🔴 What is "Too Heavy"? Weight vs. Capability - Gun Trend Talk 🔴

[@9HoleReviews]

Video starts at 8:11

[@pyeitme508]

Thanks

[@bashkillszombies]

Could you please review the HCAR? I've had a boner since I saw it two weeks ago, and the only cure is more HCAR.

[@HawkBlackUS]

Sorry I missed the live keep up the good work guys. I run a fully setup Block 2 M4 SOCOM Heavy Barrel Setup with a NF ATACR 1-8, offset dot, LA5 , SF Supressor , Light and a sling Comes in a little north of 12 pounds unloaded. 😂

[@Mygg_Jeager]

I said this before and I'll say it again, and I'll say it again in the future: It's not the weight that's the problem. It's where it's balanced. A 7 lb rifle with 6 of those pounds out forward past where your left hand rests on a handguard or a grip, is incredibly hard to hold up and at the ready for lengthy periods of time. Where as a 10 lb rifle that's balanced between both hands or between the shooting hand and the shoulder, can be held up at the ready rather indefinitely.

[@bghiggy]

A lot of people don't seem to understand the insanely long lines of sight you can have in an urban environment. Having the magnification to see a target that might be 400+ yards away isn't that crazy of a thought. The street I live on that I can see the end to is 300 yards long.

[@chrisclark6161]

It's people seem to forget that modern cities are built in a grid layout with long, straight streets. Or that they often times have open parks, are built on water ways, or have elevated terrain. I live in Richmond, Va, an older city with a less grid structure in some areas, and shots beyond 1k yards completely feasible in many areas. I feel like too many base their rifle on whatever SF teams are doing at the time, and they don't really consider the sheer amount of resources required to make SF teams function. I think that's why I see a lot of "my 10.5" ar pistol with just a red dot is perfect for the city." That's almost certainly not going to be the case. Either that, or they're counting on fighting video game opponents that always fight within the parameters of the capabilities that player 1 brought.

[@bghiggy]

@@chrisclark6161 100%. People set up their rifles based on dudes with literally hundreds of millions of dollars in assets supporting them. When you can literally land a helicopter on someone's roof and have a team of 10 guys take a house from top to bottom its perfectly reasonable to only have a 10.5 with a red dot. Now try doing that with a 4 man team (if you're lucky) and stalk in to the target from 5 kilometers away with no air support or qrf. Not gonna go well lol

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

Yep. "Urban isnt CQB" as BrassFacts put it. There's a lot of city outside of ones house, and although speed up close where it matters is great, PID at distance and the ability to make hits at those distances is just as important. I guess the good news is cities tend to have a lot of cover, but still.

[@imadude7910]

I have literally no idea how this notion ended up spreading. Just look around in a city or even the suburbs and it’s evident that it’s MOSTLY medium-long range depending on your definitions. I mean, how wide is a parking lot? What can you see from an 8th floor window? Artificial spaces are probably the most clear long sightlines you’ll get outside of a flat desert because everything else has been cleared away.

[@victordogeman]

I always encourage people to go out and spend $150-$300 on a digital rangefinder, and bring it around with them, in their car, backpack, whatever. Range lines of sight you often encounter in your everyday life. Before doing this, I would not have guessed that the line of sight from my apartment to the road was 200 yards. As many have said, urban does not necessarily equal CQB; you likely have several hundred yard lines of sight constantly throughout your day without having ever really considered it. If things ever went awry, to where leaving with a long gun really made sense, you would be really happy to have pre-ranged your day to day environment. It’s also a great way to learn to eyeball distances - guess the distance, then verify w the range finder. You’ll be surprised how quickly you can pick it up

[@TheNextGreatApe]

Whenever I see one of these kinds of videos I'm always reminded of the famous anecdote about Chesty Puller, when a journalist complained to him about the BAR and whether it was fair to expect an average person to be able to handle one. His response was that the issue never came up with him since anybody who couldn't handle a BAR didn't have any business being in the Marine Corps.

[@9HoleReviews]

Savage, haha.

[@charlesm.2756]

I was a 203 gunner in Iraq...with a mounted PEQ-2, old school Surefire, and ACOG. If you handed me a 10lb rifle, I would have been grateful! I guess it's all a matter of perspective?

[@seikatsu4life]

For real bro. Imagine your 240 gunner running around with a feeder belt that ways as much as an m4... the whole weight discussion seems remarkably trivial.

[@johnnybagofdoughnuts4193]

A decade after Nutnfancy crushed it; size and weight constraints (SAWC) along with firepower vs mobility.

[@facilegoose9347]

Overmatch & Endurance in the context of Gaza _Red Dawns_ matters, however you balance it. You & yours are your own cavalry. e.g. the Police Station guys that ran out of ammo and/or incapacitated by RPGs. Even if the outcome is _The Alamo_ the longer you're not dirt napping is more time they're not moving on to take mayhem elsewhere with fewer casualties. Take MACVSOG for instance: weight's a matter of indifference if you anticipate having to shed it with prejudice, if at all. Can't hope for the best if you haven't planned for the worst, with a good conscience anyhow--

[@depthcharge126]

Nutn stays winning. So ahead of his time for this community

[@mrkeogh]

"Tabletop review of why an iron-sighted Glock 17 is better than an 11.5" carbine with an LPVO..." 😐

[@mh3225]

It turns out, people with autism are incredibly knowledgeable in their hyper focused interests.

[@SS-tr5ru]

Nutnfancy is a joke

[@richardsveum8452]

I carried a M16 A1 through Basic and an M60 A1 through the rest of my service, then include the 1911A1 and 3 loaded mags on top of that load that all machine gunners carried as a PDW during that era. At the end of a 12 mile road march even with an assault sling that was a heavy load. I would have loved to have had a 10 pound rifle .

[@jackaubrey8614]

How about a Carl Gustav 84mm rcl plus sight (34 lbs) with a L1A1 SLR (UK FN FAL) weighing 11 lb 2 oz (with full mag) ? :) Personal weapon was supposed to be an L2A3 (Stirling SMG weighing 6 lbs) but in the runup to changing to the L85 all our smg's were ditched...)

[@moistjohn]

240 gunner here. If the 240 counted toward my jump weight, I'd never be able to make it on the plane. Even then, ammo weight has to be the biggest killer.

[@moistjohn]

​@@jackaubrey8614Goose is uncomfortable. Javelin is unbearable.

[@gimiked8685]

Saw gunner here. A 10 lbs rifle sounds good 👍

[@krainex]

I still dont know what is 10 pounds

[@darklyripley6138]

Ran a 14lb HK416 overseas. It sucked. And a lot of my colleagues had heavier setups. They had heavier stocks, optics, suppressors(KAC NT4 is heavy), and rails. We weren’t doing long patrols, so it didn’t really matter, but you still feel it.

[@rzr2ffe325]

Yeah the gas tube everyone loves to hate is one of the M4 / AR’s greatest attributes

[@seikatsu4life]

Having been a Machine gunner for quite some time the concept of a "heavy" rifle is silly. Going from a 23lbs 240L unloaded no optics etc to a fully kitted out m4 makes the m4 feel like a toy. The weight discussion of a gpr is honestly quite silly.

[@darklyripley6138]

@@seikatsu4life I think it has value for people who do certain jobs. If you are doing treks through the Hindu Kush, and every ounce feels like a pound, you’d definitely want a lighter rifle. Lighter rifles mean more ammunition. For example, I ran a MK17 in Afghanistan. Light rifle, but I couldn’t carry enough ammunition. So I switched to a 416. But even then, I couldn’t carry enough ammo. A really light rifle frees up weight that can be used to carry other stuff. But for others, weight doesn’t matter. During another deployment(the one where I carried to super heavy 416), I was doing a lot of vehicle work, DA, and instructing. I wouldn’t have had such a heavy rifle if I had to carry it for more than two hours. It’s all dependent upon the job being done. As a 0331(assuming you’re USMC), your knees and back probably suck nowadays. That’s why we talk about weight.

[@seikatsu4life]

There is certainly a conversation to be had pertaining to weight, and certain fields of work for sure. I guess it depends on the target audience for the video. But let's be honest very few service members have the luxury of adjusting their weapon system or kit to any great degree. So if we're assuming the conversation is for civilians let's be real here the vast majority aren't going to be doing much of anything outside their local range, and if their prepping for the end of the world most need to hit a treadmill before worrying about a pound or two on their rifle, and that's where it feels like the conversation becomes a tad silly. I'm not sure your background but as a career 11B I didn't have a lot of choice regarding what I carried, how much ammo I carried, what kit I was able to use, etc. You can add to the packing list but you can't take away from it as the saying goes. Joe's are gonna carry what they're told to carry regardless of weight considerations. And civilians are going to, considering the comments in the video, not carry anything but an unloaded gun to the range 😂. You're definitely right about my knees and back but I suspect that has less to do with the weight of the weapon system and more to do with real world injuries, # of miles rucked in full kit, falling out of perfectly good aircraft, etc. I suspect this because I haven't come across an infantryman yet that doesn't have knee and back problems from years of service. Some never having carried a machine gun. I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but I guess I'm at a loss for who this video is for? I guess it's a good thought experiment for those who set up their home defense rig for a end of the world as we know it type scenario.

[@darklyripley6138]

@@seikatsu4life I understand. All this stuff is very hypothetical. Civilians aren’t going to be rocking kit. Unless you carry a gun for a living, this stuff doesn’t really apply. I think you’re downplaying the level of control some soldiers have over their kit. I know a lot of 11B’s who are allowed to trick out their rifles. Hell, I know a guy in the 82nd has has RIS 2 rails and Block 2 uppers. I think this is more of just a fun thing to talk about and educate others on. Lots of our military is allowed control over their weapons. Lots of police are allowed control over their rifles. Lots of foreign militaries have control over their rifles, etc.

[@blurgb2590]

Balance makes a huge difference and I think it will be one of the final things to optimize with the goal of getting as much weight away from the muzzle as possible.

[@kylesmith7733]

This is my exact GPR setup currently Kp-15 lower 1.7lbs Aero upper 8.4 oz BA Hanson 14.5 .625gb 21oz Bcm mcmr 13 10.5oz Bcg 11.5oz Airborne charging handle 1.5oz Rearden RC2 flash hider 2.5oz Midwest canted irons 4oz Pa slx 1-6 18oz Aero ultralight mount 3.4oz Mod light in Arisaka inline mount 6oz Witt machine mod 1 supressor 14oz Bcm fore grip 2oz Magpul ms3 slight 8oz Total weight 138oz / 8.63lbs No NV because poor but as a peq15 at 8oz/.5lb and still under 10lbs for all the goodies.

[@victordogeman]

I’d throw a fully loaded mag in it, and see what it does for the weight. If you don’t have a hanging type scale, you can just step on your bathroom scale, note your weight, then step on it again with your fully loaded rifle. I think you’ll be surprised just how much that 30rd magazine adds when fully loaded. A lot of 8.5 lb setups are 10lbs in disguise lol.

[@heyhayhay247]

​@@victordogemana loaded mag is barely more than 1 pound. It also doesn't matter as all ARs will use the same mag so that weight affects every build the same.

[@ryang8040]

13.7-14.5 with either an ACOG/red dot combo or an LPVO/red dot combo. Add a suppressor, white light, or LAM as needed. Incredibly capable setup especially with 77 grain ammo. Sounds like you already found that out though...

[@fujimi715]

Everything except suppressor and add red dot/magnifier. I don't think a suppressor is a requirement. I think IR laser is but that depends on if someone has NV. If they simply can't afford it then that attachment is irrelevant and you can negate the weight. I didn't feel like my M4A1 was heavy until I added the DBAL

[@billydanzz]

@@fujimi715Exactly.... The suppressor is all the rage thanks to youtube. Push comes to shove, I can live with tinnitus.

[@FXIIBeaver]

@@fujimi715 suppressor gives WAAAY too many advantages to just ignore. Suppressors are mandatory. Reduced sound and light signature far outweigh a. IR laser/light combo.

[@Minutes-Mils]

Exactly the setup I have, love 13.7s

[@fujimi715]

@@FXIIBeaver lol ironically you contradicted yourself..... NV capabilities allow you to see at night without giving away any visible signature....

[@GrayIze]

"It's not like you get traumatized" Immediately describes symptom of trauma.

[@SchwererGustavThe800mm]

This may sound wild to most, but my GPR is an M1 Carbine. Naked w/ 18" barrel? 4.5lbs. Added a light, optic & sling, 6.5 lbs. Good to 300, I live in foothills & thick vegetation. Ammo is available in this rural area, so are parts. I also have 1000 rounds in reserve and can carry more of it than 5.56. 5.56 & 9mm are also the first to fly off shelves, 30 Carb has longer shelf life AND is used in both my rifle as well as my sidearm. (Fulton Armory M1, AMT Automag III)

[@geoechidna]

I think balance plays a huge part as well. My 5.56 milled AK with an LVPO weighed about 9.5 pounds, but had a good balance point and pointed well. It certainly was not “light”, but it was comfortable to shoulder. Meanwhile I’ve shot some seriously unwieldy mall ninja ARs that may actually have been lighter in weight but felt horrible to shoulder and aim due to how awkward and front heavy they were. Like the one of the biggest advantages of the AR to the AK is weight saving and some people just say “aight bet” and make the most awkward, front-heavy Big Chungus video gamey meme builds they can and all I can say is “Why…?” 😂

[@cowmaneater1243]

I agree. Balance is certainly an x factor

[@BlakeJoy]

Same my 16" AR-15 has a LAM, Light, Suppressor, 1-8x LPVO, irons, and a offset dot. Only came in at 9.9lbs not super light but it's balance point is right in front of the mag well. So when it's shouldered it doesn't feel front heavy at all and again that's with a 1lb Inconel tube hanging off the front lol. Also forgot to say, I run a rifle buffer tube with a a1 lancer fixed stock and a spacer that converts it to use carbine spring and buffer. This spacer is close to 4oz but that its at the end of a rifle buffer tube it actually helps the balance.

[@windwalker5765]

I mean, that's about the same weight as an M1 Garand, which was _clearly_ not too heavy for soldiers to be effective. And an AK with an optic is more useful (heresy) than a Garand.

[@michaels5210]

I run a silencer on my AR15 and unfortunately in my state AR15’s by law have to have a heavy profile barrel(which doesn’t actually have a clear legal definition but we’re not here to find the logic in stupid gun control laws are we)…. POINT BEING…. I’d have a lighter profile barrel if I could and I’d still run a can cuz in my PERSONAL OPINION…..a silencer is a very important capability for a civilian rifle…. As we aren’t all constantly walking around with ear pro or have ear pro staged with your home defense rifle to turn on when something goes bump in the night. I put a can on KNOWING it would make my rifle very front heavy but to that I said “just train with it and get good”. To try to minimize this weight penalty it’s a 14.5 PW so the weight is a little less far out, I also only run a non-ridiculous white light on the front and that’s it, so I keep the front weight down where I can. Optic weight is a little less important cuz it arguably sits in the area of least consequence…. At least it doesn’t make too big a difference between most optic options with magnification. Obviously a T2 with no magnifier will be noticing lighter than anything with magnification except those micro prisms.

[@michaels5210]

@@cowmaneater1243 putting a can on a bullpup fixes the balance lol

[@BlakeJoy]

I'm happy with my current build that I spent over a year researching and planning out lol. 16" AR-15 with a LAM, Light, Suppressor, 1-8x LPVO, irons, and a offset dot. Only came in at 9.9lbs not super light but it's balance point is right in front of the mag well.

[@fish41101]

I think your scale might be off. Maybe if your base rifle is a wwsd or some ultra light build

[@Blaidd7542]

Why the LVPO and red dot? You've compromised your scope to get 1x and illumination and then made it redundant by adding a red dot, if you don't need the LVPOs 1x wouldn't a 2-10 or 3-12 be a better and lighter scope?

[@felixonline1825]

​@@Blaidd7542he said he has a lam, so most likely owns NV goggles. You can't passive with a magnified optic or prism sights that easily, so you put a rds on top

[@Blaidd7542]

@@felixonline1825 the only reason for a civilian to have a laser aiming module is for aiming right? Also he said offset red dot, not top mount. A offset dot would be awkward to use wearing nods with the LVPO in the way.

[@yzhou05]

Didn’t say it had a sling…

[@IFB489]

OEF, OIF vet here. For a GP rifle. Light, sling, and optic 14.5 or 16in barrel. I was in when they issued an A2 then when we upgraded to a A4 with the ACOG, PEQ2, Light and sling (2 point not 3). Made money. Even in 2004 when everyone was issued the same. 03 to 2009 was a big jump in issued rifles.

[@FrankMuchnok]

I invented a prototype Pic-rail mounted adjustable anti-gravity module for rifles that I could market for under $200. It could offset up to 47 lbs. during initial testing. I had a minor set back though when my grandson cranked on the adjustment knob and my whole test rifle floated away with my only prototype module before I could grab it. If any of your viewers finds a rifle with a strange glowing box with nuclear warning label on the Pic-rail, DON'T OPEN IT !!! Please contact me for a generous reward for returning it. Thanks All.

[@SauerkrautIsGood]

This is why you make weight conscious part decisions. One option may be a little better than another but usually capability costs weight. Is that 6 ounce light that much better than a 4 ounce light? Is that 9 ounce red dot really much better than a 6 ounce red dot? Do you really need those M-Lok grip panels? Do you really need that full length 15" handguard, or can you save a few ounces by going with a 13" handguard? If you do this for every enabler, or (even better) every part of the base build, then you can get a really capable carbine that handles like your buddie's brand new build that doesn't have all the fixings yet.

[@murphy7801]

Honestly lots of things in metric system makes so much more sense. 1 litre of water is roughly a 1kg. 1 litre occupys a 10 cm cube. So you always know the volume with litres.

[@michalbarsfajny4268]

And everything goes by 10. Centimeter has 10 milimiter, decimeter has 10 centimeters, meter has 10 decimeters.. Simple, makes sense, easy to imagine in real life

[@jameshealy4594]

Generally agreed but 1 litre of water is exactly 1kg 😉

[@possumpatrol45]

My AR weighs 3.2 Bald Eagles per Double Cheeseburger - roughly the equivalent of ten boxes...that you might be moving.

[@ExtremeSquared]

We really let President Washington down by continuing to use the King's units for this long.

[@mrkeogh]

Seeing DEVGRU go back to slimline Noveskes with ScalarWorks mounts and T2s was pretty reassuring. Even those guys appreciate a lighter set-up when that's all the mission calls for. FWIW, in metric countries you can get 5 litre buckets of paint, which would weigh 11 lbs if one litre weighs one kilo (2.2 lbs). But paint is probably heavier per quart/litre than water...

[@darklyripley6138]

They still primarily use 416’s. I ran one(Not DG, just want to make that clear), and mine weighed around 15lbs.

[@MedicalTape_xX]

This really highlights how insane the KP-15 and carbon fiber handguard combo is

[@a-stardesigns1453]

Can't wait for the URGI practical accuracy video!

[@9HoleReviews]

It's gonna be a banger

[@a-stardesigns1453]

@@9HoleReviews Validating my purchases after the fact is always the best 👌

[@buff34x]

The only time I used my white light while I was active was during daylight. Granted that was only ever force on force training, no real combat but at night we always just used our PVS14s and IR lasers. During the day when clearing MOUT towns going from the mid-day sun to trying to clear corners in darkened buildings before my eyes had a chance to adjust is when I needed a light the most.

[@aetius9]

I've seen this in videos from Ukraine as well. WMLs are common on both sides not for night fighting, but for looking into darkened bunkers and hidey holes during the day.

[@509Gman]

In Iraq 2007 we went white light any time we cleared a structure. We weren’t worried about stealth tho, the helicopter insertion kinda made that moot. For citizen use applications outside the flat range I think a white light is a necessity. I’d rather be dead than wrong if I’m about to pull a trigger.

[@Doc41295]

My 13.7" GPR weighs a little over 9 pounds unloaded. It has a 1-8 PLXc and a Modlite OKW on it, no suppressor and no IR stuff. I don't think it feels heavy to carry or awkward to maneuver at all.

[@9HoleReviews]

Sounds like a perfect setup for how we do our GPRs

[@stibbbs]

Original kitted-out rifles, think: MACV SOG, and Son Tay Raid during November 1970 in Vietnam with SOF using the Singlepoint Occluded Eye Gunsight (OEG).

[@kamilpiekarczyk3566]

My Block II is about 12.1 unloaded simillar setup to jeff's Block II, Socom 14.5 barrel, EoTech Vudu 1-10, deltapoint on top, peq-15, Surefire vampire Light, B&T SF can. I must say even its 12.1 with the can it feels not so horrible. Take of the can and its nicely balanced.

[@ThomasBrucefye]

I think if you follow the 300m, PID to 300m, a sling, sub 10 pounds is absolutely doable. 8-8.5 makes sense as a target for a magnified red dot, 14.5-16 inch barrel, mlok handguard, small grip, white light, sling. As long as you mind the oz on most of your parts, you can hit that target. I think if you go up to 18" with an lpvo that's more a DMR less a GPR, just like if you drop down to 10.5-11.5 and put a suppressor, holographic, LAM, etc that's a more specialized platform.

[@AJPPP]

I feel like Law Folders only really work on severely overgassed guns. Any gas-checked setup I've put one on always chokes because of the added weight and drag of the spacer/adapter.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

Well, yeah, you're adding weight to the system. Its like tuning an AR on a CAR buffer and slapping an H3 in it. If you add a LAW folder you've gotta lighten the buffer accordingly.

[@MrCashewkitty]

I found this out the hard way too.

[@MsTugg]

my M16A4 with sling, foregrip, ACOG and RMR with 30rds of M855A1 in an aluminum mag weighs 10.5 pounds...no peq15, no light, no bayonet, nothing extra. Balances like a fine english double rifle and points well. Reloads necesitate tucking under the armpit.

[@LDR1100RS]

Please don't forget the Special Poverty Rifle project!!!

[@benb50001]

My rifle weighs exactly 1.011 M16 A2's.

[@PapaDon850]

My AR15 18” 416R SS 223 Wylde, Sig Tango 1-6 MSR with a Magpul sling and streamlight w/pressure switch. Magpul 30rd mag 77 grain 556AAC. It weighs 10 lbs on the nose loaded. QCB to 500/600 yards capable. It’s my version of a SPR/DMR lite. I built the rifle with the purpose of being able to cover the whole spectrum and keep it under 10.5 lbs.

[@dan3162]

Over 10lbs is stupid, Deployed multiple times, started with minimal optimization and slowly added more assets to the point that when I got to Kabul that I realized the error and began stripping it back down…only the magnification of my optic became my main concern, along with ease of transitioning from either side of the body with a single point sling

[@snoddycasualplayah3241]

My Ranch Rifle = 9lbs w/o Mag. 18" Ruger MPR, Vortex SE 1-8 with an A2 Buttstock. My Go To AR = 7lbs w/o Mag. 16" Unbranded AR, Vortex UH-1.

[@jonathansmith7306]

I just weighed my home defense gun: 10.1 lbs loaded. That's an 11.5" bcm sbr, suppressor, big white light, troy iron sights, retro vertical grip, Eotech, extra bolt in the pistol grip

[@EcchiRevenge]

No such thing is too heavy. Depending on your pattern of power armor.

[@509Gman]

Ad Victoriam, brother

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

War, war sometimes changes.

[@michaels5210]

I’m a LEO in a semi urban area and my ideal patrol rifle setup is pretty damn near identical to my ideal civilian general purpose rifle. Standard AR15 with a 14.5 PW(for that pesky NFA), with a red dot mag combo, white light, and suppressor.

[@DonRaynor]

This is Exactly what I have as my GPR. with a 3x magnifier, I'm finding it lacks a touch in PID capabilities, may I suggest 4x magnifier or maybe LVPO?

[@michaels5210]

@@DonRaynor I actually have a 4x on it hahaha.

[@antonw-uw4ov]

Totally agree that people in generall have really no clue of what different setups weight. I have a .223 AK with Lpvo, offset red dot, AR-15 magwell, full length handguard, and AR15 stock. It weights 8lbs. I get people saying that's a heavy gun....

[@exodusz19]

My Battle Rifle is fat and happy. 11 pounds loaded with optic and light. I’ve gotta increase those numbers with a Suppressor & NV

[@Andrew85or]

Just weighed mine, 13.2 lbs loaded. Though I have the Atlas bipods on a QD, so can easily strip quite of bit of weight off quickly. Like you and need to add a suppressor. Gotta pump those numbers!

[@jonathane8585]

You train with what you have. I cleared rooms, fought on rooftops, and patrolled all day with an M16A4 from Fallujah to Ramahdi. Would I have liked to have a lighter rifle? YES! But I made what I had work... And work very effectively. Semper Fi!

[@ryguyw1]

13.9 Triarc with a Steiner 1x4, Arisaka light and a sling is how we are rolling currently. You bring up a good point about balance though. I need to switch out the stock for something heavier to even the whole thing out. Good video boys 🤙🏼

[@coltonowens2742]

Is Triarc rolling out product again? Last I heard the only guy getting Triarc stuff was jims goon life while everyone else was waiting a year plus for anything Triarc.

[@ryguyw1]

@@coltonowens2742 not sure about current production, but ya I ordered mine in 2019 at the very beginning of the pandemic and had to wait about 8-9 months so I guess I kind of lucked out. I know the wait time got ridiculously long but It’s a solid rifle. Little pricey. Nothing my BCM can’t do for less.

[@DTreatz]

@@coltonowens2742They were taking forever fkin ever so I decided I'd go with Criterion CORE...then of course those mfkers at triarc release stuff again, too little too late.

[@run_lift_communicate]

Just checked my three go to guns: 1)16in Aero M5 308 11.4lbs. 2)14.5in pinweld PSA Sabre 8.4lbs. 3)10.5 223wylde BRN-180 pistol with tail hook brace 8.2lbs. All three were weighted with full mags 30rds for 556 and 20rds for 7.62*51. All were with Optics. Lpvo on Aero. And red dot with prism on 5.56’s. These results surprised me.

[@Sprice93USAF]

My 11.5 w/ sling, cloud rein, aimpoint + magnifier, silencer, and law folder is just under 11lbs.

[@victordogeman]

I sometimes wonder how many people actually have access to a hanging type hook scale to weigh their gun. My 5.56 PWS MK114, 14.5” pin and weld with a rein 3.0, magpul VFG, Scalarworks fixed front iron/ rear folding iron, cyclops 1x microprism on an ADM qd mount, + sling, weighs 9.44 lbs. my 5.56 sig spear LT 11.5” with an OWL, same bui+ optic, with a magpul handstop and sling, weighs 9.64. Both fully loaded. The piston guns weigh more, but neither feels heavy, and you can get away with a slightly higher weight when the weight isn’t super front loaded on a longer barrel. My dd5v3 16” .308 with a rein 3, Scalarworks fixed BUIs, vortex UH1, and sling weighs 11.5 lbs, but feels notably heavier than the other 2 because a lot of that weight is front loaded. It’s still totally usable, you just feel it a bit more. Also, these are all weights with fully loaded mags (30 on the 5.56’s, 20 on the 7.62 nato/.308). In my humble opinion, 9-12 lbs is more than doable, and even moreso if you have a setup where most of the weight is backloaded / around the receiver, rather than sticking out in front of you. I expected the AR10 to be 12+, but was shocked to find the 5.56 spear LT 11.5 pistol and 14.5 PWS pin and weld were 9 and change - you hear so much about 7-8lb setups. That being said, as I mentioned, the long stroke piston design of the PWS weighs a bit more than a DI, and the short stroke piston of the Sig weighs significantly more than a DI. An AR10 just weighs more anyway. But yeah, those useful attachments add up. We have a BAR in the shop I work at - 19.8lb unloaded. When you consider the avg ww2 soldier was 5’6-5’7, and 150lb … well, I understand why they were always hip firing that thing now, hahaha. 20lbs is a crazy amount of gun to be shouldering and firing accurately. 10lbs ? Much more doable than it might seem. I actually find that 6-8lb guns feel extremely light to me, and I’d like to build something with only a lightweight light and micro rifle dot, like a t2/ Romeo 4xt pro, and see if I can’t get towards that 7lb mark

[@Flashhideronly]

I’ve noticed some people deployed to Afghanistan and mostly stayed on base where they would have engagements from distance only so they think Afghanistan is a long distance engagement area. Where they were on a base and that’s why. When in my experience along with hundreds of others we saw almost half of not more than half our engagements were CQB and working in that 100-25 meter battle space clearing compounds and villages.

[@ChaohsiangChen]

Aside from ACR, Bushy also needs to bring back Carbon 15, cause piling shit on carbine is too heavy.

[@aloyalspacemarine5761]

Eh. I had a carbon 15 circa 2012 it was okay. Honestly I ended up swapping the components onto aero aluminum receivers because i broke the front retaining pin slot on the upper and decided it was gonna be better to just swap shit over than wait for another poly upper

[@high633]

I have both of those. Acr is my go to rifle if i want 556. The carbon 15 is a super light and handy rifle but i wouldn't run it as my go to rifle. That poly lower just leaves me with the feeling of waiting to be left hanging with a broken off buffer tube. As well as after a quick 60-90 rounds the gun turns into a hand warmer. That could be the poly quad rail the gun came with making it seem worse than it truly is though. Never tried tricking it out as it was my first ar so i left it with a red dot and shot it.

[@509Gman]

Fuck a Carbon-15. KP15 is superior, even if you don’t put a WWSD upper on it

[@high633]

@@509Gman hes going for max weight savings. So while yes it is as far as polymer lowers go. The fact is is it weighs more and that delta is made larger why the fact the upper on the carbon 15's are also polymer. I'd be kinda interested to see how light you could actually make a standard 16 inch ar by using all lightweight components. Obvoisuly you'd be losing pretty much all strength to several key parts from a rough handling perspective. But thats where you could roll some weight back on to help the rifle not be so delicate.

[@Serenityindailylife]

I love that Rob saw that you went to the one thing that could cause a rift and he just blew it away. Its almost like he was preparing for it. I noticed that garbage being put on all of the weapons for decades. For military reasons you put that stuff on because you have 1 rifle for the most part. My m14ebr didnt have any NV capabilities. My 10 in m4a1 had NV capabilities because it was designed to go indoors or caves. I had to make that argument to command. 90% of the time i went inside the rifle either stayed in the vehicle or was slung and my sidearm was used. It had a white or red light 90% of the time (i bought ir myself later) the rest of the time i used a white light or red light on very low setting. No 1000 lumen lights, they are useless. A 10lb carbine is heavy. 3l of coke is 10lbs My ebr was 13lbs.... I had a CSM try to make uniform changes to my team. I told to get a combat patch or 2 and id listen. At the time i was a cw3 with 3 deployments and around 18-20 firefights under my belt. My bn cdr told me to go to admin and pick up my civ clothing authorization and relaxed grooming standards memo. The only thing i required was the ifak on the 8 oclock position.

[@Ivan-vn1pd]

this conversation is also very interesting since i use an AR for deer hunting. A fixed 3x scope with a 14.5 suppressed .300 blk rifle is really nice in the woods and suburbs. With a 150 yard zero that is something that works pretty well for the forrest's of michigan

[@patb7723]

Fellow 300 blackout that uses for hunting my 16 inch ballistic advantage modern series barrel is pretty nice profile and with my two point sling it's pretty easy to carry around all day in the woods

[@FinalLugiaGuardian]

If weight is no issue... Barret M82 + 1000 rounds.

[@ryuhadouken2722]

I have a sharps rifle with a 34 inch and weighs 16 pounds alone. With a Malcom x 6x scope it weighs 17-17 1/2 lbs. chambered in 45-70 shooting either black powder or smokeless. Currently I use a 535gr bullet and able to get a 1.5-1.2 moa at 100 yards. Mind you it’s a single shot rifle. The rifle technically can use a picatinny rail, it has a double set trigger. First trigger is roughly 5-10lbs reason is you can adjust it. Then there is the hair trigger which takes the slack off the first trigger making it anywhere to be 1 pound to 2 pound trigger pull. The rifle was designed specifically made to shoot buffalo/bison in the late 1800s. It was one of the few rifles to also defend against native Americans. The farthest recorded shot was done by Billy Dixon shooting an Indian off a horse at around 1,300 yards with iron sights using the 50-90. Is it a battle rifle? Yes and at the same time no. It has the power to rip right through a full grown buffalo.

[@peterharmon7852]

Coming from someone who owns a 551 and an sr15 the Knights is by far my favorite even though I want to like the sig more. The sig is far too heavy. If I had to take my rifle out of the house for whatever precarious situation I don’t imagine a reason why I would grab the sig. the KAC is superior just because of weight

[@SGCXD]

One crazy part of the image with the 9 different environments is that you have to consider the world within a world. If you’ve optimized for #8, you really should have optimized for #1. Also #1 contains major elements of almost all other images. That 9-hole ven diagram will make your head spin

[@liamcraig374]

16 inch basic m4gery with Eotech 512, 2 point sling, and Magpul mbus is my GPR . Everything I’ve deemed I need in my regular use of the carbine for home defense/camp defense where I camp which is quite remote. Only thing that I would potentially change is adding magnification if I lived in an area with more open space. However I live somewhere where I’m either in my little town of 5000 or I’m in a national/state/county forest. Different strokes for different folks I suppose!

[@PlanetRibooted]

Minimum capabilities (force multipliers) are sling, NV capable red dot, streamlight tlr-vir2 (white light, IR illum and IR laser).

[@foxtrotunit1269]

The 14,5" with a direct thread K-Silencer is ideal. Length-wise. (also lightweight) It's 18"-equivalent since the silencer is 4" and cca 0.5" of barrel screws into it. (a shorter K-silencer doesn't work well on 10/11") The ideal setup is cca *8.5lbs* - BCM Recce-14 MCMR - Rifle - InForce WMLx - flashlight - Primary Arms SLx 3x - Prism sight - Silent Steel Micro Streamer (DirectThread) - K-Silencer One can have the silencer pin/weld to the barrel, making it not an SBR. The inside of the can pulls out from the front for maintenance (the out side part which is welded to barrel is registered, the inside bits are not).

[@GarthKlaus]

What weighs 10lbs? Breakfast: a gallon of milk, two boxes of cereal, and a 1/2 gallon of orange juice.

[@NDSTRUCTIBLE1]

My System is basically you need to build over time a few rifles/pistols. Start with a GPR this should be a from 13.7 up to a 16 inch barrel rifle with a weaponlight and magnified optic. Optic should be a red dot/holographic sight with a magnifier or a LPVO with possibly a red dot or a Prism sight that has magnification with a red dot. Other advice with this on a LPVO if it second focal plane I would have a red dot if you need a clearer picture. If its first focal plane 1-4 or 1-6 you maybe able to skip on a red dot but if it 1-8 or 1-10 I would absolutely us a red dot now the best 1-10 for mw is the EOTech VUDU 1-10x28mm is amazing for a 1-10 without a red dot for me. However, I would say go with a red dot still. With the first rifle, if say you went say 14.5 with the weaponlight and an EOTech EXPS3-4 holographic sight with a G45 5x magnifier which I suggest for max flexibility. You should make a second GPR this I suggest a more precise set up. This rifle would be like a 16 in with a weaponlight and a LPVO 1-8 or 1-10 LPVO for me I like the Nightforce ATACR 1-8x24mm and the EOTech VUDU 1-10x28mm this rifle I would look at adding a lightweight bipod that Magpul makes. This rifle isn't a SPR it just a more precise and long range rifle. Also GPR should be a government/standard like Geissele or lightweight barrel. Remember the thinner the barrel the quicker it will heat up but also cool down. I prefer a lighterweight barrel for a few reasons but I'm not looking to stay in place and end up surrounded its shoot move shoot move. This maximizes you ability to create space and cool down your barrel. If you are applying more distance principles then it makes more sense to go more SPR type. A fighting rifle I love Geissele's barrel on the Super Duty and URG-I Upper. But the BCM lightweight barrel profile is my favorite on a GPR. Once you have 2 GPRs you can look at setting up a CQC SBR/Pistol. This can be broke into 5.5-10 inch .300 AAC/BLK and 10.3-12.5 5.56x45mm/.223 Rem guns. I think this best to go with like a 5.56x45mm/.223 Rem. You are still going to be buying/setting up more guns and ammo compatibility is best for most people with having bills, kids, vehicle, and a home to keep up. Your wife may want a nice vacation yearly. So I'm blessed to have income to buy whatever I want as long as it's legal. This helps but I am asked how to setup a rifle far too much. So long story short I would say 10.3/10.5 if you have a MK18 fix that you need to hit go for it. The 11.5 is better and you can be very flexible. I can run a Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x32 or a Trijicon ACOG TA110 3.5 with a RMR Type 2 1MOA red dot but you could go with an Aimpoint T2 or say a EOTech EXPS3-2 with G43 magnifier 3x and have a gun that is a home defense gun and truck gun. Now you have 3 solid rifles and you can stop here. However you can keep going like no setup a SPR or 7.62x51mm version like a DMR not that the term matters, but again most people will not have ton of excess funds. For ammo I suggest going with a heavy stainless steel barrel with a 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 twist in a 5.56x45mm gun and these guns will be expensive so you may want a EDC 300BLK pistol/SBR before you buy or build or setup a new rifle. I would then start buying things you may want besides just guns. Like a chest rig, or a plate carrier with plates or ballistic/bump helmet with NODs or thermal or suppressors. Im not saying everyone run out and buy L3 Harris GPNVG18 mounted a Team Wendy EXFIL Ballistic SL helmet and 3M Peltor headset and Baofeng AR-152 comms. That doesn't include building a basic prepper setup. With gas mask filters for long-term water supply, some medical supplies plus medicine, learning how to grow sustainable food or have the ability to raise farm animals for food and other resources. Like eggs, beef, chicken, pork, and hides. Then you will want some medical training if you don't have any. I suggest thinking everything out specifically on a pinned weld 13.7 or 14.5 in rifle. It isnt going to be easy to just change everything once it pinned and welded. Also on your guns keep commonality between parts you use. This allows for flexibility in parts breakage. Same with a pistol and I would use on my rifle the same red dot if I run one on my pistol. On pistols cool if you buy a pistol that say fits you perfect. You should look at the area around you what the police use and find that pistol or a pistol compatible with it. Like a say you like S&W M&P9 2.0 Compact but the police in your area and all the surrounding counties are using Glock 45 or 17 or 47. I would buy 1 of them or a 19 possibly a 23 with a 9mm conversion barrel and have it as well. My suggestion is always a IWI Zion Z-15 with a 16 inch barrel. The optic is a Primary Arms GLx 1-6x24mm FFP ACSS Griffin/Raptor on a Reptilia AUS 30mm mount with a Reptilia ROF90 MRDS piggyback for a Holosun HE509RD ACSS Vulcan reticle and a set of Magpul MBUS Pro offset 45-degree backup sights. The light is a Streamlight ProTac Rail Mount Long Gun weaponlight and pressure pad with mount. Sling Magpul MS4 sling with a MLOK QD mount any brand for sling for the rail. Then a LaRue Tactical MBT-2S trigger and then if you decide you was a specific suppressor you can switch out to which ever muzzle device you want. You will be around 10lbs and great gun for the money. Plus 15 Pmags and Bulk ammo with 1000+ rounds would be around $3691 plus tax and fees.

[@greencreekranch]

a lot of us live in somewhat wooded areas. If i had to fight around this area, long range shots would actually become more likely in the cities than out in the country side, where honestly, 50 meters is probably max you can see for the most part

[@Rudyelf1]

Unless you have to cross a danger area like a highway, or a field.

[@matthewriegner5180]

Here's what I'd argue. The necessary capabilities first and foremost. Then if you can save weight by using other non- proprietary equipment and without losing reliability or durability. If it breaks you'll need to fix it or find a replacement part. If it doesn't run reliably, why carry the weight in the first place. And if it weighs heavier, then it'll make anything else feel light. I dry fire with a 20" ar 10. Makes my 15s feel extremely light in comparison. Doesn't matter the configuration. Training also includes strength and endurance, not just shooting drills.

[@freneticfanatic]

Duty set up for LE patrol: 8lb 13oz BCM 14.5, medium profile barrel T2 on Geissele 1.93 with Eotech 3x mag, Cloud Rein 3, WPS sling, irons on risers HD setup 7 lb 2 oz BCM 14.5 lightweight barrel Holosun 407 on 1.93 with Streamlight RML2, WPS sling

[@Mygg_Jeager]

I said this before and I'll say it again, and I'll say it again in the future: It's not the weight that's the problem. It's where it's balanced. A 7 lb rifle with 6 of those pounds out forward past where your left hand rests on a handguard or a grip, is incredibly hard to hold up and at the ready for lengthy periods of time. Whereas a 10 lb rifle that's balanced between both hands or between the shooting hand and the shoulder, can be held up at the ready rather indefinitely.

[@GrimrDirge]

I dunno dude; 12, 16 hours on duty and I don't give a shit about balance, that sling digs in harder with every ounce.

[@billydanzz]

@@GrimrDirge Exactly.... Let these 'balance experts' try holding their empty hands/arms up for a mere 30 minutes and see how it feels .....

[@davidb9323]

@@GrimrDirgeDo you wear padded shoulder pads or padded sling like the Vickers ?

[@Dan-di9jd]

To shoot yes, but for 99% of its life it's probably going to be strapped around you. 7lbs, is 7lbs in that case and it gets HEAVY after carrying it all day. I think sling priority is important but also just not having to carry anything extra is more important. I remember the old style two piece pic rails were the super cool guys stuff. An armorer had it in and decided to put it on the rifle and it was instant regret for me. The polymer handguards not exactly super fancy or cool but the pic rails were noticeably heavy after carrying it around for 8+ hours.

[@Mygg_Jeager]

@@GrimrDirge I cared. If I was issued a 17 lbs SAW instead of an 8 lbs AR, I just carried 9 lbs less of something else.

[@armstrong2052]

I live in NW Montana and the 7-8k peaks within miles are formidable. I love sub 5lb. My dads 308 is 4.7lbs, I've been liking the ruger 16 in SFAR but plan on a pof rouge or a custom build in the next few years. 😅

[@therealrobinc]

Lesser weight is always preferable, unless you haven't served in the military and actually had to hump all that gear.

[@aribpm]

Best thing you can do is live with the gun and chest rig you will be using. If you don’t have access at work, do push-ups while away. Just carry it around the home and do dryfire drills in the living room a few hours a week. Get into firing position and hold them for prolonged periods. After a few days the gun becomes lighter and easier to maneuver. Made me completely rethink the crazy idea of carrying a scoped 14lbs M1A. If I get pissed just carrying it from the car to my range what makes me think I am going to walk 10 miles with it.

[@Thb1990]

I think what capabilities you have factor in, like I have nods so I’m going to have some form of a peq and suppressor on any gun I have. If you don’t have nods you don’t really need a peq or suppressor and can get away with just a flashlight/lpvo

[@arcblooper2699]

I think the tactical community as a whole really focuses too much on weight. I think in recent years I’ve seen an abuse of the phrase “ounces=pounds=pain”. Not to say it doesn’t have any truth to it, but I always interpreted it to mean “don’t pack a rain coat when going to the desert in the summer” or “don’t pack a stack of comic books just in case you have downtime” Not, “how many ounces is my charging handle?” It especially kills me when someone says something like the Sig 550 series or SCAR-L is “too heavy” simply because it’s heavier than an M4. The M4 is perhaps the lightest service rifle ever devised, of course anything compared to it is going to be heavy. I don’t think a weight difference between an M4 vs an AK is going to be the difference that makes or breaks strategy. At the end of the day it’s mainly a comfort based decision only tangentially related to combat efficacy.

[@HotepSaoirse]

I see the same thing in the hunting community which crosses over. I’m literally screaming in my head “JUST BUY THE RIFLE AND SHOOT WITH IT AND GO HIKING!!!! AND DONT FORGET THE CARDIO AND WEIGHTS!!!” And then someone gets a barely 6# rifle in a magnum or PRC cartridge and they complain about the recoil🤦🏾.

[@righteousone8454]

I had a Ruger MPR 18" in 556. That thing was so heavy. Because it had HBAR Cold Hammer Forged barrel that felt like a 16" with a heavy LPVO on. That was without scope. After setting it for long range, I could key hole at 120 yards in same dot with budget ammo. I miss that rifle.

[@kb24shortoreo21]

Weight distribution matters more. I was a MSO at Malmstrom and had m4 acog peq 240 and 203. 9lbs is standard for all my rifles now

[@StrangerOman]

Gotta say that I really missed Live 9-Hole Reviews Gun Talks. Hope to see more in the future. :)

[@mattshriner4897]

10lbs, to my mind, is a good threshold because of historic trends in infantry rifles trying to keep the weight under 10lbs while maintaining the desired capability and combat/marching load (thinking mostly about world war eras battlerifles, but my gut says earlier equipment wasn't so far outside that)

[@welderdude1]

I run an 11.5" base for my NV rig and with can and all of the stuff needed for NV shooting brings it to almost 12#. It shoots soft and is very accurate and reliable. I'm 235# sans kit so weight isn't much of an issue. I can still jog a 9min mile in full kit so I feel good enough.

[@dmitriiblohin2922]

Well, for some applications this way is even more artificial concept than an imaginary number of lbs. When you invent something near your workbench to demonstrate it to other enthusiasts its (theoretical) capabilities, it might be even more harmful in harsh reality. The weakest part of any system is it's operator. If you carry a rifle on the sling day by day on the long foot marches, some moment you might be too tired to use its capabilities (even tried successfully on the range). If you have to carry it in your hands (not because a lack of a sling, it's ridiculous for most cases), weight destroys your capabilities even faster (even if the rifle still has them, you don't). And if you try to carry it in a kind of low-ready or any similar position for some time, its weight (and wrong balance) will neutralize the systems capabilities really fast. You'll start to damn all those lights, lasers, gasblocks, fancy foregrips and then also scopes and stocks. Also I guess that most of your followers are not like 25 y.o. infantrymen of the professional military, their fitness is (by the best estimation) is like weekend "range warriors". So QD option is really important for the most accessories mentioned and some self-control for putting a removed things into the backpack instead throwing them into the bush. I stand with those guys who want it lighter and name some lbs limit. If the rifle is planned to be universal, general purpose etc., it's just better to go to the forests, hills, swamps and whatever natural landscape is close to your place - and find YOUR OWN limit in lbs. Limit for the weakest part of your system which is most likely your own body. And i've seen in USA kind of "pickup rifle" concept is really popular (and for that case all your ideas are reasonable). But when you really need a rifle, it's very probable that you won't have your truck or any opportunity to use any vehicle. I guess it's less problem to have a lightweight rifle in your truck then to carry an overweight rifle on foot.

[@boygonewhoopdataZZ]

My Rifle has an RC2, Vcog SCO and a FL5 with a 16" barrel all in a lightweight 10lbs loaded 😂

[@mobilegamersunite]

Lite carry easier Heavy shoots better 🎉🎉🎉 find your balance ✨️ based on your capabilities!

[@stug77]

No upper with a malfunction assist was made with weight in mind.

[@MatterMadeMoot]

Cope

[@dnaka2001]

I agree on more weight being helpful on a fixed, defense rifle. I have a Mk12'ish rifle using a Daniel Defense upper with the heavy S2W barrel. The weight keeps the rifle down and minimizes lateral and recoil movement. It is so easy to get .5 to .7 MOA groups with it with little effort.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

Yep. When behind the gun the heavy barrel keeps groups smaller and centered during strings of fire, and the added weight dampens the recoil to help keep sights in target. I have the same idea on my 16" rifle, its an HBAR getting a 2-10x

[@lurtiskoe]

do a reverse speedrun. start at the furthest cold bore and bring it in. for science.

[@jerryjuutalainen1783]

Stream started at like 3 in the morning for me but my example: My MR223A3 11'' heavy barrel (HK416A5) is 3.6 KG empty. Add a sigh, grip, light + loaded mag and you're over 4kg.

[@caseybrown5183]

About 11.5#, depending on balance. Any lighter than that and it’s hard to watch your hits from an AR-10. Handling starts to get obnoxious any heavier.

[@basrutten641]

All about the balance. An AUG easily outweighs most ARs but you can hold and fire it easily with one hand. An AR with a short heavy barrel can easily outweigh 16”+ barrels but you hardly notice because it balances so easily. I added a 10oz buffer and chose a heavier stock to balance out my 16” DPMS pattern LR308 It’s about 12 pounds with all attachments and full mag but it’s pretty balanced in my hands- points well and takes a lot of recoil out of the rifle

[@austinhall5933]

My car15 weighs 6lb 3oz with an acog on the carry handle, 7lb 8oz with an aimpont pro, streamlight flashlight, and a loaded 20 round magazine. Barrel profile barrel profile barrel profile.

[@userJohnSmith]

Had that same issue with my PSL. One shot and don't. Great cold bore rifle, good for hunting. Not much else.

[@InfamousTactical]

I live in NE Wisconsin. Live in suburbia but 20 mins from woodland. My do all GPR is a 16” 5.56 with a 1-8x28 and a white light. No idea on weight but only other accessories are Slate Black Ind. grip panels and an angle grip.

[@logicoverfeelz]

"What is Heavy" The fucking SIG Spear

[@spearofneptune]

The XM-7 is fully kitted out with the Vortex Optic, Supressor, Sling & a full Mag just over 6.5kg. Thats not heavy. My Service Rifle (STGW 90) was loaded without anything attached 4.4kg. If i would attach a modern Rail System, the XM7 Vortex Optic and a Supressor that Thing would way almost as much as the XM7 while being only in 5.56mm..

[@saccaed]

Sling weight is better to adjust to be less than 1:1 as weight added to gun. As a load bearing weight a sling adds to weight 1:1. As the gun is handled though, at least half a sling's weight is draped over the user and not adding to weight that would make a gun less handy. Kitted weight is why I assembled my own. Parallax free optic + Magnifier + Light w/sling ends up being about 1.5-2.0 lbs lighter than shown @1:04:00. In future when I install a suppressor it will come in probably ~1lb lighter than shown without suppressors. A pencil barrel, composite hand-guard, and composite stock/plastic WWSD stocked receiver is all that's needed to cut lbs off an AR without worry of reliability. For a lot of kit there are plenty of options for quality optics and mounted devices that weigh a lot less than they used to.

[@johncurtis5367]

Styer AUG a2 with 3 parts one a metal hammer cover , rat works metal trigger pack housing, spring connector to rear made the trigger 4lbs and felt the same as my competition glock very fast, forward rail lightweight for light, lasers and flat top optics. We replaced it all on friend class 3 AUG and it ran great making single fast and accurate and full auto close range. Bull pup hold ready all day comfortably. My AUG ran fast 5 shot cqb changing to steel 100,200,300 yards easy-going love that rifle big precision AR and AK74 14 Krebs is my favorite now but AUG was number one.

[@1boortzfan]

M1 Garand here.

[@gulkash1188]

Re: if no nods why not poly handguard? I'm running that exact setup right now. Crazy thing is, there are aluminum mlock rails that are actually lighter than the Magpul handguards.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

I've got a 16" middy retro CAR that I like to compare my modern kit to. Not that I'm trying to match the weight, but I'm making sure the added weight is justified, because if it's not why bother.

[@jakecheck3225]

I've got a wwsd lower and an H&R 604 upper. Full length capability and the gun comes in shy of 6 lbs unloaded. No optics or lights but boy does the thing handle well.

[@ycplum7062]

One pound of water is one pint, which is also 16 ounces. Therefore, one ounce by weight of water is one ounce by volume of water.

[@jdwar11]

Electric tape does wonders in a pinch. We taped lights to our handguards back in 03-05 Iraq. There were no mounts available to us or fielded at that point.

[@PH-hk8mb]

A lightweight handguard and a medium to pencil profile ar15 with constant taper style of barrel thats not front heavy like a Hanson etc makes the AR such well balanced those two components can make just about any of these builds shine.

[@rivercityracer3683]

For a basic daytime fighting rifle with a red dot: 11.5" to 14.5" barrel of your choice (I use criterion core but BCM lightweight profiles are solid for saving extra ounces) with an ESD sling, ALG Forged aluminum sling swivels, 18350 short body weapon light (rechargeable batteries) + ds00 tail cap (redundancy incase your wire or switch fails) & Unity hotbutton. For nighttime you might be limited to cr123's and a Surefire vampire light head, but you'd add an IR laser aiming device. Otherwise same setup. I prefer steel barrel nuts, a steel gas block and a stainless gas tube for a fighting rifle for consistent accuracy when hot/ keeping a tight gas seal due to similar thermal expansion properties with a steel barrel. So that is definitely where I don't like to sacrifice weight personally. Also tend to stick with BCM bolt carrier groups. I'll run aimpoint t2 + UNITY mount to have a ~6oz optic setup. The ALG sling swivels save a couple ounces as well. And Geissele SSA triggers, which are surprisingly light compared to mil spec but they use full power springs for reliable primer strikes.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

A lot of rails use aluminum barrel nuts, all of Giesseles rails do especially. The steel gas block is just a functional requirement as even titanium doesn't usually seal properly, and I almost cry when I see aluminum gas blocks. Thankfully I havent seen one for sale in a long time.

[@isaudy]

"Too heavy" is subjective and varies from person to person.

[@9HoleReviews]

Agree - that's why we took a poll and reviewed the results - that gives us a decent idea of what 'most' people perceive

[@FULLPOWERSSJALEX]

my galil ace gen 1 16 inch 5.56 R&L conversion is at about 10.4 pounds unloaded with optic, foregrip, laser/light combo fits in pretty good then with the 16 inch ar's.

[@heyhayhay247]

It's not hard to build a light GPR that's still fully capable; you just have to be deliberate with your choices from the start. My 16 inch weighs 8lb 1oz with a micro reddot, 3x magnifier, Modlight 18650, sling, BUIS, VFG, and empty mag. My identically built 11.5 weighs exactly the same with a can on it. I've got plenty of left over weight for an LPVO or LAM on either setup if I wanted.

[@weduhpeople8504]

Scar 17 is 7.9 lbs unloaded. 16 is 7.25 lbs. For most home defense an Aimpoint T2 and 3x magnifier is 🪶light weight and effective.

[@jakeleonhardt6330]

This isn’t talked about enough ….. in the marine corps infantry right now , we carry 19.5 pound M27s. That is with RCO(VCOG) Peq 16, knight armament suppressor, and fully loaded magazine. M (Heavy ) 7 ..trust me it wasn’t a good time , and they were practically muskets but they were usable. Still don’t understand them adopting something 7 pounds lighter then a 240 🤷‍♂️ we definitely miss the M249 for it’s role and the M27 sadly isn’t that…

[@treyjackson8508]

I live in area #9 my gpr is a POF rouge 5.9 naked. It’s right at 10lb 2oz with scope, sling, light, bipod and suppressor.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

Oh, QD is your friend. I have 1 bipod, its a magpu with an ARMS17 mount. Is it heavy? Yes, but its only there when I need it. My magnifier is QD. If one feels like a flash light isnt nessesary at least have one on a QD mount and keep it on you, that way you can save weight and also have a white light for when you need it _if_ you are adamant that you think you dont need it.

[@stug77]

An m91/30 weighs 8.8lbs. You would think something created today called a "carbine" should probably not weigh more than that.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

Only if one feels they should be compatible. A modern carbine is going to be semiautomatic with an optic, light, possibly a laser and suppressor. Sure, its not at light as a crude bolt action rifle, but thats because it's exponentially better for little to no weight difference.

[@stug77]

​@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballzmy point was the mosin, as most other infantry rifles at the time, was known as heavy and cumbersome. If we can't integrate a weedy little caliber and space age materials with some modern accoutrements without weighing more than the 5ft lead pipes of old then we're doing something wrong. Just because stuff isn't smaller and lighter yet doesn't mean we should just throw away all standards and accept bulk, which is what I took away from 9holes vid. We should, as a market, aggressively set weight limits on our guns and the crap we clamp to them.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

@@stug77 you already can. The WWSD rifle exists, but it lacks capability which is what one gains in exchange for weight. There is no free lunch, we accept a carbine thats the same weight as a Mosin because that carbine is light years ahead. You can get a 5 pound bolt action rifle if you to apples-to-apples against a bolt gun.

[@stug77]

​@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballzaccepting a carbine at 8.8lbs is my initial recommendation. Their 16" AR example is 10lbs with other platforms far exceeding that. That's unacceptable in my eyes for an infantry rifle (or militia), if you are building a sniper or an lmg that's different. There is free lunch, and we should be pushing the industry towards it. As an example, a 16" WWSD with carbon handguard, microprism, sling (their weight estimate), and PEQ-16 weighs just shy of 6.3lbs. That's every capability 9hole claims is required, not all of which are universally agreed upon. You want to add back up irons or a foregrip, sure, add about 1.3 oz for each, and grip tape weighs almost nothing. Would this produce the best rifle ever (is peq-16 even attainable)? No, but it should be the goal we push the tac industry towards. Instead of the other way around, rolling over and pretending a 10lb rifle makes sense. Imagine what guns would look like if we didn't demand night vision get smaller and lighter than pvs-2.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

@@stug77 the industry is already there. The fact that you can name the parts for a lightweight build instead of theorizing them makes this all a moot point. Anyone making what you consider a heavy carbine is choosing to.