What J. Krishnamurti meant by 'Observer is the Observed'? A commentary on pure state of witnessing

[@viameditation]

Please watch my other video on J. Krishnamurti kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpqugKyantl6sNk

[@donaldhoover8095]

Well said, thank you. What came to mind as I listened was a quote i once heard. "What you are looking for is what is looking"."

[@viameditation]

It is by Rumi ...what you look for is looking for you

[@Lifelover-zj3oo]

For me, this saying/quote points to the unity of the observer and the observed. They are ultimately one, when the illusory nature of self is realized, therefore melted away.

[@smiledefiesgravity]

By observing love, the observer is love. To find love, one must become love. To know love, the observer must know what love is not. Love is not the word. To know the word, it must be experienced. I observe love in these words. All who read will experience unto their experience. Thought, sensation, and frequency you are now and have always been with the internal chemical capability, which shines, radiates to existence. You are of the sun. You are of the elements. Love exists within you. You are love. When you leave the body as you observe, you exist.

[@viameditation]

That's poetic..reminded of Michaelangelo' quote "At a touch of love, every one becomes a poet"

[@kirkfred2284]

You’re really saying something here , i just can’t get it totally. If I did then the whole thing would open up, I’m sure..❤

[@PC-ds6zk]

Similar to, the mind is both the desire and the thing being desired

[@rafequetbava]

There are so many unknown enlighted people around the world. That is what all these comments prove. Awesome. Hats off to all commenters and their indepth knowledge in the subject.

[@viameditation]

You make a very good point. I also felt exactly the same sentiments ....

[@ifyougrewupinbrightsgrove4840]

Enlighten- to give knowledge or understanding to. All beings are born of, and in the light. All become aware of their self illumination through knowledge and understanding. Some become aware younger, or older. As did those who came before, and will again after.

[@rajkapoor9964]

First if all I want to thank you for making this video, I appreciate that you are making efforts to guide many people in best way and as well as exploring yourself deeply. As you mentioned the level 2 where there is no flow of thought in deep meditation, in a way you are right but there is more to it actually...in this deep state thoughts or feelings or emotions don't stop actually, the difference is that person is not anymore identified with them...to stop thoughts, emotions or feelings completely would make this world a very empty place, thoughts have a role in this world that helps in moving forward, everything that is given to us like thoughts and emotions have a role to play in human life, the difference is how to use them as most people are identified with them not knowing truly who they are and this is one of the major causes of suffering...in this deep state of meditation, the thoughts flow but the person is just looking at them without any attachment...this happens after understanding that attachment arises from need of security of thought...let me put it this way - waves of ocean are always moving but deep sea remains still and calm even though on surface waves crash with one another...so thoughts same way like waves don't stop in such deep state of meditation, but they are seen without attachment...in this way the observer is observed and one is free

[@shrilaxmienterprises1267]

Upanishads are real treasure for us, and Raja yoga and Jnana yoga, are also helpful to understand JK, also you explained it well sir

[@viameditation]

Hi Raj. You make an interesting point. I agree that is the right way of meditating ....being non- identified is a flowering of meditation and it is a very evolved stage. However, there are states like Satori or Samadhi when there is truly a blank state and there is "no content whatsoever" to be deidentify with

[@viameditation]

@@shrilaxmienterprises1267 Upanishads are a gift to mankind

[@onlythebestthoughts3338]

​@@viameditation JK is not expressed better while using the term "T O I O". You project the sensation of being in a state , on to dimension of TIME. The two events are not happening parallely, there is a difference of a time, in the unit of fraction or lesser. 1) The state of being/ sensing in one state 2) the act of observing the self in previous time frame. These two are independent events happened in different time frames. What you are observing is the past state (which is just happened in your previous time frame but not present.

[@viameditation]

@@onlythebestthoughts3338 Just being.... is enough. I like the way you put it

[@freetibet1000]

Thank you! Very well put! 🙏 It is important to know that there’s also no duality between these two states. State no 2 is often called the Ultimate Truth or reality. State no 1 is often called Relative Truth and is said to be contained within or not separate from Absolute Truth. In Buddhist language the ultimate state is also called Dharmatha (the sphere in which everything is contained). This indicates that enlightenment is not a “product” of certain practice but the Natural State that is always there. The only difference between an enlightened mind and an ordinary mind of confusion is the mind of enlightenment knows and observes the ultimate nature at all times. The confused mind is obscured and does not yet apprehend it own natural state. Enlightenment does not mean a mind of passivity but a mind that knows the true nature of awareness and all phenomena that appears. When that state is realized all obstacles, limitations, biased opinions etc are dissolved.

[@viameditation]

Thanks for your comment - its a very good commentary

[@viameditation]

I read your comment again - its beautful. The whole relative world is contained with the absolute. Everthingness is a part of nothingness

[@freetibet1000]

@@viameditation❤

[@edaerkol7841]

​@@freetibet1000 Everything is you

[@humbledlovingforgivenesshe3114]

I THANK YOU AND APPRECIATE YOU FOR ACHIEVING KRISHNAMURTHY'S DISCOVERY TEACHINGS

[@viameditation]

Thanks for your gracious comment

[@dylanthomas6717]

Very clear and helpful! Namaste!

[@viameditation]

Hi Dylan .... Thanks for the gracious comment

[@mulugund]

Nice and clear explanation. Thanks for sharing.

[@viameditation]

Thanks for your kind comment

[@Apex1008]

This is the best summary of the concept. Thanks.

[@viameditation]

Thanks a lot for your gracious comment

[@edaerkol7841]

It is like when we dream at night. You re not watching the dream,there is not a " you" looking at the dream but the experiencer and the dream as one. You become the dream.

[@viameditation]

@@edaerkol7841 While this is true generally but there intense states of consciousness where you can actually see the dream happening ... it's a magical state. When ever I reach that the dream breaks but it's an intense experience of awareness

[@edaerkol7841]

@@viameditation Hi. Do you mean you see the dream happening with your mind aware that you re yourself in the 3D let's say. Is this lucid dreaming? I ve never experienced that, in my dreams l was always in the dream with the dream.

[@viameditation]

@@edaerkol7841 Yes, I have experienced a total separation from the dream. I have become the observer of the dream happening and sometimes I am aware that it is a dream (it does not happen everyday)... however the moment that awareness comes in, the dream breaks. Unlike some others who channelize the dream into a direction which in my case just breaks off

[@rao18tmr]

well-explained brother... I was searching for an explanation and yours was very simple yet profound.... Thank you

[@viameditation]

Thank you for the kind words

[@FunnyMan-ez9vq]

You cannot operate without thought and to demand the end of conflict creates conflict

[@ishwarchatterjee]

never watched a video .. where this statement was so clearly and simply described.. thank you

[@viameditation]

Thanks for your kind comment

[@ishwarchatterjee]

@@viameditation i have a question.. which is the central thing... the all pervasive which is inside and outside.. centred in the heart.. or the witness or the bliss(boom, gone, sweetness explosion)

[@viameditation]

@@ishwarchatterjee something can be "somewhere" only nothingness can be everywhere..that's what Buddha said. That thing is "nirguna brahamana" which is umanifesfed and is source of the entire universe

[@ishwarchatterjee]

@@viameditation thank you for replying. one more question.. that nothing is the all pervading then!! is PRANA a synonym for the all pervading!

[@spiritualiq]

Wow... very well explained namaste

[@viameditation]

Thanks for your gracious response

[@FlyOnTheMoon]

Thank you.

[@viameditation]

Thank you too

[@aditia1979]

Nicely put… Observer is the Observed. It’s actually a fact… from a macro perspective too!! Interesting

[@viameditation]

Very true. 8 billion people/ 8 billion observations

[@DharmeshVyasUSA]

Very decent and short explanation. Thank you.

[@viameditation]

Thank you Dharmesh for kind words

[@johnstewart7025]

I was reading about the American philosopher William James and his doctrine of pragmatism. He noted how our perceptions are colored by our habits, attitudes, training and concerns. And, so he advised us to turn our attention to how these qualities of ourselves formed our truth or what we believe. Obviously, this is a dualistic concept -- there is an observer observing the contents of his own mind, but not so much the outside world.

[@viameditation]

Its a good perspective. Like many philosphers have said that we are born as Tabula Rasa (or a blank CD) but we acquire beliefs etc as grow. However that part is unavoidable and has utlity to be in sync with the world around us. Therefore spiritual practice lies in differentiating between "essence" and "utility"

[@wulf67]

@@viameditation I wouldn't say that we're born as tabula rasa though. We are conditioned in our lives by our direct experiences and by our culture, but we have also been conditioned genetically through natural selection and evolution. The capacity for savage violence and cognitively biased groupthink which enabled our ancestors to survive the last several millions years is fundamentally rooted in our neural network, our endocrine system, and our emotional responses to stimuli. This conditioning was also passed on to us at birth. It's what some call karma or others might call "original sin."

[@viameditation]

@@wulf67 I tend to agree with you. I have also pondered on these lines ..... you have some more details on this topic

[@RaushanKumar-sd5qn]

Wow great explaination

[@viameditation]

Thanks Raushan

[@edaerkol7841]

In other words, there is not a seperate " you" and a world " you" are looking at. You are everything. There re no thoughts apart from you you re the thoughts, where thoughts come from...

[@viameditation]

Thoughts fundamentally come from memory (which is the sum total of our past)

[@Living_universal]

What I am is where you’re looking from. But because you look for me it appears as though I’m lost but I can never be found. Who ever looks for me is a stranger and will suffer in the world where good and evil exist. But until one knows me and surrender without choice they will experience death after the body.

[@DanFelsMusic]

Thank you very much for this clarification!

[@viameditation]

Hi Dan, thank you for the gracious comment

[@bh_486]

There is NOTHING you can do. It is when you GIVE UP TRYING that what remains is the SURPRISE that giving up on something, actually gives you what you were looking for.

[@viameditation]

So true and very well put.. .. as Kodo Sawaki said "Zen is good nothing"

[@parsakhajehnajafi]

Thank you🙏🥹🥰

[@viameditation]

Thanks for your comment

[@CraigAnderson-h2h]

No separation, the division we make is the illusion, there is only observing. K said it but the Upanishads beat him to it by 5000 years!

[@viameditation]

Timeless wisdom stays eternal- no one beats anyone in my view

[@skip741x3]

The Observer is just an illusion ...It is also just a thought amidst the other thoughts that come and go...There has never truly been seperateness except as a play of illusion

[@viameditation]

I beg to differ ... Observer is not a thought. He is the one that can watch the thought

[@DeshrajSingh-re1sx]

I agree with commenter that observer too is thought. Observer appears and disappears with the observed . When silence takes over there is no observer .

[@marinejulien5949]

Quite agree that the observer is only an illusion, a thought among many others appearing and disappearing, but such a persistant one that it's hard for many to see it and it's difficult to share with them.

[@sanekabc]

When the observer is the observed there is no observer. That is the final stage.

[@viameditation]

True, but that stage is the flowering of meditation or self observation

[@WriteChords]

Thanks 🙏

[@viameditation]

Thank you

[@maringantikrishnamohan6975]

He (JK) suggesting you to observe the observer, source or the fountain head .Once you achieve that there is a sea change and paradigm shift!

[@Absence-wq5xl]

Wherever you look, it is your own face. What you see in anyone is your essence.

[@viameditation]

Like they say "world is a mirror"

[@nexstory]

Another interpretation is that the observer (awareness) and the observed (the field of awareness) are not one (the same) and not two (different). Still, to observe deeply, both the question and the questioner disappear. However, when one returns to a cognitive state, one sees the hypnosis of the dualistic state, and it becomes painfully clear that all is not right with one's world (the field of awareness) and one can retreat as Arjuna sought to do, or attempt to correct it if at all possible. My take on K's teachings is that though truth is a pathless path, it still requires a spark and then a form. One cannot experience the grandeur of a symphony, if there was no practice/discipline, instruments, a concert hall etc. Non-dualistic thinking, if misunderstood, is a form of condoned schizophrenia where the individual slips into a cave and after a period of time, has sensory withdrawal experiences that when he leaves, gets garlanded and within the generalized hypnosis is thought to be holy and wise. One fellow, here in the US, had a deep depression, had a cathartic experience, wrote a book about it and, with the proceeds, goes about selling real estate in the now. Sadly, there are all too many folks wanting to buy a piece of the present that, in book or lecture form, he and his staff are eager to sell. An academic and/or therapeutic impulse to meditation is not meditation at all, but rather an imagined get out of jail card. A child runs into the street. A mother or caring stranger instinctively runs to save him. That is non duality. A more refined form of non-duality is practice, sangha and dharma, not as a philosophy, but as a way of life for real. None of our present day guru/influencers have a clue as to what I mean. The myth of individualism is a perfect fit for non-dualistic misunderstanding.

[@viameditation]

beautifully put

[@dhammashetty]

Even at the level of duality , we can intuit that observer is the observed .... What i know about myself at present is bodymind, which is as we know mind( energy) matter ( energy) , so when the mind ( energy) is observing the sensations ( matter which is energy or breath which is also energy or thoughts which is also energy) , it simply energy as observing faculty obsrving itself ( energy) as matter ( body) facultyb

[@viameditation]

Intuit yes .... it is very sincere comment ...are you a mediator? I want to know

[@dhammashetty]

@@viameditation yes sir, am practicing vippassana meditation since last 27 years ( sayagi u ba kin, goenkaji tradition) , now its more of ' knowing' state than ' doing'/ practicing state of the impersonal / impermanent nature bodymind( mind/matter) phenomenon, just be there, without wanting or need for something more to happen in the next moment 🌹peace 🙌

[@viameditation]

@@dhammashetty practice is enough / rest all happens on its owb

[@alejandrosaez1772]

In meditation there are no concepts of an observer and the observed. That is the underlying reality. The "problem" with any teaching is that the mind will try to do something with it, that is the obscuration

[@viameditation]

True. The problem rises with the use of“words”

[@bestscenesever1347]

To simply put it, there is nothing to seek because that which is to be sought is that. One can understand this only when one finds this themselves. No other way. Example: it's like this simple and funny example. I'm moving in a circle searching for me(let's say in the physical world,to let us better understand). I walk and walk in a circle unable to find myself. All of a sudden it hit me like wait a minute!! i want to find myself and I'm the one searching. I'm already found as it was me searching and i stopped searching as I'm here and now ready to experience). It's a ahaa movement. If we find it by ourselves then every form of seeking stops. I think I somehow made it more simple to understand with an example. If not excuse me.😅😅

[@viameditation]

Thanks for sharing your example ..... It is correct but only a few can attain to that level of realization

[@FreundderElben]

WOW! That hit me on a very deep level! Thank you so much! 🙏🙏☺️💜🖖

[@viameditation]

@@FreundderElben Thanks for the reply. This comment chain so has been very deep

[@bestscenesever1347]

@@FreundderElben glad if it helped you🙂🙂. That's a wonderful thing to know for oneself. It completely changes our perspective of life.

[@marinejulien5949]

Very good and speaking example indeed.

[@billytdakid]

Until we consider our thoghts something different than us there will be inner conflict. What we observe whether we accept it or not is actually ourself. When one see that the division between self and the stream of thoughts is illusive - the inner conflict fades away. Acctually what he see is that there is no difference between the observer and the observed. You can see the same pattern in the dreams while we sleep. Actually it's the same process of creation and observation of thoughts but to a greater extent.

[@viameditation]

Shunryu Suzuki use to say "When you sit in Zazen, keep the front door and back door open. Let the thoughts in and let them go, just dont serve them tea or coffee"

[@sivareddy4937]

JK said “truth is a path less land, “ But the statements such as “ Observer is the Observed” and “observe things without being observer” follow Sankhya and Nagarjuna’s middle path. In both of these , there is neither subjective reality nor objective reality. So there is neither subject nor object. In quantum mechanics also Schrödinger’s cat reveals that there is neither subject nor object; only witness is there. In Kashmir Shivam also, subjective reality and objective reality are absent. This principle was also utilised in Gita. Krishna and Arjuna (subject and object) do not converse; It is the witness Sanjaya who speaks. Sanjaya might have been introduced for this purpose only to support Sankhya philosophy. There are several examples in Upanishads also where observer is the observed- eg., two birds in Mandukya and Mundaka upanishads.

[@d.y.8276]

And the double split experiment. The observer changes the observed

[@viameditation]

All that changes is illusion .... the observed is the unchanging reality

[@santelang]

What you seeking, is seeking you!_ Rumi In the beginning seeker is seer, after wisdom 'seer turned into object to be seen'!. Seer loses his individuality. Freedom from all illusion of 'me and mine'!

[@viameditation]

Beautifully put

[@adamgerman2017]

As you present it, first level is where the Observer observes objects, such as thoughts, while second level when thoughts are totally absent in mediative quietude, and the Observer observes only itself, thus "the Observer is the Observed". However, could there be another level of meaning, where EVEN AS thoughts/feelings and perceptions appear, they are seen as "not different" from the Observer? In his Collected Works, Jiddu Krishnamurti says: "The ‘I’, the thinker, the observer, watches his opposing and conflicting thoughts-feelings as though he were not part of them, as though he were above and beyond them, controlling, guiding, shaping. But is not the ‘I’, the thinker, also these conflicts? Has he not created them? Whatever the level, is the thinker separate from his thoughts?" This question by the Master himself seems to point to a slightly different possibility - not of Observer observing itself only thanks to ABSENCE, but rather by virtue of thoughts-feelings arising from it and THUS being NOT SEPARATE. Another quote of J.K: "Awareness is the complete and unconditional surrender to what is, without rationalization, without the division of the observer and the observed." and even more explicitly in response to a question on Observer and Observed, J.K. said: "The observer and the observed are one; the thinker and his thoughts are one. To experience the thinker and his thought as one is very arduous, for the thinker is ever taking shelter behind his thought; he separates himself from his thoughts to safeguard himself, to give himself continuity, permanency." This seems to point to a deeper meaning of non-sepsarateness, beyond the state of introspective self-observation in stillness and absence of any thought activity during samadhi. To conclude, there is a further food for thought in this quote by J.Krishnamurti, raising question-marks and even showing the whole thing from a different angle: "If you observe closely, putting aside all the acquisitive knowledge of what others have said, however great, you will perceive that the observer is the observed, that there is only thought. There is no thinker apart from the thought. However wisely, deeply, and extensively he may separate himself, build a wall between himself and his thought, he is still within the field of thought." All the above quotes are verifiable and can be looked up in "The Collected Works 1933-67"

[@viameditation]

Observer is always distant from the thoughts ..... Observer is rooted in consciousness

[@camneocare]

There can never be a full recollection when the observer merges with the observed. It happens while driving a car. The observer never sees everything and everyone in terms of bias. That’s why, one doesn’t remember the travel details.

[@gshamsharma9069]

The Observer is in the role of Observed for Pure Witnessing Consciousness...🙏😊🪷....

[@bandaraela4101]

But JK never accept Mediatation for achieving this levels , I think its tricky what he really mean

[@viameditation]

JK advocates "no method". .... That's mahanudra. But is everyone ready and evolved for no method?

[@hectorjr4385]

Indeed those levels are not according to K. explanation. There is no method for self-realisation. All methods belong to the self. By the way, the author of this video might be an Osho follower, therefore he is interpreting K. words according to his own conditioning.

[@amrit_one]

Well said . But there is Level 3 also in more deep, in that there is " neither the observer nor the observed ". just empty space . The space around or outside your physical head and the space within your head becomes ONE. Thank you.

[@viameditation]

True...... agree. That's when you are in the great void where Observer, observed and observation get merged and nullified

[@onlythebestthoughts3338]

​@@viameditation My friend, it is more than mad to have level 3. It that a transient state or permanent state. You cannot demonstrate state of the nullified.

[@viameditation]

@@onlythebestthoughts3338 I think level 3 is a flowering and no flower lasts for ever. A person has to come back to the phenomenon. Try reading "10 Bulls of Zen" - offers interesting insight into this subject

[@onlythebestthoughts3338]

@@viameditation Don't read someone. Just explore and experience on your own. Who is the person who is sensing that level 3? Again an observer is required. If all are (observer, object and observation) becomes one, who is the fellow sensing that state? Do you bring another to sense that state? Having all three as void is illogical and you cannot demonstrate or experience? If so, we are just aiming for nothing.

[@viameditation]

@@onlythebestthoughts3338 I agree with you. We are just sharing perspectives. The level 3 cannot be put in words

[@malabuha]

I can only ever look at consciousness, obseever and observed are thr same phenomenon. So, if you want to know god, look around and behold. This is it

[@viameditation]

Consciousness is the thread ….. It is the eye of the eye

[@malabuha]

​@@viameditationthank you, it's true, many times we have to be politically correct and carefully convey what the nature of being is. People try to disidentify from thought, unaware of it's value. One only needs to ask themselves one of the two. Where am i, or who am i. Then "the eyes" will continue to see, but will only see itself.. Then duality becomes nonsensical

[@viameditation]

@@malabuha very well said. I often say in my classes...to close the eyes and ask them " who is seeing the darkness" , that is pure being and consciousness

[@malabuha]

​@@viameditationoh it's a good one, who is seeing the darkness... It's a great pointer. I actually wanted to say the same when I said we are only ever looking at the pure being itself. I had a game of finding color. I would think of a color and then let my eyes find it. One day i said, now find consciousness. My eyes scanned the room and never stopped, as if there's no consciousness present. It was a fluke moment that i actually realised that every object, color is consciousness, at that time I said, my own consciousness. Just like fish can't see water, the ocean in which it lives, so the mind cant see that which has many faces. The one who sees darkness. That one has turned its eyes on itself. These eyes can only ever see that one. Consciousness. Later on i dived into understanding its nature. I guess, one only has to ask and it'll be given.. The funny thing is truth, reality is always staring at us in our faces. And why we can't grasp it, i don't know. It's why these pointers like yours has the power to bring one there, to seeing who one is

[@gabrielr8642]

oh lord watch this in your daily life - we think anger or violence or fear or our thoughts as something different to us. That is why we end up controlling it by suppression or justification through knowledge. There is a part of you which says do this and dont do that. That thought which is dictating what you should be doing is no different from the other thought that got you here. So we end up using a thought to control another thought. This control comes through the division created by thought as the observer and the observed. If you understand this let me know.

[@viameditation]

True, Gurdjieff called it a "lack of unity" in a man ... each fragments wants something else

[@gabrielr8642]

@@viameditation whats the point of all this knowledge from so many different sources? when it is the very knowledge that sets the trap. Or do we do this just because its easier to follow and repeat and live in this intellectual haze than to become aware of our conditioned self at the most deepest possible level?

[@viameditation]

@@gabrielr8642 I love youjr reply and agree. But in reality all spoken and written word falsify the deepest understanding. All talk and different sources is an attempt for people to try different methods and choose what suits best to their personality

[@gabrielr8642]

@@viameditation Oh yes choose whats convenient just like how we interpret what we read and hear according to our convenience. Knowledge leads to duality - It always tells you what you should be or shouldnt be whether it is the knowledge of books or knowledge born out of your own experience. When you have one thought correcting another thought there is not only control which has nothing to do with awareness and there is also time as past continuing into present. Therefore it is only partial perception which divides people. You might have heard the story of blindfolded men trying to identify an elephant but each of them have their own idea of what it is. This partial perception is extremely dangerous as it divides people. This is what is happening to all of us. Only when there is perception without thought there is neither time nor control. This perception is whole, complete without division without involvement of time as past. To find out what is perception without thought I feel we must first begin with what is close to us - that is when we have the first thought or anger or whatever it is dont try to correct it or change it using another thought instead simply observe it. Stay with it in patience. In this there is great honesty that is if you are jealous, you admit you are jealous - you dont try to change it. Like K points out let it flower and wither away. Which means to perceive the fact and its only the understanding of the fact that sets you free without the effort of control or time as knowledge.

[@viameditation]

@@gabrielr8642 beautifully written. Written and spoken words will always be rooted in duality. Let's shake hands in utter stillness

[@jidrit999]

Observer is image. Observed is reaction to one of his constituent image. Soil from both Arising is memory. Am i right ?

[@viameditation]

True ... it's comes from memory. But the 'state of no mind' comes from beyond

[@jidrit999]

@@viameditation atman

[@EinsteinDirac1]

There is lot of noise around this famous quote by JK. This point he wanted audience to understand was underlying conflict observer and observed creat. Bottomline is once there is no conflict there is no thought and observer is non-existent. This was JK's way to underscore why we encounter conflict in first place.

[@viameditation]

Conflicts creates thoughts and thoughts also create conflicts...... they are all coming from memory and conditioning. When Observer, observed and observation fall into the void, then you are free

[@rafequetbava]

@@viameditation tremendously thought provoking.

[@viameditation]

@@rafequetbava Thanks for your gracious comment. Please check out other videos when you get time

[@viameditation]

@@rafequetbava Thanks for your gracious comment. Please check out other videos when you get time

[@bethiniaravind1236]

In going deep into meditation, what about the time factor that JK talks about?

[@viameditation]

You are going deeper is a good news. JK said " To realize that which is eternal, time must stop". All beginnings have end and time fits into that. Hence when transitory vanishes, eternal only remains

[@davidallison5529]

I believe Krishnamutri said, wherever there is 'movement' (of mind) there is time. So, conversely, time does not pass (exist) when there is no thought/feeling ... if I understood him correctly. He often used the word movement. For what we call stillness, there can be no movement. Consciousness is stillness. The mind, for most of us, is in an almost constant flux. To be aware of awareness, we first still the mind.

[@viameditation]

@@davidallison5529 well articulated

[@davidallison5529]

@@viameditation Thank you. It may have taken me a few decades to integrate what Krishnamurti was saying but he's certainly worth reading. ❤️

[@viameditation]

@@davidallison5529 Agree …. Wisdom is worth any wait

[@hrishikeshsingh9384]

You’re wrong here. Observer is the past/knowledge which is thought , Through that it is observing something. So he’s not observing, he’s projecting his past to the present . So the thing which is being observed and the one who is observing are thoughts . So the observer is observed. So there should be only observation in observing , not a observer.

[@viameditation]

Hi Hrishikesh, thanks for your comment.. I said the same thing in level 1 - where past knowledge reflects in the observation. if I am observing a mango tree then knowledge comes from past (Memory). But there is level 3 where there is no traffic of thoughts and there is immensity of sacredness, just observer observes itself. The epitome of "being"

[@basoya07]

I would question if there's another level. When one says that now the observer is being observed, then too the imaginary observer of the observer is present. K is saying that what is considered as the observed and what is the observer are both created by the thought. "I am observing a tree." - is just a thought suggesting that a separate entity exists that is the I which is observing a separate object which is a tree. In fact, the only real 'thing' is reality. If it wasn't, the I and the tree both aren't. Hence, I (the observer) and the tree (the observed) seemingly separate is actually one reality. There's a video where K investigates and suggests that reality and truth are indeed one. Saying the witness is present implies a separate witness doing the observing.

[@basoya07]

Level 1 - I am observing a tree. Level 2 - I can see the observer observing. Level 3 - Both are the same.

[@Jasveeer]

@@basoya07 let me try to explain you brother, as per me K did not said observer is the observed in terms of tree or a hill,etc, for that there is sepration, but even when we watch that also, most of the time our past memory take charge and we dont see with more attention, just because in our mind this thought is operating that yes I have seen it in past in video or in a image or some where like that, then comes the main part when any defilement arise in mind like anger, hate, jelausy etc, in that time also our mind very quickly respond that it happenned earlery also and we by our thought try to suppress it or runing away from it, or drink alchohol or pray do this kind of thing, which is the part where obesrver is the the observed that means the same phynomina which is thought which is the creater of these defilement is trying to stop it by doing the same thing to the defilment that means by aring hate towards the defilment, so now lets come to the part of solution, its t seems imposible for many comman brain to end defilment without pushing it but this is the pont where we will have to understand that obsrver is the observed, that means the thought which is trying to push or suppress, express or roll in the defilment is the creater hence doing these will only increase the defilment not end it, now comes the main part whenever any defilment arise in the mind just observe, but the question could be obsever what ?, I cant use my thought to observe because it is the creater of defilment which means observer is observer, so the answer is WITHOUT TRYING TO RUNAWAY OR SUPPRESS OR DO DIFFERENT THING, OBSERVER THE SENSATION, SENSATION ON THE BODY WHICH IS THE PART OF MIND ALSO AND THE MISSING LINK, THE THOUGHT CONSTENTLY TAKE THE HELP OF SENSATION AND MAKE CRAVING, AVERSATION, HATE, JEALULSY AND DIFFERENT KIND OF DEFILEMENT, ( WATCH K's VIDEOS WHICH ON SANSATION ), WHEN YOU START OBSERVING SENSATION WHEN ANY DEFILMENT ARISE, YOU ARE NOT RUNNING AWAY FROM DEFILEMENT ITS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SAME COIN, YOU WILL SEE 1ST THE SENSATION WILL INCREASE (CANT SAY FOR HOW LONG, DEPEND ON THE ACCUMULATION THERE IS ) BUT EVENTUALLY IT WILL END AND THIS KIND OF ENDING IS COMPLETE ENDING OF DEFILEMENT. WHICH MEANS THE DEFILMENT WHICH YOU WERE CARRING FROM SO LONG, CAME TO END( BECAUSE YOU DID NOT GAVE IT SUSTANING ANERGY WHICH IS THOUGHT OR YOU CAN SAY INTELECT ), BUT ITS IS NOT EASY ALTHOUGH THERE IS NO MATHOD IN IT, ITS JUST OBSERVING, BUT THIS IS A COURAGEOUS THING TO DO BECAUSE IT BECOMES OVERPOWERED SO QUICKLY, BECAUSE OF OLD HABBIT PATTERN IT BECOMES HARD TO JUST OBSERVER, ( BUT YOU CAN LEARN THIS FROM A PLACE, WHERE THERE IS NO GURUDAM, NO CHARGERS FOR TEACHING, WHICH IS VIPASSANA CENTER )

[@basoya07]

@@Jasveeer According to what I've come across at times, there is no separation between us and the trees or anything. All matter is just one matter. Thought would be matter too. Anyway, I don't care. I understand what you're saying though. I've practiced Vipassana. Cheers.

[@Jasveeer]

@@basoya07 so you have praticed vipassana what do you think is it exact same as Ks saying or its different in terms of practical

[@basoya07]

@@Jasveeer My understanding of K's words certainly evolved after Vipassana. However, his words on truth and reality specifically, are only understood now after I've had a glimpse of the truth. Truth is indeed a pathless land. No knowledge, no practice can take you there. All of it will evolve us as a human, but will not "take" us to the truth, which is all that there is. I wonder if I'll be well off not wanting to know or be happy. It seems so. All of it is not helping to want to see the truth. I come closer to myself when I relax.

[@yifuxero5408]

"Observer is the Observed" is another way of saying The Observer and the Observed are One (per Schroedinger), but also stated by the philosopher Henri Bergson. There is no "I" as a separate observer.

[@viameditation]

Separateness is the problem otherwise the whole universe is a single unit.... from separateness back to unity is the spiritual journey

[@naveenswarnkar4180]

Sir, which is your favourite books written by Honorable J. Krishnamurti? Please!

[@viameditation]

The first and last freedom is my favorite. However, please follow Krishnamurti foundation page on IG, they handpick excellent quotes and insights

[@tomdube7985]

Jkrishnamurti written only 2 books by himself, ( Krishnamurti Note book and Krishnamurti'Journal. Rest of all books transcripted from his talks.. 🙏

[@viameditation]

@@tomdube7985 Thanms Tom, you are correct. Most of the popular masters have the advantage that their spoken words also end up becoming written word. I have read the note book and was also good

[@chaysengy]

Physically , you and I , observer and observed , ARE different. ( physical law ). But mentally , physical objects has been translated into internal mental objects , mental images. All internal mental images within one's mind are the same. ( mental law ). But mentally, the mind is so conditioned to accept only physical law , thus the mind operate recognising that mental images are different. The conditioning and belief that the mental images are different and the interplay of "different" mental images causes dysfunction such as fear , anger , hatred , violence , etc. and the mind wrongly attribute these dysfunction to external blame because it is so conditioned to interpret the mind images as different external objects. But when one understand the mental law that mental images are all the same and are all internal , any dysfunction of the mind has to be self caused and self inflicted because all mental images are within oneself. Hence , dysfunction will naturally stop when the mind recognises it is self inflicted and self harmed. Would you not stop if you realise your right hand is stabbing your left hand ? The root cause of the mind's operating dysfunction is the conditioning and belief of physical law applied in mental operations and cnce we recognise this error , we will take full ownership of mental dysfunction of fear, anger , hatred , violence , etc. , thus self transformation. This dichotomy , of you and I are different ( physical world ) and you and I are the same ( mental world ) causes so much dysfunction within oneself. My interpretation of JK's teaching. 😅😮

[@viameditation]

You make a good point. When you wake up in the morning, your "personal universe" wakes up with you. Likewise, there are 8 billion mental world views across humans

[@tarakeshnc7417]

Sorry, but I think you have complicated.. Mind means fragmentation. One fragment (observing) at another fragment (observed) and sees it as different. But both are same.

[@PhillyTaiChi]

Keep quiet and the secret of your being will be revealed

[@viameditation]

Very true

[@hectorjr4385]

There are not two levels of interpretation. The observer is the observed means that the distinction between the observer (the one who perceives) and the observed (the object of perception) is an illusion. In other words, there is no fundamental separation between the two. The self that perceives and the object being perceived are not separate entities but are intrinsically linked. This is how K. explained this issue.

[@viameditation]

Everything is intrinsically linked

[@_.-c]

Actually JK's main point is not this.

[@viameditation]

Ok

[@linkinthedescription6731]

the observer gets observed. that dosnt make the observer which is subject into object

[@viameditation]

Witnessing is never an activity and hence it does not become an object. It's remains a witness .... a throbbing being in full awareness

[@linkinthedescription6731]

@@viameditation I think what J K is trying to say is the observer who is also a past image made up of experience conditions etc. observer is also observed. That's what makes duality. There is only observation if we use our total attention without division.

[@lakhbinderjitsingh7795]

It's the universe teaching of none duality with it as with the spirit IMEG ok

[@viameditation]

What is IMEG

[@lakhbinderjitsingh7795]

@@viameditation as a Sikh person honestly the IMEG of Christ smiling face with stars on the background of IMEG on towel as I wipe my face 🙏

[@viameditation]

@@lakhbinderjitsingh7795 I am also Sikh and like you, I also take inspiration from all wisdom traditions

[@100Kuigi]

2:55 is totally wrong. Thoughts never slow down , JK was talking in the way as it was supposed to be in case that people have to find the answer by and in themselves. No authority!!!

[@viameditation]

2.55 must be your experience / probably you have a lot of thoughts. Kindly do not generalize ... i am speaking from a direct experience. Have you been in a meditative trance?

[@100Kuigi]

@@viameditation you’re right

[@100Kuigi]

@@viameditation do you have WhatsApp number ?

[@shrirangdhawale7831]

categorising meditation in levels is like going against the very teachings of j k

[@viameditation]

There is just one state in true meditation - which is the state of no mind, when the "observer is the observed" ... all other states are of duality. I am not giving it levels, just trying to differentiate dual and non dual states

[@magicalworld7681]

A new born baby is not biased. He or she has no previous knowledge... There are many of us who come to experience things for the first time.. Then how could we say our previous knowledge is the reason of all that observed...?

[@viameditation]

A new born baby is "Tabula Rasa' or in other words like a blank CD and if you observe a child, he looks at everything with awe and wonder unlike grown ups that look at things with lens of knowledge. There are few new experiences but mind can extrapolate for eg) You may see a new and different animal but still have a concept around it. But your observation about the child is correct. I am reminded of a famous quote by Chuang Tzu (Chinese Taoist Master) .... "The baby looks at things all day without winking; that is because his eyes are not focused on any particular object. He goes without knowing where he is going, and stops without knowing what he is doing. He merges himself within the surroundings and moves along with it. These are the principles of mental hygiene"

[@1SpudderR]

What is “Connecting” Observer Observed!? Trillions of Quantum reactions totally inexplicable Without A Trilogy Of One!? All is One!?

[@viameditation]

True, you are looking at oneness... universe as a single unit

[@mavanijj]

Don’t get me wrong sir do you grasp that which is ? Jk talk for almost his last breath he said nobody is listening to him and you are trying to explain what JK said,don’t say anything about what you don’t know 🙏🙏

[@viameditation]

I am not getting you wrong and also agree with your essence. With this logic there was no need for JK to talk about “what is” … words are just finger pointing to the moon. To experience “What is” is state that comes as a gift from beyond. I have experienced numerous satori’s and also agree with you that no talk is needed at the “absolute level” but talk can help on “relative level”

[@internet_strange]

Any explanation either describes either the past or future, but not what is. I don't see a point of your need to give a commentary. It's like those reaction videos, you feel the need to put yourself in between the truth, form of seeking attention. I didn't need to comment but here I am doing it

[@viameditation]

You give an interesting perspective. But if stick to your perspective I dont see a reason for you to be putting your comment. Anyways, commentaries are an expression at phenomenal level.... silence is enough to see "what is" at the absolute level

[@ncn141953]

This is a total misrepresentation of J Krishnamurti’s concept. Please watch the video again of Krishnamurti explaining what he means when he says ‘the observer is the observed’ He simply points out by use of example - when I observe that I am angry I who is observing is not different from the anger. I am anger. I am envy, I am fear etc. I am not different from the content of my consciousness. I am the content of my consciousness.

[@viameditation]

Thanks for your comment. But important point to consider is that how is the content of the consciousness created? And what happens when the consciousness can be free of all content because that state of choice less awareness also exists

[@Jasveeer]

​@@viameditation let me try to explain sir your 1st point how the content of the consciousness created? its is the product of the thought, throughout our life thought take the help of our body sensation (which is the part of mind also ), and make content of the consciousness which is anger, hate, etc, and 2nd thing "choice less awareness also exists or not" sir it does not mean that there is a state after deep maditation where there is no choise, on the conterory choice less awareness means YOU are not choosing, you are being with "what is" that means looking it as it is, which means this is 1st step not after deep maditation there is a state, let me explain more, lets suppose your state of the mind is anger and you not choosing it, you are hating it, you from your thought is trying to push it,( that means creating aversion for it and your thought is asking for its oposite which is a state where you are not angry which is non fact for that moment, IT IS THE MOVMENT OF THOUGHT ) same with good moment or pleasure where you choosing it ( which means constent craving for it when its there in other words you want this thing to keep happening in future WHICH IS THE MOMENT OF THOUGHT) BUT WNEN WE ARE NOT DOING THAT WHEN WE ARE JUST OBSERVING IT AS IT IS, DEFILMENT COMES ON THE SURFACE OF THE MIND AND END, (WHICH IS EMPTING OF THE CONTENT) if you ask why it end while just observing THE ANSWER IS BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GIVING IT SUSTANING ENERGY WHICH IS THOUGHT OR INTELCT, BUT THERE IS A MISSING LINK WHICH IS SENSATION, WE DONT OBSERVE THE SENSATION, WE TRY TO DO THIS OBSERVATION THROUGH THOUGHT AND WE DELUDE OURSERSELF THAT WE ARE OBSERVING, IF YOU ARE GIVEING MOMENTUM TO THOUGHT TO OBSERVE THEN WE ARE CREATING DULLITY( THE THING WHICH IS AND AND THE MOMENT OF THOUGHT), AND MANY OF US ARE VERY MUCH LESS SENASITIVE IN TERMS OF OBSERVING SENSATION, WE KNOW THE WORDS OF HATE, ANGER , GREED, BUT WE HAVE VERY LESS DIRRECT CONNECT WITH ITS MAIN PART WHICH IS THERE SENSASATION.( IF YOU LEARN THIS ART OF OBSERVATION FROM A VIPASSANA CENTER Ks WORDS WILL BE SO CLEAR YOU WONT BELIVE, THERE IS NO GURUDUM INVOLVE IN IT, AND NO EXPLOATION BECAUSE TEACHING IS FREE FROM A VIPPASANA CENTER )

[@rajindergoyal9990]

Only truth nothingness

[@viameditation]

So true

[@Oppositethink]

Did you talked about Osho in a video you mention Krishnamurti? Don't you have any shame? The observer it's the observed it's not a concept, it's fact of life. You surely not understand it.

[@viameditation]

Dude, where do you get this toxicity from? You seem to be heavily caught in duality where one has to hate Osho in order to love Krishnamurthi. Words are just used as tools - calling it a concept or fact of life is also play of words. "Understanding" lies in a state where there are no words. I am always open to discussions but you can put your views in a better way for sure

[@bnj2669]

There is no observer! There is nothing. The observer cannot be observed. The observer is the mind.

[@viameditation]

Observer is the pure state and mind is the obstruction. Mind gone, Observer remains like they say in Zen "clouds gone, mountain appears"

[@observer6307]

You look similar to jk 😮

[@viameditation]

You are being too gracious. His presence was like a Mandala for me

[@rupaanicca9510]

sorry

[@texastexas4541]

Part-1 explanation. Your explanation is somewhat confusing to me. The following helps me understand it better. The Observer is the Observed. The world appears to you as you are. The quality of the mind with all its contents is what appears to you, as the brain processes its contents and presents it to the consciousness. What enters through your eyes are just reflected lights from objects. The brain has no way of interpreting those wavelengths of light as the world unless it has some previous memories of which the brain can process, make predictions based on previously constructed models (in the memory), and present it to you as the present world. The brain is a predictor, and it is playing the video of the world within your consciousness. In other words, you are observing the world within you; you are the world. Therefore, the observer is the observed. Part-2 explanation: Again, I am confused by what you said. I see it differently based on the following explanation (more meaningful). There is no Observer and the Observed. When the observer is free of preconditioning and bias, and his observation is honest, then both the observer and observed dissolve into each other (no separation, non duality) and the falseness disappears. Since both of them are constructs based on preexisting ideas, models (product of memory, preconditioning etc), both are to be considered FALSE. Honest observation is the ending of both the observer and the observed.

[@viameditation]

@@texastexas4541 thanks for your reply. Some of these concepts can be subject to interpretation and nothing in spoken word is the absolute truth. Ramona Maharishi once said "We are so engrossed in the objects revealed by light that we pay no attention to be rooted in the light". To be rooted in that light is a state when observer becomes the observed. Happy to discuss... your insights are also valuable

[@texastexas4541]

@@viameditation I agree. Nobody really knows what the truth is or anything like that. Everyone, who was apparently enlightened in the past, says different things. Sometimes I feel like this is all carefully orchestrated mental gymnastics to explain their individual subjective experience. But this is all interesting to discuss and share views with others. Best wishes!

[@silence1739]

Jk never believed anything at all he was just pure observer.. He directly experienced everything... But no one ever understand jk...

[@viameditation]

Yes

[@onlythebestthoughts3338]

Everything is meant to decrypt. What is there to understand JK? He is poor at expressing the same idea, that too in many occasions. It is the not the idea that people will connect at first, people will connect to your communication or language. The word " Observer is the observed" can be expressed better. The observer is observing the time (or memory) frames which are belonged to the past of the observer. Project it on to TIME dimension, we can know that both the object and observer are separate in TIME, in a unit of fraction or lesser.

[@channiedhillon]

I think this sounds like a good explanation... Hey what's your name btw are you also on fb or insta...??

[@viameditation]

Hi Channie, thanks. My name is Jas Anand. I have my personal FB page but not for Via Meditation