What is the real difference between STOCK & A-KIT Suspension? - Coty Schock Explains - Gypsy Tales

After spending all of his career on stock suspension, Coty Schock has finally been able to upgrade to Enzo Racing A-Kit KYB Suspension and he explains the real difference between stock and A-Kit!
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[@afanzanoon]

When I was racing I had my suspension tuned by Pro Circuit. There was a track that had a table, maybe 3 feet high and 20 feet long. The lip of the table would get severely cupped. I could wheelie into the table with my front tire never touching the lip, and the rear shock would absorb it and keep the bike level sailing me into the flats while on the pipe. Suspension is everything.

[@Azmuddogs17]

That’s super hot

[@racerx2084]

Suspension is a key item to going to the next level. A lot of people get the exhaust, graphics n cool rims but suspension is where it’s at. It get put on hold a lot bc it’s a service n parts that you don’t really see. After I got my suspension did up by factory connection one year, I was amazed of the difference. It did what I wanted it to do. It’s something that I would do on a bike first before any type of mods now.

[@Peanutdenver]

Absolutely and it was the first thing I did when I advanced into just the local expert class. 250 and 450s have plenty of power to race at the local level. When you start to race some pro-ams or LL then the engine work and lovely little goodies can help...some. Learning to test and adjust even your stock suspension is huge as well. Obviously the rider will always be the biggest factor in winning.

[@user-yq2bp1ho3n]

most riders will never notice the difference between suspension with kashima coating or not. The biggest difference is understanding what you want in regards to high speed comp and high speed rebound valving (not clickers). This requires testing and a tuner with a dyno to compare your feedback against the dyno chart. From there, fork height, chain length, free sag and clickers need to be tested. Most riders can't be bothered so they hope they can buy the results. They will get better than what they had (sometimes) but it will never truly match their needs because there's no short cuts in moto x.

[@kc117mx]

I do mostly desert and woods riding in AZ and NV. I bought an Ohlins shock and fork set and I immediately realized the difference. Suspension matters. My skill level has improved significantly because I am no longer fighting the bike or fighting fatigue. The bike is predictable and I can ride at a reasonable pace during an all-day event without making any critical mistakes or hitting the ground.

[@H8er-Maker]

I've never rode A-kit level stuff before but I would hope the feed back & forgiveness would be the biggest difference.

[@paulmryglod4802]

For me, the difference between stock and factory connection revalve sounds exactly like what these guys are explaining about A-kit. I split my forhead on my crossbar from hitting my head so hard between my goggles and helmet when i overjumped a triple on stock suspension. After relvalving, nothing phased me. Little bumps disappeared and huge landings were no big deal.

[@rcafmaintainer3723]

I agree, I had a factory connection tuned suspension back in the day on my 2005 YZ250F. That changed my riding experience completely, I trusted the bike a lot more from the stock suspension.

[@odiseemx3525]

Good JLaw reference, other examples would be like bagget launching into the texas 12, and Stew launching that wall jump to flat at daytona. Literally looked like it was so comfortable for them to be coming down with so much force without losing forward drive. Crazy.

[@johnnyskied]

It depends on their trajectory....if they can keep their forward momentum greater than their vertical drop rate it's possible to do that without bogging down too bad.

[@Aretumis]

I just read "difference between stock & a kit", all of a sudden I hear jlaw and blue diamond and I'm thinking who the f is this? It's God damn Schock. This kid is bad ass! Been watching him for years, love the progress he's made in such a deep ass field

[@allmtbnzscottbrownhill2896]

I was told good suspension makes going faster safer, my first thought was that's some BS sales pitch. After a few years pondering about suspension and making tweaks my self I was sick of having sketchy moments every time I rode on rough tracks which killed confidence. I spent the money with my Local RG3 guys to have the front and rear done with what ever I needed and i was very impressed ive only had 1 sketchy moment since then and ive done about 40 hours of bike time. The small bumps don't exist and the big hits don't matter anymore. Id imagine A Kit would just be another level up again with less sticktion for the small chop and less flex for the big hits. Looking forward to your video on this suspension after you ride it.

[@Fred-mv8fx]

I'd believe it. My stock KLX300's 43mm forks were wild. Then I upgraded them with Racetech parts and they were the best suspension I'd ever had, but they became overwhelmed in many situations. My Sherco's stock 48mm KYB forks just eat up the stuff I used to slow down for. I can't help but wonder what they would feel like with the full Racetech treatment after the KLX's transformation.

[@robdalbey430]

The MX tech stuff is amazing...

[@danepjevac8832]

Man I rode a friend's bike and it only had B-kit and i was like oh...ok, that's good. I'm getting my stock suspension worked on when I get home from work. I wanna set my damn world on fire haha!! After a call to SRS here in Perth he got me so excited to finally get suspension work done

[@garonburwell9008]

6:05 best thing you said, best feeling right there, "that's just my little space to do my shit right there" no better reason to do it.

[@stephenwilson1012]

RC said it best and I think ryno spoke on this, the bike does exactly what you think it's gna do. It's no different than any other tool, you have to know how to use it. It's not gna help if you have A kit suspension with a C rider mentality if that makes sense. If you put a common driver in an F1 car they don't become F1 driver. You have to know how to use your tools.

[@gobigorgohomeproductions458]

You’d be surprised what some c class riders can do just ask axel hodges....

[@GYPSYTALES]

🙌🏼

[@KosmicHRTRacingTeam]

@@gobigorgohomeproductions458 ya. Generally speaking, a C class rider knows how to ride a bike and is far from putting an everyday driver in an F1 car

[@megcantrell5760]

@@gobigorgohomeproductions458 Ask him if A-kit suspension would help him be a faster C rider?

[@megcantrell5760]

@@KosmicHRTRacingTeam An average novice/C class rider or Loretta Lynn's C class racer? Just curious which you're thinking because I'm fairly sure the person above was speaking average.

[@justinmatthews5262]

This is a SICK podcast man, love it!

[@billywray4524]

i like coty he should start his own channel. fwiw i was top 250 amateur in my distric. i never knew how to set up my suspension which back then 1973 wasnt much anyways but i won top amateur back then not knowing a thing about bike setup or anything else.i did work out with weights and ran for cardio and i remember i did try this one kids bike he knew how to set up a suspension and omg what a difference so i hear you coty

[@topher804]

Independent suspension saved my ass too many times to count. It's definitely the most important aftermarket component.

[@mountainmonkey172]

Ya and those pogo springs give you that bounce so you can jump like a pro🤙

[@donalddonaldson7211]

Saw a WP a kit for sale on FB for 4500, sticking to my stock suspension LOL it’s true though when I OJ on my stock tc250 16 the forks will bottom but you just have to adjust your riding style to ride the shock more, but you don’t wanna lean to far back on that 250 smoker!

[@dirtrider2234]

I’ve had Ohlins forks and shock on my last 2 bikes and will never waste my money on respring and revalve of stock suspension again. Night and day difference. Couldn’t imagine what factory stuff Is like.

[@dirtrider2234]

@@jaysmokey I bought them from Coppersmith racing, they took all my stats and set them up for me.

[@dirtrider2234]

@@jaysmokey man nailed it first time. The clickers are much more sensitive than stock setup. 1 click on Ohlins Is equal to 3-4 on stock. So they are very adjustable. They ruined me, looking to get another set for my 300xc woods bike.

[@kevinmoore4887]

Before and after test. Coty and you evaluate the change.

[@dustinmoto425]

A- kit kyb from the source or technicals touch is stock sss with coatings... kashima uppers, dlc lowers, billet lugs, that’s it for the forks A kit without revalve is not going to be much better than stock. Enzo offers revalve with a kit purchase. That’s where you notice the difference!

[@chrisgall4664]

This is true on the KYB's. Showa PC A kit is quite a bit nicer. Coating, surface treatment and different needles etc.

[@Papparratzi]

Hats off to Jase for recognizing Coty before the rest of the follow along media did. Side note. He reminds me of Mike Young at about the same age.

[@jarodolsen8955]

I had cone valve forks, and they saved my butt a couple of times after overjumping. Cornering was much more precise as well.

[@metrichotrods1763]

I used to ride Blue Diamond, wish that place would re open. Blue Diamond and Snake Creek are Delaware staples

[@richardferrell4362]

The snake is open again and it's better than it ever was

[@robdalbey430]

Blue Diamond is a UPS terminal now...I broke both legs there years ago on stock suspension

[@jakeforeman484]

I miss Speed Citi the most.

[@metrichotrods1763]

@@jakeforeman484 that's right. Ol Chuck Vane. Easton was good when he was doing it too. It's hard to believe at one point every one of those places was closed and now it's just the Snake. I'll have to get up there and ride the new Snake Crick

[@richardferrell4362]

@@metrichotrods1763 Easton is still open too, new owners from my understanding. Only open on Sundays. Its called the landing mx park now

[@nuthintoprove]

Back in 08 the 50mm works showa forks had bone stock internals. But everyone THOUGHT it was special; Placebo effect. Main thing is knowing how to test, testing and setting it up to your liking. Like food, sex, cars or art, we all have our preferences.

[@mattkeith5130]

A-kit means its a suspension that comes as a kit. Its not like its a-kit or b-kit rider performance. Its something in my opinion that has turned into a misconception over time. Kit suspension is limited just like oem until its set up properly (which takes testing and tuning). I've seen many riders buy these kits and only be as good as before and complain about the same characteristics. People don't need kit suspension, they need a Og tuner like enzo or someone with real proven tuning results at a national competition level to interprete what the rider feels into what needs modified. To many self proclaimed suspension experts selling that snake oil and skipping all the way to the bank.

[@GYPSYTALES]

You are right about the fact that it needs to be set up. But the components inside kit suspension- seals, coatings, pistons et - all do make a massive difference to the action… so it is inherently ‘better’ in that regard. But again, to your point yes you still need to set it up and an OG tuner would be the move.

[@S0RELOSER]

A-Kit = basically aftermarket set of forks & shock B-Kit = updated & improved OEM suspension (spring & dampening for the rider) Either way you point is valid, it must be setup for the rider. Which is why most riders would benefit a ton just from B-kit (essentially getting spring rates & dampening proper for that particular rider). Then the bike is predictable because it’s actually set up for the rider’s skill/weight.

[@garonburwell9008]

the difference is that when expensive parts have bad settings in them, it's sadder and more pathetic than when stock forks have bad settings in them

[@bikerdude6119]

Im waiting on an inner tube comp from japan for a 19 yz125 . Going on 4 weeks now... every weekend i wake up and cry

[@Mp-jw1qg]

im 6 foot 4 235 lbs, for me the difference in having 5k dollar suspension vs stock is me being able to go 15' in the air to flat without bottoming out. reason number 2 is being it makes your bike more consistent.

[@rjg967]

I'm the same dimensions, I have about $750 in parts and $500 labor into my '06 YZ450. I have flat landed a 12-15' double and rode away from it. It's still plush enough to ride off road. Definitely no A kit, but plenty good. Just make sure to service it annually

[@Mp-jw1qg]

@@rjg967 yeah, i tend to ride faster and jump higher than my skill level. so having the extra suspension is like having cheat codes . its very forgiving when i make errors, wich is a lot lol

[@mattpetrek712]

Jeremy at MXTECH is a LORD. Ive had the privilege to live an hour away from those guys, theyve done acouple bikes for me and there isnt one bad thing i can possibly say.

[@adamgoodman7795]

they did my bike. it's dialed in!!!!! super happy with it

[@zachholler8450]

Yup the national rear shock is dope. Best $2600 iv spent

[@GYPSYTALES]

That’s good to know!

[@tonyhouston3049]

Got a A kit from REP who was Factory KTM. Best investment I have made on my bike. Not cheap but saved me from a hospital trip or two and instills confidence I never had before.

[@travistuerschmann8746]

I am not fast. But I do have a national shock, with the little space man. Little space man saves lives!

[@pags1981]

Ohlins RXF internals in Showa 49 forks with kashima legs work a treat. Technical Touch KYB forks are also amazing.

[@uncoant4750]

All crashes should have a 'root cause analysis' done to determine corrective actions

[@William-ut1jn]

I scored a pair of the works 50 mm from WP. Iam a big guy 220. I put them on my 2020 sx250 and it was crazy i couldve hit cinder blocks and it wouldve felt like marshmallows. But they were so stiff. They were to much for me even after sending them in for service. I got the mx tech stuff. If your a regular local guy buy MX tech. Mine came perfect. Sag and a few clicks. I havent touched the settings.

[@tylerboone2786]

RIP Blue Diamond 🙌🏼

[@christophercastor6666]

It’s awesome to hear from a guy that grew up like the average rider. “My dad would say here’s a suspension and we’d go racing” is a humble statement. This is a rider wise well beyond his years.

[@christophercastor6666]

Met Coty at Budds this past weekend when he pulled off career best results! Awesome dude, definitely has a mellow aura about him. Huge fan!

[@motovalleyenduro]

The piece on setting the world on fire in your own way is priceless!!! Love that!!🤘🤘🤘

[@kylehoffman4440]

Jace u should keep track of your lap times on same track in different conditions b4 and after the A kit

[@GYPSYTALES]

We’ll make a video on it soon but I was quite a bit faster with the MXTECH stuff. I was pretty blown away.

[@kylehoffman4440]

@@GYPSYTALES thanks for the reply. Keep up the good work

[@mattheller517]

Roczen and tomac are the most technical riders like in ruts and raw speed

[@Cl4rky]

Is there anything wrong with modding your bike with cool shit just cause it’s cool shit! There’s guys who spend 10’s of thousands on their cars, rims, engine packages etc etc and these dudes aren’t professional drivers. They just like modding and having the best stuff. After all it’s a hobby. If you got the money, then fuck it buy 10k suspension I’m all for it 🤘🏼

[@GYPSYTALES]

you know what... amen...

[@peytonelmer5674]

Agreed, people may give you shit for doing it but that is just because they can’t afford it themselves. You make you ride however you want it and be proud of it. You worked for it.

[@natemiller448]

I can't stand Gypsy, but that initial description of "misjudging the prediction of what is gonna happen" is a perfect explanation.

[@GYPSYTALES]

Glad to be of service in some way Nate Miller

[@EarthSurferUSA]

"misjudging the prediction of what is gonna happen", --------------means they don't know what they are doing.

[@rogergauthier2769]

Really it just soaks up breaking bumps way better /acceleration bumps are smooth , rather than breaking you're back over them from. Has more plushness under load but is smoother . Idk hard to explain , but yeah it's nice.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

What breaking bumps? I just saw Cooper Webb get passed by Sexton, (Atlanta SX 2022), and Webb entered the next corner braking, and sitting down, like road racing.

[@KrisFoster782]

Saved my ass a few times for sure 🤘🏽😂

[@kirkdunn1379]

Had ton of suspension tuned and more than a few sets of ohlins TTX..... You have to test, adjust, test and adjust suspension to get it optimal.....this is what most dont do....even the pros are constantly testing and they have full time tuners To think you can send out a set of suspension to a tuner and he nails it perfect right off the bat is kinda ridiculous..... They get you in the ballpark is all.... Control, predictability and consistency is best you can hope for.....always a trade off between plushness over chatter and big hits....cant have both perfect....I would take bit stiffer fir control/safety over super supple

[@mehoffjack1874]

Suspension is everything on a motocross bike. The difference between a-kit and stock is the tune ability. You can only do so much with stock.

[@Floboyzlad17]

riding 4 bikes in 4 classes at one race is bad ass

[@lifeatfulldraw7163]

Yep I OJayed a kicker table top back when I raced.. table top was 60 off feet. I landed another 20 into the corner. First thought was im gunna break my legs. So I sat down. Ass hit the seat so fucking hard. Suspension bottomed and chassis hit the ground.. was just a dead stop. As I hit it felt like I broke back. I just let go of the bars and fell side ways.. ended up getting back on and finishing the race. Once I had cooled down. I couldn't walk. Next morning at the docs. Hair line.fractured my pelvis.

[@chupacabraracing181]

Sitting down was literally the worst thing you could have done 😂

[@bones6554]

Why would you sit down? 😔

[@fourtynine17]

Great guy

[@spice3767]

RC won a championship on stock suspension, but then he was / is super human 😂

[@paulmryglod4802]

'97?

[@jedielder7970]

In my mind, there are stock, no setup, stock with proper adjustments (more limited), stock with new springs and clicker adjustments (somewhat limited), stock with A-Kits installed (limited), stock with A-Kit installed and tuned correctly (less limited)... then there is factory suspension, which is basically unobtanium to regular riders and most privateers, all trick parts, materials, surface technology and master tuners (nearing unlimited).

[@jeffharden2797]

Wow. I was in the moto industry way back when. Got handed some Jlaw forks for my bike. Literally the best ever. Coming up short or going long was no worries.

[@kevingriffin5599]

That's cool that you are getting A kit suspension! Now go back and watch your race footage that you posted and compare your riding position to the faster riders. They stand and are accelerating where you are sitting and off the gas. You can't bolt on technique my friend. Keep having fun and learn all you can! Cheers.

[@GYPSYTALES]

Agreed!

[@HPRaceDevelopment]

most a kit is literally exact same parts. its all in set up - not suspension parts or piecwa

[@SpeedDemonExpress]

The real question is why aren't manufacturers putting this on their bikes as stock? The parts don't cost that much to make in volume, and the R&D is already done. They are screwing us.

[@cowpker4life333]

Because the parts are costly when its all cnc and very tight tolerances with stiffer tubes and spendy coatings. Most guys(70% or more I would guess) will never rebuild a fork or shock so why waste money on putting a 3-4000$ fork or shock on the bike stock. For most spending 1-1500 on a revalve stock suspension be plenty good(might take a few trys get prefect).

[@SpeedDemonExpress]

@cowpker4life333 I firmly disagree. I work in a aerospace machine shop, I know exactly what it takes to produce parts like that. Parts like this are very affordable to make. There is some r&d cost but pricing it out of reach isn't going to pay off. I think they price it that high because they don't want just anyone to have it. Aka privateer competition.

[@THEUNIT403]

@@SpeedDemonExpress no company is pricing stuff out of reach to keep people from having it lol thats not how successful businesses work. You’re obviously overlooking a lot of aspects here. you need R&D, testing, materials, cnc machines, staff, a shop, advertising and marketing, shipping, websites ect. Running a business is expensive especially when its small batch products in a niche market. There are not many facilities that can mass produce these types of precision products at scale. Thats why companies like KYB and ohlins exist in the first place

[@SpeedDemonExpress]

@THEUNIT403 I'm not overlooking that stuff. They would make a lot more money on that stuff made in high volume. I've worked in manufacturing all my life. Parts like this are inexpensive and quick to produce. Development costs are quickly recovered produced in high volume. This is the kind of thing that a Chinese company would target. They'd buy one and make copies for far cheaper, especially since they don't have to do any r&d. So for them to price gouge their product makes them a target.

[@grecoconduris6716]

Is that the MXY lucky fork cartridges?

[@GYPSYTALES]

Yeah I think the Blackbird is the next step up? I will know a bit more when I get them but I am going to do some kind of review video I reckon.

[@grecoconduris6716]

@@GYPSYTALES Cool, I look forward to it.

[@jordanvolz3153]

4:55-5:15 👌

[@jarredtremain4644]

Awesome way to explain differences. I always had stock suspension on my bikes and after OJ of big jumps it always hits hard, sometimes causing whiplash or big crashes. I once used my old boss's bike 01 CR250 with over &50,000 spent on it. The suspension along was worth more than my year old bike. I OJ'd big table top at track landing on flats and was expecting to be thrown off but I landed and felt so smooth with no rebound. Could jump like that all day on it and so easy. Getting back on mine felt like big was getting hit harder even over small bumps. Would be nice if bike companies installed bit better suspension to stock bikes. Avagud1

[@Jorgem1010]

After hearing this I want an A-kit now 😂

[@TheShift1313]

If you are on ktm AER stuff also look up Kreft moto. Some super trick parts that gives you external valving control without having to pull the fork apart.

[@Jorgem1010]

@@TheShift1313 I’m on a 2012 kx450f

[@ronk6553]

Will your skill level you won’t notice any difference tbh. The faster the go the more you will notice.

[@jenpsakiscousin4589]

Stock suspension sucked balls in the late 80s and 90s.

[@billb295]

Ok what's it cost guys?

[@HoppersAutoReviews]

Here’s an example of A-Kit suspension doing its magic kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYqwe5mja92tb8k at 12:25 in the video Jeff Lawrence OJs the fuck out of the jump and just keeps moving

[@willitwork4330]

Literally talking my language!!! I would take my CR500R perfectly setup for me than the latest 450 that is badly setup. My process like you Jase is a meticulous setup process from suspension to tyre pressure.

[@JsGarage]

Looks like Twix

[@speedpros]

Setting the world on fire according to how we feel how we rode um is that where racing is. Like lil league sports the losers get a trophy too. Tell that to the winners of races and championships that 2nd place is just as acceptable. Win you race you race for the win or at least to get better so you can get there. On minis I knew I was fast but was I Brian Swink fast, Jeff Emig fast or Jimmy Gaddis fast, no but no way if I raced them every weekend would I be satisfied with being behind them that is why we dream, train, practice and then to the gate to see who is the best that day. The inner David Bailey in me would never let me shut off till I beat my competitors. I might as well just ride practice if I wanna not put it on the line.

[@ricksmith7659]

Good suspension drastically reduces you going to the hospital

[@jenpsakiscousin4589]

Does anyone still run race-tech? Back in the day if you couldn’t afford fox or pro circuit that’s all there was.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

It is hard to find a suspension shop that does a good job today, but I don't think that included Race Tech. They are about the only company that can get my YZ internal parts too.

[@TheJoeml85]

the host reminds me of a rocket power kid he prob rides mx bmx skateboards surfs and roller blades 😂

[@tjracing3243]

Ain't it funny, that Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki in Japan factories don't design the best suspension parts and every other part on their bikes from the get go? They sure have the Engineers and MONEY to out do anyone in the market of performance.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Go buy a china bike. Honda, for example, probably still has the best quality in the world, for just about any manufacturing. I think my YZ250 2-stroke is a work of art. The suspension needed a lot of work for me though. Go make something to sell that only has a few parts, and see what you are up against. Now make a dirt bike. They don't grow ion trees.

[@loneventhorizon]

What's up with the desynced audio Jase. Get ya shit together

[@Scottstunts]

99 percent of riders don’t need to do anything with their suspension

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Wrong. The bikes are too damn tall for anybody under 5'11" tall,---so if you want a better ride, that is about 65% of the population that could use revamped suspension. It is just a matter of physics. Tall bikes don't turn as well as a proper lower bike and everybody needs a berm today. My stock 2019 YZ 250 2-stroke suspension was the worst set up out of the box I ever had. It was un-rideable,---but people like you get used to it,---and go slower.

[@chrisrogers3950]

True unless you want to go faster

[@dabh4204]

Once you got the best, you got no excuse tho lol

[@kjmaury5116]

Coty “Schock” see what i did there?

[@idecidenotyou]

This dudes forced accent cracks me up.. pay attention to when henforgets to use it.. normal words normal presentation.. normal.. then immediately goes back to drawn out mispronounced words..😂😂

[@EarthSurferUSA]

No way am I listening to you guys for anything technical. I am sure you can't even figure out an algebra problem. But you would probably build a shock better than PR2. I am correcting what they messed up right now. I don't think they can solve an algebra problem either. They sure don't follow directions, and will not back up their mistakes. The forks were OK though, (sans a nick, a "stress riser" for you non-algebra guys, from not packing them well for shipping back to me.).