How Far Can You Run Solar Cables | Avoiding Line losses

[@everydaysolar]

Calculate Solar Cost For Your Home - geni.us/solar_reviews Ecoflow Delta Pro: geni.us/smzZiC 8 AWG Wire (100 feet) - geni.us/BtgTNT 10 AWG Wire (100 feet) - geni.us/qAgIb 12 AWG Wire (100 feet) - geni.us/Haist Power Analyzer - Power Analyzer - geni.us/s86J Line Loss Calculator: geni.us/Hhxpk DISCLAIMER: This video and description contain affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, I’ll receive a small commission.

[@Gladishification]

You can just put the station beside the panels and run the extensions through the yard. That way you can look at both meters in real time simultaneously. You having the station in the front yard or beside the panels doesnt matter as the loss in the length of the cable is what your calculating.

[@maybee7126]

It matters greatly because of weather, temperature and access.

[@skeller61]

Great tip! Kind of like a wormhole for power cable testing, if power cables were the fabric of the universe.

[@cowboyrolo7892]

I used to latency testing for High Availability Telco applications, we had a single rack with 250Km of fiber optical cable, it was really interesting to see both ends from the same location.

[@koruki]

Only problem is sometimes I don’t want the station sitting outside as it can be stolen. Panels are cheap and bulky to steal

[@NickWindham]

This is what I was thinking. Just run one big loop across the hottest ground, concrete, and back to the other side of the walking path from the panels.

[@SarahStuff-p5u]

Willing to bet you still will be getting a bill monthly for the line charges even if you draw nothing from the Grid....but overall nice setup. Quite a few forget them line charges when calc ROI from solar, when deciding on solar keep the entire system cost in mind and what the solar might actually reduce. Net metering 1:1 sounds like there will be no charge, but you are charged for transmission fees, need to include those as well....

[@Sylvan_dB]

In series where you doubled the voltage so half the current carries the same wattage, not only do you save because lower current means lower loss, but you also save because the loss is a smaller portion of that higher voltage. In other words, at 36 volt you were getting approximately 10% loss (for ease of calculation) or 3.6v loss. If you cut the amperage in half, you will lose only1.8v. If you were still at 36 volt that would be 5%, but as you are now at 72 volt that is 2.5%. It's all math, and what that calculator is really doing for you is computing the resistance of the gauge and length of wire you specify. You can look up resistance per foot and do all the math yourself. Don't forget that the distance is double - the circuit includes the positive and negative wires. amps = volts / resistance or volts = amps X resistance also power = volts X amps I like to target no more than 3% loss but 5% is probably okay. 10% is a LOT of loss!

[@everydaysolar]

Great info and thanks for all the feedback. 🙌

[@garyenwards1608]

Is 10% dangerous?

[@Sylvan_dB]

@@garyenwards1608 The loss is not safe or dangerous. It is safe if you size your wires for the max current they will carry and size your fuse or breaker to protect the wire. Loss is about efficiency. I like to target no more than 3% loss but 5% is probably okay. 10% is a lot of loss. You get to decide if that much loss is acceptable for you.

[@garyenwards1608]

@@Sylvan_dB Thank you for the feedback

[@Ulbre]

Great info. This makes a difference as my preferred solar array, on top of a new carport, is a detached one around 60 feet (maybe 100 cable feet to inverter) from my house and I was wondering what losses I would have. This video shows me it will be quite okay. Thanks.

[@everydaysolar]

Awesome, happy the video helps and best of luck on the project!

[@hu5116]

Good vid! There is another consideration which few talk about. It will depend on your load, and I do not know what these charges controllers in this regard. But maximum power will only be transferred if the source impedance matches the load impedance. In this case, that would be the source resistance, and the load resistance. Just divide the voltage that you get at the load from your solar installation divided by the current that you are getting, and that is the source resistance of your solar panels plus the wire. Ideally, you want your load to be this same resistance for maximum power transfer. Those harbor freight panels have about three ohms resistance each. So, depending on how you wire them, and how much line wire length you have, you’re going to have a different amount of resistance. For a solar water heater element the resistance is also the specifications voltage divided by the specifications current, which is usually 7 to 12 ohms. So make your solar panel arrangement plus the wire resistance, the same as this and you can optimally heat water directly. If you have a charge controller, then I’m not sure what kind of load of presents to the solar panel. One would hope that it is adaptive and changes, its input resistance, according to what the panels are providing. But cheaper charge converters may not be so smart.

[@AudioScienceReview]

This is DC. We only use impedance matching for RF to avoid reflections. Highest efficiency in this case is achieved with lowest source resistance. If you insert any resistance in the form of wire or otherwise, it will create power losses itself. Such increase in resistance is increasing the source impedance which in turn lowers efficiency (best case efficiency is with Rl = 0).

[@tatan321]

Most of your loss here is because you’re keeping your voltage artificially low. If you put all the panels in series, and had voltage around 72v, your loss rate drops to under 4%. If you add more panels in series and get that voltage even higher, your loss rate will be even lower.

[@tedrymarcsuk3518]

Very useful information. Thanks for running and explaining this test!

[@everydaysolar]

You bet, happy to help 🙌

[@htoddgriffin4787]

If all four panels were in series you'd be at 72V, so why not since your controller can take 100V? I add in 50ft extensions with my camping setup. I can usually find a good spot for the panels within 50ft, but I can go 150ft if needed. I've been using 8ga copper clad aluminum. It lays flat reducing a tripping hazard, and the loss at 150ft is almost identical as 10ga copper, at less than half the price. Pretty soon they'll be making wedding rings out of copper. Thank your EV driving friends.

[@everydaysolar]

For sure, I agree that Series should be default just as long as you are still in the working range of the charge controller. 👍

[@gtsteel]

The 100V limit is for peak voltage (cold open-circuit), which can be quite a bit more than nominal voltage. 72V nominal can peak to 160V which will fry the controller. For a 100V controller, it's best to stick to 36V nominal, as even 48V can peak slightly above 100V.

[@davidanderson2436]

Thanks for the video, been following your work on both channels, very helpful and useful information - would really like to see how well any of those ecoflow's do in your outdoor shed during an IL Winter!

[@toddbissell4312]

I buried my 10gaug 30feet 1600 watts inside a rubber hose. I then put water in side. Do you think this helped with lowering the heat from the current. I had a old hose and thought if anything it couldn't hurt but help.

[@CHB-Tuber]

Good video - 2 questions please … I noticed the MC4 connector going into the meter from the panels ….. I believe you mentioned a thunderbolt connector on the panels - is there a “stock connector” for thunderbolt to MC4? … how did you do the connection on the panel side .. clip and replace with MC4 or install thunderbolt connector on the panel side of the extension wire? Second question .. the series hookup to the EcoFlow … 77v and 72v shows on the meter… the input rating for EcoFlow is at 60v. I believe if amps are exceeded, EcoFlow just clips and allows the max of 15amos… But isn’t 60v the max before breaker kicks in? Could you please provide a bit of detail on this ..

[@christinekretsch6399]

With the 185 feet of cable, was it daisy chained or a straight run?

[@manabouthome]

The NEC recommends 2%-3% voltage drop in your average power circuits. (That's actually a recommendation. Not a requirement.) But if you lose 3% of a 5000 watt array, that's 150 Watts! It's like wasting a 150 Watt pv module. How much does that cost? ...over time? It makes good long term sense to design for less than 1% voltage drop.

[@chippyjohn1]

You could just use a dc power supply to show an accurate difference over distance and cable diameter.

[@thechiefsway2618]

You had mentioned that the cable in the description can be direct bury. How deep does it need to be buried?

[@everydaysolar]

In my area we need to bury at a depth of 24 inches for unprotected (not in conduit) direct burial cables.

[@MegaCyrik]

Thanks for another interesting video. May i suggest you take a look at the pzem watt meter models. The one called pzem015 can handle up to 200vdc and usually comes in 50, 100, 200 or 300a models. The price range is about 10$ to 20$ for the 50a-300a. The other pzem models may only support 100v so make sure you look at the correct version. This is just a suggestion to the obstacle about max 100vdc you faced. I dont know if they are available in your place.

[@JenkinsUSA]

I’ve watched a few of your videos, informative. I have a question,… how did you calibrate the two power meters? I was looking at doing something similar. Keep up the good work 😊

[@everydaysolar]

I ran 1 test where I had identical setups in the same location and compared the Wh across each of the power analyzers over the exact same time duration. The error was less than 1% but that is the only test I ran to understand the error for these units. I am looking to up my data collection/ power analyzer game soon 👍

[@JenkinsUSA]

@@everydaysolar Nice, carry on, looking forward.

[@kennikuhlmann-clark9860]

Power loss is proportional to the square of the current.... Assuming resistance remains the same, half the current (at twice the voltage), means 1/4 the power loss.... I mean, this is the reason for high tension power transmission over long distances, isn't it?

[@everydaysolar]

It is, I actually was just thinking through transmission lines yesterday and should have used that example in the video. Thanks for the feedback!

[@lexicase8805]

For data collection, i wonder if the "mushi meter" used regularly by youtuber Lock your hubs 4WDing would suit. It seems to have various attachments for air pressure, current, voltage, temperature, ive honestly been thinking it might be good to have myself, its super versatile

[@everydaysolar]

That does look pretty cool! Thanks so much for the recommendation 🙌

[@NormBlow]

I have 18 harbor freight 100 watt 12 volt panels running my house.... 6 panels are wired in parallel that are directly connected to my water heater, and twelve panels are wired in four parallel strings of three that go to my mppt charge controller to charge my battery bank that runs my house. I have 21 135 amp hour batteries, but i am intending to add 4 more (540 more amp-hours) Most everything in my house runs on 12vdc... Ihave never been without power, but there is a thing..... I use my washer and dryer on sunny days, when the batteries are already charged (usually by 11:00 am) I use an RV 12vdc water pump. Anything that generates heat uses propane (except the hot water heater, wich uses it's own 600 watts of pv panels)

[@blizardbill]

sorry for the stupit question , but those step down cheal hardware that will drop the volt from 70v to lets say 40v , cant be used in order to save wire money and also give 40v at the power station ??

[@MTNPANTS]

Great explanation and example. This helped me decide how to configure my eco flow set up.

[@montanaplease]

I’m only doing four 100 watt panels (2 in series) (2 in series) then parallel. My run is only 25 ft to my charge controller and two 100ah 12 volt batteries and I’m going 8 gauge just to be on the safe side

[@everydaysolar]

Should be plenty and also provide you some room to grow in the future if you would like 👍

[@PWoods-cd6tk]

Great video. I have 60 ft 10 gauge runs at my place, and the only real losses I have seen are from my PWM charge controllers once you go over 40 ft. Cool chair. What is it?

[@mindbender50]

This is why power lines are at 1000's or millions of volts to reduce the cost in wire (lower current higher voltage). Also at that high a voltage they can run for miles and lose very little energy.. The only problems with such long runs is they swing in the wind and can carry quite the static voltage charge even when powered down.. So when you buy an inverter always look for one that has a higher voltage ... That will save you on copper size and run (copper at 12volts has to be very thick) but at 500v which is the sweet spot for inverters right now the current is so low you can get away with smaller gauge wire ..(10-14 depending on length)..

[@samueladitya1729]

for longer lines, can I use aluminium cable instead? It will be cheaper, and since it will be fixed the stiffness is no problem. 4 awg aluminium is cheaper than 10 awg copper while having better conductivity.

[@shubinternet]

There are different values for stranded versus solid wire, and copper over aluminum versus aluminum versus pure copper. I hope the calculator can handle all that!

[@everydaysolar]

The calculator in this video only handles Copper and Aluminum. I am starting to work on a new calculator and can build in some additional capabilities. Thanks for the feedback!

[@chicomc96]

is the line loss less with 8awg?

[@everydaysolar]

Yepper, cost goes up but that calculator can help you make a decision for your specific installation.

[@acessford101]

Please tell me you have upgraded your heatpump withgoing solar. HUGE benefit!

[@to93om]

Why dont you just lay your cable in a U shape mate?

[@robleto4542]

Great vid & Interesting! Dumb ques? Connecting Watt meter is source side panels and load side power station? Thanks

[@everydaysolar]

Yep, that is correct. The power station will be your load.

[@MrAgility888]

Have you done a video on energy losses if a panel is facing east/west vs south?

[@everydaysolar]

Nope, That one is on the list and I would like to test all 4 directions at once 👍 Thanks for the feedback!

[@darreneaton3046]

Loss occurs every day based on sun availability regardless of theoretical or calculated load, although efficiency matters

[@TomCee53]

What I found interesting was reading a higher voltage at the Ecoflow than at the panels. That’s some good wire 😂.

[@EverydayHomeRepairs]

That just the variability between walking from 1 end to another especially under cloudy conditions. One of the factors on why I like using the energy created during the test runs.

[@DaveSquibbSr]

An MPPT charge controller going to a battery will show you your volts, amps and watts, you would be able to put more panels in this series

[@DaveSquibbSr]

The power company always cheats you on grid tie solar panels, you will always end up owing them something.

[@cryptickcryptick2241]

While line loss is important it needs to be balanced with solar panel cost, the cost of not having panels, the cost of cords, the amount of additional sunlight one might have in different locations. Electrical engineers like the losses to be as low as possible (understandable), but we should also have panels out producing power, not in a garage. Used solar panels are cheap to buy. Power companies use high voltage AC for long distance power transmission. Standard residential wiring is listed to handle up to 600 volts. One really needs to consider if it is worth it to just slap up a couple of more panels and then not talk about the line loss.

[@donbrloks3959]

Very informative video. 60-65% roi on your roof panels sounds too good to be true. You must have a hellacious power bill and net metering. Let us know how that works out. In FL we don’t have net metering and roi is about 3 years before roof replacement.

[@Paul-hj1vt]

I've run 800 feet DC solar cable in large industrial size ground mounts

[@occamraiser]

This video should be called 'how long is a piece of string' - the answer is AS FAR AS YOU WANT - providing you're willing to buy thick enough cable. So the real answer is 'The shorter the better'.

[@katkatthecat]

Shorter is better!

[@gregpochet4812]

A great video. I hope you get your smart meter switched over soon. My first, full electric bill, my solar panels produced 87% of my usage.

[@everydaysolar]

I need to take advantage of this late summer / early fall sun! 🙌

[@JCGible]

What percentage will i lose over a 30' cables.

[@everydaysolar]

Shouldn't be much but depends on your setup. You can just plug in your numbers here to get the exact answer www.everydaysolar.com/calculators/line-loss/

[@francisdebriey3609]

Increase cable section : use 6mm2 instead of 4mm2. Maximize Voltage instead of Current, therefore in series instead of parallel. That's what electricity producers do to transmit electrical power over big distances : up to 1 million Volts !

[@brentftaylor]

Nice. I was just thinking about this

[@everydaysolar]

Let us know what else you might be thinking about. Always looking for interesting topics that will help viewers.

[@brentftaylor]

@@everydaysolar I ran into an issue when trying to charge my EcoFlow delta pro with my ford lightning. Every time I tried I got a power default in the truck. I scoured the net and couldn’t find a video anywhere. Turns out both have a floating ground and the fix was to make an extension cord with two prongs and no ground.

[@BobAltshuler]

I just purchased an Ecoflow pro and an echoflow 400 watt panel. What guage wire cable should I use?? I need to buy a 25ft cable, just not sure of the guage. I’m leaning toward 10 guage.

[@garyenwards1608]

10

[@chimneyrock123]

great job on the video

[@everydaysolar]

Thanks so much!

[@macgyvor1]

Voltage drop is different for AC and DC.

[@zoe..d]

You say you want to invest in the metering side with graphing etc??? Victron smart shunt! You can connect by bluetooth and see it all one one screen on your phone / tablet in realtime instead of waiting for that LCD to cycle.

[@flolou8496]

I have a dumb newbie question if anyone else is capable of helping out: It has to do with a video I saw where there were no solar cables being shown int the video, and I don't understand how the power was being run to the battery's in the basement ?

At longer distances you are far better off doing your DC to AC transformation at the panels.. The wire gage and line losses are far and away less using AC in the wires..

[@samueladitya1729]

DC actually more efficient if you use higher voltage, if you use 48V hybrid inverter it usually has a PV operating voltage up to 450V, and DC means no skin effect and you are using 100% of the cable although it's insignificant.

@@samueladitya1729 The higher the DC voltage the higher the chance of a sustained arc.. My panels in series parallel run at about 120vdc and the total wire resistance loss is under 1% to the charge controllers.. I do not have one of those all in one boxes and my charge controllers have a 150vdc max with 80 amp output max.. So many types and so many choices lets you choose what you feel is best..

[@ilawn]

Can you use a lower gauge cable to reduce loss?

[@everydaysolar]

Sure can 👍

[@NRC073]

We value your interesting videos very informative, but... start using a standalone MPPT to test with, not just those battery packs things that aren't a true way to test pv and charging

[@everydaysolar]

Thanks for the feedback. I am curious to get your take on why a stand-alone MPPT would be better than the MPPT integrated charge controller in the Delta Pro? The nice thing for the Delta Pro is I have 2 which provide a good apples to apples comparison of what the panels are producing across 2 different setups.

[@NRC073]

@@everydaysolar delta pro is technically aren't "solar". They are the new kids on the block trying to get there slice of the pie, we value your testing on these "unknown" equipments. Maybe try adding in a seperate MPPT still charging the same Delta pro battery directly. Also bigger MPPT gives you more ways to connect different PV voltage to aswell. That could be a PWM and not a MPPT we would know

[@everydaysolar]

@@NRC073 thanks for the feedback. I will continue to expand and I am also interested in doing multiple DIY setups where I select the charge controller, battery, and inverter. Currently just have a few different Renogy PWM and MPPT charge controllers. What brand do you prefer?

[@NRC073]

@@everydaysolar look at brand: morningstar very good long established company, victron ect,

[@Electronzap]

Good info.

[@everydaysolar]

Thanks!

[@scooter6334]

Talking about solar panel wire. It really disappoints me that I haven’t found a red wire that don’t bleach out in time from being exposed to the sun 😖. Nice video…

[@ko5t1k]

Thank you so much. You actually answered questions I searched for ❤

[@samuelfox8126]

The longer the line is the important it is to run higher volts and lower amps.

[@donalain69]

just run the cable in a circle.

[@drs3055]

Excellent research! Where is it best to place charge controller - close to battery or close to panels?

[@floatingsidewalk1]

All solar industry like: Let me give you a little bit of information... And, send you to a site that will have completely uninformed sales person calling your phone the next day - predatory.

[@DanBurgaud]

You could do a "theoretical test", by using a DC Voltage Regulator / Power Supply, push 10A through the wire and see how much voltage drop. This test will be independent of sun's variable sunlight.

[@GillLi-g1y]

Hi This is Gill from Anker SOLIX. We have been following your channel for a while and have to say the quality of your videos is truly impressive. We've recently launched a new product, the Anker SOLIX C1000 Portable Power Station, and we believe it could be a great fit for your channel. We'd be thrilled if you'd consider reviewing it. Looking forward to possibly collaborating with you! Best, Gill from Anker Solix.

[@Brockleejohnson]

I hope to get offers like this one day 😂💪🏾

[@pocketchange1951]

👍👌❤️🇨🇦, gr8 info

[@everydaysolar]

Thanks 👍

[@jounikyy7715]

10 gauge is 6mm2

[@shubinternet]

Interesting color changes between some of the video edits!

[@everydaysolar]

Really just the sun coming in and out. That day was a good mix of sun and clouds.

[@NickShoust]

I would love if we could submit our situation and have you walk through how to plan and evaluate a setup. Not product specific but the planning and decision making process

[@CitizenOfBabylon]

Get a better power station.... or use better charge controller and feed directly.

[@EverydayHomeRepairs]

What is you favorite power station brand?

[@zoomzoom4157]

You def won't get 50% your money back in a few years ... this is very very misleading

[@Шедуле]

My DIY project in progress. Total price for my system 13000W 120/240V inverter ~12000Watt solar pannels , 19200Wh battery capacity, including wiring, mount system etc ~10000$. Most components bought on Amazon. For now I connected just half panels and batteries. Already saving half energy ~3,5$ each day. Whole system cut my energy consumption to Zero. In my area 280 sunny days it is 9 months. In three cloudy/rainy days I save just about 1/3. It means I have 10 months no energy consumption. It means 7$x30x10=2100$ savings per year. (10000$ - 30% tax credits)/2100= 3.3 in years money back for whole solar system.

[@hanklinch2833]

Junk panels

[@freddurstedgebono6029]

Only reason to do Parallel is when you have the short connection. Parallel helps separate panel strings so blockages aren’t bringing the whole system down. However, power optimizers on each panel could help that

[@whattheschmidt]

Or if the voltage becomes too high. I have an array with 2 strings, going into an SMA inverter. One string is 12 panels, the other 10, so around 500V for each of those. It does make the amp stay low - like 12amp or less for both of those strings. My other array is Enphase micros though, only 8 panels, 2.5kW. Only 2kW of inverters on this 8 panel array, so max 8.3amps on the two hots! All low amp really, makes it super easy for sure!

[@andrewford80]

Or when you have panels that are different specs. ie VOC