WHAT MAKES IT WORK? #18 "How a Dial indicator Works" tubalcain

In this video, I take an indicator apart to see how it works.
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[@warrenfromga9945]

Mr. Pete, you really are a great teacher. Thanks for all you teach us viewers/subscribers.

[@HolzMichel]

HI Mr. Pete, that Keilpart dial indicator is from Germany. the company (KS) interestingly enough is still in business. They're located in Suhl. i have a collection of their micrometers. they went thru quite tumultuous times after the war and re-unification. during the years of the GDR the company was state owned and was returned to private ownership upon re-unification, they are now a part of the Steinmeyer group. the dial indicator you have is a piece of history that you should consider restoring, and as you correctly observed, it's is from 1944. the "Keilpart" is part of the logo the original founder Friedrich Keilpart put on his products. he founded the company in 1878, another observation: the rack is a thread, you can also tell that by the slanted teeth of the pinion gear that is driven by the rack thanks for going the extra mile and showing us the internal workings of the dial indicators

[@sophiaabbott4036]

+HolzMichel Thanks for the history!

[@reiniertl]

Hysteresis is well used in this case. Is a general concept used to refer to non-linearities that systems exhibit, like in this case backlash. I'm an electrical engineer and can tell you that the concept applied to motors and transformers was taken from mechanical engineering. So the concept is older than you might think. So keep using it in the future whenever you refer to moving from point A to B and back to A doesn't takes you to A.

[@roberthorner8494]

VERY INFORMATIVE. NOW I DON'T HAVE TO TAKE MINE APART TO SEE HOW IT WORKS. THANKS MR. PETE.

[@grizzlydan8]

+ROBERT HORNER + Just what I was thinking. I only have one and wouldn't want to mess that up. I enjoyed Tubalcain's video as usual.

[@1musicsearcher]

I was showing my nephew different indicators and the small values on the face. When we were done he asked if I had one that measured in 16ths of an inch. Not wanting to be stumped, I pulled out a tape measure. Clever kid.

[@Lactuca]

Those nylon gears are stronger than aluminum but more importantly are self lubricating. Nylon gears like that wont oxidize or seize like metal ones. very good in applications where they don't need to deal with much torque

[@Daledavispratt]

Great video Mr. Pete! I've always wanted to take those screws out and look inside some of my indicators but never had the nerve...living vicariously through you is indeed a pleasure. Thanks.

[@PeterWMeek]

Hysteresis is just the name for when the output lags the input differently depending on the direction of the input. It could be motion (as in these indicators) or the buildup and polarity of a magnetic field in a transformer. It's from the Greek word for lateness or being behind. Great video; it saves me the risk of pulling apart one of my own indicators, and maybe getting dirt in it.

[@jlbelshan]

Term is also used in structural stress analysis. When a load is applied and then removed from a part, plastic deformation (if it occurs) prevents the stress-strain curve from returning to 0,0.

[@MrUbiquitousTech]

Excellent as always Mr. Pete, thanks for another great video!

[@lightninluke64]

the numbers on that first indicator, are where when it was assembled and fit, there marked to keep all the parts fit together. another words, they won't get mixed up. like that one said "32" this frame plate goes with this arm support. I like your videos, thanks. I've been a journeyman tool&die maker, for 20 some years. this whole industry surly changes, thanks again Kenneth sylvester

[@davida1hiwaaynet]

Excellent! I really enjoyed this one. Have used dial gauges many times but haven't had the need to take one apart before. What an amazing precision instrument.

[@grantkopka9090]

Keep this and the myth buster series going! I'm not a machinist so these have more interest to me. I enjoy all your videos either way!

[@kevCarrico]

another AMAZING video filled with great details -- thank you!!

[@dillydallydollcomachineand8246]

Sir thank you for your time . I use the heck out of them now I know how they work . My Best , Tighe

[@Hardturnin]

Very nice and highly informative why? Because you are by far to me the best and most hard-working of all of today's also good teachers who bless us in the trade. I have taken apart busted up ones to see the interior. Once I bought a row inch travel indicator from a guy getting out of the business which always saddened me also.. we have many forces working against good men. Anyway it had a bend in the rod and a noticeable drag and catch. I was proud to see the problem and apply some pressure which fixed the problem. I can not any longer loan my tools as something can happen to damage it. To make it worse all personal precision tolls are to be calibrated by a company who is certified to do that and label it. Th sides were only hearsay!They picked up my 18 inch Berliners this week and I took pictures of what it looked like when I turned them over because the last outfit chipped my carbide face on my 2-3 inch Starrett misc I have had over 20 years no problems. The outfit denied doing it and my company did not fix or replace them. Now I take pictures with my smart phone and will take them to small claims court over the next incident. Not my company but the calibrator one. Others complained also and or man who selected the outfit said our comments bo

[@RGSABloke]

Mr. Pete. My sister worked in the Westclox factory in Scotland for many years. Every time I see one in a movie it brings back fond memories. Regarding hysteresis, I often spoke of this to my dental technology students when describing the time-temperature lag when waiting for reusable hydrocolloid duplicating material set. Another informative, interesting video, many thanks for sharing. Regards from Bonnie Scotland. Joe.

[@mrpete222]

+Joe McIntyre Thanks for watching-there was an EASTCLOX in the orient someplace too

[@thebaron44]

+mrpete222 Do you lament the telling of this 'joke' ?

[@markrainford1219]

My Dad had four Westclox "Big Ben" repeaters sat in a biscuit tin next to his bed. Needless to say he was a stickler for punctuality.

[@Ed_Stoddard]

Absolutely great video. I always wondered what made them work, but was unwilling to tear one down. Thanks as always.

[@gregorywest2029]

The numbers are for matching two items together, match drilled and fitted. Great video. Thanks, Greg

[@chemech]

+Gregory West That, and the Germans (Austrians, Swiss, Swedes, etc.) have this habit of serializing the parts that go into assemblies, such that a repair technician can tell at a glance if a replacement part has been used... This is especially common in military issue firearms... as are units which have been made up from salvaged pieces from several original assemblies.

[@tlbelknap]

I took every shop class that was offered during my public school adventures. Including Home Economics and Auto Tech. Some of my fondest memories and better teachers. I believe my life is better for it. I would take shop classes now if I could find some.

[@cvmikeray2]

Loved this one !! - Thanks Mr Pete !!! Always wanted to look in mine, but did not want to break it LOL !!

[@dietermayr5888]

The Keilpart company was foundet in 1878 by Friedrich Keilpart in Suhl, Germany, producing measuring devices. Dial indicators are in the program since 1888. Today they are Feinmess Suhl GmbH

[@tmcclellandsr2696]

Watching this was like brain candy.. Loved it. Thank you for the post.

[@nodrogawson963]

Very Interesting video.I never thought about backlash in a dial indicator before and use one quite often. I can see why Starrett are very expensive but looks like they are going a bit to" plastic mechanics" as I call it. Thank you for sharing ,your camera work is first class.

[@kevinwillis9126]

loved watching this video.. Thankyou very much for sharing sir....

[@snooker7915]

great vid mr pete precise as always .

[@davidwaker7996]

Thank you for this video. It was very interesting. Now I'm going to go take one of mine apart and see if I can put it back together.

[@bernym4047]

Very well produced video showing some beautiful engineering pieces. Thanks

[@mrpete222]

Thank you very much

[@daki222000]

interesting once again. Thank you for showing me this. cheers.

[@tedfarwell9812]

Thanks, Mr. Pete!

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Another great how it works. If you keep on like this we will know everything and their will be no mystery left in life. =(;-)

[@cameronmaiklem6644]

Great stuff Lyle, Hysteresis, brilliant word, never heard mentioned before among the machinist "Toobers".

[@VeeDubJohn]

This channel is SO interesting!

[@manusudha4269]

Thank you very much for this demo and lecture .

[@noelhenderson700]

Gauge hysteresis is the difference in readings on a gauge or dial between measurements when going up and down the scale. The word is used to describe similar phenomena in other branches of physics. In a gauge backlash is just as good a word.

[@despui]

I hope Mr. Pete will do a test indicator video.

[@nixxonnor]

Nice video. Thanks. Now I will never take my dial indicator apart :)

[@godfreypoon5148]

I come from the transformer side of Hysteresis town. I did a design for a transformer for a switching power supply just recently, and you caught my attention with the words "hysteresis loss". I believe that your use of the word is entirely correct. Basically just a lag when something changes direction, be it magnetic, mechanical or otherwise.

[@sophiaabbott4036]

+Godfrey Poon Interesting-thanks

[@johnkinnane547]

G'day Pete very interesting I fix clocks and the half gear looks a lot like an counting rack for striking,even the spring looks like an escarpment spring in a wrist watch. Thank you very much great vide. Always wanted to Se inside one.. John Tasmania

[@jenniferfairchild6149]

Thanks for this video its very helpful in making my repairs!

[@mrpete222]

👍👍

[@marcmckenzie5110]

Loved this episode. Thanks!

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@xkabedaruhe2956]

Thanks Mr. Pete for this very interesting video. Now the book showed is "Precision Measurement in the Metal Working Industry" if I am not mistaken. Does anyone know if it is available as a PDF?

[@mwganson]

I'd be interested in seeing a followup with the digital indicator taken apart. Could be the plunger turns a little potentiometer?

[@raymuttart5484]

Excellent video pete, Thank you.

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@barrybeggs8543]

great video

[@stefanoworx]

Thanks Mr Pete, I have a sticky indicator that I was going to lubricate, but not now. So one of these days I will pull mine apart and see whats inside mine. Great series, keep it up.

[@TreeTop1947]

+stefanoworx Mr. Pete is right about not lubricating indicators, but before you pull yours apart, try spraying the stem with CRC aerosol Brake Cleaner, then while the stem is still wet with the degreaser, work it in and out. This almost always works for me. It cleans all of the foreign matter off the stem and that's the main cause of "sticky stem" syndrome. Caution, try not to get any of the degreaser on the bezel because it can make it cloudy. Hope this helps you! Treetop (retired tool & die maker)

[@jamesfeisley2810]

Awesome!

[@FarmCraft101]

Good stuff Mr Pete. Do you have a last word indicator around that you could pull apart? I think they work a little differently.

[@jackhuffman1582]

Great video. As an electrical engineer your use of the term hysteresis work for me.

[@mrpete222]

lol

[@tombellus8986]

Nice video Lyle I wonder how the digital ones work thanks

[@timturner7609]

more interesting than I expected

[@thebaron44]

Great video as usual....the glass in the bezel is called a crystal in a watch, here it may just be a glass as it would be called in a clock. The crown is a knob used to wind a watch as well as set the hands. I could not see clearly in the video the color of the jewels, they looked pinkish to me. If pinkish they would be garnet, rubies red, clear are sapphire. If you use tweezers, the screws are easy to remove or install, watchmakers hands don't work well without them either. Women worked in watch factories to assemble mostly, probably because they could pay them a lower wage........there is a non PC view that had a lighter touch and were not ham fisted as most men are. They were also used to paint watch and clock dials with ''harmless Radium''. Check out "radium girls'.

[@TheDisorderly1]

Mr Pete, Can you explain to us why the face of some indicators are clear while others seem to be yellow and yet one very old one that I have appears to be very dark colored. Is it a matter of age or how they were ordered or maybe because of some contamination? I enjoy your videos, thanks for posting them.

[@MawoDuffer]

Using a thread as a rack is an amazingly simple way to do it. The plunger is already round so I guess there’s no point in making a square rack So I understand the basic idea now. The gears make the needle move more than the plunger. But it’s the math I would need to study to figure out how they get it to be in specific increments.

[@pierresgarage2687]

As far as my use is, the dial indicator will give me a direct reliable reading to evaluate displacement from a reference point, as a test indicator will be more for lining up an or approaching a component to a set reference , as your distance grows from set point, the angle on the arm will introduce a error factor due to the angle... 3000 people at westclock, guess your eye sight is above normal in order to discern the right wife in that mass of people... lol Great inside view of a indicator.

[@wuertele]

Very informative, thank you! But I'm pretty sure ruby bearings are *not* self-lubricating.

[@rescobar8572]

I can't believe that people would down thumb you Mr. Peterson. I enjoyed the video. Or, when you begin your videos with your world famous, "Howdy"! Thanks again. On a side note, I've been wondering, can a 5C collet chuck be adapted to a 8" D1-6 backplate?

[@mrpete222]

+Rolando Escobar I really do not know. You will have to research the catalogs

[@jlbelshan]

interesting. thank you.

[@jacob_90s]

Does anyone happen to know the name of the book he refers to at the end? Try searching for it but was unable to find it

[@jaynegus4526]

I'll take the mechanical type of indicator over the digital type. I don't want to rely on a battery.

[@jerrya27]

i realy like the first one wish it was in my collection

[@aserta]

Weirdest back plate i've come across was at a parts market in UK. It was a tube machined in the back of the plate. ~3 cm OD and probably a 5 mm thick wall and about a cm deep. The plate looked like it was meant to fit a jig i suppose. Big one too, ~12 cm across. There's probably more mounting fixtures, designs out there.

[@1jtolvey]

GREAT VIDEO !! TOO LATE I ALREADY TOOK ONE APART ---- & IT (((( WORKS )))) !!! :-)

[@ollieoniel]

How do they make the pinion accurately?

[@themachinist6554]

What function is for screw clamp in last figure?

[@Miguelito63No1]

great video, excellent information, I don't remember if I ask you about BROWN AND SHARPE magnetic base, I have 2 and there are very week, any help??? Thanks

[@mrpete222]

No help,. I had one years ago and thought they were weak.

[@tuffymartinez]

Great!!!!....Don't slow down....

[@PaulSteMarie]

I can't tell for certain from the video, but I don't think that pinon in the German indicator is worn out. Looks to me like it has concave teeth to match the rack.

[@zxcvbnm6669]

These videos are awesome I just wish that someone would actually make an animation of some of these mechanisms.

[@mrpete222]

Yes

[@JunkMikesWorld]

The numbers on the inside of your European indicator are likely because the pieces were hand fitted. Notice the numbers match. Likely if you took apart an identical unit, you would find different numbers on the pieces and the internals would not be interchangeable from one movement to another. Of course this is only my best guess. All the best! Mike

[@phooesnax]

Did you get it back together?? Ok if you do not want to say.

[@Lazywatchsmith]

Great video. I have a video on my channel of me repairing a dial indicator.

[@nutwiss]

+Lazy watchsmith and a very good video it is too! Subscribed :)

[@Lazywatchsmith]

nutwiss Thank you very much!

[@johnkinnane547]

G'day Pete when your wife was working making these dials, was the company instrument makers? Kind regards John

[@grieske]

I would expect that these are cycloidal gears, since the pinion is the driven gear, and the wheel drives the next pinion. Can anybody confirm this?

[@bobjimenez4464]

I've opened up quite a few junk travel indicators and a few good quality ones. The quality is like night and day....if you see a plastic gear in there toss it into the trash.

[@samchen4585]

The Germany indicator at the first open, it should use screw thread as worm, to couple with worm wheel. But uses as gear and rack.

[@monkfry]

Regarding the employ of woman for dexterity; I've seen old photos of the Schwinn bicycle factory (in the U.S.!) and every work station has a woman brazing the frames together for the same reason. Women have done a lot more for the world than most younger people realize. As a matter of fact Margaret Hamilton led the Apollo 11 command module software team. In addition, she wrote the code listings and also coined the term "software engineer". Because of her and her team, Neil and Buzz were able to go to the moon and come back in one piece.

[@saxon215]

Where did you get your magnifier? I have a cheap and nasty head magnifier but it's almost useless. Thanks for the video

[@bkupiec]

+Spark Gap Looks like it's a Donegan OptiVisor.

[@saxon215]

+bkupiec thanks for the heads up

[@2011alhambra]

At 2:16 - 2:23, you notice the readout fluctuating . . why would the Digital Indicator be changing its measurement readout when there is not measuring anything? Perhaps the atmosphere is so thick in Mr Petes shop that it is measuring the difference in air pressure as he wiggles it about !

[@Mentorcase]

I was hoping you would show the workings of a finger gauge.

[@miguelcastaneda7236]

also ever figure why digital does not have back lighting would help

[@air54plane]

very interesting

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@MattOGormanSmith]

The crown of a watch is the winding knob. The glass is often called the crystal. Oil might be forbidden, but I'm guessing a little bit of graphite powder might be OK for lubrication. Even if it gets on the rack, a layer of graphite is much thinner than a layer of oil molecules, and it doesn't turn to glue over time.

[@johncoops6897]

Replying to a very old comment.... There is no need for lubrication - the ingress of oils and gunk via the stems is what makes them gum up.

[@stevedavey1343]

​@johncoops6897 (Replying to a relatively recent comment which replied to a very old comment! :D) Yep, if one is lucky, a bit of cleaning is all that's needed. If not so lucky, there may be wear or damage; in which case one would be advised to either save all the undamaged parts (or not, maybe that's just me bring a hoarder ;->) and buy a replacement, or get it fixed and serviced by an expert. :)

[@Patroand]

Thanks for showing. Plastic isn't plastic isn't plastic. There are thousands of what looks like plastic, but some are more resistant than steel. What is the difference between movement that can live 50 years and another one that can live 50 years. I believe it's not only the price, but sometimes precision is involve. I believe there is less vibrations with «plastic» than steel. Maybe it's the reason that they use this unknown type of material. In the Federal, did you find why the movement is sticky and if so, How did you fix it. I have several alike and would be delighted if you can give us the reason of this problem. Again, warm regards, and thanks for sharing all your ideas with us around the world.

[@mrpete222]

+Robert Patoine I just cleaned it with solvent to rid the stickiness

[@AwGusTeen]

I know that you've given the IBM book reference in other videos but I can't find it. Would you mind reposting the IBM book title here again?

[@mrpete222]

I think that book is shown in my video called tubalcanes library

[@RyanWeishalla]

Aw, was hoping you were going to show us how to the springs out and how to put it back together correctly. :-) Visited our friends up in Leland yesterday. They said they should pay you royalties for all the people that have contacted them because they've seen your videos.

[@mrpete222]

+ILGopher They gave me a little discount, but not a royalty

[@paultavres9830]

I was always taught when a gear was between two other gears it was a idler gear simply to take up space A intermediate gear is a idler gear

[@freelancergin]

came here to watch it because you said no one watched it

[@donpollard9460]

What about magnetic backs?

[@mrpete222]

Yes

[@carver3419]

Great episode ....There is no reason that the digital indicator's case should be round. That could be called a technological "culture lag" ....

[@johncoops6897]

Don't be so silly. The face bezel of a dial indicator needs to be round, so you can rotate it. The rear case is round so that the knurling on the edges of the front face can be easily gripped with the fingers to rotate it. Rotating the front face is fundamental to operation of a dial indicator.

[@KM6VV]

maybe the pinyon gear is just ground to fit the round rack, not worn.

[@arjanwilbie2511]

if someone got a metric indicator that gathers dust and want to regime it, where I live they seem to be made from unobtainium.

[@arjanwilbie2511]

rehome that is.

[@samrodian919]

That "German" dial indicator I am sure may well have been Swiss. If it was made in 1944 in Germany it would have has a Nazi eagle stamping on it somewhere most probably on dial and the back. I have never seen anything made under the Nazis that didn't have a swastika Eagle stamp on it even the timing mechanisms on bombs had them even if they were to be blown up to kingdom come! That said, the fact that it does not have made in Switzerland is quite surprising if it was made there.

[@miguelcastaneda7236]

yup always be wary who you loan one out too...murphys law

[@zxcvbnm6669]

Or I wish I knew enough that I could make animations these mechanisms

[@TheHonchoofAllSpearheads]

18:35 - 18:53 BEST PART XD

[@mikerobinson3156]

Im a firm beleiver if man made it man can fix it

[@daveticehurst4191]

Hi Lyle, very interesting video, thank you, BUT spoilt by the crappy auto focus on your camera. Is it a new camera ? I do not have too much trouble with other videos in the past. Hope you can fix it, spoils the viewing, if not I may have to stop watching your channel.

[@PeopleAlreadyDidThis]

+Dave Ticehurst Focus issues become more of a challenge at very close shooting distances, for humans OR autofocus systems, requiring much greater lens extension as well as--the bigger problem--proportionately greater *change* in extension when the shooting distance changes. The practical result is that a large focus correction is required for what seems like a small change in distance, leading to greater challenges for focus pullers in film and video manual-focus situations, and disappointing performance by autofocus systems, whose designs must include some HYSTERESIS to avoid constant focus hunting. Depth of field is also very shallow at close shooting distances, compounding the problem by requiring more frequent focus changes when the subject moves even a little. There's no wiggle room. So when Mr. Pete moves his hand 12.7mm, the close shooting distance requires a substantial focus readjustment, which the camera tends to do slowly because of the design hysteresis. We may perhaps also take it for granted that the AF sensor(s) on our consumer-grade ("crappy") cameras aren't so responsive at close distances, either; it has been my experience that they have more trouble in this regard. A potential solution is to turn off automatic focus. This is a real problem at these shooting distances because the shallow depth of field would then require Mr. Pete to hold his subject precisely in the very narrow plane of focus at all times. Almost any movement would result in uncorrected focus problems worse than what you saw here. If you can still find a manual-focus camera lens somewhere, note the focusing distances engraved on the barrel. There is very little rotation of the barrel needed between shooting distances near infinity, but the closest distances require you to really crank that helicoid. This is concrete evidence of the necessary increase in extension at close distances. If you care to experience the frustration of these phenomena for yourself, grab a manual-focus SLR and a macro lens. Go outside on a calm spring day with a tabletop tripod and a desire to photograph small wildflowers at high magnification. Set a large aperture so that you can use a high shutter speed to stop motion; the side effect of this is to eliminate your depth of field. Bummer. But you must stop motion, because you'll immediately discover that when any two air molecules collide, your flower flails around as if in a gale. You can chase it with focus, but you'll never, ever catch it. Close focusing is challenging and athletic. This is essentially the same task Mr. Pete's camera is asked to accomplish when filming the insides of dial indicators at a distance of just a few inches. The same camera, shooting the Bridgeport vise from a couple of feet, has no trouble. This is the source of your newfound difficulty with the video, and why you haven't noticed it before. I've been neck-deep in photography since I was a kid. 1968, actually. These focus issues are present in almost every KZbin video I've ever seen, including Mr. Pete's. We're used to tolerating a certain level of poor autofocus performance because that's just the way it is and we're accustomed to it. You understand why it's more pronounced in this video. We'd walk out of a theater if it occurred in a feature film, which is why they have focus pullers doing it manually. But this is KZbin....

[@j0xa1]

You can see how electronics work by taking them apart just like you can anything else. You just have to know what you're looking at.

[@johncoops6897]

You cannot see what is happening inside an IC, eh?

[@brettheller9257]

Who has enough indicators? years in manufacturing Quality as a manager and Engineer and a Product/Production Engineer and never in that 35 years did anyone hear me say the words "We have plenty/too many indicator. Now that I am retired I probably have 35 or 40 Dial, Electronic none of which are Mitutoyo. Dont get me wrong for the price and the quality of Mitutoyo they cannot be beat as long as you yourself and the employees you have using them understand they are Mitutoyo. I am not going to put a $450.00 Mahr Federal on the production floor for an $8.00 an hour off the street flunky to knock off a table or machine and never tell anyone that they did it. That tends to piss a lot of plant Managers off to including mine, CAT's, Harley Davidsons, Dana's, CAT fuel systems, Honda. That creates too much cash flow for the 3rd party containment people posted at my facility and at my customers. The only good thing in my opinion about a digital indicator or caliper, Mics, Ect is that I did not need a calculator or my phone to calculate Metric to English and all of the before mentioned companies use either only Fuc*#ng Metric or both SAE and Metric mixed. Talk about a night mare when trying to develop tools parts ETC. Yes I was also the management rep for every company I have worked for since I was about 21 years old. Started with the Old Ford Q-1 and when I and yes I said I because there is an i in TEAM. If you put a line in the bottom section of the A . (in the A holes. We had no employees with any background. This was my 1st Q1 audit and I killed it. 1 minor write up. Not tooting my own horn. If I was going to toot my horn I would have stated that I spent 8 years in the United States Marine Corps from the age of 17. My MOS's (Military Occupational Speciality was (Grunt. Learn over a130 ways to kill the enemy or anyone else without a weapon) then my 2nd 4 years was after I went to become a combat Engineer MOS 1371 Build stuff and blow it up or just blow other peoples stuff up. We used conventional explosives TNT, C4, Dynomite ETC along with improvised explosives basically anything we could get our hands on) Good times 1984-1992 USMC. Location? anywhere we were needed.

[@mimlomiani6949]

American indicators are much much better than europien or chines.