What Makes A Great First Boss?

[@DesignDoc]

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[@joanvillier3918]

On Twilight Princess, one of the first mechanics shown are used for fight Ganondorf, the last boss fight. The mechanic is presented by a goat fleeing and you have to throw it a side.

[@dibs6462]

what the dog doin

[@geraldhobbs1487]

ocarina of time was the first-ever boss I fought and won in a game it's really easy now that I know the game better but still interesting mechanics to me at least

[@slyceth]

No, the Undertale Toriel boss SUCKED at introducing me to the spare mechanics, I had no idea i COULD spare her

[@supervisedreactions6156]

Your words were hard too follow

[@Dharengo]

The real beauty in Toriel’s boss design is how likely the player is to first kill her, reset and then spare her, and then be confronted by the game itself about the fact that it knows what you did.

[@scantyer]

did that on my first playthrough and i was so surprised

[@iaxacs3801]

I tried so hard, it was an accident ok I thought the game wanted me to just lower her health first. Stupid flower.

[@zuzucha5881]

@@iaxacs3801 Toriel's fight is designed to kill her by accident. Previous fights show you lowering health allows you to spare. But for Toriel, once you lower her health you do her more damage, making it easier for you to kill her. This allows the player to kill her by accident, incentivicing the use of the reset mechanic.

[@VenatorRobotics]

​@@zuzucha5881 To be honest I've never understood why people think the Toriel boss is good game design. I also accidentally killed Toriel, and that flower called me an idiot when I restarted the game. But, how am I the idiot? The game just changed it's battle mechanics on the fly without any indication, and made me feel like garbage for it. After that boss, I became super paranoid about my in-game decisions. I quickly got tired of feeling like that and just stopped playing after a few more hours. I think Undertale is the only game I've played in which the first boss actually ruined the rest of the game for me.

[@AnotherDuck]

@@VenatorRobotics I agree. The Toriel fight cheats, which makes it the worst fight in the entire game. First, a lot of players who end up killing her don't make the decision to not spare her, but rather they don't notice that the game is actually progressing when you continue to pick "spare" so they only end up killing her out of frustration against the game not letting them do what they actually want. Second, the game changes the game mechanics to kill her when she's no where near low health. That's straight up the game killing her, not the player. It's not an accident by the player. Worst of all, regardless of what actually happened, the game treats killing Toriel as a moral decision made by the player. Which is one of the worst parts of the already flawed morality of Undertale.

[@kyuboxincubox7556]

A lot of people don't seem to know that Toriel CAN kill you, but you have to trick her into it. She clearly didn't mean to do it since she has a shocked and horrified expression on her face. Toriel's attacks will start dodging you if you have low HP on her turn. If you use healing items right, you can give yourself just enough HP that she'll attack you... and then you deliberately start rubbing your face in multiple bullets and die before her turn ends. It's like the reverse of an unbeatable first boss in a JRPG. A boss you're not supposed to lose against but still can if you know what you're doing.

[@derinedala5032]

I'm so bad at dodging I managed to die to Toriel by accident on my first try. :(

[@Ramsey276one]

Or if you’re DRIFTING I Mean PANIK XD

[@nicocchi]

It's a neat easter egg. Her horrified expression flashes for like a couple frames at most

[@klinxium8627]

@@derinedala5032.

[@jebbsredemption]

@@nicocchi One single frame i think.

[@codyallen43]

You should do a design doc on "unbeatable" bosses

[@renewagain6956]

53rd'd.

[@valvadis2360]

It would be great. I feel so many games don't do these well, it would be good to see more exemples of well done unbeatables than Tales of Berseria.

[@Vulcanfaux]

As in bosses the game doesn't let you beat? Like how xenoblade's first metal face encounter doesn't let you beat him

[@AziDoesQuestionableThings]

100th like

[@Saxjon]

The best "unbeatable" bosses are those you can beat and something different actually happens in the story! (In my opinion)

[@NemoNobodySMT]

"He's trying to speedrun his way to jail" I laughed my ass off 10 minutes

[@WhiteFangofWar]

I laughed until I remembered that he would never have gone to jail or been punished at all if you hadn't stolen his heart. He would have just kept on going with the same crimes and being protected by the school.

[@appelofdoom8211]

I feel like you left two things out of the false knight explanation. 1. unlike most other enemies the boss initially doesn't give you soul when you hit him. This means that if you are to reckless you might run out of soul pretty quickly especially since getting interrupted right after or partway during a heal wastes soul. However hitting the maggot piloting the armor does give you soul back and you can only hit the maggot after dealing enough damage to knock the false knight down. This is the game telling you that being observant and finding the opportunity to both heal and safely hit your opponent are key to victory. 2. You can leave the false knight boss fight halfway through. You can see at 3:56 that the wall above the gate gets cracked after the false knights first temper tantrum. You can actually break it open and escape. Letting you move on with the game without ever beating him. this is not only useful in speedruns but it also tells you that there are a lot of unconventional shortcuts you can take if you look around hard enough.

[@Saxjon]

And it also has some implications in lore regarding what actually gives you soul.

[@juanrodriguez9971]

I feel the crack on the door is a poorly designed thing since even for most of the fandom it feels more like an Easter egg rather than a mechanic you are intended to use, since the moment the crack happens you will miss it because you are focused on the boss at the other side of the room, just like the lifeblood bugs above the mantis sister's it is an Easter egg, not a mechanic you will use on your first attempt.

[@jitsauce522]

​@@juanrodriguez9971 I feel like thats kind of the point though there's no need to make it obvious because what makes it special in the first place is the fact that it ISNT obvious, its something only a few players will find out either on their first chance or a replay, making it too obvious will end up making nearly everyone take that option instead. I personally think it was put there as a nice detail and cool hidden option, not as a game mechanic everyone was meant to find out tbh

[@annaaerial9255]

Thanks to your comment, I noticed that the wall above the gate has some repairs on it. Noticing this rewards players who look closely at the environment!

[@masterboa6321]

wait false knight doesn't give you soul?

[@PineappleLiar]

Just wanna mention that the Toriel fight in Undertale is also a good lesson in learning just how meta the game can get later down the line. If you go into the fight blind, the option to continually spare your opponent may not be an obvious one, and repeatedly acting instead doesn’t help end the fight. A player might try fighting instead, on the idea that maybe lowering her health is key to getting her to stop, which is where the damage mechanics come into play and make you deal a killing blow when Toriel is only at half health. So you kill Toriel, but you didn’t mean to, and you know you can go through this game without killing, as that’s the whole conceit of the fighting! So you don’t save and retry the fight, either figuring it out yourself or looking online to learn how to save her. You do and it’s all hunky dory! But as you leave the tutorial area, Flowey comes up and reveals that he’s aware you killed her, and then went back in time to fix your mistake. At that point it’s clear that a reset is not at all enough to keep the game from learning about your mistakes.

[@Ramsey276one]

That’s Master Grade game making!

[@artvulture456]

"You look like you've seen a ghost" She scared me when she said that oof

[@hyperkid321]

Yeah, that's what made her a memorable first boss for me. Because I did exactly that, and my jaw hit the floor when Flowey called me out on resetting the game.

[@Data-Expungeded]

Not only does it teach you mechanics and sparing but how the game always remembers

[@Data-Expungeded]

@@artvulture456 same

[@cosmicspacething3474]

I also like the small detail in Toriel’s boss fight when you actually die (which you have to go out of your way to do) she briefly has a terrified expression before your soul shatters.

[@dragon_user1609]

…I was bad enough that I died to her on accident

[@naurrr2471]

Which is kinda ironic since that's also what your reaction would be when you accidentally kill her. It's so good

[@J.Blazer]

Fun fact: if you have done a geno run, that stops happening

[@woodykrska9947]

How do you die, I tried it’s hard

[@cosmicspacething3474]

@@woodykrska9947 I think you move to one side, and then quickly go to the other side as the flames come closer to the center?

[@jomogaming2]

"Toriel appears right in the beginning to save you from a flower" Trust me, it makes a lot more sense with context.

[@npcmcishark7379]

I thought that too

[@TheEmeraldSword04]

A lot of Undertale could be described that way. You get chased by a 7ft piranha chick with an eye-patch and hefty armor because she wants your soul to give to the king, but there is a good reason in the lore for that.

[@gasterthemaster6490]

And at the end, the flower absorbs every soul in the underground and becomes a demonic goat fursona.

[@tf2sniper449]

I guess I'll have to play this undertale game.

[@ninjaxsubzero7438]

In deltarune, you meet a guy wearing a spade outfit who rides a flaming bicycle, only to attack a green goat prince, resulting in an explosion. He then proceeds to start conflict with you, a blueberry, as well as your associate, Barney the dinosaur. Eventually spade man but with marker-pliers mustache appears and you must create a machine to deliberately fulfill your masochistic desires. Eventually you fight a dancing red circle you seduces you. Eventually people start simping on spade man and Barney and they get air-blown by green-slabs. Eventually Barney fights spade thing and they have an epic showdown where the spade guy gets filled with the power of AMOGUS T SHIRT and uses his pumpkin-powers to make Barney be his friend (did I assume a gender?). Later you proceed to fight and insane demon jester. He wields the epic power of creating a face that makes you comment “Sauce Pls”. Eventually you beat up some guy with 2 mouths and tongues. There’s also this one blue guy with a cool hair-do who likes eating worms. After that you rip your soul out of your body only to chuck it into a black and white water fountain and then play musics. Then the crack wears off and you wake up in some classroom which had somebody hire a toddler janitor in order to clean up. Thank you for listening to my tale

[@louis559]

Father Gascoigne from Bloodborne is amazing mechanically. He's a huge gate to progression until you start to understand the type of combat the game wants you to engage in. Dodging away and playing defensively will almost always get you killed very quickly, but being aggressive and dodging into his attacks makes the fight a lot easier than most new players assume at first.

[@gifdar]

He is the perfect first boss for bloodborne cause even if you have played all other dark souls games Gascoigne makes sure you can’t maintain the usual souls play style. You have to adapt to bloodborne’s hectic, fast paced, aggressive combat if you want to succeed

[@crestfallenwarrior5719]

Gascoigne was a freaking hard first Boss. He fucked me Up atleast 10 Times before i even got to Phase 2 (i have to say that im a filthy Casual tho)

[@icarue993]

Talking about FromSoftware, I think the first one in DS3 is a good re introduction boss. He is not a pushover as the Asylum demon, but it's not that impossible either.

[@autisticturtle1849]

He teaches you the ancient art of not letting your enemy move

[@LucidDreamexe]

Gascoigne feels like a boss designed to kill Dark Souls players, where cleric beast butchered ppl new to the franchise, souls vets handled the big beastie withease. Gascoigne was the inverse, easy for newcomers but a terribly large hurdle for soul vets. THats my and my friends experience at least, and it made Cosplaying him in game a TREAT when invading~~~

[@benjamator6700]

I'm glad you talked about False Knight and Ghirahim. False Knight was incredibly scary to me on my first time playing Hollow Knight. I sucked and didn't want to approach. He beat me multiple times and I didn't even knock him down once. Then my brother told me this. "He is more scared of you than you are of him". So I stuck close and kept pestering him until I knocked him down. That's when I realised that he really was more scared of me. I beat the fight on my first try after that. Ghirahim also taught me to strategize as well. I didn't have my brothers to help me so I kept mashing and swinging and he kept beating me. Then I decided to wait and see what he would do. He didn't attack all and only sometimes threw those shadow daggers at me. I learned that I needed to bait him out and it worked. He got beat really quick and I did the same strategy on the second phase but more defensive and reactive. It also worked. These 2 fights gave me the most satisfaction from a game for a while.

[@ambinub]

W brother 😎😎😎

[@J.R.Unbound]

I love how tips like that can completely turn the tides. I had a similar experience with Nosk, where I had to calm myself down to win.

[@rezkin_kdt7034]

Yeah!

[@AndroidHarris]

I never understood ghiraham. I just flailed until I got a single hit off him and every fight with him took at least an hour. I beat the game but I don't get what his fingers mean. When I slowed down and tried I just gave him my blade more than just try every direction in flailing motion.

[@wooden_bench_acolyte]

@@J.R.Unbound Yeah, I had a similar experience. At first I used my usual strat towards bosses of finish it quickly and only heal occasionally, but I easily died using that strategy. Then I started being more defensive, which is what the devs intended you to do. Nosk is the predator, and you are the prey. Slowly chip it down until you win while using those safe spots.

[@parsuli.]

A good, weirdly fitting first boss is Badeline from Celeste. She chases you through a whole section which introduces time pressure to show off the mechanics you just learned in the past chapter and a half, but because she literally mirrors you, she's only as skilled as you are. At the same time, the boss is also a story driven boss because she introduces you to the theme of running away from the darker part of yourself.

[@AnotherDuck]

I disagree. She's not "weirdly fitting". She's _appropriately_ fitting. :P

[@parsuli.]

Another Duck right. What I meant is that she's a bit of an odd boss, in that she's more like an obstacle. Arguably, I'd say that Oshiro is a more traditional boss.

[@AnotherDuck]

@@parsuli. Well, bosses in Celeste are generally timed challenges rather than opponents to fight. Now, the actual boss battle against Badeline when you do defeat her is awesome, though.

[@steeledminer616]

I wouldn't call her a "Boss" Per se. Celeste's entire game design is the final 1/3rd of a level ties the rest of the level up until that point together. This is no different for that.

[@lextatertotsfromhell7673]

I love Celeste

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

Ghirahim has cemented himself as one of my favorite first bosses because of how unique he was to fight. I was expecting the traditional “ooh big scary monster that conveniently has a giant eye that’s its weak spot”

[@Simply_resharkable]

And the big scary monster with a conveniently placed eye went on to be almost everyone other boss in the game

[@thecommonman9524]

​@@Simply_resharkablewow, literally every other boss in Skyward Sword that isn't Ghirahim or Demise/The Imprisoned has a convenient eyeball weak point except for Koloktos. I never realized that. No wonder Koloktos is considered the best boss in that game.

[@eggrollwilly1935]

i also love how the final boss fight of skyward sword Demise is essentially an upgraded harder version of ghirahim in his 1st phase he anticipates and blocks all your attacks so you have to hit through his guard much like ghirahim's 1st phase and then in his second phase he introduces the lightning mechanics where now challenging his guard damages you so you have to wait for him to get rid of his lightning defense and you're able to attack him again

[@ShadowMasterT]

An unconventional bad “First Boss” would be the opening mission to the game “Driver” (PC). You have to pull off a literal checklist of stunts in a very tight and unforgiving time limit that leaves little room to error. For the child me, it effectively blocked me out of the actual game. I doubt even the “experienced gamer”™ me of today, around 20 years later, could pull it off. And I heard nothing in that game comes even close to requiring such skills, so it’s not even an effective “you’ll need these skills to progress through the game” checkpoint.

[@DesignDoc]

Mike rented Driver as a kid and couldn't get past that checklist. Just repeated failing at stunt driving for the entire rental period. Absolutely brutal first 'boss'. Years later he got through it, but the last level in the game is also ridiculous.

[@theezenith]

I remember having this game. But all I remember is that parking garage. I never got past it lol

[@mochamadcorysaktitriwangsa1398]

Wtf is slalom

[@brishanf4526]

same. I hated the stunt driving so bad. pretty much ruined the game for me.

[@aschelocke5287]

@@DesignDoc last couple of levels actually are BRUTAL

[@dachking6657]

My favorite first boss is the starting cliff in Breath of the Wild. As a long-time Zelda player, I jumped off of it expecting to lose a single heart and then to be able to explore the forest below, and was surprised when the force of the impact shattered Link’s bones and killed him instantly. This really set the tone for the game, as it essentially said that this game isn’t your dad’s Zelda, and that it would not pull any punches or hold your hand. In all seriousness my favorite is Kamoshida.

[@Tom-vx7qh]

I honestly can't think of anybody who didn't die their first time trying to climb down the first tower. All of my friends died, every playthrough I saw died, I died, I refuse to believe that anyone survived that first tower.

[@Ilias2]

@@Tom-vx7qh I did. I didn't even know that dying on that tower was a thing!

[@scragar]

@@Tom-vx7qh there's water near by, I just did what a normal person would do and tested to see if I could land in it. The idea of trying to climb or jump down onto land never occured to me.

[@dazcarrr]

I mean you laugh but the first goomba in SMB has a higher kill count than any other enemy in the game

[@CreamCakes420]

So I survived the tower then went back up it then died

[@durpify5300]

I love when the first boss returns as a common enemy after you get more powerful. Really gives you a sense of progression

[@ユニティーちゃん]

I hate it tho.. very lazy design.

[@MrLednard]

I hate it because it's usually the bosses I hate the most that comes back.

[@omegamecha7666]

@@ユニティーちゃん not really, unless it's used excessively

[@icey_john]

I prefer the opposite, when the first boss returns later but much stronger and totally mops the floor with you. *cough* gundyr

[@sasin2715]

ULTRAKILL does this well, you go from chipping away a floating head's health to obliterating a being of god in under 10 seconds using totally intentional game mechanics.

[@hydrasent563]

A cool thing about false knight and lots of the other bosses is that the stronger enemies in the area are similar to the main boss of that area to prepare you for the fight and teach you mechanics. Examples: Husk guard : false knight Traitor mantis : traitor lord Soul twister : soul master

[@captainblue5096]

Other bosses like this include: Uumuu to the jellyfish and Charged Lumaflies Mantis Lords to the…. Well…. Mantises. Massive Moss Charger to the smaller Moss Chargers Vengefly King and Gruz Mother to Vengefliee and Gruzzere Grimm and NKG to the Grimmkin

[@mayonnaise2396]

Dark souls 3 does the same thing! Little mage dudes before the crystal sage Crystal lizard dudes before vordt Darkwraiths infighting before the abyss watchers DARK SOULS 1 PVP before soul of cinder Pontiff knights before sulyvahn

[@mayonnaise2396]

@@captainblue5096 I don’t think dream fights count. TMG is the same guy as NKG.

[@ElCojedorr]

@@mayonnaise2396 according to the lore. no, they're not the same

[@hannahkemarly6089]

came here to say this exact thing. when I fought false knight, the game had already given me some practice with their mechanics, so it was just a matter of honing the timing

[@cprc15]

I feel like Metal Face from Xenoblade Chronicles makes for one of the best first bosses. Mechanically it shows off not all mechon can be hurt by the Monado which is also story important. While also showing not all enemies can be Break/Toppled normally, you need a chain attack. And of course the story relevancy in the scene between fights and the call to action the follows it. Just an all around amazing boss to kick of the adventure

[@aphato2770]

Aren't chain attacks first introduced with Xord tho?

[@dicksonmattxenoblade6491]

If I remember correctly, they're introduced right when you get to Tephra Cave.

[@cprc15]

@@aphato2770 I do remember they are brought up again for Xord, but I know there is a tutorial mention before the second phase of the Metal Face fight

[@cprc15]

@@dicksonmattxenoblade6491 This is true so i guess it isn’t the first mention. I was specifically just meaning the concept of chain attacking bigger enemies to inflict break since i dont think it’s mentioned the first time? My memory could be a bit off

[@codename618]

@@cprc15 It actually first gets mentioned against Metal Face, then it gets mentioned again for the Xord fight.

[@britaingray5400]

I'd argue Kamishida is too strong at his job. I mean he does his job so well that the other villains feel underwhelming in comparison. Looking at you Madarame and Okumara

[@coryrobertson6367]

Okumara has some bopping tunes in his factory at least.

[@stock_img]

Kaneshiro was the most underwhelming Palace Ruler to me, honestly. At least Madarame and Okumura have personal connections to the party members to motivate you. They could've tied Kaneshiro into Makoto's story by having him be the one that called the hit on her dad, but they didn't. It's really weird, actually - literally all of the other major antagonist characters have directly impacted at least one of the Thieves.

[@TheGamingLegendsOfficial]

@@stock_img I somehow misread that. Rereading, agreed

[@jeremytewari3346]

Kaneshiro’s dungeon is a bop but god does he suck story-wise. I kinda agree that Kamoshida is way too good at his job that it makes the others less impactful, but Madarame still committed murder with extra steps, and Okumura’s arc would’ve sucked regardless, so I don’t hold it against them

[@spartythespart]

thats the same way i feel about metal gear re-vengeance. The first metal gear fight was so cool I just quit playing the game and ive never gone further than one or two bosses more because I feel like I've already beat the coolest boss.

[@mewblue3997]

The First boss in Bug Fables was amazing too, it's pretty simple but it really cements the personalities of the main cast and the second round feels like a really satisfying conclusion to the first chapter

[@chickennugget6684]

And it teaches you the main gimmicks of each character’s attacks well, Vi is the only character who knock down the spider when he’s on his web, Leif has icefall, and the jellyshroom Spuder summons is weak to ice, and Kabbu is the only one at this point who can flip the Inichas.

[@mostdefinitelynotaguineapi7566]

@@chickennugget6684 Except that the player has already learnt all of that.

[@markerikson7423]

@@mostdefinitelynotaguineapi7566 that's kinda the point

[@mostdefinitelynotaguineapi7566]

@@markerikson7423 While the fight is designed to test the players grasp of the basics of the combat system, the player has already learned how the protagonists abilities work. Therefore Chicken Nugget was incorrect, therefore I corrected him/her.

[@npcmcishark7379]

The music was alsi incredible

[@UltimateStarky]

Didn't expect some Ace Attorney analysis here, but certainly not complaining.

[@Ramsey276one]

Same

[@axoltheartist]

YEAH!!! Ace Attorney is the best ahhhhhhh! (I really like it and the community)

[@UselessAccountt]

⁠@@axoltheartistDANGANRONPA BETTER (I sometimes hate it and fully hate the community)

[@pedroscoponi4905]

The Toriel fight also encourages you away from sparing without solving a monster's puzzle (which you can do by leaving them injured) by having her take an unexpected _chunk_ of damage once her health is below 40%-ish.

[@deficit06]

When i played Undertale the first time i just fought Torial like in any RPG thinking, I just need to drop her hp to zero, then she will be fine and let me be, like in a lot of other RPGs. How wrong I was XD

[@Omninerd000]

Yeah, Toriel fight is mostly designed as to trick people into fighting and getting the neutral route first. I went in blind and thought that sparing her was not an option because she was the first enemy to take multiple attempts at sparing (which she gives a hint about earlier on, but I didn't catch it), so I thought that I should get her weak first, accidentaly killing her because that was mainly what the game intended for a first playthrough

[@Dharengo]

@@Omninerd000 Nah the real beauty is in how it gets the player to kill her, reset, and then spare her.

[@jasonreed7522]

@@Dharengo and then get CALLED OUT BY A FLOWER for doing exactly that

[@pedroscoponi4905]

@@Omninerd000 hard same, exactly what I did

[@NShadow]

One of my favorite first bosses is Hooktail from Paper Mario TTYD. Establishes the tremendous scale of the game's chapter bosses, difficulty is solid, and it utilizes so much of the game's wit and humor

[@matthewjones6786]

Ah, that’s a good one. It also makes it clear to the player that these bosses are going to have some unorthodox tactics for a JRPG, such as equipping a badge that… I forget, but I think it starts with “cr” and ends with “ickets”. Atypical bosses continue in the modern games too, Origami King had some awesome bosses all with very unique tactics.

[@Fueledbychapstick]

Also subverts your understanding of the audience mechanic by devouring them for HP!!

[@Jarory1]

The asylum demon is a great first boss. The first time you encounter it, it teaches you not to pick a fight you're not ready for. And when you actually fight it, it reinforces many of the games core features, gives you an advantage in the drop down attack, and sets the tone for what to expect going forward.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

at the same time it perfectly shows the new mecanic of plunge attacks that ends up quickly forgotten.

[@EDsCorner]

Toriel is still one of my favorite first bosses because it really does put to the test the mercy mechanic and how much you believe it works. I was someone that fell for the trap of resetting after accidentally killing her and what Flowey said after scared the heck out of 7th grade me lol

[@VulpineFox7]

Agreed

[@Azraelgaming745]

*proceeds to surprise kill her*

[@UselessAccountt]

I had the game spoiled for me so I didn’t kill her, which I deeply regret

[@CyanWyrmie]

The main impact from Toriel boss fight actually comes if you screw it up and kill her: The game hints at monsters being more likely to surrender on mercy if their health is low, so a new player might fall to the trap of thinking that is the correct way spare Toriel. Her health bar decreasing faster when she's low causing player to accidentally deal the fatal blow due to thinking she can tank a few more hits, which makes her dying even more shocking. The player remembers Undertale advertised as the rpg where no one has to die, which gives them determination to try to find the trick to sparing her, and doing the age old videogame trick of quitting without saving and fighting Toriel again. After sparing Toriel, player meets Flowey again, who makes a comment on that very quitting without saving you just pulled off, revealing Undertale's signature 4th wall breaking gimmick and wowing the new player for good

[@AnotherDuck]

That's pretty much what made me never want to play the game at all. Tricking the player into doing one thing, and then giving a different result from doing that than anywhere else in the game isn't teaching the player anything other than being very, very careful, because the game can't be trusted.

[@iranoutofideasforausernam1703]

@@AnotherDuck This is the reason the game frustrates me. As much as I love it, the combination of massive fanbase pushing me to play it and terrible first boss almost made me hate it, though when I reached Papyrus, it was all worth it. Papyrus seems a lot better as a first boss than Toriel, as others have mentioned.

[@AnotherDuck]

@@iranoutofideasforausernam1703 Yeah, the game does have a lot of good things going for it. The Toriel fight and the way it handles morality aren't it. If those were reworked, it could've been a great game.

[@do0nv]

this game is WAYYY to inconsistent. Like I got that creepy flowey boss ending. but for some fucking reason I can't do passifest because of my "past actions" like dude, I bought the fucking game, let me experience everything.

[@AnotherDuck]

@@do0nv Well, if you want to experience everything you need to play it through at least once for every ending. Or at least once from the last point where you can change it.

[@MrMatheuslego]

As someone with pretty much no metroidvania experience other than Hollow Knight, that explanation fits my experience perfectly. I wasn't depending on the healing mechanic that much, but I was abusing the hell of that very small pushback/stun caused by landing a hit on an enemy of your own size. That fight was like the game looking me dead in the eye and saying "you **need** to learn how to dodge things". It made this otherwise intimidating game accessible for a scrub like me. And boy howdy did that pay off when I actually managed to defeat NKG

[@justarandomguy983]

I agree, now, tell me.. what pantheon are you on? I myself are on p3.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@justarandomguy983 And now, where are you? I've done p5 with charm binding a couple months ago.

[@justarandomguy983]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 I literally said in my comment, but I'm. currently around the mushroom place in Steelsoul

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@justarandomguy983 It's been 2 months since you made that comment...I assumed you made some progress in the pantheons.

[@justarandomguy983]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 well I couldn't play hk for a while due to family issues.

[@blackcorona07]

One of my favourite first bosses is the Big Green Chuchu in The Legend of Zelda The Minish Cap. You encounter those pesky slimes all the time, but theyre no threat at all as theyre slow and only deal a quarter heart of damage anyways. So why is it so memorable to me? Well one of the main features of Minish Cap is shrinking, through which you become incredibly small and can access new areas like the first dungeon. You go through that and in the last room theres suddenly a cutscene. A regular Chuchu comes to the dungeon and falls into it. That slime you normally kill in a few swings or outright ignore due to how pathetic they are is suddenly several times taller than you and can easily crush you to death. The fight itself isnt that hard, but the way it was set up made it so interesting to me. Using the games mechanics to make a regular enemie a boss isnt anything new but the way Minish Cap did it was unexpected but so incredibly fitting.

[@aubreyh1930]

Minish cap was so fun I don’t know why it’s almost never talked about. It looks amazing too

[@VulpineFox7]

I love this boss too, it's my favorite boss in the game.

[@VulpineFox7]

​@@aubreyh1930iI, it's so underrated. It was released right before a new Nintendo console, so that is why its so overlooked.

[@fieratheproud]

"Justice For All is a sequel in a story heavy series, so it's not very likely a new player will start with this case" *sweating * hahaha yea that would be silly wouldn't it, totally wasn't my introduction to the series no sirree

[@Ceral_]

I had a similar experience where I decided to play the Danganronpa games out of order and started with 3. (I, thankfully, had seen some youtube clips of the game before without majorly spoiling the story and knew how to play. Otherwise I would have been overwhelmed.)

[@orcuswells649]

This topic always makes me think of SMTIV's minotaur- it absolutely demanded you master the buffs and press turn system that define the combat for the rest of the game. The main issue I have is that the dungeon before it is pretty low on resources you can use, in terms of money, xp, and demons to recruit to get a variety of skills. The low xp yield also means that you'll likely have to do at least a little grinding to unlock the skills you need. The rest of the game gets a lot easier, once you start having the tools to really exploit the game systems, so this difficulty wall doesn't really seem necessary to me.

[@appelofdoom8211]

Also your partner (which is random) means that you can soemtimes get fucked by luck alone since Walter can randomly use spells that the minotaur is immune to (which can make him smirk and kill you)

[@matteste]

Actually I think Minotaur is an awful example. It is a case of the game starving you for resources and being heavily reliant on luck to beat. Forneus from Nocturne would be a better example of a good early boss, of course later followed by the infamous roadblock that is Matador.

[@fikamonster2564]

Ill end it thus!

[@Default78334]

@@matteste The Matador isn't that bad. The game offers you exactly the magatama you need to defeat him right before the fight.

[@smtandearthboundsuck8400]

Lol, all you need to do is spam bufu and sukus. Then the rest of the game is a snoozefest. What useful thing does he teach you? Nothing that Naraku random encounters already didn’t tell you. He’s a horrible first boss. Even the meme Matador could’ve been a better example

[@Mario17h1]

Bowser's Inside Story has such a good first boss, best one in the Mario and Luigi RPG series. It showcases all of the mechanics of the game along with being a good skill-check for you as well. There's a reason why "Bowser's Inside Story" is considered the best Mario and Luigi RPG game in the series.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Yo holy shit I just realized after all these years that you play as the first boss (Bowser) to beat the final boss (dark bowser)

[@iantaakalla8180]

Furthermore, the actual first boss (Sea Pipe Statue) is also a neat introduction as to how battles could go, going in between Bowser and Mario and Luigi and is weirdly cooperative between both which is not used again until the last boss. And then there is the first boss of the Giant battles, Bowser’s Castle.

[@TheArnal503]

Kuze was a great first boss in Yakuza 0. On the other hand, Shimano from Kiwami absolutely sucked, the whole fight takes so long to finish due to your low damage output, plus he heals when his hp is low, and the only way to stop that is using a Kiwami move on him, which most players won't know they have to unlock in the Skill Tree because the game never specifies it's one of the skills you lose after the prologue.

[@c4ront398]

I don't know Kiwami's moves until the Coliseum. But the Hardest Part of Yakuza Kiwami (Was My Firts Yakuza) is Majima fight on Batting Centter and The Katana Guy with Katana Thugs

[@amnot9958]

I feel Yakuza games have this weird middle ground between being accessible and being inaccessible. They have lots of super simple mechanics such as the combat system being more than functional without its nuances, as I managed to get halfway through 0 before actually doing heat actions or advanced moves (I skipped tutorials like a dumbass). Thus a lot of bosses also do a good job of testing your skills and being possible to beat at lower skill levels (albeit with more challenge as is expected), and characters that introduce themes, story elements, and character traits in very intuitive ways that allow players to learn and become interested even without context. On the other hand a lot of points also rely on already being familiar with the franchise. Shimano there is a great example as you can at least argue seasoned players are more likely to use the skill tree efficiently and get kiwami moves. Similarily boss fights like Jingu or Y4's most infamous boss (no spoilers, a smaller portion of the fandom has reached that game) are challenging and annoying even for veteran players. Newer players will be under geared or under prepared by a wide margin and I've known people who quit the games/series over these bosses. It's especially frustrating when the best idea to beat Y4's boss is to equip a specific piece of armor you can only equip on one of the 4 protags, and it's not Kiryu but the most technical character with the highest skill ceiling. Meaning you can be punished for putting on the main character of the series, the easier characters, or your favorite/best to play as, and few new players will ever think to put it on the right one because his difficulty turns them away. Not to mention the lack of context on all prior events and almost never recapping, only the vaugest of references. It makes people going to 0 confused at the references to the later games and players who started with the other games confused as to what characters are talking about. This is especially bad in Kiwami as 1 had very little context to begin with aside from the main elements of the story, which was rectified but still has some traces left. First bosses like Kuze are amazing and show the welcoming side of the series, others... not so much.

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

Ghirahim has always been one of my favorite villains in games & that first boss encounter is a great example of how. Even booting up the HD version years after I had first played the Wii version, it's such a fun fight & a great way to introduce the character who is effectively the main antagonist for most of the game. Edit because wanted to also add in another first boss that the vid didn't mention: One good one on the mechanics side would be the dual giants in Dust. Right before you enter the first town of the game, some farmers get attacked & you have to fight 2 enemies who hit hard but can be parried for massive damage if you got the mechanic down so it's a combo of making sure you dodge right so you don't get sandwiched & getting the parries off. I know they don't get the giant health meters that characters like Fuse do, but there's only like 4 bosses in the game if you only count those guys & the giants cap off the first area of the game.

[@A88mph]

The first boss a Ocarina of Time is good at foreshadowing how, even when you do the right thing, things are still going to end poorly, at first.

[@TengoSuenho]

I think that first bosses on Octopath Traveler are pretty interesting for the fact that there are 8 first bosses. No only that, but they must be prepares to figh against a player that can have anything between 1 to 4 party memembers between 8 differents optionsm all of that while setting the tone of a particular character story. Some do this better, some worse, but in general I think that all of them do a decent job

[@crabstronaut9395]

glad someone mentioned octopath! it’s not perfect, but i think they did a good job with the bosses

[@ShycoWar]

Of these eight first bosses, I feel that Helgenish is the strongest, at least when it comes to the story. Easily the most cathartic to take down, and a pretty symbolic way to free Primrose from the shackles of her current lifestyle so she can finally set out on her journey. On the gameplay side, it would probably be a tie between the Guardian of the First Flame for its "trial" mechanic (although it's not as interesting if Ophilia isn't alone), or the Blotted Viper for demanding that you make good use of Alfyn's Rehabilitate and Concoct abilities, lest you find yourself unable to keep up with the constant poisoning of your entire party.

[@Folutu]

Gameplay-wise, all of those first chapter bosses also teaches you how you can increase the damage done by breaking them, and how breaking a boss can let you avoid powerful attacks that they're preparing to do, which are two central mechanics to the game's enemies.

[@lukebytes5366]

@@Folutu also the fact many of them utilize your given starting characters abilities to teach you how they work. -aflyn's boss teaches you more about his apothecary skills than just healing -olberic's boss teaches you about his level slash since there are two enemies behind the boss -cyrus and ophelia's bosses require you to use their magic, since the minions are resistant to weapons.

[@Folutu]

And to faciliate that, they are weak against at least one of the weaknesses that the character associated with them has access to.

[@OneGamer2EnvyThemAll]

I'd say that the first Axel fight in KH CoM and Re:CoM counts as fulfilling both mechanical and story purposes, with the story part to a lesser degree. He's the first boss to have his own visible deck, including using Sleights and Item cards, and ignoring Unknown from KH1 (an optional boss that wasn't even present outside of Final Mix), he's the very first Organization XIII member you fight in the series (of many). He also stresses the point of trying to Card Break Sleights rather than dodge through them, as his Fire Wall Sleight is completely unavoidable otherwise. Although you immediately fight him after the very cutscene he's introduced, he has an EXTREMELY significant presence in the KH story moving forward from there on, not to mention his rematch later in the story counts as one of the penultimate bosses.

[@edgeklinge6975]

you can dodge roll through his firewall btw

[@OneGamer2EnvyThemAll]

@@edgeklinge6975 I've replayed Re:CoM upwards of 5 times and have learned how to dodge through / avoid every move to the best of my ability, including the entirety of Vexen and Marluxia's movesets, consistently. You cannot Dodge Roll through Fire Wall. I mean, even if you could and I've been wrong all these years, at the very least no new players would be able to figure out that much on their own and do it repeatedly, thus its status as a Sleight that forces new players to Card Break it or take unavoidable damage holds.

[@edgeklinge6975]

@@OneGamer2EnvyThemAll nah, u can dodge roll through the firewall. And you can also just run in circle for Vexen's ice needles and dodge roll in time for his freeze. If you played it 5 times, i've played like 11 times in my childhood collecting every card possible including all the organization 13, two becomes one and stuff but that's not the case here.

[@ZenoDLC]

@@OneGamer2EnvyThemAll I'm not sure about Re:CoM, but you are able to do so in CoM Not that it's easy as you have to do a double input for the dodge roll and the flames are basically almost as big as how far you can roll, but yeah you should always be packing zeroes on the back of your deck just in case a boss is coming

[@OneGamer2EnvyThemAll]

@@edgeklinge6975 Okay, I guess I am wrong. Maybe I'll lab out Fire Wall dodge during a replay. But I also already knew about all of Vexen's attacks, and I don't recall ever stating or implying that Vexen had unavoidable moves.

[@Papapaya101]

Another really weird thing about Fireman in battle network transmission is that you can slide under his legs, something that in every other megaman game would get you hit

[@larsnyman2455]

This one goes out to Metal Gear RAY The kind of boss who’d be the final boss of any other game in the series, but is reduced to scrap by Raiden in the opening chapter

[@agoodguy8754]

RULES OF NATURE!!!

[@larsnyman2455]

@@agoodguy8754 AND THEY RUN WHEN THE SUN COMES UP

[@amaximus224]

@@larsnyman2455 WITH THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE!

[@larsnyman2455]

@@amaximus224 ALIVE

[@amnot9958]

@@larsnyman2455 FOR A WHILE!

[@ventarmadness9692]

Somehow when I saw the thumbnail I somehow thought it said What's makes a great Girl Boss and when I noticed Girahim my mind still thought yeah that fits

[@kingoftropes922]

Gonna put out Minatour from SMT 4. Yeah, you could agrue he's not the REAL first boss, but he's the first one to actually but your nose to the grindstone on the game's mechanics and is still very early on in the game. He hits hard and makes use of every tool the game gives you and if you can't do the same you're gonna be SOL even if you grind. You have to fuse demons to take advantage of his weaknesses and nullify his strengths, chose correct dialogue options during negotiations to boost yourself up, and be able to tough out some intense and maybe just a touch unfair RNG before you're allowed to continue the game. It teaches you from this point on the game is expecting a lot from you, but once you know what you're doing its more than possible to overcome and the best way to prove you are capable of that is a trial by fire...errr, ice.

[@Esenin472]

"I'LL END IT THUS"

[@XrayTheMyth23]

Wait I don't remember who is ACTUALLY the first boss? I only remember minotaur, god do I remember minotaur...

[@matteste]

Actually no, I would say he is an awful example. I would say Forneus is a better example of a first boss. Minotaur is just a dice roll on whether you can beat him, regardless if you are a beginner or a veteran.

[@jimmyd1831]

@@matteste Nah I 100% disagree with this, the Minotaur is hard but if you prepare properly he's more than manageable. SMT IV was my first mainline SMT game and he sure as hell kicked my ass on a first playthrough, but on my second playthrough I got him first try. Of course there's some luck (it's a turn based JRPG, luck's always a factor, even if minor), but with a couple defence and agility buffs, healing skills and some ice skills, he's not so bad. I actually love how difficult he is because it teaches you how to handle bosses in a memorable way- he's a tutorial without explicitly being a tutorial. That's just my opinion though.

[@matteste]

@@jimmyd1831 There is next to no counter play available against him. Most of the resources you need to be effective against him you get first after he is beaten. Instead of using elements, he uses physical attacks which has no counter this early. Buffs and debuffs are near useless as they are both difficult to come by AND costly in terms of MP, meaning you will be very limited in their use in a battle. Also, the fight is heavily luck based as whoever you get as a partner can pretty much decide whether you win or loose before the fight even starts, and that on top his high crit rate, and a special move that both hits hard and hits randomly. This mixed with the press turn system and the new smirk mechanic means that even seasoned players will struggle against him as he gets action after action. And as a final insult, compared against Forneus or Matador, Forneus has only one turn icon baseline while Matador, a later boss, has two. Minotaur who is the first boss of the game has no less than three, meaning that if the dice rolls are not in your favor he can decimate your crew at a moments notice and there is nothing you can do about it.

[@juanrodriguez9971]

Ridley as a first boss in super Metroid is an excellent boss that you are not intended to win because you are not even going to die, the boss escaping with the treasure (in this case the last Metroid) and leaving you with a station about to self destruct is a great way of telling the player he is too weak right now, making Ridley's next battle feel more epic (in case the playera remembers that flying lizard from the begining) since you are way stronger, it's great for both narrative and mechanics.

[@ethanrabbitts9906]

The first case of ace Attorney has to be one of my favourite 1st levels of all time.

[@indecision6326]

I personally think Final Fantasy X's first battle, which culminated with the boss Sinspawn Ammes, made for an interesting way both to teach the player about CTB and the Overdrive system all in one go without being able to kill you, which makes it easier to avoid re-watching the intro.

[@morrisginzburg1978]

First bosses are usually my favourites in every game I play because they always remind me of why I kept playing beyond the first "chapter". I usually play up to that point of every game I try, and a first boss is a deciding point for me. I remember getting the joke of dungeon bosses in my first zelda (a link to the past) and loving figuring out that I had to use the magic hammer. As a puzzle loving child, and now adult, I felt like a genius, and it solidified my love for not only that game, but future zelda games as well. Loved the video!

[@ghetis396]

You mentioned around 6:00 how Ghirahim is meant to confirm that the player has the basics of the game down, and I think there's another "first" boss that perfectly fits this category: Blade Wolf from MGR. While MG Ray is technically the first boss, Blade Wolf is the first boss of an actual level in the game, and his fight is essentially just a "do you know how to block or parry? Ya better learn". The best part is that when you replay the mission on Revengance mode (assuming you unlocked it by doing the story rather than inputting the Konami code on the title screen), he gets nearly one-shot by a parry, meaning that you don't have to go through the skill check again and can move on to the more interesting bosses

[@Lightning-2153]

Every Girahim fight is amazing, and his fighting style perfectly reflects what he's thinking and feeling at that point in the story.

[@starky4352]

Matador from SMT Nocturne is an amazing boss fight! It’s not the first one, but it’s the first important one. Shin Megami Tensei is known for its difficulty and this boss reflects that. The boss teaches the player the importance of buffing your parties stats and debuffing his, and that those moves are the most important moves in the entire game. It also teaches the player the importance of you and your demons weaknesses, if you don’t pay attention you’ll see the game over screen over and over and over again. It’s a great boss that teaches you how the rest of the game will be like, buff and debuff or you’re fucked.

[@JennyTheNerdBat]

I always felt kind of opposite with Matador - it COULD be a good wake-up boss for beginners, but since the game doesn't showcase nor demand buff/debuff mechanics up to that point, it comes off more as a brick wall with an unintuitive solution for players not familiar with the franchise. I'd argue that more people learned about stat boosting from memes and frustrated internet threads than they did from fighting this boss blind.

[@MythicTF2]

I tried playing Nocturne when the remake came out (I never played an SMT game before). I like to go into games blind and try to look up as little as possible and honestly the boss was just infuriating. It genuinely felt like no matter what I did I would just lose because up until that point random encounters were fair or easy if I knew the enemy's weaknesses, only struggling a bit when fighting the manta-rays in the sewers because I had a bit of a fire heavy party at that moment. Then that boss comes out and wipes my party within a few moves, forcing me to lose the 30 minutes it took to get to him. My next thought was just "Okay, I need to get better demons so my weaknesses aren't just constantly exploited" but the problem in doing that was as a new player.. idk the weaknesses of things off the top of my head so it quickly became "trial and error". With the Save/Load system of the game (being unable to save anywhere) it made it even more frustrating with the fact that I'd have to grind, spend 5-10 minutes to go to a save point while hoping that the things I'm fighting along the way don't kill me, just to spend another 5-10 minutes to get back to that boss fight. If I was able to save/load to right before the fight to "trial and error" my way with weaknesses it would've alleviated the frustration a lot since I wouldn't have lost tons of progress constantly (like any exp I gained on my way to the boss fight or any extra things I missed on my first trek to that area). It eventually culminated in me just... giving up on the game. That fight was too difficult for how little was actually being explained in the game and it was only made worse by the archaic save system the game used. The opening sequence in Nocturne was great and it made me hooked on it and made me want to explore heavily and see every detail of the world but that single boss fight made me want to not play the game which is a shame. "DPS Checks" are fine but if they're made too difficult without really giving the player the proper tools to deal with it, it becomes a nuisance.

[@thecunninlynguist]

I love good first bosses...and bless you for adding in one of my favorite franchises, ace attorney

[@Chris-jx4ij]

Yeah I remember that first boss from Megaman Network Transmission. It was so brutal, and I only beat it after coming back years later. A big part of the problem is not just how hard he hits, but also the way his attacks work. When he does that flamethrower it will go to the end of the room, and you can't just duck under it like it looks like you should. It also lasts for long enough that if you try to slide underneath, you'll pop back up and get hit.

[@papaspoon1550]

Why shadow of the colossus is my favorite game is because they give you the exposition and closes the door behind you - go find the first boss, without knowing much about the control scheme it slowly introduces the controls as you go and need them. It builds up by showing you the first colossus; and even though in any other game design this likely wouldn't work, SOTC hits you with awe at the colossus and that's the big hook and sinker

[@EvilParagon4]

I love Death from Dante's Inferno as a first boss. You face literally death himself at the start of the game, and you not only kill him but take his scythe which you use for the rest of the game. It sets up a lot of things about how the game works too, so it comes with mechanical good factor and cool factor. It's pretty awesome.

[@nemtudom5074]

Being able to toss around a skyscraper sized mech while an insanely over the top and amazing electronic metal track is playing in the background

[@Aquanex2]

Man, Ghirahim is my favorite Zelda character by far. That fight is just badass. Love how he takes the weapon away from you if you don't know what you're doing.

[@Game_Hero]

From NiGHTS : Journey of Dreams to freaking Megaman Battle Network Transmission, this channel best strenght is how he uses a variety of games and not just the typical games used in restrospectives, allowing it to be a celebration and understanding of game design and video games at large, including in its lesser known corners and most unique titles.

[@vrataski_]

new design doc video, happy day

[@Scummoner]

Could we get game names appear when they're first shown? :) Especially for those not talked about but used a gameplay footage which are not in the description.

[@Ramsey276one]

Many channels need to keep this mind Successful games are still not known by everyone automatically. Never mind Indies!

[@npcmcishark7379]

The spider is called Spider

[@Kochen51]

I really love the Ace Attorney inclusion

[@justsomeannoyingredpanda]

One neat detail about the False Knight that i think should be given some attention is that almost all of its mechanics gave been introduced before. One of his attacks is a huge leap in the air, and while you could say its just a slow telegraph, you coul also tie it to the leaping husks, which also leap, then attack as they land. Another aspect that we were taught beforehand is the falling rocks. Those are extremely similar to the stalactites we have been learning to dodge so far, and if you find out you can hit the rocks, you may find out you can do the same to the stalactites. One last attack is the shockwave, which is from the large guard husks which have a move that creates a shockwave in either direction. This is also used in the False Knight fight and it has the same purpose of making sure yiu have learned what has been introduced since you started playing.

[@somethingironic8741]

I think the first colossus in shadow of the colossus is such a great introduction. It shows an opening cutscene that shows just how the boss towers over you. The fight itself isn't to hard but it's integral because it shows how weak points and creativity, will open up opportunities which is an extremely important lesson for the central gameplay. Even the design works it's nothing to crazy but it contains many of the design conventions of the game. For these reasons the first colossus is an amazing introduction to the tone, the gameplay, and the colossi.

[@notben73]

I am a big fan of the first boss in Shadow of the Colossus. Reinforces the idea that you won't get anywhere without a plan, you can only hold on for so long, watch your enemy's movement, and the environment is your ally. Once you can get those juicy stabs in and finish the Colossus, you feel accomplished, and then quickly reminded you really have no idea what you're getting into as the black spirit tentacle things dive into your character and you pass out. Also, so glad I wasn't the only one on the struggle bus with Fireman in Network Transmission lol

[@AuraOfANobody]

Ha, having finally gotten off my ass and played Persona 5 Royal for the past few months, I just knew the moment you mentioned story-focused first bosses that Kamoshida would be in here. Even aside from establishing the general setting and loop of how the game plays out, Atlus really did a good job making him absolutely detestable, huh?

[@kaner9775]

Minotaur from SMTIV is one of my favorite exemples of first bosses. You get out of a reasonably easy dungeon, to get your ass beaten. But the gimmick is that, for this boss, you don’t really need to grind, all of the tools to beat it are available from start, you’re the one that’s going to organize it to finally beat it.

[@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas]

Hoy

[@Confuzed54]

The first boss of Skylanders Spyro’s Adventure, much like the game itself, is criminally underrated. While it’s nothing special gameplay-wise, the tone and setup of the fight is phenomenal. Not only is the transition startling, with the player being swallowed whole by the Leviathan you spent the entire level avoiding, but Kaos is legitimately intimidating. You already got one of the eight Elemental Sources, and he won’t let you get another. Kaos now sees you as a threat, and one that needs eliminating. And if that wasn’t enough, the fight is topped off with one of the most intense boss themes I’ve ever heard in a game. Just one of the many reasons the game kicks-ass.

[@mleppp1546]

My favorite first boss is The Chain from the game Furi. The game is a boss rush mostly focused on combat, but with a wonderful and enigmatic story tied in. When we first meet the protagonist, we open to The Chain monologuing about how "You were a weapon. A bringer of death. And now you're nothing" as he repeatedly slaps you in the face. His other dialogue consistently shows he's sadist who only wants to hurt you. It makes beating him feel so worth-while storywise, and sets off so many questions for the plot. Furi is known mostly for it's difficulty. It's by far the most challenging game I've ever played. The Chain was a significant increase in difficulty for me, especially because this is the first time the player has any experience with the controls. Going into that fight, you're not expected to win on the first go around, and that's okay. Furi is repetition done right throughout the entire game, and it's really drilled home in the first fight. Having said that, some of the ques for what you're supposed to do in that beginning fight can feel clunky and jarring, especially because it's never like that again. It can come off as heavy handed, although because there are so many variations in the controls, it's understandable that it would end up that way. One thing to remember is that Furi is a very niche game. It's very divisive both in people who love it and people who hate it. I highly suggest it, but if it doesn't look like your game, that's perfectly fine. Thanks for reading this big old essay of me rambling about a game I like, appreciate it

[@RainbowUnicorn.-.]

I think Whispy Woods is also a good first (well in most cases, though he is a second boss a few times) boss in the Kirby series, both mechanical and story wise. Whispy establishes the boss mechanics of the game he is in whether it be multi-stage, scrolling across the screen, or using a 3D platform. Though he has as much introduction and development as a mechanical boss within the games Whispy has been a boss within the series since the first game, meaning that he has had a lot of development and has become ingrained as an important reoccurring character throughout the series. Through this, Whispy helps establish familiarity in the world that is being built and also gives the player a clue towards what type of threat they will eventually face.

[@Joyy_Da]

My favourite first boss is the ending tutorial boss of NieR:Automata. Not only an incredible spectacle but also a fun challenge that teaches you how to use your arsenal effectively. It also helps advance the story in an organic way

[@ThePumpdog]

The parasite queen from the first metroid prime game really set the scope of the game and showed fans what the future of metroid looked like!

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Mechanically it's pretty boring tho

[@Jarory1]

Oh one last great first boss: Kingpin in Spiderman (the insomniac one). That boss fight does a great job of filtering out bad habits really early one and sets up the story.

[@ArloMathis]

100%. Playing the opening on max difficulty taught me so much that when I decided to start over after the first construction site just wasn't fun, on the easier mode I felt so skilled.

[@TeaquestSagas]

I always love your design docs. Not only do they give me a valid feedback when or if I do these things right in my hobby project. They also add valuable information and other aspects to the subjects. Stuff that I didn't do instinctively and I can now keep an eye for in the future.

[@VulpineFox7]

False Knight is an incredible first boss, and the same game also has an incredible second boss, Hornet. Hornet acts as sort of a skillcheck, a great role for a second boss, and a hell of a fun one too. She is quite different than the False Knight, with her small size and quick movements, testing players in a new way. Its harder to heal in this fight, but there are still opportunities, making gaging when to heal an important and intense aspect of the fight. Hornet moves in a way that makes you flow quite well once you understand all the little tricks of dodging, attacking and healing. The difficulty of this boss makes it more intense and hight stakes. All of this is imporoved by the incredible music that plays during the fight. In addition, her rematch fight is tough, but at that point in the game, gives you an easier time, while still giving a challenge, showing your growth quite well.

[@tristanhallett4793]

I love the Eye Of Cthulhu as a first boss in Terraria, a great challenge, sets the tone for the games future bossfights, and acts as a bit of a barrier as he will summon himself once you reach a certain power level

[@sasin2715]

Also required since voodoo demons will not spawn unless you beat EOC

[@Stirdix]

Shoutout to Puzzlequest's Dugog - if you don't take into account his ability to auto-take extra turns when matching gold, you will almost assuredly lose. This encourages you (if you haven't learned the lesson already) to look not only at the board in light of your own abilities, but also in light of the abilities of your opponent.

[@Rycluse]

I've always loved first bosses that are microcosms of the game as a whole. You've already gone over story and gameplay, but there's also design, such as with music. My first time playing Hollow Knight, the music is what really struck me with False Knight, with that somber yet exciting string solo in the forefront. It clued me in early that would have a sountrack right up my alley

[@The_Holy_Wooomy]

One of my favourite first bosses is the Dino Piranha from Super Mario Galaxy, its so much fun but not hard. Super Mario Galaxy is amazing at presenting mechanics seamlessly, and here is no different. Prior to the boss, you’ve been hitting these weird, stretchy, plant-like bulbs, so when you land on the egg and see its tail appear, you know instantly that you’re meant to hit it. It’s actually very similar to King Bob-Omb and Bowser in Super Mario 64, where you have to get behind hurt the boss, but without having to grab a very small part of its back. And the fight gets progressively harder, with Dino Piranha getting faster and swinging it’s tail more wildly. All in all, definitely a great fun fight

[@KenBladehart]

Etrian Odyssey V's first boss? Anyone? The boss really screw you over if you dont explore the map It really put you in a mindset to explore every single corner of the map and really be careful with everything, which older Etrian Odyssey games kinda fails at

[@skyhighlander6447]

Always glad to see some love for Etrian Odyssey!

[@Rean.Schwarzer]

Etrian Odyssey has a lot of great bosses, but V's first boss really is fantastic. You can make the fight easier by properly mapping the area and using the environment to your advantage (which plays into the mapping as a core gameplay component), it practically mandates you to have a good understanding of defensive options (even something as simple as using Defend on a turn where you know its big attack is coming), and rewards you for thinking creatively and bypassing its ailment immunity by inflicting it on the individual "pieces" of it before they reassemble. Amalgolem is such a brilliant first boss.

[@KenBladehart]

@@skyhighlander6447 Im actually having an Etrian Odyssey withdrawal. Its been like 4 years since a new entry...

[@appelofdoom8211]

@@KenBladehart still waiting on etrian odyssey untold 3.

[@skyhighlander6447]

@@KenBladehart I have yet to even finish some of the games because of my giant backlog, but it’s been ages since that teaser… maybe they’re struggling finding a way to translate the mapping-focused gameplay to the switch or other systems?

[@chrishale7480]

Depending on if you consider Cerberus as the first boss of DMC3 or the Hell Vanguard I think it’s handled pretty damn well and sets the tone of the game.

[@miserablepumpkin9453]

Ah, just when I started a new project with bosses! Thank you!

[@klooj1174]

The ace attorney section was very intriguing and interesting, other games was intriguing too but you really did great when you were describing the first boss of ace attorney , and thanks for the good content, keep going ❤

[@StarScapesOG]

First boss from metroid prime one was epic! The massive parasite scrambles down the reactor and towering over you as it screams it's fury! Helping you practice some basic skills that are key to gameplay! And the build up... hallways littered with dead space pirates, the deteriorating frigate... that game was a masterpiece!

[@genarovargas5661]

Asylum Demon from Dark Souls 1 is a great starting boss. You start with nothing else than your armor and a sword hilt that doesn't deal more damage than one of your punches. After reading some messages explaining some basic mechanics, you enter a large room. You read a message that indicates you to run away, and then Asylum Demon appears. Most players will unsuccessfully try to face it here, however the last message is positioned looking towards a door that opens as Asylum Demon appears. You escape, continue, get weapons and heals, and also learn a bit more complex mechanics like dodging. The message right before the fog gate teaches you to do a plunging attack. You enter the arena, and are in an elevated platform over Asylum Demon. If you take too long, Asylum Demon will jump and smash the platform, likely killing you. But if you do a plunge attack as you were instructed, you will remove between 1/2 and 1/3 of its health. Then the actual fight begins, and the boss has slow, very telegraphed moves that you can see from miles away, and also your weapon is decently strong so you will take it down in no time. Additionally, trying to block its attacks will break your guard, but if you dodge, you will get some free hits in. The boss teaches you: -If you're too weak, return later when you're stronger -Learn the mechanics -Use your environment in your favor -All enemies have telegraphed moves -Dodging bosses is better than blocking them And that's why Asylum Demon is a great starting boss.

[@RobotHRH]

DJ Subatomic Supernova as a first boss in No Straight Roads is amazing. Interesting character, sets the mechanics in place, and starts the story off rather well

[@FizzleBurger]

I'd love to see a video analyzing how to appropriately escalate from a first boss to a second boss. How do you make it seem more threatening without just giving it a bigger health bar? How do you add more narrative intensity without making that trend of rising intensity feel predictable?

[@ratio1037]

The first asterisk fight of bravely default 2 makes sure you default properly to get off as much damage or you'll be outhealed

[@finnkoepke2250]

In Transistor, Sybil is a phenomenal first boss. Definitely intimidating when you meet her first, but not so hard once you understand the flow of the game. The music is also great.

[@regal677]

I really like your videos, design doc. You inspired me to start make games and take them more seriously and getting to understand them. Thank you so much!

[@Mega11683]

Dark souls asylum demon is a great first boss, as it forces you into fight or fight with barely any time passing from starting your save. If you fight it right away, you'll reap rewards early. Should you flee and grab your weapon and shield and get the Estus flasks, you'll have a much easier time fighting it and will be able to use the plunge attack if you desire. It also really helps you realize how difficult the game will get and reminds you that you're playing a horror game, something you might forget if you get too agitated with the enemies. You can even see it moving around from behind the door if you go for your shield first TL;DR the asylum demon from dark souls is a great first boss in terms of gameplay and lore and makes the game sorta feel alive

[@bulbasaur5995]

Not having it completable in literally 10 seconds *cough, cough, Sonic Colors*

[@smartguy-lx9im]

Yeah, a couple of Cyan Lasers to the eye and it's DOWN.

[@HewleyxAngel]

An interesting pair of bosses I’ve dealt with of late were Oliver from Code Vein and Matador from SMT3. Oliver was the first significant hurdle of combat in the game and genuinely forced me to rethink my loadout to fight. While also being a good taste of a story boss as you team up with him to go through the first dungeon together, only for him to get injured and you have to leave him behind, which ratchets up the combat difficulty and adds to a feeling of tension as you try to hurry back to him, only at the end to see he’s fallen victim to the ‘miasma’ the other characters have mentioned. I was actually upset I couldn’t save him. And while I know Matador isn’t really a first boss, as you fight several fairly early on, most of the early bosses can be brute forced by just hitting hard enough. Matador is the only mandatory Fiend fight and forces the player to engage with the mechanics, even if they opt not to follow the True Demon Ending story route. You have to debuff him and bring a party that can deal with his elemental attacks. It basically asks the player to throw out any preconceived notions they may have brought with them from other RPGs about buffs and elemental alignments being useless or optional. Also he can be a valuable early-mid game party member with good stats, no weaknesses, and a good move pool.

[@egorkvyatkovskiy6624]

I don't think it's my absolute favorite first boss, but I've gotta give a shoutout to Project Moon, indie devs that made Library of Ruina, for actually managing to make two first bosses (as the player decides which one to fight first) that work really well in both mechanics and story. Heavy spoilers for LoR, obviously. The Love Town fight ensures that the player knows how the crucial game mechanics of redirecting attacks and different damage types work, as you're basically forced to only clash against specific cards, while ignoring others, as well as forcing you to use damage types the enemies aren't immune to. The second act, the actual fight with Tomerry, also ensures the player can build solid decks and prioritize the more threatening foes. Story vise it kickstarts one of the most interesting storylines in the game imo and manages to create an amazingly disturbing atmosphere for the actual fight. (There's a reason we don't talk about Love Town) Not to mention the incredible soundtrack for that specific fight. The other "first" boss is E.G.O Phillip. It has a mechanic where Philip switches between defensive and offensive stances, forcing the player to either skip turns or try to break his block during the defensive phase, while clashing with him in the offensive phase. The player basically has no choice but to either make a strong deck or work around the mechanics of the fight. It also kicks off a very large portion of the plot. Overall I really appreciate those bosses for not just being mechanically interesting, testing the players of their knowledge of the game, but also being very important to the story. (Also I really like Project Moon and their games and want you to check them out, LoR if you like deck building card games, LC if you like management games:))

[@spiritbaki108]

One of my favourite first boss is Monstro from TBOI. Not because of his first encounter, but because of later ones. When I first encountered him, in my first run, I thought he was hard (not very hard, more like challenging). But as I kept killing him, I noticed that bosses usually have set patterns that make for an equally fair, challenging and fun fight if you know their patterns (except for bloat tho, they can rot in hell), so I think Monstro is the boss that "taught" me about attack patterns, that knowing each bosses' attack pattern is the key to success in this game

[@Wit2200]

Toriel would be a good first boss if your progress with spamming *spare was more noticeable. The dialogue does change, but it's very same-ish and since you have to do spare her 20 times, a lot of people just give up halfway through. If they end up killing her and then learn sparing would work but they had to be patient, they'll might feel frustrated with the whole mechanic. Comparing to Papyrus, he keeps talking getting less and less sure about capturing you and his dialogue box starts mentioning he's getting tired as well, both of those telling you you'll just have to outlast him. Also the game makes a lot of jokes like "Papyrus dabs something behind his ear / Papyrus realises he doesn't have ears" making you a little less impatient.

[@azuarc]

" If they end up killing her and then learn sparing would work but they had to be patient, they'll might feel frustrated with the whole mechanic. Comparing to Papyrus" - I had this exact reaction. Papyrus was literally the only boss I spared on my first run. I tried to spare Toriel and it seemed like I wasn't making progress, so I quit. She also...died unexpectedly quickly.

[@MartinPurathur]

I think a chunk of players ARE supposed to kill Toriel the first time through. But the dialogue changes could be a little faster, I agree

[@clairity266]

@@MartinPurathur This is actually the exact point that made me fall in love with the game. SPOILERS When I fought Toriel, the first approach I took was trying to talk with her. It became clear very quickly that this wasn't going anywhere, so I tried something else. The game calls out early on that getting a monster to low HP can let you spare them, so I tried weakening her... with predictable results. That "victory" felt absolutely like a failure, so I immediately closed the game and reloaded my last save. This time, I just stubbornly spammed the Spare button, and got my good ending. And then Flowey called me out for save scumming. It's a little detail that a good percentage of the players will never see, but it really drove home the point that this is not your average RPG.

[@Irishwillmooney]

I agree; I tried following what the game hinted at in my first run but didn't think sparing was having an effect. I ended up killing her and thinking the spare ideas was more of a gimmick than actually important since the first boss still needed killing. When I realized how wrong I was, I went through the 5 stages of grief for tutorial and felt very very frustrated at the game for telling me more clearly I could spare her just like you suggested! Haha! So I agree it could be frustrating for players and could be improved but its also made my following runs much more special knowing as I know more about how to solve each encounter and I think helped with my love of the game once I got over that initial frustration.

[@Salsmachev]

I think that's kind of the point. Undertale doesn't sugarcoat nonviolence. It teaches you through your own regret that nonviolence is difficult and requires radical belief and creative problem solving, and even goes out of its way to make you realise you can't take back your mistakes.

[@Tomrash]

I think the first bosses of both Bravely Default and Bravely Default 2 are great mechanical bosses. In both cases, you fight a team consisting of White Mage (Healer) and a Tanky Melee Guy. This setup forces you to make use of the Brave/Default mechanics to get past the Whit Mages healing. And in the case of BD2, the symmetry to the BD1 boss pair helps highlight key mechanical differences for returning players. Those boss fights also have great mechanical payoff for beating them, as you unlock their classes (as you generaly do in BD, as also demonstrated by those encountes) and thus get 2 key roles for your party filled at once.

[@TheKarishi]

Some of the ones you showed and kind of mentioned offhand deserved a little more time in this video. The story (or, more commonly because it's less work, environmental) boss who probably wrecks you, but CAN be beaten, is a really interesting variation on both the mechanical and plot expectations. If you can't possibly win because it's scripted that way, it may be a boss but it's not really a boss FIGHT - just a set piece. But there are a few where they left in the option of winning and even wrote proper story consequences to reward the elite players who pull it off.

[@jasonreed7522]

Those are an interesting category of bosses. The "Run Away" as the intended response boss is also hard to pull off because not all players can recognize that they are not supposed to fight "God Himself" as the second boss when the first boss was an Ogre and they are level 3. Its also always a pleasant surprise when you are alowed to win the unwinnable fight way before you are supposed to. There is also the varient of "you are supposed to lose now" where the boss is basically a cutscene to force you to go gather the McGuffins and have sweet revenge later.

[@mikeoxbrown7643]

As a first boss, Kuze in Yakuza 0 is a great one. Really teaches you how to dodge and go for the back, as well as story significance in being Kaz’s first hurdle.

[@REXanadu]

Me: Kinda want to take a break from FF14 *opens video, hears Stormblood boss fight theme* Me: It never ends, does it?

[@whim165]

The first boss(es) of Bravely Default. It really set the tone for me of how fun these bosses can be, but also intimidating. And besides that, teach well the Brave and Default mechanic, and how jobs interfere with these two abilitys. But to be far, I love all bosses (except the ones that repeat) from this game, so it's not a surprise for me

[@Elfos64]

I want to see you do a video on the parts JRPGs outside of combat (like in towns and overworld) and what makes them good.

[@Ramsey276one]

I second the motion

[@ancientdarkmagic1409]

I can't really tell which is my favorite first boss but i can recognize the joy of over coming the first major obstacle of the game. They are magical because you are in your first levels and when you fight the next boss you can see the progress of your character level. Now in DND, sometimes the best boss is just the first big monster that you slay at the end of the dungeon or it could truly be a heavy story driven one by fighting a important antagonist that sets the stage for what's to come on the campaign.

[@writer747]

I'm curious what you'd think off first bosses where the game is in a flashforward (like, at the end of a tutorial where you have all of your future abilities) and then takes you back to the present where you start fresh.

[@ruolbu]

I will have to go with Way of the Samurai 1 here. The game is an old PS2 Samurai 'simulator'. The fantasy is that you are a wandering samurai and it is up to you how you interact with the people you meet on your travel. The game is short and has a very wide tree of different branches. The gimmick is, that you can escalate nearly every situation that started out peacefully into combat and your rewards can be your opponents weapon and the attack moves that come with it. The other gimmick is that if you die, you lose all weapons you have in you inventory currently. So the game playes with risk and reward. Since you can play the game very peacefully, there is no definite first boss. But there are nameless NPCs and then there are named characters. The first screen immediately throws several such characters at you who are in a confrontation. You can walk past that scene, watch it develop or engage with it in different ways. One option here is to attack the bad guy, a named character with a distinct look, and hooo boy will he kill you. Seriously, the game immediately puts you in a situation that triggers either your hero complex or maybe your cockiness, and if you fight him as a new player, you will most likely lose. The fight is fair and easily winnable for experienced players, but newbies are lured into nearly certain defeat. And that is the point I believe. Throughout the game you can always die and each decision to start a fight should be well considered. The game teaches you that your actions matter, that there are no pulled punches and you can just like that end up at the start screen. To be fair, they don't dark souls you that hard. There is a story progressing option to lose the fight, you could also just flee. And as you replay the game and face this character each time you will discover each option naturally. That too teaches you about the branching nature of the game.

[@brishanf4526]

Oh yeah I remember that! I wish they would make a modern gen way of the samurai game and localize it for the us