside from the exterior.

[@Jorge-lh6px]

Oh hell no, that would be a terrible idea. The Sphere is already a joke.

[@marblehillpjs]

It’s not going anywhere. Dolan has not budged and no one has been able to force him out

[@ravespartalive6496]

The Rangers are the #1 tenants at msg. Many are dumping basketball for obvious reasons. It IS the world's most famous arena no matter what the haters have to say.

[@FrankSinatrq]

I first knew about MSG when Mr. Sinatra came out of retirement on October 13th (my birthday!) of 1974 when he than preformed there.

[@tomace9767]

The track/platform level is what needs to be renovated, more escalators and staircases, shit is cramped and takes 5 minutes just to get up to street level when the train empties

[@carlfromtheoc1788]

It will be remade as the Madison Cube Garden.

[@barbaracaroll]

Msg is the the world's most famous arena

[@bb-gc2tx]

msg is perfect example of why there is no need to replace both stadiums in Kansas city yes both stadiums are older but they serve their purpose and still look great

[@fullnelson9999]

MSGs best attribute is being centrally located. Stadiums in KC are not centrally located. You're arguing against your own opinion.

[@bb-gc2tx]

@@fullnelson9999 my point is there is no need for these multi billion dollar new stadiums that tax payers have to pay for when the old stadiums are perfectly fine in the chiefs and especially royals case the stadiums are still some of nicest in the league

[@michaelmarkowski204]

MSG = the only Original Six NHL arena still being used. I think it's great.Leafs fan here. Leafs moved out of MLG decades ago. Also, MSG was originally designed for the Rangers, not the Knicks.

[@brabblemaster401]

For one MSG needs to go or at least the Hulu Theator taken out due to Penn Station needing room for expansion. Not because it's old. Penn Station is extremely crowded and doesn't have room to expand even though it's it's the busiest train station in NA. With amtrak, LIRR, MTA all having tracks underneath.

[@bb-gc2tx]

@@michaelmarkowski204 im ilsles fan and hate isles new arena the small town feel of going isles games is totally gone they refurbished coliseum few years ago they could of easily stayed there and had a special building now they jut have an arena thats just like all other ones in league

[@marvinwhittaker]

Old Yankee Stadium was a landmark. I'm surprised they tore it down to build the new Yankee Stadium. MSG makes up the city of New York. I can't see The Knicks going anywhere else.

[@donwert70]

The old (landmark) Yankee stadium was demolished in 1973 and rebuilt for the 1976 season. It was then torn down for the new stadium which opened across the street in 2009.

[@marvinwhittaker]

@@donwert70 Wow!! I didn't know that.

[@lsantang]

Dolan wants to build a sphere in Hudson yards .. his lease on MSG is up soon,

[@dwaynerichardson5380]

If MSG could be convinced to sacrifice the Hulu Theater, the arena could be saved.

[@JD_Walker]

I believe this is the end game. The renderings of the squared off area around the garden I believe are for that concept. Dolan is trying to extort as much as he can out of the city to give up Hulu Theater portion of the Garden but leaving the arena intact. Personally, they should have torn down the useless 2 Penn Plaza office tower and then rebuilt Penn Station on that side, that way they could keep both MSG and build a new Penn Station. Or they should just build a new state of the art 5th Madison Square Garden at either Hudson Yards or two blocks east of the current spot at Herald Square which would still be easy access to all the train lines. The city I think only granted the most recent air rights permit for another 5 years, after an extension of only 10 years from the original 50 (which coincided with the big renovation). It's the most important train station in the Northeast, and the non-public facing areas of MSG IV are still quite dumpy. Instead of needing to pour another $5 Billion renovation in another 10 years, just build a new one that's ready by then.

[@Joshdyisdifh]

Maybe it will become Madison Cube Garden?

[@Soakilla92]

2:48 - 2:53 you were spitting hot 🔥🔥🔥

[@skidmarks4360]

Perhaps 2030, but by that time the MTA would've already built their solution, so it's demo isn't likely.

[@mattyg4186]

That’s 100% why the city will not win, they have no concrete plan or funds to pay for a new MSG, demolish the current and build a new grand old architecture Penn station. Neither the city, state or both can afford it and the taxpayers will not cough that up, Dolan invested his own money into the renovations which is what all these cheapskate billionaires should to to their stadiums and arenas around North America.

[@harrism84]

Rumor is that Stephen Ross has offered space at Hudson Yards to build a brand new arena.

[@Drew791]

One of the best UFC venues

[@sweetmapleleafs]

MSG has one thing in common with churches in the US--they are tax exempted. They pay no property taxes. It's been that way since Ed Koch was mayor. James Dolan will never even entertain the thought of having his teams play its home games anywhere else than MSG as it would mean waiving the Garden's tax exempt status. The city would have to be stupid enough to carry the exemption onto the new MSG, in which case there would be so much pushbck by the rest of the city who pay its lion share of taxes. If Dolan doesnt have to pay his fair share, why should we?

[@Jorge-lh6px]

That’s why they haven’t entertained any discussion of extending his lease. It’s over for MSG, and I’m glad given that commuters in the Northeast will benefit greatly.

[@Bren_Farrell]

Tf did St. John's catch a stray for ??

[@Davyboy87]

If they don't make the next stadium Madison cube garden I don't want it 😂 those who know know .

[@Davyboy87]

@@michaelmarkowski204 idk I just like cube it's a reference to futurama lol

[@Wizardsleave69]

Madison Cube Garden...

[@robertkeller4660]

Renovation missed key areas like the exit corridor, looks like a fucking NYCHA building

[@Jazzfan22]

First view!

[@tylermanzi2190]

I just find out that even if the Twin Towers are gone that there are many different twin small towers in cities! Or if not a twin but a 1 tower that was designed by the same guy who designed the twin towers

[@Chris1982416]

In Chicago we have AON tower which we still call it the Standard oil building 😂. Looks exactly like the WTC and was the tallest building in Chicago till they finished the Sears Tower.

[@abp1400]

LMFAO! The rendering of the like station as a ring around the stadium reminds me of the current veteran memorial stadium in Chicago, the dumb stadium within a stadium. It looks terrible.

[@hawlikd]

Maybe athletes like MSG, but is sucks for fans!

[@mattyg4186]

NYC are out of their mind if they think can afford to tear down msg & rebuild Penn station it would cost taxpayers in New York State & NYC billions and billions. Leave MSG alone the owner payed for a billion dollar renovation and the exterior renovation is much cheaper than moving the arena

[@SofaSpy]

The owner doesn't own the land nor the air rights, it's leased from a year to year basis. And having a proper train terminal and corridor, which over 10% of the U.S. GDP uses, is necessary than keeping an arena. So we should shrink our GDP so we can watch basketball and hockey, makes sense. Even me, who is a major sports fan think MSG should relocate

[@zo62]

They need penn station and space more than fucking arena

[@mattyg4186]

@@SofaSpyif NYC wants MSG to relocate then NYC can fully fund it themselves which the taxpayers will say no so nyc should just give up on rebuilding grand old Penn station and just keep expanding into the old post office

[@Jorge-lh6px]

@@mattyg4186 Hell no, we as a city need a refurbished terminal. MSG is a joke, and adds nothing of value to our city.

[@Jorge-lh6px]

@@mattyg4186If anything, Dolan should’ve bought the rights when train travel wasn’t that big a deal as it is now.

[@MiggerPlease]

THEY GONNA TEAR IT DOWN SOON FOR THE NEW TRAIN STATION

[@supremebugs]

Cap 🧢

[@retroguy1976]

no they already renovating penn station inside and out plus they have the moniyhan train hall across the street which is a extension for amtrak and LIRR customers/ MSG aint going nowhere

[@SofaSpy]

@@retroguy1976 moniyhan train hall is mainly for Amtrak. And they did not renovate penn station, they just renovated a passage corridor on the LIRR side. They need to tear it down so a proper train station can be built, just like the iconic old Penn station. Have you seen the NJ transit side of Penn station or the other parts of the LIRR station? Or the comical connection of the station to the 1,2,3 and A,C,E trains. It's a joke! Especially compared to what it was before the old Penn station was demolished. ALSO THIS IS NOT THE ORIGINAL MSG, THERE HAVE BEEN 3-4 OTHER MSG AT DIFFERENT LOCATION THROUGH OUT HISTORY. The old Penn station was 10x better than Grand Central, especially since it carries waaaaay more passenger traffic

[@knowyourbassplayer]

Proletariat seats are uncomfortable, no leg room, too cramped....

[@tart8228]

went to my first game this year and was underwhelmed:( that being said kinda went in some weird entrance and was in the nosebleeds but idk

[@Matthew6248]

If the Penn Station expansion calls for MSG gettong knocked down, MSG5 gets built but not before Knicks and Rangers have to play in a temporary home (Barclays likely but not a good fit for hockey)

[@richardwallerstein539]

Better fit 5 miles west at the Prudential Center where the Devils play.

[@retroguy1976]

we learned that with the islanders thats why they went back to long island lol

[@user73958]

There are pilings that hold up MSG that are in the way of renovating Penn Station to its full potential I think I read. They do want MSG out of there eventually.

[@LaurenLover81]

Commercial real estate as we speak is at a huge financial loss right now. Properties valued at $100 million plus are only selling for tens of millions. With that said, now’s the time for Vornado Realty to unload the lot across from MSG and sell it to the Dolan family and MSG Entertainment for literally pennies. NYC will get its new Penn Station, and we’ll get a new MSG out of it. Worth the $8 Billion.

[@isaiah5654]

Tyrese Maxey’s second home

[@bb-gc2tx]

NYC is already failing apart this would be the final nail in this once great city. people are fleeing in droves as it is

[@hawlikd]

The seating for hockey sucks!

[@jerrodmays83]

Really? Obstructed sight lines?

[@PURAHOUSEDERESTREPO]

One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat. Move it and bring through running!!

[@lukeguastaferro7962]

It can relocate somewhere else near by maybe closer to Hudson Yards, tear this arena down and bring back a 21st century version of. World Class Train terminal that this building destroyed, the current station feels like a dungeon where passengers are literally packed likes sardines during peak times

[@albertsancho5909]

If they want to bring back the original penn station back, they should only demolished the interior of MSG leave the exterior facade for the new penn station exterior. Then replace the roof with a translucent one to draw in alot of sunlight into the train station hall. Then build the new MSG somewhere in Hudson yards or in the Bronx at the old Yankees stadium site.

[@NHLCrazy2007]

Um, no mention of the New York RANGERS? This is an arena that hosts both NBA and NHL teams. And honestly, unlike any other city in North America, large scale real estate projects (especially sports venues) are quite painfully slow in New York City. You can crawl back and forth across the country more than once faster than any progress that is made there. Look at how long it took to finally do something with the former Farley Post Office across the street just to convert its east side into Moynihan Train Hall. It took so long for both the Mets and Yankees to replace their previous ballparks, it was miracle to see the scarcely rare opportunities to actually build new venues. Took seemingly forever just to approve NYCFC's planned soccer stadium next to Citi Field. It does not matter if James Dolan dumped at least $900 million into renovating the interior of Madison Square Garden. It was done already 11 years ago. The now-demolished Palace of Auburn Hills outside of Detroit got renovations done just 3 years before the Pistons' "about face" move to Little Caesars Arena. If Dolan has nearby land and a plan to spend well over $1 billion to build a new Garden, how does he pass that up. Yes, it's an iconic arena because of its history of hosted events and memories made. But by 2028, it will be 60 years old. As much as I grew up in New York and love the Garden and you say it is a Fenway Park or Wrigley Field all you want, but this building cannot be a roadblock to revitalizing a valuable part of Midtown Manhattan. The exterior is hideous. That is clear. Only thing not upgraded by 2013. You can put lipstick on a pig for just so long. Whatever is decided on, it has to be for long term viability, not just renovate for the sake of keeping a very old facility. Until the city or state force Dolan to decide on what is next, nothing is going to get done anytime soon. AND... with the city in decay over rampant crime and corrupt politics, good luck.

[@Dotteboy816]

Nobody cares

[@markmilitant]

I get into so many arguements with New York fans about MSG like seriously I’m not trying to be a hater that stadium is disgusting 🤢 the color the old frame the streets surrounded I understand the history the Mecca so many great stars musicians athletes but like every great story it must come to an end just like the Coliseum

[@jim619]

Its an ugly arena which is holding up crucial infrastructure improvements. The train station is a disorganized mess, dark, low ceilings, confusing to navigate. Having a better functioning train station is more important preserving and old, ugly arena with wildly expensive tickets. And dont even get me started with dolan, his behavior and the tax breaks he receives.

[@markmilitant]

@@jim619 tell this to a ranger and knick fan and they go after your whole existence

[@jim619]

@@markmilitant lol they will just say my devils fandom is clouding my judgment.

[@WDI2008]

Rebuild Pennsylvania Station and restore it to its former glory!

[@fogalicious2644]

The world's most overrated arena.

[@01NATHAN10]

Commie New York City is done

[@rj.trains]

I love Madison Square Garden, but for the good of the city, the Northeast, and the whole country, MSG needs to be demolished a proper train station needs to be rebuilt on the site.

[@rentslave]

They should make a clean break,take the tax loss, and move to a stand alone building on the Jersey City Waterfront-if Cohen doesn't beat them there with the Mets.

[@petermandzych7591]

Madison Square Garden isn't going anywhere and as for the Jersey waterfront, they tried to build an arena for the Devil's in Hoboken and Hoboken said no to it.

[@greatonepro]

The city offered Dolan the chance to move across the street and take over the post office instead of making Moynihan. Dolan could've had the walls of the Post office as the exterior for a new MSG and he blew it.

[@DaGamerSquad113]

U talk about msg like the Rangers don't play there. Very poorly worded video

[@TuMalditaMadre]

They are not going to move MSG for a fourth time

[@king_has_no_clothskul8635]

GINGER YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. THERE IS NO BUILDING OR PLACE IN THE WORLD WHICH HAS TAKEN 10 BILLION DOLLARS. THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COST AT MOST 5 BIL AND THAT TOOK NEARLY 20 YEARS!!! THERE IS NO NEED TO BUILD NEW ONE FOR THE SAKE OF BUILDING ONE OR YOU DID NOT LIKE THIS AND THAT. DOES IT SERVE THE PURPOSE IS WHAT YOU NEED TO SEE. EVEN IF IT IS COMPLETELY BUILT NEW, I DO NOT THINK IT WILL TAKE MORE THAN 5 BILLION DOLLARS MAX!! CONSIDERING THAT VEGAS STADIUM TOOK 2 BIL DOLLARS AND LA CLIPPERS IS TAKING MAX 2 BILLION DOLLARS. THOUGH REAL ESTATE IS PRICEY SAY 10000 SQ FT*25000 SQUARE METERS IS HOW MUCH?= THE REAL ESTATE VALUE IS CHUMP CHANGE: AT 250 MILLION DOLLARS AND I HAVE BEEN VERY GENEROUS. THE AREA IS NOT 25000 SQUARE METERS. MAX I THINK IT IS 30000 SQUARE METERS AKA 3 ACRES! SO FOR 300 MILLION YOU SHOULD GET THE LAND OR LAND HAS ALREADY BEEN OBTAINED LONG TIME AGO. THE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION AND LABOR COST ARE MORE OR LESS SAME IN USA. ADD 30% MORE. SO THIS SHOULD BE A 4 BILLION DOLLAR DEAL IF BUILT FROM SCRATCH WITHIN NEXT 2 YEARS. BUT IS THERE A NEED? I DO NOT THINK SO. THAT TILTING TOWER PROBLEM IS NOT SOLVED AND IT IS STRANDED, SIMILAR TO ONE IN SFO WHERE THEY ARE AT LEAST DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. NOT MANY SPORTS FAN LEFT AND WOULD THEY WANT TO PAY IS THE QUESTION. NEW YORK HAS GIVE OR TAKE 10 MILLION POPULATION AND ONE IN 10 PAY IS MERE ONE MILLION PEOPLE. THEY HAVE TO DISH OUT 5000 FOR 5 BILLION PROJECT OVER 25 YEARS PERIOD. BUT MONEY GOES TO OTHER SPORTS AS WELL: NHL,NASCAR, MLB,NFL,NBA AND LOCAL OTHER SPORTS INCLUDING SOCCER. SO THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH MONEY TO GO AROUND. BUT BUILDING THINGS IS NOTHING NEW.for NYK but is there a need for the SAKE OF IT?