What is Voltage Drop!? How to Limit Power Loss Through Your Cables!

[@jime9305]

Great video....fortunately I have a lifetime of experience in electronics and electrical engineering and I sometimes forget that everyone doesn't understand these basics when they became interested in off grid power and solar...it's nice to see someone with a great teaching ability put this info out and make it easily available.

[@Jasonoid]

Thank you Jim!

[@kevinholland4156]

Excellent video. The knowledge of wire size is so necessary when building a solar setup; also I might add proper fusing of your circuits is essential. This is one of the best and most informative videos you have made. Thank you for instructing the KZbin world.

[@Jasonoid]

Covering fuses would be an excellent topic. Since power stations have built in protection, I usually don't mention fuses much in my videos. For any DIY system it's very important! Thanks Kevin!

[@kevinholland4156]

@@Jasonoid When I think I might need a fuse or breaker; I add one.

[@johntate5284]

Just got in some 8 gauge 100 ft MC4 cables to run my 2 PV350's (in series) to my AC200MAX. About 30+ pounds of copper! Upgrading to fixed panels next year so the 8 gauge should be great when i put in 2KW of solar next year. The voltage drop is about 0.6 volts and the power loss is about 5.3 watts max for 100 feet, which is really good. Every week, your videos are very applicable to what i am current working on, so i'm looking forward to the next mind read!

[@Jasonoid]

8 awg!? You went with the good stuff! : ) :)

[@Mike_219]

Awesome video, Jason! This was probably much easier to digest for people than just reading or listening. Real world examples are always great. Speaking of voltage loss, I used one of your videos to chop the cigarette adapter off my fridge and replaced it with powerpole. Voltage loss decreased(!), along with being so much more secure

[@Jasonoid]

I should have mentioned that not only the wire can cause voltage drop but also JUNKY connectors like the 12v cig plug! haha Good work!

[@nevv8581]

Thanks for the info. Very useful. You always do a great job explaining and actually showing results. Keep up the great work!

[@Jasonoid]

Thanks Nev!

[@jayh9504]

Wow what a great post. This really is a great explanation of voltage drop and how much power is lost with cable. I love the access panel on the 4 Runner. As usual thanks for educating the masses.

[@Jasonoid]

Glad it was helpful, Jay :) I love these 'experimenting' videos!

[@Jim.D]

Thanks for the great video, it made me check my voltage at my 12v fridge and it was down to 12.2 v with a 18’ cable and a 15’ cable combined, removed the 15’ and now back to 12.9 v with a battery voltage of 13.4. Thanks!

[@Jasonoid]

Awesome! If you don't need the extra cable, remove it out :)

[@cali-electro-dad]

Good, clear explanation. I appreciate that you use real word examples. Also, graphs make this nerd's heart sing! 🤓❤️ 🎶

[@Jasonoid]

Glad it was helpful!

[@gumpster6]

Great demonstration of the effect of voltage drop. I have not come across any videos going into this level of detail..

[@Jasonoid]

I wanted to see how it works, I learned a lot working on this video!

[@Dhannibal01]

Great video, eye opener and informative for all us novice solarites.

[@AGilbert_81]

Great video full of information. Will def change my wire length from the fixed panel atop my truck to the pps that I leave inside to power my 12v fridge/freezer. It's 50' currently so I'll bring it down considerably.

[@matthewknight5641]

Glad I found your channel. I been messing with solar foe awhile now. I have a fully solar off grid camper with 2 inverters 2 charge controllers and 24 leaf modules in 24 volt configuration. You explain things clearly you are good at the videos and this is helpful to alot of people in this diy solar community I'm certain.

[@Jasonoid]

Thanks Matthew!

[@OnusBones]

BOING! @Askive Solar needs to see this! Thank you for this clear demonstration of some things I've tried to describe to people. Interesting results with the voltage drop in your Toyota. I use a power station in my Hyundai because the 12V outlets aren't live if the engine is off.

[@Jasonoid]

It was a fun video I've been working on a long time, I love seeing how things turn out with all the tests.

[@2point..0]

Nice wiring in your Truck!!!

[@Jasonoid]

Thanks 👍

[@Gwen3344]

Thanks!

[@andrewinaustintx]

Thanks for link to the calculator! Last year - I did my own install an approximate 16 foot of #10 gauge wiring run from my 175 watt solar panel to the charge controller in my slide-in truck camper. The calculator link shows the voltage drop to be about 2% - which is good to know. I believe that a RV industry install uses #12 gauge or more likely #16 gauge wire to support a bare minimal 100 watt solar panel.

[@Jasonoid]

2% isn't bad at all! I'm glad you planned ahead and went with 10awg!

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Jason, I’m really impressed with your power bank in the cargo area of your 4Runner! Our Ford CMax’s battery is located in the rear right below the cigarette adapter, so my compressor cooler has never thrown an error. As long as our Tesla Model 3 is awake the full voltage is available at the cigarette adapter and the car seems to always wake up if the 12 volt lead acid battery needs charging. New Teslas have a small lithium ion 12 volt battery, so I don’t know if there are any behavioral differences.

[@Jasonoid]

That's convenient that your battery is in the back of your CMax! No mods needed haha. It will be interesting to see how electric cars move forward with DC/AC output. I like the idea of having regulated outputs in the car, kinda like a HUGE power station.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

It’s definitely awesome!

[@Dougr214]

I wish you would have done a test with 10ga pv wire.

[@Jasonoid]

I only lost 30 watts over 200 ft with 12awg wire, should be less with 10awg. I can't test every scenario. Throw your numbers into the voltage drop calculate here: www.southwire.com/calculator-vdrop

[@DavidHalko]

Great video from the start to the end!

[@tylerf5223]

great information Jason! I was thinking of making a 50 foot extension cable for my solar panels so i can find the sun better camping in the woods, so now i will get some adapters to run in series to up the voltage and not have to get bigger wire.

[@Jasonoid]

Just make sure your power station can handle the input voltage of panels in series. This video describes how to verify that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/anuqaX-sf9-hgrs

[@tylerf5223]

Thanks again! im use a 30 amp MPPT charge controller hooked up to a set of 6 volt golfcart batteries.

[@Gwen3344]

Thank you, Jason. Once again you have helped me understand more about this very confusing subject. In truth, I'm going to have to watch this a few more times to fully grasp the concepts and pragmatics, but for sure I am beginning to understand. Yay! There are a few pieces of the puzzle that I am still trying to fit together. Can you answer for me please: 1a) Are portable solar panels like in the suitcase and bifold models wired in series or parallel, or does that depend on the manufacturer and/or other factors? 1b) How would I know how the panels are wired? 1c) How does series or parallel affect how well the panels perform in cloudy or shaded conditions? 1d) Is there something I can do / should do to improve the performance of my portable panel under cloudy skies? 2a) What is the typical gauge of the wire of portable panels? I assume a 200 watt panel would have a thicker gauge than a 100 watt panel? 2b) If I buy an extension cable, should it be the same gauge as the panel's cable? 2c) Is the gauge of the wire of potable panels a standard part of the specs? Thank you!

[@Jasonoid]

1a) Are portable solar panels like in the suitcase and bifold models wired in series or parallel, or does that depend on the manufacturer and/or other factors? Depends on the manufacturer, most I have seen are wired in parallel. 1b) How would I know how the panels are wired? If you shade 1 of the sections of your panel and you lose all your power, it's wired in series. If you shade 1 of the sections of your panel and you only lose 25% of your power (quadfold) it's wired in parallel. 1c) How does series or parallel affect how well the panels perform in cloudy or shaded conditions? No panel performs well in cloudy weather. If you have partial shading like a tree branch on one panel section, a parallel panel will get more power. Series panel will lose all power in partial shading. 1d) Is there something I can do / should do to improve the performance of my portable panel under cloudy skies? Try to angle the panel at the sun properly. Not much else. 2a) What is the typical gauge of the wire of portable panels? I assume a 200 watt panel would have a thicker gauge than a 100 watt panel? Cheap branded panels have 14awg-16awg wires included, more expensive panels will have 12awg wires included. 12awg and 10awg are sufficient. 2b) If I buy an extension cable, should it be the same gauge as the panel's cable? No, it doesn't have to match. You can mix and match cable gauge, just make sure you get 12awg or 10awg wire for the best performance. Do not purchase anything smaller diameter. 2c) Is the gauge of the wire of potable panels a standard part of the specs? Not really, it's based on the price and quality of the brand and what they chose to include with the panel. Go with a cheap panel and you'll get cheap cables.

[@Gwen3344]

@@Jasonoid Thanks for taking the time to respond, Jason, and for your thorough answers. Bit-by-bit I grasping this stuff! You are really doing a great service to us non-geeks. Much, much appreciated!

[@brucejohnston8758]

Jason, would there be less drop using 10 gauge wire?

[@Jasonoid]

Correct, 10awg wire has a larger diameter than 12awg wire. 10awg will have less voltage drop.

[@user--PM]

good to see this video, i hope it will be helpful to many. more voltage = less loss over distance with a lower awg wire, vs a lower voltage. when calculating what awg wire you need, you can find a good wire guage calculator online to help. you will need to know the voltage, amps, and the distance you want to run.

[@Jasonoid]

I mentioned a good voltage drop calculator in the video and linked it below in the video description, it's super useful!

[@-_-unseen-_-]

Looking at the WindyNation extension cables they do not increase the cable size for the longer cables. The 150' cable is 10 gauge as well as the 30' cable. Shouldn't the 150' cable at least be a size bigger?

[@Jasonoid]

All depends on the amperage, if you have 20 amps going through your cables over 150 feet I'd recommend 8awg cable. If you only have 15 or 10 amps, 10 awg is just fine.

[@keepsmiling1484]

Another great video, very well presented. Thanks for sharing, as I’ve learnt a great deal from your videos as I’ve started my solar journey!

[@stuartstuart866]

Jason, we have a 2018 4Runner. Did you route your 12 volt wire through the vehicle or under it? If under the vehicle were did you re-enter the wire? My Bluetti AC50S won’t properly charge off the factory outlet (the watts increase then suddenly drop and repeats this over and over) so I’d like to install another 12 volt outlet like you did with the thicker wire. Thanks

[@Jasonoid]

Routed through the firewall at an existing hole near the driver side steering wheel, then went under the floor door moldings to the back of the vehicle (wires are already passed through this area so theres plenty of room). Then used a fiberglass cable fishing rod to get it the last 5 feet to the rear cabin area. It wasn't too hard. Your model should be similar since they haven't changed much.

[@markbottoms64]

Excellent information and well presented!

[@baneverything5580]

Jason, what would be an acceptable battery monitor with shunt? Should I get this 37 dollar one for my 300ah battery (AiLi Voltmeter Ammeter Voltage Current Meter) or should I spend about 25 more for the (Renogy 500A Battery Monitor with Shunt)? The Renogy has low voltage alarm. Do you think the less expensive one is any good if that`s all I can get right now? I don`t want to hurt my battery by running it dead using my air conditioner or other higher loads. I hope to power my tiny Frigidaire 5000 BTU air conditioner from solar during the day and early evening this Spring and Summer and have power after any hurricanes.

[@Jasonoid]

I don't really have one to recommend right now. If I wanted to purchase a high quality one I'd probably go with the Victron Smart Shunt because the smart app connectivity and history tracking.

[@shelley131]

Great video. I like the fact that you do not assume that everyone understands electricity. Never wrong teaching the basics.

[@markbodine9257]

Great videos Jason. What recommendations do you have for charging additional batteries through DC plugs on a Bluetti AC200P? Any future videos with plans to improvise or improve on the Bluetti AC200P generators would be greatly appreciated!

[@Jasonoid]

To clarify, you mean charging a standalone 12v LFP battery off the 25amp DC output on the AC200P?

[@markbodine9257]

@@Jasonoid yes, what battery and cables would you recommend?

[@Jasonoid]

The output of the AC200P isn't meant to charge a battery, it just provides power so you'd need to find a small DC to DC charger designed for LFP use. 10awg wire is rated at 30amps.

[@markbodine9257]

@@Jasonoid Thank you, Jason. I guess the best option will be to set up a second solar array to charge a second battery that I can then plug into the AC200P at night to boost the system.

[@PAKOREGON]

Not sure this was mentioned in your video "Note that the total length of the circuit is the roundtrip distance from power source (usually the battery) to the product and back." (from the Blue Sea link).

[@Jasonoid]

From my testing, a 50 ft cable has the voltage drop of a 50 ft cable, not a 100 ft cable. Maybe the voltage drop calculator already applies the "round trip" distance. I wouldn't worry about making things more complicated.

[@PAKOREGON]

@@JasonoidGo back to your Blue Sea link and read what they have to say. It is important to not confuse distance between the battery and the load with the total circuit length.

[@Jasonoid]

Thanks Phil!

[@tomhouck3476]

Nice video and great links! Part of the decision is cost of different gauge wire vs voltage drop, so the links are good for that. One thing though, “timesing” isn’t a thing.

[@Jasonoid]

Where is the "timesing" typo?

[@tomhouck3476]

@@Jasonoid Sorry, it’s not a typo, but in the video. Multiplying would be the better word.

[@Jasonoid]

@@tomhouck3476 Thanks for the feedback.

[@putteslaintxtbks5166]

I use to have a set of jumper cables that were of a large wire size and good clamps and thou they were longer then most at 20 foot long, I was often able to jump start cars and trucks from my small 1981 Honda civic that others had failed to start with smaller cables in cold winter weather of upper midwest. Some had been trying for around an hour and I don't remember it ever taking over ten minites. I made the mistake of telling an ex brother-in-law how well they worked and he took them from me twice and I got them back, but the last time they went missing, never saw them again, but he was on the top of the list. Someday I may make a set from some good welding wire, useing the clamps from the set I always keep in my truck.

[@Jasonoid]

Big ole gauge jumpers are hard to find these days at a good price!

[@michelleb3096]

hi Jason I was wondering and cant get a proper answer from professionals about whether my solar panels, which are 200 each, should be wired in a series or parallel to go into my Bluetti generator.. which surge power is 2000 watts. What you you recommend?

[@Jasonoid]

I'd recommend watching my PowerStation 101 solar panel video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/anuqaX-sf9-hgrs This video shows you how to look at your solar panel specifications, and then the power station owners manual to setup a system that won't damage the power station. I give a Bluetti AC200 power station example at the end using larger panels as you mentioned.

[@titusm9837]

I have somehow the same issue with the boat engine. The battery shows 12.8v and the engine controller 11.8v. The cable is not that long 2m(I will shorten it) but I believe in my case the issue is the battery connector too. The battery connector does not have sufficient surface for a good power transfer so this might be another issue excepting the cables (if it gets warm than it is definitely the issue).

[@Jasonoid]

Yes, battery terminals are very important to be sized properly. They can get very hot if they are too small. Wire gauge also plays a large role in voltage drop.

[@jaysonstebbins2539]

Got 1200 watts of solar gonna be running at 95 volts and about 14 amps. 25 feet of 10awg, then 50 feet of 12 awg then to the 10 feet of the 14 gauge of xt60 adapter wire. What are your thoughts?

[@Jasonoid]

You'll see a bit of voltage drop through that 14awg section of cable. Wouldn't be horrible in the 12 / 10 awg wiring. I'd suggest upgrading that 14 awg section to something better. You can always see how it performs and if the wire gets hot. If it doesx swap it out.

[@jaysonstebbins2539]

@@Jasonoid thanks Jason! I'm using a ecoflow delta max 2000 and it has a 100v input and 13amp max that ecoflow says it can go over a bit so I'm going to be running 3 string of 4x100 panels. The 14 gauge is the 10 foot of mc4 to xt60 that plugs in the back. I've thought about finding and ordering a thicker xt60 to mc4 adapter. At least to 12 Guage. I literally chose this unit watching your video. So thank you for your ecoflow vs. Ac200max video! I have 2 600 watt arrays on 2x 40 amp controllers and 300ah of gel all renogy so this is my "to go,backup, and toy" really lol I have a portable ac/heatpump that I would like to power with it during the day and it draws 1100 watts when running so the closer to 1200 watts the better. Thanks alot for replying!

[@jaysonstebbins2539]

@@Jasonoid btw you were so right about the AC output standy draw. I've left it on overnight and didn't even draw 1%. This ecoflow delta max 2000 is outstanding! And btw for the record if you turn off the unit or have the unit timeout turned on. When the sun comes up in the morning it will in fact turn the unit back on and start charging!

[@drs3055]

Excellent video. New to your channel! You showed the voltage from your operating vehicle. How do I check that on mine? Thx

[@Jasonoid]

You can use a voltmeter and measure the battery voltage from the terminals and then you can try to measure closer to your load and see what the voltage drop is. Most 12v wiring in a vehicle is not adequate. They cut corners to save some money.

[@rcguymike]

I should get my D2Max Tuesday. Almost didn't due to the 60V limit but I think I can make it work. The Expandable batteries strike out too as no separate input or output, but it's nice the blade and Wave2 batteries are compatible with the XT150 ports

[@philwill1]

Very good explanation.

[@mycharmedunicorn8715]

Jason, can you help me please? I ordered a Bluetti EB70S during cyber Monday. It was delivered Saturday by FedEx. I have not opened it because it was delivered to my garage door upside down. The box was clearly marked this side up and that side was sitting on the ground. Do you think my Bluetti solar generator will be OK? Is it OK for me to open it or should I take it back to FedEx and exchange it? I emailed Bluetti on Saturday and Monday and today and I have not gotten any kind of a response.

[@Jasonoid]

There won't be a problem with the EB70S being delivered upside down. You should be completely fine.

[@chamberlin1000]

I have a 48VDC setup. What guage wire should I use for the batteries and inverter? The inverter i got came with thin wires compared to a 12VDC inverter

[@Jasonoid]

What size of inverter are you running? What 48v battery do you have?

[@najemnik76]

as always great video, thank you :) just 1 question, (forgive my English:) in your calculations for example you say 10ft of a cable - does it mean 10ft of a single wire cable or 10ft of 2 wired cable (which in total is 2 x 10ft = 20ft)? All the best from cloudy Poland

[@Jasonoid]

The testing in the video was on 12-2 landscape wire and included the entire 'loop' of power.

[@najemnik76]

@@Jasonoid thanks, clear :) ,12 I get means 12 gauge - how to convert that to the metric mm?

[@Jasonoid]

12awg wire is 2.052mm

[@najemnik76]

@@Jasonoid thank you

[@fredthompson2501]

Great video one thing add 8 gage ground from battery to a spot on your fire wall Toyota don't have very good ground on them in general

[@Jasonoid]

Good tip! Appreciate it Fred.

[@AncientHermit]

Interesting stuff👍 Is that fridge able to make ice by any chance ❓Be well😉

[@Jasonoid]

Yeah, ICECO fridges are insulated enough to create ice. I freeze water bottles all the time.

[@TripleOg997]

Off topic but do you know where I can find a (PD/ Usb-C to Usb-c) output only cable or adapter ) ? I have powerstation with a 100w bi- directional port but only accepts Input charge whenever I plug in powerbanks that need charging. I did everything , from flipping the cable and no luck .

[@Jasonoid]

What power station are you trying to use? You can try this 12v insert, I'm not sure how it works since I haven't purchased it myself: amzn.to/3uNt6Ys

[@Electronzap]

Good tips.

[@KeyBored101]

Great video, so much great info

[@Jasonoid]

Glad it was helpful!

[@mannyfragoza9652]

does a charge controller boost voltage ?

[@Jasonoid]

Some can boost the voltage, it's depends on the model.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Excellent information! Have you done a video showing the affects of leaving your wire coiled up as opposed to stretching it out? Does the coil heat up or are their magnetic fields like in an electromagnetic? Thank you so much 😊

[@Jasonoid]

A coiled up wire will definitely share it's heat with other wire touching it, so it does get warmer. If you have any coiled up wire I'd recommend cutting it down to the correct size. If you design your system properly you shouldn't have much heat in the first place so probably not much of an issue.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

@@Jasonoid Thank you so much for this explanation, Jason!

[@OUFan2]

Very good video.

[@Whitepinoy]

So 10 awg wire at 30' is ok ?

[@Jasonoid]

Yes

[@KatyInNH]

Great Video!

[@Jasonoid]

Thanks Katy!

[@sqservicersllc2552]

Great information

[@Jasonoid]

Thanks, I tried to keep it simple :)

[@SetitesTechAdventures]

Vehicles are getting better about wiring, but it still is inadequate. I assume your compressor would start up if you had the engine on because of the extra 1.6V from the alternator. This is the reason that I like to keep a small powerstation in the back of my Sorento though, so I can let the car charge the power station and let my fridge run on it. Though I can't even get power to that rear cigarette if the key isn't turned on. I just wish I could find a power station that could be triggered to turn on when it gets power. I'd like to have a small station that could run things like a cellphone booster that I don't have to turn on. Then again, the cold is what killed my Milins electronics (the battery itself is fine) I think so this might be a bad idea.

[@Jasonoid]

It's almost better that the key turns off the 12v port when the engine isn't running so then the power station won't drop down your starter battery so low the engine won't start. A couple of my power stations turn on with input voltage (well the displays do, not the AC inverter or DC output). I'm guessing if you connected a 12v LFP battery in the back and had a small DC to DC charger, it would charge the battery while driving and the 'output' would always be on since it's just a battery.

[@SetitesTechAdventures]

Nevermind I'm being stupid. Even if you started the car, got it running, then turned the car off it would fail as soon as the compressor cycled.

[@Jasonoid]

@@SetitesTechAdventures it depends on the cars wiring actually, start up current for the compressor pulls way more power on these fridges vs the running current. (80-90 watts start up VS 35 watts running)

[@jayduran3660]

I just encountered an E1 error on my portable electric cooler last week! 🤦🏻‍♂️I thought the cooler was broken. Now I know why. It uses a janky cig connector. I’ll change to a barrel connector to connect to my power station!

[@matthewknight5641]

With your alternator sitting at that low a voltage it's at the bottom end of what's acceptable. 14.3 up to 15.5 is alot better. I'd about bet that alternator is on its last leg

[@GMPLDR]

Hey i am having a bit of problem,, i hope someone can advice.. I have a solar system that use to work great when i just set up,, 1x 450w 14amp solar panel 2.5mm wire from panel to 100 amp cheap charge control Then from charge control to battery\ to 1000w 12v inverter.. Works great.. But decide to upgrade,, add 1 more same spec pannel and 1 more same spec battery.. And recently addded a 2000w inverter.. Went away for awhile then come back and i have been noticing i am not getting the voltage i use to get.. Ex when the sun is out my charge control will read anywhere between 13-14.4v for my 12 v system. But i have been notice the lasts days for the most part of the day its mostly at 12.6. I check pannels and wires no damage,, i clean dem, multimeter at solar panel wires reads 30v. When unplug from charge control,, when connect reads about 13v With good sunlight.. What is weird is in early morning or close to dawn when sun light is not brightest it reads 14+ volt.. But during the day when the sun is blasting only 12.6 for the entire day So i am wondering whats wrong

[@Jasonoid]

Do you have any fuses in the setup? If so check them to see if they are blown. It seems power is not getting through to your system from your panels. Also, the cheap charge controller could be dead. Cheap ones don't last long.

[@igorkvachun3572]

Yes🔋⚡💡👍

[@Flowing23]

👍👍

[@jimdaly5077]

Thank you for doing this video, lots of questions answered ( but will probably think of a few mor🤔) all the best.👍🐝🌞

[@Jasonoid]

Glad it was helpful!

[@corneliuconstantinpatrichi5647]

Un pret la el va rog

[@Jasonoid]

This information is priceless