What is the King James Version?

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What's wrong with the King James Version? Anything? Why don't we all use it? The KJV is the best known and arguably most elegant, aesthetically pleasing, and significant piece of English literature ever. But there are problems with it for anyone wanting to know what the biblical authors actually said. Some of the problems are today rather amusing, many are serious, and all are worth knowing about.
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[@enoynaert]

I had my first contact with an evangelical Christian was in the early 1970s. I was naive. I was trying to find a "Phillips Translation" of the Bible, and I could not find one in local book stores. The evangelical I was talking to said that all Christians should use the King James Version. I thought they were joking. So I joked back "Well, it was the version carried by twelve apostles." She said "I didn't know that!" I kind of regret that I told her that I was joking.

[@mattr.1887]

😂😂

[@keithwilson448]

The more i watch Bart, the more I love him. Thank you sir, for all your work, and for so generously sharing it. You are an inspiration. Thanks to Megan and everyone else involved in these productions too.

[@dozilla77]

Same. He's got the perfect soft spoken voice that fits very well. Megan's accent is the cherry on top as yank lol

[@richardsorel4647]

Bart's great at taking something of such profound importance, and make it not only easy to understand, but enjoyable while doing so.

[@judyhickman5831]

These two are individually and combined so delightful. I love their intelligence and educational discipline.

[@AlanCanon2222]

As an escaped Christian (Church of Christ) there's something wonderfully comforting about Prof. Ehrman's style of elocution. His voice sounds very much like the more gentle of the fundamentalist preachers I grew up listening to. Having the New Testament deconstructed by someone with that sort of speaking voice is just the best thing.

[@alexanderweddle3948]

Ex-CofC here. I like his style, too.

[@J_Z913]

Same here regarding the church of Christ. I've noticed Bart's style is bit like that of one of my old preachers. I like Dale Martin as well. He came out of the CofC tradition too.

[@AlanCanon2222]

@@J_Z913 I'll take that as a "strong recommend" on Dale Martin, thank you for the reference.

[@MrTrickatreat]

The biggest thing is that I don't feel like he's trying to sell me something. I love that he's not overly charismatic. He's just saying what he's seen and either concluded or has reasonable theories about and I can take it or leave it.

[@Chad-xs2de]

Congratulations on your escape!

[@timothynelissen948]

Part of the charm of this series is watching Bart and Megan just enjoy catching up in the beginning and getting to know each other better.

[@GlorifiedTruth]

It almost got a tear from me when, at the very end, Megan said, "I'll be listening, even though I won't be participating." Dumb, I know, but it just seemed so sad.

[@Wretched2JZ]

@@GlorifiedTruthyou seem emotionally attached to these folks. Can be dangerous.

[@GlorifiedTruth]

@@Wretched2JZ No argument here. Hey, JZ is my name in real life (initials, i.e.).

[@Wretched2JZ]

@@GlorifiedTruth haha that’s cool!

[@jeffcarlson3269]

well each to their own I guess I am more of a brass tacks kind of guy... just get down to the points.. cut the unnecessary banter... make your point and be done with it... most of the time thru these videos I put the speed on 2X the fastest it will go.. in order to help push them along... these people act like I have all day to ingest their stuff? ..I tried listening to this junk.. but honestly ..I feel I was led into it under false pretenses.. it is titled "WHY IS THE KING JAMES VERSION"... well what about it?.. c'mon already!!..

[@idreamofgenie2599]

I decided to read the King James Version all the way through several years ago, and I was surprised to discover weird expressions in the Old Testament like "him that pisseth against a wall"! It took me a while to figure out that basically meant a small boy. I don't recall *ever* hearing that phrase in any Bible readings in church! :D

[@ctriamimgons]

20:45 ringstraked (adjective): marked with circular stripes habergeon (noun): a medieval jacket of mail shorter than a hauberk hauberk (noun): a tunic of chain mail worn as defensive armor from the 12th to the 14th century ligure (noun): a traditional precious stone that is probably just jacinth jancinth (noun): a gem more nearly orange in color than hyacinth hyacinth (noun): a precious stone of the ancients sometimes held to be sapphire

[@MarcusStenberg]

Megan: "So Bart, since we last spoke you have been working on suggestions for some new Pokémon to spawn in 2023, would you care to share some of those names you've come up with?" Bart: 21:10

[@AurorXZ]

Haha!

[@DarthGylcolious]

You absolutely slayed me -- I have been belly laughing for the last 5 minutes. Thank you, totally genius.

[@MarcusStenberg]

@@DarthGylcolious Thanks for letting me know. :) His delivery is so great.

[@JoseChung21]

Fantastic job Megan - can Bart get a new microphone at some point? He sounds like he’s in a tunnel. You guys are doing great work thanks!

[@davidlee8464]

My favorite KJV-related quote was a pastor who said (with a straight face), “If the King James Bible was good enough for St. Paul it’s good enough for me.” Whaaa…?

[@stevearmstrong6758]

Living in the Bible Belt, I have seen bumper stickers: "If it ain't King James, it ain't the Bible"

[@mojoman2001]

Gimme that old time religion: Good enough for Grandma, then it's good enough for me. (Not really. It's a classic song lyric.)

[@spencerjones274]

Absolutely loving this podcast series! I wonder if a quick roundup of the facts/points stated could be added at the end of each discussion? Or maybe even a bonus episode briefly going over the points made in each episode? I get that it's not all that simple though! Thanks for the work you're doing ❤️

[@Greglouis1961]

Have you tried taking notes as you watch it?

[@davidgagnon7806]

If you grow up with The KJV, the language seems natural to you and when you come to read Shakespeare in school, you have a leg up on everyone else.

[@jamesbinns8528]

So true! My KJV Bible had many words accompanied by vowel markings for pronunciation purposes! Hallelujah!

[@ReeveBehrens-ej2un]

Facts

[@brucecook502]

All of the churches I ever attended all the way up until I'd be converted in 2017, we're all independent fundamentalist Baptist that were strictly King James av1611 only. They were so serious about it that I remember one evangelist used to sing a song that made fun of other denominations and other translations of the Bible. In fact, the boys home I was at had a man that lived on our property that took a whole slew of other non kjv 1611 translations and blew them away with his 30-06 rifle after a sermon was preached one afternoon where the preacher claimed that the other versions were inspired by the devil and should be burned, so this guy took his rifle and shot these Bibles with us boys that lived in that boys home watching him. That is how nutterbutter these people were that brought me up.

[@zapkvr]

Boys home? Jeepers

[@brucecook502]

@@zapkvr yeah it was a very physically abusive boys home, which got raided and shut down in 2006 for child abuse and you can even find police press conferences here on KZbin talking about it. Just look up "buddy Maynard Heritage boys Academy". You'll find quite a few videos of people covering that abusive Boys Home in Panama City Florida. I was a member of that boys home from early 1998 until the fall of 2000. I was the one and only boy who successfully ran away from that place.

[@stephenarmiger8343]

Knowing nothing of this, I purchased a 1611 Edition of the King James Version. It was unexpected to see the introductory material! Because of this I can appreciate it’s literary value. Thank you Bart and Megan!

[@jdewit8148]

"Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

[@chriswimer6296]

This was an outstanding discussion of the KJB! I’m sure Bart has a series or extended lecture on this that I’m gonna have to find! A question for Bart or anyone familiar with Bible translations: what would be the best translation to study the original texts? Also, has Bart ever considered doing an annotated bible? And if so, what version would he choose? I’m sure there’s a better way to get my questions to Bart, and I’ll look it up, but I just thought I’d put it in the comments while I’m here 🤷🏻‍♂️😅 Thanks!

[@davidkeller6156]

At his blog site he recommends the Harper Collins Study Bible

[@brokinsage7138]

You made the volume on your mics more even- thank you!

[@Bobson_Dugnutt_Esq]

I want to thank you both for all you do. the expertise that you two bring to tell the human story of the Bible is truly eye opening.

[@coreyham3753]

Bart must have something like a photographic memory to be able to recite dates and information as easily as he does. Very impressive.

[@sassylittleprophet]

Interestingly enough, in my fundamentalist circles at least (IFB/Independent Fundamental Baptist), I was taught all about the Wycliffe and Tyndale Bibles (and the Bishops Bible, and the Geneva Bible, and others which names I can't remember off the top of my head). It wasn't that we thought that the KJV was the first English translation of the Bible, we were taught that it was the "finished" translation. In other words, the KJ is where the translation was supposed to end: God's Word (the KJV) was perfect, and the translation was done with. It was God's Word in the English language, it would stand for all time. Any future translation to "improve" or "update" the Bible was viewed as prideful, "worldly" scholars thinking they knew better than God Himself. There are verses used to back this up, warnings in the text itself about adding to or taking away from God's Word, which is seen as "leaning on your own understanding" or making God a liar. In fundamentalist circles, or the one(s) I was raised in at any rate, one of the most blasphemous things a person can do is translate the Bible. A slightly lesser but still somewhat blasphemous act is reading a version other than the KJV, because it's seen as watering down the gospel, or only seeking what your itching ears and deceitful heart want you to hear and follow. The devil is using what you want to hear as a means to lead you astray, it's a "false version" of the Bible. So much of fundamentalists' faith rests on the belief that the KJV is the inerrant, infallible, inspired Word of God...because if it's not, then the doctrines of the virgin birth, Jesus' godhood and sinless-ness, the Trinity, Christ's resurrection, the Creation of the world, Noah's Flood, Heaven and Hell, the Rapture, the Second Coming, like a LOT of things are called into question and there's no certainty anymore. If you don't have "thus saith the LORD," then all you have is what people say. And people are sinners, they fail, they suck, they let you down -- we need something solid, a firm foundation: the Word of a God Who never lies, is perfect, knows everything, never makes mistakes. For fundamentalists, if they can't trust the KJ, everything falls apart. Like LITERALLY everything. Edit: In case it needs to be said, I am no longer a fundamentalist (hell, I'm not even a Christian anymore at this point). I left this comment to explain some things about fundamentalism, particularly of the IFB flavor.

[@philleprechaun6240]

And I'd guess that ironically the version of the KJV they used was actually the 1769 Oxford revision rather than the original 1611 KJV. At least that's been my experience with the vast majority of KJV onlyists I've had dealings with.

[@sassylittleprophet]

@@philleprechaun6240 oh that's interesting! I actually don't know/was never taught anything about that

[@richardvass1462]

@@philleprechaun6240 Precisely why we are opposed to new counterfeit versions. Scholars leave us with no real bible that we can read and base our faith on for salvation. One will become hopeless and lost in thier sin.

[@tobyc8668]

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15) The entire Universe is built on the transcendental constants e, π. many of the fundamental laws of physics and other sciences rely over and over again on these two mathematical constants. These two numbers are encoded through the ancient art of Gematria which were introduced from approx 5th to 8th century BC, by which the letters of ancient alphabets had assigned a numerical value, and so every letter, word or phrase written in Hebrew or in Greek, the languages used to write, respectively, the Old and the New Testament, have a numerical value associated to them. Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin.(Daniel 5:25). Meaning numbered, numbered, weighed, divided. π is encoded in Genesis 1:1, the first verse of the Bible/Torah and of the Old Testament written in Hebrew. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Genesis 1:1) בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃ (Genesis 1:1) From the Hebrew alphanumeric code introduced around the 8th century BCE, And formula (NUMLETT*PROLETT/NUMWORD*PROWORD) = (28 * 2.3887 x 10^27) / (7 * 3.0415 x 10^17) = 3.1415...X10^17. it matches the actual value of π until the 3.1415. π is the number of the circle, of completion, of what is closed and self-contained; as such, it's a good mathematical reference to the concept of a God Creator of all things, and of a Creation that includes everything that was created by God; (John 1:3 Isaiah 40:22) This was encoded in the bible with a level of precision that was 2000 years ahead of Chinese mathematician Zu Chongzhi who got π close to about seven digits around the 5th century AD, surpassing his compatriot who got it close to three digits earlier in the 2nd century AD. e is encoded in John 1:1, the first verse of the gospel (John) of the New Testament written in Greek. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(John 1:1) ἐν ἀρχηι ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (John 1:1) From the Greek alphanumeric code introduced around the 5th century BCE, And formula (NUMLETT*PROLETT/NUMWORD*PROWORD) = (52 * 8.4362 x 10^75)/ (17 * 9.4930 x 10^35) = 2.7183...X10^40. it matches the actual value of e until the 2.7183. e is the number of the relationship between the big and the small, of the bridge between the infinitesimal and the infinite; what number could be better associated with the Son, the One who was Sent by the Father, the One who is the only bridge for mankind to the infinite God who created the universe. (John 14:6) The Son who is the living word of God which was made flesh (John 1:14) Whose title is the Word of God (Revelation 19:13) The Euler's number was encoded some 1500 years before the human kind first discovered its existence and importance in 1683 by Jacob Bernoulli. The fine structure constant (α) value can be also derived from the above two key verses by combining the verse gematria values of Genesis 1:1 with John 1:1 and calculating it's base value. The fine structure constant (α) value is considered the greatest mysteries of physics. Without it, it would be impossible to form even simple structures like atoms, molecules, planets, or stars. Verse gematria = Sum of all letter values. (Genesis 1:1 = 2701 & John 1:1 = 3627) you would get the fine structure constant (α) derived as 27013627^2 =0.00729736..e17. Given that the current α approx value recommended is currently 0.00729735. In fact, it was only in 1916 that this magic number was first introduced by Arnold Sommerfeld. Furthermore, there is a pattern in the verse Gematria of Genesis 1:1 to John 1:1 = 2701-3627 = |27|01-36|27|; There are exactly a total of 27 books in the New Testaments which reveal the Messiah/Word of God (Jesus Christ the Son). John 1:14 states that Jesus Christ is the Word of God which was made flesh and the only begotten of the father. Whose title is the Word of God (Revelation 19:13) Revelation 22:13 states that Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending. Revelation 13:18 states that the number of the antichrist who will deceive the world in the end days is 666. And, the sum of integers from the beginning of 1 to 36 is exactly 666. Hence, (27) (01-36) (27) = (Jesus-the Alpha) -> (From the beginning to the end of the anti-christ 666) -> (Jesus-the Omega). In addition, The Golden Ratio Phi (φ) is encoded in Hebrew 8:5 when God spoke to Moses and reveal to him the pattern in which all things to be made in accordance to. Hebrew 8:5 states: "Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount." οἵτινες ὑποδείγματι καὶ σκιᾷ λατρεύουσιν τῶν ἐπουρανίων, καθὼς κεχρημάτισται μωϊσῆς μέλλων ἐπιτελεῖν τὴν σκηνήν, ὅρα γάρ, φησίν, ποιήσεις πάντα κατὰ τὸν τύπον τὸν δειχθέντα σοι ἐν τῶ ὄρει· (Hebrew 8:5) From the Greek alphanumeric code introduced around the 5th century BCE, And the same formula (NUMLETT*PROLETT/NUMWORD*PROWORD) = (156 * 2.2252 x 10^235)/ (28 * 7.6621 x 10^74) = 1.6180...X10^161. it matches the actual value of φ until the 1.6180. The golden ratio (φ) is a pattern which is sometimes called the "divine proportion," because of its frequency in the natural world. For centuries, the golden ratio has fascinated all kinds of people, not just mathematicians. Physicists and biologists have studied it, architects and artists have used it, and worshippers have described it as a divine design. And through the centuries, the golden ratio has continued to amaze its diverse fans, frequently cropping up at unexpected places. Now, let's go to the simple common sense example: the smallest protein we know has 25 amino acids. The smaller and more simple proteins used as building blocks for the cell life and necessary to build DNA, from 50 to 100 amino acids as a minimum, and even thousands of amino acids in many cases. But let's consider a simple typical protein with some 50 amino acids. To think that this molecule could be the product of chance, of a coincidence, requires to accept that the 50 amino acids have been combined, in the right way and in the right order, by chance, by accident, by coincidence. At first glance it doesn't look impossible if we have millions of years to test combinations, right? This is the problem with big numbers, they easily dazzle those who think they have a common sense they lack. The probability of this event, if you computes it (And if you were to do a quick consultation to some biochemist to know the factors he'll have to take in account), even if all the atoms of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen and others necessary available in the universe were only used to build amino acids, and even if all these amino acids in the universe would only be trying once and again a possible configuration of 50 steps, without repeating those who had been already checked, from the moment the universe started existing until today, and at a rhythm of one trial for every second for every 50 amino acids, even so, the chance that by coincidence that protein would be formed in the universe after 15 billion years of trial would be less than one in billions. And if we consider a more realistic case, a protein with some 100 amino acids, then the corresponding probability would require universes of universes, and ages of the universe of ages of the universe, purely devoted to try every possible combination, without repeating those already tested, to have less than one chance in a trillion to make this happen for this small molecule. Origin: Probability of a Single Protein Forming by Chance kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWLCfHiMlqisl6M let us then consider this perspective. There are 90,000 possible 5 digit numbers from 1.0000 to 9.9999 that could have occurred from a given equation. The chance that the digit sequence 3.1415 occurs by coincidence is therefore 1/90,000 in Genesis 1:1. The chance that Euler’s number (e) is calculated from the Gospel of John 1:1 by the same equation to 5 correct digits, is also 1/90,000.The probability that both occur by random chance in these textually related verses is thus 1/90,000 x 1/90,000 = 1/ 8,100,000,000. If we add in the probability that the golden ratio could have been calculated up to 5 correct digits in the textually related Hebrew 8:5 with the same equation, you would get the probability increase to more than 1 in 7 trillion chance that this is just a coincidence. Furthermore, we have not even include the probability of the fine structure constant α being derived from combining the verse gematria from the forementioned Genesis 1:1 & John 1:1. And, that both key verses gematria pattern confirms the AC number in the book of revelation. And, the exact number of new testament books which give us Jesus Christ the Son, the living word of God which was made flesh (The only bridge for our salvation).

[@ANCIENTWARRI0R]

Thanks for this detailed explanation. Ive never used the KJV and never understood why people stuck with it but this make sense in a way.

[@truthwithin1565]

I don't think it was a mistake in the KJV earliest version when it translated the isaiah 7:14 about a young lady giving birth to a son. (Hineh ha-almah harah ve-yoledet ben ve-karat shemo Im-anu-el) First of all, it doesn’t say “a young woman” (almah); it says ha-almah (the young woman-in other words, a specific young woman Isaiah is indicating). Second, it doesn’t say “will conceive,” it says “has conceived.” Third, it says, “she will call him Im-anu-el”

[@sofiatgarcia3970]

I was raised with the KJV as an evangelical Christian. Though I'm no longer a Christian I still prefer the KJV for the beauty of the wording. However, if I want to better understand a passage I tend to check out other versions for comparison.

[@fretnesbutke3233]

As I've heard it said,if the King James Bible was good enough for the apostle Paul, it's good enough for me! A more depressing matter arises from the Pentacostals who insist on handling rattlesnakes and drinking cyanide, occasionally resulting in amputation,necrosis or death,still fail to realize that after circa 4 centuries of scholarship since the translation of the King James version.we're reasonably certain that the verse that their motivation derives from was tacked onto the later copy they used.

[@corriepitt7630]

Thank you, Dr. Ehrman for providing such rich content in easily digestible portions. You are a truly gifted teacher. You are my Saturday morning listening every week.

[@thelostone6981]

Being raised in Mormonism and “educated” by SDA schools for many years, I am more familiar with the KJV. Even though I’m an atheist now, I still admire the ability and willingness to translate the Bible into English. I think it helped gain a love for Shakespeare and older English linguistics.

[@russellmiles2861]

Interesting I could barely understand it: fortunately we had the RSV

[@KaiHenningsen]

In terms of importance, in Germany, there's Luther's translation. He had, in fact, a huge influence on the development of standard German, which didn't exist before his translation. It is, of course, pretty much independent of the KJV, though he consulted Erasmus' second edition (and became rather upset Erasmus tried to distance himself from his church troubles). Also, there were even more German translations before Luther than for English, starting in the 14th century. Of course, Luther was a rampant anti-Semite, and a number of his utterings on the subject would fit right in five centuries later. I believe Luther is also who came up with _"sola scriptura"._

[@boblackey1]

Yes the SDA church is a big promoter of the KJV. I became puzzled by the 1844/IJ doctrine. SDA is the only church that has developed this doctrine and it's endorsed by EGW whom SDA's hold as a prophet. SDA claim to be Bible only yet at the same time, EGW's books are also inspired just as Scripture. That is puzzling too. It seems it has been so many years now since 1844 AD and Jesus still hasn't returned to earth at the close of the IJ, it seems as we close in on 100 years, the 1844/IJ doctrine will eventually collapse and seen as somehow not correct!! But almost 170 years later it's still a cardinal teaching.

[@russellmiles2861]

@@KaiHenningsen yes Wenceslaus IV tried to publish a German Bible to strengthen his hold on power. But it was never completed

[@fly_8659]

Ouch!!! Double whammy! Mormon and SDA, what a combination.

[@jawdroppingbeautybyjulie61]

As an Evangelical, I want a translation that sticks as closely to the earliest manuscripts as possible. Since the original manuscripts are not available, then it is important to continue to re-examine the texts each time an even earlier manuscript is discovered. At this point in time there are better translations than the KJV.

[@Greglouis1961]

HAIL . SATAN.

[@jeffharper9703]

​@@Greglouis1961Why do you write this?

[@davideldred.campingwilder6481]

With reference to Bart's Soapbox and 'thoughts' Oscar Wilde said. 'Most people are other people. Their thoughts are other people's opinions, their lives a minicry, their passions a quotation.

[@stevearmstrong6758]

Another good podcast - Bart's explanation of the problems with the KJ version of Isaiah 7:14 (and the entire story being told in that passage) was brief but to the point.

[@AurorXZ]

Agreed. One thing good to add is an explanation for the tense shift (from the traditional "shall" to "is"/"has"), however. This wasn't simply translators being flippant for theology-in Classical Hebrew, there are only two tenses (perfect and imperfect, or completed and uncompleted). Critically, Hebrew prophecy is written in perfect/completed tense, as if the action has already happened. While the consensus appears to be that the woman is _currently_ with child, a lot of ink has been dedicated to whether she already IS with child, or if she WILL be with child soon. Amusingly, the latter understanding would allow for a virginal reading: if she somehow is a virgin (which _almah_ sometimes implies), she won't be by the time she conceives!

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

I grew up Anglican, first with KJV and then with other translations. The biggest problem I find is that people think they know what it means when in fact they misunderstand words and whole phrases that have changed their meaning.

[@richardvass1462]

Maybe they're too lazy to learn?

[@davidsinclair7439]

@@richardvass1462 No. They don't know they need to learn anything new - because the language still makes sense to modern readers, despite the meaning having changed. I

[@richardvass1462]

@@davidsinclair7439 I bought an old dictionary so I can look up words in the King James but yeah I know I seen Gail ripplinger's video the Bible's built-in dictionary

[@ChiliMcFly1]

I have been reading and listening to Dr. Michael Heisner and became to appreciate the ESV. It has become my go to Bible for reading and studying. I also own the NRSV which appears to be the progression of the Catholicism in the Christian faith. I like to compare the ESV with the NRSV. You should note that the Laws of Nature are also the Laws of God.

[@leonardbartholomew5021]

Yes, for me, Bart's explanations have been the captivation of this series but Megan's observation from 53:11to 53:20 transends everthing I have heard so far.

[@Hamann9631]

When Bart mentioned words with different meanings now, I thought of "replenish". In 1611 it meant to fill. There was no connotation of the thing being previously filled. The "re" in "replenish" doesn't mean again. It is like the "re" in "replete" doesn't mean again.

[@chadgarber]

Great stuff. Bart, what translation do you think is the most accurate (and that is readable)?

[@veggiehamb8666]

He often recommends the NRSV. He’s talked a lot about being “in the room where it happened” and his mentor’s role. He has also recommended the Harper Collins study Bible, which you can find used pretty cheap. He has blog posts about the subject and 100% of the money to subscribe goes to charity if you want more info.

[@chadgarber]

@@veggiehamb8666 Thanks! Already subscribed!

[@Chad-xs2de]

@@veggiehamb8666 Which has been updated (NRSVUE)

[@jeffmacdonald9863]

@@Chad-xs2de I've got an old RSV. I'm amused by there being an Updated Edition of the New version of the Revision of the Standard Version. Maybe that wasn't a great naming convention to work with.

[@jamesbinns8528]

@@jeffmacdonald9863 Good point. My wife was an English major who is overly literal and has word crochets! She will love your comment!

[@blogbalkanstories4805]

Thanks so much for this episode. To us people from outside the English speaking world the reverence for the King James Bible really is somewhat puzzling. By comparison, the historically immensely important Luther translations of the Bible are considered significant for several reasons in its own right in German speaking countries, but has nowhere near the relevance today the King James Bible has for Britain or the US. Incidentally, Luther's translation was also formative for modern German, and created many phrases, some of them the same as created by the KJB in English. ("Salt of the Earth", "Brother's Keepers") This episode has helped me understand a bit more about the KJB's impact.

[@scienceexplains302]

In the companion episode to this one, the translator points out that KJV gives the false impression that the Christian biblical characters were speaking eloquently and serenely, but the Greek is often very coarse (Mark?)

[@HkFinn83]

@@scienceexplains302maybe to a modern reader, but at the time the KJV was written in ‘Ploughboys English’. It was very accessible. Now it sounds like Shakespeare because it’s a muscular version of early modern English.

[@scienceexplains302]

@@HkFinn83 Not according to scholars, afaik. “The KJV’s Language Was Outdated the Day it was Published” on Dan McClellan channel. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqXSkHt4m7OYbassi=G9CsDn5dKqjWS8HY But you have a point that what sounds serene to me wouldn’t necessarily have sounded serene in -1621- 1611.

[@HkFinn83]

@@scienceexplains302 the thee/thou and singular/plurals were not in common usage anymore, but easily understood. Also this isn’t a stylistic choice, it is to accurately represent the originals. Also the entire idea of a vulgar bible is for the ploughboy. This IS scholarly consensus. They’re pointing out archaisms in grammar words, not a high falutin inscrutable literary affectation

[@scienceexplains302]

@@HkFinn83 Not snobbish , just outdated. Tyndale wrote in “everyday” English for his time, which was about 86 years before the KJV. It is primarily Tyndale’s words that populate the KJV.

[@phinehasochayi3900]

Thank you, Prof Ehrman, for the beautiful work you do.

[@rochelebierhalspereira7106]

Being indoctrinated by Irish missionaries in Brazil when I wanted to learn English (became a teacher) they told me the KJV was the best version. My first thought when I looked into it was "oh they must like because people depend on them to understand it, they want to be relevant as missionaries". My mom is also an ex christian and she was always extremely bothered by the fact that they kept explaining that in our Portuguese version (João Ferreira de Almeida's Revista and corrigida) that we were told to use exclusively, sometimes what the text says is not what it means "according to the original", so they'd talk about Greek and Hebrew and basically said the passages meant whatever they wanted it to means because they had access to the "original" language. In my learning process of th English language I actually favoured contemporary texts and media, so I didn't actually looked into the KJV and bible versions. What I found out eventually just helped in my way right out of the church and belief in general😅.

[@nasonguy]

Here is your weekly reminder to read "The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling" by Ted Chiang. Very relevant to the nature of turth, translation, subtle meaning, bias, etc. I recommend "Omphalos" by Ted Chiang as well. Also very relevant to the small mention of the Bible disagreeing with archaeology.

[@tommac5411]

Bart needs a better microphone and sound setup. Sounds muffled

[@Purwapada]

the soapbox section really touched my heart. Great message that so many need to hear

[@jamesbinns8528]

Well, having an open mind and studying history, learning how the Bible came to be , and learning about science and other religions and cultures, is what led me down the path to apostasy. Ignorance and blind faith is what leads to "salvation.!"

[@Chandransingham]

Thought provoking as usual. One point missed here is that the (Classical German) Historical Critical Method is already used by dedicated scholars. For a good example see Prof John J Collins et al's important recent publication: The Jerome Biblical Commentary for the Twenty-First Century (t&tclark 2022). It has a Foreword by Pope Francis.

[@KaiHenningsen]

There's a recent PhD (who made YT videos about his work) who researched the psychology of losing and gaining faith. One result I remember is that the largest predictor of losing faith he found was a desire for honesty and truth, which they originally got taught in their church, but which then led them away from their faith. This is probably related to the claim that reading the bible makes you an atheist.

[@FlashGeiger]

Useful Charts

[@russellmiles2861]

I contend that is a false dichotomy: believe not believe. Whereas the majority of folk are "indifferent". They may or may not attend church, practice or sometimes observe faith. But this makes very little difference to how folk live thrive and survive. There are significant research that shows little difference in behaviour based on a faith or none a person identifies with. So I contend that it is too complex a question to define if someone has or has not faith. Remember if we ask men and women if they have had sex the answers we get are - well, they don't add up. And faith is a tad more abstract an idea to measure

[@StephenCowley001]

I note that the "claim", "result" and "significant research" waved at here are not cited in a form that anyone else can independently check or verify. Francis Bacon said that a little philosophy takes you away from religion, but a great deal returns you to it. Perhaps the study is verifying the first part of this old saw.

[@KaiHenningsen]

@@russellmiles2861 I think you missed the point; this was specifically about people who switched, not about those who don't care enough to switch. Why do people switch in either direction? Those are usually a minority, most people don't switch.

[@russellmiles2861]

@@KaiHenningsen oh I often miss the point ... I still don't believe this assertion could be measured...it sounds like opinion trying to sound more important

[@Templetonq]

I once heard a prosperity gospel preacher quote that, in the parable of the widow's mite, she "gave out of her want", then he declared, "She wanted something".

[@johnemanuele8695]

How refreshing. Mr. Ehrman is a happy joyful individual who is intelligent, articulate and well versed in the scriptures. He shares his years of research with others. Thank you for enlightening those of us who struggle to understand biblical origins, the writers, exegesis vs eisegesis..tales vs facts...fiction vs science. All religions are powerful influences on the masses. It's a good thing to protect oneself from religions goal to control.

[@stephenarmiger8343]

If I understood Bart correctly, he is saying something consoling. A young woman is with child, pregnant. She doesn’t have to worry about the future of her child. The world will be a safer place by the time that the child grows up. Cool! How many couples today are not having children because of their fear of the future. A common fear. In the age of birth control, couples can make such decisions.

[@Seccheus]

The KJV is not the best translation...

[@arthurmartinson4370]

A Baptist co-worker set me straight when she could not get me to convert. "Don't you understand that the KJV is a miracle! God gave King James of Israel a Bible in English before the language existed so it would be found by the Puritan settlers!" History and geography must not have been her strong points.

[@juicedgoose]

Wow. Are you certain she wasn't joking?

[@arthurmartinson4370]

@@juicedgoose She was a Texas Southern Baptist who did not like Catholics. She was not joking.

[@jimbo2227]

Grew up independent Baptist, always liked the language of the KJV never could get used to other translations.

[@songsmithy07]

I very much enjoyed this episode, and I look forward to your next program on the NRSVUE.

[@raydavison4288]

I have always wondered why Daniel wasn't chucked into the "fiery furnace" along with Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego. 🤔

[@deadboyzX8]

i have consumed so much of your content. its been hard to watch but i need this information so badly. thank you so much

[@mburland]

I'm surprised no mention was made of that the fact that it is the King James Version and not the King James Translation.

[@420JRMan]

If you forget the lesson, you will be condemned to relive the experience.

[@kylelloyd4437]

I've learned so much from these programs. The people I work with are biblical literalists and they clearly don't understand how the Bible even became the Bible. Scholarships show that these clearly are not the word of God and they were authored written by people claiming to be inspired by God. And it all comes down to faith. So basically these people choose to believe in a book that has known errors in it. I get that some people wanna use it too have community and raise their families by it. But is the sacrifice of lying to yourself worth it?

[@charlespatin5496]

I certainly enjoyed this presentation, although I knew some of the problems with the KJV. I had understood that part of the problem was that King James himself inserted his own ideas during the formation of the texts to favor his own beliefs. Beyond that, I really enjoyed the "Soapbox" this week.

[@davidchupp4460]

Try again kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZrPiYZmaKtqoKM

[@foxyshabazz]

I am not even a Christian, and I love the KJV. Whenever Dr. Bart says 'they don't know what they're doing' something inside me always screams 'no you idiot, it's "They know not what they do!"' :)

[@mariemeyer]

What editions do you encourage your students to use for cor coursework?

[@matthewlawrenson2734]

When I hear genuinely intelligent people who are still 'faith based' ..always amazed. I guess its cultural or family based but genuinely unfathomable. Like a snail trying to explain why it's temperament prefers the shade. The water nearly always takes on the colour of the cup....but here they are rational! .Thank goodness for the intelligent discourse though. Thank you both for your genuinely enlightening work.

[@richardvass1462]

There work leaves people with no hope in the savior and his perfect word. That's why things are getting worse all the time.

[@kwamesolo3315]

@Richard Vass Truth is the only thing that will set your mind and soul completely free (even in hardship). God is real, but Christianity as a religion is false.

[@wickedcabinboy]

Which version of the bible does Dr Ehrman use in teaching his classes?

[@Sp4mMe]

It'd be interesting to see the attitudes to Bible versions across different languages, and if it's similar everywhere or not. Given that Christendom is so global and has this "definite" attitude towards the truth, yet for obvious reasons everyone uses their own versions of the Bible and in each language Christians need to figure out how to deal with their own translations, of which there inevitably will be loads ...

[@macroman52]

If you have ever heard a Sovereign Citizen or a Moorish American give their interpretation of the constitution or their interpretation of an expired 19th Century treaty between the US and Morocco to mean they don't have to have a driver's licence or pay taxes, and that no US law applys to them, you can perhaps understand why the Church heirachy in the 1400s didn't want people interpreting the bible for themslves.

[@johnlavers3970]

i had a tindal bible many years ago. it was very poetic and simpler language than the king james. and i'm not a christian, but i read a lot as a young person.

[@trilithon108]

I like these two and saw her interviewing Bart and I'm in.

[@erichstocker8358]

Two funny facts from my point of view. I was talking with one of those strange right-wing evangelical christians and he told me "if King James English was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for me" So, you can see many crazy and ignorant people (explains the reasons that the church for ages was leery of people reading the bible directly) talking nonsense about KJ Bible being god's bible. When I attended a Catholic seminary our rector who also taught many classes including Greek and Hebrew also taught "biblical historiography". The English translation that he had us use was the Annotated Revised Standard version. Even though a work by protestant scholars, he said this was probably the most accurate English translation we had at the time. He didn't care for any of the typical Catholic authorized translations. Shows what good work that committee brought forth.

[@garrygiordano4059]

Especially liked how in Daniel, a birth by a young woman is used as a metaphor for the passage of time, not the prediction of a coming Messiah.

[@Mike-jl1rl]

For those interested in evolutionary phycology try looking at some of Jonathan Haidt's talks on youtube and reading his books. I love listening to Bart and Haidt and I found it so interesting Bart is looking into that subject.

[@zerowing6031]

Great recommendation! I've been reading through Haidt's stuff only recently and have been very impressed by the exploration of the 'scientific' side of psychology.

[@TheRealDyscyples]

Does he spell it phycology?

[@ppetal1]

Delighted to discover the etymology of "porridge".

[@ArrozMisto]

Would be nice to know, for study purposes, what translation Dr.Ehrman recommends.

[@pappapiccolino9572]

He always recommends the NRSV

[@AlanCanon2222]

I'd like to know that too. (Christian turned atheist here). If I was going to go buy another hard copy Bible, for me it'd be whatever the newest version of the Oxford Annotated NRSV is. The NRSV does a good job of retaining the poetry of the KJV, while correcting some of the more egregious errors of translation, and the footnotes in it are prepared by a secular editorial committee, including Jews and atheists. The annotations do a good job of contextualizing each book, in terms of probable authorship, time period, etc. I'm sure there are more technical versions that genuine scholars use, but the Oxford NRSV has a lot going for it, for the lay reader who isn't a believer, but fascinated by the text itself.

[@spykezspykez7001]

Secular study, non confessional, Harper Collins is pretty good. NRSV. And Bart’s book on New Testaments. I don’t like the way the NRSV reads though. Confessional, I use the RSV / Vulgate/Douay Rheims.

[@pappapiccolino9572]

@@spykezspykez7001 Yes, I think the downside of pursuing accuracy and fidelity to the original words is that a certain level of poetry is lost.

[@nathanaelsmith3553]

@@pappapiccolino9572 poetry schmoetry - just tell me what the words mean

[@mr.c2485]

Where exactly are these “original” manuscripts? Are they on display in a museum somewhere?

[@annestephens9631]

Thank you. Good points well made.

[@MichaelYoder1961]

I find old/middle English fascinating. They were coming into contact with things they had never seen before - especially in Africa. A unicorn may have been a Rhino and they had a word "camelopard" that was their name for a giraffe, because it looked like a mix of a camel and a leopard

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

KJV, like Shakespeare, is in early modern English, Chaucer is middle English.

[@simonfielding577]

Yes it is confusing but generally Old English c500 CE to 1100 CE;Middle English 1100~1450; Early Modern English 1450~ 1700; Late Modern English 1700~1950; Present Day English 1950 ~ Present Day

[@dynamic9016]

Very interesting topic..Learned quite alot..

[@joeg46Highlands]

A study of Reggae lyrics showed the KJB as the primary influence on the language and vocabulary, with Shakespeare coming in second.

[@les318]

Bart you could have saved us all some time if you had just said only fools and fundamentals use the KJV.

[@alexandruianosi8469]

50:01 well, you'll be surprised then to hear that there are people that try to translate specifically the KJV into those languages. For instance, in my native tongue (Romanian) we have both old translation, and new ones, some of them are quite good (not perfect, mind you, but good enough), yet some 10 years ago some people decided to translate the KJV into the Romanian language because that "is the true word of God". The thing is, they had no qualification whatsoever, and the thing they called "translation" is a horrendous mess, most of the time it doesn't even make any sense, it's just a string a words punched together. Now, you might be thinking that no one would use it? Well, people use it even in sermons, and every time they feel the need to point out that, although is very "heavy" and "hard" to understand, THOSE are the actual words of God. I wouldn't be so surprised if there are similar efforts in other languages as well.

[@annaskele628]

52:40 PAlatable should be pronounced with the accent on the first syllable.

[@ane-louisestampe7939]

Follow those, who seek the truth. And run away - as fast as you can - from those who have found it.

[@aubreysprite]

What English version of the Bible would you recommend?

[@davidkeller6156]

As an amateur astronomer I was surprised to find, some years ago, that there were a lot of people who believe in flat earth. Mostly I would encounter them in the comment sections of videos on astronomy or space exploration. At first I thought it was a joke, but soon realized that these people were serious. I large percentage are fundamentalist Christian’s who, of course, think the Bible is the inerrant word of God. I have argued in the past with many and have brought up a lot of what I knew at the time of the history of the Bible, the mistranslations, scribes adding, subtracting and making mistakes, the influence of other cultures on Jewish beliefs, etc. I discovered Professor Ehrman a few months ago and have read four of his books now, as well as a book by Paula Freidriksen I just finished. I been following Dr. Ehrman’s videos as well as those of other biblical historians. Although I’ve learned a lot from all of this, the one thing that frustrates me still is the claims of biblical inerrancy by these Christians. Now I feel a bit stupid. The one thing I never thought to point out Bart covered at the end in his soap box and it has given me the perfect answer to claims of inerrancy of the King James Bible, their Bible of choice. Thanks you for that, Dr. Ehrman.

[@craigfairweather3401]

The puritan Pilgrim fathers of the Mayflower brought over more than 20 Bibles, all either the Geneva Bible or Miles Coverdale’s Bible. Only about 2 KJV were brought over on the Mayflower, both by the so called ‘strangers’ who were not originally part of the puritan oath-bound covenanted group. The KJV was considered the mouthpiece of the oppressive Anglican hierarchy.

[@carlbrewerii1619]

Does anyone recommend anyone like Dr Ehrman, but Old Testament?

[@MarkGrago]

Why can't we paste the url code from this onto other websites for folks to review?

[@brianeibisch6025]

Old Bibles are great and new ones probably better but doesn’t Megan look ultra beautiful today!! Cheers

[@carlatteniese2]

Long-time follower of Dr. Ehrman, here. Sorry this cannot be featured on my website; I do like to share important information that can improve the state of human relations.

[@corringhamdepot4434]

The Great Bible of 1539 was the first authorised edition of the Bible in English, authorised by King Henry VIII of England. Which revised and tried to complete the missing parts of the Tyndale Bible.

[@abedonwona8576]

Wonderful exposition Professor Ehrman. My research affirms your intellectual assertions Wiclif' finished his translation in 1382. A hundred and fifty years later came Tyndale, then Coverdale (1535), Cranmer's (1539), the Genevan (1557), Rheims (1582), and finally The King James Authorized (1611). The KJV truly isn't divinely inspired as popularly preached

[@HeritageWealthPlanning]

At the 45 minute mark Bart said he’s getting into evolutionary psychology. Man, I hope he has a more discerning mind than Bret Weinstein who made a statement that Eddington proved Einstein. Ugh. Obviously Einstein has nothing to do with evolutionary psychology BUT that’s Bret’s gig and the complete ignorance of the Eddington experiment regarding General Relativity doesn’t make me think that field is made of deep thinkers

[@simonfielding577]

I'm an English teacher rather more confidently than a Christian and I always Visualized the Works of Shakespeare and the authorised version as the twin helix of the English languages DNA.....

[@JoseChung21]

Fantastic job guys thanks

[@justmagicmostly]

I'm actually like to hear an episode where Megan talks about how Syro-Palestinian history as we know it from archaeology is not what we learned from the Bible. That little comment of hers piqued my interest more than anything else.

[@zapkvr]

There's a issue of Nationl Geograpihic from 2011 celebrating the 500th anniversary of the KJV. I commend it to you. Fascinating

[@raymondsanders3584]

Definitely when these people walk around, saying that the Bible is true, that there is a God just this discussion alone proves just how fallible that thinking is if the word of God is divinely inspired, it shouldn’t be changed. It shouldn’t be altered. There shouldn’t be multiple versions you shouldn’t have to pay for it because that is the only way that you can get your hands on the “word of God “. None of this makes any sense and I don’t know why people don’t wake up and realize that it is all man-made mythology with the same bases. In fact, as the Greek gods are the Roman gods or the Viking gods or the Hindu gods or any gods. It just blows my mind.

[@JCBird-bm1mv]

Thank you very much for sharing your konwledge with us.

[@michaelpaysden4614]

I'm a little puzzled. Every "observant" Jew studies the Chumash/Pentateuch with the aid of the Targum Onkelos, which I believe was written in the first century. There are, of course, other targumim from the first two or three centuries which give a clear understanding of how the Biblical text was understood in antiquity. Yet you have made no mention of such texts. Do you believe they are for some reason unreliable?

[@karlwagner7150]

The prediction in Isa 7 was for King Ahab, not for future Messiah seekers. When the child came of age knowing right from wrong, the problem Ahab was facing would be gone, i.e., history. But if you keep reading, like through chapter 9 and 10, Isaiah takes this little prophecy and moves toward the future application of the coming Messiah. The books of prophecy, the major and minor prophets, always seem to speak of the current or local application of the prophecy mixed with a future global application. Like God is promising something for the now, but is excited and slips in words with a global eschatological promise.

[@susanstein6604]

The first phrase in Genesis 1 is In a beginning, not in the beginning.

[@sead5794]

@Bart D. Ehrman What about The Ethiopic version? It believed to be 800 older than KJV. What does that version like compared to the others and also other older manuscripts?

[@AverageJillM]

Earlier this year, I tried to read the Great Bible (it’s online), and I couldn’t, because the alphabet they used included letters that I didn’t know. The Great Bible was commissioned by King Henry VIII and I believe it was from the 1530s. That’s only about 80 years before the King James Version. Did the original King James Version also include these archaic letters and alternate spellings? If so, does that mean the KJV was revised years before the NKJV?

[@danklebesiii2257]

@bartdehrman do we know if the few manuscripts that the KJV translators used had differences in them from manuscript to manuscript?

[@suchisthismystery2814]

I was so hoping Bart was going to tell us what primary translation of the Bible he requires his students to read; clearly it is not the KJ translation. Does anyone herein know?

[@davidkeller6156]

On his blog website he states that he prefers the NRSV, and especially in the study edition, the “Harper Collins Study Bible”.

[@suchisthismystery2814]

@@davidkeller6156 Thank you David. I very much appreciate your letting me know.

[@davidkeller6156]

@@suchisthismystery2814 You’re welcome.

[@deborahbarbour2241]

I remember when the NIV came out, my KJV-ONLY Fundamentalist church put out a tract calling it "The Devil's Bible." 😮